SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: ROJM on August 08, 2013, 03:51:39 am
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Got this from another site which translated the original famitsu article concerning The Dreamcast..
Tadashi Takezaki, these days, works at Sega in the position of "head of project implementation department, president's office," which doesn't describe very well the things he's been involved with since joining up in 1993. A veteran of Sega's marketing and PR department in Japan, Takezaki was involved with the launch of both the Saturn and Dreamcast — Sega's final two home game consoles. He was also the man who wrote an emotional online message "to all Sega supporters" in January 31, 2001 to announce that Sega was halting Dreamcast production and becoming a third-party software company.
That certainly wasn't the plan back in 1998, when Sega launched a new system that did its best to learn from previous mistakes. "When we developed the hardware, we looked over the mistakes we made with the Saturn and completely reworked our approach," Takezaki recalled in an interview with Famitsu magazine published this week. "Developing for the Saturn and its two CPUs was difficult enough in itself, but the development environment was also chided for being too lacking. So we fully fleshed out our libraries to make development easier. Even today, the Dreamcast gets a lot of praise for its dev environment."
The Dreamcast was more than dev-friendly, though — it was also casual-friendly, going completely away from the hardcore gamer-oriented trend they established with the 16-bit Genesis and 32-bit Saturn. "We did our best to make the console approachable to a mass audience," Takezaki said, "from the system's design and coloring to the name itself. As a result, we went with a compact, simple design with a warm color scheme, something completely different in look from older Sega systems. I think it was the console that we took the most complete marketing approach with."
So why did the system fail? "In essence, it was a pure matter of cost," replied Takezaki. "It was because we were forced into a discount war when we were already losing money on system sales. Sony [whose PlayStation 2 came out March 2000 in Japan] was part of the team that developed the DVD standard, and they could develop a system around that completely internally with their own chips. Sega, meanwhile, was buying everything from outside companies, so it was at a distinct cost disadvantage. We couldn't easily cut costs on manufacturing, the software wasn't selling the numbers it used to, and then we were forced to discount the system."
It's hard enough to balance hardware costs with profits, but with everything Sega attempted in one go with the Dreamcast, the situation was even more dire than usual. "It's one of those things where the more consoles you sell, the more you lose, so we had to cover that with software sales," Takezaki explained. "But those sales weren't going up, and at the same time, we were busy trying to bring the idea of online gaming to users with the system. Our concept with the Dreamcast was to bring something new to gamers, to build an environment where they could connect with each other from around the world. Sega's whole business model was to build a userbase of cheap network devices, then provide services and products through the Internet; the Dreamcast was our ticket to making that dream come true."
A lot of people in the industry have commented that Sega perhaps pulled the trigger a few years too early with the Dreamcast and its online-centric design. Takezaki doesn't think so. "I think it was the right choice to aim for a net-centric strategy at that time," he said. "However, we went through with it even though our break-even was far too high for it to work. The idea of accessing the net for free at that time was simply fantastic, and we were the ones footing the bill, so in a weird way, Sega was the company paying out the most money for its users at the time."
Looking back, Takezaki sees the Dreamcast as an incredibly revolutionary system, but one that was probably destined to be Sega's last no matter how sales turned out. "I think the Dreamcast really symbolized the changing of the guard that took place around that time," he explained. "PCs really began to evolve and improve at a dizzying rate beginning then, and it made people begin to wonder if a console tuned exclusively for games had any chance of surviving any longer. Still, our experiments with network gaming led to things like Phantasy Star Online, and lots of people are still enjoying that series. The seeds we sowed with the Dreamcast are finally bearing fruit at this point in time. In some ways we were going by the seat of our pants, but it was part of the Sega credo at the time -- if it's fun, then go for it."
http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/7/4599588/why-did-the-dreamcast-fail-segas-marketing-veteran-looks-back
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I don't like to remember this story :'( :'(
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I don't like to remember this story :'( :'(
Me neither. That is why, to this day, I don't feel comfortable playing a "Playstation". I remember people around me passing on Dreamcast to get a playstation 2 for the DVD player. I also remember Sony's bullshit marketing campaign on how much more powerful the system was (powering medical equipment, yeah right).
I could never understand why "gamers" would prefer a console made by a soulless electronics company over a Gaming First company like Sega.
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I think "soulless" is a little extreme. Hey, don't get me wrong; I love Sega. I'm sure that's pretty obvious. My web series isn't called My Life on PlayStation, after all....
Of the consoles, I do prefer the Saturn and Dreamcast. They simply have more games that I enjoy playing. That being said, Sony made consoles that were very user-friendly for both consumers and developers. Certainly cost effective. On top of that, PlayStation introduced me to Twisted Metal, Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid. Yes, Resident Evil eventually went multi-platform and was even ported to the Saturn (my favorite version, mind you). However, PlayStation gave it to me first. Twisted Metal and its sequels are exclusives, as is the original Metal Gear Solid. As for the PS2, it still had Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3, and it got GTAIII first. The DVD player wasn't that important. We already had two of them when the PS2 came out. Though I knew games would be much larger now, thanks to the added gig' space. Also, it was backward-compatible with PSone games, controllers and memory cards.
That being said, I still bought a Dreamcast first because I'm a Sega fan, I didn't want to wait for PS2, and I really wanted Crazy Taxi, House of the Dead 2 and Code Veronica.
Blasting Sony's marketing is a tad hypocritical, considering Sega did the very same thing when Nintendo released the SNES. "It has BLAST-processing!" Yeah, it's a crock of shit. Technically, the SNES was superior in almost every way with the exception of RAM.
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Hey A.J., love your show, but I've gotta say, I think it's completely fair to consider Sony "soulless" as a video game company. Not as much as Microsoft perhaps, but in comparison to a company which built themselves around video games before there was even such a thing as video games and apparently made their motto literally "if it's fun, then go for it," yes, "soulless electronics company" is a perfectly acceptable description.
Frankly, Sony didn't give consumers much of anything in their early days -- they took. Resident Evil would have been the game it was without Sony in the market. They bought timed exclusivity from Capcom because they had the dollars, not because they had the passion. Konami's Metal Gear Solid was exclusive because of dollars and dominance, not because of anything you could call benevolence or inspiration from Sony. I'm not certain about Twisted Metal to be fair -- developed by a third party, produced by 989, could go either way. Still, I find it extremely frustrating that purchased exclusives (timed or otherwise) such as Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VII, Silent Hill, PaRappa the Rapper, Castlevania: SOTN, Tekken, Ridge Racer, and Xenogears are to this day considered by many gamers as Sony products, and/or that Sony should be thanked for giving them to gamers.
The reality is that they bought their way into an industry that they weren't personally skilled enough to succeed in (Gran Turismo and Intelligent Qube, while good games, do not put a company even remotely in the ranks of Sega, Nintendo, SNK, or Hudson by their own merits) -- gaming would have lost nearly none of its great classics of that era without Sony, they simply would have been created for available Sega, Nintendo, and PC platforms instead. They bought this position, and maintained it almost entirely through economic rather than creative dominance.
Pessimistically, I have to note that this was probably inevitable -- when incredible companies like Sega, Nintendo, Konami, Square, and Capcom build a creative industry out of the dirt, it's only a matter of time before dumb money comes along and claims it for their own. Personally, I still can't bring myself to support Sony or Microsoft, but that doesn't mean I think people shouldn't enjoy their video games -- but I don't think that gamers should thank Sony and Microsoft for doing anybody but Sony and Microsoft any favors. Outside of Sony's recent support for smaller, "art-house" developers perhaps, but this is a very recent phenomenon -- still mulling over my thoughts on that development.
Just as a side-note, the advertising thing is sort of different when you're a company like Sega scraping your nails to the bone just to get by in the aftermath of the illegal, competition-eliminating policies of then-behemoth Nintendo, as compared to being the hyper-wealthy, vertically-integrated, uber-conglomeration Sony with a gargantuan lead in the market, greedily snuffing out one of the industry's most influential companies just because you can and that's what "soulless electronics companies" do. To say nothing about the fact that, testosterone-marketing aside, the Mega Drive's CPU was, in reality a good deal faster than the Super Nintendo's.
Anyway, fantastic article -- I can never learn enough about Sega during this time. Always a big inspiration to me how they just powered through and found the drive to be their most creative in the face of certain failure. Which isn't really failure at all, is it? We get so caught up with sales figures and business jargon in video games, but this should be a creative medium foremost -- forget the business garbage and focus on the art. When you fall with that much style, who's to say you're a failure? The folks standing on mountains of money never had the guts to jump.
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OriginalName, Excellent Post! I really could not have said it better myself.
Too bad the Toshiba/Sega Merger rumours have no traction. That really would be supreme poetic justice if they were to take the Sony brand on together.
Sorry Aj, I still hold a grudge on Sony for the Dreamcast days, but even back at the first playstation's release, to me, buying it would have been akin to buying a 3DO. Trusting my sole source of next-gen gaming to the company that made my tape player seemed silly at the time and back then I felt all gamers should have felt the same way. Maybe it was naive to think people would see it like that.
And Blast Processing, sure I fell for it, but only because the Genesis was visibly faster than Snes. Snes games looked prettier (kinda, in a weird way) and technically sounded better (although I prefer the Genesis soundboard), but christ did they ever move slowly. It truly was an RPG box through and through, and back then I had little to no interest in RPG titles.
Right now, I'm hoping that every next gen game I want to play comes out on PC so that I can skip the PS4 and Xbox1 altogether. Nintendo's lucky they're getting Sega titles that will get me to buy their Wii U.
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@Randroid -
Thank you very much, good sir. Always appreciated. :)
However, I fail to see the legitimacy of your arguement. SEGA built their company around gaming in almost every way, shape and form. No question there. However, this working-class hero crap doesn't fly when you apply it to a thriving company, desperate to maintain the considerable market share it had managed to amass during the fourth generation, that made purely financial decisions that ultimately led its failure.
Neither the SEGA CD or 32X were made with intention of unleashing games that were only capable on their respective peripherals, but because the Genesis was starting to look obsolete next to the SNES and its expanding library of technically impressive games. Those were financial decisions; not "oh, isn't this fun" decisions. Anyone that says different is selling you something, in my opinion. The SEGA CD was overpriced upon release and offered little when compared to the Genesis, or even the SNES. The 32X was beyond moronic, especially when you take into account the inevitable release of Saturn. Those are two sterling examples of greed, I feel.
I have several old issues of EGM and SEGA Visions magazine where SEGA fans were either confused or outright upset. Here they invested in both SEGA CD ($299) and 32X ($159), only for a whole new system - SEGA Saturn - to be released shortly thereafter with a $399 asking price. Early adopters were righteously fucked, thanks in large part to SEGA's greed. It formed a river of bad blood that only grew larger over time with every mistake, such as rushing the Saturn to store shelves with half-assed arcade ports (Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA) and a price tag that came off like highway robbery....
"If it sounds fun, do it!" More like, "So long as we're numero uno, we don't care."
Sony on the other hand gave us an affordable 32-bit gaming console with games that weren't available on any other system at the time of its release. PlayStation was very accessible to developers when compared to Saturn that made use of quadrilaterals to render three-dimensional shapes and a dual-CPU archetucture. While the Saturn was a powerful machine, few developers really knew how to utilize its hardware to the fullest. Mind you, I absolutely love the SEGA Saturn. It's my favorite console of the fifth generation. Shit, it's my favorite gaming console of all-time, really. That doesn't change the fact that SEGA - not Sony - fucked it over from minute one.
On top of that, Sony showed incredible support to indie game developers/hobbyists when they released the Net Yaroze in '97. It was a tad pricey, but it gave up-and-coming artists whose interests lied with video gaming an opportunity to work with a development kit. As for the timed exclusivity you claim was purchased with money and dominance, money always helps (SEGA would agree, I'm sure.) and Sony was dominant because they gave gamers what they wanted; next-gen gaming at an affordable price, providing us with games we clearly wanted to play. If Sony sold such an inferior product, without even the faintest hint of a soul, it would have gone the way of CD-i and 3DO. See what I mean?
I love SEGA's gaming consoles and 90% of their arcade games. They've had some incredible artists under their employ. They still do, I feel. If I could somehow roll them all up into a big beautiful woman, I'd most certainly marry the bitch. Then I'd say, "I love you with all my heart, but your parents are assholes."
P.S. SingleTrac developed Twisted Metal for the PlayStation, along with Warhawk. 989 Studios didn't assume command of the Twisted Metal series until Twisted Metal 3. Sadly, the series went downhill from there, in my opinion. Also, Sony had a partnership with SEGA in 1995, publishing titles under the Sony Imagesoft banner. Admittedly, a lot of the games were movie tie-ins (Bram Stoker's Dracula, Cliffhanger, Hook, etc.) and sucked tremendous ass, but they've had their hands in the gaming scene for awhile. Hell, the PlayStation was first developed as an add-on for the SNES. That has to count for something.
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Neither the SEGA CD or 32X were made with intention of unleashing games that were only capable on their respective peripherals, but because the Genesis was starting to look obsolete next to the SNES and its expanding library of technically impressive games. Those were financial decisions; not "oh, isn't this fun" decisions. Anyone that says different is selling you something, in my opinion. The SEGA CD was overpriced upon release and offered little when compared to the Genesis, or even the SNES. The 32X was beyond moronic, especially when you take into account the inevitable release of Saturn. Those are two sterling examples of greed, I feel.
If Sony sold such an inferior product, without even the faintest hint of a soul, it would have gone the way of CD-i and 3DO. See what I mean?
Good points. I can only disagree with the bolded.
I believe the Sega CD was built with the intention of unleashing games that were only capable on it and it was released way before the Saturn. It was the only peripheral capable of FMV games, were they any good? Possibly not (I enjoyed Sewer Shark at the time). Yet even with all the FMV crap, the Sega CD still had some excellent exclusives that could only be accomplished with the Sega CD: Sonic CD, Popful Mail, Eternal Champions CD, Lunar Series. Even the multiplat games shared with Snes were definitive on Sega CD: Final Fight CD, Mortal Kombat. That being said, the 32x was a blunder. I'll even allow you the greed factor on that one, but not for the Sega CD.
And it's funny to see the bashing of Sega's attempts at overpriced, unwanted peripherals in the wake of modern Sony and MS' Move and Kinect. They can do cool stuff, but are there any games worth it?
I also, never thought of Sega as the working man underdog during the PS1 release. If anything, I thought they were the cocky assholes that had to point out how shitty their comp was, but undeniably, they did gaming right, by themselves and on their own terms as they always had. That to me is what I meant by "soul" which Sega has and by extension does Nintendo, Atari and SNK. It essentially boils down to "Did you start as a gaming company?"
I do have to still agree with OriginalName's position that Sony purchased their place. Did they provide what the consumer wanted? Apparently yes. Is it a gaming company? I still have to say no, even to this day. Its name preceding the playstation brand to me can be replaced by any other. If PS4 was all of a sudden branded as Samsung PS4, I can see little change to what can be expected of the console, its image, demographic, etc. Whereas a Sony Genesis, or an Apple Dreamcast, is a souless console without the Sega before it.
I grant that this is probably a generational sentiment, if even that. I'm sure gamers initiated in the PS2 era could never agree with me and I'm not a Sony hater. I use a Sony Xperia U as my phone and have always bought Sony audio products as I respect them as an electronics manufacturer.
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Good points. I can only disagree with the bolded.
I believe the Sega CD was built with the intention of unleashing games that were only capable on it and it was released way before the Saturn. It was the only peripheral capable of FMV games, were they any good? Possibly not (I enjoyed Sewer Shark at the time). Yet even with all the FMV crap, the Sega CD still had some excellent exclusives that could only be accomplished with the Sega CD: Sonic CD, Popful Mail, Eternal Champions CD, Lunar Series. Even the multiplat games shared with Snes were definitive on Sega CD: Final Fight CD, Mortal Kombat. That being said, the 32x was a blunder. I'll even allow you the greed factor on that one, but not for the Sega CD.
And it's funny to see the bashing of Sega's attempts at overpriced, unwanted peripherals in the wake of modern Sony and MS' Move and Kinect. They can do cool stuff, but are there any games worth it?
I also, never thought of Sega as the working man underdog during the PS1 release. If anything, I thought they were the cocky assholes that had to point out how shitty their comp was, but undeniably, they did gaming right, by themselves and on their own terms as they always had. That to me is what I meant by "soul" which Sega has and by extension does Nintendo, Atari and SNK. It essentially boils down to "Did you start as a gaming company?"
I do have to still agree with OriginalName's position that Sony purchased their place. Did they provide what the consumer wanted? Apparently yes. Is it a gaming company? I still have to say no, even to this day. Its name preceding the playstation brand to me can be replaced by any other. If PS4 was all of a sudden branded as Samsung PS4, I can see little change to what can be expected of the console, its image, demographic, etc. Whereas a Sony Genesis, or an Apple Dreamcast, is a souless console without the Sega before it.
I grant that this is probably a generational sentiment, if even that. I'm sure gamers initiated in the PS2 era could never agree with me and I'm not a Sony hater. I use a Sony Xperia U as my phone and have always bought Sony audio products as I respect them as an electronics manufacturer.
SEGA CD wasn't the only system capable of FMV games. They were present on both CD-i and 3DO. In fact, 3DO had both Wing Commander IV and Night Trap. In addition, the video and audio quality was greater. The SEGA CD was overpriced. Consumers made that abundantly, which is why SEGA - rather than dropping the price - decided to include a whole slew of pack-in games. For example, the one my brother bought came with SEGA Arcade Classics, Sherlock Holmes, Sol-Feace and two CD+G discs. For an add-on that requires a core unit in order to function, that's absolutely absurd. I'm not saying it's a bad console, becuase it does have games that I love (Sonic CD, Rise of the Dragon, Soulstar, The Adventures of Willy Beamish, Sol-Feace and a few Genesis ports). SEGA CD has it's placed, but I would've prefered it had SEGA focused their efforts on Genesis while developing its true successor. Instead, they spread themselves far too thin, all so they could maintain their lead....
Hence why I feel these add-ons were motivated by money more than innovation.
I'm not defending the Move or Kinect, nor did I even mention it. Point of fact, I'm not a fan of motion controls in any way. As far as I'm concerned, you play video games with a controller. Call me old fashioned. LOL! Sony and Microsoft are just as guilty as Sega in that respect, though they've yet to hurt console sales for either manufacturer really. Although, that may change with Xbox One if they insist on bundling the unit with Skynet piece of shit.
Okay, I misunderstood you there. I do apologize. As for your definition of "soul", I respect it and understand where you're coming from, though I don't entirely agree. Yes, SEGA's been in the game much longer than Sony and, as I said, I ultimately prefer SEGA consoles and games. SEGA helped shape my gaming sensibilites, beginning in the arcades. Admittedly, Sony isn't a true gaming company. I am compelled to agree with you there. That doesn't make them "soulless" though. Not for me, at least. I'm a Sony supporter because I feel they want to put out products that are innovative and functional. I don't feel they do what they do soley to screw over consumers while taking they're money. I would consider that soulless, personally. Sony may have bought their way into this industry, but I don't feel that makes them soulless, or heartless, or whatever....
And Samsung's PS4?! What the fuck, man?! LOL! I'm sorry, but PlayStation would cease to exist for me if it wasn't Sony. Sony made the PlayStation. I can't associate that with any other company. For me, that's like INXS without Michael Hutchence. Just weird.
I'm not sure if it's a generational sentiment, considering I was raised with Atari 2600, ColecoVision and SMS, and I don't fully agree with you. Hahaha! That's a little joke. I just try to be fair whenever I can. While I may not succeed every single moment of every single day, I do try. Very hard.
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SEGA CD wasn't the only system capable of FMV games. They were present on both CD-i and 3DO.
8) That's why I was careful with my words and said "only peripheral".
Hence why I feel these add-ons were motivated by money more than innovation.
I'm not defending the Move or Kinect, nor did I even mention it.
As for the Move and Kinect, I mentioned them because they are comparable to the Sega CD and 32x in that they are a console peripheral that has it own branded games that do not work without said peripheral.
It's funny that if you think about it, the Kinect is really the only true, full innovation in gaming since the wii as far as there being nothing at all like it before it, and in any industry, if Microsoft is the one innovating, you know you're in trouble.
Okay, I misunderstood you there. I do apologize. As for your definition of "soul", I respect it and understand where you're coming from, though I don't entirely agree.
And Samsung's PS4?! What the fuck, man?! LOL! I'm sorry, but PlayStation would cease to exist for me if it wasn't Sony. Sony made the PlayStation.
Ok, based on this reaction, I can see that you believe Sony does have an "identity" as a gaming company. I apologize for singling out Sony this way. I wouldn't want to personally attack a console someone likes, no matter who makes it. In which case I take back my "souless" comment .... kinda. Well no ... How about I take it back for today? ;)
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LOL! Bro, it doesn't matter whether or not if said piece of hardware is a peripheral or not. Bottom line, SEGA CD wasn't the only piece of hardware capable of delivering such an experience. Although, I will say this, if you we were to exclude the Genesis in final pricing, SEGA CD was certainly the cheapest. The CD-i was a horrendous $699, with the 3DO hitting the scene at $599. Like, what the fuck?! Really?!
God, I still remember how some friends of mine reacted when 360 and PS3 were first announced. "Why are these systems so fucking expensive?" All I could say was, "Dude, don't you remember the Neo-Geo, or the 3DO, or the CD-I?" Their response, "What are those?"
*smh*
In regards to the Kinect, that's completely false. Seriously, have we forgotten the Activator? Yeah, SEGA did it first way back in 1993, with a 16-bit console no less. A quote comes to mind, "What has happened before will happen again." So, seeing as how it isn't all that innovative, I guess we're in good shape. ;)
I'm not looking to change your mind. Honestly, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just didn't understand where you were coming from with the whole "soulless" comment. I get where you're coming from now that we've mulled it over and that's fine. We simply have different definitions when it comes to that particular word is all. Besides, I feel a healthy debate is necessary. At it's best, it can inspire thought and creativity. If it weren't for people challenging me every now and then, I wouldn't know or think half the shit I do now.
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The problem with that statement is that you are talking about a five year period, the 3DO came out much later when the MCD was already established and it was meant to be competing against the upcoming game systems from what was the big two at that time, Sega and nintendo, while the CDI came out around the same time as the MCD was released in the west.
And the MCD wasn't a cash in either since the Megadrive system was built with the MCD in mind. The 32x you can debate about whether that was or not but it was clear by the original MD's design that the MCD was obviously a part of the inception when sega was designing the megadrive.
As for Sony, they used many tactics against Sega and the irony is many of that was tactics that Sega themselves pioneered. The 3D craze that the PSX latched onto was down to Sega and their model 1 and 2 arcade games that Sega failed to exploit properly on the consumer market, their advertising campaign was inspired by Sega's approach, they even tried to use a sonic esque mascot that many forget now was actually the most succesful out of the Sonic clone games from the nineties.
The soulless comment really comes down to the fact that many of their games that appeared on the PSX and its successor are throwaway titles. Could anyone on the street at the top of their head remember a PSX game that isn't Resident Evil, Devil may cry metal gear and tomb raider? And most of those games were originally multiplatform games and weren't originated by Sony.
its easy to lament about the DC for many reasons but it does worry me that whether anyone CAN move on from it at this point. You get the idea that no one at Sega even believes they can make a game on the level as a Sega DC title anymore.
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Crash Bandicoot, LOL. I totally forgot.
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@ROJM
The 3DO was released a few days shy of one year after the SEGA CD in North America. Taking into consideration that SEGA CD wasn't exactly flying off store shelves here, I question just how well it had established itself. I realize the 3DO was meant to compete with next generation hardware, but the Saturn was little more than a year away from it's Japanese launch, making its direct competition the Super Nintendo and SEGA Genesis/SEGA CD. Their TV adverts strengthens that point, I feel....
Still, that's not really the point of my original statement. The point was that SEGA CD wasn't the only piece of hardware capable of providing FMV.
So, because SEGA acted with premeditation, that somehow makes it less of a financial decision? By my estimation, it doesn't. Especially since the SEGA CD fell short in some respects. Sure, the audio is CD quality and it can produce scaling and rotation effects, yet they didn't even bother to expand its color palette beyond 64 colors? Here it's capable of full-motion video, though it looks muddy and dithered? Many games in North America were FMV/QTE games, or Genesis ports, with few titles that truly utilized the format.
Okay, my point was that, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." Sony may have taken a page or two out of SEGA's playbook, but didn't SEGA do the same thing when they developed Alex Kidd? He wasn't meant to be the SEGA equivalent of Mario?
Throwaway titles? You mean games that sold millions and spawned long lasting franchises that gamers continue to support to this day? Also, Tomb Raider was first released on Saturn, yet the PlayStation version outsold it. Did Sony buy that result too? Regardless, I don't see how Sony buying its way into the industry makes it heartless. They gave us some hardware that was easily accessible to programmers and affordable for consumers. If they made worthless crap, gamers wouldn't have bought it....
Sony may not be a true gaming company in the strictest sense. They're a hardware manufacturer more than anything. I won't deny that. However, I don't feel that makes them soulless. That's all I'm saying.
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Crash Bandicoot, LOL. I totally forgot.
LOL! God, I wish I could forget Bandicoot. He was never a mascot for me. Didn't even care for the game. It reminded me too much of Donky Kong Country, and I didn't like those games very much at all. I always felt Sweet Tooth should've been Sony's mascot.
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You make a great point by demystifying the language I used -- admittedly, it's difficult not to make things seem too starry-eyed when you're talking about a childhood favorite. Still, although every company is after a profit, I don't think it's completely naive to take notice of the general mentality that the company seems to embody in their business. You can go too far in this and become a bleary-eyed fanboy, and Sega does have plenty of moments that don't really inspire the kind of "SEGA, SEGA, RAH-RAH-RAH!" sentiment I poured on in my last post. You're right, the "working class hero" archetype could become a bit much...
But! If I lay out exhibit A: Segagaga, exhibit B: Rez, exhibit C: Cooperation with Kenji Eno on Real Sound: Regret of the Wind, I think that we see a company which tried to create a sustainable business around something so much more human and artistic than anything coming from the Sony camp (especially at that time) that there's almost no comparing them in this regard whatsoever. The honest, uncontrived self-aware and conversational nature of Segagaga is still practically unparalleled in its approach of pulling all the corporate veneer off the company that made it and showing you the folks at Sega for who they really were. There are two types of companies: those that use creativity to promote their business, and those that use business to promote their creativity -- the former does NOT make a game like "Rez". Even a passing interest in something so unmarketable and borderline games-as-charity as Real Sound puts a company under a unique classification in my eyes. They were a company that were so blow-your-brains-out amazing on an artistic level that one can't help but think it was part of the reason their business sense was so unbelievably broken -- I can't help but find something admirable and human about that. I mean, you look at the mentality, quotes, and stories about the businessman whose money backed them almost entirely, Isao Okawa, an eccentric multi-millionaire, and you realize that he just plain "loved/believed in/however you want to phrase it" the company and did everything in his power (and his wallet) to keep them going even when it made no business sense whatsoever to do so, and forgave their debts to him just because he... I don't know, because there was a place in his heart for Sega, I guess. It's things like this that make me see Sega as having been very much unique from the average company.
http://wiki.igda.org/Memorials/Isao_Okawa
Anyway, I do understand what you're saying, and you bring up some good points about some of Sony's better characteristics (I'd had no idea about Net Yaroze, for instance), and you're absolutely right in pointing out that Sega (and Nintendo's) awkward hardware and strategies did give Sony the perfect opportunity to make a name for themselves in video games. However, I don't see how logical business sense and vertically-integrated hardware production capabilities equates to anything I'd consider consequential on an artistic level, or "a soul". Actually, although I'm entirely to blame for their use in this conversation thus far, let's move away from words like "soul" or "passion" -- they make it too difficult to parse through this already subjective matter objectively.
As Randroid touched on as well, I have a similarly different interpretation than yours regarding the exclusives coming as a result of their superior product rather than just plain having a ton of money to throw around. Sure, the difficult Saturn architecture didn't help and you raise a valid point there, but you can still find articles on Sony out-bidding Sega for exclusive rights to previously multi-platform titles in the archives of old guard video gaming news sites to this day.
In any event, although I just banned "soul" from my vocabulary, I should clarify that when I said "soulless" I didn't mean it to mean "evil", so much as just that I can't find anything that I could identify as anything so lofty as a "soul" in the company. It's just that a company made up of (in my opinion) the most creative, forward-thinking, and damn loveable game artists trying to be marketed and directed by the batshit-craziest risk-taking, most inferiority complex-ridden, utterly incomprehensible salarymen seems capable of making me speak in sparkly-eyed words like "soul" because that's so much more relatable and human and interesting. Sony, sure they're not "evil", but they are business-driven to the point that I don't find them relatable or defensible in terms of their contribution to the industry as an artistic medium whatsoever. They've been great for the business and popularity of games, for certain, but despite their minor creative contributions and periodic associations with true artists in the field, it has not ultimately served those things in and of themselves -- they have absolutely not created a fertile environment for off-the-wall creativity in games.
Business just has some really unfortunate side-effects. Sure, PlayStation as a brand is far from all bad, but overall it's a great loss for the creative side of the industry that Sony and Microsoft's business practices and expectations have lead industry standards rather than one which promotes competitive co-existence with smaller upstart companies. Sure, Sega was a business overall, but I didn't see Sega of America rushing to snuff out NEC/Hudson when the Turbo was failing to take hold in the market like Sony did with the Dreamcast. I mean honestly, their behavior during that time is still utterly baffling to me -- I mean, yes, I know they're a business, but WHY go through all that effort to pulverize a complete non-threat of a company like that when they're after a niche market you don't cater to in the first place? Sure, "business is business" is the mantra and people follow it, but let's just set precedents aside for a moment and look at that situation -- on a logical, rational level was that not just greedy as fuck? And to do that to a company that you had worked with five years before, no less? That's exactly what I'm talking about -- the people making the decisions probably didn't even know about the ImageSoft projects to begin with -- they're too massive and creatively placeless to keep up with things like that, and that's why I don't trust a company that gargantuan and scatter-brained in a creative field. No stream of consciousness whatsoever.
Haha, clearly the main issue for me is that I am NOT a businessman.
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Oh... oh my... I've done that "gargantuan post" thing again. :-[
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The 3DO was released a few days shy of one year after the SEGA CD in North America. Taking into consideration that SEGA CD wasn't exactly flying off store shelves here, I question just how well it had established itself. I realize the 3DO was meant to compete with next generation hardware, but the Saturn was little more than a year away from it's Japanese launch, making its direct competition the Super Nintendo and SEGA Genesis/SEGA CD. Their TV adverts strengthens that point, I feel....
The Sega CD was established by the time the 3DO came along, Sega had a big brand name at that point that actually mattered to the target audience and nearly everyone was excited by the prospect of the new add on and the type of games it could bring due to Sega being a over popular brand name that couldn't do anything wrong. And sales wise the SCD is still the most successful CD ROM add on console system to be released. If it meant nothing then Nintendo wouldn't have wasted all those millions trying to compete with it with their own version which they ended up abandoning. When you have several titles selling over 100 000 copies, third parties jumping on the band wagon trying to get a developer license for the system and the fact that the system was covered in several mainstream news reports, i'd hardly say that the MCD was a failure.
Still, that's not really the point of my original statement. The point was that SEGA CD wasn't the only piece of hardware capable of providing FMV.
But it was the system that finally made it popular and of course i'm well aware how debatable FMV was popular. But at least two FMV MCD games reached the 100 000 mark so obviously people didn't mind buying them. The systems around the time was capable of doing better FMV than the SCD but that's a moot argument. The master System was a better 8 bit games system but it didn't have the brand name of nintendo(or the illegal exclusive third party contracts) to sell it to the public. The NEC handheld system smoked the pants off both game gear and Gameboy yet it didn't have the brand name to help it sell to the public who only cared about Nintendo and later on sega.
So, because SEGA acted with premeditation, that somehow makes it less of a financial decision? By my estimation, it doesn't. Especially since the SEGA CD fell short in some respects. Sure, the audio is CD quality and it can produce scaling and rotation effects, yet they didn't even bother to expand its color palette beyond 64 colors? Here it's capable of full-motion video, though it looks muddy and dithered? Many games in North America were FMV/QTE games, or Genesis ports, with few titles that truly utilized the format.
That's a silly statement. Its like saying that Sega built the Dreamcast, saturn and megadrive for artistic reasons when we all know its motivated by money after all sega is a business. But you are trying to imply that the MCD was an afterthought and that they made a cynical attempt to cash in. Against what? The SNES, when that was a was years away? The PC engine CD rom? Probably but that was only successful in japan and the megadrive had to be succesful first before the MCD or it wouldn't mean squat. It was obviously part of the conception to have a CD-ROM in place for the megadrive.
Okay, my point was that, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." Sony may have taken a page or two out of SEGA's playbook, but didn't SEGA do the same thing when they developed Alex Kidd? He wasn't meant to be the SEGA equivalent of Mario?
Page or two? They stole the whole damn thing. They pratically did two things taken from the old masters. One, they stole the sega method of marketing and presenting the type of games for a product but they did it less edgier and second they used nintendo's underhanded tactics to penalize their opponents. Remember the NIGHTS PSX advert with the flying PSX? Sony sued Sega and sega had to drop it. Sega couldn't operate on the same level as Sony because Sony had the big bucks. Sony could screw sega's sales price plans with the shop keepers because they could afford to and Sega couldn't reply back in the way they knew how because Sony kept suing them. Which was part of the reason the sega scream adverts were dropped altogether during the saturn era. As for ALEX KIDD, if the character looked like a younger mario i'd agree with you but it wasn't and many of the games doesn't play like mario either. Crash Bandicoot was another furry animal with an attitude who could spin real fast(which they stole off Sega's licensed TAZMANIA game)fighting off knockoff robotnik style enemies.
Throwaway titles? You mean games that sold millions and spawned long lasting franchises that gamers continue to support to this day? Also, Tomb Raider was first released on Saturn, yet the PlayStation version outsold it. Did Sony buy that result too? Regardless, I don't see how Sony buying its way into the industry makes it heartless. They gave us some hardware that was easily accessible to programmers and affordable for consumers. If they made worthless crap, gamers wouldn't have bought it....
Missing the point. ALIENS COLONIAL MARINES sold millions too but that's hardly a quality title as many have pointed out. Like that title many of the PSX games had a cynical approch to them, they weren't artistic they were mostly demographic targetted nonsense titles made to get your buck. BTW,
Is Toshiden still around today? Is demolition derby? Is wipeout? Two of those titles I mentioned outsold VIRTUA FIGHTER and DAYTONA USA, the games they basically were ripping sega off but who is still around and still respected? You haven't given me examples of games that originated on the PSX that are either still around or people would know of from the top of their head. the fact that you failed to name them and tried to use Tombraider which isn't a PSX originated title proves my point. It matters not who outsold what because that was never part of what i said in the first place.
Sony may not be a true gaming company in the strictest sense. They're a hardware manufacturer more than anything. I won't deny that. However, I don't feel that makes them soulless. That's all I'm saying.
Really? Sega and nintendo and game companies before them use to make consoles that actually lasted. How many PSX do you know has lasted longer than 20 years let alone five? Sony brought in their abhorrent edict of hardware not lasting longer than a bloody month, which is why the PSX enjoyed so many sales because people kept buying new ones to replace the older ones. And the reason for that is was due to the market being over dominated by consumers who weren't avid gamers. I remeber that period of gaming history and it was goddamn awful. Most of the real gamers either retreated to the PC or arcades or many just stopped playing altogether and in their place were idiots who believed everything Sony spelt out. Sony made gaming mainstream, sony made it cool for adults sony did this sony did that. All Sony did was jump on the bandwagon at the right time and took the rewards that sega and even nintendo had previously built to the point that the market was ready to explode with more consumers. Of course sega and nintendo missed the boat on this because of their incompetence but Sony made sure that their new market was going to be soley theirs. Because of this and other things i mentioned as well as a few others, that's what make Sony soulless.
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You make a great point by demystifying the language I used -- admittedly, it's difficult not to make things seem too starry-eyed when you're talking about a childhood favorite. Still, although every company is after a profit, I don't think it's completely naive to take notice of the general mentality that the company seems to embody in their business. You can go too far in this and become a bleary-eyed fanboy, and Sega does have plenty of moments that don't really inspire the kind of "SEGA, SEGA, RAH-RAH-RAH!" sentiment I poured on in my last post. You're right, the "working class hero" archetype could become a bit much...
But! If I lay out exhibit A: Segagaga, exhibit B: Rez, exhibit C: Cooperation with Kenji Eno on Real Sound: Regret of the Wind, I think that we see a company which tried to create a sustainable business around something so much more human and artistic than anything coming from the Sony camp (especially at that time) that there's almost no comparing them in this regard whatsoever. The honest, uncontrived self-aware and conversational nature of Segagaga is still practically unparalleled in its approach of pulling all the corporate veneer off the company that made it and showing you the folks at Sega for who they really were. There are two types of companies: those that use creativity to promote their business, and those that use business to promote their creativity -- the former does NOT make a game like "Rez". Even a passing interest in something so unmarketable and borderline games-as-charity as Real Sound puts a company under a unique classification in my eyes. They were a company that were so blow-your-brains-out amazing on an artistic level that one can't help but think it was part of the reason their business sense was so unbelievably broken -- I can't help but find something admirable and human about that. I mean, you look at the mentality, quotes, and stories about the businessman whose money backed them almost entirely, Isao Okawa, an eccentric multi-millionaire, and you realize that he just plain "loved/believed in/however you want to phrase it" the company and did everything in his power (and his wallet) to keep them going even when it made no business sense whatsoever to do so, and forgave their debts to him just because he... I don't know, because there was a place in his heart for Sega, I guess. It's things like this that make me see Sega as having been very much unique from the average company.
http://wiki.igda.org/Memorials/Isao_Okawa
Anyway, I do understand what you're saying, and you bring up some good points about some of Sony's better characteristics (I'd had no idea about Net Yaroze, for instance), and you're absolutely right in pointing out that Sega (and Nintendo's) awkward hardware and strategies did give Sony the perfect opportunity to make a name for themselves in video games. However, I don't see how logical business sense and vertically-integrated hardware production capabilities equates to anything I'd consider consequential on an artistic level, or "a soul". Actually, although I'm entirely to blame for their use in this conversation thus far, let's move away from words like "soul" or "passion" -- they make it too difficult to parse through this already subjective matter objectively.
As Randroid touched on as well, I have a similarly different interpretation than yours regarding the exclusives coming as a result of their superior product rather than just plain having a ton of money to throw around. Sure, the difficult Saturn architecture didn't help and you raise a valid point there, but you can still find articles on Sony out-bidding Sega for exclusive rights to previously multi-platform titles in the archives of old guard video gaming news sites to this day.
In any event, although I just banned "soul" from my vocabulary, I should clarify that when I said "soulless" I didn't mean it to mean "evil", so much as just that I can't find anything that I could identify as anything so lofty as a "soul" in the company. It's just that a company made up of (in my opinion) the most creative, forward-thinking, and damn loveable game artists trying to be marketed and directed by the batshit-craziest risk-taking, most inferiority complex-ridden, utterly incomprehensible salarymen seems capable of making me speak in sparkly-eyed words like "soul" because that's so much more relatable and human and interesting. Sony, sure they're not "evil", but they are business-driven to the point that I don't find them relatable or defensible in terms of their contribution to the industry as an artistic medium whatsoever. They've been great for the business and popularity of games, for certain, but despite their minor creative contributions and periodic associations with true artists in the field, it has not ultimately served those things in and of themselves -- they have absolutely not created a fertile environment for off-the-wall creativity in games.
Business just has some really unfortunate side-effects. Sure, PlayStation as a brand is far from all bad, but overall it's a great loss for the creative side of the industry that Sony and Microsoft's business practices and expectations have lead industry standards rather than one which promotes competitive co-existence with smaller upstart companies. Sure, Sega was a business overall, but I didn't see Sega of America rushing to snuff out NEC/Hudson when the Turbo was failing to take hold in the market like Sony did with the Dreamcast. I mean honestly, their behavior during that time is still utterly baffling to me -- I mean, yes, I know they're a business, but WHY go through all that effort to pulverize a complete non-threat of a company like that when they're after a niche market you don't cater to in the first place? Sure, "business is business" is the mantra and people follow it, but let's just set precedents aside for a moment and look at that situation -- on a logical, rational level was that not just greedy as fuck? And to do that to a company that you had worked with five years before, no less? That's exactly what I'm talking about -- the people making the decisions probably didn't even know about the ImageSoft projects to begin with -- they're too massive and creatively placeless to keep up with things like that, and that's why I don't trust a company that gargantuan and scatter-brained in a creative field. No stream of consciousness whatsoever.
Haha, clearly the main issue for me is that I am NOT a businessman.
This basically sums it all up for me. specifically this...
There are two types of companies: those that use creativity to promote their business, and those that use business to promote their creativity
Now no matter how much the Sega under the sega sammy regime has changed from the old Sega at least there is still some of that spirit that was in abundance and made Sega the legend it became. But i could never say that about the soul deficient Sony in any capacity.
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It's a shame SEGA couldn't compete against Sony, but when your fanbase dwindled due to abandoning the consoles early, it's to be expected.
However, I am happy SEGA made the business decision that made sense (at the time).
I don't mind Sony personally, since it's just business why they did what they did, but their franchises don't excite me nearly as much (I like Uncharted and Gravity Daze, but not much else), which is why they were aggressive. What they lacked in creativity, they made up for in marketing...something SEGA was really bad at (well...not in the Mega Drive era, but still).
Although it's sad to see SEGA no longer in the hardware business, I am happy that we, as fans, have stood by them (even in their darker times), and being such a small fanbase, we appreciate only now their games, in addition to why Nintendo make similar games (although never in the same style). I think as a SEGA fan, we have a unique perspective on an industry that is now catering to soulless sequels, so when someone like Vanillaware, ATLUS or even Suda51 make something creative, we praise it really high whilst condemn how Capcom, Konami and Namco spam the same tried and tested formula (or in Capcpom's case, westernise them).
Although it's a sad read, I believe SEGA can be proud on what they attempted to do...being the Underdog of the industry throughout, and gave many people joy from their games. (No one can fault their ideas, even if the execution has a lot to be desired)
Not even Nintendo can create so many unique franchises and get it right, first time. SEGA have a wealth of IPs that many enjoy to this day and are even considered national treasures at the Manchester PlayExpo (I was amazed at just how many gamers there played; Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, Daytona, Outrun (both games), After Burner, Sonic, NiGHTS and even Chu Chu Rocket multiplayer!) They even provided retro games like Super Fantasy Zone (which I bought), and Skies of Arcadia.)
Trust me when I say, the gamers haven't forgotten from my impression.
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I have been Sega all the way since the Megadrive. I very much like the Saturn but i loved and actually still loves my Dreamcast. I even have quite some (good) sealed DC games.
But i can only agree, with ROJM, about the fact Sony is a "soulless" company. Now, me too, I respect Sony when it comes to its speciality and that is producing sound. I own a Walkman. Now i'm not talking about the Cassette player but a modern age walkman. Though the one I have is not a recent model (NWZ-A826) , it beats the Ipod anyday.
When i look back at the Dreamcast era, I can only be disgusted by the way Sony acted. It acted like a little rich kid, who can afford to bully others because his parents sponsors the school.
Why is that, that Sony doesn't allow any direct competitors? Why did it screw Sega the way it did? Why did it screw Toshiba the way it did (HD-DVD)? Isn't it possible for diffrent technology to co-exist, and that in the end the consumer chose the one they like? Surely there was enough space for different competitors, no?
For those reasons, me too, I will never buy a Playstation. This company has no code. no honor. And this coming from a Japan-based company. A country that I have been idealizing since i was a kid.
That's why, i chose to go with the Xbox. Yes, Microsoft. Now, you can say bad things about MS too. But they are playiing on the same level as Sony. In that case, see it as 'fight fire with fire'.
And in a way I have always felt that the Xbox, was the spiritual successor of the Dreamcast. It feels very Sega like when u play a game. Maybe that is because of the ABXY button layout, maybe because of the shoulder trigger buttons. Or just maybe because the Dreamcast operated under Windows CE, which is Windows, which is Microsoft.
I can only hope that, and I a way, wish that one day Sega, resurrects from its ashes, and comes back to the hardware playground. Because, and I'm sure I'm not the only who noticed it, the market is mature, and getting bigger and bigger.
So, Sega, If you are reading this, make some good financial decisions, but keep your soul, and buy Toshiba or go in a joint-venture or make a merger, i dont know which one, but just try to make a deal. And persevere! With all the comotion around Sony and Microsoft, a new Sega branded console, would have stolen everyone's thunder.
You had great ideas: Virtual Reality was yours, 3D was yours.networking, wordwide or not, was your idea. Dual-screen playing, was your idea. Installing apps, was your idea. Motion control was your idea. You had the will, but not the support.
The future is hardware!
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Salsatuna, first of all welcome to our home :)
Second, I really enjoyed your post.
I too used to support Microsoft in spite of Sony, but as the years progressed MS has slowly been destroying that Sega-y heritage in favor of grabbing some bucks. And Sony has actually developed a "soul". At least in my opinion.
I don't think there will ever be another Sega console, sadly. But it is true, Sega's vision 15 years ago is our present (not as cheap though). I am grateful for supporting this dream ever since it's beginning.
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I have been Sega all the way since the Megadrive. I very much like the Saturn but i loved and actually still loves my Dreamcast. I even have quite some (good) sealed DC games.
But i can only agree, with ROJM, about the fact Sony is a "soulless" company. Now, me too, I respect Sony when it comes to its speciality and that is producing sound. I own a Walkman. Now i'm not talking about the Cassette player but a modern age walkman. Though the one I have is not a recent model (NWZ-A826) , it beats the Ipod anyday.
When i look back at the Dreamcast era, I can only be disgusted by the way Sony acted. It acted like a little rich kid, who can afford to bully others because his parents sponsors the school.
Why is that, that Sony doesn't allow any direct competitors? Why did it screw Sega the way it did? Why did it screw Toshiba the way it did (HD-DVD)? Isn't it possible for diffrent technology to co-exist, and that in the end the consumer chose the one they like? Surely there was enough space for different competitors, no?
For those reasons, me too, I will never buy a Playstation. This company has no code. no honor. And this coming from a Japan-based company. A country that I have been idealizing since i was a kid.
That's why, i chose to go with the Xbox. Yes, Microsoft. Now, you can say bad things about MS too. But they are playiing on the same level as Sony. In that case, see it as 'fight fire with fire'.
And in a way I have always felt that the Xbox, was the spiritual successor of the Dreamcast. It feels very Sega like when u play a game. Maybe that is because of the ABXY button layout, maybe because of the shoulder trigger buttons. Or just maybe because the Dreamcast operated under Windows CE, which is Windows, which is Microsoft.
I can only hope that, and I a way, wish that one day Sega, resurrects from its ashes, and comes back to the hardware playground. Because, and I'm sure I'm not the only who noticed it, the market is mature, and getting bigger and bigger.
So, Sega, If you are reading this, make some good financial decisions, but keep your soul, and buy Toshiba or go in a joint-venture or make a merger, i dont know which one, but just try to make a deal. And persevere! With all the comotion around Sony and Microsoft, a new Sega branded console, would have stolen everyone's thunder.
You had great ideas: Virtual Reality was yours, 3D was yours.networking, wordwide or not, was your idea. Dual-screen playing, was your idea. Installing apps, was your idea. Motion control was your idea. You had the will, but not the support.
The future is hardware!
yes, welcome to the asylum old sega supporter.
I won't say that sega is perfect in the way they handle their buisness but at least they haven't tried to systematically try to put others out of buisness which S*ny has done numourous times. And after what CD has just said which has been mentioned a couple of times, all the main players in the console biz today has ripped off ideas off Sega's consoles for over a decade now. At one point they're going to run out of things to rip off from Sega and that's when our industry is really going to be in trouble if this continues.
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When i look back at the Dreamcast era, I can only be disgusted by the way Sony acted. It acted like a little rich kid, who can afford to bully others because his parents sponsors the school.
Why is that, that Sony doesn't allow any direct competitors? Why did it screw Sega the way it did? Why did it screw Toshiba the way it did (HD-DVD)? Isn't it possible for diffrent technology to co-exist, and that in the end the consumer chose the one they like? Surely there was enough space for different competitors, no
Its BIG Business sadly and you make a rather silly point about HD DVD. It was allowed to co-exist but the consumer chose the BluRay . I mean SONY tried it own DVD format with Philips but the Toshiba format won out (before SONY had a chance to bring out their system) and SONY lost out to VHS with Betamax SEGA and Nintendo were pretty ruthless with its own rivals and did all it could make sure the likes of NEC, Commodore, Atari , 3DO wouldn't take sales away from them.
In the end SEGA shot them self's in the foot and lost the war with the way they handled the 32 bit transition and SEGA never really recovered from that . SEGA lost to many consumers, too much money and too many 3rd parties to the PS, to really have a chance with the DC, but even with the DC SEGA made some utter screw ups - No DVD delivery method (not so much playback) no digital out , No Twin sticks and lack of buttons on the joypads are issues that should have never have happened .
And you like MS did you say ? Is this the company that promised SEGA that it wasn't working on its own console (when it fact it was developing 2 consoles) the same company that made sure Netscape went out of business and a corp that has faced countless court actions for abusing its monopoly . Moves that make MS one of the most hated corps in the world
Think hard now Guvnor ...
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Its BIG Business sadly and you make a rather silly point about HD DVD. It was allowed to co-exist but the consumer chose the BluRay . I mean SONY tried it own DVD format with Philips but the Toshiba format won out (before SONY had a chance to bring out their system) and SONY lost out to VHS with Betamax SEGA and Nintendo were pretty ruthless with its own rivals and did all it could make sure the likes of NEC, Commodore, Atari , 3DO wouldn't take sales away from them.
It's a good thing SEGA/Nintendo couldn't budge Commodore in the UK PC market then...that was more a ZX Speccy/C64/AMSTRAD/BBC Micro war there. :p
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Sega should of made consoles based on their Model 1/2/3 Hardware. Or at least close to it, so games could be ported as good as possible.
The Saturn with it's 2D focus just was wrong imo. Sega themselfs never really provided many games that look took advantage of the 2D strengh of the Saturn. The PSX always blew the 3D attempts at the Saturn.
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Sega should of made consoles based on their Model 1/2/3 Hardware. Or at least close to it, so games could be ported as good as possible.
They did.
System 16 = Mega Drive
Model 2 = Saturn
Model 3/Naomi = Dreamcast
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Its BIG Business sadly and you make a rather silly point about HD DVD. It was allowed to co-exist but the consumer chose the BluRay . I mean SONY tried it own DVD format with Philips but the Toshiba format won out (before SONY had a chance to bring out their system) and SONY lost out to VHS with Betamax SEGA and Nintendo were pretty ruthless with its own rivals and did all it could make sure the likes of NEC, Commodore, Atari , 3DO wouldn't take sales away from them.
In the end SEGA shot them self's in the foot and lost the war with the way they handled the 32 bit transition and SEGA never really recovered from that . SEGA lost to many consumers, too much money and too many 3rd parties to the PS, to really have a chance with the DC, but even with the DC SEGA made some utter screw ups - No DVD delivery method (not so much playback) no digital out , No Twin sticks and lack of buttons on the joypads are issues that should have never have happened .
And you like MS did you say ? Is this the company that promised SEGA that it wasn't working on its own console (when it fact it was developing 2 consoles) the same company that made sure Netscape went out of business and a corp that has faced countless court actions for abusing its monopoly . Moves that make MS one of the most hated corps in the world
Think hard now Guvnor ...
To be quite honest about the HD-DVD. It wasn't the choice of the consumer. At that time Blu-ray players were way too expensive for the majority of people to buy. And at that time it was only about films. A whole lot of distributors (Warner Brothers etc.) were releasing their products on both players (HD-DVD and Blu-ray). But at some point they started to choose a side,as if it was necessary, and in the end only Microsoft was supporting the HD-DVD format. In my opinion this was an elaborated scheme of one company, who, in my opinion made some (financial) promesses to them.
As I said, the majority wasn't buying those players and especially the blu-ray, as it was too expensive. So knowing that, there is no way, the consumer made a choice. Yes, the blu-ray had a higher capacity, but the HD-DVD became double-sided (DVD on one side and HD-DVD on the other side). So, in no way the HD-DVD was inferior, as capacity doesn't make a system inferior.
If so, why did the VHS became popular? While the Video 2000 from Phillips was double-sided? It appears that the only reason was that, pornographic material was made available to the VHS and not to other/all the formats .
As all the good Sega connaisseurs, me too, I know that SEGA shot in its own foot. This has even became history. But it certainly has nothing to do with the gamepad/controller that made people choose a Playstation.
I agree, that the Dreamcast didn't have a DVD player for games or even for playback. Or digital out. But did anyone who has a DC missed it? No, they didn't. You were still able to have higher quality imagery thanks to VGA output. It didn't have 720p (*edit 560p). I admit that. But as I'm European, it didn't matter a bit. Even when I had an Xbox, I could not have 720p (edit: 560p)as it wasnt supported on European models (PAL systems). And at that time, no one really cared about that kind of resolution.
So, it only seems that people bought a PS because of a Unique Selling Proposition, and that was "it has a DVD player". Now, that same caterogy of people, are bashing the unborn XboxOne because, it is proposing other features besides "just gaming"!
I never said I like Microsoft but I said that I chose Microsoft over Sony. For obvious reasons. To be honest, Sega was the last brand I felt associated with. Evenmore, I do not identify myself with a brand. I buy something because of its quality and the purpose of it. Sega made quality products regardless of their marketing strategy.
And as I said, people can say bad things about Microsoft too. But here I am only referring to the Xbox, which is one the many products (and also a trademark) of Microsoft. It is not because I buy an Xbox, that it means that I adore it and that I am a true follower. It is like saying that if I go to McDonalds, that i endorse, animal cruelty?! Which I don't!
Yes, Microsoft, did things wrong. But,it doesn't mean that when I buy a Xbox that I condone it. But above all, it doesn't mean that if one company did it, that in that case another one may do it aswell.
Correct me if i'm wrong?
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Salsatuna, first of all welcome to our home :)
Second, I really enjoyed your post.
I too used to support Microsoft in spite of Sony, but as the years progressed MS has slowly been destroying that Sega-y heritage in favor of grabbing some bucks. And Sony has actually developed a "soul". At least in my opinion.
I don't think there will ever be another Sega console, sadly. But it is true, Sega's vision 15 years ago is our present (not as cheap though). I am grateful for supporting this dream ever since it's beginning.
Thanks for the warm welcome :) . I also would like to add, that, I was always present, watching and reading, on the site.
I'm an observator, but occasionaly, I participate or intervene.
Yes, I know it's wishful thinking from me, wanting a new Sega console. One can only hope for the day.
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Yes, I know it's wishful thinking from me, wanting a new Sega console. One can only hope for the day.
If anything, SEGA should take a stab at the handhelds again.
Or at the very least, help Nintendo design the next console with royalties being handed to them in such a partnership. That way, SEGA are guaranteed sales AND they have a platform to which to put their games on, without as much of a risk due to the royalties from other companies.
I believe it's only time before companies start working together on a console where everybody wins in terms of development time and cycles.
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I never said I like Microsoft. I said I chose Microsoft over Sony. For obvious reasons. To be honest, Sega was the last brand I felt associated with. Evenmore I do not identify myself with a brand. I buy something because of its quality and the purpose of it. Sega made quality products regardless of their marketing strategy.
This was my exact sentiment at the time as well. As soon as Sega stopped making consoles, I stopped being personally invested in them. My gamer self DREAMS of a chance to return to the time of a single machine for all Sega games.
I have to agree with Nameless as well. The portable market is wide open for the anti-nintendo or "hardcore" crowd as Sony is massively dropping the ball on the vita. The 3DS has proven that portable consoles don't need to be bleeding-edge tech, so R&D costs would be much less than what would be required of a home console.
Pack in some basic phone functionality with an Android layer, and boom, instant library of Sega launch titles available with no extra development time needed and the marketing bonus of having one device (something the Vita really should have done by now).
Oh and if Sega does secure Atlus, the Shin Megami Tensei and Persona series can make this system serious competition for the 3DS.
All this while still allowing their console development remain as a 3rd party to the remaining big 3.
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This was my exact sentiment at the time as well. As soon as Sega stopped making consoles, I stopped being personally invested in them. My gamer self DREAMS of a chance to return to the time of a single machine for all Sega games.
I have to agree with Nameless as well. The portable market is wide open for the anti-nintendo or "hardcore" crowd as Sony is massively dropping the ball on the vita. The 3DS has proven that portable consoles don't need to be bleeding-edge tech, so R&D costs would be much less than what would be required of a home console.
Pack in some basic phone functionality with an Android layer, and boom, instant library of Sega launch titles available with no extra development time needed and the marketing bonus of having one device (something the Vita really should have done by now).
Oh and if Sega does secure Atlus, the Shin Megami Tensei and Persona series can make this system serious competition for the 3DS.
All this while still allowing their console development remain as a 3rd party to the remaining big 3.
I cannot say that you and Nameless are incorrect. Getting back on the horse, by starting with a handheld is very do-able. And it's also financially "prudent" as you both also stated very clearly. Maybe we should all take iniatiative and kickstart something?
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If Sega started a Kickstarter for a new console or handheld yeah i'd jump on the wagon, but i wouldn't support a fan project, wouldn't want my cash to go down the drain. With something like this, i'd need to see credibility or at least a good resume.
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Sega isn't a group of backyard neckbeards and feminazis like the Ouya bunch, they don't need no kickstarter.
If such a situation is beneficial for Sega I'm sure they have already considered it. But I fail to see where starting a war with Nintendo, Sega's current best buddy, would fit in the picture at all. Do you think Nintendo would accept Sega's home console games on the WiiU while Sega's handheld eats up handheld marketshare?
Maybe in the future when Nintendo gives up home consoles and Sega's PC investment is a success..
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Sega isn't a group of backyard neckbeards and feminazis like the Ouya bunch, they don't need no kickstarter.
If such a situation is beneficial for Sega I'm sure they have already considered it. But I fail to see where starting a war with Nintendo, Sega's current best buddy, would fit in the picture at all. Do you think Nintendo would accept Sega's home console games on the WiiU while Sega's handheld eats up handheld marketshare?
Maybe in the future when Nintendo gives up home consoles and Sega's PC investment is a success..
The way I see it, Nintendo wouldn't have a choice. WiiU isn't exactly attracting a ton of 3rd party support at the moment. You can argue that their most anticipated title this year is a sega one (sonic lost world). With EA outright dissing the WiiU and Ubi scaling back, Sega is kinda their most prominent 3rd party supporter at the moment.
Sega kinda has Nintendo by the balls at the moment and I doubt Nintendo has the authority to shut down future product development from Sega. What could they do? Not allow Sega titles their titles on their systems. Wouldn't hurt so bad. I'm sure XB1 and PS4 would gladly host the next gen Sonic and other IPs. All the more if they secure Atlus.
Nope, if Sega was ever to flex some muscle and make some hard terms with Nintendo, now is the time while the WiiU's place in the next gen is uncertain and they themselves are nice and profitable.
I agree with you that a Kickstarter will never, ever, ever happen from Sega's end though (and shouldn't). I also agree with you that a portable console is in no way a new idea to them and if they thought it was feasible and profitable, they would have dove in already.
Is it just me or is or does it feel like Sega's planning something, something big? They keep snatching up or trying to snatch up the prime studios of these failed publishers. Something's going on, I tells ya.
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The way I see it, Nintendo wouldn't have a choice. WiiU isn't exactly attracting a ton of 3rd party support at the moment. You can argue that their most anticipated title this year is a sega one (sonic lost world). With EA outright dissing the WiiU and Ubi scaling back, Sega is kinda their most prominent 3rd party supporter at the moment.
Sega kinda has Nintendo by the balls at the moment and I doubt Nintendo has the authority to shut down future product development from Sega. What could they do? Not allow Sega titles their titles on their systems. Wouldn't hurt so bad. I'm sure XB1 and PS4 would gladly host the next gen Sonic and other IPs. All the more if they secure Atlus.
Nope, if Sega was ever to flex some muscle and make some hard terms with Nintendo, now is the time while the WiiU's place in the next gen is uncertain and they themselves are nice and profitable.
I agree with you that a Kickstarter will never, ever, ever happen from Sega's end though (and shouldn't). I also agree with you that a portable console is in no way a new idea to them and if they thought it was feasible and profitable, they would have dove in already.
Is it just me or is or does it feel like Sega's planning something, something big? They keep snatching up or trying to snatch up the prime studios of these failed publishers. Something's going on, I tells ya.
that Kickstarter idea, is more like a kick in the head towards Sega. Maybe if the see how much people are willing to invest it will let a bell ring.
But, yes something is up, Sega's redefined strategy, buying developpers,...It definetly looks like they are buying themselves back into the market. But only them are seeing the big picture as we don't even know Sega's point of view or even its short, middle or long-term expectations and/or ambitions.
And as i have stated before, "with all the commotion around Sony and Microsoft a new Sega branded console would steal everybody's thunder" and even their lightning.
If all the moves Sega is making lately can be considered as baby-steps. Then, by all mean, please continue making those steps until full maturity. Patience is a virtue as it is said.
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Is it just me or is or does it feel like Sega's planning something, something big? They keep snatching up or trying to snatch up the prime studios of these failed publishers. Something's going on, I tells ya.
The same thing is going on the moment Segasammy became an official company and Satomi, the group leader stated his intentions on what he wanted the group to become. "The biggest entertainment company of video games in the world". Or something to that affect. All the investments and acquisitions of companies like Sanjio(Hello Kitty) to Creative Assembly still points to that goal but on a slower pace than he originally had hoped for.
Sega doesn't need to get back into the game until the big players drop out. I shudder to think what a console would be like from sega without their genius hardware designer Hideki Sato.
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To be quite honest about the HD-DVD. It wasn't the choice of the consumer. At that time Blu-ray players were way too expensive for the majority of people to buy. And at that time it was only about films. A whole lot of distributors (Warner Brothers etc.) were releasing their products on both players (HD-DVD and Blu-ray). But at some point they started to choose a side,as if it was necessary, and in the end only Microsoft was supporting the HD-DVD format. In my opinion this was an elaborated scheme of one company, who, in my opinion made some (financial) promesses to them.
And the likes of Paramount only backed HD DVD. If MS had the balls and put in a HD DVD drive into every 360 it may have won the war . In the end it was the consumer that made sure who won.
I agree, that the Dreamcast didn't have a DVD player for games or even for playback. Or digital out. But did anyone who has a DC missed it? No, they didn't. You were still able to have higher quality imagery thanks to VGA output.
Yes they did . and DVD used for games (I wasn't at all bothered about DVD playaback) would have helped made sure all the games came on 1 disc and helped SEGA with piracy.
So, it only seems that people bought a PS because of a Unique Selling Proposition, and that was "it has a DVD player". Now, that same caterogy of people, are bashing the unborn XboxOne because, it is proposing other features besides "just gaming
That is just rubbished tbh . In Japan sure in the West not really. More people went for the Hype of Toy Story graphics in real time, 70 million polygons and games like GT 3 and MGS 2 - That's what really won the day for SONY games and 3rd party/retail support .
Sega made quality products regardless of their marketing strategy.
So does SONY, So does MS and so on . SEGA fans not might like it , but the PS was a great product and a nice system . I hated the likes SONY spun with the PS2 but SEGA its self have played that game 500,000 polygons with the Saturn (yeah right ) trying to pass off Arcade footage of VF and Daytona USA as running on the Saturn, using Arcade screen shots on flyers , even with the DC SEGA span a few lies like every DC game would be running at 60 fps - when even Sonic Adv couldn't hit that target.
A lot of what happend to SEGA was of its own making and its own fault , but there you go .
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And the likes of Paramount only backed HD DVD. If MS had the balls and put in a HD DVD drive into every 360 it may have won the war . In the end it was the consumer that made sure who won.
Yes they did . and DVD used for games (I wasn't at all bothered about DVD playaback) would have helped made sure all the games came on 1 disc and helped SEGA with piracy.
That is just rubbished tbh . In Japan sure in the West not really. More people went for the Hype of Toy Story graphics in real time, 70 million polygons and games like GT 3 and MGS 2 - That's what really won the day for SONY games and 3rd party/retail support .
So does SONY, So does MS and so on . SEGA fans not might like it , but the PS was a great product and a nice system . I hated the likes SONY spun with the PS2 but SEGA its self have played that game 500,000 polygons with the Saturn (yeah right ) trying to pass off Arcade footage of VF and Daytona USA as running on the Saturn, using Arcade screen shots on flyers , even with the DC SEGA span a few lies like every DC game would be running at 60 fps - when even Sonic Adv couldn't hit that target.
A lot of what happend to SEGA was of its own making and its own fault , but there you go .
Your statement about the HD-DVD doesn't prove at all that the consumer made a choice. You are saying that the consumer made a choice by buying the only available system left, which is the Blu-ray, as there was/is nothing else left to buy .
Dvd-rom or not. It wouldn't have made a lot of difference in regards to Piracy. The system operated under Windows CE. And it's a known fact that 90% of the systems worldwide are IBM PC's. Those PC's at that time were practically all running on Windows. So a hacker/cracker had little alteration to make to the code.
Maybe you bought the PS because of the games you mentionned. Because of the "timed exclusives" and because of other 3rd party titles.
In that case you're proving that Original Name is correct. If it were not for all the buy-off's Sony did , it really stood nowhere. And everyone that tested the two consoles simultaneously knows that the DC was faster, and delivered better colours and graphics. So, basicly what the PS2 could, the DC could do better.
As for the "I'm gonna buy a PS2 because it has a DVD" is not rubbish at all. I witnessed it, and everyone here, who is not blinded Sony's little playstation's will tell you the same. Search for other forums and you will find the same comments. And i'm talking only for the West.
Common, quality products from Sony or even Microsoft?! Hell, my friends who had a PS1, really had an average of 3 to 4 in total. Quality you said?! My original xbox got repaired once if i'm not mistaken. thanks to Microsoft great 2year Warranty, if not i would have probably need to buy a new one. As for the X360, my first model was repaired only once. Which is actually a miracle considering all the shit you can read online. But it lasted 3 years, so no warranty, but Microsoft still delivers aftersales on items outside of warranty, so UPS came and took, and Microsoft gave me a new one for around 90euro's. My red xbox360 hasn't given on me yet. And my star wars slim seems very much ok. I heard shit about the PS2 aswell. As for the PS3, I didn't care anymore, but im sure it's not flawless too as it has undergone numerous facelifts.
Now tell me that again, knowing that my Megadrive, Saturn, and DC all works perfectly after all those years??
I've also mentionned, that, Yes Sega shot in its own foot. I even said it using your words.
But as Original mentionned, Sony has a great share in SEGA's failing, especially during the DC era.
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Your statement about the HD-DVD doesn't prove at all that the consumer made a choice. You are saying that the consumer made a choice by buying the only available system left, which is the Blu-ray, as there was/is nothing else left to buy .
? HD DVD was out before BluRay it was also on sale the same time as BluRay the consumer went with BluRay . Its quite simply really .
Dvd-rom or not. It wouldn't have made a lot of difference in regards to Piracy. The system operated under Windows CE. And it's a known fact that 90% of the systems worldwide are IBM PC's. Those PC's at that time were practically all running on Windows. So a hacker/cracker had little alteration to make to the code
What ? The DC used SEGA own front end and 90% of DC games used SEGA own Set 5 development system and kits . Hardly any developer used Windows CE has to get the best out of the DC you needed to code to the metal . The fact that didn't use DVD made it very easy to copy games at time .
Maybe you bought the PS because of the games you mentionned. Because of the "timed exclusives" and because of other 3rd party titles.
In that case you're proving that Original Name is correct. If it were not for all the buy-off's Sony did , it really stood nowhere.
I never bought a PS and its laughable to see SEGA fans have a pop at SONY for doing deals and timed exclusives and even one that's a XBox fan . Don't MS do timed exclusivses with the likes of Ninja Gaiden, Lost Plannet and so , didn't SEGA do deals with Capcom on the likes of Resdient Evil Code Veronica, C&C and Tomb Raider on the Saturn . Sorry to crush a dream but they all do it .
As for the "I'm gonna buy a PS2 because it has a DVD" is not rubbish at all. I witnessed it, and everyone here, who is not blinded Sony's little playstation's will tell you the same
It is rubbish as far more people bought a PS2 to play the likes of MGS 2 and the like or the fact that in the USA sales of DVD films didn't shoot up that much with the PS2 . I'm sure some bought a PS3 becasie it was a cheaper BluRay player, but in the end more people buy a console for it's games .
And everyone that tested the two consoles simultaneously knows that the DC was faster, and delivered better colours and graphics. So, basicly what the PS2 could, the DC could do better.
Spare me the fanboy drivel . Fact 1 the PS2 had by far the fastest and better CPU also the PS2 had the biggest and faster memory bandwidth of any console (for the time it was quite incredible) the machine could also handle way way more polygons . I would agree that the DC displayed the better image , the better more colorful and cleaner textures though .
My original xbox got repaired once if i'm not mistaken. thanks to Microsoft great 2year Warranty
It was 3 years and that was only thanks to the outcry over the TROD that almost every owner of the old 360 suffered from .
I heard shit about the PS2 aswell. As for the PS3, I didn't care anymore, but im sure it's not flawless too as it has undergone numerous facelifts.
We need to get our facts straight the 360 has its self gone through 3 redesigns and numerous chispets changes be that Falcon, Jasper and so on and its not like the old XBox Thomson drives didn't have massive issues of their own
Now tell me that again, knowing that my Megadrive, Saturn, and DC all works perfectly after all those years
MD was a Cart machine - no moving parts = much better reliability . Sorry but the DC had many issues of it own from scratching discs for Japanse systems, to the shoulder buttons breaking or the PSU connector needing cleaning (or the machine would switch off ).
So lets take off those rose tinted glasses shall we ;) :P
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Geez, TA, do you have to be always aggresive to new members whenever they bring such enthuasim for Sega to this site? Whatcha trying to do scare them off? Never mind the sad fact that you've become an coporate apoligist for S*ny and M$ rather than the once pround sega supporter you use to be.
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My two cents...
Your statement about the HD-DVD doesn't prove at all that the consumer made a choice. You are saying that the consumer made a choice by buying the only available system left, which is the Blu-ray, as there was/is nothing else left to buy .
It wasn't the customers choice. The movie industry decided to back Blu Ray over HD-DVD. Its an estabilshed fact. Some say it was for revenge over the huge piracy and downloads which they blamed Microsoft for enabling via windows. You are correct in this so i don't see why its being contested.
Maybe you bought the PS because of the games you mentionned. Because of the "timed exclusives" and because of other 3rd party titles.
In that case you're proving that Original Name is correct. If it were not for all the buy-off's Sony did , it really stood nowhere. And everyone that tested the two consoles simultaneously knows that the DC was faster, and delivered better colours and graphics. So, basicly what the PS2 could, the DC could do better.
As for the "I'm gonna buy a PS2 because it has a DVD" is not rubbish at all. I witnessed it, and everyone here, who is not blinded Sony's little playstation's will tell you the same. Search for other forums and you will find the same comments. And i'm talking only for the West.
Another estabilshed fact that you have said which isn't worth contesting. DVD was on sale in Japan for months and didn't take off. It only took off in Japan because the pS2 could not only play DVDs but was the most affordable DVD unit around at the time. That was also the reason why people brought the PS2 in the west. It sure as hell wasn't for the games because no actual game of any worth appeared on the PS2 until three years into after launch.
Common, quality products from Sony or even Microsoft?! Hell, my friends who had a PS1, really had an average of 3 to 4 in total. Quality you said?! My original xbox got repaired once if i'm not mistaken. thanks to Microsoft great 2year Warranty, if not i would have probably need to buy a new one. As for the X360, my first model was repaired only once. Which is actually a miracle considering all the shit you can read online. But it lasted 3 years, so no warranty, but Microsoft still delivers aftersales on items outside of warranty, so UPS came and took, and Microsoft gave me a new one for around 90euro's. My red xbox360 hasn't given on me yet. And my star wars slim seems very much ok. I heard shit about the PS2 aswell. As for the PS3, I didn't care anymore, but im sure it's not flawless too as it has undergone numerous facelifts.
Something they stole from Sega with the Megadrive and Master system 2 facelifts...to your main point...
Yes another estabilshed fact. PS1's always broke down. It was unique at the time because game systems up to that point wasn't known to break down and especially break down that frequently. The PS2 also did the same thing. I knew someone who owned a Saturn and his mom chucked the system from the top of the stairs and it still worked. Saturn the durable... to be this good takes sega... to last this good takes sega again. To break down after a feather lands on your game system takes Sony. True story by the way...
Now tell me that again, knowing that my Megadrive, Saturn, and DC all works perfectly after all those years??
Exactly because many people who still own those systems have never complained about the systems breaking down. Compared to the PSx userbase who probably doesn't have a workable PSX and PS2 working from when they originally brought it.
I've also mentionned, that, Yes Sega shot in its own foot. I even said it using your words.
But as Original mentionned, Sony has a great share in SEGA's failing, especially during the DC era.
Yes another fact well estabilshed. Well said.
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If such a situation is beneficial for Sega I'm sure they have already considered it. But I fail to see where starting a war with Nintendo, Sega's current best buddy, would fit in the picture at all. Do you think Nintendo would accept Sega's home console games on the WiiU while Sega's handheld eats up handheld marketshare?
Maybe in the future when Nintendo gives up home consoles and Sega's PC investment is a success..
It's why I suggested partnering with Nintendo to make a hybrid SEGA/Nintendo handheld.
That way, SEGA can make Sonic titles on the Wii U or whatever and gaining profits from the handheld nature (DAT POKEMON MONEY!).
They can still do PC (and console) development, since Nintendo has no say in what SEGA can do. Fingers in all the pies, I say.
I don't think Nintendo games are enough to keep their own consoles competitive vs Sony/MS, but if they have SEGA on board, then they could both be the perfect haven for gamers who are into the more Japanese experiences.
By staying on one handheld sector, SEGA have at least picked the winning horse (no offence to the Vita).
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Nintendo wouldn't agree to that even if it was profitable. They'd rather cut their nose to spite their face rather than partner with anyone on a system. The whole Sony/Nintendo Playstation SNES CD-ROM was a good example of why they wouldn't want o get burnt again.
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Geez, TA, do you have to be always aggresive to new members whenever they bring such enthuasim for Sega to this site?
There's no a single personal attack in the whole of my posts . I just so bored of it wasn't SEGA fault it was all the fault of the evil SONY. I refused too and never have bought a PS , I'm not a fan of the PS2 hardware at all but the facts are that SEGA did more damage to it self and more to hurt the company that what SONY or MS did. And even now SEGA is making some bonehead mess ups with SONIC only coming to the Wii U for consoles being 1 of them :(
That said the utter lies of the PS2 on-line and the fake PS2 demo's still to this day hurt :(
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it wasn't SEGA fault it was all the fault of the evil SONY.
That's because it is S*ny's fault and yes they are evil. ;)
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As we can all see and read talking about Sega and especially the Dreamcast, brings up a lot of emotion. So, no offense taken.
Ironically, Sega named its last console the DREAMcast. And so it leaves us with a dream...
I had a dream...
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That's because it is S*ny's fault and yes they are evil. ;)
Indeed.
I'm glad I have never owned a Playstation console so far hehe.
As we can all see and read talking about Sega and especially the Dreamcast, brings up a lot of emotion. So, no offense taken.
Ironically, Sega named its last console the DREAMcast. And so it leaves us with a dream...
I had a dream...
Dude, sometimes I get myself wondering, "what if it had worked", you know... and It's such an amazing dream...
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yes it was an amazing dream. Unfortunatly it came in the middle of the biggest nightmare that was called the PSX and PS2.
That said the utter lies of the PS2 on-line and the fake PS2 demo's still to this day hurt
Changed your tune huh? But i'm glad you brought it up. Someone should write a book called The Great Video Game Swindle. which shows how Sony conned millions of consumers on a system that never did what they said it could do. It couldn't play games because the likelyhood was that the machine would break down in the middle of gameplay, the dvd would make the mega CD blush, and that always worked, The online thing was almost non existant and didn't work properly, Sony made gamers wait for three years before any games came out. I'm suprised that they didn't get sued for customer neglect and lies. Let alone fool half the world with a shoddy product.
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My two cents...
It wasn't the customers choice. The movie industry decided to back Blu Ray over HD-DVD. Its an estabilshed fact. Some say it was for revenge over the huge piracy and downloads which they blamed Microsoft for enabling via windows. You are correct in this so i don't see why its being contested.
Another estabilshed fact that you have said which isn't worth contesting. DVD was on sale in Japan for months and didn't take off. It only took off in Japan because the pS2 could not only play DVDs but was the most affordable DVD unit around at the time. That was also the reason why people brought the PS2 in the west. It sure as hell wasn't for the games because no actual game of any worth appeared on the PS2 until three years into after launch.Something they stole from Sega with the Megadrive and Master system 2 facelifts...to your main point...
Yes another estabilshed fact. PS1's always broke down. It was unique at the time because game systems up to that point wasn't known to break down and especially break down that frequently. The PS2 also did the same thing. I knew someone who owned a Saturn and his mom chucked the system from the top of the stairs and it still worked. Saturn the durable... to be this good takes sega... to last this good takes sega again. To break down after a feather lands on your game system takes Sony. True story by the way...
Exactly because many people who still own those systems have never complained about the systems breaking down. Compared to the PSx userbase who probably doesn't have a workable PSX and PS2 working from when they originally brought it.
Yes another fact well estabilshed. Well said.
I think that's the first time im hearing what you are saying about HD-DVD being punished. It doesn't even seems far-fetched, so it must be true to some(if not a high) degree. There were some dirty games being played behind closed doors.
The PS1 was actually a project ordered by Nintendo. But it seems Nintendo was very unhappy about the final product and rejected it. This has to mean something?
So, what does one do when one has a product that the orginal buyer doesn't want anymore? Surely Sega wouldn't want it. So they did the only thing they could do in order to make profit. Selling it under their own brand.
And as they didnt even know where to start, they turned to Sega for inspiration as Sega was pioneering what was called Virtual Reality at that time. True story by the way, you can find an official Sony statement about that.
Sony really played all its cards in order to make its console take-off. It even started thinking outside of the box, using its know-how and started combining elements that were absolutely not done before. In a time when Sega and Nintendo used the technology that was currently available on the market, Sony totally fabricated a new one, which even became the new standard, to sell its console. While Sega's GD-Rom, a proprietary 1GB disc, was a great invention for the gaming world. The ingenius invention of the DVD; which is actually a mass-market product, totally blew it away.
Nowadays, we have a word for that: Overkill. .Sega really couldn't compete with Sony's business model. As they are not playing in the same playground.
But people were blinded by the Versatility of the DVD: "What? movies and games??"on a console??" Parents, were starting thinking rather "economics" and saw the savings they could do.
But then came some new problems, mass market production, came at a cost. What used to be durable became a Fast moving consumable good (FMCG). So, yes, said the industry, we can sell you a versatile system. But it wont last long. Hell, it will even break if you are not careful with it. It might even break if you are careful too!
To me Sega products, and Nintendo even more, are high quality and durable products. Though the fact that did Sega introduce the world to the concept of "facelift to consoles". It was doing it in order to reduce production costs. We all know that the new competitors are doing it aswell, but this didnt happen in the same timeframe. The exception to the rule is that even before the facelift(s), Sega's products were still flawless and of high and durable quality.
Do you guys remember that Youtube video about where a two person's tested how tough the N64 was? They even drove over the N64 with a truck?! The thing didn't shatter to pieces!
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Changed your tune huh? But i'm glad you brought it up.
? I never changed my tune . I don't like the PS2 but it was a powerful systems (when used right) and it had great games . I've always been more of a fan of the XBox .
In the end if one takes off their blinkers and fanboys hats they'll see SONY is just like every other corp that will do all it can to make money and in the end SEGA totally mess up on the 32 Bit generation is what cost it dear.
In a time when Sega and Nintendo used the technology that was currently available on the market, Sony totally fabricated a new one, which even became the new standard, to sell its console. While Sega's GD-Rom, a proprietary 1GB disc, was a great invention for the gaming world. The ingenius invention of the DVD; which is actually a mass-market product, totally blew it away.
You see this is fanboy drivel and SONY didn't develope the DVD - Toshiba did . SONY/Philips Super density disc disc lost out that so DVD was choosen and agreed by Moving Picture Experts Group. BTW Yamaha GD-Rom was just pushing CD Tech that bit more, Philips made a bigger CD-Rom disc (800 Meg for the Jaguar CD unit ) and SONY it's self tried to come up with own like Mini Disc and so on.
And lets not forget NEC the makers of the worlds 1st CD Drive for consoles way back in 1988.
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You see this is fanboy drivel and SONY didn't develope the DVD - Toshiba did . SONY/Philips Super density disc disc lost out that so DVD was choosen and agreed by Moving Picture Experts Group. BTW Yamaha GD-Rom was just pushing CD Tech that bit more, Philips made a bigger CD-Rom disc (800 Meg for the Jaguar CD unit ) and SONY it's self tried to come up with own like Mini Disc and so on.
And lets not forget NEC the makers of the worlds 1st CD Drive for consoles way back in 1988.
Team Andromeda, you are calling a Segabits.com site/forum user, which is dedicated Sega's past and future glory, a fanboy!? :))
Ok, seriously now , I admire Sega, but why are you misreading my lines. If you read me correctly, you would see that I respect any technology that deserves to be respected. And now you get where I'm going with that. I'm not some nerd who makes pointless statetements just because he likes something. Even worse, I'm not even a nerd!
But I sure don't make pointless statements. I choose my words wisely and I do my research on-and offline.
As from all i'm reading you are holding a grudge against Sega for its past neglection. And for one person who is saying not be pro-Sony you sure seem to be defending them quite a lot by contesting everything said about them.
As you called me "fanboy" I will give you what you so much crave: knowledge.
" DVD is an optical disc storage format, invented and developed by Philips, Sony, Toshiba, and Panasonic in 1995. DVDs offer higher storage capacity than compact discs while having the same dimensions.
Philips and Sony decided that it was in their best interests to avoid another format war over their Multimedia Compact Disc, and agreed to unify with companies backing the Super Density Disc to release a single format, with technologies from both. After other compromises between MMCD and SD, the computer companies through TWG won the day, and a single format, now called DVD, was agreed upon. The TWG also collaborated with the Optical Storage Technology Association (OSTA) on the use of their implementation of the ISO-13346 file system (known as Universal Disk Format) for use on the new DVDs.
The DVD Forum is an international organization composed of hardware, software, media and content companies that use and develop the DVD and formerly HD DVD formats. It was initially known as the DVD Consortium when it was founded in 1995.
Founding members : Hitachi, Matsushita, Mitsubishi, Pionneer, Phillips, Sony Corporation, Thomson, Time Warner, Toshiba, JVC.
source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_Storage_Technology_Association
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_Forum "
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DVD is an optical disc storage format, invented and developed by Philips, Sony, Toshiba, and Panasonic in 1995. DVDs offer higher storage capacity than compact discs while having the same dimensions.
SONY and Philips came up with their own DVD it was called and know has the HDCD (High Def CD) Toshiba,Panasonic and Time Warner came up with the Super-Density disc and that was the format that won the day . So SONY lost out in that war and did not invent the DVD (that we use today) they just agreed to join that camp.
As you called me "fanboy" I will give you what you so much crave: knowledge
Well then that knowledge should also tell you that SEGA has bullied other smaller corps, that it's been fined for pricing fixing, that SEGA done time deals and tried to sign exclusives, used fake demo's over played tech spec's and all the other things you like to bash SONY with and then more to the point that knowledge should tell you that SEGA did more damage to its self with the its terrible handling of 32 bit transition - that cost it Market share, image, 3rd parties and consumers and it never really recovered from that.
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I think that's the first time im hearing what you are saying about HD-DVD being punished. It doesn't even seems far-fetched, so it must be true to some(if not a high) degree. There were some dirty games being played behind closed doors.
Yes, it was part of it. HD-DVD was so easy to crack by Pirates that Sony fed them that line about Blu Ray being almost impossible to crack. And of course it was really an under handed way to screw M$.
The PS1 was actually a project ordered by Nintendo. But it seems Nintendo was very unhappy about the final product and rejected it. This has to mean something?
They rejected it because Sony apparently gave them a deal that no sensible company would accept. IE the bulk of the profits would go towards Sony rather than Nintendo. That's the reason why they walked away from it.
So, what does one do when one has a product that the orginal buyer doesn't want anymore? Surely Sega wouldn't want it. So they did the only thing they could do in order to make profit. Selling it under their own brand.
And as they didnt even know where to start, they turned to Sega for inspiration as Sega was pioneering what was called Virtual Reality at that time. True story by the way, you can find an official Sony statement about that.
You mean the 3d model games. no one was calling it virtual reality back then. Sony effectivly learned a lot from sega. Remember they were Sega CD's number one CD third party and they and sega collaborated on a lot of Sega CD games mainly the FMV stuff.
Sony really played all its cards in order to make its console take-off. It even started thinking outside of the box, using its know-how and started combining elements that were absolutely not done before. In a time when Sega and Nintendo used the technology that was currently available on the market, Sony totally fabricated a new one, which even became the new standard, to sell its console. While Sega's GD-Rom, a proprietary 1GB disc, was a great invention for the gaming world. The ingenius invention of the DVD; which is actually a mass-market product, totally blew it away.
Sony knew what the market wanted and the others didn't. Sega didn't realise that their model 1 and 2 games were want people wanted from the next system and sega created a system that didn't take 3D into proper account.
To me Sega products, and Nintendo even more, are high quality and durable products. Though the fact that did Sega introduce the world to the concept of "facelift to consoles". It was doing it in order to reduce production costs. We all know that the new competitors are doing it aswell, but this didnt happen in the same timeframe. The exception to the rule is that even before the facelift(s), Sega's products were still flawless and of high and durable quality.
exactly.
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Yes, it was part of it. HD-DVD was so easy to crack by Pirates that Sony fed them that line about Blu Ray being almost impossible to crack
C'Mon that is not the real reason and how many HD DVD burners did you see ?. What killed HD-DVD was the lack of backing from some of the studios like Disney and SONY making sure the PS3 would have BluRay. That's what cost Toshiba and it's a shame as HD DVD was a great format.
They rejected it because Sony apparently gave them a deal that no sensible company would accept.
Partly but then that they were 2 Playstaion products has part of the deal and in the end Nintendo just wanted companies to pay it for the media rather than paying for CD's .
You mean the 3d model games. no one was calling it virtual reality back then
Well I hope so as it was in fact a UK Corp that was trying to pioneer Virtual Reality . I'm sure SEGA invested million into the corp at one stage too.
Sega didn't realise that their model 1 and 2 games were want people wanted from the next system and sega created a system that didn't take 3D into proper account.
SEGA did . In fact in many ways the Saturn is like Model 1 and 2 (in some area's)
exactly.
Not quite - The Model 1 Mega CD was prone to lasers failing and at times the system not booting up at all. The DC had issues with resting due to dust on the PSU and the Japanese units were prone to scratching discs and the shoulder buttons on the pad being broken .
Saturn, Mega Drive and Master System were pretty much bullet proof granted
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C'Mon that is not the real reason and how many HD DVD burners did you see ?. What killed HD-DVD was the lack of backing from some of the studios like Disney and SONY making sure the PS3 would have BluRay. That's what cost Toshiba and it's a shame as HD DVD was a great format.
A: No one said it was the main reason but it was part of the reason.
B:Second We have already mentioned why HD DVD failed. We were talking about the reason why those companies decided to back blu Ray. Now if you take off your corporate zealot sony glasses off for one second you can plainly see that.
Partly but then that they were 2 Playstaion products has part of the deal and in the end Nintendo just wanted companies to pay it for the media rather than paying for CD's .
Already said that. Under unacceptable deal.
Well I hope so as it was in fact a UK Corp that was trying to pioneer Virtual Reality . I'm sure SEGA invested million into the corp at one stage too.
What do you mean you hope so? Weren't you there? Virtual reality was a complete different beast and no one confused Sega's model 1 games as being Virtual reality even though games like VIRTUA RACING took bits to emulate a virtual reality experience like the V.R view. Sega realised that no one wanted to put on a pair of glasses to do it.
SEGA did . In fact in many ways the Saturn is like Model 1 and 2 (in some area's)
The saturn's real strengh was in 2D and not 3d it wasn't a true model1/2 based platform or the games would have looked a lot better. Unlike the DC titles which looked flawless with their arcade ports.
Not quite - The Model 1 Mega CD was prone to lasers failing and at times the system not booting up at all. The DC had issues with resting due to dust on the PSU and the Japanese units were prone to scratching discs and the shoulder buttons on the pad being broken .
So what? Minor in comparison to what happened with the PSX and PS2 and you know it. S*ny built their systems to be flimsy and break down at the slightest thing. You can't accuse of sega of being like that. or nintendo for that matter. So using minor examples to make it look sega are just as bad as sony is stupid at best when Sony history of breakdowns and ratio of breakdowns is higher than any company in history.And that wasn't due to how many sold that made the ratio higher either but due to the product being unsound. especially since the same thing was repeated with the PS2 and that was a flimsy product if ever there was on. Unacceptable across the board.
Saturn, Mega Drive and Master System were pretty much bullet proof granted
GG was durable too.
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What do you mean you hope so?
That Salsatuna was on about Model 1 and 2 games when talking about VR.
Sega realised that no one wanted to put on a pair of glasses to do it.
Yes but sadly SEGA wasted ten or so millions with uk Virtuality .
The saturn's real strengh was in 2D and not 3d it wasn't a true model1/2 based platform or the games would have looked a lot better
Coupel of facts - Model 1/2 didn't have hardware support for 3D transparent effects (just like the Saturn) they both used Quads (just like the Saturn). Modle 1 like the Saturn used seqential processing and a number of DSP and co-processors to handle the data - very much like the Saturn. But with the Saturn being just a single home platform it had to be able to handle both 3D and 2D .
Unlike the myths the Saturn was very good at 3D and could handle a fair number of polygons
Unlike the DC titles which looked flawless with their arcade ports.
Nope - Virtual Fighter 3 isn't perfect, Sega Rally 2 is a million miles off being perfect , Fighter Vipers 2 isn't perfect . Also unlike the Saturn the DC launched some 2 years latter than Model 3 and yet in some key area's wasn't quite as powerful .
NA@MI ports of coruse were perfect just like ST-V to the Saturn.
So what? Minor in comparison to what happened with the PSX and PS2 and you know it
Minor only because the PS and PS2 sold in vastly more numbers . That doesn't change the fact that some of SEGA own hardware had issues .
sony is stupid at best when Sony history of breakdowns and ratio of breakdowns is higher than any company in history
No I think MS with the old 360 takes that record .
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That Salsatuna was on about Model 1 and 2 games when talking about VR.
Read your own posts......
Review the quote and response to it
You mean the 3d model games. no one was calling it virtual reality back
then
Well I hope so as it was in fact a UK Corp that was trying to pioneer Virtual Reality . I'm sure SEGA invested million into the corp at one stage too.
Less confusing isn't it.
Coupel of facts - Model 1/2 didn't have hardware support for 3D transparent effects (just like the Saturn) they both used Quads (just like the Saturn). Modle 1 like the Saturn used seqential processing and a number of DSP and co-processors to handle the data - very much like the Saturn. But with the Saturn being just a single home platform it had to be able to handle both 3D and 2D .
And it didn't do 3D well which is why many assume the 3D processor was an afterthought although that is a myth.
Unlike the myths the Saturn was very good at 3D and could handle a fair number of polygons
Not as well as the PSX
Nope - Virtual Fighter 3 isn't perfect, Sega Rally 2 is a million miles off being perfect , Fighter Vipers 2 isn't perfect . Also unlike the Saturn the DC launched some 2 years latter than Model 3 and yet in some key area's wasn't quite as powerful .
VF3 was a shitty port by a shitty company called Genki, SR2 was ok considering the game was ok but most ports for DC was more than fitting.
NA@MI ports of coruse were perfect just like ST-V to the Saturn.
Said that already but it helps when the console are based off that boards respectivly.
Minor only because the PS and PS2 sold in vastly more numbers . That doesn't change the fact that some of SEGA own hardware had issues .
Wrong. Geez can't use your own imagination can you? You have to use exactly what i said when that was not a factor and you know it. when you have reports of people had to replace about three PSX's before they had one that worked or lasted longer. The same goes with the PS2. This is all estabilshed fact which everyone knows about. I'm not going
No I think MS with the old 360 takes that record
Wrong again.
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And it didn't do 3D well which is why many assume the 3D processor was an afterthought although that is a myth
They changed to the SH-2 happened before anyone knew of the PS. Sure some may say that adding a 2nd SH-2 was done to try and beat or at least Sony . And I'm sorry the Saturn could do handle 3D and handle it well - Just play games like Sega Rally, Virtual Cop , Daytona USA CCE , Quake, Tomb Raider to see decent 3D and all done with the Saturn VDP 1 .
Sure the PS could do better 3D , but the Saturn was more than able to do very decent 3D and when one used the VDP 2 you could have 3D and effects that the PS would find hard to hard to handle like with Gradnia, Dark Savour, Decatlete , VF 2, RSG, Saga and so on.
Not as well as the PSX
In most cases yes, but the Saturn could still handle very decent 3D.
VF3 was a shitty port by a shitty company called Genki
Try no . VF 3 on the DC used around 95% of the Arcade total polygons , but Genki had little time and were working on new hardware . And btw Genki are not shit at all- They were made up of mainly ex AM#2 staff and the team was personally hand picked by Yu Suzuki to handle the port of VF 3Tb .
And they also did great work on the port of Get Bass, Daytona USA 2001 and Virtual Striker 2001 for the DC .
SR2 was ok considering the game was ok but most ports for DC was more than fitting
Not quite flawless conversions though .
when you have reports of people had to replace about three PSX's before they had one that worked or lasted longer
Again given the sucess of those products more people used and played those systems . Mega Cd Model 1 wasn't pefect and had massive issues with lens - where even development systems would fail.
Wrong again.
No way . The launch 360 console is without any doubt the most unreliable console ever made in the history of consoles bar none
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It seems that we are going deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole! ;)
Now, i don't get why people just assume that the Saturn couldn't handle 3D well, or couldn't handle it as good as the PS.
We all know that the Saturn's commercial lifespan was less longer than the PS and we also know that the Saturn was quite complex in architecture.
Here you have two reasons why the Saturn couldn't handle 3D well. If you take in consideration the complexity of the architecture and you expand on that thought, which i'm going to do right now.
It basicly means that developpers didn't understand squidly squat about the saturn. in other words they were too eager to make fast money, and didnt gave it a chance.
"So, oh crap, we need to think too much on this system, oh well let's blame the architecture."
The Saturn had two processors to handle the graphics so it was capable of quite a lot of things, when put into the hands of competent developpers. But in order to make quality games, a lot of time and effort are needed. And as a war was raging, time was a bit of a luxury.
The Saturn did indeed use quadrilaterals instead of triangles. But as both consoles were showing what is called texture warping, those quads were really an advantage. It was also very much capable of producing lighting.
Its "crème de la crème" was going to be "Shenmue". But as the war kept on raging it went to the DC.
But you can still admire what could have been:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foZUcPQAMvg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foZUcPQAMvg)
Surely, after seeing that, one cannot say that the saturn couldn't handle 3D.
Also, have a look a this page here beneath, it is explaining a lot about the specs and how the Saturn handle things and the misconception(s) about it.
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/SATPScompare.htm (http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/SATPScompare.htm)
Please don't look at this as a "Saturn was better than PS" but more as "Saturn was extremeley underestimated".
As for the Xbox360 has had the most failures in history. I would say that Xbox360 had the most of mediatised interest in regard to the failures.
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Now, i don't get why people just assume that the Saturn couldn't handle 3D well, or couldn't handle it as good as the PS.
To be fair, its the same deal with the PS and 2D - Where a lot of people think it can't do 2D , when it can and do it very well just not as good as the Saturn . The Saturn was in the same boat but for 3D and while it can do nice 3D it can't do it has good as the PS
It basicly means that developpers didn't understand squidly squat about the saturn. in other words they were too eager to make fast money, and didnt gave it a chance.
To be fair you can't blame some developers for going with SONY (more so after the great sales) SEGA should have done some things better with the Saturn (3d transparent effects for 1) but also its launch tools were poor and that should have been handled better and the likes of Clockwork Knight and Daytona USA should never have been rushed out (that did a lot to hurt Saturn image) .
The big trouble for the Saturn was everyone was getting used to C and PC development and the Saturn needed Assembly code to get the best out of the system, but that was never going to happen when the PS became the development lead platform for games
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To be fair, its the same deal with the PS and 2D - Where a lot of people think it can't do 2D , when it can and do it very well just not as good as the Saturn . The Saturn was in the same boat but for 3D and while it can do nice 3D it can't do it has good as the PS
To be fair you can't blame some developers for going with SONY (more so after the great sales) SEGA should have done some things better with the Saturn (3d transparent effects for 1) but also its launch tools were poor and that should have been handled better and the likes of Clockwork Knight and Daytona USA should never have been rushed out (that did a lot to hurt Saturn image) .
The big trouble for the Saturn was everyone was getting used to C and PC development and the Saturn needed Assembly code to get the best out of the system, but that was never going to happen when the PS became the development lead platform for games
I have developped an aversion for any Sony filled content. I am reaching overdose status.
"Imatitation is the sincerest form of flatery" .
The Sony's consoles are'nt just that good, people were filled with lies and all was very much overhyped. The first PS was just sub-par compared to the Saturn.
As i see it, Sega is a traditional company. See it as a classic tailor, were you go if you want to have a custom made suit. While Sony is a "prêt à porter" multinational.
Yes, Sega made mistakes in the past. Yes, not all Sega machines were 100% flawless as some had minor flaws so it didn't reach the perfection status. Yes, Sega, Markteting machine sucks and blows at the same time. Sega was like the single parent, who had to manage a painful divorce with 3 kids to feed.
Now, that last was a(lso a) metaphore.
Sega had so much fame, that it became a target. That's what happens when one is famous. Others get jealous.
A whole lot, if not the majority is based on lies and rumors, just to make it fail. Now, why would someone want that??? Who has to gain from it?
Yes, Sega, abandonned the Mega CD. Yes Sega abandonned its 32X. Yes, Sega abandonned its Saturn, a decent well built powerful, 32-bit machine. Yes, we can all keep holding to our grudges even 10 to 20 years later, and in doing so we are forced to buy sub-par consoles.
As for the MEGA-CD, many think it was a flop. Well history doesnt see it that way. History remembers it as the best selling peripheral based on the CD tech.
For the 32x, well everyone had the impression it was too expensive. Maybe it was. That there were not enough games for it. What should Sega do in that case?Kkeep making games in the hope that people will grow some brains? Sega did the only thing it could do. That's what happens when people doesn't buy your products.
The Saturn was victim of a lot things: competition, false rumors, misconceptions, fabricated lies, ...
Sega was a bit powerless against all that, it didnt understand where it was coming from. What does one do in that case?
Nowadays , we know what to do --> Public Relations . But even at that point there was too much negativity. So, I hardly doubt it would have matter.
The PS had a lot a consoles that just broke. That was the case with the PS2 aswell. While teh Xbox and the Xbox360 too had its fails, Microsoft did provide something that the others just didn't do: a 2year Warranty. Everything was covered in that warranty in regards to failures, while Sony just didn't do that. And i as i've mentionned before aftersales was still delivered to consoles outide of the warranty. It sure didn't cost you the price of a new console.
Sony was never punished for its failures. It even had (and still has) the public opinion behind it. Nothing related to the failures has ever been documented. Which is very strange. While there was and is an outcry if Sega and Microsoft even "farted" .
All this disgust me, it disgusts me to the very core of my being.
But, as we are still talking about the Sega consoles after all those years. It surely has to mean something. History remembers only the brave. And maybe one day Sega will be treated as it should. And that others will be punished for their sins.
“It is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.” Herman Melville
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I never said I like Microsoft but I said that I chose Microsoft over Sony. For obvious reasons. To be honest, Sega was the last brand I felt associated with. Evenmore, I do not identify myself with a brand. I buy something because of its quality and the purpose of it. Sega made quality products regardless of their marketing strategy.
Pretty much where I'm coming from. From Genesis through to Dreamcast, getting a new SEGA console and playing great games from them brought warm feelings to my heart. It sounds cheesy, but I'm certain you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Since the Dreamcast, there has not been a single piece of hardware that gave me that same feeling. I know it's not pure nostalgia, because I felt an association with SEGA's hardware even when it was brand new out of the box on release day.
Post-DC I went with the Xbox. I fucking hated Sony, and while I wasn't in love with MS I did respect that they were never in direct competition with SEGA. In fact, they won extra points for their controller design mimicking the Dreamcast controller, the fact that the Dreamcast had a Windows logo, and that Orta, JSRF, Crazy Taxi 3 and HotD III were all "Only On XBOX". In fact... all but HotD III still are!
Now I know a few of those things can easily be disputed as not meaning much, such as the Windows logo, but from a heart perspective it hurt like hell when the Dreamcast died, so as a SEGA fan I'd take any little bit of solace I could. Even if it was from a small SEGA/Microsoft connection.
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I'm well aware that things have since changed. PS4, as much as I don't openly admit it, is doing a better job than the Xbox One. However, seeing as how I'm a SEGA fan first and hardly a Nintendo/Sony/MS fan, I really don't give a rats ass if Xbox One makes a 180 or if PS4 does some stupid "omglolrofl look theyre appealing to da gamerz wit dat funny tweet!" or Nintendo sells more or less Wii U's one month than they do another.
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Pretty much where I'm coming from. From Genesis through to Dreamcast, getting a new SEGA console and playing great games from them brought warm feelings to my heart. It sounds cheesy, but I'm certain you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Since the Dreamcast, there has not been a single piece of hardware that gave me that same feeling. I know it's not pure nostalgia, because I felt an association with SEGA's hardware even when it was brand new out of the box on release day.
Post-DC I went with the Xbox. I fucking hated Sony, and while I wasn't in love with MS I did respect that they were never in direct competition with SEGA. In fact, they won extra points for their controller design mimicking the Dreamcast controller, the fact that the Dreamcast had a Windows logo, and that Orta, JSRF, Crazy Taxi 3 and HotD III were all "Only On XBOX". In fact... all but HotD III still are!
Now I know a few of those things can easily be disputed as not meaning much, such as the Windows logo, but from a heart perspective it hurt like hell when the Dreamcast died, so as a SEGA fan I'd take any little bit of solace I could. Even if it was from a small SEGA/Microsoft connection.
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I'm well aware that things have since changed. PS4, as much as I don't openly admit it, is doing a better job than the Xbox One. However, seeing as how I'm a SEGA fan first and hardly a Nintendo/Sony/MS fan, I really don't give a rats ass if Xbox One makes a 180 or if PS4 does some stupid "omglolrofl look theyre appealing to da gamerz wit dat funny tweet!" or Nintendo sells more or less Wii U's one month than they do another.
I know what you mean. Whenever I think of the Dreamcast, It brings up so much nostalgia. Every game i played was just fun. A very satisfying kind of fun. Something unreal. Maybe it was because the Dreamcast brought us to the next level. With its "Bing" videos, QTE's , VMU's, ....
When I think of the DC, i think of 2 games in particular, those two showed the potential and the uniqueness of the console.
The 1st one is Shenmue2, more so than Shenmue1, this game didn't feel like a game. I was personnaly invested into what was happening to Ryo. That game just oozes "epicness". This is the kind of game, that when you pick it up, and when you have the required IQ level to play it, you know you are going away on a voyage, an adventure. You know that you are going to do great things.
In our modern day, i had an almost similiar experience with "The Witcher2".
The 2nd game is, Ecco the Dolphin. Though being a Dolphin is quite an abstract thought. The developpers succeeded into creating a very believable world and an even more amazing story. They even managed to add Time-travelling to it, which is something very complex to do, and it stuck.
I even felt anger and sadness, when i saw the polution and the trapped dolphins. Everything that was happening, was really weighing on my conscience.
As for the Xbox, yes me too i found solace with games as JSRF, it is still a great game, huge game, one that i havent even finished yet. Even Gunvalkyrie i liked. though the game was short.
But in your list you forgot to mention ---> Shenmue2 (and 1 as a film).
As I played the game, a game that didn't looked as crisp as on the DC, I started to feel a void. Like something was yet familiar, but off. And it wasn't the English Dub.
It was only when i got to the Dojo, where Xiujing Hong (http://www.giantbomb.com/xiuying-hong/3005-1820/ (http://www.giantbomb.com/xiuying-hong/3005-1820/) )was going to teach me (Ryo)some new trick, that it hit me.
I was looking down on my xbox controller to see the directions of that new combat move on the VMU screen!?
That moment was like having an epiphany. As it was then, that I have realized what we all have lost...
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I never really felt "love" for a console to be honest.
Although I think the DS Lite is the best looking console I've ever owned, I don't associate myself with loving a console in terms of design really. I see it for playing games, and that's what SEGA are excellent at!
Even when I bought a Playstation 3, I associate Valkyria Chronicles with it, as it really did stand out for me.
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The Dreamcast design is beautiful, I definitely fell in love* with it. Still love it.
*I should note, this is not love in the same way as loving a person. I mean it like "loving" a movie or "loving" a city you live in.
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The PS had a lot a consoles that just broke. That was the case with the PS2 aswell. While teh Xbox and the Xbox360 too had its fails, Microsoft did provide something that the others just didn't do: a 2year Warranty. Everything was covered in that warranty in regards to failures, while Sony just didn't do that. And i as i've mentionned before aftersales was still delivered to consoles outide of the warranty. It sure didn't cost you the price of a new console.
Sony was never punished for its failures. It even had (and still has) the public opinion behind it. Nothing related to the failures has ever been documented. Which is very strange. While there was and is an outcry if Sega and Microsoft even "farted" .
Exactly, the flaws with sega systems and even everyone else's systems can be expected flaws when dealing with electronic equipment. But the Sony flaws was ridiculous and over the top and still is the highest in gaming history. The 360 failure rate is the highest for the current generation but that is insignificant compared to the PSX and PS2s that encounted problems and stopped working at a drop of a hat. This is a fact and there's no point of it being disputed no matter what sony PR spin, sony fan boys or sony apoligists like TA will have us believe.
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When the Dreamcast died, Arcades were dying out at the same time.
Personally I think it made sense. It was an end of an era.
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When the Dreamcast died, Arcades were dying out at the same time.
Personally I think it made sense. It was an end of an era.
I believe in this as well. The last arcade-based console.
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xactly, the flaws with sega systems and even everyone else's systems can be expected flaws when dealing with electronic equipment. But the Sony flaws was ridiculous and over the top and still is the highest in gaming history. The 360 failure rate is the highest for the current generation but that is insignificant compared to the PSX and PS2s that encountered problems and stopped working at a drop of a hat. This is a fact and there's no point of it being disputed no matter what sony PR spin, sony fan boys or sony apoligists like TA will have us believe.
It's quite funny to see you 'try' and be one of the SEGA gang and have a bash at SONY; I wouldn't say too much but you're always the one since the XBox days, saying SEGA should always be with SONY, The XBox isn't that great and so on.Some of us have been XBots from day one but overlooking that fun bit of hypocrisy.... I would just point out a few things ...
XBox Thomson drive was every bit as bad as the poor lens inside the PS and sure the PS2 had issues but fixing an out-of-aligned lens is a hell of a lot easier than the terminal TROD of death.
I'll have a bet now that there's far more working launch PS and PS2 still to this day, than they are launch 360 consoles
The last arcade-based console.
The DC in fact, marked the dawn when SEGA used console powered hardware for the Arcades
In fact, they won extra points for their controller design mimicking the Dreamcast controller, the fact that the Dreamcast had a Windows logo, and that Orta, JSRF, Crazy Taxi 3 and HotD III were all "Only On XBOX". In fact... all but HotD III still are!
The XBox was DC mark II in all but name and still the console that's got the best out of SEGA since they went 3rd party . Not only were games like Orta, JSRF, SEGA 2001 amazing games , they were graphically up there with anything else around .
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The DC in fact, marked the dawn when SEGA used console powered hardware for the Arcades
Which is why I'm annoyed at current Sega not bringing out more out of their Arcade heritage, when post 2000, all the consoles were powerful enough to do Arcade perfect ports of their stuff. Ports once every blue moon is too little.
The XBox was DC mark II in all but name and still the console that's got the best out of SEGA since they went 3rd party . Not only were games like Orta, JSRF, SEGA 2001 amazing games , they were graphically up there with anything else around .
I'd say the PS2 was Saturn Mark II, with Virtua Fighter, the Sega Ages series (+Nights Remake), Sakura Wars, Sega Rally 2006 etc.
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Which is why I'm annoyed at current Sega not bringing out more out of their Arcade heritage, when post 2000, all the consoles were powerful enough to do Arcade perfect ports of their stuff
Yep spot on
I'd say the PS2 was Saturn Mark II, with Virtua Fighter, the Sega Ages series (+Nights Remake), Sakura Wars, Sega Rally 2006 etc
Well I wouldn't agree with you so much there , but I would say the PS2 was a Saturn mark 2 in terms of having a difficult development environment, poor launch tools, costly development kits and not being great at using C+ or PC code :) .
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The Dreamcast design is beautiful, I definitely fell in love* with it. Still love it.
*I should note, this is not love in the same way as loving a person. I mean it like "loving" a movie or "loving" a city you live in.
I admire many consoles designs and appearances for sure, but I am not really into technology as much as I'd hoped.
I understood your meaning of love for the consoles. Sadly I don't like where I live, lol.
However, I do love SEGA in that way, but mostly for their franchises and universes in their games.
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I really like the design of the Dreamcast itself, but I was disappointed that they broke from their prior color scheme (at least in the West) of black consoles. Of course, nowadays almost all consoles are black, but it was more of a defining characteristic of Sega consoles back in the day.
When I recently got a Dreamcast, I opted for the black Sega Sports edition so my collection of Sega consoles will look more consistent. Also, I sidestep the issue of nasty yellowing that happens to light-colored plastic over the years.
There was a special edition black Dreamcast that came out in Japan without the Sega Sports logo, and it looks fantastic, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it selling for $1000 or more these days. I can live with the logo, as the Sega Sports editions are pretty plentiful and usually only about $20 more than a regular DC.
One thing I personally don't like on the DC is the Windows logo. I don't consider MS to be a friend of Sega at all -- more like they were mildly parasitic.
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It's quite funny to see you 'try' and be one of the SEGA gang and have a bash at SONY; I wouldn't say too much but you're always the one since the XBox days, saying SEGA should always be with SONY, The XBox isn't that great and so on.Some of us have been XBots from day one but overlooking that fun bit of hypocrisy.... I would just point out a few things ...
My views on sony has always been clear. Obviously still sore that i proved you wrong that sega games didn't sell well on the xbox compared to game cube and Ps2? Which was always what i said. And i always said that sega should create more exclusives to platforms and not go multiplatform.And still i'm correct on that since we have seen how MP has worked for them. I've always been true blue. I dont need to lie about others not being so. But since you think that a SNES is better than an MD and that sony didn't do anything wrong during the DC era goes to show who is and isn't part of the sega gang.And that use of term is laughable in itself because all you've done as usual is derail a nice thread and tried to blacken Sega's name as usal. Not bad for someone whose faverite system is the system with the least sega made games on it.
XBox Thomson drive was every bit as bad as the poor lens inside the PS and sure the PS2 had issues but fixing an out-of-aligned lens is a hell of a lot easier than the terminal TROD of death.
I'll have a bet now that there's far more working launch PS and PS2 still to this day, than they are launch 360 consoles
You can bet but you are wrong and you know it. Why are you defending such a piutyiful machine? why do you attack sega fans who state what sony did wrong? If you prefer sony then why do you even come here?
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My views on sony has always been clear.
Really on the one hand you like to bash them to be part of the SEGA gang and then on the other say SEGA should only make games for SONY. Any so called SEGA fan wouldn't want SEGA ever to work with SONY on any system and hate everything to do with SONY ;) :P.
And still i'm correct on that since we have seen how MP has worked for them
Yes we've seen SEGA become even less of a player in the console market.
But since you think that a SNES is better than an MD and that sony didn't do anything wrong during the DC era goes to show who is and isn't part of the sega gang
Lol and you love to bash the Saturn . Snes did imo have better games than the MD and no I'll just point out that SEGA did plenty wrong with the DC and SEGA too had played the timed and lock out game
deals ...
Why are you defending such a piutyiful machine?
I'm not . It had a shit lens , but then so did XBox (before the Samsung, Philips and Hitachi drives came online) The 360 on the other hand was utter junk as soon as you had the TROD .
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Somehow SONY executing the same strategy it applied when it was competing with SEGA. That company just like to give low-blows.
It likes to kick someone when that one is down. Or it will try put someone down so it can kick it.
Somehow, I don't recollect any company attacking SONY. But SONY just keeps doing it. And in doing so it even gains respect. How twisted is that?
SONY, seems to dislikes Microsoft, a lot.It's either that or they don't accept competition at all.
They proved it by killing the HD-DVD. And now it's trying to kill the XboxOne. In a way it indirectly hit Microsoft by killing the DC.
What I find very weird, is that when all those "misconceptions" (you guys remember that word?) concerning the XboxOne went around the world. Sony crybabies were the first one to make, rather aggressive, comments.
It makes me wonder...
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Really on the one hand you like to bash them to be part of the SEGA gang and then on the other say SEGA should only make games for SONY. Any so called SEGA fan wouldn't want SEGA ever to work with SONY on any system and hate everything to do with SONY ;) :P.
No because i'm a realist. And Sega needs money like everyone else. And whatever i like it or not Sega has made more money on Sony and Nintendo systems compared to their xbox systems. So don't bother to twist my words mate. For someone going on about being a bonafide fan all you've done is bash sega in favor of S*ny.
Yes we've seen SEGA become even less of a player in the console market.
Yet you kept saying MP is the way to go MP this MP that. Without taking into consideration that they tried that before in the sixth generation of game systems, things got fucked up, major games didn't happen, they regrouped tried it again for the current gen and it still got fucked up. And the games that were succesful on a MP basis: the sony or nintendo sales had higher percentages. The only thing i will say is Sega needs to look at a game and consider should this be an MP game or not? VANQUISH should have never been an MP title because the 360 had more TPS games on it than the PS3. The same goes for BD but that was hampered by marketing. And Sega should focus on what they use to make create a game that appeals to everyone, not a japanese focused title like YAKUZA or a western focus title like BD but a game that has international appeal and make them MP. If Sega wants to continue on market specific titles then they should create titles that do that but specifically release them on the platforms that are popular on that market. A western focused game that only has western sensibilities should be released only on a xbox system and japanese style games only on PS3. Then you would have a reasonable balance.
Lol and you love to bash the Saturn . Snes did imo have better games than the MD and no I'll just point out that SEGA did plenty wrong with the DC and SEGA too had played the timed and lock out game
deals ...
No it didn't have better games. And that's the problem with you. When someone who is meant to be a sega fan says that every single snes game was better than a sega genesis game, i take issue with it and question their autheticy. And i don't bash the Saturn i bash the people who fucked up its chances. SOJ and Bernie solar. m not . It had a shit lens , but then so did XBox (before the Samsung, Philips and Hitachi drives came online) The 360 on the other hand was utter junk as soon as you had the TROD .
Sorry but if you add the number of the PS1 and PS2 compared to Microsoft's xbox and 360 breakdowns, they pale in comparison compared to Sony's record. And that whether you like it or not is a fact.No matter what your freinds at sony have you believe.
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No because i'm a realist. And Sega needs money like everyone else.
Don't play the money game . You can't one hand bash SONY to look good along with the rest of the SEGA gang and they say oh SONY is great for sales and SEGA should work with them.
Yet you kept saying MP is the way to go MP this MP that
SEGA Japan isn't multiplatform . It's miles behind the likes of Ubisoft, Capcom and the like; where their Big games are multiplatform and on out multi systems on the same day
The same goes for BD but that was hampered by marketing
It was a new IP launched near the end of the console cycle - A terrible time to launch a new IP and then to try and launch it with no major PR push was asking for epic fail.
When someone who is meant to be a sega fan says that every single snes game was better than a sega genesis game,
Never said 'every'.just the better AAA games - Super Metroid, Castlevania IV and Mario IV were gaming perfection in my eyes's That said my choice systems are the Saturn and Mega CD (which I rated more than the Snes btw) - its always about the games I've enjoyed the most on any said system .
When someone who is meant to be a sega fan says that every single snes game was better than a sega genesis game, i take issue with it
To that I would say grow up and get a life . I may love and support Ferrari in F1, but RedBull is just the better team with the better car at the moment . No harm is support a team, but prasing rivals when they do things better
but if you add the number of the PS1 and PS2 compared to Microsoft's xbox and 360 breakdowns
360 was the most unreliable console know to man , before MS changed the motherboard and GPU issues . My brothers Jp Import PS2 still works , good luck trying to find someone with a launch 360 that works ;):P
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Don't play the money game . You can't one hand bash SONY to look good along with the rest of the SEGA gang and they say oh SONY is great for sales and SEGA should work with them.
I dont play games, games are for kids. I've always said that about Sony and Nintendo and Xbox games not making any money. I don't and never have bashed Microsoft on their games but i've certainly done it with Sony and nintendo. You're just miffed because you've been shown up, attacking sega fans for attacking Sony. Something that any sega fan wouldn't do.
SEGA Japan isn't multiplatform . It's miles behind the likes of Ubisoft, Capcom and the like; where their Big games are multiplatform and on out multi systems on the same day
They tried it didn't work did it so keep clinging onto this stupid notion about being like this company or that company. I perfer my company to be like sega. You however want them to be anything but sega. and you claim to be part of the sega gang as you put it.
It was a new IP launched near the end of the console cycle - A terrible time to launch a new IP and then to try and launch it with no major PR push was asking for epic fail.
I said that under marketing, dont need to repeat it.
Never said 'every'.just the better AAA games - Super Metroid, Castlevania IV and Mario IV were gaming perfection in my eyes's That said my choice systems are the Saturn and Mega CD (which I rated more than the Snes btw) - its always about the games I've enjoyed the most on any said system .
No you didn't you said everygame. and you got the gall to say i'm trying to fit in when you clearly think SNES was a better system. No true blue sega fan would ever say that.
To that I would say grow up and get a life . I may love and support Ferrari in F1, but RedBull is just the better team with the better car at the moment . No harm is support a team, but prasing rivals when they do things better
They didn't do better. some games were good on SNES some games were good on MD however the MD as a system and as far as games were miles better.
360 was the most unreliable console know to man , before MS changed the motherboard and GPU issues . My brothers Jp Import PS2 still works , good luck trying to find someone with a launch 360 that works ;):P
No its unreliable this generation not known to man. Keep spinning the Sony PR. however true fans of gaming won't be disauded from the fact that PS2 and PS1 were the most unreliable consoles ever made. But sure because you have a working model must mean EVERYSINGLE PS2 was perfect. That system alone had the highest record complaints about breakdowns in the history of console gaming. A fact my old mucker that you or sony can't change.
Funny how you have derailed the thread once again from talking anything other than a Sega system. strange....
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Somehow SONY executing the same strategy it applied when it was competing with SEGA. That company just like to give low-blows.
It likes to kick someone when that one is down. Or it will try put someone down so it can kick it.
Somehow, I don't recollect any company attacking SONY. But SONY just keeps doing it. And in doing so it even gains respect. How twisted is that?
SONY, seems to dislikes Microsoft, a lot.It's either that or they don't accept competition at all.
They proved it by killing the HD-DVD. And now it's trying to kill the XboxOne. In a way it indirectly hit Microsoft by killing the DC.
What I find very weird, is that when all those "misconceptions" (you guys remember that word?) concerning the XboxOne went around the world. Sony crybabies were the first one to make, rather aggressive, comments.
It makes me wonder...
Sony dislikes anyone that challenges them. The good thing about Xbox was it broke sony's hold over the industry and brought back the concept of REAL gaming. Which is probably why most of Sega's real game core titles like JSRF and ORTA was released on that system in the first place. It's too bad they failed.
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I dont play games, games are for kids.
Games are for all ages .
They tried it didn't work did it so keep clinging onto this stupid notion about being like this company or that company.
No SEGA never tried it at all . Val wasn't multi platform, VF 5 had a Huge cape , Yakuza isn't, even with Sonic its hit and miss Colour wasn't , Lost World isn't . Ubisoft and the like have all their major IP and all their huge AAA productions multi platform from day one .
No you didn't you said everygame
Nope . When it came to sports games the Mega Drive was far better.
No true blue sega fan would ever say that.
Its like being in school yard . Sorry while I'm SEGA all the way I did enjoy the Snes more than the Mega Drive.
. some games were good on SNES some games were good on MD however the MD as a system
Nothing on the Mega Drive really came close to the sheer perfection that was Super Metroid or Super Mario IV for me (Revenge of Shinobi was close) So I like the Snes more for nothing more than that . In just the same way, l because of the Lunar's , Batman Returns and Sensi I rated the Mega CD above the likes of Mega Drive or Snes .
SONY, seems to dislikes Microsoft, a lot.It's either that or they don't accept competition at all.
They proved it by killing the HD-DVD.
SONY will do what any corp does and try and look after its own interests. BTW HD DVD is nothing to do with MS - they just backed the Tech . If MS put their money and real backing behind the format and put the drive in has standard in the 360 then HD-DVD would still be a goer. You know MS has lost many a cort case over Windows and Apple is hardly best chums with Adobe .
All corps will after and try to protect their interest
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I just wanted to revive this thread. I know it has been a long time since people have posted in it. I just think that it was a good thread. I wanted to say that Sega could have survived, if they would have taken the money they had from Isao Okawa and combined it with money they had from another company. This means they should have combined their money with a company other than Sammy Holdings. Something larger like Microsoft. They were already stealing ideas from Sega, so why not Microsoft? It would be a bad idea for Sega to release a new console now. As for what they could have done though, that is just what I think.
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I know mr. Okawa did a good thing donating that huge amount of money but...
If he had that much money his paycheck was 'unfairly high' don't you guys agree ?
Anyway, indeed a new console would be something beyone Sega's proficiency but, what about a re-release of the DC?
Could that be sucessful with the right marketing ?
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I don't know if any of the indie developers who have recently released DC games have posted sales numbers, but personally I'd guess they sell a few thousand of each, maybe up to about 10,000. That's just my speculation, though. So I don't think if Sega re-released the DC that it would really be that successful... aside from fan interest, there's got to be some new angle that gets retailers interested in giving it shelf space. Ouya did a decent job of that aspect, but overall that project seems to have fizzled out a bit.
On the other hand, if Sega decided to release a Sega-branded Steam Machine, that would probably sell decently. It would appeal to folks who just want some Sega hardware that is also more or less up to current-gen specs.
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It would be difficult for Sega to release hardware and software right now. Sega could just keep uploading games from the Dreamcast on steam and iOS. I think that would make more sense as far as that goes.
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SEGA could easily do what they did in the past and have third party companies develop hardware. Only instead of just the Genesis with low quality sound, they could attempt a Genesis/32x combo or, my most wanted, a combination Game Gear & Master System console that allows you to play GG games on the TV. Disc based consoles would be awesome, but they're a ways off I think. A SEGA branded Steam Machine would be fantastic. Have notable SEGA hardware designers work with a third party to develop it, and offer a bundle of free games.
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SEGA could easily do what they did in the past and have third party companies develop hardware. Only instead of just the Genesis with low quality sound, they could attempt a Genesis/32x combo or, my most wanted, a combination Game Gear & Master System console that allows you to play GG games on the TV. Disc based consoles would be awesome, but they're a ways off I think. A SEGA branded Steam Machine would be fantastic. Have notable SEGA hardware designers work with a third party to develop it, and offer a bundle of free games.
They made a Genesis with built in games. They did not create new games nor did they allow actual Sega Genesis cartridges to work with it. I think Centrale wanted a Sega-branded Steam machine, which would not be a bad idea at all. Sega could compete with Amazon's Fire TV or Ouya's console if they wanted to.
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About an SEGA auyo console. If I can't play discs, and cartridges it is an computer, not a game system. You have to modify that thing to take game cartridges.
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You know why I am glad the Dream is dead? Because of censorship, that is why it had to die, to deliver us from censored bs. The Dream had to die so that we can live. The Dream is the resurrection of our wonderful savior.
Seriously if the Dream was alive right now, no telling what kind of rubbish would be on it. I mean like being sold in KB-toy store ( another scared place, that had to die ), unlike the empty horror that toys R' Us had to become.
But you know why the Dream is dead, as in undead? Because SEGA did not have Pokemon, or a bunch of wet panty Nintendo fans, nore they had the other Nintendo, SONY. Where FF7, MMX, and of course MGS. I don't even have to name those games, that is how powerful that line up is by itself. I could just say CAPCOM, Squaresoft, Konami, and everybody heads turned. Everything that made the Dreamcast unique has been down ported to other consoles, and these ports suck. Sega had the 1990 cheeze we all had been usted from going to Chucky Cheeze, Dragons Den, or Fairy Land.
I am kinda glad everybody, did drop SEGA like a bad habit, because without SONY all of those exclusives would probably be on the Dreamcast right now. Kids today are so cheap, they are not going to spend $90 on a game, they are going to spend $5 bucks for something that should cost $90. That is how cheap people are living in their imaginations.
Also my Saturn can play VCD2.0 out of the box, with no boot disc. Can my Dreamcast do that? NO. Poeple brought an PS2 to play dvds, not to play games. Buying a Dreamcast that can't play video at that point in time, was the end all of killers. It is an excuse that SEGA did not just go with the DVD-Roms. They could have even made fake Blu-rays like the WiiU is doing.
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I think SEGA made the most unique hardware, and left us with something to deal with. We should be thankful for their sacrifice. This I could just make a really powerful computer, and buy PC games I can hook up to my TV, instead. No more TV toys, I am a big kid now.
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They made a Genesis with built in games. They did not create new games nor did they allow actual Sega Genesis cartridges to work with it. I think Centrale wanted a Sega-branded Steam machine, which would not be a bad idea at all. Sega could compete with Amazon's Fire TV or Ouya's console if they wanted to.
The AtGames Genesis supports cartridges and has built in games as well.
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Games are for all ages .
Yes when you are a child aged between 1-15.
No SEGA never tried it at all . Val wasn't multi platform, VF 5 had a Huge cape , Yakuza isn't, even with Sonic its hit and miss Colour wasn't , Lost World isn't . Ubisoft and the like have all their major IP and all their huge AAA productions multi platform from day one .
Yes Sega did try. It failed. End of. Don't use a handful of titles to prove a point that you will eventually lose anyway.
Nope . When it came to sports games the Mega Drive was far better.
No, the megadrive was much better because it had more quality games than the SNES did. Not just the sports games which if we have to be petty the SNES had some of the same sports games that was avaliable on the MD. Better because despite it not matching the specs, the MD performed things that not even the BEST SNES game could emulate. There was room for improvision which the SNES didn't have.
Its like being in school yard . Sorry while I'm SEGA all the way I did enjoy the Snes more than the Mega Drive.
Why? Because i'm not pandering to the history of video games according to TA? Don't make me laugh.
Nothing on the Mega Drive really came close to the sheer perfection that was Super Metroid or Super Mario IV for me (Revenge of Shinobi was close) So I like the Snes more for nothing more than that . In just the same way, l because of the Lunar's , Batman Returns and Sensi I rated the Mega CD above the likes of Mega Drive or Snes .
I disagree. And so would most true blue Sega fans. Just because YOU enjoyed it doesn't make the game better than any game ever released on the Megadrive. That is a juvenile mentality.
SONY will do what any corp does and try and look after its own interests. BTW HD DVD is nothing to do with MS - they just backed the Tech . If MS put their money and real backing behind the format and put the drive in has standard in the 360 then HD-DVD would still be a goer. You know MS has lost many a cort case over Windows and Apple is hardly best chums with Adobe .
All corps will after and try to protect their interest
Which is why Sega stuck with Sony and Nintendo during those periods because they made more money than they did on Xbox. You see you get the point after all.
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SEGA could easily do what they did in the past and have third party companies develop hardware. Only instead of just the Genesis with low quality sound, they could attempt a Genesis/32x combo or, my most wanted, a combination Game Gear & Master System console that allows you to play GG games on the TV. Disc based consoles would be awesome, but they're a ways off I think. A SEGA branded Steam Machine would be fantastic. Have notable SEGA hardware designers work with a third party to develop it, and offer a bundle of free games.
We will see that on the day we see a crowdfunded SHENMUE 3 game. Corps are sometimes the last to see or apply a new method.
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Yes when you are a child aged between 1-15.
Well 1 to 3 years old you be pushing it .
Yes Sega did try. It failed
No it didn't . Val wasn't multiplatform, never was Yakuza , never is Sonic and now now neither is PSO II .
No, the megadrive was much better because it had more quality games than the SNES did.
In your opinion , other people will have different views and for some the likes of the PC-ENG would be better . Its all subjective.
the MD performed things that not even the BEST SNES game could emulate
And the same goes for some SNES games . There's nothing on the Mega Drive that comes close to Pioltwings for example . All consoles have their strong and minus points .
YOU enjoyed it doesn't make the game better than any game ever released on the Megadrive
Never said it did . I like the Snes more, because I enjoyed the games it had to offer more.
Which is why Sega stuck with Sony and Nintendo during those periods because they made more money than they did on Xbox.
Huh ? . I was just saying all corps will play dirty and look after their interests
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Well 1 to 3 years old you be pushing it .
Then stop acting like one then.
No it didn't . Val wasn't multiplatform, never was Yakuza , never is Sonic and now now neither is PSO II .
Really? You name only 4 titles. I can name at least ten that went MP. But keep using selective memory...
In your opinion , other people will have different views and for some the likes of the PC-ENG would be better . Its all subjective.
Its not my opinion its fact. PC ENgine was the big thing on the grey import scene but it died the death after the MD and Superfamicom took off.And the company couldn't retain it with a follow up. Saturn kinda took over that scene of HC gamers looking for something a bit more a few years later which was ironic really.
And the same goes for some SNES games . There's nothing on the Mega Drive that comes close to Pioltwings for example . All consoles have their strong and minus points .
Yes they do. But i'm not saying two games are better than an entire collection of games on a rival system. That's what you are saying.
Never said it did . I like the Snes more, because I enjoyed the games it had to offer more.
You kinda were saying that. personal tastes that's one thing but don't start making out Metroid was better than every Sega MD game ever released on the system and tout it as a fact. you remind me of that bloody MM when they started to slag off the original G+G MD version with the Super version for SF. Guess which one is more remembered now?
Huh ? . I was just saying all corps will play dirty and look after their interests
Not supporting xbox is hardly a dirty trick. Its something you fanboys got into your head that they were soley supporting it when Sega didn't say they were soley supporting it.
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Really? You name only 4 titles. I can name at least ten that went MP.
How many from SOJ ?. Games like Yakuza, Val were major IP for SEGA and big productions and yet weren't multi . Sonic isn't multi and neither is PSO . Sure all corps will have the odd deal, but most of the likes of the major corps will have Multi platform games . SEGA Japan is again way behind the times be that on tech or IP that can work in the West .
PC ENgine was the big thing on the grey import scene but it died the death after the MD and Superfamicom took off.
Sigh.... I'm not on about sales , tho in Japan the Pc Eng soundly beat the Mega Drive . I'm on about for people who played the systems : Then its up to people own choice which is their favorite and that's down to the games they like.
You kinda were saying that
No I like a system based on its games and I just liked the games on the Snes more . That said nothing on the MD or Snes could touch the Lunars or Batman Returns and so I like the Mega CD more over the Snes or MD. Its all about the games you like to play and you like best .
Not supporting xbox is hardly a dirty trick.
Never said it was . Just saying all corps will play dirty even ones that worked together. SONY worked with Toshiba on both the PS and PS2 , but then played hardball with Toshiba over HD DVD . It's the way big business works
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How many from SOJ ?. Games like Yakuza, Val were major IP for SEGA and big productions and yet weren't multi . Sonic isn't multi and neither is PSO . Sure all corps will have the odd deal, but most of the likes of the major corps will have Multi platform games . SEGA Japan is again way behind the times be that on tech or IP that can work in the West .
There was way more MP games from Sega than you are trying to re write. So let's cut the bull huh? Neither of them did well. End of. You singing about SOJ is behind the times is a old and tired tune we all have heard from you ever since i've known you and since you joined the site...
Sigh.... I'm not on about sales , tho in Japan the Pc Eng soundly beat the Mega Drive . I'm on about for people who played the systems : Then its up to people own choice which is their favorite and that's down to the games they like.
I'm on about the whole thing. Always have been. PC Engine is't even a footnote in games history. Sad but true. And considering they were shaking things up in their hey day it was sad.
No I like a system based on its games and I just liked the games on the Snes more . That said nothing on the MD or Snes could touch the Lunars or Batman Returns and so I like the Mega CD more over the Snes or MD. Its all about the games you like to play and you like best .
So you basically support the football team that going to win the league huh? And then jump to the other one if their rival does it the next year. Like i said not true blue...
Never said it was . Just saying all corps will play dirty even ones that worked together. SONY worked with Toshiba on both the PS and PS2 , but then played hardball with Toshiba over HD DVD . It's the way big business works
Im not talking about the backstabbers called sony, i'm talking about Sega, i know its difficult to accept but this is a sega fan site and Sega is the main subject around here.
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There was way more MP games from Sega than you are trying to re write
There wasn't many from SEGA Japan and still isn't .
PC Engine is't even a footnote in games history.
You couldn't be more wrong . Not only did it soundly beat the MD in Japan. Its the machine that give R-Type to home gamers , the machine that really started the import scene and the feeling of Arcade perfect ports, the 1st system to use CD-Rom for games and the 1st to give the world Bomberman and so .
A class system way ahead of its time and one that earned its footnote in history.
So you basically support the football team that going to win the league huh
Yes I mean the XBox, Master System, Mega CD, Saturn were consoles noted for winning the Hardware race and selling the most.
Im not talking about the backstabbers called sony, i'm talking about Sega
I was.
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There wasn't many from SEGA Japan and still isn't .
I said Sega,That covers the whole base so stop cherrypicking. Sega released many MP titles and they never do well because historically Sega has always been a one made system developer.
You couldn't be more wrong . Not only did it soundly beat the MD in Japan. Its the machine that give R-Type to home gamers , the machine that really started the import scene and the feeling of Arcade perfect ports, the 1st system to use CD-Rom for games and the 1st to give the world Bomberman and so .
I never said it didn't do well. It just didn't go beyond what it was. Read the post again before jumping to conclusions. Are you that desperate that you have to put words in my mouth?LOL
A class system way ahead of its time and one that earned its footnote in history.
Yeah that's why no one remembers the thing apart from people who got the system. Pity really.
Yes I mean the XBox, Master System, Mega CD, Saturn were consoles noted for winning the Hardware race and selling the most.
Which you only started supporting when the 360 came out. MCD and saturn i doubt it considering some of your statements concerning MD and definatly not the MS.
I was.
That wasn't what i was talking about. Since you replied to me on that you can 't say something totally different to what i was addressing. Won't fit the debate or prove anything since the point i was making had nothing to do with what you are going on about.
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I said Sega,That covers the whole base so stop cherrypicking
? I've no issues with SEGA West, SEGA Japan are the ones stuck in a 90's time warp . Single platform game development and games made only for Japan are not the way to go this or last gen.
It just didn't go beyond what it was.
It was a lot more than you seem to give it credit for .
Yeah that's why no one remembers the thing apart from people who got the system
Plenty of the old school remember it . Anybody in to games and importing in the late 80's and early 90's will remember the system and way back in 1988 it was using CD-ROM's a machine so far ahead of its time its not even funny.
Which you only started supporting when the 360 came out
What the Mega CD and Saturn have to do with XBox 360 is beyond me . Looking over that I always love and rate the Saturn, Mega CD, Snes, Master System and XBox in front of the Mega Drive.
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? I've no issues with SEGA West, SEGA Japan are the ones stuck in a 90's time warp . Single platform game development and games made only for Japan are not the way to go this or last gen.
Yet nothing supports multi platform success from Sega either. Keep singing the same old tune.
It was a lot more than you seem to give it credit for .
Not really. PC engine in the context of history was a flash in the pan and specifically a japanese flash in the pan. Didn't go beyond its boarders and couldn't follow up with a succesor in japan.
Plenty of the old school remember it . Anybody in to games and importing in the late 80's and early 90's will remember the system and way back in 1988 it was using CD-ROM's a machine so far ahead of its time its not even funny.
Compared to the generation of gamers that exist today? I don't think so.
What the Mega CD and Saturn have to do with XBox 360 is beyond me . Looking over that I always love and rate the Saturn, Mega CD, Snes, Master System and XBox in front of the Mega Drive.
Because you apologize for M$ and make excuses for Sony while criticising Sega on anything and everything. So don't give me this multi system loving talk, it wont wash.
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Yet nothing supports multi platform success from Sega either
SEGA Japan is losing out . This and last Gen all the major IP needs to be multi and needs to be made with the west in mind .
[quote]Didn't go beyond its boarders and couldn't follow up with a succesor in japan.
It came out in the USA and it did have a successor in Japan , with the PC-Eng FX. Doesn't matter if was a flash in the pan . It still had a huge impact in the late 80's and early 90's
Compared to the generation of gamers that exist today
Well I doubt many of them will remember machines like the C64 or the Zx Spectrum. But they all still played their part .
Because you apologize for M$ and make excuses for Sony while criticising Sega on anything and everything.
What ? I happen to like MS consoles and while not the biggest fan of SONY do admire them for their In-House line up and the new IP them always seem to come up with . And SEGA Japan needs a good kicking imo
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SEGA Japan is losing out . This and last Gen all the major IP needs to be multi and needs to be made with the west in mind .
They're not losing out. they're the biggest brand in Asia right now. Western project, they tried and failed. End of.
Well I doubt many of them will remember machines like the C64 or the Zx Spectrum. But they all still played their part .
Not saying it didn't play a part but its still a footnote in history.
What ? I happen to like MS consoles and while not the biggest fan of SONY do admire them for their In-House line up and the new IP them always seem to come up with . And SEGA Japan needs a good kicking imo
Oh i wont argue about SOJ needs a good kicking but like it or not they found their niche in their own markets.
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They're not losing out. they're the biggest brand in Asia right now.
SEGA Japan is in series trouble . They have little IP that sells over a millon copies, even Yakuza doesn't come close and in the West its even worse for SOJ. In 10 or so year time SEGA Japan will have no IP left to milk and make more money from , because its new IP has little interest and nothing like the appeal that SEGA classic IP had on the XBox, Saturn, Mega Drive and DC days .
Not saying it didn't play a part but its still a footnote in history
Ok fair enough . I'm not a fan of the PC Eng at all (always seen it as a poor mans Mega Drive) but it still had a massive impact and played it's part in console history.
Oh i wont argue about SOJ needs a good kicking but like it or not they found their niche in their own markets.
Its not good any more mate. The Japense market is too small and in such a mess its sad. SEGA Japan needs IP that works on the world stage and is multi Platform . Its pisses me off that there's still no sign of SEGA Japan brining PSO II to the next gen consoles -when it could have the market to its self . Knowing SEGA it rather wait until more On-Line RPG hit the next gen consoles and then make its move and lose out big time .
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SEGA Japan is in series trouble . They have little IP that sells over a millon copies, even Yakuza doesn't come close and in the West its even worse for SOJ. In 10 or so year time SEGA Japan will have no IP left to milk and make more money from , because its new IP has little interest and nothing like the appeal that SEGA classic IP had on the XBox, Saturn, Mega Drive and DC days .
Not in asia they're not PSO CHAIN CHRONICLE and other F2P games are selling well over a million giving them real strong results. I'm not for it since i prefer to have box japan games and this is the bottom line with you. You obviously haven't kept up that things have changed. You are still clinging on to this arctic view about how things use to be but not how they actually going to be or are. And Sega has always been ahead of the curve and its starting to pay off for them now compared to other big traditional japan video game companies. I do believe your over exaggerating the situation.
Ok fair enough . I'm not a fan of the PC Eng at all (always seen it as a poor mans Mega Drive) but it still had a massive impact and played it's part in console history.
Poor man's MD when it preceeds it? Come on i KNOW you don't believe that.
Never said it didn't make a impact but only in japan. it no doubt influenced Sega and their megadrive/Mega CD system which i have no doubt. But to say it has more than a footnote in console history is overplaying it. it doesn't and that's the bottom line.
Its not good any more mate. The Japense market is too small and in such a mess its sad. SEGA Japan needs IP that works on the world stage and is multi Platform . Its pisses me off that there's still no sign of SEGA Japan brining PSO II to the next gen consoles -when it could have the market to its self . Knowing SEGA it rather wait until more On-Line RPG hit the next gen consoles and then make its move and lose out big time .
Well i agree with you that they shouldn't withhold the release of a finished and established game and then release it way too late. I agree that is more on the lines of 80s/90s jap video game companies thinking. When they of course decide to release the game in the west then the title somehow became big but even then there's lots of factors and depending on the title.
But the MP format we've been there, done that and it doesn't work. I don't think Sega has the ability to create an international game let alone a western game. And it doesn't work anyway. Stick to what's working.
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Not in asia they're not PSO CHAIN CHRONICLE and other F2P games are selling well over a million giving them real strong results.
Yeah that's classic IP that people will want to pay for in the future for classic downloads like they do now for Mega Drive games Ect.
Poor man's MD when it preceeds it
Yes because everything that the PC Eng seemed to do well shooters and Arcade ports . To me the Mega Drive did that much better . I did own a PC Eng , but hardly ever played the system and liked the Mega Drive far more .
it has more than a footnote in console history is overplaying it.
It started many trends - It was the 1st conole system to offer CD Rom medium, when most were looking to Carts or even Floopy's . It was the 1st system to offer 4 player games, the 1st to offer rumble and it started the trend in the UK for imports and played a massive part in many people in the UK not only importing , but also setting up their own Import shops .
I'm not a fan of the system, but for such a small understated console is sure as hell made a impact and packed a punch.
But the MP format we've been there, done that and it doesn't work.
SEGA Japan doesn't do it or it does it in trips and drabs (ie VF 5 on the PS3 1st and then a year latter onthe 360) . Multi formate games need to be out on all the major systems on day one .
. I don't think Sega has the ability to create an international game let alone a western game. And it doesn't work anyway. Stick to what's working.
It's showed with Binary Domain that it can - Only it came years too late and it had no push from SEGA at all . SEGA Japan really should make Binary Domain II , Sonic PSO II are for the next gen and multi format from day one . There's no doubt still some talent left in the group and Sammy should start to put some of that to use or we'll just see SEGA Japan become even more irrelevant than it already is
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Yeah that's classic IP that people will want to pay for in the future for classic downloads like they do now for Mega Drive games Ect.
Yet those games are the ones that ARE selling. Stop being silly and get with the times..
Yes because everything that the PC Eng seemed to do well shooters and Arcade ports . To me the Mega Drive did that much better . I did own a PC Eng , but hardly ever played the system and liked the Mega Drive far more .
Than you agree with me a footnote in history. So why argue with it for then...
It started many trends - It was the 1st conole system to offer CD Rom medium, when most were looking to Carts or even Floopy's . It was the 1st system to offer 4 player games, the 1st to offer rumble and it started the trend in the UK for imports and played a massive part in many people in the UK not only importing , but also setting up their own Import shops .
Yes that's like saying the blues started the rock and roll trend and inspired bands from the rolling stones and Led Zepplin but it still doesn't get the plaudits it should get. And the rest of what you said is debatable.
I'm not a fan of the system, but for such a small understated console is sure as hell made a impact and packed a punch.
I agree but it hardly changed the bigger world which is what im saying
SEGA Japan doesn't do it or it does it in trips and drabs (ie VF 5 on the PS3 1st and then a year latter onthe 360) . Multi formate games need to be out on all the major systems on day one .
Sega did that and it failed. Sega traditionally never did MFP games so i don't know why you keep insisting that they do when they tried several times in several generations and FAILED! Move on its over now..
It's showed with Binary Domain that it can - Only it came years too late and it had no push from SEGA at all . SEGA Japan really should make Binary Domain II , Sonic PSO II are for the next gen and multi format from day one . There's no doubt still some talent left in the group and Sammy should start to put some of that to use or we'll just see SEGA Japan become even more irrelevant than it already is
BD flopped. So did some other big gun games from Sega only BAYONETTA didn't and that got turned over to nintendo and an exclusive. So no it doesn't work. Sega big money is coming from exclusives. Either from their mobile games to handhelds to their PC titles. it sure isn't coming from MP. And you can call Sega irrelevant all you like it sure wasn't irrevavent when it beat people to the punch in buying Atlus or even Relic which were are considered good purchases.
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Yet those games are the ones that ARE selling
Its not classic IP and these days SEGA is making loads on its classic collections and XBL and PSN downloads but that's on the back of old IP. It's current IP is limited and lacks appeal .
And the rest of what you said is debatable
Its fact and the machine had a big impact on the console scene.
but it hardly changed the bigger world which is what im saying
Not many console do . Hardly anyone remembers the Odssey and that was a true 1st in the console gaming Nobody knows much or cares about the Fairchild -the worlds 1st console that used Carts .
Sega did that and it failed
Sign No they never . Sonic isn't multi platform, Yakuza has never been multi Platform, PSO II isn't multi platform , Valkyria wasn't multi platform . Its hit and miss with SEGA Japan if a game is multi Platform much less make it to the West these days .
BD flopped.
Way to miss the point . Its showed SEGA Japan is more than capable of making IP that could work inthe West . Shame it had no push and was launched late in a system life - A killer time to launch any new IP .
Sega big money is coming from exclusives. Either from their mobile games to handhelds to their PC titles. it
And that's why next to nobody cares about SEGA Japan anymore and games like Football Manager would do well no matter who owned Sports Inter . Some of SEGA best sellers on consoles all happen to be Multi Platform titles and I bet CA Alien game will sell thanks to being made with the west in mind and multi Platform - Take note SOJ
Sega irrelevant all you like it sure wasn't irrevavent when it beat people to the punch in buying Atlus or even Relic which were are considered good purchases.
Yes I always seem to remember you talking about the likes of Atlus . Most people after hearing the new of the Atlus buyout by SEGA joked that will be the end of them . SEGA stock in the gaming community is so low
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Its not classic IP and these days SEGA is making loads on its classic
collections and XBL and PSN downloads but that's on the back of old IP.
It's current IP is limited and lacks appeal .
They're making money of them because they are old titles and own the game code. But Sega is making millions off of the new digital games alone. That's a fact. Its IP is limited because you don't know the extent of their digital games which are mostly available in japan and asia and never been released outside of japan.
Its fact and the machine had a big impact on the console scene.
Yes the japanese one.
Not many console do . Hardly anyone remembers the Odssey and that was a true 1st
in the console gaming Nobody knows much or cares about the Fairchild -the
worlds 1st console that used Carts .
Point proven nothing more than a footnote. It didn't go beyond anything else apart from being the first.
Sign No they never . Sonic isn't multi platform, Yakuza has never been multi
Platform, PSO II isn't multi platform , Valkyria wasn't multi platform . Its hit
and miss with SEGA Japan if a game is multi Platform much less make it to the
West these days .
PSO 2 been avilable on PC and handheld and digital format. Sonic has been MP several times and YAKUZA last i checked was on PS3 and 4 and vita. can't get MP than that can you..
Way to miss the point . Its showed SEGA Japan is more than capable of making
IP that could work inthe West . Shame it had no push and was launched late in a
system life - A killer time to launch any new IP .
Sega ran out of money that's why it didn't get pushed. it was quite a turbulant period actually. But i didn't miss the point since you keep banging on about it all the time.
And that's why next to nobody cares about SEGA Japan anymore and games like
Football Manager would do well no matter who owned Sports Inter . Some of SEGA
best sellers on consoles all happen to be Multi Platform titles and I bet CA
Alien game will sell thanks to being made with the west in mind and multi
Platform - Take note SOJ
In the west no one cares about Sega whether they made good games or not, whether it was MP or not and that was due to zealots bashing Sega at every turn during the early to mid noughties. it had nothing to do with whether sega was MP or not it was down to the name sega.
FB has seen exceptional growth so i very much doubt they could acheive that if Sega wasn't involved. not even the original Champions Manager(or whatever it was called) had sales like that
Yes I always seem to remember you talking about the likes of Atlus . Most people
after hearing the new of the Atlus buyout by SEGA joked that will be the end of
them . SEGA stock in the gaming community is so low
What the bitter nintendo fans who was shocked when they found out Sega acompany they thought was dead brought out Atlas? Yes we should ALWAYS listen to the opinions of the ignorant internet fans...
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They're making money of them because they are old titles and own the game code
Yes but they're games people want to still play and games that bring back happy memories . SEGA Japan current line up isn't a patch on that and that's an issue.
Yes the japanese one
It came out in the USA too not that matters.
It didn't go beyond anything else apart from being the first
Being a true 1st makes sure your name will be in the history books
PSO 2 been avilable on PC and handheld and digital format.
That is not multi format . Look at the likes of Ubisoft big IP not only do they come the PC , but also the 360,PS3, XBox 1 and PS4 now that's multi .
Sonic has been MP several times
4 times I can't see that and its hit and miss with Sonic . Sonic Colours wasn't multi , neither is the current Sonic .
YAKUZA last i checked was on PS3 and 4 and vita.
Lame mate . The likes of Assassin's Creed came out on the 360,PS3,Vita, XBox One, PS 4 and PC now that's multi and that's how you get sales of 8 million plus . Yakuza is franchise that can't break out of the 700,000 barrier and with each new entry is starting to see a decline in sales .
Sega ran out of money that's why it didn't get pushed
Rubbish .
In the west no one cares about Sega whether they made good games or not, whether it was MP or not and that was due to zealots bashing Sega at every turn during the early to mid noughties
People liked SEGA in the 1990's SEGA Japan had respect . SEGA also had a lot on good will on the PS2, Cube and XBox . Since then and since the Sammy Takeover its all been downhill
FB has seen exceptional growth so i very much doubt they could acheive that if Sega wasn't involved
The title always sold well . CM 4 for example smashed all records for PC games sales in its 1st week
What the bitter nintendo fans who was shocked when they found out Sega acompany they thought was dead brought out Atlas?
No just about every gaming forum on the internet with out a SEGA bias
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Yes but they're games people want to still play and games that bring back happy memories . SEGA Japan current line up isn't a patch on that and that's an issue.
Absolute tosh. Sega has always created new game series at the expense of older estabilshed ones. Each generation of Sega gamer has had their favourite series. That's all thats happening. The new games are making the money MORE than another MD rehash.
It came out in the USA too not that matters.
Just released actually...
Being a true 1st makes sure your name will be in the history books
Sega's been there and done that. Didn't help them in the long run now did it?
That is not multi format . Look at the likes of Ubisoft big IP not only do they come the PC , but also the 360,PS3, XBox 1 and PS4 now that's multi .
It is actually. multi format. different systems.
4 times I can't see that and its hit and miss with Sonic . Sonic Colours wasn't multi , neither is the current Sonic .
Sonic Colors was on Handheld and Wii...multi format...
Yakuza is franchise that can't break out of the 700,000 barrier and with each new entry is starting to see a decline in sales .
The spin offs not the main series....
Rubbish .
True actually.
People liked SEGA in the 1990's SEGA Japan had respect . SEGA also had a lot on good will on the PS2, Cube and XBox . Since then and since the Sammy Takeover its all been downhill
SOJ didn't have respect in the nineties it was over an by nintendo zealots and than Sony zealots who kept bad mouthing Sega at every turn because of the way thew games looked and the system it was on. Sega only got real respect after the DC era ended. Not during or before. Only in the arcades was there a bit but even then when the stupid home gamers started invading the arcades it was the same bollocks about sega sucks.
The title always sold well . CM 4 for example smashed all records for PC games sales in its 1st week
Not compared to the sales FBM is getting. For a new franchise that has grown so quickly that is very good.
No just about every gaming forum on the internet with out a SEGA bias
Not really.
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Sega has always created new game series at the expense of older estabilshed ones.
Really ?. What SEGA 'Japan' games have people on here enjoyed playing the last year and is looking forward to playing for the next year ?
Just released actually..
? It was out for years .
Didn't help them in the long run now did it?
Well people like you keep on about it . It gets your name in history books
It is actually. multi format. different systems
Don't be silly . Think like that SEGA and Nintendo are Multi platform developers since they supported both their home and Handheld consoles .
Sonic Colors was on Handheld and Wii.
That isn't multi platform and you know it .
The spin offs not the main series
No on of the PS3 Yakuza's have sold post 700,000 figure since Yakzua 3 and the last one saw some of the weakest sales for a new Yakuza game . The series has been milked to death and is starting to see decline in sales .
True actually
SEGA don't have enough money to publish a game, utter rubbish ? . The only reason SOJ aren't publishing the game is because they'll think it will flop and aren't ready to fund Platinum games at their expense.
One of their better calls of late .
SOJ didn't have respect in the nineties it was over an by nintendo zealots
What people didn't respect the likes of VF and Sonic in the 90's, the likes of Sega Rally , Saga, JSR, Mega Mix, Shenmue and the likes in the late 90's , Didn't respect the likes of Monkeyball, PSO, Virtual Tennis , VF 4, Orta, JSRF, REZ early in the new millenium ?
SEGA might not have enjoyed the best sales, but it had respect from the gaming forums and quite a bit of the press - all that is gone now . Funny too you seemed to like Nintendo not so long ago .
Not compared to the sales FBM is getting.
Its not a new franchise just a new name . The fans of the series know the score and the deal . And its always broke new records with each new entry
Not really.
Most of the gaming forums now like to take the piss out of anything SEGA . Not just the usual ones, but the ones that liked SEGA a lot .
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Really ?. What SEGA 'Japan' games have people on here enjoyed playing the last
year and is looking forward to playing for the next year ?
What are you talking about. Please stop being stupid. You know..well actually you dont do you? Sega has always made new games att he expense of older games or series. That much hasn't changed. The difference between now and then was back then, most of those games were released in the west..while the newer games are just being released in asia and Japan. It doesn't mean it counts becaue the west didn't get to play these games. That's arogance for you..
? It was out for years .
Not years.
Well people like you keep on about it . It gets your name in history books
People like me and you are not the majority.
Don't be silly . Think like that SEGA and Nintendo are Multi platform
developers since they supported both their home and Handheld consoles .
They were in a way. That's why you have people like Sony continuing that trend.
That isn't multi platform and you know it .
It is. Different formats by the same maker or not doesn't matter.
No on of the PS3 Yakuza's have sold post 700,000 figure since Yakzua 3 and
the last one saw some of the weakest sales for a new Yakuza game . The series
has been milked to death and is starting to see decline in sales .
Which YAKUZA game was that ISHIN? Of course but it sold higher than KENZEN and lower than THE END. Again its down to the point that its a spin off not a main title...
SEGA don't have enough money to publish a game, utter rubbish ? . The only
reason SOJ aren't publishing the game is because they'll think it will flop and
aren't ready to fund Platinum games at their expense.
They canned it with several other titles at the same time. That is a fact. If Sega had no faith in the IP they wouldn't have made the deal with Nintendo to make it happen and certainly Nintendo wouldn't have taken it.
What people didn't respect the likes of VF and Sonic in the 90's, the likes
of Sega Rally , Saga, JSR, Mega Mix, Shenmue and the likes in the late 90's ,
Didn't respect the likes of Monkeyball, PSO, Virtual Tennis , VF 4, Orta, JSRF,
REZ early in the new millenium ?
Plenty since they were bashing Sega because they were Sega and not a PSX system.
SEGA might not have enjoyed the best sales, but it had respect from the gaming
forums and quite a bit of the press - all that is gone now . Funny too you
seemed to like Nintendo not so long ago .
Against the corporate monkeys like Sony and Microsoft yeah..i always support the little guy in that regard.And no Sega didn't have any respect in the gaming forums outside of sega game forums...
Its not a new franchise just a new name
Its a new franchise for Sega that's doing well..
Most of the gaming forums now like to take the piss out of anything SEGA . Not
just the usual ones, but the ones that liked SEGA a lot .
They were doing that from day one...