SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: CrazyT on February 20, 2013, 03:54:06 pm
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Making this thread because I found it an interesting subject but didn't wanna derail the aliens thread.
Basically, what do you guys think of the state of SEGA at the moment? I was arguing about how west for me despite how little there is, makes greater games, but I realised that this is too subjective so maybe its better to see what others think as well
My most played games of 2012 have been coincidently all western developed SEGA games. To name a few
Hell Yeah!
Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
Total war series
And most of all, spiral knights.
But that's just me. Beside those games i've played binary domain as well. Should have probably given virtua fighter the chance, but as being more focused with PC lately, I haven't been able to give it a try.
I feel like most games coming from SEGA japan just aren't that great anymore, despite me loving what the japanese industry brings a lot more. I feel like most of the stuff either doesn't deliver or only lasts for one playthrough and then you realise that you hoped for more.
For me the biggest example is the yakuza series. To be honest I expected a lot more from yakuza 5, if not only because some of nagoshi's words pre release. I just expected more of it and i'm soo convinced that the yakuza series can be so much better. I mean come on guys, despite having our preferences for series, can't we say that yakuza could have evolved a lot more in the HD era?
Radrappy and me have had a lot of arguments about PSO2, but both being great fans of the franchise I think we can both agree that the direction its chosen is a strange one. Less focussing on the experience of going through a field, instead more on cosmetics and collection. It's become such a casual experience that it hurts for someone who's loved the franchise and hoped it could have been the revival of the series after PSU. I'll let people judge when the western release is out, but if ya wanna try it out now, you'll easily find the english patch that translates nearly everything in the game.
This is just my take imo. In short i'd say that creative assembly, 3 rings(spiral knights), sumo digital(despite not being part of SEGA) are one of the best devs SEGA has at the moment.
Sonicteam, team PSO and all the other various devs from japan not so much. Fingers crossed we get a valkyria chronicles 3 release here in the west because really that's the only game that could do SEGA japan any justice for me..
Anyway what do you guys think?
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For me the biggest example is the yakuza series. To be honest I expected a lot more from yakuza 5, if not only because some of nagoshi's words pre release. I just expected more of it and i'm soo convinced that the yakuza series can be so much better. I mean come on guys, despite having our preferences for series, can't we say that yakuza could have evolved a lot more in the HD era?
Do you go by what you played in the Yakuza 5 demo or the full game? Just wondering.
I'll reply in full after THE PLAYSTATION 4 HYPE TRAIN explodes and is finished.
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Haha watching now too while typing this. Good stuff so far
Anyway I only played the demo and read various impressions at the sega forums, neogaf and youtube reviews. No one is denying it to be a great game. I just feel like the franchise is restricting itself from global praise and instead has focussed itself now to japanese mass market and their standards alone. Really the only reason why I am being critisizing about this because i'm not looking at this with the mentality of "as long I like it, i'm fine". It's that I see the wasted potential of such a powerful franchise globally succeeding. With each installment while gaming evolves, the series just starts to feel more dated. I just think it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be but their focus is simply lies elsewhere.
Having said that, I wonder if yakuza 5 will even get a western release.
Nagoshi is now promising the same thing for the next installment as I think he did for yakuza 5
http://segabits.com/blog/2013/02/12/nagoshi-discusses-the-next-yakuza-title-promises-a-more-physical-experience/
In my opinion its a nescesity for it to be true for the next installment. I don't feel much has changed from yakuza 2 to yakuza 5(some would even claim yakuza 2 to still be the best for example). Things will have to evolve eventually.
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I actually like Yakuza because it won't change to the whims of the market. It's an old-school brawler/JRPG and I love it because of that.
Too bad I'll probabyl have to play Yakuza 5 in Nipponese and try to keep up with internat fan translations.
But yeah, overall, Sega still makes a lot of the games I like. Yakuza, Virtua Fighter, Total War, but I really have no love or interest left in stuff like Sonic, and of course stuff like Colonial Marines.
If they were publishing Bayonetta 2 that would be another feather in their cap, but...yeah.
Basically I keep up with them for the few franchises I still like from them, but whenever they announce a new game now I'm only waiting to make a joke about cell-phones rather than actually giving a fuck anymore.
I still admire their old games very much though.
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Anyway I only played the demo and read various impressions at the sega forums, neogaf and youtube reviews. No one is denying it to be a great game. I just feel like the franchise is restricting itself from global praise and instead has focussed itself now to japanese mass market and their standards alone. Really the only reason why I am being critisizing about this because i'm not looking at this with the mentality of "as long I like it, i'm fine". It's that I see the wasted potential of such a powerful franchise globally succeeding.
Well Yakuza is a very Japanese title, regardless it was always going to aim at them, rightly or wrongly, on the only market that supports the title. Though like MadeManG, I do not see the title as an action adventure title but more of a JRPG brawler. These are anarchic genres but its the last of a once successful genre, if they want to try to do something a bit more modern I say they should just make a brand new series. If they want to go for a global audience, why jeopardise what they have built in Yakuza and aim for the dollars?
Though after seeing that Playstation 4 presentation, it seems SEGA's Japanese teams are going to be left further in the dust. I really just do not see how they are going to be able to sustain themselves with spiralling budgets on consoles when they can focus on one market alone. I mean they still make games I love from both West and East, but I just do not see how they can push themselves onto the next generation of consoles and realistically seeing them forced on handheld and mobile titles.
So basically on the same boat as Mang.
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The lack of games from most of SEGA's Japanese development teams is reminding me of Konami for some reason.
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I love Western Segas games... But not always their attitude.
Creative Assembly are going to be huge next gen... Love Total War, Can't freakin wait for War Hammer Total War or their next gen Aliens game. REALLY want a spiritual sequel to Viking...
Super excited that they have Relic now too... CoH is ace.
Also, if Sonic Team can keep the upwards trend in Sonic games I'm super excited for the next Sonic game. Generations and Colours were awesome.
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Hey look, its a ghost. Oh, nah, its a shark.
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I'm back... and if nobody else dies... I'll be back for longer.
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Personally I'm pretty impressed with Sega over the past few years. The fact is, for me, they are putting out too many games I'm interested in and I can't keep up. The digital reissues are stellar, and their major boxed games have all intrigued me over the past couple/few years. But I don't have the time for it all. Granted, I've got a baby now, so that can't be denied is a primary factor. Also, I've begun seriously collecting all their prior systems, so I am focusing a lot on their older games too. Nevertheless, they've been releasing high quality new games consistently for quite some time now. I think their move to increase their share of the RTS market is quite good, even though it's not a genre I'm personally interested in.
However, like most of you, I would agree their marketing team is a disaster squad. They will yank victory from the jaws of defeat ten times out of ten.
But as for all the moaning that they're a shadow of their former self, etc., I think that's a bit of nostalgia-tinged nonsense. Just my personal opinion. Sega's doing quite well, especially in these gloomy economic times, and I think they still have room to improve if they can get another big hit franchise going.
I am starting to worry about Yakuza 5 making it over here, though.
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I think the problem with the Yakuza series from a business perspective is that the Japanese Audience won't evolve in terms of mentality for new mechanics, which is why their market is somewhat shrinking from fatigue of the same tired franchises in the space of a few years (Yakuza being the exception due to only releasing 5 PS3 titles, two of them spin-offs).
I think if the Japanese market adapted so that the more modern approach with all of their genres from JRPG to platformers weren't so stiff they'd be seeing the benefits in the west too.
Capcom don't seem to have learned from their Resident Evil system of making more CGIs then the last game or outsourcing DmC to a British Dev (Yes, I am British also, but it's not right) to cater to the West when they should just try to take it to the next level.
SEGA's current problem is that they don't know how to make an international steady seller these days. Other then Sonic, Super Monkey Ball was their last "big" western seller that was created by a Japanese Development team. I think Valkyria Chronicles was a great idea but unfortunately for SEGA of Japan, they didn't see the sales nor the interest so it was relegated into an Anime PSP franchise instead.
I think even Nintendo are struggling because it seems that throwing Mario at it works more then anything else (well...Pokemon) but are stumped when they noticed that NSMBU wasn't enough.
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I really don't understand the viewpoint of sega producing shit games when they've recently been releasing very good stuff. Just because ACM hasn't worked out we've had certain individuals in this forum trying to extend one crap title as being the signal of Sega being rubbish overall or rewriting history over BINARY DOMAIN being a disappointing experience to the Sega masses.
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I think its a shame that the community team gets shit that really should be directed at the marketing team. At least, where I work our community people are part of marketing however they have very little to no control over marketing's decisions.
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Shame, real shame. I wouldn't blame the community peeps for anything that the corporate side does or don't do. Its not like that these guys are in charge of multimillion budgets.But its the only way some people feel that they can vent their anger since you guys are the first line of defense as it were.
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I'd actually like to know who heads up SEGA West or SEGA of America's marketing department. Is it a position held in Europe that extends to America? Or does America have a dedicated advertising team?
If it's the former, then I can see why marketing suffers in the US. Never a good plan to have somebody working out-of-country. If it's an American team working under somebody who is working remotely from Europe, again a bad plan. But if its a dedicated American marketing team who is interntal, they need to get their shit together.
I wonder, though, if SEGA West actually farms out the marketing work to PR teams? I don't want to reveal too much, but when SoA reached out to us for the All-Stars Racing Transformed reveal, it was an external marketing firm that reached out and handled the event, with SoA community people present. But it seems the event itself was put together by an external firm.
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I'm back... and if nobody else dies... I'll be back for longer.
Welcome back Sharky. KUDOS!
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honestly the optimistic me.
but realistically and my own opinion. im losing sega spirit. the mast time i really really really enjoyed a sega game was resonance of fate.
and thats long ago. the games of nowadays dont feel ike sega is supposed to be in my view.
i sense a comercialised company. which is ok. but not in terms of following the masses to create many clones of third person view games.
i think the state of sega in economics is ok and well stable. but ofcourse mistakes are not to be made
i think sega in making games lost spirit badly
the real sega died in euthanasia long time ago. and it was kept alive trough the name sega. but there is no permanent sonic team or am2 no mo
there are companys working for sega for certain amount of time such as sumo and gearboxshit
sega of europe died in euthanasia. usa and japan still lives on with a terrible pacemaker. the economis got better and better
games worse.
so even tho it is getting better at sega. i think there will be one sudden death for them
and now im frankly honest.
ofcourse i hope im wrong. but i wont take back that sega has o.d. on us in europe.
it just isnt seg anymore
szeriously sonic made by sumo. all respect cause the game beat all kart games ever and even attrected people who never were ineressted in those kind of games
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the mast time i really really really enjoyed a sega game was resonance of fate.
and thats long ago.
Not a Sega game. Tri-Ace developed.
I think it's time we all start realizing that game publishers and developers are not the same thing. Sega had nothing (creatively) to do with RoF.
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^Resonance of fate was fantastic I agree. Dunno why we shouldn't be able to look at published games as SEGA games. I'm sure resonance of fate is used as a SEGA IP in that projext X game for the 3DS.
Well Yakuza is a very Japanese title, regardless it was always going to aim at them, rightly or wrongly, on the only market that supports the title. Though like MadeManG, I do not see the title as an action adventure title but more of a JRPG brawler. These are anarchic genres but its the last of a once successful genre, if they want to try to do something a bit more modern I say they should just make a brand new series. If they want to go for a global audience, why jeopardise what they have built in Yakuza and aim for the dollars?
I don't mean it in the sense of focussing on the dollars. The dollars will come themselves once the quality is there. I get your and mademangs point because I like that part too, but that's the thing, we apreciate the series for what it is now. Others would need convincing, and just like many games from japan, a lot of the stuff feels dated to people that would love to get into the series for the amazing story, but then feel like the combat isn't very fun. I've been starting to notice myself less liking that part with each installment. I know the game has been this way since yakuza 1, but the brawling just feels kind of mindless sometimes. It'd be cool if like every move had its merits in a future installment. I feel like the game doesn't encourage me to use a lot of the moves I unlock. Most of the game can be completed by using avoid and the most powerful square triangle move and then whatevr heat move you think looks awesome. It doesn't feel rewarding and I like it when a game subtly forces you and rewards you to do that, either by difficulty or because certain tactics dont work for a certain type of enemies.
Though after seeing that Playstation 4 presentation, it seems SEGA's Japanese teams are going to be left further in the dust. I really just do not see how they are going to be able to sustain themselves with spiralling budgets on consoles when they can focus on one market alone. I mean they still make games I love from both West and East, but I just do not see how they can push themselves onto the next generation of consoles and realistically seeing them forced on handheld and mobile titles.
So basically on the same boat as Mang.
Yeah it would suck if the yakuza series had to go through that path. But i'm quite sure it'll be PS4 if the PS4 does well. Otherwise it would seem unlikely for the series to go vita. Wonder if making a game outside of sony would ever be an option....?
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RESONANCE OF FATE isn't a published game, its a second party game. Sega commisoned and help fund the project as well as own the IP and characters, therefore its a Sega game be it via a second party one. Published games are titles carried by Sega but are completly owned by the developers/company who made the game. HELL YEAH,CONDUIT falls into that catergory.
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Resonance of Fate characters appear in Project X Zone representing SEGA alongside Ulala, Bruno Delinger and others
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I know ROJM has a thing for arguing with me now, simply because I don't agree with him, but don't let your desire to prove me wrong overwhelm your reason.
Look at the credits to Resonance of Fate.
Written by Masaki Norimoto (FOUNDER of Tri-Ace, orginal creator of Star Ocean)
Directed by Takayuki Suguro (Long employed game developer at Tri-Ace)
They also used a proprietary Tri-Ace engine.
The most important people to the vision and creation of a game are its Director and Writer. Neither of these people work at Sega.
Simply because Sega gave them money and said "We'll pay for you to make an RPG that we can put our logo on" does not mean it's a Sega game.
They may own the rights to the characters, etc. but they in no way "made" that game.
A little research goes a long way instead of just saying "Arcticsea posted something?! Well I'll show him."
You only want it to be a Sega game because it's a good game and shines a good light on your floundering favorite company. Don't bend the facts just to suit your wishes.
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Oh boy... we're getting into the is it/isn't it a SEGA game argument.
I might make a card game where players are shown a franchise and players yell out "SEGA" or "NOT SEGA", and if all players agree, they progress to the next round. If they disagree, they wrestle on the floor until the losing player yells "Yuji Naka!", then they move on to the next card (while not actually deciding if the disputed franchise was or wasn't SEGA).
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It gets me friggin confusing as well. So a dev team has to be bought and owned by SEGA for it to be considered a SEGA game? Resonance of fate is now a SEGA IP just as much Sonic is their IP. In sonic's case they can pick whoever and it will be considered a SEGA game by anyone. Shouldn't it be similar to any other SEGA IP? I mean is DmC not a capcom game either because ninja theory developed all of it?
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Personally, if I see a SEGA logo on the box, it's a SEGA game. However I also clarify things with a tier system:
1 - Internally developed and SEGA owned and published
2 - Externally developed and SEGA owned and published
3 - Externally developed and developer owned and SEGA published
Things can also get even more detailed when you factor in specifics like the exact point SEGA got involved (tiers 2&3) and how much internal SEGA staff assisted in development. Sonic, for example, is that first tier. Bayonetta is second tier (and the game itself was SEGA influenced and some SEGA staff assisted in development). Jack Lumber is third tier, as it was already developed and the dev owns the game, SEGA just published it.
Of course there are always going to be special cases, like ASRT and Sonic 4, where it was externally developed but it deals with a SEGA license. In that case it could be considered both tier 1 and tier 2 (1.5?).
Resonance of Fate would be a second tier title, same goes for Ecco and Toe Jam & Earl. Right?
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If it's Sega property, it's a Sega game.
Sonic Battle doesn't say Sega on the box, but Sega owns Sonic. Sega game.
Aliens Colonial Marines says Sega on the box, but Sega didn't invent Aliens. Sega-published game.
Adding to this, if a game is internally developed by Sega, obvious it's a Sega game. (imagine AM2 made Aliens)
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See I just disagree then.
I don't see Sega as a name on a box. I see Sega (or any company) as individual people employed by that company.
If a product is not imagined, written, and developed by someone, how can you say it is their product? Simply because they sell it? Makes no sense.
RoF is a Tri-Ace game.
Also I should say I don't care about who developed this game. It was a great game. The point is I don't like people seeing my screen name and suddenly acquiring a target. Just because I don't agree with something someone said in a different thread shouldn't make every post I make a springboard to an argument.
Some people on here are definitely wearing beer-goggles when it comes to all things Sega. That's my main point.
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Not a Sega game. Tri-Ace developed.
I think it's time we all start realizing that game publishers and developers are not the same thing. Sega had nothing (creatively) to do with RoF.
it did give me the seg spirit feeling. i could swer its a sega game
roJM second me i see
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See I just disagree then.
I don't see Sega as a name on a box. I see Sega (or any company) as individual people employed by that company.
If a product is not imagined, written, and developed by someone, how can you say it is their product? Simply because they sell it? Makes no sense.
RoF is a Tri-Ace game.
Also I should say I don't care about who developed this game. It was a great game. The point is I don't like people seeing my screen name and suddenly acquiring a target. Just because I don't agree with something someone said in a different thread shouldn't make every post I make a springboard to an argument.
Some people on here are definitely wearing beer-goggles when it comes to all things Sega. That's my main point.
yeah i ubderstand your view. its like a supermarket havin vegetables. they just bought it to sell ir more expensive and make profit out of it. but they will never be the farmer
if the farmer sells it and makes the crops it gives more sense to the vegetables.
i feel u
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I love you Semmie.
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So SEGA is now a supermarket? Damnit this fanbase is lost, lost i tell you!
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Seriously though. It's depressing when you look at it that way. SEGA inhouse has been doing so very little lately. Each year it becomes less.
SOJ really gotta up its game. I think it's not just the marketings fault why most of their games don't succeed here in the west. I mean Valkyria chronicles the 1st did do well after all. But then they played it safe going PSP, probably because of development cost? Binary Domain was great, but I feel like they gave up too soon with it. It takes time to build up a new IP. The first BD wasnt enough to convince the masses but if they made an improved sequel that scored 9's things could have changed.
I get SEGA can't take risks anymore, but let them at least recognize quality and push that when they would ever take a risk. It's sad because Binary Domain had so much potential as a franchise. I really hope they make a sequel.
That said, I believe in the next sonic game. I will always believe....
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Seriously though. It's depressing when you look at it that way. SEGA inhouse has been doing so very little lately. Each year it becomes less.
SOJ really gotta stop up its game. I think it's not just the marketings fault why most of their games don't succeed here in the west. I mean Valkyria chronicles the 1st did do well after all. But then they played it safe going PSP, probably because of development cost? Binary Domain was great, but I feel like they gave up too soon with it. It takes time to build up a new IP. The first BD wasnt enough to convince the masses but if they made an improved sequel that scored 9's things could have changed.
I get SEGA can't take risks anymore, but let them at least recognize quality and push that when they would ever take a risk. It's sad because Binary Domain had so much potential as a franchise. I really hope they make a sequel.
That said, I believe in the next sonic game. I will always believe....
Yeah, well. Much of my optimism towards sega was riding on the quality of PSO2(Im embarrassed at how much money I sank getting a computer ready for it. I even bought Windows dammit). Honestly I dont even think they should release it here because people are just going to hate it and it's going to have wretched support anyway.
Don't let me down new sonic game! You're really all I have left.
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Same here. I felt like SEGA was making a comecback with PSO2 and those trailers really convinced me. But you couldn't get out of the trailers what kind of game it really ended up being. It was unexpected. They just had to turn the game into some kind of businessmodel sigh. It works in japan, but i don't think its gonna work here in the west. I agree
After the last nerf they did just recently, I gave up and said just said screw it. At this point its an average game with 1/2 or good elements, but that's it for me. Another Japanese and apealing franchise screwed up. In PSO's case i really think it was to apeal towards the casuals. It's like focussing on this group came as priority above making a great game. Their loss i guess
Strangely enough i'm mostly looking forward to hear confirmation about a shenmue or skies of arcadia HD ports. Other than that, a good... i mean great sonic game could make up for everything
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RESONANCE OF FATE isn't a published game, its a second party game. Sega commisoned and help fund the project as well as own the IP and characters, therefore its a Sega game be it via a second party one. Published games are titles carried by Sega but are completly owned by the developers/company who made the game. HELL YEAH,CONDUIT falls into that catergory.
Huh, I thought SEGA owned Hell Yeah! Didn't they just release an iOS game?
Anyway, yeah, Resonance of Fate is a SEGA game. It's a SEGA owned IP, represents SEGA in Project X Zone, and with SEGA owning the IP and being the publisher, they DID have creative input, like any publisher does.
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The game had some great character customization. With a lot of SEGA related clothing and nods to its franchises. I really liked that game. I remember it going against ff13 releasing during the same month, but it was clearly the better game.
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As for resonance of fate. Look at the credits and look up the people who made the game. Not sega. Last ill say on it.
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What is wrong with PSO2?
I haven't been playing it cause I can't stand playing it in Japanese but I thought it was a really fun game from what I played of it. Can't wait to play it in English.
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As for resonance of fate. Look at the credits and look up the people who made the game. Not sega. Last ill say on it.
I'm not sure why there is such a strong "against" for wether Resonance of Fate is/isn't a SEGA game. Like I and others have said, they own the IP, they published it, they put money into it, the franchise appears in Project X Zone representing SEGA, the game crossed over into other SEGA properties (PSO2, Samurai and Dragons).
I know you've said your last on the matter, but I took your advice and looked at the credits:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfetDCrSNcs
At 2:17 SEGA SAMMY VISUAL ENTERTAINMENT INC aka Marza appears. So in this case, SEGA did all the pre-rendered cutscenes.
But I guess this is just one of those cases where somebody won't back down, saying it can only be a SEGA game if it is 100% internally developed, which I and others disagree with. Oh well.
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I don't mean it in the sense of focussing on the dollars. The dollars will come themselves once the quality is there. I get your and mademangs point because I like that part too, but that's the thing, we apreciate the series for what it is now. Others would need convincing, and just like many games from japan, a lot of the stuff feels dated to people that would love to get into the series for the amazing story, but then feel like the combat isn't very fun. I've been starting to notice myself less liking that part with each installment. I know the game has been this way since yakuza 1, but the brawling just feels kind of mindless sometimes. It'd be cool if like every move had its merits in a future installment. I feel like the game doesn't encourage me to use a lot of the moves I unlock. Most of the game can be completed by using avoid and the most powerful square triangle move and then whatevr heat move you think looks awesome. It doesn't feel rewarding and I like it when a game subtly forces you and rewards you to do that, either by difficulty or because certain tactics dont work for a certain type of enemies.
The brawling is mindless, but why this obsession I see from most gamers to try and make combat deep and complex. I loved the Batman Arkham series because the gameplay was simple and quick but still pretty fun.
If you want to play a game with a deep engine, you play an action character game. This would be like asking for a deep combat engine in Streets of Rage, or Shinobi. Yakuza just is not that and I hope SEGA never makes it that.
Seriously though. It's depressing when you look at it that way. SEGA inhouse has been doing so very little lately. Each year it becomes less.
It was actually the opposite last year. Their inhouse productions were probably busiest between 2011 - 2012 since they went third party.
You only want it to be a Sega game because it's a good game and shines a good light on your floundering favorite company. Don't bend the facts just to suit your wishes.
Hell no, I absolutely hate that title and wished SEGA never funded it but sadly they did fund it and it belongs to SEGA. It to me is a subpar product and hope SEGA never make a sequel to that series. But sadly like Golden Axe: Beast Rider, like the Tony Taka influenced Shining, it is a SEGA game.
Besides its not like the game was universally liked either.
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i like to think with sega heritage it give people a chance to experience the games on sega consoles no one played . Problem is sega consoles never took off in america ,not like here in europe. Nintendo had a foothold in america and it was hard to sega getting in but they gave it a right go with the genesis/megadrive.
i seen the benefits sega focusing on digital since with consoles these days its super expensive and during the recession we are in globally you either play it safe or be lucky that your ip catches on and unless its a shooter its tough.
i like to think digitally sega could and should bring out their classics like a new streets of rage. they have already a fanbase who have being wanting a pleading for a new Sor game for years. They only have to look at double dragon that came out by wayforward which was successful and people bought and love it. i firmly believe this would work for sega and i be much happier sega doing this.
it be a waste for sega to bring out their heritage collection just to be like the athlete who won all the trophies in his prime and re live the past and show off what he once was.
it makes sense what they are doing as much as i hate it , the market has changed. i hope sega brings back their old games digitally and instead of tasing their fanbase what they were once were, show us who you still are.
and.........Shenmue 3 :)
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What is wrong with PSO2?
I haven't been playing it cause I can't stand playing it in Japanese but I thought it was a really fun game from what I played of it. Can't wait to play it in English.
well, obviously it's a personal preference. For example CT and I agree that the game is junk, but for very different reasons. He really is disturbed by how easy the enemies are and how casual friendly the game is, which is true. It doesn't matter how much the combat is like Devil May Cry if what you're juggling barely puts up a fight. The game is engineered for the F2P model and it shows. And that includes a certain degree of accessibility that quite frankly results in a sheen of blandness.
My major issues with the game stem from the fact that if you had released it as a boxed title for 60$ it would be an absolute fucking travesty. The levels are pitifully bland, art direction and music forgettable, story nonexistent(although what is there is somewhat embarrassing if you've taken the time to read through translations), and the game never feels like an adventure like PSO1 did (yes yes, rose tinted glasses etc). Simply put, this game is going to be ripped from mouth to anus if it is ever reviewed by western critics. They made a sustainable F2P money making model first, a fun game second.
That's not to say it's universally loathed. Our own Ezo enjoys the game as do countless others on PSOW.
If you want to play a game with a deep engine, you play an action character game. This would be like asking for a deep combat engine in Streets of Rage, or Shinobi. Yakuza just is not that and I hope SEGA never makes it that.
A parry button couldn't hurt though. Arkham City and Sleeping Dogs both used it to great effect and it adds JUST enough player interaction to modernize combat and make a bit more satisfying.
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A parry button couldn't hurt though. Arkham City and Sleeping Dogs both used it to great effect and it adds JUST enough player interaction to modernize combat and make a bit more satisfying.
There's been a parry move since the second Yakuza title.
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There's been a parry move since the second Yakuza title.
then what's wrong with the combat? I've only played the first one.
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Well, PSO the original wasn't that hard either. The enemies weren't advance AI and their patterns where repeated over and over again.
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Well, PSO the original wasn't that hard either. The enemies weren't advance AI and their patterns where repeated over and over again.
yes but your capabilities were far more equal to theirs.
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About yakuza. It would be like for example having a drift mechanic in a racing game that either doesnt make you faster or even slows you down, so it ends up being there for no reason other than lulz
It doesnt have to be deep. The thing with sor or most beat em ups is that u go from beginning to end of lvl with only 2/3 moves you have. Regular attacks, jump attacks and the special move. The levels you go through feel like the game and AI has been built around those set of moves so yer using them all when nescesary. Yakuza has a great amount of moves that feel like they dont have to be there but also have potential actually to make the experience better if the game would be built with them in mind. If not i'd rather have fewer set of moves and the game feel and AI to be built around those. I think if nagoshi says that he wants to do something abou the fighting mechanic, he should start looking there. My other issue was the stiff and clunkyness which has been greatly imrpoved in Yakuza 5.
About PSO. I agree that theres more wrong with the game than just difficulty. Though the one thing t does right ima give props to which is its theme. PSO feel has been captured well despite it not having great looking levels, u will instantly feel like yer in PSO from the first moment you get in. Then u find out about the amazing fighting mechanic, and then u find out how theres no real purpose of playing so u start wondering what the hell you are doing every time you play. The game is weird i dont think its describable. We really have to wait for the english release, play together(yay for a SEGAbits team) and then we'll see how many will stay interested
@rappy
Id say the majority of pso world is starting to feel the same way now. Their mentality seems to e more like, i know its bad, but i simply enjoy being there. I guess the whole community aspect plays a big role for most of them.
PS: sorry for my spell and grammar lazyiness. Correcting sux on mobile
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aint no internet grammar gangsta over here anyways ;)
being the sega fan that i am. i have changed a lot since sega has become like this
for the 100 procent i will not buy a next gen. no ps4 no wii u what so ever. aint gonna buy psvita as well.
my policy has changed drastically and i am destined to live this life on the handheld 3ds
at this moment i have ps3 and 3ds speaking of a recent console doing its time.
i even decided to jailbreak mly ps3 the other week cause all the games seriously suck except for some exceptions. and sega unfortunate many games suck more then the sucked ones. so however im still a huge sega fan for the optimistic person that i am. but if there is no new sega console i swear i wont buy one neither. ill stick it to handhelds for the rest of my life. its cheaper handier and nicer.
now that i have shwed my point ill go back to the state that crazy tails have mentiones.
sega has become the most illogical company when it is about games.
good games don come out wont get a seq prequel. bad games come out and dissapear in oblivion.
viking battle of asgard was good. they should advance it. resonance of faith was really good. no attention given to it afterwards???????
nd the foreost issue of sega is that it really doesnt communicate with us like sony nintendo xbox does. nintendo is the number 1 on this they even do market research in close up. and they dont neccesary be the gamers we like. but they at least found their category of gamers.
sega found us looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago
but they are not good in having a relationship with us.
the state of sega games is wors
and dont cry baby if u dont like yakuza 5 after all
and dont cry about yakuza hd. its still yak1 and 2 but in hd( a re release)
which i mentioned to be a disease that will pay sega negative
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Thing is where does Sega pour money in now? Before they put lots of money into Platinum Games and having them took off, and also Tri-Ace's project. Even if RoF is not a Sega made game it's still along with P* stuff and the Yakuza translations, kind of Sega's way and line-up this Generation in bringing "old-school" Japanese games as apposed to Konami, Square, Bandai and Capcom, who either put Money into Western developers alot, or extremly westernized it. Now Capcom is hiring more for In-house for Next-Gen.
We already heard that Creative Assenmbly get a bigger budget now. Will Sonic now too? (I would like that)
They gotta be up to something. Now that I think about it, most companies don't have anything announced for the later half of 2012...
Speaking of PSO2 tough. Anyone else think that the Shining Force Cross game actually looks more fun? Never been huge on PSO tough. The Arcade Shining game kinda reminds of a constant Kingdom Hearts Gauntlet.
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I'm not sure why there is such a strong "against" for wether Resonance of Fate is/isn't a SEGA game. Like I and others have said, they own the IP, they published it, they put money into it, the franchise appears in Project X Zone representing SEGA, the game crossed over into other SEGA properties (PSO2, Samurai and Dragons).
But I guess this is just one of those cases where somebody won't back down, saying it can only be a SEGA game if it is 100% internally developed, which I and others disagree with. Oh well.
I felt like Resonance of Fate is one of SEGA's under-appreciated franchises...it had a Western Dystopian Steampunk mindset to it but Vashyron was basically some fanservice the Japanese loved (so did I actually, but I liked all three of the characters).
Overall, I think it was mostly a SEGA idea but of course, Neverland is Tri-Ace's reference to their games having a super hard dungeon called "Neverland", in RoF's case, it was an abandoned Amusement Park. (I beat the game 100% and thought it was one of the best dungeons in any game ever!)
Too bad it won't get a sequel...and yeah, I sold mine as I did everything possible in the game to not play it ever again...but I wouldn't mind a sequel.
Oh and about 2013, we're only two months into this year...so we are best waiting until June to see if anything major is on the horizon. E3 perhaps?
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I felt like Resonance of Fate is one of SEGA's under-appreciated franchises...it had a Western Dystopian Steampunk mindset to it but Vashyron was basically some fanservice the Japanese loved (so did I actually, but I liked all three of the characters).
Overall, I think it was mostly a SEGA idea but of course, Neverland is Tri-Ace's reference to their games having a super hard dungeon called "Neverland", in RoF's case, it was an abandoned Amusement Park. (I beat the game 100% and thought it was one of the best dungeons in any game ever!)
Too bad it won't get a sequel...and yeah, I sold mine as I did everything possible in the game to not play it ever again...but I wouldn't mind a sequel.
Oh and about 2013, we're only two months into this year...so we are best waiting until June to see if anything major is on the horizon. E3 perhaps?
when u say that i kinda have a wishful thought : new sega console
why do i say that? look at the stockings at 4trade updated by the minute. only profit after profit so far. and all we know for now are that there will be sonic games
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I know ROJM has a thing for arguing with me now, simply because I don't agree with him, but don't let your desire to prove me wrong overwhelm your reason.
Look at the credits to Resonance of Fate.
Written by Masaki Norimoto (FOUNDER of Tri-Ace, orginal creator of Star Ocean)
Directed by Takayuki Suguro (Long employed game developer at Tri-Ace)
They also used a proprietary Tri-Ace engine.
The most important people to the vision and creation of a game are its Director and Writer. Neither of these people work at Sega.
Simply because Sega gave them money and said "We'll pay for you to make an RPG that we can put our logo on" does not mean it's a Sega game.
They may own the rights to the characters, etc. but they in no way "made" that game.
A little research goes a long way instead of just saying "Arcticsea posted something?! Well I'll show him."
You only want it to be a Sega game because it's a good game and shines a good light on your floundering favorite company. Don't bend the facts just to suit your wishes.
Then you haven't done any in depth research then which means you are officially an idiot.
Never mind the fact that a definition of a Sega game has changed over the decades that this company has been in existence. At one point, Sega never made any of their own games. At one point, Sega games use to be anglo american games made in Japan. Now its japanese games from Japan. In the future who knows? Point is the Sega name as determined by the games were different during each decade/era.
RoF is a Sega second party game. I made that definition quite clearly. Why? Because it fits the criteria of a second party title. Sega hiring a studio outside of their own inhouse development to create a game for them.
Now how do they pay for this? Using money paid for by Sega. Sega's money/resources being used to create the title. What is the result? The game and the code of the game and the characters of the game belong to Sega. Does this mean Tri Ace can create a new game using the same engine? Most likely but only similar and not exact. They can't however call it RoF or END OF ETERNITY or use any of the characters, concepts etc. Sega funds was used to create the game. Therefore its a Sega game be it from a second party source.
This isn't a new thing since Sega has been doing this for over 20 years. Sega has a long tradition in second party titles and they are just as Sega as the titles coming from SOJ.
Published titles as i've stated as Barry has mentioned and numerous people are titles that Sega DON'T own but are acting on that studio's/publisher's behalf for whatever reason. They take on the responsibilities that those companies wouldn't necessary do for some reason.
Now Im getting sick and tired of these Segafakers coming into this forum and dictating to older members how the company works, what they supposed to be about, or making out that everything they do is crap. It's obvious that this goof hasn't a clue. Just because you played a couple of sega games on some shoddy emulator doesn't make you one of us. Unless you suffered for your art of being a fan of this company then you'd at least understand but obviously you couldn't have judging from you're banal comments. Now we know you hate sega, so shut up and be quiet. Don't think you can make a name for yourself by taking me on. Many have tried and failed. You got something constructive to say fair enough, BUT so far all i've seen you do is make grand generalizations and statements about sega that are completely wrong. At least a monkey can learn from its mistakes, obviously you cannot.
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Personally, if I see a SEGA logo on the box, it's a SEGA game. However I also clarify things with a tier system:
1 - Internally developed and SEGA owned and published
2 - Externally developed and SEGA owned and published
3 - Externally developed and developer owned and SEGA published
Things can also get even more detailed when you factor in specifics like the exact point SEGA got involved (tiers 2&3) and how much internal SEGA staff assisted in development. Sonic, for example, is that first tier. Bayonetta is second tier (and the game itself was SEGA influenced and some SEGA staff assisted in development). Jack Lumber is third tier, as it was already developed and the dev owns the game, SEGA just published it.
Of course there are always going to be special cases, like ASRT and Sonic 4, where it was externally developed but it deals with a SEGA license. In that case it could be considered both tier 1 and tier 2 (1.5?).
Resonance of Fate would be a second tier title, same goes for Ecco and Toe Jam & Earl. Right?
Yes totally correct but technically TJ and E and ECCO usually goes into the western division subsidiary banner. That's when it gets confusing. Especially with TJ and E because Sega doesn't fully own the IP.
Like i said before in another topic, Sega the third party is still acting like Sega the console manufacturer. I like BAYONETTA and games of its ilk. I like some of the western titles from Sega. I think they complement the SOJ titles well so as a consumer I'm given a variety of choice from the same company. But the problem is there isn't a need for Sega to use second parties anymore or at least in a larger scale. To some degree it isn't necessary to use western dev/outside sources anymore either. Sega is a third party now and they need to really start reminding the video game consumer and bring to their attention what they, being Sega of japan can do and the type of games that they can produce. That's effectively what's been missing to be honest since their journey into third party began. I understand internally and marketwise they have had problems that affected what they wanted to do during the last gen but during this gen of systems, there has been a handful of original games from Sega that they've made even playable without having to be a japanese school girl or kid to enjoy them. What does it say that the biggest thing from Sega was the whole platinum games announcement that excited everyone or even the ALIENS initial announcement yet the two best original titles from SOJ not only didn't get that press coverage from Sega but didn't do great in the market(VALKYRIA and BD.) I don't think Sega should act like any other company but they do one thing that capcom and konami do and that's to start producing a whole lot more games from their first source of developers instead of relying on others. Be they AAA, AA or B level. So people can see the difference and what Sega in its internal divisions is about. If anything the second party and western developer thing hasn't worked in the long run. Now they should approach it differently, sadly it doesn't seem that they will though.
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ROJM you have got to stop with the personal attacks. If you disagree with somebody, fine. Lay out why you think they're wrong. But you have got to stop sprinkling in insults like calling people "idiot" and labeling people as younger fans who know less than you. Its just insulting and hurts your own arguments in the end.
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ROJM you have got to stop with the personal attacks. If you disagree with somebody, fine. Lay out why you think they're wrong. But you have got to stop sprinkling in insults like calling people "idiot" and labeling people as younger fans who know less than you. Its just insulting and hurts your own arguments in the end.
He insulted me first. If he can't handle it, he shouldn't start it. As far as i'm concerned he's both and that's really because of what he has said so far. If someone pours scorn over the fact that they are called supporters of sega or whatever you really have to question why they are coming here in the first place. I particularly don't need to be "called out" when i didn't even address him originally in the first place. But duly noted. I'll stop for the moment. Just make sure that he does the same.
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Thanks for obliging. And that goes without saying that nobody should be insulting anybody on either side. I'd lock both this topic and the Aliens one, but I'm going to trust you guys in dropping the arguments.
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Thank you, it is a good topic from reading the other comments posted so far. No need for me or arc to ruin it by getting it locked.
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its on my lips and hips
while i eat spare ribs
rather kiss that golden axe beast rider girl on her lips
^^
so uhm the state of sega huh.
economically its really really good
gaming quality either very good
or very bad
you wont find an in between average game. i thought anarchy was average
its actually lame
i enjoyed aliens untill it semic bricked my ps3
actually i felt sega at best when they had their consoles.
the only game complain i had back in the days was that hidden and dangerous simulation full of bugs. but those bugs and glitches of hidden and dangerous were on pc as well. so no sega complain there
i just cant believe this will always go good.
sega makes really good games. but also very bad ones
and people in these days dont like to gamble their money. they wanna make sure a game is good
so what happens? people be like yo sega good games but it might be like that bad game i bought last time
so again. sega will either have to make this year good. otherwise i fear a sudden death. regardless all that i say. sega always makes profit see the 4trade website updated by the minute
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Dude, ROJM, man. Relax.
I'm not gonna argue with you man. Sorry for being so argumentative in the first place. Seriously.
Just let me say a couple things real quick.
I love Sega. Admittedly I think they're currently on a bad track. That's all. That doesn't make me a prick.
And also, I'm not some "new member" which you obviously have a pet peeve about. I don't need to talk about how long I've been playing Sega games and following the company's moves, it's been a seriously long time, but that's not the point.
Suffice it to say I was a writer on Seganerds.com for more than a year and was in the podcasts with Graham and Chris and George and all that shit. I go way back. I saw the writing on the wall with SegaNerds and kind of bailed before George did, but I liked all those dudes a lot and had a great time writing for them while it lasted, before we had a very small falling out about the direction of the site.
I'm not tooting a horn here or anything. If anything I feel bad about the way that site ended and would be hesitant to bring it up. But I'm just saying, I've invested a lot of personal time and energy and money and emotion into following, reporting on, and yes, "supporting" Sega.
I'm with you on a lot of things. But when we disagree don't be so self-righteous man! We're here for the same reasons and I'm honestly sorry if I pissed you off.
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Point taken, start again.
To me there has been one particular trend. Anticipation for a Sega game versus the final result. Sega has the anticipation factor down pat, a lot of people were excited about some of the deals and games that they announced during this current gen. The problem is for whatever reason it doesn't translate to sales or great sales. MADWORLD and OVERKILL CONDUIT was annonced by Sega for the wii. The anticipation for these titles became hot as many people started to act like Sega was the only company saving nintendo gamers from a dirge of vapour family ware. Then the games came out and didn't sell in great numbers. When GBX and Obsidian was revealed to be working with sega there was another big anticipation that in the case of GBX reached fever pitch. Then the titles was released and didn't reach expectations or whatever. With games from Sega themselves like BINARY DOMAIN the anticipation grew the closer the game reaced it's release date. That game flopped as well for various reasons. It seems Sega is good at getting people excited about their games but not good at making sure the end product is secure, be it marketing the end product or making sure the game is actually good or in some cases even finished. They really need to sortout the process of development outside of their key franchises that has to be good.
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Dude, ROJM, man. Relax.
I'm not gonna argue with you man. Sorry for being so argumentative in the first place. Seriously.
Just let me say a couple things real quick.
I love Sega. Admittedly I think they're currently on a bad track. That's all. That doesn't make me a prick.
And also, I'm not some "new member" which you obviously have a pet peeve about. I don't need to talk about how long I've been playing Sega games and following the company's moves, it's been a seriously long time, but that's not the point.
Suffice it to say I was a writer on Seganerds.com for more than a year and was in the podcasts with Graham and Chris and George and all that shit. I go way back. I saw the writing on the wall with SegaNerds and kind of bailed before George did, but I liked all those dudes a lot and had a great time writing for them while it lasted, before we had a very small falling out about the direction of the site.
I'm not tooting a horn here or anything. If anything I feel bad about the way that site ended and would be hesitant to bring it up. But I'm just saying, I've invested a lot of personal time and energy and money and emotion into following, reporting on, and yes, "supporting" Sega.
I'm with you on a lot of things. But when we disagree don't be so self-righteous man! We're here for the same reasons and I'm honestly sorry if I pissed you off.
Hey man, you are James, right? How have you been doing?
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Hey George! You got it. I'm good. I've been coming here for a long time and I was really glad to see you pick up the torch and improve on things in almost every way. You guys have done an awesome job at segabits.
Like I said earlier it was awesome working with you dudes for a while at the other site. The podcast was a lot of fun. I regret that school and life got in the way of contributing more, but you were always a great contributor, and this site is a daily check-in for me, so keep it up!
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Dude, ROJM, man. Relax.
I'm not gonna argue with you man. Sorry for being so argumentative in the first place. Seriously.
Just let me say a couple things real quick.
I love Sega. Admittedly I think they're currently on a bad track. That's all. That doesn't make me a prick.
And also, I'm not some "new member" which you obviously have a pet peeve about. I don't need to talk about how long I've been playing Sega games and following the company's moves, it's been a seriously long time, but that's not the point.
Suffice it to say I was a writer on Seganerds.com for more than a year and was in the podcasts with Graham and Chris and George and all that shit. I go way back. I saw the writing on the wall with SegaNerds and kind of bailed before George did, but I liked all those dudes a lot and had a great time writing for them while it lasted, before we had a very small falling out about the direction of the site.
I'm not tooting a horn here or anything. If anything I feel bad about the way that site ended and would be hesitant to bring it up. But I'm just saying, I've invested a lot of personal time and energy and money and emotion into following, reporting on, and yes, "supporting" Sega.
I'm with you on a lot of things. But when we disagree don't be so self-righteous man! We're here for the same reasons and I'm honestly sorry if I pissed you off.
dont apologise bro uve done nothing
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Hey George! You got it. I'm good. I've been coming here for a long time and I was really glad to see you pick up the torch and improve on things in almost every way. You guys have done an awesome job at segabits.
Like I said earlier it was awesome working with you dudes for a while at the other site. The podcast was a lot of fun. I regret that school and life got in the way of contributing more, but you were always a great contributor, and this site is a daily check-in for me, so keep it up!
Hey man thanks, just trying to make the type of SEGA site that I would love to visit. SEGA Nerds was cool, but I always sort of regretted not leaving sooner and just doing my own site. Glad you enjoy the site tho!
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What is the feeling with you guys about SEGA in 2013?
I think all the good stuff will come in the second half of the year, but I am not very optimistic to be honest. Not through SEGA's lack of announcements though, but they haven't really talked much about what their plans are for this year other then Sonic.
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I'm feeling optimistic. I think the Creative Assembly and Relic will have solid titles (in fact, Total War: Rome II and Company of Heroes 2 are set in stone for 2013). There will be more digital releases, possibly Skies of Arcadia and Shenmue.
We'll see some more digital Sonic titles, perhaps Sonic 4 Episode III, as well as a new 3D Sonic platformer for all major consoles as well as a 3DS version. Castle of Illusion will likely release to digital platforms soon, and 3DS might get 3D Space Harrier.
Miku for PS3 might be announced for the West, and I'm holding out hope for Yakuza 5 coming late 2013.
On the not-quite-SEGA side of things we might see Bayonetta 2 for the holidays as well as Crimson Dragon on XBLA for the Summer of Arcade event.
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I'm feeling optimistic. I think the Creative Assembly and Relic will have solid titles (in fact, Total War: Rome II and Company of Heroes 2 are set in stone for 2013). There will be more digital releases, possibly Skies of Arcadia and Shenmue.
We'll see some more digital Sonic titles, perhaps Sonic 4 Episode III, as well as a new 3D Sonic platformer for all major consoles as well as a 3DS version. Castle of Illusion will likely release to digital platforms soon, and 3DS might get 3D Space Harrier.
Miku for PS3 might be announced for the West, and I'm holding out hope for Yakuza 5 coming late 2013.
On the not-quite-SEGA side of things we might see Bayonetta 2 for the holidays as well as Crimson Dragon on XBLA for the Summer of Arcade event.
Castle Of Illusion may be being released by Disney not Sega, remember they(Disney) copyrighted the name recently. Sega will probably give them ownership of the code as well if it is indeed the same title and not a remake/a new version. But those two companies have always been close, so who knows? I actually hope there is a surprise coming because really what's coming out doesn't excite me much. Most of the list is dominated by sega west titles and half of that are sequels to games that are considered specialist markets.And apart from YAKUZA and Sonic there isn't any SOJ games i can dig my hands into like i did with BINARY DOMAIN. I guess we have to wait and see.
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Y'know if we get a great Sonic, PSO2 released the right way, and Yakuza 5 I'll be pretty happy.
Also anything they are doing with XBLA/PSN in terms of Arcade games especially get's often announced a few days/weeks proir to release.