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Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Sega Uranus on September 13, 2013, 12:53:56 am
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Before I start, I think it should mention that 2012 was one of SEGA's best years ever, truly. Tons of fan favorite games new and old were released, SEGA had a bit of everything for everyone. They made clear marketing mistakes, but generally their fans were satisfied with releases like Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown, Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed, Binary Domain, Virtua Tennis on Vita, Hell even Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II did a lot of things right! A ton of ports fans have been asking years for like NiGHTS into Dreams, Daytona USA, Jet Set Radio, Virtua Fighter 2 and even hugely unexpected stuff like a newly-translated Monster World IV came out! With only a few stinkers like Rhythm Thief, Crush 3D and arguably Yakuza Dead Souls (I personally loved it), I find it hard for anyone into games in general to not like at least a handful of SEGA's output in 2012.
It should be obvious to most that the reason we are getting far less games from SEGA at the moment is because of their mass cancellations from last year. That is barely an excuse to me, though.
Aliens: Colonial Marines is too obvious, but do most people know it has $80+ worth of extra DLC? The game is mostly Gearboxes' fault, but the fact SEGA would even let it happen speaks volumes. Not in just lack of proper management abilities, but quality control and wasted potential of the license disappointing several people who waited years.
Anarchy Reigns was sent to die after several delays. For such a community-focused game, this could not have stung more. It is also considered one of PlatinumGames' worst.
The Cave. Considered one of Double Fine's lamest games, but given more marketing than probably Binary Domain. Who even cares about this game? Coming out soon for mobile devices!!!
Total War: Rome II is considered the biggest disappointment in the series yet. This somehow was glitchier than Empire: Total War was at launch, a feat not considered possible due to the scale and development cycle of this game. Not counting spin-off releases like Total Warrior or Total War Battles, the fan backlash of this game has been so negative that several directors have apologized on the Total War forums.
Virtual-On and Virtua Striker for XBLA/PSN both cancelled outside of Asian regions. I am not sure what the specifics are for PlayStation Network, but releasing a game in more regions than one on XBLA does not cost anything outside of ESRB, PEGI and all of the other types of rating system deals. As these games are in full English and already have been widely available in markets all over the world, my conclusion is that SEGA West is specifically trying to kill the IP.
I know a good few amount of people here are fond of how Sonic Lost World is turning out, but the game just seems like a mess to me at best. Overly complicated design with bloated features, gimmicks, the worst new characters the franchise has gotten since Charmy Bee's redesign and what I consider the dumbest art direction the series has seen since probably... Sonic Schoolhouse? The Nintendo 3DS version looks even worse, and this is especially upsetting for me because I have been waiting eons for a proper 3D Sonic game on handhelds.
We have no idea what is happening to Phantasy Star Online 2. It is probably still being released outside of Asia, and I am sure it will be big (huge, actually), but the way SEGA is treating the fans for this is just insulting. Check out http://segahates.us/ to see a bit of what I mean. Samurai & Dragons had a similar fate, where it is fully in English, but not being released outside of strange Asian markets. At least you can still play it if you have a Hong Kong account, right??
I still have a bit of hope Yakuza 5 is going to get an English language version, but the longer this takes, the less people will care. It will be a Yakuza 2-like situation all over again. Do not even get me started on all of the Japan-only games SEGA is making at the moment. Puyo Puyo Tetris sounds absolutely wondrous, but will we ever see it?
We have not gotten a single word about when to expect the 3DS classic remakes. Nintendo themselves had to announce the games were coming at all, a full year after after most of them had been on the Japanese 3DS eShop! SEGA will likely all launch all of them on the same day and cannibalize most potential sales. I would bet on it, even. I hate having to check Nintendo sites every Thursday just to see if something was silently released. This is a horrible way to treat your fans.
Castle of Illusion was a fantastic re-imagining, Company of Heroes 2 is about the same quality as the original (never played it, but this is what I have heard!), Super Monkey Ball: Banana Splitz is the best game the series has seen for almost a decade and some smaller stuff like the new mobile version of Sonic 1 have been very good, but Castle of Illusion's development team has already been kicked to the curb and stuff like Miku Hatsune's game was only released on PlayStation 3, not Vita like many fans wanted/expected.
Besides a bunch of games not announced for release outside of Japan, what does SEGA have coming out anytime soon? Heroki? GO Dance? No thanks. :-\
Not even Shenmue III could have saved this year.
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If sonic lost worlds blows, yes. Terrible year
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With only a few stinkers like Rhythm Thief, Crush 3D and arguably Yakuza Dead Souls (I personally loved it), I find it hard for anyone into games in general to not like at least a handful of SEGA's output in 2012.
Rhythm Thief is hardly a "stinker", general consensus is it's an average game, (76 metacritic, 80 user score).
It should be obvious to most that the reason we are getting far less games from SEGA at the moment is because of their mass cancellations from last year. That is barely an excuse to me, though.
From a consumer perspective, I hear you. I definitely wanted to see more from SEGA this year. From a business perspective though, I don't see an alternative. The AAA industry in general is faltering.
Anarchy Reigns was sent to die after several delays. For such a community-focused game, this could not have stung more. It is also considered one of PlatinumGames' worst.
Saying "PlatinumGames' worst" means very little, it's still a good game. Furthermore, I fail to see how it's a failure on SEGA's part, literally nobody has managed to make major successes of Clover/PG titles, not Capcom, SEGA or even Nintendo. The only profitable games they made have been MG Rising (not original IP, developed for Konami, of course), VJ1 (made during a very different time, as far as dev. costs go) and Bayonetta (which supposedly profitted slightly).
The Cave. Considered one of Double Fine's lamest games, but given more marketing than probably Binary Domain. Who even cares about this game? Coming out soon for mobile devices!!!
Lots of people cared about this game and for good reason; Ron Gilbert + spiritual successor to PC classic Maniac Mansion. It was a disappointment but there was good reason to believe it wouldn't be.
Total War: Rome II is considered the biggest disappointment in the series yet. This somehow was glitchier than Empire: Total War was at launch, a feat not considered possible due to the scale and development cycle of this game. Not counting spin-off releases like Total Warrior or Total War Battles, the fan backlash of this game has been so negative that several directors have apologized on the Total War forums.
Fair, a mis-step no doubt. Creative Assembly is hard at work correcting it but the game should have been delayed, or released as a Steam Early Access title, wherein it would have a valid excuse for its current status.
Virtual-On and Virtua Striker for XBLA/PSN both cancelled outside of Asian regions. I am not sure what the specifics are for PlayStation Network, but releasing a game in more regions than one on XBLA does not cost anything outside of ESRB, PEGI and all of the other types of rating system deals. As these games are in full English and already have been widely available in markets all over the world, my conclusion is that SEGA West is specifically trying to kill the IP.
Nobody turns down guaranteed money unless they are incompetent. Suggesting incompetence is fair, I'd agree in quite a few cases. Suggesting intentional SEGA West conspiracy to A. Turn down guaranteed profit and B. sabotaging Japanese IP? Delusional.
I know a good few amount of people here are fond of how Sonic Lost World is turning out, but the game just seems like a mess to me at best. Overly complicated design with bloated features, gimmicks, the worst new characters the franchise has gotten since Charmy Bee's redesign and what I consider the dumbest art direction the series has seen since probably... Sonic Schoolhouse? The Nintendo 3DS version looks even worse, and this is especially upsetting for me because I have been waiting eons for a proper 3D Sonic game on handhelds.
I love the art direction & I think it looks fantastic visually. With that said, I'm not sure how I feel about gameplay either and given the quality of the Sonic franchise? I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up a purely average platformer. Sonic Generations was an average platformer but I got some enjoyment out of that. I also think the sprint/run button is a good idea and a welcome addition.
I still have a bit of hope Yakuza 5 is going to get an English language version, but the longer this takes, the less people will care. It will be a Yakuza 2-like situation all over again. Do not even get me started on all of the Japan-only games SEGA is making at the moment. Puyo Puyo Tetris sounds absolutely wondrous, but will we ever see it?
Tetris has a sizable fanbase in the west, so it's plausible imo.
Castle of Illusion was a fantastic re-imagining, Company of Heroes 2 is about the same quality as the original (never played it, but this is what I have heard!), ..... some smaller stuff like the new mobile version of Sonic 1 have been very good, but Castle of Illusion's development team has already been kicked to the curb and stuff like Miku Hatsune's game was only released on PlayStation 3, not Vita like many fans wanted/expected.
CoH2 < CoH1, no doubt. It has the potential to become the better game long term but right now? No way. CoH1 is the best RTS ever but CoH2s faults really cannot be blamed on SEGA, the vast majority of the fault lies with THQ who woefully underfunded the game due to their horrendous financial position. Sonic 1's remake is good but being exclusive to mobile? Joke. WTF happened to PC? SEGA Australia being closed made business sense to me, I feel Hardlight can take over a lot of their responsibilities. Vita is irrelevant in the west, Miku seems to be doing fine on PS3, I don't feel this is a valid complaint when a Vita release would cost extra money for an already niche game.
Besides a bunch of games not announced for release outside of Japan, what does SEGA have coming out anytime soon? Heroki? GO Dance? No thanks. :-\
Get used to the mobile shit, SEGA loves it.
Not even Shenmue III could have saved this year.
SEGA could announce tomorrow they were canning every game for the next two years, dedicating the entire company to Shenmue 3 and as a fan? I'd be ok with that.
P.S.: ACM & PSO2 issues go without saying & are completely fair critiques, particularly considering ACM's false advertising.
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I know a good few amount of people here are fond of how Sonic Lost World is turning out, but the game just seems like a mess to me at best. Overly complicated design with bloated features, gimmicks, the worst new characters the franchise has gotten since Charmy Bee's redesign and what I consider the dumbest art direction the series has seen since probably... Sonic Schoolhouse? The Nintendo 3DS version looks even worse, and this is especially upsetting for me because I have been waiting eons for a proper 3D Sonic game on handhelds.
wat.
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Rhythm Thief is hardly a "stinker", general consensus is it's an average game, (76 metacritic, 80 user score).
The general consensus that it is a good game. Better than Binary Domain on Metacritic at least (which had 74 metacritic)
It is not a stinker because it reminded us Sega can still do creative and quirky games like Space Channel 5 and Jet Set Radio.
Also I think the reason we haven't seen that much is because the NEXT-GEN is coming up! Sega can't do digital stuff as well since the digital stuff won't transfer from 360&PS3, they are waiting for the new consoles. And games TAKE TIME, even smaller things.
Sega pretty much vanished packaged western games, and international aimed japanese games they had (from 2009's Madworld to 2012's Binary Domain)
So that only leaves us with hoping, that Sega seriously ups their digital output again with not JUST ports (or at least ports of interresting stuff) but original content, and get's a grip and bring japanese games over here (and by that at least letting other companies letting handling their games).
I hope that this is just transitional year. Back then 1997 wasn't the hottest year either for Sega.
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Why are people mentioning Metacritic? Guitar Hero II is rated higher than almost every SEGA game ever on there, along with games like Just Dance 4 on Kinect rating higher than NiGHTS into Dreams.
Saying "PlatinumGames' worst" means very little, it's still a good game. Furthermore, I fail to see how it's a failure on SEGA's part, literally nobody has managed to make major successes of Clover/PG titles, not Capcom, SEGA or even Nintendo. The only profitable games they made have been MG Rising (not original IP, developed for Konami, of course), VJ1 (made during a very different time, as far as dev. costs go) and Bayonetta (which supposedly profitted slightly).
Did you play it? The game is awkward for sure. Even the biggest fans of it say it is disappointing, but the way SEGA handled it was just wrong.
I wanted to say Infinite Space was their worst game, but apparently they did not design that.
Either way, Bayonetta was a pretty big success. Sold over two million across both platforms last I checked. Not at full price, but it could have been a genuine franchise if they made the sequel two years ago. Now I feel it is too late.
I hope that this is just transitional year. Back then 1997 wasn't the hottest year either for Sega.
1997 was a good year. We got Virtua Fighter 3 in the arcades, Shining Force III, The House of the Dead, Die Hard Arcade, SEGA Bass Fishing, Sakura Taisen Columns, several SEGA AGES releases on Saturn, Sonic JAM, The Lost World... This is all off the top of my head. 96 and 98 were better, but 97 was not a bad year at all.
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In terms of localised Japanese content? Yes.
In the grand scheme of things I'm not too sure it comes close to 2005. The Creative Assembly always botches their launch, Sonic: Lost World will probably be a decent to good platformer, Company of Heroes 2 was still salvageable from where THQ was headed with it, Hatsune Miku I suppose is one of those oddballs, Castle of Illusion was a good remake from all I hear and Football Manager will continue to be the best in its genre (Not that is really has any competition)
But that is about it for this year. SEGA West need to find a way to supplement SEGA Japan's titles into their lineup somehow instead of just tossing them aside, having Ryu Ga Gotoku Ishin, Puyo Puyo Tetris and Phantasy Star Nova available for launch in 2014 already massively brings up that years prospects. Just like if they had Yakuza 5 and Phantasy Star Online 2 available this year.
But highly unlikely if management is not shuffled at the top brass of SEGA West.
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Apart from SEGA Europe the rest of SEGA had a year to forget
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Why are people mentioning Metacritic? Guitar Hero II is rated higher than almost every SEGA game ever on there, along with games like Just Dance 4 on Kinect rating higher than NiGHTS into Dreams.
I don't believe in Metacritic. But Yamada brought it up for measuring it's quality.
1997 was a good year. We got Virtua Fighter 3 in the arcades, Shining Force III, The House of the Dead, Die Hard Arcade, SEGA Bass Fishing, Sakura Taisen Columns, several SEGA AGES releases on Saturn, Sonic JAM, The Lost World... This is all off the top of my head. 96 and 98 were better, but 97 was not a bad year at all.
I forgot Shining Force III (altough that came out in 98' in the west) and House of the Dead, you're right.
Sakura Wars Columns, well is just a puzzle game, Sega brought out Puyo Puyo Quest too. VF3 and Die Hard Arcade came out in 96', Sega Bass Fishing in 98'. And in terms of Lost World, this year Sega had the Transformers Arcade game (testing at least in China).
As far as Sega Ages goes, well there were the 3D Classics, and ah...Sonic compilation? Really?
I dunno you are counting Arcade releases. Sega had some excellent releases such as Le Mans 24 and Motor Raid, and some rather cabinet focused stuff such Top Skater, Ski stuff etc.
This year they also had 3 arcade-exclusive releases with Code of Joker, K.O. Drive and Transformers Arcade.
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I wouldn't say it's a bad year given that releases have been extremely low to compare past years line up (which was a good year, but the titles released were quite a few!), but SEGA have certainly been on the non-creative side, so to speak.
I actually believe this is due to R&D in the PS4, XBO and Wii U (to an extent).
Puyo Puyo Tetris sounds like it didn't have much R&D in it, however I look forward to this crossover.
Sonic Lost Worlds is likely being collaborated with a few Nintendo Staff, and we know that Platinum is being funded by Nintendo for Bayonetta 2 (although that comes out in 2014).
I am quite happy with the announcements of Yakuza Ishin and Phantasy Star Nova, but the only thing about SEGA is that the West have no clue on how to localise the games (or don't care to).
I am all for reshuffling SEGA Wests side, but it'd be better to get someone from SoJ to become SoA CEO and tell them to market some of the games instead of one article on it before it's forgotten.
Bad year in terms of SoA not localising games for sure, but overall, I am happy with what few announcements we did get.
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2013 was lighter on games than past years, but I don't think that makes it "the worst" or even a bad year in general. And like others, I chalk that up to One and PS4 development coupled with third party devs jumping the Wii U ship (Sonic Lost World being an exception).
The only stinker this year was Aliens: CM.
Anarchy Reigns was as good as MadWorld, I thought, which itself is not an amazing game. Good, but not great. The Cave wasn't Double Fine's best, but I'd much rather see SEGA working with devs like then than release shitty Marvel games. Again, the game was good but not great. Like PG's Anarchy Reigns, it was a game from a fantastic dev that ended up being "the worst" game from that developer, which is actually a pretty good game. A "bad" game from Double Fine and Platinum Games averages a review score of 70%. I'm sure SEGA was hoping for 9/10 or 10/10 scores for games from those devs, but like I said, 7/10 is far from "awful" territory.
I can't really comment on the RTS PC games, as I haven't played them. However, I've been seeing a lot of 8/10 scores for the games. Again, not as high as the previous titles, but far from awful and PC games can always fix problems via patches. Ideally, they shouldn't need patches because the problems should exist to begin with, but at least the opportunity is there and hopefully it can bump the quality of the games up and erase some issues fans have.
Virtual-On and Virtua Striker... no major losses. Hell, you're the only person I've heard still complaining about their lack of launch to the West. To be honest, I can see why SEGA didn't go to the effort. Virtual-On OT is already available, and old sports games really only appeal to a small group of people. Even less in the US given it is a soccer game.
The worst thing that I can think of is the lack of Yakuza 5 and PSO2 in the west. The former is likely a risk for the company and an expensive and expansive translation. PSO2 is still delayed with an unknown ETA. Not great, but better than cancelled. If PSO2 was outright cancelled, I'd be much more down on 2013 for sure.
SEGA 3D Classics are coming, we just don't know when. I know you get easily angry over the lack of news, but why stress out over it? They're "coming soon", an announcement was made. They're not new titles, so its not like waiting a few months is killing us.
Sonic Lost World is releasing soon, which I'm really excited for. You're in this crazy minority that hates the game, so I really don't know what to tell you. The one big game that I could point to that shows it is not a bad year and you hate it for crazy reasons. :P
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My hope is we get the 3D Classics in the fall, and some real PSO2 news for the West. Perhaps a early 2014 release?
I don't see how 2013 can be judged when we're only 3/4th of the way through it. Talk to me in January of 2014. :afroman:
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A year of average games is far from Sega's worst years ever.
Besides a bunch of games not announced for release outside of Japan, what does SEGA have coming out anytime soon? Heroki? GO Dance? No thanks. :-\
(http://segabits.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/9678480239_8d2996ab70_o.png)
(http://segabits.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/9678480193_0e54b89639_o.png)
Yeah, Heroki clearly isn't worth paying attention to. (http://segabits.com/blog/2013/09/05/pax-13-heroki-demo-impressions/)
You can go ahead and dismiss GO Dance though. :V
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Heroki is a SEGA Alliance title: http://segabits.com/blog/2012/08/16/just-what-is-sega-alliance/
So I really don't think it's draining SEGA's resources or making them look bad. At most, SEGA is publishing a little known title from a small developer. They're providing them with marketing, production support, and creative consultation. The game looks to have been largely completed before SEGA stepped in.
Best to judge the game AFTER playing it.
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Man, I wish Heroki was coming to Android, the game played great when I tried the demo at PAX (and you can read how I felt on the article TimmiT linked.) I don't get why theres such hate on the game if you haven't even experienced it. Unless you're the type of people who cling onto the whole "Tablet gaming is for non-gamer" hoopla. They did mention that they're likely to add in game controller functions if touching screens really isn't your thing, although there IS a degree of control you lose as a result, at least in the game's current form since it's not done yet.
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Why are people mentioning Metacritic? Guitar Hero II is rated higher than almost every SEGA game ever on there, along with games like Just Dance 4 on Kinect rating higher than NiGHTS into Dreams.
Did you play it? The game is awkward for sure. Even the biggest fans of it say it is disappointing, but the way SEGA handled it was just wrong.
I'm not huge on MetaCritic but MetaScore and user scores can indicate a general consensus. Not all the time but sometimes. Bottom line, I know from previous discussions with you that you aren't very receptive to individuals holding opposing views on games. I provided MetaCritic because it provided a contrasting view to your allegation of "stinker" status. Obviously it's not perfect and in most cases I would discourage it but given I also know real people who enjoyed Rhythm Thief and would even like a sequel? and I know how often you can refuse to acknowledge that somebody might like something you don't? I've deemed it appropriate.
You also disliked Rhythm Thief before you even played it or owned a 3DS, IIRC, mostly due to the visual style.
Either way, Bayonetta was a pretty big success. Sold over two million across both platforms last I checked. Not at full price, but it could have been a genuine franchise if they made the sequel two years ago. Now I feel it is too late.
Source? Last update was somewhere between 1-1.5 million IIRC.
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Its not their biggest year in terms of games but with the recent acquisitions of Relic and Atlus, Sega is definatly gearing towards the future.
I am all for reshuffling SEGA Wests side, but it'd be better to get someone from SoJ to become SoA CEO and tell them to market some of the games instead of one article on it before it's forgotten.
That's how its been for a while now. There's a SOJ executive that oversees all of Sega west's operations while they have a or use to have a COO from the west overseeing day to day operations. Its actually been bad ever since Hayes left his position.
My real problem is how Sega is willing to go with new IP over their classic ones. The fact that they didn't want to publish a new ECCO game yet go with GO DANCE is evidence of this. They could have even went thru the Sega alliance to get the title out there. I mean why are they so keen to rerelease ECCO and other old Genesis titles and not go with a new version/update is beyond me, especially when the original creators/developers of the game wanted to be involved?
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That's how its been for a while now. There's a SOJ executive that oversees all of Sega west's operations while they have a or use to have a COO from the west overseeing day to day operations. Its actually been bad ever since Hayes left his position.
My real problem is how Sega is willing to go with new IP over their classic ones. The fact that they didn't want to publish a new ECCO game yet go with GO DANCE is evidence of this. They could have even went thru the Sega alliance to get the title out there. I mean why are they so keen to rerelease ECCO and other old Genesis titles and not go with a new version/update is beyond me, especially when the original creators/developers of the game wanted to be involved?
Ah I see. Forgive my lack of knowledge on that subject. :P Sounds like even that isn't enough.
Hayes was the guy who left in 2009, right?
They probably didn't see the potential in the franchise, but they should utilise the alliance brand to at least give them something to work on whilst continuing their little projects for SEGA to publish.
As for GO DANCE, probably they are advertising the game because the Indie Developer gave SEGA the most money? Who knows for sure.
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Hayes left due to the Aliens fiasco among other things. Similar to what happened with jeffery when he put too much money into too many contract studios whose games weren't either making money or stuck in development hell.
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Hayes left due to the Aliens fiasco among other things. Similar to what happened with jeffery when he put too much money into too many contract studios whose games weren't either making money or stuck in development hell.
Thanks for the insight.
So SoA were the ones who didn't oversee the Aliens game? That doesn't surprise me, to be honest.
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Thanks for the insight.
So SoA were the ones who didn't oversee the Aliens game? That doesn't surprise me, to be honest.
No they oversaw it but Sega's idea of overseeing a project is more or less hands off and poping over to the offices to see how its coming along. The problem was is this. When Jeffery left Sega, he left them with a big headache to clear up. Hayes first job as COO of Sega USA and Sega Europe was to get rid of all the messes. Silicon Knights new Sega IP was sold off to THQ, several games were canned and the ALIENS license was drew back. Hayes found out that Obsidian's game wasn't ready and neither was CM. And Sega had to get an ALIENS game by a certain deadline or lose the license. They manage to do that with what happened with Atari/Activision/Viendi when they were selling off games. However Hayes mistake was to let A:CM continue and scrap Obsidian's project because A:CM was deemed more easier to sell and ALPHA PROTOCOL wasn't coming along great which affected the decision on their second Sega project ALIENS RPG.So they scrapped it. When they found out years later what ACM looked like,as well as some of the returns on particular sega games plus the fact that Segasammy decided to do a ruthless cutback because all of Sega's budget was being exceeded and the market climate was deemed unsuitable for continued development on big package games, he resigned(read between the lines) That was before ACM was to reach market.But basically Sega knew it was in trouble way before the projected release date but had no choice because of the investment poured into it and the trouble they got getting the license in the first place.
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I would have to agree and say it's been a poor year for Sega. I like Company of Heroes 2, but it's hardly got anything to do with Sega. I haven't played Rome Total War 2 yet because I'm travelling atm and also because I heard it's a massive step back.
Anarchy Reigns might have been fun if more than three people bought the game, considering it was built around online gameplay. As it is though, me and the two other players have given up on it after the first week and the single player was dog-shit.
Everything else was stuff I didn't care about, except Colonial Marines because that was a fun train-wreck to watch.
If we get another Yakuza translated I'll be happy, but I find it unlikely. VF6 is probably coming next year though, which is still great. But I'm a fan of their developers/franchises rather than Sega overall at this point.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I can say I'm no longer a Sega fan and haven't been for some time now.
Either way, Bayonetta was a pretty big success. Sold over two million across both platforms last I checked. Not at full price, but it could have been a genuine franchise if they made the sequel two years ago. Now I feel it is too late.
Gentle reminder that Bayonetta 2 is being released exclusively on a dead console and the franchise is probably going to be mothballed.
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No they oversaw it but Sega's idea of overseeing a project is more or less hands off and poping over to the offices to see how its coming along. The problem was is this. When Jeffery left Sega, he left them with a big headache to clear up. Hayes first job as COO of Sega USA and Sega Europe was to get rid of all the messes. Silicon Knights new Sega IP was sold off to THQ, several games were canned and the ALIENS license was drew back. Hayes found out that Obsidian's game wasn't ready and neither was CM. And Sega had to get an ALIENS game by a certain deadline or lose the license. They manage to do that with what happened with Atari/Activision/Viendi when they were selling off games. However Hayes mistake was to let A:CM continue and scrap Obsidian's project because A:CM was deemed more easier to sell and ALPHA PROTOCOL wasn't coming along great which affected the decision on their second Sega project ALIENS RPG.So they scrapped it. When they found out years later what ACM looked like,as well as some of the returns on particular sega games plus the fact that Segasammy decided to do a ruthless cutback because all of Sega's budget was being exceeded and the market climate was deemed unsuitable for continued development on big package games, he resigned(read between the lines) That was before ACM was to reach market.But basically Sega knew it was in trouble way before the projected release date but had no choice because of the investment poured into it and the trouble they got getting the license in the first place.
Sounds like SEGA were between a rock and a hard place.
Not sure what I would do in that position.
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But I'm a fan of their developers/franchises rather than Sega overall at this point.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I can say I'm no longer a Sega fan and haven't been for some time now.
I think you are still a fan of Sega that way.
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If you can still enjoy their old games, you're still a fan. You can not like their current output but still be a fan. Unless the modern stuff wipes out all previous fandom...
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If you can still enjoy their old games, you're still a fan. You can not like their current output but still be a fan. Unless the modern stuff wipes out all previous fandom...
I think we see it different ways. I wouldn't say now that I'm a Sega fan, because I don't like current Sega. Obviously I still like their older games, but wouldn't that mean I used to be a fan of Sega?
I don't know I guess we are arguing semantics, but yeah, there's very little Sega does now that I actually care for.
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Brilliant post Cory, very insightful.
I am still playing catch up with 2012 as I just finished Binary Domain a couple of months back, and am still enjoying Sonic Generations. I have to buy Virtua Tennis 3, haven't played that yet. Then i'll get Virtua Tennis 4 next year :P
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I think we see it different ways. I wouldn't say now that I'm a Sega fan, because I don't like current Sega. Obviously I still like their older games, but wouldn't that mean I used to be a fan of Sega?
I don't know I guess we are arguing semantics, but yeah, there's very little Sega does now that I actually care for.
Nah, if you play a game and enjoy it and are a fan of it, you didn't used to be a fan of it. I'm a fan of Packard Automobiles, they haven't made a car in 60 years.
Also you do like games SEGA produces, you like Company of Heroes 2 and Total War. Relic and Creative Assembly will continue kicking ass going forward, now we have Atlus, you like VF (which we have reason to believe will continue). Also hints at a new Virtual-On?
I mean if you mean you're not a fan of SEGA's business practices? I can get behind that, they seem often incompetent and their DLC can occasionally be total shit. Me? I'm a SEGA fan in terms of the content they produce but after the CoH2 DLC situation I'll be waiting for complete editions of every single PC release they offer.
It truly amazes me how stupid video game companies are, the reason people are waiting for your games to bomb is because when we buy them full price you walk all over us and drop insane DLC. CoH2's DLC literally costs more than the full price $60 game does....
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SEGA Japan current output bar the Arcades and the odd magic console title is pretty poor these days , buts that's comparing SEGA Japan to what SEGA Japan produced the previous console gens. That's the trouble not that SEGA is poor compared to other 3rd partys, just compared what I grew with and what SEGA Japan used to produce its very poor imo .
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SEGA aren't as consistant as they used to be, but they ARE the good Apple in the bad bunch in the fruit basket. Konami's molded long ago and Capcpon seems to have been unripe in it's bank balance.
SEGA, in comparison, is doing much better than most Japanese Developers it seems.
Overall though, the problem is clearly on the Western front in regards to localising games the fans want but can't have.
I am seriously hoping ATLUS USA are used for that very reason...but if they aren't...then I have no hope of SEGA ever making a good decision for their global markets.
Those who are fans of Total War and Football Manager are fans because they have followed them for a long time and don't give a crap that SEGA publish the games. Sure, a SEGA fan can be a fan of those games too without even thinking SEGA owns those franchises, but SEGA in general seems to assume that we all just want these games and never their own output these days.
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I just want Sega to be successful no matter what. What people are forgetting is as a console maker Sega had something to fall back on if it failed which they did twice during their console runs. If they ultimately fail as a third party the implications are more bleak because it would be the end. As long as Sega exists there's still a chance that the games were more accustomed to will happen either in short bursts or in abundance. If Sega goes belly up and gets brought out then you can forget it. I prefer an half assed Sega than no Sega at all.
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SEGA aren't as consistant as they used to be, but they ARE the good Apple in the bad bunch in the fruit basket. Konami's molded long ago and Capcpon seems to have been unripe in it's bank balance.
SEGA, in comparison, is doing much better than most Japanese Developers it seems.
Konami make a lot of money and Capcom just like SEGA did a few years back is spending a lot in order to restructure its self , otherwise Capcom been doing rather well this gen with a fantasic multi purpose and platform engine and multi million sellers on all formats and in all the key markets.
Overall though, the problem is clearly on the Western front in regards to localising games the fans want but can't have.
I don't know, other than Yakuza, PSO 2 is there really that much worth brining over from SEGA Japan this year ? . To me the trouble is SEGA Japan just aren't doing much of note on the major console these days
If they ultimately fail as a third party the implications are more bleak because it would be the end
It does have its Arcade business side and more offten than not , that's the side that makes money for SEGA
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It does have its Arcade business side and more offten than not , that's the side that makes money for SEGA
Not enough to stop their huge money problems and getting taken over by Sammy, the arcade market isn't as big as it once was for Sega even in Japan. And even if it was enough it still would be the end as many people don't have access to an arcade centre anymore in the states, as well as the fact that certain games aren't imported to the west by Sega anymore.
Konami make a lot of money and Capcom just like SEGA did a few years back is spending a lot in order to restructure its self , otherwise Capcom been doing rather well this gen with a fantasic multi purpose and platform engine and multi million sellers on all formats and in all the key markets.
Stop selling the "Sega should be like Capcom" bit. Capcom are way in the red, posting a very poor profit this year alone. Even when Sega was having its money issues they were in no way of danger of going out of buisness which is what the "almighty" Capcom are in danger of being. I wouldn't be suprised if Capcom was the next games corp that gets taken over after years being in debt. And you reckon that Capcom is bigger than Sega when it comes to third parties in Japan. Gimme a break.
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Not enough to stop their huge money problems and getting taken over by Sammy, the arcade market isn't as big as it once was for Sega even in Japan
We've changed our tune on the Arcade side I see and no the Arcade business wasn't enough , but that was thanks to the huge debt mountain built up with the sad failure of the DC. Without the consumer side SEGA would have been a rather profitable crop for the last 15 years or so
Stop selling the "Sega should be like Capcom" bit. Capcom are way in the red, posting a very poor profit this year alone
Never said that here . And no Capcom are not in the red , they've been making profits for most of this generation and you can bet thanks alone to monster sales of Monster Hunter 4 they'll be making rather nice profits for this year too already
I wouldn't be suprised if Capcom was the next games corp that gets taken over after years being in debt.
Lol Capcom isn't it debt and it only made a modest profit this year, becasue it spent a massive £46 million on getting it Teams ready for the next generation and is looking to double its staff .
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We've changed our tune on the Arcade side I see and no the Arcade business wasn't enough , but that was thanks to the huge debt mountain built up with the sad failure of the DC. Without the consumer side SEGA would have been a rather profitable crop for the last 15 years or so
No "we" haven't changed anything, its more you have. The arcade side wasn't enough back then and it isn't now, its actually smaller then it was in 2003 and i'm talking about Japan. I never said they weren't sucessful in it. You on the other hand did.
Never said that here .
yes you did, you keep saying Sega should have multi format teams do multi lines of development and keep using Capcom as an example. Well it isn't Sega that's in the red is it.
And no Capcom are not in the red , they've been making profits for most of this generation and you can bet thanks alone to monster sales of Monster Hunter 4 they'll be making rather nice profits for this year too already
No they haven't..
Capcom has forecast even slimmer returns for the next fiscal year, with only 13 million unit sales expected from a line-up that includes Lost Planet 3, Monster Hunter 4 and Dead Rising 3. Monster Hunter 4, which is scheduled for release this month, seems likely to meet its expected 2.8 million sales by the end of March 2014. The console release of Resident Evil: Revelations, launched in May, should also hit its relatively lowly 1.2 million target. But Lost Planet 3 is another matter - it may only need to sell 1.2 million to meet expectations, but it is off to a poor start in Japan, and its sales in the UK suggest that it will be among the calendar year's most notable failures. Between them, Capcom's three biggest console releases for the rest of this fiscal year are not expected to sell more than an under-performing Resident Evil 6 managed in six months.
They've had a bad year this year and are forecast to have a bad one next year which is what prompted the CEO of Capcom to say this...
I regret to say that, up to now, we had few plans for the full-scale implementation of DLC," said COO Haruhiro Tsujimoto. "From here on out, we need to focus on the long-term provision of content starting at the earliest stages of development. Furthermore, in terms of user response, if the additional related content we are providing continually to users online is deemed uninteresting from the start, there will be no ongoing business to pursue. This means that, more than ever before, the creation of underlying content is the key to success."
Really they've been sucesful this gen? When they only made 22 million in profit for 2010? LOL! Compared to how Sega is doing that's bad and especially for Capcom "standards". Everyone apart from you (suprise suprise) are saying that Capcom is in real trouble. But if you think having $152 million dollars in the bank for this year in profit is healthly for a games company the size of Capcom compared to Sega's net profit of $331 million then your having a laugh.
Lol Capcom isn't it debt and it only made a modest profit this year, becasue it spent a massive £46 million on getting it Teams ready for the next generation and is looking to double its staff .
They in worse shape than Sega ever was.
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They've had a bad year this year and are forecast to have a bad one next year which is what prompted the CEO of Capcom to say this...
I'm seeing no losses in debt in any of that .
The arcade side wasn't enough back then and it isn't now,
It was, thanks alone to the Arcade side SEGA was able to post a profit in 2002 after the sales of VF IV- Which I still think holds the record in japan, for the best money making coin up in Japan (none Jamma).
Well it isn't Sega that's in the red is it.
You do make me laugh , SEGA had 1 good year and you think that's it . Capcom isn't in the red , it hasn't got a huge debt mountain and its profits only had a hard time this year thanks to spending billions on an restructure: when SEGA done that it made a huge loss (85 million) in comparsion
yes you did
Never in this thread and its quite clear.
But if you think having $152 million dollars in the bank for this year in profit is healthly for a games company the size of Capcom
I don't know where you get these figs , but less any time a corp makes over a $100 Million in profits after paying for all the overheads in doing fine .
Sega's net profit of $331 million
Well the real profit is half that fig, I would have though a person who's meant to be in the Stock market would know the diff between Net and operating profits .
Also Capcom sell way more units than SEGA. Selling just 11 million software titles isn't really good enough for a corp of SEGA size
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I'm seeing no losses in debt in any of that .
Everyone including the COO of capcom does...
It was, thanks alone to the Arcade side SEGA was able to post a profit in 2002 after the sales of VF IV- Which I still think holds the record in japan, for the best money making coin up in Japan (none Jamma).
And a year later Sammy took over them. Case closed.
You do make me laugh , SEGA had 1 good year and you think that's it . Capcom isn't in the red , it hasn't got a huge debt mountain and its profits only had a hard time this year thanks to spending billions on an restructure: when SEGA done that it made a huge loss (85 million) in comparsion
Sega has had more good years than that since they've been a third party. All i'm saying which everyone else from anyalists and newssites alike is saying Capcom is having a real rough time of it contary of what you have said. Funny you haven't proven me wrong..wait you can't.
Never in this thread and its quite clear.
because you only see what you want to see TA, your dealings with aki is evident of that.
I don't know where you get these figs , but less any time a corp makes over a $100 Million in profits after paying for all the overheads in doing fine .
No they're not if they were called Capcom or EA. If they were called Atlus then maybe you have a point.
Well the real profit is half that fig, I would have though a person who's meant to be in the Stock market would know the diff between Net and operating profits .
That is the real figure. I'm using net profits. That's the net profits which i said. But of course why let the truth get in the way eh TA?
Also Capcom sell way more units than SEGA. Selling just 11 million software titles isn't really good enough for a corp of SEGA size
And still only made 22 million in 2010 And having a bad year this year too. That's far from being succesful as you keep trumping out.
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And a year later Sammy took over them. Case closed.
Yes Thanks to the Huge debt mountain built up by the Dreamcast . The Arcade side did rather well with growth and NA@MI and NA@MI II being massive sellers the world over . Even in this generation the Arcade side as made plenty of money, while the consumer side has posted a number of losses.
Everyone including the COO of capcom does...
You do make me laugh . The article you're quoting form makes it quite clear that Capcom made a profit of $31 million dollars
Sega has had more good years than that since they've been a third party
They've had a few decent years , but Konami and Capcom haven't posted a loss at all this generation unlike SEGA .
No they're not if they were called Capcom or EA
Capcom are a small outfit with some 1000 staff and yet make good money and shift loads of software, they are not really in trouble like they once were - where their housing investment side cost them dear and they were really only saved by SF 2 and RE on the PS .
That's the net profits which i said
Operating profits are the real bottom line.
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Yes Thanks to the Huge debt mountain built up by the Dreamcast . The Arcade side did rather well with growth and NA@MI and NA@MI II being massive sellers the world over . Even in this generation the Arcade side as made plenty of money, while the consumer side has posted a number of losses.
Actually the biggest growth on Sega's side has been the digital division not the arcades. Again your point is moot because the arcades profits alone wasn't enough to stop the Sammy merger. Sega could have easily brought the CSK stake themselves but they just didn't have the money to achieve that. So despite what you keep claiming the arcades isn't enough to get Sega out of any trouble when it comes to takeovers.
You do make me laugh . The article you're quoting form makes it quite clear that Capcom made a profit of $31 million dollars
They also made it clear they made a huge loss. Again its only you the capcom diehard that refuses to accept the sad truth.
They've had a few decent years , but Konami and Capcom haven't posted a loss at all this generation unlike SEGA .
Wrong. Capcom HAS posted a loss this year and 2010. Don't make things up.
Capcom are a small outfit with some 1000 staff and yet make good money and shift loads of software, they are not really in trouble like they once were - where their housing investment side cost them dear and they were really only saved by SF 2 and RE on the PS .
Small? i thought you said they were big and had bigger amounts of software to shift and more bigger than Sega in your numerous discussions? Now you're retracting and saying they're small? BS. Capcom is still regarded as a big company and the losses they've incurred this gen is incredible to say the least. And you want Sega to copy them? HAHAHAHAHAR!
Operating profits are the real bottom line.
Not really its just part of it. Which again from a net profit of the original figure from Sega was MORE than Capcom made, From the operating costs as you said will create half is still MORE than capcom's. Boy you are becoming a joke around here lately.
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Again your point is moot because the arcades profits alone wasn't enough to stop the Sammy merger.
? Its not mute with out Dreamcast project costing SEGA some $800 million dollars in losses . SEGA would have been doing rather well with just its Arcade side. They've always brought the money in and always done very well , bar 1998 .
Sega could have easily brought the CSK stake themselves but they just didn't have the money to achieve that
If you don't have the money its not so easy .
They also made it clear they made a huge loss
Yes in their profits ::) , compared to the year before , but it wasn't an actual loss but a huge dip in their profits . Capcom also put aside some 70 million for dropping projects and getting teams ready for the next game, no different from the likes of SEGA or EA
Wrong. Capcom HAS posted a loss this year and 2010. Don't make things up
Its only you that makes stuff up
Capcom has announced its earnings results for the nine months to December 2010. During the period, Capcom earned 70.773b Yen ($863.4m) and saw profits of 6.836b Yen ($83.9m). In the nine months to December 2009, Capcom earned $613.3m in revenue and $21.2m in profit at current exchange rates. The profit figure is roughly four times greater in the current nine month period, while revenues grew a respectable 42%. Capcom retained its fiscal year forecast of 91b Yen in revenue ($1.12b) and 6.5b Yen in profit ($79.8m). The projected figures for April 2010 to March 2011 are up 36% for revenue and 200% for profit.
i thought you said they were big and had bigger amounts of software to shift and more bigger than Sega in your numerous discussions
Small in terms of staff compared to the likes of SEGA , but big in terms of multi million sellers and numbers of IP . SEGA Japan could do far better if Capcom can do the stuff it does with less that half the staff .
Not really its just part of it
Its the main part of it
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? Its not mute with out Dreamcast project costing SEGA some $800 million dollars in losses . SEGA would have been doing rather well with just its Arcade side. They've always brought the money in and always done very well , bar 1998 .
Moot not mute. The arcades didn't save Sega from its debt or being taken over. That is and will always will be the the bottom line. Accept it and move on. You can't rewrite history no matter how hard you try.
If you don't have the money its not so easy .
Then why the hell are you arguing with me for. If the arcade was enough for them then they would have had the money. guess what it wasn't. It was barely keeping them afloat. For gods sake man stay consistent.
Yes in their profits ::) , compared to the year before , but it wasn't an actual loss but a huge dip in their profits . Capcom also put aside some 70 million for dropping projects and getting teams ready for the next game, no different from the likes of SEGA or EA
And that's also cost them as well since that was one of the reasons Capcom's COO has stated for the loss of profits. Not dip but loss because NONE of the games made their projected sales and that is considered a loss. And i think Sega is more than ready to deal with the next gen don't you, with a multi format release of ISHIN on the way,(oh i thought sega didn't do that according to you) a new company that has several next gen games coming out in the next year...
Its only you that makes stuff up
Not according to Jonboy and Aki and George and....how many people have said the same thing about your debate and twisting things...let me count..
Small in terms of staff compared to the likes of SEGA , but big in terms of multi million sellers and numbers of IP . SEGA Japan could do far better if Capcom can do the stuff it does with less that half the staff .
But they're not doing better that's the point. Sega the company you keep criticizing IS doing better. Deal with it. You call yourself a fan of Sega but all you ever do is to wish them ill.
Its the main part of it
no its just a part of it. But then you can't even admit the truth when its staring you in the face when everybody that deals with these type of business things have said that capcom is in trouble, that fans have been disgruntled with Capcom for a few years and saying the same thing. its only TA that says different yet providing once again little to no proof to back his claims. And i'm making things up? No its you who is obviously living in some alternate universe with its alternate view on things and alternate opinions of what people have in reality actually said. And the worst thing is that you're not even consistent even in you're own posts.
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Finally read this: http://segahates.us/ Ouch.
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You know. Let me add some more to my inelaborated first post. I personally don't like this SEGA year as a whole. But I can perfectly aknowledge that business wise they've made excellent decision. They cut of the average projects and focussed more on those who have a lot more potential to succeed.
I think it is much much better compared to other publishers like capcom or konami who are called out a lot about bad franchise managing or cheap ways of selling stuff.
At least with SEGA we see them genuinly trying to create and sell quality. Well for the most part at least if i'm saying anything wrong :P
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The arcades didn't save Sega from its debt or being taken over.
Well when you run up some 800 million dollars in debts and your total corps net worth is 2 billion dollars , not much can really save you . With out the Arcade side SEGA wouldn't have been around in the late 1990's.
If the arcade was enough for them then they would have had the money
If SEGA didn't make the DC for the home market it wouldn't have been in debt and its Arcade Teams would have been very healty profits . That is all I'm saying .
And that's also cost them as well since that was one of the reasons Capcom's COO has stated for the loss of profits
Well yes paying off contracts to cancle games, wanting to double your staff is going to cost a hell of lot of money . Capcom isn't in debt though and I don't think it has ever posted a loss since the 1990's.
that fans have been disgruntled with Capcom for a few years and saying the same thing
what and SEGA doesn't get that too lol . Fans might moan , but the likes of RE 5, 6 are still huge sellers . Capcom just have more IP and more IP that sells the world over .
At least with SEGA we see them genuinly trying to create and sell quality. Well for the most part at least if i'm saying anything wrong
I think the likes of Konami have upped their game now too. Pro Evo is back on form and konami done good with Castlevannia . Capcom do produce very good games too I know RE 6 wasn't it's finest hour , but games like DMC, Dragon Dogma and MH 3 are top titles and Capcom with Dead Rising 3 and the simply stunning looking Deep Down Capcom look set to start the next gen very well ; that Panta Rhei engine is pie hot already
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Well when you run up some 800 million dollars in debts and your total corps net worth is 2 billion dollars , not much can really save you . With out the Arcade side SEGA wouldn't have been around in the late 1990's.
But were not talking about the nineties well the early nineties anyway. were talking about the period in the noughties when the arcades just wasn't enough to bail them out anymore. But keep using methods that bare no relation to the period on when Sega was actually was brought out.
If SEGA didn't make the DC for the home market it wouldn't have been in debt and its Arcade Teams would have been very healty profits . That is all I'm saying .
Nothing really to do with what were talking about now is it?
Well yes paying off contracts to cancle games, wanting to double your staff is going to cost a hell of lot of money . Capcom isn't in debt though and I don't think it has ever posted a loss since the 1990's.
Capcom's been in trouble this gen. its also not the first time that it was speculated as being ripe for a takeover by analysts from various japan news media. So obviously something is wrong.
what and SEGA doesn't get that too lol . Fans might moan , but the likes of RE 5, 6 are still huge sellers . Capcom just have more IP and more IP that sells the world over .
Yet 22 million profit and 152 million profit as a whole in two separate years, with the amount of money they pour into those games.Yes that's really doing well.NOT! And the number of Sega fans aren't much compared to capcom's core fans nowadays. Sega lost most of its fanbase when they left the console biz. All there is now are a few sega core fans on the console front and a few in the arcades, the majority are fans of various games that sega has made or acquired but many of them wouldn't buy a sega game outside of that franchise. Capcom still has their core audience and they're not used to being let down and obviously many of them have spoken with their cash hench the poor showings with capcom's profits.
I think the likes of Konami have upped their game now too. Pro Evo is back on form and konami done good with Castlevannia . Capcom do produce very good games too I know RE 6 wasn't it's finest hour , but games like DMC, Dragon Dogma and MH 3 are top titles and Capcom with Dead Rising 3 and the simply stunning looking Deep Down Capcom look set to start the next gen very well ; that Panta Rhei engine is pie hot already
I didn't mention konami so i don't know why you keep bringing them up. As for capcom? Good for them for a new engine, but its the money results that's the bottom line and capcom isn't doing well.
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I am super late for this topic...
But here's my two cents on the matter... I've accepted the fact that SEGA isn't the same company we used to know.
I've also accepted the fact that 2012 and 2013 were terrible years, for the most part, mainly because game studios are experiencing to some degree some sense of fatigue, since this console cycle has gone way longer than expected.
Early 2013 was basically 2012's rejects that had to shoved in there somehow, that doesn't apply just to SEGA, I think everyone else has done a terrible job.
But SEGA's been guilty this generation for being a very later adopter of trends. In my mind, SEGA is trapped in this weird place in which most developers are moving on to the Xbox One and PS4, while SEGA is still clinging to this notion that the Wii U is the cash cow they expect it to be.
They burned me twice with Bayonetta 2 and the new exclusive Sonic deals, to which I mantain to this day, is a near suicidal undertaking.
However, as harsh as I may be... I understand why there are doing this. They did say that Sonic, Aliens and the SI and Creative Assembly IPs are going to be their main focus. Those IPs sell, a lot, maybe not as much as some of the other IPs, enough to keep a healthy company.
At the expense of drastically reducing new game releases, mind you. But then again, it is better to release fewer games that SEGA knows for sure that they'll see returns, then it is to gamble on various releases only to see quite a lot of 'em just tank and burn money.
Though, it is indeed troublesome that Phantasy Star Online 2 got an english announcement a year ago only to vanish without a trace. Infrastructure problems, perhaps? Was it because being a free game meant that the cost of maintaining those servers running wasn't worth the hassle?
I've noticed that Godsrule: War of Mortals was shutdown last August, the game servers were up for little more than 6 months.
I guess SEGA prefers Spiral Knights as their main F2P go-to.
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I'm sure the konami part was aimed at me since i was being quoted
To reply, I disagree TA. Can't comment too much about Pro evolution because i haven't played it, but it isn't getting alot of positive reactions. And while it's true that castlevania lords of shadows is a solid game. It is a big letdown for castlevania fans. It sucks that they decided giving up the classic formula for the 3d westernized games. Mirrors of fate on the 3DS was really average and puts konami in a similar spot for me with capcom. I'm not a big fan of established IP names being neglected or used for something totally different. Start a new IP or a spin off instead.
SEGA has done this mistake a lot as well and it didn't pay off but instead killed the namesakes. I like what they are doing now with the their portfolio. I'm loving what they're doing with sonic, yakuza and total war(bad start sadly but seeing the dev comments it seems they're genuinly upset and trying to fix it. this shows that the intention was good). SEGA invested more money into the big IP's hoping to gain from it simply by giving the games the "right" treatment. and i apreciate that compared to others.
I hope going forward we'll this more. As in more frequently, because it does kill the enthousiasm for me as... sort of a sega fan i guess. I can't say that i'm not one like mademang. but have been caring less and less about SEGA. Especially notice this when i dont care people insulting SEGA. I used to hate that but now i either dont care or agree..
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But were not talking about the nineties well the early nineties anyway. were talking about the period in the noughties when the arcades just wasn't enough to bail them out anymore
You can go back to the 80's and the Arcade hey days and no matter , when you corp has debt equal to half the valve of your corp you are in serious trouble and more often that not will be sold off.
Capcom's been in trouble this gen
They have no debt and have sold millions of copies of games . Sure they will also be seen ripe of a takeover given that have IP that sells and compared to other corps are small.
Yet 22 million profit and 152 million profit as a whole in two separate years,
That means nothing to fans and you know it . They really care about the games and SEGA doesn't get a good time on boards these days for that.
And while it's true that castlevania lords of shadows is a solid game. It is a big letdown for castlevania fans. It sucks that they decided giving up the classic formula for the 3d westernized games.
Compared to the other 3D versions of the game it was a massive step up in quality and making the game work in 3D and you'll always get fans that bitch about it not being 2D - Hell they do that for Sonic
I'm not a big fan of established IP names being neglected or used for something totally different. Start a new IP or a spin off instead.
And SEGA doesn't do that it's self . I don't many fans are happy with Shining Force on the PSP , we already got PSO on the Vita being used for something different with Nova and look at what happened to the Valkyria Chronicles that was turned into a web game, Sonic turned into a RPG on the DS and a poor version of Shinobi on the DS . Sadly SEGA it's self is just has guilty as Capcom or Konami.
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I was trying to be a little optomistic. But yes you're right. I'm hoping to see this short term quick buck thinking less. Can't believe they don't see how damaging it is in the long term. Although there's at least a couple of signs of goodwill
I'd be fine with lords of shadows if they didn't decide neglecting the original style and outsource a westernized 2d castlevania instead. Remember that castlevania is a major established franchise.
It reminds me of how boost sonic gameplay took over all 2d/3d games after sonic rush with dimps. Man just the thought of seeing the boost mechanic gone fills me with joy.
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You can go back to the 80's and the Arcade hey days and no matter , when you corp has debt equal to half the valve of your corp you are in serious trouble and more often that not will be sold off.
You're still agreeing with me. God you are confused and inconsistant. No matter what profit the arcades made it couldn't save Sega at the end. sheez.
They have no debt and have sold millions of copies of games . Sure they will also be seen ripe of a takeover given that have IP that sells and compared to other corps are small.
Not enough this generation as this year and 2010 proved.
That means nothing to fans and you know it . They really care about the games and SEGA doesn't get a good time on boards these days for that.
Yes it does. Its the truth that people like you are trying to deny while capcom fans and the industry are bemonaing the fact that a great third party are in trouble.
2)Mainly because Sega west refuses to localise PS02 on time and YAKUZA 5.
And SEGA doesn't do that it's self . I don't many fans are happy with Shining Force on the PSP , we already got PSO on the Vita being used for something different with Nova and look at what happened to the Valkyria Chronicles that was turned into a web game, Sonic turned into a RPG on the DS and a poor version of Shinobi on the DS . Sadly SEGA it's self is just has guilty as Capcom or Konami.
So what? You being a "longterm" Sega supporter should be used to Sega creating side games of their franchises. What's ISHIN? a proper YAKUZA game? Even though i told you ages ago that the first RGG title for PS4 wasn't going to be a proper game in the series and you kept saying it was. Guess who won that one...
As for SHINOBI 3DS that's down to opinion. as for the others the point is the people buying SHINING FORCE games now aren't the same people who brought it when they were all on Sega systems. Which goes back to my last point most of Sega's custmers are fans of their particular franchises and not necessarly fans of Sega as a whole.
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They burned me twice with Bayonetta 2 and the new exclusive Sonic deals, to which I mantain to this day, is a near suicidal undertaking.
Well we shall see what eventually happens. The point of exclusives is to attract the customer to buy the system. BAYONETTA has a strong base in Japan and Sonic has proven to be a very solid seller on Nintendo systems in the west. Two markets that Nintendo needs to gain ground on. Out of the two i'd say Sonic has the bigger struggle to sell systems. If it works then Sega would be in a very comftable position with Nintendo for any future deals.
I've always maintained that they should have taken this route with VANQUISH and BINARY DOMAIN to easily estabilsh those franchises in its own right and then go Multi platform with future installments. As well as the need to really create a few titles for xbox that caters to that market specifically and do the same thing.
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That means nothing to fans and you know it . They really care about the games and SEGA doesn't get a good time on boards these days for that.
Commodore ended up closing because the demand was too high and the costs of a certain part to their C64 wasn't profitable.
Listening to fans sadly means that a company can eventually go bankrupt if they are not careful.
Capcom, by only catering to a certain crowd, gives the other fanbases an excuse to no longer follow them. Look at the Mega Man fans...the series overall surprisingly doesn't sell nearly as well as Monster Hunter, but Capcom have created a bad dent from their lack of support.
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Look at the Mega Man fans...the series overall surprisingly doesn't sell nearly as well as Monster Hunter, but Capcom have created a bad dent from their lack of support
MegaMan is an outdated IP and one that was seeing its sales and popularity decline on the Saturn and PS. Capcom did give the fans a new Mega Man game done in the old style and Capcom is even giving us a new Strider game , but the fans will bitch about that no doubt. I love SEGA to make a new Astal, a new Alex Kid but I'm not about to give SEGA a hard time for not wanting to go near IP where their best days are long behind them
No matter what profit the arcades made it couldn't save Sega at the end
With out SEGA being inthe console business , SEGA would have been a very profitable company and one with no debts, since I think its Arcade side has only ever posted a loss in 1998.
Not enough this generation as this year and 2010 proved
Capcom made money in 2010
Capcom has announced its earnings results for the nine months to December 2010. During the period, Capcom earned 70.773b Yen ($863.4m) and saw profits of 6.836b Yen ($83.9m). In the nine months to December 2009, Capcom earned $613.3m in revenue and $21.2m in profit at current exchange rates. The profit figure is roughly four times greater in the current nine month period, while revenues grew a respectable 42%. Capcom retained its fiscal year forecast of 91b Yen in revenue ($1.12b) and 6.5b Yen in profit ($79.8m). The projected figures for April 2010 to March 2011 are up 36% for revenue and 200% for profit.
It made money in 2011
Capcom revealed its earnings for fiscal year 2011, which ended on March 31, and unlike last year it's good news for the company. Net sales increased 46.2% to 97.7 billion yen ($1.2 billion). Operating income was up 155.8%, and ordinary income was up 132.6%. Net income increased to 7.7 billion yen ($95 million), up a whopping 257.6% from the prior year. The company says this marks record net sales, operating income, ordinary income, and net income.
It made money in 2012
Capcom has released its financial report for its 2012 fiscal year which ended March 31, 2012. Revenue dropped 16.0 percent to $12.9 billion. Profits were down 13.2 percent to $1.1 billion. The main cause for the drop is the sales of consumer online games which made of 65.2 percent of the total sales. Sales were down to $717.2 million. Mobile content increased 50.6 percent, to $84.7 million
It made money this year
Capcom revenue climbed by the millions this fiscal year, rising from ¥82 billion ($820 million) to ¥94 billion ($940 million) in revenue according to the publisher's full year financial results for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2013.
Capcom never posted a loss this generation . Though they posted a loss in 2003/4 I think
Its the truth that people like you are trying to deny while capcom fans and the industry are bemonaing the fact that a great third party are in trouble.
2)Mainly because Sega west refuses to localise PS02 on time and YAKUZA 5.
Capcom aren't in trouble and people on the web have gone off SEGA for a number of reasons like the way Sonic was run into the ground, Monkey Ball run into the ground poor sequels to the likes of Nights,Golden Axe, Shinobi, Altered Beast and the lack of the old Arty SEGA games and risky games like Panzer, Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5 REZ that SEGA used to make each year
Its more than just Yakuza 5 and PSO 2 not coming to the West just yet
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MegaMan is an outdated IP and one that was seeing its sales and popularity decline on the Saturn and PS. Capcom did give the fans a new Mega Man game done in the old style and Capcom is even giving us a new Strider game , but the fans will bitch about that no doubt. I love SEGA to make a new Astal, a new Alex Kid but I'm not about to give SEGA a hard time for not wanting to go near IP where their best days are long behind them
Unless someone can make a great update and do it different but similar much like how Mario and Sonic has been able to last this long. Not impossible, just needs fresh ideas.
With out SEGA being inthe console business , SEGA would have been a very profitable company and one with no debts, since I think its Arcade side has only ever posted a loss in 1998.
Again for the final time the arcade was NOT i repeat NOT enough to save the company in the end. You know it as well as anyone else around here. Trying to divert the argument into hypotheticals does not detract the point on what actually happened. You are wrong and i am correct. So be quiet if you can't admit it.
Capcom made money in 2010
IT made 22 million.
It made money this year
It made a loss this year A big one.
Capcom never posted a loss this generation . Though they posted a loss in 2003/4 I think
Think again...
Barring 2010, when it made a profit of $22 million, that makes fiscal 2013 Capcom's least profitable year since 2005.
2005 too? Thought they always posted a profit? LOL!
it is off to a poor start in Japan, and its sales in the UK suggest that it will be among the calendar year's most notable failures. Between them, Capcom's three biggest console releases for the rest of this fiscal year are not expected to sell more than an under-performing Resident Evil 6 managed in six months.
In trouble in the second and third biggest game markets. Oh my.
Capcom aren't in trouble and people on the web have gone off SEGA for a number of reasons like the way Sonic was run into the ground, Monkey Ball run into the ground poor sequels to the likes of Nights,Golden Axe, Shinobi, Altered Beast and the lack of the old Arty SEGA games and risky games like Panzer, Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5 REZ that SEGA used to make each year
As i said that's just a number of small core Sega fans who stuck with the company. They wouldn't stop buying Sega games and Sega knows it. Most of the games you mentioned rely on people outside of sega. The difference is capcom's userbase of core supporters are still there and if they leave which seems to be happening then Capcom would be in trouble. Hench this...
"If the DLC we are providing to users is deemed uninteresting from the start, there will be no ongoing business to pursue"
Haruhiro Tsujimoto, COO, Capcom
So across the board Capcom IS in trouble. Despite what you claim.
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I thought it would be relevant for the topic at hand but here are all the inhouse projects SEGA Japan has releasing over the next few months. I've left out titles such as Samurai & Dragon and Phantasy Star Online 2: Episode 2 as I am unaware if there is any significant updates added to them and decided not to include outsourced projects that seem to have inhouse talent attached (For example Phantasy Star Nova has a designer for Valkyria Chronicles working on it)
Sakatsuku 8 (Vita / PS3) (October release)
J-League: Let's Make a... 8 Euro Club+ (PSP) (October release)
Sonic: Lost World (Wii U) (October release)
Mario & Sonic at the Sochi Winter Games (WiiU) (November release)
Project Mirai 2 (3DS) (November release)
Hero Bank (3DS) (December release)
Ryu Ga Gotoku Ishin (PS3 / PS4) (February release)
Song Builder 575 for (Vita) (Spring release)
Project Diva F 2 for (Vita) (Spring release 2014)
Puyo Puyo Tetris for (3DS, WiiU, Vita, PS3) (Sometime 2014)
Dengeki Bunko Fight Climax (Sometime 2014)
And to expand on the talent attached, I've added their Mobygames profile so people can have a further look at their history in SEGA and the industry in general;
Phantasy Star Online 2: Episode 2
Series Producer: Satoshi Sakai (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,108469/)
Series Director: Yuya Kimura (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,539783/)
Producer Vita Ver: Yu Suganuma (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,539788/)
Phantasy Star Nova
Producer SEGA: Yasuyuki Tsuzuki (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,477451/)
Producer tri-Ace: Hiroyuki Tamura (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,152499/)
Director: Kohei Yamashita (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,507867/)
Music Director: Moto Sakuraba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motoi_Sakuraba) (Independent third party)
Ryu Ga Gotoku Ishin
Producer: Toshihiro Nagoshi
Producer: Masayoshi Yokoyama (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,224260/)
Sakatsuku 8
Producer: Mitsuhiro Shimano (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/by_title/developerId,388739/)
Director: Nobuhiro Suzuk (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/by_title/developerId,181190/)
Puyo Puyo Tetris:
Producer: Mizuki Hosoyamada (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,162198/)
Other names attached but not linked with development: Kaoru Sakura (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,510928/) and Kanako Kondo (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,480539/)
Song Builder 575
Assistant Producer: Daisuke Shimizu (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,95764/)
Hero Bank
Producer: Yoichi Shimosato (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,70924/)
Director: Yuko Yoshida (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,507895/)
(Considering the talent behind this worked on Shining Force and Valkyria, game being developed by SEGA's RPG team seems likely)
Samurai & Dragons
Producer: Riichiro Yamada (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,523043/)
Art Director: Chigaku Fukuhara (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,69423/)
(Considering the talent and the original producer was Masayoshi Kikuchi, very much seems like a side game by Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio)
Sonic: Lost World
Producer: Takashi Iizuka
Sound Director: Tomoya Ohtani (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,43626/)
Hatsune Miku Project Diva F 2
Producer: Seiji Hayashi (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,273372/)
2)Mainly because Sega west refuses to localise PS02 on time and YAKUZA 5.
Yeap, they have significant factors on how people perceive SEGA. Phantasy Star has always done relatively well in the West and a lot of die hard fans are down on SEGA for not bringing on PSO2. Yakuza is super niche title but its got a cult following, the type of people you find on message boards, infact if these two titles were brought over this year (Plus perhaps Valkyria Chronicles 3) people would be a lot more receptive about SEGA purchasing Atlus.
You only have to go back and see the positive reaction everyone had of SEGA purchasing Relic, they were all championing for it, it's only the mis-steps in 2013 that has caused this dramatic deterioration of SEGA's image. Guaranteed if tomorrow Yakuza 5, Ishin, Phantasy Star Nova, Online 2 and Puyo Puyo Tetris all had solid release dates, everyone would be clamoring about how great and varied SEGA are these days.
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Unless someone can make a great update and do it different but similar much like how Mario and Sonic has been able to last this long. Not impossible, just needs fresh ideas
Yes and what also helped Sonic and Mario is they were still selling good in the 32,64 bit days where as Mega Man didn't really sell great on the Saturn or PS
Again for the final time the arcade was NOT i repeat NOT enough to save the company in the end
Look for the last time . SEGA with out its consumer side would never have been in debt that is all I'm saying.
IT made 22 million
A profit not a loss, like you made out .
Thought they always posted a profit
You do know what 'least profitable' means ? It means you make a profit , just not a good one compared to other years .
In trouble in the second and third biggest game markets
You do make me laugh sometimes . Monster Hunter 4 alone has sold close to 2 million copies in a single week and GameBiz was on about a 'single game' not performing well in the UK and Japan and sure Lost Planet 3 looks a bit of dud but its not like Rome 2 set the UK charts alight only entering in at 21 if you want to play the charts game on one game.
The difference is capcom's userbase of core supporters are still there and if they leave which seems to be happening then Capcom would be in trouble.
Other than Sonic what IP has SEGA Japan got that sells a million copies . Capcom has the likes of DMC, Dead Rising, RE, Monster Hunter, Dragon's Dogma . That's the issue and trouble SEGA has to try and sort out. You might diss RE 6 but the simple fact is that title alone has sold better than nearly all the Yakuza games combined
Most of the games you mentioned rely on people outside of sega.
Well like Capcom that was mistake to outsource too many IP , but the poor Sonic games were made In-House, most of the MoneyBall games were made In-House , Nightshade was made In-House, So was NiGHTS 2, so was Project Altered Beast and they all left a bitter taste with fans.
SEGA got Sonic and PSO back on forum and the Yakuza Team are really good . But SEGA Japan still needs to up its game and also make a IP that will get the press and fans talking for all the right reasons
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MegaMan is an outdated IP and one that was seeing its sales and popularity decline on the Saturn and PS. Capcom did give the fans a new Mega Man game done in the old style and Capcom is even giving us a new Strider game , but the fans will bitch about that no doubt. I love SEGA to make a new Astal, a new Alex Kid but I'm not about to give SEGA a hard time for not wanting to go near IP where their best days are long behind them.
I do agree that Mega Man is an outdated IP, but the fans don't seem to think that it is (they consider Mega Man to be their "Sonic" in terms of an everlasting brand).
To be fair, they do have some bitching to do considering how Breath of Fire 6 is on tablets and how they've handled their newer IPs such as Dragon's Dogma and Asura's Wrath.
I think they also didn't advertise Darkstalkers on PSN enough either.
Capcom's fault of course for doing that, but it doesn't help how they're only catering to the Street Fighter and Monster hunter crowd and ignoring every single one of their other fanbases. Mega Man's fanbase is still pretty large despite it declining...the same can be said for even the Sonic fanbase when he had a tough few years.
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Yes and what also helped Sonic and Mario is they were still selling good in the 32,64 bit days where as Mega Man didn't really sell great on the Saturn or PS
Because nothing fresh has been done with it that's why.
Look for the last time . SEGA with out its consumer side would never have been in debt that is all I'm saying.
No you look for the FINAL time. That was never part of the argument. You decided to bring it up because you lost it. It doesn't matter about the consumer divison on whether it existed or not. That's not what happened. You said the arcades was enough to save Sega i said it isn't and its not enough now. History is on my side with that one. So stop spinning your nonsense and backtracking on what you said. DONE!
A profit not a loss, like you made out .
You do know what 'least profitable' means ? It means you make a profit , just not a good one compared to other years .
And you make a loss which is what capcom has done. Get it?
You do make me laugh sometimes .
And everyone is laughing at you.
Monster Hunter 4 alone has sold close to 2 million copies in a single week and GameBiz was on about a 'single game' not performing well in the UK and Japan and sure Lost Planet 3 looks a bit of dud but its not like Rome 2 set the UK charts alight only entering in at 21 if you want to play the charts game on one game.
ROME 2 made more money than LP3 try again kid.
Game biz? LOL listen kid i've been quoting from numerous gameindustry places and they all say he same thing. You have yet to actually prove me wrong on ALL counts. So until you do this debate is very over with. You really are a joke.
Other than Sonic what IP has SEGA Japan got that sells a million copies . Capcom has the likes of DMC, Dead Rising, RE, Monster Hunter, Dragon's Dogma . That's the issue and trouble SEGA has to try and sort out. You might diss RE 6 but the simple fact is that title alone has sold better than nearly all the Yakuza games combined
Yet Sega made the profit and not Capcom. Deal with it. I know its hard to but get over it that sega is succesful for once and not capcom.
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Well like Capcom that was mistake to outsource too many IP , but the poor Sonic games were made In-House, most of the MoneyBall games were made In-House , Nightshade was made In-House, So was NiGHTS 2, so was Project Altered Beast and they all left a bitter taste with fans.
KUNOCHI wasn't bad people complained because it wasn't SHINOBI 2. So get that straight. And most of that stuff was sorted out so its another moot point you're making.
SEGA got Sonic and PSO back on forum and the Yakuza Team are really good . But SEGA Japan still needs to up its game and also make a IP that will get the press and fans talking for all the right reasons
And look where they are. Following their own model and not Capcom's which you wanted them to do. If we all listen to you there wouldn't BE a Sega right now.
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Yeap, they have significant factors on how people perceive SEGA. Phantasy Star has always done relatively well in the West and a lot of die hard fans are down on SEGA for not bringing on PSO2. Yakuza is super niche title but its got a cult following, the type of people you find on message boards, infact if these two titles were brought over this year (Plus perhaps Valkyria Chronicles 3) people would be a lot more receptive about SEGA purchasing Atlus.
You only have to go back and see the positive reaction everyone had of SEGA purchasing Relic, they were all championing for it, it's only the mis-steps in 2013 that has caused this dramatic deterioration of SEGA's image. Guaranteed if tomorrow Yakuza 5, Ishin, Phantasy Star Nova, Online 2 and Puyo Puyo Tetris all had solid release dates, everyone would be clamoring about how great and varied SEGA are these days.
I'm pretty sure that's what will happen with Atlus USA. They'll be given some of the Sega niche titles to localise and most likely they and Atlus will be given more money to expand their operations to handle games of that size, which is what happened with both Sports Interactive and Creative Assembly after the acquisition from Sega was made final.
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Monster Hunter 4 alone has sold close to 2 million copies in a single week and GameBiz was on about a 'single game' not performing well in the UK and Japan and sure Lost Planet 3 looks a bit of dud but its not like Rome 2 set the UK charts alight only entering in at 21 if you want to play the charts game on one game.
What? Rome II entered the charts as the top selling individual software (http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p%2Fsoftware%2Fuk%2Farchive%2Findex_test.jsp&ct=110032&arch=t&lyr=2013&year=2013&week=36) on the week of its release and second best selling combined formats chart; it fell to tenth the following week and NOW sits at 21st, not when it launched. This was after selling 105,000 units on its first week of sales in the United Kingdom and doing triple the sales of the original and one of the biggest launches this year. Sales across Europe and America would probably ensure the title is an easy million seller.
Trying to dress up Rome II as some kind of failure is just not sticking to the facts, it's going to end up being one of, it not, the most successful Total War title at the rate it's selling.
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I'm pretty sure that's what will happen with Atlus USA. They'll be given some of the Sega niche titles to localise and most likely they and Atlus will be given more money to expand their operations to handle games of that size, which is what happened with both Sports Interactive and Creative Assembly after the acquisition from Sega was made final.
I'd welcome and even push for that myself, Atlus has a ability to turn otherwise niche pieces of software into a sustainable business model by turning them into moderately successful 100,000 - 200,000 sellers in the United States (With similar figures in Europe) and we know SEGA Japan has no issue with moderate sellers, as shown by their continued support of titles like 7th Dragon.
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What? Rome II entered the charts as the top selling individual software (http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p%2Fsoftware%2Fuk%2Farchive%2Findex_test.jsp&ct=110032&arch=t&lyr=2013&year=2013&week=36) on the week of its release and second best selling combined formats chart; it fell to tenth the following week and NOW sits at 21st, not when it launched. This was after selling 105,000 units on its first week of sales in the United Kingdom and doing triple the sales of the original and one of the biggest launches this year. Sales across Europe and America would probably ensure the title is an easy million seller.
Trying to dress up Rome II as some kind of failure is just not sticking to the facts, it's going to end up being one of, it not, the most successful Total War title at the rate it's selling.
And that's what i'm talking about, Aki. TA comes out with such ridiculous statements that isn't true in order to prolong the argument and distract people from the original issue that was raised. The next thing he will say is that the game doesn't count because its not an original Sega game. Now at least some people can understand what i've been dealing with after all these years. When you dont go into a debate with him, he's fine but you say something he disagres with..god help the topic.
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I'd welcome and even push for that myself, Atlus has a ability to turn otherwise niche pieces of software into a sustainable business model by turning them into moderately successful 100,000 - 200,000 sellers in the United States (With similar figures in Europe) and we know SEGA Japan has no issue with moderate sellers, as shown by their continued support of titles like 7th Dragon.
Actually has anyone realised that Etrian Odyssey can continue now because 7th Dragon has gone into a totally new direction? Funny that.
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@Aki-at
alot of these people are pretty much producers of smaller stuff that Sega has always been making (Shining, Puyo, Sports games...), since the GBA really.
CS3 had nothing as of note for a good while, till they came out with Valkyria in 08 out of nowhere. I hope for a similar situation.
Well like Capcom that was mistake to outsource too many IP , but the poor Sonic games were made In-House, most of the MoneyBall games were made In-House , Nightshade was made In-House, So was NiGHTS 2, so was Project Altered Beast and they all left a bitter taste with fans.
Capcom isn't unguilty of that either. Final Fight and some of the later Megaman X games.
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Actually has anyone realised that Etrian Odyssey can continue now because 7th Dragon has gone into a totally new direction? Funny that.
Oh yes, the thought came into my mind, was wondering what would happen to Etrian Odyssey now but recalled 7th Dragon's radical change in design, wonder what caused that.
@Aki-at
alot of these people are pretty much producers of smaller stuff that Sega has always been making (Shining, Puyo, Sports games...), since the GBA really.
CS3 had nothing as of note for a good while, till they came out with Valkyria in 08 out of nowhere. I hope for a similar situation.
We do know that Sonic Team's Sonic Unleashed/Core Generations team and Ryu Ga Gotoku's Yakuza 5 team are unaccounted for and I am surprised after a long time we have not heard anything about a new Shining game.
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Trying to dress up Rome II as some kind of failure is just not sticking to the facts, it's going to end up being one of, it not, the most successful Total War title at the rate it's selling.
Never said it was a failure just listing where it was in the charts. Compared to Monster Hunter sales its nothing
Because nothing fresh has been done with it that's why
Well they tried it with a turn based RPG and that just didn't work out . Its a IP that had its day and was dated .
You said the arcades was enough to save Sega
They would have With no consumer side SEGA wouldn't have posted massive losses and never would have been sold off to Sammy . SEGA would have been doing very well and with decent levels of cash , but the consumer side blew that apart.
And you make a loss which is what capcom has done.
They didn't make a loss in 2010 . Least profitable doesn't mean a loss I think you find.
ROME 2 made more money than LP3 try again kid
More money than Monster Hunter 4 ? Maybe its you that needs to try again .
Yet Sega made the profit and not Capcom
Capcom didn't make a loss and also unlike SEGA Capcom hasn't posted a loss this generation . SEGA has and its consumer side has barley broken even for most of this gereration .
KUNOCHI wasn't bad people complained because it wasn't SHINOBI 2
It was poor and looked like a PS game and not a PS2 title . Compared to actions games like O.TO. GI 2, DMC 3 it was an utter joke .
And most of that stuff was sorted out so its another moot point you're making.
Monkeyball isn't sorted out on the consoles , Shinobi, NiGHTS, Aletered Beast all in limbo and far from sorted out on the consoles and Shinobi on the 3D sucked
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We do know that Sonic Team's Sonic Unleashed/Core Generations team and Ryu Ga Gotoku's Yakuza 5 team are unaccounted for and I am surprised after a long time we have not heard anything about a new Shining game.
Hopefully they stopped making and spend money on worthwhile things!
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Never said it was a failure just listing where it was in the charts. Compared to Monster Hunter sales its nothing
Compared to Monster Hunter sales in europe and America FOOTBALL MANAGER and TOTAL WAR has trounced it. And again you were suggesting that the game was a flop and it wasn't as well as the fact its still in the charts.
Well they tried it with a turn based RPG and that just didn't work out . Its a IP that had its day and was dated .
They did that with Sonic, which didn't work either. I'm talking about refreshing the gameplay and style of the core game that Mario and Sonic respective series has enjoyed over the last two decades.
They would have With no consumer side SEGA wouldn't have posted massive losses and never would have been sold off to Sammy . SEGA would have been doing very well and with decent levels of cash , but the consumer side blew that apart.
No TA you originally pointed out that the arcade side was what turned a profit during Sega's turbulant period and would so again. I said that it wasn't enough to save it and it couldn't save it now. That was the point and you lost it. now you are coming up a completely different spin. You lost the argument, end of.
They didn't make a loss in 2010 . Least profitable doesn't mean a loss I think you find.
They made 22 million. thats bad for a company the size of capcom and you know it. That's a big loss on profit that didn't come in.
More money than Monster Hunter 4 ? Maybe its you that needs to try again .
One game ohhhh getting desperate now.
Capcom didn't make a loss and also unlike SEGA Capcom hasn't posted a loss this generation . SEGA has and its consumer side has barley broken even for most of this gereration .
2010 and 2013 is PART of this gen so yep they have made a loss this gen.
It was poor and looked like a PS game and not a PS2 title . Compared to actions games like O.TO. GI 2, DMC 3 it was an utter joke .
Not to those who played the game. The backlash however was people wanted a sequel to SHINOBI but instead got a spin off game.
Monkeyball isn't sorted out on the consoles , Shinobi, NiGHTS, Aletered Beast all in limbo and far from sorted out on the consoles and Shinobi on the 3D sucked
MONKEYBALL is still and the others aren't games that Sega even relies on anymore. Moot point.
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Oh yes, the thought came into my mind, was wondering what would happen to Etrian Odyssey now but recalled 7th Dragon's radical change in design, wonder what caused that.
We do know that Sonic Team's Sonic Unleashed/Core Generations team and Ryu Ga Gotoku's Yakuza 5 team are unaccounted for and I am surprised after a long time we have not heard anything about a new Shining game.
Well the last new SHINING game was Excelia for arcades.
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Compared to Monster Hunter sales in europe and America FOOTBALL MANAGER and TOTAL WAR has trounced it
The last Football Manager game last time I checked wasn't a million seller and Monster Hunter 4 has sold more copies in Japan that Total War will ever manage world wide - the series has never sold 2 million for a single entry into the series.
I'm talking about refreshing the gameplay and style of the core game that Mario and Sonic respective series has enjoyed over the last two decades.
Ok fair point.
No TA you originally pointed out that the arcade side was what turned a profit during Sega's turbulant period and would so again.
I just made out that the Arcade side has always done well and posted very good profits even at the time of Arcades sharp decline in the West.
They made 22 million. thats bad for a company the size of capcom and you know it
$22 Million net profit is good for any cooperation the size of Capcom (with some 1000-15000 staff).
2010 and 2013 is PART of this gen
What part of Capcom not posting a loss in 2010 do you not understand ? . And you keep going on about this year from Capcom , even though it posted a profit;when SEGA had to restructure its self it cost them $85 million in losses and SEGA also lost key staff.
The backlash however was people wanted a sequel to SHINOBI but instead got a spin off game
Nobody cares about a spin off when a spin off is happens to be good . Nightshade and to a point Shinobi on the PS2 - Saw SEGA go from simply the best at Ninja games in the 16 bit days to be totally outclassed by Fromsoftware O.TO.GI , Temco Ninja Gaiden even Tatio's Bujingai that was the reality .
MONKEYBALL is still and the others aren't games that Sega even relies on anymore
Monkeyball last entry on a home console was just very basic stuff and a far cry from the magic of the Cube games and the IP I listed all all ones that have been far from sorted out on the consoles .
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The last Football Manager game last time I checked wasn't a million seller and Monster Hunter 4 has sold more copies in Japan that Total War will ever manage world wide - the series has never sold 2 million for a single entry into the series.
According to you Japan is a dead market compared to the west. And again MH has never sold as strong as FOOTBALL MANAGER and TOTAL WAR combined in the west. But if were talking about 2 million sellers then i will throw in 2 million respectivly for KINGDOM CONQUEST 2 and PSO2 which one you have to pay for and two the second you activly have to pay money for. Which is WHY sega is making more money.
Ok fair point.
Another point you lost. Three-0 to me so far. Four if you count ISHIN.
I just made out that the Arcade side has always done well and posted very good profits even at the time of Arcades sharp decline in the West.
And it wasn't enough to save the company. Talk about flogging a dead horse.
$22 Million net profit is good for any cooperation the size of Capcom (with some 1000-15000 staff).
Oh wait now you are admitting they posted 22 million?
What part of Capcom not posting a loss in 2010 do you not understand ? . And you keep going on about this year from Capcom , even though it posted a profit;when SEGA had to restructure its self it cost them $85 million in losses and SEGA also lost key staff.
They DIDN'T. What part of loss don't you understand. Everyone from people who deal with these things to fans to the COO of the frigging company has said thatt things have been bad recently and they need to deal with it. LOSS get it. Games not meeting their sales targets across the board. Operating costs higher than their actual profit. lOSS LOSS L-O-S-S.
Nobody cares about a spin off when a spin off is happens to be good . Nightshade and to a point Shinobi on the PS2 - Saw SEGA go from simply the best at Ninja games in the 16 bit days to be totally outclassed by Fromsoftware O.TO.GI , Temco Ninja Gaiden even Tatio's Bujingai that was the reality .
That's your opinion. These things go in cycles. And if SHINOBI had been released on the console it was developed for the DC it probably would been better rememberbed. OTOGI by the way wasn't a ninja game so it doesn't count. Your just picking on SHINOBI PS2 because it didn't appearon your precious Xbox.But the reality is that things with Sega has improved since then.
Monkeyball last entry on a home console was just very basic stuff and a far cry from the magic of the Cube games and the IP I listed all all ones that have been far from sorted out on the consoles .
The cube games were arcade ports which Sega ended up exploiting with various follow ups. That's what usually happens when an arcade title from Sega is taken over to a degree by the consumer side. Weve seen it happen with GOLDEN AXE OUTRUN and countless others. You should be use to that by now.
Now trying to point out a few games doesn't mean a thing because the bottom line is Capcom made a loss and Sega didn't. You as a Sega fan should be happy. But no you are comparing things that has happened to Sega years ago as a reason to make out Capcom is better. All Capcom is good at is marketing but not even the best marketing could save the bomb that was Lost Planet a game you have been championing for. Their estabilshed IP is getting tired and their new stuff is crap. The complete opposite with Sega who at least are doing something new with their Ip and releasing games that people want to check out or making moves people are talking about. Is it all perfect, no but the point is that its mananged to work and they are in a position to sort out what doesn't work to improve the company and relations with fans. When you are losing money faster than a sinking ship you don't have the room to manevbor to sort yourself out and usually it can take years to do it much like what happened with Sega in their times of trouble AFTER the DC.
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According to you Japan is a dead market compared to the west
It is unless you're Square, Nintendo or on handhelds .
And again MH has never sold as strong as FOOTBALL MANAGER and TOTAL WAR
When was the last time a Football Manager game sold more than 2 million copies , same goes for Total War ? .
And it wasn't enough to save the company
No but the point you overlook is with out the consumer side it would have been more than good enough.
Oh wait now you are admitting they posted 22 million
I'm not the one making out Capcom posted a loss in 2010 you are and you're wrong .
COO of the frigging company has said thatt things have been bad recently and they need to deal with it.
Most CEO of all games companies has been saying much the same and lots of gaming corps have been spending billions on restructuring be that Capcom, SEGA, SONY, EA and so on.
Games not meeting their sales targets across the board
RE 6 might not hit 7 but its sold 5 million . When was the last time SEGA had a single game that sold 5 million copies on a console , over than Mario & Sonic none came close .
Your just picking on SHINOBI PS2 because it didn't appearon your precious Xbox.But the reality is that things with Sega has improved since then.
No it just came up way short of DMC,Ninja Gaiden and O.TO.GI like SEGA's other actions game Blood Will Tell, GunGrave. I think most people expected better from SEGA and not for SEGA to be so outclassed even by Temco with Ninja Gaiden - Now that is what Shinobi on the PS2 should really have been like .
The cube games were arcade ports which Sega ended up exploiting with various follow ups
Monkey Ball 2 wasn't a port not that really makes any difference .
Weve seen it happen with GOLDEN AXE OUTRUN and countless others.
Most of them were pretty good when handle directly by SEGA Japan.
All Capcom is good at is marketing but not even the best marketing could save the bomb that was Lost Planet a game you have been championing for
Lost Planet 1 and 2 weren't bombs at all and sold better than any current SEGA IP (bar Sonic) you can bring up. Sure Lost Planet 3 is a flop but SEGA had plenty of them too .
Sega who at least are doing something new with their Ip and releasing games that people want to check out or making moves people are talking about.
They're doing nothing of the short . Just more Sonic, more Yakuza and more PSO and even more Lets Make a Football team . No new IP, Nothing orginal and nothing like the SEGA of old.
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It is unless you're Square, Nintendo or on handhelds .
Capcom being one of the biggest third parties yes it is a failure. Dont paint them like they are a small gun.
When was the last time a Football Manager game sold more than 2 million copies , same goes for Total War ? .
When was the last timeMonster Hunter sold that in the west? You couldn't even get the sales of the recent TW right. LOL
No but the point you overlook is with out the consumer side it would have been more than good enough.
No the point you overlooked is that it haS NOTHING to do with the argument. You lost it. Its finished. Stop spinning hypothecticals on something that NEVER HAPPENED!
I'm not the one making out Capcom posted a loss in 2010 you are and you're wrong .
Then the COO and the buisness web sites and newspapers as well as the millions of capcom fans are also wrong. Grow up TA. You've been more wrong than i ever have.
Most CEO of all games companies has been saying much the same and lots of gaming corps have been spending billions on restructuring be that Capcom, SEGA, SONY, EA and so on.
Yes when they all made a big loss just like Capcom is at the moment. Thank you for finally agreeing with me.
RE 6 might not hit 7 but its sold 5 million . When was the last time SEGA had a single game that sold 5 million copies on a console , over than Mario & Sonic none came close .
MARIO AND SONIC sold 10 million and combined this gen way more than RE put together. So try again. Re7 is one game. Most of their games have failed to hit the estimated targets which means that the titles made a loss which means the company as a whole made a loss. So did their digital divison. So did the arcades and many other things. So using this and that to prove your point when you haven't shown anything to counter the point apart from your say so is childish, and screams of zealously.
No it just came up way short of DMC,Ninja Gaiden and O.TO.GI like SEGA's other actions game Blood Will Tell, GunGrave. I think most people expected better from SEGA and not for SEGA to be so outclassed even by Temco with Ninja Gaiden - Now that is what Shinobi on the PS2 should really have been like .
Sega never made GUNGRAVE they just published it for Red. OTOGI isn't an ninja game so again you are wrong. 5-0 to me. SHINOBI PS2 isn't crap and neither is KUNOICHI. It was one of the few Sega games from that period that fans thought was good. I dont care about NG or the others i care as any sega fan SHOULD do is whether the game itself was good and it was.
Monkey Ball 2 wasn't a port not that really makes any difference .
It was actually a port with added material. Keep it up, me laddio.
Most of them were pretty good when handle directly by SEGA Japan.
It was SOJ that ended screwing it up.
Lost Planet 1 and 2 weren't bombs at all and sold better than any current SEGA IP (bar Sonic) you can bring up. Sure Lost Planet 3 is a flop but SEGA had plenty of them too .
LP3 was and you know full way that i was talking about that. But then LP wasn't a great game to begin with and now that people see it for what it is the game has been panned and bombed. And this is the direction you wanted Sega to take.LOL.RGG has sold better than LP has and that's including the spin offs. You will keep touting the initial figures but i know the FINAL figures of the game ie how much it ended up making the final figure. Sega only gives out initial figures in their public reports, they never give you the real final figure because the stock holders are privvy to that info.
They're doing nothing of the short . Just more Sonic, more Yakuza and more PSO and even more Lets Make a Football team . No new IP, Nothing orginal and nothing like the SEGA of old.
It wont be the sega of old because the sega of old were a console manufacturer. This is Sega as a third party part 2. Second They have actually and still continuing to do. This generation alone can attest to that compared to the crap capcom flogged. But you being anti Sega wouldn't want to see that. Because seeing more RE, DMC, MARVEL VS whoever LP done to death etc etc etc. Some thing that Capcom is more guilty of than Sega will ever be.
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The last Football Manager game last time I checked wasn't a million seller and Monster Hunter 4 has sold more copies in Japan that Total War will ever manage world wide - the series has never sold 2 million for a single entry into the series.
FBM 2013 absolutely broke a million. (https://plus.google.com/106110063568752201513/posts/RrSVfyrn3HA) and in 2012 with only an expansion released Total War did over 2 million in sales for the overall series.
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It was actually a port with added material. Keep it up, me laddio.
Unless the internet missed it, I think you might be wrong here. I remembered this being a game built for consoles, and....I can't find anything on a "Monkey Ball 2" anywhere.
I really wish you guys would use sources in these arguments. I read so much that I've never heard of before, but I never know if I can take it seriously.
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Unless the internet missed it, I think you might be wrong here. I remembered this being a game built for consoles, and....I can't find anything on a "Monkey Ball 2" anywhere.
I really wish you guys would use sources in these arguments. I read so much that I've never heard of before, but I never know if I can take it seriously.
Sourced my argument :/ unless you want a link for the Total War number, thought that was common knowledge? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=79142497 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=79142497)
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Unless the internet missed it, I think you might be wrong here.
Of course he is . It was built from the ground up for the Cube and made for the home that's why it had an expanded story mode .
unless you want a link for the Total War number, thought that was common knowledge
Well that's different to SEGA/Sammy figures in its stock report to the market . Where Total War didn't sell close to 2 million . If you want to count every entry in the series then I guess it would be then 2 million copies , but there if one was to count all the MH entries its sales are way better than 2 million.
Capcom being one of the biggest third parties yes it is a failure
Big in IP and sales, small in terms of manpower with just some 1500 staff compared to the likes of SEGA and the bigger corps in Japan that's small.
You couldn't even get the sales of the recent TW right
I have , but if you want to count every entry in the series then fine , on that score Monster Hunter is sales monster.
No the point you overlooked is that it haS NOTHING to do with the argument
Of course it does . It shows that the Arcade business is still strong , that the point you fail to grasp .
Then the COO and the buisness web sites and newspapers as well as the millions of capcom fans are also wrong.
No of them are saying Capcom are in debt or reported a loss and we it was all doom and gloom here where SEGA had to restructure and post a massive loss, butcher its USA staff and cancel loads of projects . When SEGA had to post its expects Extraordinary losses just the other year .
MARIO AND SONIC sold 10 million and combined this gen way more than RE put together.
I said other than SONIC and Mario :)) . You can't name me a IP that comes close to RE sales from SEGA and btw since you want to go on about missing targets Sonic and Mario London Olympics misses its sales targets too by a million, not that changes it was a great seller .
Sega never made GUNGRAVE they just published it for Red.
So there were have it . All that bullshit about Bayonetta is just that. Bayonetta an IP published by SEGA but not made by SEGA just like Gungrave lol.
SHINOBI PS2 isn't crap and neither is KUNOICHI
Never said PS2 Shinobi was crap , it was totally outlcassed by Ninja Gaiden and well Nightshade was a bit of turd really and worst still it looked like a PS game . Compared to the other action games its was a joke .
It was actually a port with added material.
Totally and utterly wrong . Coming from Mr SEGA this is so embarrassing its not even funny.
It was SOJ that ended screwing it up
No Most of the OutRun and Golden Axe games made in-House were good . No issues at all with Golden Axe 2,3, Revenge and Duel and the likes of Turbo Outrun, OutRun 2 were brilliant .
LP3 was and you know full way that i was talking about that
Aye it is , but the Lost Plannet 1 and II weren't.
This is Sega as a third party part 2
So... Ubisoft and the likes of Capcom are just that and yet they can come up with new IP as well as make sequels to past IP.
RE, DMC, MARVEL VS whoever LP done to death etc etc et
And yet its ok for SEGA to make more Yakuza , more Sonic and more PSO, More Total Rome, more Football Manager is it . Already for the PS3 Capcom got a new IP ready to go.. what we get from SEGA oh that's right more Yakuza lol.
You'll over the shop again .
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Well that's different to SEGA/Sammy figures in its stock report to the market . Where Total War didn't sell close to 2 million . If you want to count every entry in the series then I guess it would be then 2 million copies , but there if one was to count all the MH entries its sales are way better than 2 million.
Obviously not, but considering the only release in 2012 was an expansion it's impressive catalog sales. Total War is a big franchise, you need to remember that PC is a platform that is catalog-sales centric. Catalog sales each year for TW are a big part of the franchise's total sales.
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Of course he is . It was built from the ground up for the Cube and made for the home that's why it had an expanded story mode .
No not really. If anyone played the arcade version then you'd relise that's exactly what SMB2 is. Also Sega did release SMB2 SAKURA EDITION with the arcade version in it. Though there isn't a difference in my opinion. So try again me laddio.
Well that's different to SEGA/Sammy figures in its stock report to the market . Where Total War didn't sell close to 2 million . If you want to count every entry in the series then I guess it would be then 2 million copies , but there if one was to count all the MH entries its sales are way better than 2 million.
Sign when you see the sales of TW and FB you only see the monthly sales or what it made in its first week of release. The Segasammy stock reports never show you the actual final number to the public. Most of those games has sold onto a million or more. Point is MH has never sold that much over here. And it isn't strong enough to stop Cacom posting a miserable loss.
Big in IP and sales, small in terms of manpower with just some 1500 staff compared to the likes of SEGA and the bigger corps in Japan that's small.
You argured that Capcom was bigger than Sega at one point and now they're small. LOL how you keep turning. Capcom is still a big corp despite their size. Sega's bigger because they have more assets than Capcom but that doesn't mean Capcom isn't one of the big leaguers. That's the point you FAILED to understand.
I have , but if you want to count every entry in the series then fine , on that score Monster Hunter is sales monster.
No you haven't.
Of course it does . It shows that the Arcade business is still strong , that the point you fail to grasp .
I'm not the one who keeps continuing an argument he lost two pages ago. You really are sad.
No of them are saying Capcom are in debt or reported a loss and we it was all doom and gloom here where SEGA had to restructure and post a massive loss, butcher its USA staff and cancel loads of projects . When SEGA had to post its expects Extraordinary losses just the other year .
Not compared to Capcom. Big losses in 2005, big losses in 2010 and another big loss 2013. Yeah Capcom is really doing well this gen.
I said other than SONIC and Mario :)) . You can't name me a IP that comes close to RE sales from SEGA and btw since you want to go on about missing targets Sonic and Mario London Olympics misses its sales targets too by a million, not that changes it was a great seller .
MARIO AND SONIC was made and published by Sega. Sorry but an adult debate doesn't work by you taking out one of the games that does do well so you can win your juvenile argument.
So there were have it . All that bullshit about Bayonetta is just that. Bayonetta an IP published by SEGA but not made by SEGA just like Gungrave lol.
Sega of america published GUNGRAVE. Sega Japan never owned the ip Never funded the game or published the game in Japan.They just distrubuted it and SOA localised it. Completly different to BAYONETTA, a game funded by, owned by and published by Sega. Oh yes they also funded the BAYONETTA movie coming out as well as licensed it for Nintendo to use. Try again lad.
Never said PS2 Shinobi was crap , it was totally outlcassed by Ninja Gaiden and well Nightshade was a bit of turd really and worst still it looked like a PS game . Compared to the other action games its was a joke .
No you were trying to say SHINOBI was crap. And it didn't look like a PS game at all. So give it up.
Totally and utterly wrong . Coming from Mr SEGA this is so embarrassing its not even funny.
Really? So what the hell would you call GOLDEN AXE 2 then? The same frigging game. All they did was change the sprites and the locales. It was pratically the same game. Anyone who has played the arcade game would have spot that straight away. But considering your the guy who cant even get the sales of FOOTBALL MANAGER and TOTAL WAR correct i wouldn't expect nothing less.
No Most of the OutRun and Golden Axe games made in-House were good . No issues at all with Golden Axe 2,3, Revenge and Duel and the likes of Turbo Outrun, OutRun 2 were brilliant .
GA 2 and 3 were crap. REVENGE AND DUEL were made for the arcades. That's the difference. When Sega continues a series soley for consoles the game usually loses its spart. Dont bother throwing in actual arcade sequels because that was never the point as was MADE clear in the original post. You just proven me correct by the fact you had to throw in the arcade sequels.
Aye it is , but the Lost Plannet 1 and II weren't.
Wasn't talking about lost planet 1 and 2. You've become desperate now.
So... Ubisoft and the likes of Capcom are just that and yet they can come up with new IP as well as make sequels to past IP.
So does Sega. A point you continue to ignore.
And yet its ok for SEGA to make more Yakuza , more Sonic and more PSO, More Total Rome, more Football Manager is it . Already for the PS3 Capcom got a new IP ready to go.. what we get from SEGA oh that's right more Yakuza lol.
Sega has 1 PSO game coming in the form of NOVA. Capcom releases about 4 games in the same franchise ayear. Compared to Capcom, Sega is minimal because there games are at least mostly follow ups.
So has Sega, hasn't been announced yet. And there's plenty of new IP from them coming on other platforms. But you being a Sega insider would have known that.
You'll over the shop again .
No you are. I'm not the one who's been pointed out how incorrect they are 4 timnes now by different posters who has taken the time to read any of our posts. So its not me who is all over the shop its you.
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Obviously not, but considering the only release in 2012 was an expansion it's impressive catalog sales. Total War is a big franchise, you need to remember that PC is a platform that is catalog-sales centric. Catalog sales each year for TW are a big part of the franchise's total sales.
The sad thing is TA delights in saying how bad Sega is all the time. When they are doing well he then has to make things up to continue the lie. To him if it isn't Capcom or a million plus seller it doesn't count. The point why Sega has done well is that they have made sure that they have created games that reach their respective targets from the high end like YAKUZA and SONIC to the low end like SHINING whatever and the games inbetween. And then there's Sega Toys.That's how Sega's consumer division at least in video games have been succesful for a while now.
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No not really. If anyone played the arcade version then you'd relise that's exactly what SMB2
Monkey Ball 2 was never an Arcade game, you've just been found out ::). Many games have started out in the Arcades only to then become console only games like Ninja Gaiden , Ace Combat , Shinobi, Ridge Racer.
The Segasammy stock reports never show you the actual final number to the public
They do you download them in PDF form. In fact most of them are on Sammy website to download right now
Point is MH has never sold that much over here
It sells million in Japan alone , its not like Total war is going to be a massive seller in Japan now is it ?
You argured that Capcom was bigger than Sega at one point and now they're small
Not a chance . Always said that If Capcom with less staff and less money can make big IP, take risks on new IP and have a Multi Purpose, Multi Platform engine then there's no excuse why SEGA couldn't .
I'm not the one who keeps continuing an argument
Download Sammy reports and see most of its profits come form the Arcade side - Thus showing the Arcade sector is and was bigger enough . Sadly SEGA consumer side cost it dear .
Not compared to Capcom. Big losses in 2005, big losses in 2010 and another big loss 2013.
LOL. Capcom made a loss in 2004 (not 2005) it didn't make a loss in 2010 and not in 2013 and compared to SEGA loss in 2008 Capcom 2004 loss was tiny.
MARIO AND SONIC was made and published by Sega.
Wasn't published by SEGA in Japan and its pretty sad that the only title you can bring up is a SEGA and Nintendo cross over .
It was pratically the same game. Anyone who has played the arcade game would have spot that straight away.
Kind of what SEGA does with Yakuza these days ;) :P . Golden Axe 2 still played well enough though .
REVENGE AND DUEL were made for the arcades
Duel was also made with home in mide and so what if they were made for the Arcade the point is the quailty bar was there . So again you are wrong
No you were trying to say SHINOBI was crap
Never said it crap at all , just really adverage . Nightshade is crap and looks like crap too and well boths games compared to Ninja Gaiden were outclassed .
So does Sega. A point you continue to ignore
These new IP would be ? Other than some quick cash-ins on music based games and the brilliant Binary Domain and Val I can't think of a new Major AAA IP for the consoles (not handheld)
Sega has 1 PSO game coming in the form of NOVA
Nothing new though .
Compared to Capcom, Sega is minimal because there games are at least mostly follow ups.
LOL . How many Yakuza games and spin off had we had now ?. loads not bad for a IP that only came into being in 2005 .
And there's plenty of new IP from them coming on other platforms
What new IP has SEGA showed off for PS4 , XBox 1 ? Other than Yakuza I've seen nothing
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Monkey Ball 2 was never an Arcade game, you've just been found out ::).
Never said there was an arcade sequel. I said it was a port with bits and bods added to it. Anyone with KNOWLEDGE of arcade games and a simple grasp of the english language would know exactly what i meant. All SMB 2 is is a port of the first game with added material with 2 plastered on. That's exactly what SUPERMONKEY BALL 2 SAKURA EDITION was as well. You'd KNOWN that if you actually played the original. ::)
Many games have started out in the Arcades only to then become console only games like Ninja Gaiden , Ace Combat , Shinobi, Ridge Racer.
You don't say. ::) Again Sega has a history of continuing an arcade game onto consoles as exclusives. But most of the time the console versions are very poor compared to the arcade original. We have seen that with countless series from Sega including GOLDEN AXE and OUTRUN. Even SHINOBI had some poor entries in the series with only the console made REVENGE OF SHINOBI and SHINOBI 3 being the highlights and exception to the rule.
They do you download them in PDF form. In fact most of them are on Sammy website to download right now
No they dont. The shareholders are privy to the actual sales and breakdowns which are never available to the public ones.
It sells million in Japan alone , its not like Total war is going to be a massive seller in Japan now is it ?
So does TW sell a million in the UK alone.
Not a chance . Always said that If Capcom with less staff and less money can make big IP, take risks on new IP and have a Multi Purpose, Multi Platform engine then there's no excuse why SEGA couldn't .
And yet Sega has posted the profits and Capcom isn't. Go figure.
Download Sammy reports and see most of its profits come form the Arcade side - Thus showing the Arcade sector is and was bigger enough . Sadly SEGA consumer side cost it dear .
No. Most of the profits come from Sammy's panchinko side which make most of the money for the company. The arcade side was not enough to get Sega back in the black in the early noughties. I twasn't enough to stop Sega being taken over from Sammy. Which is why you are downloading Segasammy reports and NOT SEGA REPORTS. The point is arcade has not ben enough to save the company. Accept that and move on. Your childish attempts to prolong an argument you lost with things that was never a factor is laughable and making you more of a joke as usual.
LOL. Capcom made a loss in 2004 (not 2005) it didn't mak
e a loss in 2010 and not in 2013 and compared to SEGA loss in 2008 Capcom 2004 loss was tiny.
It made a loss in 2005 it made a loss in 2010 and it made a loss in 2013. But now i can add 2004 to the list. Thanks.
Wasn't published by SEGA in Japan and its pretty sad that the only title you can bring up is a SEGA and Nintendo cross over
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Its a game funded by Sega THAT Sega had to pay the license for the Olympic brand alone. That made more money than Resident Evil did. Its sad you can't accept that fact.
Kind of what SEGA does with Yakuza these days ;) :P . Golden Axe 2 still played well enough though .
Duel was also made with home in mide and so what if they were made for the Arcade the point is the quailty bar was there . So again you are wrong
No im not. The megadrive GA games as well as the GG spin offs were terrible. Only REVENGE and to a small degree DUEL brought some saving grace back to that series before BEAST RIDER killed it again. The same with OUTRUN 2 with the atrocious games that appeared on the MS and MD and even some of its arcade spin offs weren't good come to think of it.
Never said it crap at all , just really adverage . Nightshade is crap and looks like crap too and well boths games compared to Ninja Gaiden were outclassed .
Yep you did. and no KUNOICHI isn't crap.
These new IP would be ? Other than some quick cash-ins on music based games and the brilliant Binary Domain and Val I can't think of a new Major AAA IP for the consoles (not handheld)
Still new IP though across all formats.
Nothing new though .
LOL . How many Yakuza games and spin off had we had now ?. loads not bad for a IP that only came into being in 2005 .
5 core titles with 3 side games and two spin offs. Much less compared to Resident Evil has had in the same time frame.
What new IP has SEGA showed off for PS4 , XBox 1 ? Other than Yakuza I've seen nothing
Now you've been found out yet again. Sega has games coming for the system as well for the current generation. They even stated as much on the bloody public reports. Being a know it all you even missed that simple fact.
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Yep you did. and no KUNOICHI isn't crap.
I want to ask about that game. Is it easier then the first Shinobi game on PS2? The problem I have with most Shinobi games is the difficulty (I suck at pretty much every Shinobi game). Is the difficulty, in addition to the controls and overall camera design better?
I may buy it.
And I see a lot of spaces in TA's posts, which I am gathering was a glitch in the post limits or something?
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And I see a lot of spaces in TA's posts, which I am gathering was a glitch in the post limits or something?
Nah it's no glitch, either hes using a browser that does that, which would make no sense cause there is no browser known to do that to SMF.
He probably just gets really excited hits enter 50+ times :)
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Ah I see...probably Internet Explorer since it's notorious for doing silly stuff like that.
Unless it's a phone browser.
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I want to ask about that game. Is it easier then the first Shinobi game on PS2? The problem I have with most Shinobi games is the difficulty (I suck at pretty much every Shinobi game). Is the difficulty, in addition to the controls and overall camera design better?
I may buy it.
And I see a lot of spaces in TA's posts, which I am gathering was a glitch in the post limits or something?
Not as difficult as Shinobi until a certain point but I found Hibina's movements a lot easier than Hotsuma's.
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If you think this is one of SEGA's worse year's ever, it just goes to show you how spoiled we have gotten.
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If you think this is one of SEGA's worse year's ever, it just goes to show you how spoiled we have gotten.
We have been spoiled since the Dreamcast days, anything that doesn't even come close to that you hear many people complaining Sega has lost its way.
In terms of Sega DNA titles its not been great. In terms of business its been excellent. In terms of certain titles that Sega publishes its been a mix bag.
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I want to ask about that game. Is it easier then the first Shinobi game on PS2? The problem I have with most Shinobi games is the difficulty (I suck at pretty much every Shinobi game). Is the difficulty, in addition to the controls and overall camera design better?
I may buy it.
And I see a lot of spaces in TA's posts, which I am gathering was a glitch in the post limits or something?
As Kori said its much easier. I prefer SHINOBI and KUNOICHI because they at least tried to do something different to the games that were out there at he time. And its a good throwback to old solid gameplay.
Once you master the games"tagging" attack system it soon becomes a blast especially once you unlock the secret characters. My advice is master KUNOICHI first and then go for SHINOBI.
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If you think this is one of SEGA's worse year's ever, it just goes to show you how spoiled we have gotten.
What are the best games from Sega this year for you George? Personally I've only bought CoH2 and that's something Sega just picked up at a car boot sale. I'd hardly call that spoiled.
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As Kori said its much easier. I prefer SHINOBI and KUNOICHI because they at least tried to do something different to the games that were out there at he time. And its a good throwback to old solid gameplay.
Once you master the games"tagging" attack system it soon becomes a blast especially once you unlock the secret characters. My advice is master KUNOICHI first and then go for SHINOBI.
Not as difficult as Shinobi until a certain point but I found Hibina's movements a lot easier than Hotsuma's.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll look into it then! :)
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No problem, glad to be of some help.
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Never said there was an arcade sequel.
This is what gets to me about you , the way you try and twist your self out of things . You said it was a port, when it wasn't .
Monkey Ball 2 wasn't a port not that really makes any difference .
It was actually a port with added material. Keep it up, me laddio.
Anyone with KNOWLEDGE of arcade games
Would know that Super Monkey Ball 2 wasn't a port and wasn't an Arcade game. Then would know that Super Money Ball was a port of the Arcade game with added bits however.
Even SHINOBI had some poor entries in the series with only the console made REVENGE OF SHINOBI and SHINOBI 3 being the highlights and exception to the rule.
Shinobi games were pretty good when handled In-House most of the time
The shareholders are privy to the actual sales and breakdowns
Not just them Thanks to SEGA Sammy PDF we learn things like how well Bayonttea sold and so on .
So does TW sell a million in the UK alone
Not 2 million (per game)
And yet Sega has posted the profits and Capcom isn't
Capcom hasn't posted a loss this generation and yet SEGA posted a few losses .
The arcade side was not enough to get Sega back in the black in the early noughties.
It was , Thanks to the VF 4 SEGA were able to post its 1st profit in 2002 - The trouble was SEGA had a massive historical debt thanks the consumer side .
It made a loss in 2005 it made a loss in 2010 and it made a loss in 2013
Nope it was 2004 and Capcom never made a loss in 2010 at all.
That made more money than Resident Evil did. Its sad you can't accept that fact.
The game didn't meat SEGA own sales targets and RE 5 sold better .
The megadrive GA games as well as the GG spin offs were terrible.
The Mega Drive versions were decent games - Handhelds well I doubt they were ever made In-House .
Yep you did. and no KUNOICHI isn't crap
Nope Its a adverage game , but yes I call Nighsade crap - to me it is .
Much less compared to Resident Evil has had in the same time frame.
RE is a 1996 PS game . Yakuza came nearly a decade latter and yet we're already on Part 5 .
Sega has games coming for the system as well for the current generation.
Well please tell what In-House games SEGA got coming for the XBox 1 and PS4 .
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This is what gets to me about you , the way you try and twist your self out of things . You said it was a port, when it wasn't .
No TA the only one who does that is you. There's countless demonstrations of you doing that in this topic alone.You have that reputation not me.
Would know that Super Monkey Ball 2 wasn't a port and wasn't an Arcade game. Then would know that Super Money Ball was a port of the Arcade game with added bits however.
SUPER MONKEY BALL 2 was a port of the first game with added bits on. Sega has been guilty of doing things like that before but of course if you were part of the sega fanbase you'd know what and which games i'm referring to....
Shinobi games were pretty good when handled In-House most of the time
Exception to the rule,most likely because it was part of the same team.
Not just them Thanks to SEGA Sammy PDF we learn things like how well Bayonttea sold and so on . Not 2 million (per game)
Never said it sold 2 million. You see twisting again. Someone else said it was 2 million and now you are trying to make out i said it.
Capcom hasn't posted a loss this generation and yet SEGA posted a few losses .
Capcom posted losses this generation EVERYONE knows it the CEO has stated it. Your zealousy over capcom is embarrassing.
It was , Thanks to the VF 4 SEGA were able to post its 1st profit in 2002 - The trouble was SEGA had a massive historical debt thanks the consumer side .
Not enough to save Sega as a whole. Bottom line end of. Do you understand the concept of end of an argument that you already LOST?
Nope it was 2004 and Capcom never made a loss in 2010 at all.
Yes they did.
The game didn't meat SEGA own sales targets and RE 5 sold better .
It over exceeded their targets. But keep spinning in order to make Capcom look good.
The Mega Drive versions were decent games - Handhelds well I doubt they were ever made In-House .
No they weren't they were totally slagged off at the time. With a game the caliber of GA the games had to be better than that.
Nope Its a adverage game , but yes I call Nighsade crap - to me it is .
Not to anyone else. And that's what matters not your personal opinion.
RE is a 1996 PS game . Yakuza came nearly a decade latter and yet we're already on Part 5 .
RE has had numourous spin offs compared to YAKUZA. Capcom milks a franchise by giving you spin offs before they make another sequel they're famous for it. Do you think no one here plays games or something by giving us that misleading fact? You are trying to convince people a fact they already know that Capcom has milked RE to death yet you are trying to make out Sega is the worse ones doing it. You are a joke.
Well please tell what In-House games SEGA got coming for the XBox 1 and PS4 .
You should know mr insider. If you actually READ any of the reports and actually REALLY know what's going on in Sega then you wouldn't need to ask that question.
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Monkeyball was a port, Monkeyball was a sequel developed only for the home systems they is a different really. Monster Hunter will soon sell 2 million that is a little better than what each Total War game sells I think and Sonic & Mario London Olypics did miss its sale target mate but it sold millions of copies so its not like it was lose maker.
Golden Axe 2 review pretty well and ok Golden Axe 3 got a slaming in MEGA but then it other mags it did get the odd good review It wasn't that bad of a game. The Shinobi games on the Mega Drive and Master System were really good , that started to go to pot with the outsourced Saturn Shinobi and while Shinobi on the PS2 was nice enough it was outclassed by many actions games on the PS2 and was totally outclassed by Ninja Gaiden in every dept , that was just a bit of a letdown for me. Yes sure Capcom have milked RE but that's a IP that came out on the PS in 1996 , Yakuza came almost a decade latter and I don't mind SEGA milking it as long as the Tech is good and SEGA also make new and fresh IP too.
And just do finish other than Yakuza for the PS4 I've seen nothing else from SEGA on the that's coming to the PS4 or XBox 1 other than rumors
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Nagoshi said once that he barely knows people that played the Monkey Ball Arcade machine. Me neither.
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Monkeyball was a port, Monkeyball was a sequel developed only for the home systems they is a different really.
Not to me it isn't and you can play SUPER MONKEY BALL 2 SAKURA EDITION to even see that fact alone.Next thing you'll be telling me SUPER MONKEY BALL ADVENTURES was an original game when it clearly isn't just a port modified as a platformer.
Monster Hunter will soon sell 2 million that is a little better than what each Total War game sells I think and Sonic & Mario London Olypics did miss its sale target mate but it sold millions of copies so its not like it was lose maker.
12million isn't a sales target miss. And believe you me TOTAL WAR has sold over a million with each entry with a few exceptions since Sega took over. The problem with some of you lot is that you take the public reports as bilbe when the public reports only gives you an initial impression. The actual shareholders reports gives you the breakdowns and final sales but you have to be a shareholder and a specific one to get those proper reports.
Golden Axe 2 review pretty well and ok Golden Axe 3 got a slaming in MEGA but then it other mags it
GA2 was slammed by Mean Machines and many of the others at the time. GA3 didn't fair that well either in certain american mags i switched to when i was fed up of the UK mag scene.
The Shinobi games on the Mega Drive and Master System were really good , that started to go to pot with the outsourced Saturn Shinobi and while Shinobi on the PS2 was nice enough it was outclassed by many actions games on the PS2 and was totally outclassed by Ninja Gaiden in every dept , that was just a bit of a letdown for me.
Wasn't for me. SHINOBI and KUNOICHI wasn't trying to mimic Ninja Gaiden, if anything they were trying to mimic a Devil May Cry style at least in presentation. But the game was a well made indepth game with a nod to real style of game playing. As for the SHINOBI series? Are you kidding? Good on the MS and Saturn? A saturn game which i loved but was well off base and should have been better,CYBER SHINOBI was rubbish,the GBA game well lets not mention that and SHINOBI 3DS was good but a retread of the MD games. Ninja Gaiden was an excellent game just like ROS was an excellent game during its era. These things as i said come in cycles. Fainal Fight was a great game so was Double Dragon. But SOR superseeced both of them and now we know that series was prehaps the last of the great scrolling beat em ups because no one can do that type of game justice in the 3D era. SPIKEOUT was good but not even close. Its your opinion that SHINOBI was a let down because it wasn't like NG but it isn't a fact. SHINOBI PS2 was different and it wasn't even trying to be like NG. Who knows if KUNOICHI didn't flop we'd have gotten another SHINOBI game by now by Sega. Sadly that series is dead without the original creator involved.
Yes sure Capcom have milked RE but that's a IP that came out on the PS in 1996 ,
Milked by several spin offs. Thats what Capcom does. You can keep harping on about RE has only reached a particular number in the main series but thats down to the stupid and inane spin offs Capcom released inbetween. Capcom did exactly the same with Streetfighter 2 with its spin off games. So no YAKUZA is hardly in the same league as cashing on a franchise and milking it to death.
Yakuza came almost a decade latter and I don't mind SEGA milking it as long as the Tech is good and SEGA also make new and fresh IP too.
Much like EA does with FIFA and countles other games that has built an expensive game engine and then needing to make good on their investment by making enough games on it to sell big.
And just do finish other than Yakuza for the PS4 I've seen nothing else from SEGA on the that's coming to the PS4 or XBox 1 other than rumors
Dude you didn't even seem to know that YAKUZA for PS4 was going to be a spin off wehich i told you ages ago its wasn't going to be a proper YAKUZA. game. I'd perfer to wait and se what Sega has in store instead of being like everyone else and annonce games in a crowd where everyone is annoncing it at the same time. Have some faith for gods sake.
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Nagoshi said once that he barely knows people that played the Monkey Ball Arcade machine. Me neither.
I've played it. But that's the thing i've seen many things written by americans stating certain games were never released outside of japan by Sega or at all when i know for a fact that isn't true. LOONEY TUNES RACE or whatever was called i played when i was in my late teens at the london trocedero. And that place was a mecca for Sega games during the mid nineties and along with Hamley's who manage to get location test arcade games directly from Japan, a lot of us also enjoyed VF2 before it was properly released as well as seeing games that wasn't meant to be released in rthe west like that excellent DRAGONBALL arcade game Sega made. Those were good times.
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What are the best games from Sega this year for you George? Personally I've only bought CoH2 and that's something Sega just picked up at a car boot sale. I'd hardly call that spoiled.
I think he means that this isn't such a bad year, just SEGA has done so well its easy to be disappointed. I'm in the same boat. In 2012 I got to play Binary Domain, Yakuza 5 and Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown which were all high quality titles, coming off of 2012 its a tough act to follow.
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I think he means that this isn't such a bad year, just SEGA has done so well its easy to be disappointed. I'm in the same boat. In 2012 I got to play Binary Domain, Yakuza 5 and Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown which were all high quality titles, coming off of 2012 its a tough act to follow.
It would have been made better if Sega didn't mess up and the fiasco over ALIENS COLONIAL MARINES didn't happen. Also the lack of Sega DNA titles is really obvious this year compared to last year as you said with titles like BINARY DOMAIN, VF5 S and YAKUZA 5. In terms of Sega or SOJ related titles coming for the west its a terrible year. In terms of buisness like Relic and Atlus getting nabbed by Sega. Excellent. In terms of second party/published Sega games. A mixed bag really from bad like TW ROME 2 to average.
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and you can play SUPER MONKEY BALL 2 SAKURA EDITION
I have no idea why you keep on bringing this up. Super Monkeyball 2 never came out for the Arcades at all .
12million isn't a sales target miss
LOL. The game didn't even sell 10 million . Where do you get these wild sales figs from I don't know . Not even Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games sold 12 million copies .
And believe you me TOTAL WAR has sold over a million with each entry with a few exceptions since Sega took over
No doubt , but it's not close to the sales each Montser Hunter games sells in Japan on the Handhelds these days .
GA2 was slammed by Mean Machines and many of the others at the time
No its scored 69% . Not a slamming at all , just not as good as the 1st game .
GA3 didn't fair that well either in certain american mags
Sure it got a very good reveiw in Gamefan . The game wasn't that bad just really average
Wasn't for me. SHINOBI and KUNOICHI wasn't trying to mimic Ninja Gaiden, if anything they were trying to mimic a Devil May Cry style at least in presentation
That old chestnut ::). Sonic wasn't made to mimic Mario but they'll always be compared to each other . Simple fact is not matter which way you cut it , DMC, Ninja Gaiden looked better, played better and were better productions really .
As for the SHINOBI series? Are you kidding? Good on the MS and Saturn? A saturn game which i loved but was well off base and should have been better,CYBER SHINOBI was rubbish,the GBA game well lets not mention that and SHINOBI 3DS was good but a retread of the MD games.
Shinobi was ace on the Master System, CyberShinobi was ok and Shinobi II on the GameGear utterly brilliant and all the Shinobi games onthe MD the best you could get .
Its your opinion that SHINOBI was a let down because it wasn't like NG but it isn't a fact.
Tomonobu Itagak once said in an interview that the reason he chose the Mega Drive over the Super Famicom and the reason he wanted to develop games was because of Revenge Of Shinobi (which he could never source) and Shadown Dancer , he held SEGA Ninja series in such high regard . So to have Itagak-san and Temco came along and with Ninja Gaiden totally destroy Shinobi on the PS2 in every dept was a bit of a shock and a comedown , it would be like Temco making a better Fighter than AM#2 or a better 3D shooter than Team Andromeda/Smilebit , it really should have happened.
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I have no idea why you keep on bringing this up. Super Monkeyball 2 never came out for the Arcades at all .
I never said it did. Again you obviously cant read. SUPER MONKEY BALL 2 SAKURA EDITION was a port of the first game with the added material locked in. a combination of MB and SMB2 which itself was built from the port.SMB was just a port of MB with better music extra levels and whatnot. Just like what SUPER WONDERBOY was to WONDERBOY. The exact same thing. You keep going on being an experienced player yet failed to even realise that.
LOL. The game didn't even sell 10 million . Where do you get these wild sales figs from I don't know . Not even Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games sold 12 million copies .
It did actually. The jokes on you since it was widely reported it reached ten million.
No doubt , but it's not close to the sales each Montser Hunter games sells in Japan on the Handhelds these days .
Nor is MH anywhere near the figures FOOTBALL and TOTAL WAR sell in the west.
No its scored 69% . Not a slamming at all , just not as good as the 1st game .
That is a bad score.
Sure it got a very good reveiw in Gamefan . The game wasn't that bad just really average
Compared to the original and the arcade exclusive sequel it is bad.
That old chestnut ::). Sonic wasn't made to mimic Mario but they'll always be compared to each other . Simple fact is not matter which way you cut it , DMC, Ninja Gaiden looked better, played better and were better productions really .
Yawn,NG and SHINOBI PS2 are two diferent games in the same ninja genre. SHINOBI goes for style while NG doesn't. NG was on a more powerful machine while SHINOBI wasn't. That's doesn't mean one is better than the other.
Shinobi was ace on the Master System, CyberShinobi was ok and Shinobi II on the GameGear utterly brilliant and all the Shinobi games onthe MD the best you could get .
CYBER SHINOBI was universally panned. For god sake.
Tomonobu Itagak once said in an interview that the reason he chose the Mega Drive over the Super Famicom and the reason he wanted to develop games was because of Revenge Of Shinobi (which he could never source) and Shadown Dancer , he held SEGA Ninja series in such high regard . So to have Itagak-san and Temco came along and with Ninja Gaiden totally destroy Shinobi on the PS2 in every dept was a bit of a shock and a comedown , it would be like Temco making a better Fighter than AM#2 or a better 3D shooter than Team Andromeda/Smilebit , it really should have happened.
No that's your opinion that its a poor game. I t wasn't. And dont bring me Tommo's dreams of Sega, he keeps going on about Sega yet never made a game for them. Figures. As for the fighter well that happened already. Namco produced a better fighter than the VF game at the time with the first Soul Caliber which of course was a re dub of Soul Edge.
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SUPER MONKEY BALL 2 SAKURA EDITION was a port of the first game with the added material locked in. a combination of MB and SMB2
And it never came to the Arcades.
It did actually
It never and Mario and Sonic and the London Olympics games never came close to 12 million sales . So I would stop the jokes .
MH anywhere near the figures FOOTBALL and TOTAL WAR sell in the west
I doubt worldwide sales of each Total War games will ever come close to what Monster Hunter 4 has sold in Japan already same is true of Football manager .
That is a bad score.
No its not, anything below 50% would be a bad score .
Compared to the original and the arcade exclusive sequel it is bad
Sometimes sequels score less that doesn't make them bad games . Golden Axe 3 wasn't bad really .
CYBER SHINOBI was universally panned
It wasn't great , but it did have its moments . Most of the Shinobi games were great until the 32 Bit days when it started to go to really wrong .
SHINOBI goes for style while NG doesn't. NG was on a more powerful machine while SHINOBI wasn't.
So what happend to these SEGA wizards then... How come DMC, Bujingai: The Forsaken City looked so much better on the PS2 than Shinobi .
And dont bring me Tommo's dreams of Sega, he keeps going on about Sega yet never made a game for them. Figures.
You can like and admire a corps games and not work for them.
Namco produced a better fighter than the VF game at the time with the first Soul Caliber which of course was a re dub of Soul Edge.
So we can't compare Shinobi to Ninja Gaiden , but can compare VF to Soul Caliber ? (A Vs Fighter against a Weapon Fighter) . None of the Tekken games or the DOA games have ever come close to SEGA VF series