SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: ROJM on September 20, 2013, 11:33:04 am
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Isn't it about time they spent some money on finishing SHENMUE?
I don't usually go for this bring back SHENMUE campaigns and usually don't get much involved in we want another SHENMUE style topics. But one has to think that since Sega has spent their money on Relic and Atlus this year, which combined would cost more than SHENMUE ever did, you have to wonder isn't it time to at least look at the option of reviving the series?
Back then many assumed and were probably corect that Sega simply didn't have the money to continue development on SHENMUE. But now that excuse is clearly gone since Sega has been pretty healthly money wise and obviously healthly enough to part their cash on a couple of gaming companies as well as other transactions.
Also the excuse of the game failing can't also be used anymore. Because the game has never really been brought back in the market where it was the most sucessful that being the USA.
Also strange circumstances has hindered its sucess outside of a Sega console.
SHENMUE 2 sales was impacted for Xbox because Sega Europe had already released it for Dreamcast in Europe. Meaning many fans of the series brought the game or imported it if they were living in the states. As far as Sega xbox sales go it was pretty sucesful as it was one of the few titles outside of Sonic that averaged over 100 000k, ORTA was to my knowledge the biggest Xbox seller for Sega outside of Sonic. And that was good for a system that most Sega games didn't do well on.
The attempts at spin offs or side games in an unproven market can also not be hold against it. SHENMUE ONLINE was never released due to internal problems between Sega and the chinese/Korean developer and distrubutor. And SHENMUE CITY never enjoyed the big push from Sega as they didn't release it but a smaller company called Sunsoft released the game for mobile networks, so it was never fully available for everyone especially since Sega has one of the bigger mobile game networks in Japan.
But the market it was more sucessful in has never had a chance to prove whether this franchise is really dead or not. I think the DLC content featuring SHENMUE character Ryo in SASASR and the fact he topped the poll to be included in the game indicates there is still intrest in this series.
Of course that doesn't mean it will be succesful either. But neither does buying a company with the ammount of money that Sega did for a handful IP that never sells anything beyond 200K.
The fact Sega is willing to do that means that they are finanacially secure enough to do so and are also after the smaller end of sales in the games market (With the niche games Atlus usually makes and sells) as well as the bigger end of the market with games like SONIC. Since that's the case maybe its time to finish what was started by Yu Suzuki on the Saturn/DC and finish what still remains one of the finest examples of Sega game development and gaming that was ever created.
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But isn't buying companies different than pouring a ton of cash into a single game?
When SEGA buys something like Relic or Atlus, it's a long term investment based on a proven track record, IPs owned by the studio, other assets owned by the company.
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And how much have they made on the many rereleases of old Genesis to DC games that they keep putting out. Those investments have more or less made back their investment tenfold over the last decade. Really lots of games are seen as investments because the potential to keep making money of them is bigger now than it was before.
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But isn't buying companies different than pouring a ton of cash into a single game?
Yes it is. Shenmue lost SEGA money and its sequel sold poor (A killer for any game) . Making a Shenmue 3 would take millions and a huge team and be a massive risk and I really don't think Sammy are up for any of that and rather take the safe route of milking Yakuza sadly . I'm not sure a Shenmue 3 would even finished the game since there's 10 odd chapters left to be told .
It would be nice to see SEGA make a sequel though, but one can understand why SEGA doesn't want to go near the IP .
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Yes it is. Shenmue lost SEGA money and its sequel sold poor (A killer for any game) . Making a Shenmue 3 would take millions and a huge team and be a massive risk and I really don't think Sammy are up for any of that and rather take the safe route of milking Yakuza sadly . I'm not sure a Shenmue 3 would even finished the game since there's 10 odd chapters left to be told .
It would be nice to see SEGA make a sequel though, but one can understand why SEGA doesn't want to go near the IP .
Sammy spent over 25 million on SHENMUE ONLINE before the game was scrapped. Again for the reasons listed above, the title hasn't been given a real chance. And the sequel didn't exactly flop either. But yes true to their word they said they wouldn't keep bankrolling games for the sake of it which of course was the difference between CSK Sega and Segasammy the third party. You have stability but you have less original creative games being put out. But i'm sure that will be an obstacle that some within Sega will change since it was something that was happening between 2002-2003 before Sammy came into the picture.
As for investments, most games are seen as investments all the time. Either creating a game engine so they can make multiple successful titles to recoup the money put into it or rereleasing old games on a periodical basis making a decent amount of cash in a yearly period. So its not that different actually. Which is why when Sega brought the creative assembly they quickly rereleased the older TW games in a box set and budget release they re couping their investment they made on that company which they will probably do the same with Atlus under Sega Europe.
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And the sequel didn't exactly flop either
C'Mon it sold real poor and didn't sell great on the XBox either.
But yes true to their word they said they wouldn't keep bankrolling games for the sake of it which of course was the difference between CSK Sega and Segasammy the third party.
The other difference is games like Shenmue weren't just made to make profits they were made to make you want to buy a SEGA system all that's gone now . The only hope is if SEGA tests the water by making a Shenmue HD remake for the current or next gen systems.
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C'Mon it sold real poor and didn't sell great on the XBox either.
Like i said it was the second highest non sonic sega seller after PDO. And the DC did ok. It didn't flop, i'd say moderate.
The other difference is games like Shenmue weren't just made to make profits they were made to make you want to buy a SEGA system all that's gone now . The only hope is if SEGA tests the water by making a Shenmue HD remake for the current or next gen systems.
yes i'd agree with you on that, but really i could say the same with YAKUZA 3 which was obviously used by Sony in Japan to sell the system which of course it did help PS3 units when it was released. And of course the fact that Sega did try to tout SHENMUE as an exclusive game to the big guns but they wouldn't bite.
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Like i said it was the second highest non sonic sega seller after PDO. And the DC did ok. It didn't flop, i'd say moderate.
I'm sure than House of the Dead 3 sold copies on the XBox and Shenmue 2 didn't sell great on the DC, it sold some 120,000 copies in Japan and never made in the top 40 UK charts ; I know people talk the game up and it being one of the most imported game for the USA ever, but given USA gamers hardly import anything it wasn't saying much at all.
yes i'd agree with you on that, but really i could say the same with YAKUZA 3
With Yakauza it's sequel sold way better than the 1st game and that always helps and each game in the series just about sells well enough to pay back the costs and make some money. Sadly you can list all the good reasons why Shenmue 3 should be made, but the money men at SEGA will just look at the dismal sales of Shenmue 2 and what it took and cost to make and then look at sales at Yakuza and say Shenmue had it day and chance.
All we can hope for is for SEGA to remake Shenmue 1 and II in High Def and bring them to PSN and XBox Live and if they sell in huge numbers SEGA will then start to think about making sequel to part 3. But then is SEGA up to making Shenmue 3 - I'm not sure AM#2 had the staffing levels or console piple lines to make such a game and would the yakuza be happy to make Shenmue 3 instead of Yakuza ? . Plus for many unless Yu Suzuki is involved people won't want to go near it , and after the way SEGA treated Yu, would he want to go back and would SEGA be happy to work with Yu ?
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I'm sure than House of the Dead 3 sold copies on the XBox and Shenmue 2 didn't sell great on the DC, it sold some 120,000 copies in Japan and never made in the top 40 UK charts ; I know people talk the game up and it being one of the most imported game for the USA ever, but given USA gamers hardly import anything it wasn't saying much at all.
With Yakauza it's sequel sold way better than the 1st game and that always helps and each game in the series just about sells well enough to pay back the costs and make some money. Sadly you can list all the good reasons why Shenmue 3 should be made, but the money men at SEGA will just look at the dismal sales of Shenmue 2 and what it took and cost to make and then look at sales at Yakuza and say Shenmue had it day and chance.
All we can hope for is for SEGA to remake Shenmue 1 and II in High Def and bring them to PSN and XBox Live and if they sell in huge numbers SEGA will then start to think about making sequel to part 3. But then is SEGA up to making Shenmue 3 - I'm not sure AM#2 had the staffing levels or console piple lines to make such a game and would the yakuza be happy to make Shenmue 3 instead of Yakuza ? . Plus for many unless Yu Suzuki is involved people won't want to go near it , and after the way SEGA treated Yu, would he want to go back and would SEGA be happy to work with Yu ?
Why not? Sega lent him the rights for him to do SHENMUE CITY and that VIRTUA FIGHTER mobile card game. As for the sales, well if that was really the case then Sammy wouldn't have invested all that cash on SHENMUE ONLINE would they, in an unproven market none the less. So i doubt that money motivates them all the time in SHENMUE's case. All i know is Sega wanted to partner with anthoer company to do the SHENMUE series and that didn't happen. But the reason for them doing that being money is gone because of the many acquisitions the company keep making, many of them being long term investments that aren't going to make real money for them othr than the short ones like Atlus which would be more instant.
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Why not? Sega lent him the rights for him to do SHENMUE CITY and that VIRTUA FIGHTER mobile card game. As for the sales, well if that was really the case then Sammy wouldn't have invested all that cash on SHENMUE ONLINE would they, in an unproven market none the less
Letting ex staff work on your IP totally outside of your group, is just a bit different from Yu Suzuki working inside SEGA Japan again commanding an SEGA In-House Team. I don't read much at all into Shenmue OnLine - that project was started when Yu Suzuki new division was known has 'Cinematic Online' and sure Sammy kept funding the project , but I guess that was done party not to upset too many staff and because at the time MMO were starting to make some serious money.
Shenmue 3 and 4 would be a totally different ball game - In order to make a game that would live up to the games and the fans expectations it would take a massive team and massive budget , more so in the High Def world and the money men at SEGA would need some sort of safe guards of getting that investment back , other than fans or people on message boards saying they'll buy the game .
Also inside SEGA you'll have teams wanting their own game to be given the green light and they will point out that Shenmue had it chance and it failed and cost SEGA dear and go-on about how they new project should be given the green light and like I say do AM#2 have the staff and the console pipe lines to make a console project of that that magnitude and would the Yakuza Team be happy to work on a Shenmue 3/4 if AM#2 couldn't do it , they may want their own game series or have a new IP idea that they rather make ....
That's the trouble with Shenmue mate, there's so many if's and buts and too much politics associated with the project that it's hard to see it being given the green light
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Letting ex staff work on your IP totally outside of your group, is just a bit different from Yu Suzuki working inside SEGA Japan again commanding an SEGA In-House Team. I don't read much at all into Shenmue OnLine - that project was started when Yu Suzuki new division was known has 'Cinematic Online' and sure Sammy kept funding the project , but I guess that was done party not to upset too many staff and because at the time MMO were starting to make some serious money.
Not really because if any animosity existed then they wouldn't even let him have the ips in the first place.
Dream on, that project was started under Sammy's reign of Sega.
Shenmue 3 and 4 would be a totally different ball game - In order to make a game that would live up to the games and the fans expectations it would take a massive team and massive budget , more so in the High Def world and the money men at SEGA would need some sort of safe guards of getting that investment back , other than fans or people on message boards saying they'll buy the game .
And this is the point Sega has the money. You keep acting like they dont. And if any game was marketed correctly the game would be able to attract new members to the series and not just older fans.
Also inside SEGA you'll have teams wanting their own game to be given the green light and they will point out that Shenmue had it chance and it failed and cost SEGA dear and go-on about how they new project should be given the green light and like I say do AM#2 have the staff and the console pipe lines to make a console project of that that magnitude and would the Yakuza Team be happy to work on a Shenmue 3/4 if AM#2 couldn't do it , they may want their own game series or have a new IP idea that they rather make ....
Well i doubt that would even happen. As for company politics, its not the first time that's happened but AM2 is still the golden boy in Sega so they could easily get a project greenlighted compared to some of the other groups.
That's the trouble with Shenmue mate, there's so many if's and buts and too much politics associated with the project that it's hard to see it being given the green light
if that was the case then Sega wouldn't have bothered shopping the game around awhile back to attract investment. So obviously there is a desire to get the game made. All i'm saying is the main obstacle is non exisistant. Money.
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Development started on Shenmue Online in February of 2003, before Sammy acquired SEGA and before Shenmue II was released on the Xbox in the PAL region. It was announced on August 3rd, 2004, and was still being talked about way after JCE (the Korean development partner) pulled out of the project somewhere in 2005. There is a news story from July of 2007 where Suzuki says it is still in active development. So, Sammy was still fully behind the project. http://shenmuedojo.net/new/games/s0preview.html
Also, SEGA should look and see that Shenmue II's ill fate was obviously due to circumstance. The American discontinuation of the Dreamcast caused the many people that DID want the game to import it since SEGA took forever and a day to announce Shenmue IIx. Though even if they had immediately announced it, some fans wouldn't have wanted to wait or fork over more money for a brand new console for possibly only one game.
Here are some sales charts: http://web.archive.org/web/20040620010114/http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~hokora/english/dcchart.html
According to that data, Shenmue II had outsold Sonic Adventure 2 in Japan. And we know that the game was the most imported into the United States...if only we had American and European Xbox sales.
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Not really because if any animosity existed then they wouldn't even let him have the ips in the first place.
Dream on, that project was started under Sammy's reign of Sega.
Shenmue Online was started in '2003' before the Sammy take over and like I said having Yu work outside of SEGA on an old IP is very different from having Yu Suzuki back in SEGA HQ leading a team.
And this is the point Sega has the money. You keep acting like they dont. And if any game was marketed correctly the game would be able to attract new members to the series and not just older fans
SEGA always had enough cash to make Shenmue 3 , but its all about the pros and cons and 1 of the main reasons SEGA is making money is that is slashed its R&D and its SEGA own words it just focus on core IP. Shenmue 3 is a massive risk and you talk about marketing ? That is an area SEGA been dire at be that trying to sell new IP like Binary Domain or trying to push games like Yakuza in the west .
AM2 is still the golden boy in Sega so they could easily get a project greenlighted compared to some of the other groups.
No you're missing the point is AM#2 really set up to make a project of Shenmue 3 size , when was the last time it worked on a console exclusive game are its pipe lines up to that
if that was the case then Sega wouldn't have bothered shopping the game around awhile back to attract investment
That was ages back, when Yu Suzuki was at SEGA and looking for the likes of Microsoft to fund the sequel . The more years pass the less interest in Shenmue they will be and the less likely it be that we'll have a Shenmue 3 . I bet there's millions of 360 and PS3 owners that haven't played Shenmue 1, never mind the sequel
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Shenmue Online was started in '2003' before the Sammy take over and like I said having Yu work outside of SEGA on an old IP is very different from having Yu Suzuki back in SEGA HQ leading a team.
That's when Sammy began to take over and the deal finalised by the following year.The project really didn't get full ahead until 2004.
SEGA always had enough cash to make Shenmue 3 ,
And now they got even more money. That's why they should make it.
but its all about the pros and cons and 1 of the main reasons SEGA is making money is that is slashed its R&D and its SEGA own words it just focus on core IP. Shenmue 3 is a massive risk and you talk about marketing ? That is an area SEGA been dire at be that trying to sell new IP like Binary Domain or trying to push games like Yakuza in the west .
That's more to do with SOA inability to do anything right.
No you're missing the point is AM#2 really set up to make a project of Shenmue 3 size , when was the last time it worked on a console exclusive game are its pipe lines up to that
Im not missing the point. AM2 wouldn't necessarly have to do it anyway since the group split from Suzuki to concentrate on arcades while Suzuki had his own team to do future SHENMUE games and that team wasn't as big as AM2.
That was ages back, when Yu Suzuki was at SEGA and looking for the likes of Microsoft to fund the sequel . The more years pass the less interest in Shenmue they will be and the less likely it be that we'll have a Shenmue 3 . I bet there's millions of 360 and PS3 owners that haven't played Shenmue 1, never mind the sequel
No i'm talking about this generation when that happened. For gods sake keep up.
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That's when Sammy began to take over and the deal finalised by the following year
Well Sammy didn't get any sort of control of SEGA until it bought CSK 22.4 stake in SEGA in December of 2003 . So Shenmue Online did have a number of months being worked on before Sammy came in, but the main work didn't really start until 2004 granted . And sometimes when you've just came in and bought out a group you try not to make many drastic changes early in , much like I doubt SEGA will change much at Atlus , but may in the future
And now they got even more money.
SEGA is 3rd party now and will only spend money, if it thinks it can make it back . Its not that SEGA can't afford to make a Shenmue 3 , it's more is it a worthwhile investment and will the project make a profit and that's a much harder question to answer because everything points to a big no (other than fan talk on the web)
That's more to do with SOA inability to do anything right
Well but this is all the more troubling when Shenmue best market was America in terms of sales. And lets be fair SEGA Japan has had the odd flop now again and didn't really do much with the Platnium games in Games or Binary Domain it's self
AM2 wouldn't necessarly have to do it anyway
That for many fans would start the alarm bells ringing for starters . You know what die hard fans are like they will want the old Team to make it, that made the original games. I mean for many until the day Camerlot make a Shining Force game they're not interested and shouldn't be classed a Shining Force game. Looking at SEGA Japan it seems only AM#2 or the Yakuza Teams would be able to make Shenmue 3 and where the fans would feel happy and safe if any of those Teams would make it
No i'm talking about this generation when that happened
Nobody would want to go near Shenmue this generation .SONY and MS just aren't not interested and even SEGA it's self has no interest in the IP and would much rather focus on Yakuza. Shenmue 3 is a hard sell
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I used to be positive about this, but I have to concede that Shenmue is probably dead now. Are we even ever going to see Shenners 1 and 2 re-released?
Our best bet would be for Yu Suzuki to get the rights back and chuck it on Kickstarter so all the bat-shit crazy fanboys (like me) would donate big bucks to make a sequel.
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They should pour money into their development teams.
Get a few college students in and give them the freedom to create something.
The long term goal would be to create a line up that spreads out the year nicely, instead of what we're getting now where the game releases are scattered and possibly delayed.
I think buying ATLUS is still a great idea, but they don't seem to pour the money into what they already own, and it's sort of disheartening.
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Well Sammy didn't get any sort of control of SEGA until it bought CSK 22.4 stake in SEGA in December of 2003 . So Shenmue Online did have a number of months being worked on before Sammy came in, but the main work didn't really start until 2004 granted . And sometimes when you've just came in and bought out a group you try not to make many drastic changes early in , much like I doubt SEGA will change much at Atlus , but may in the future
And you sure dont pour in 25 million extra into the project either so i much doubt that Sammy was trying to applease people. Especially after warning the rebels in sega that heads would roll if they complained or made a fuss. And guess what some heads did roll between 2004/05.
SEGA is 3rd party now and will only spend money, if it thinks it can make it back . Its not that SEGA can't afford to make a Shenmue 3 , it's more is it a worthwhile investment and will the project make a profit and that's a much harder question to answer because everything points to a big no (other than fan talk on the web)
Changed your tune eh? After the numerous complaints about why sega wont back this game and that game when i've been telling you for years that they're playing it safe because of that reason. Originality isn't your thing. But now they have enough money to back a SHENMUE game as well as more risque projects that they didn't want to back before. And why not?
Well but this is all the more troubling when Shenmue best market was America in terms of sales. And lets be fair SEGA Japan has had the odd flop now again and didn't really do much with the Platnium games in Games or Binary Domain it's self
That was due to a large cutback but they didn't help themselves either when it came to BD. I cant fault Sega Japan because they marketed that title but the market where it should have sold strongly was never marketed by the sega west teams.
That for many fans would start the alarm bells ringing for starters . You know what die hard fans are like they will want the old Team to make it, that made the original games. I mean for many until the day Camerlot make a Shining Force game they're not interested and shouldn't be classed a Shining Force game. Looking at SEGA Japan it seems only AM#2 or the Yakuza Teams would be able to make Shenmue 3 and where the fans would feel happy and safe if any of those Teams would make it
Because SHINING FORCE doesn't follow the same type of genre the original games did. SHENMUE isn't going to change from a RPG into a bloody platform game now is it. So its hardly the same thing. SHENMUE fans wont care as long as Sega is making a new chapter.
Nobody would want to go near Shenmue this generation .SONY and MS just aren't not interested and even SEGA it's self has no interest in the IP and would much rather focus on Yakuza. Shenmue 3 is a hard sell
Sega has shown intrest in the ip or we wouldn't have seen it pop up in various forms. And Sega doesn't need to shop around as they can do the game themselves and that's what im advocating.
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And you sure dont pour in 25 million extra into the project either so i much doubt that Sammy was trying to applease people
That depends and no doubt with the growth of MMO in Asia it seemed like a good invesment
After the numerous complaints about why sega wont back this game and that game when
No . I never really asked or expected SEGA to make Shenmue 3. I've been totally constant on that issue in terms of costs, man power, fanbase and how so little of Shenmue 3 was actually done
Because SHINING FORCE doesn't follow the same type of genre the original games did
C'Mon until Camerlot make a Shining game fans won't be happy and you know it .
SHENMUE fans wont care as long as Sega is making a new chapter
They will care and they will want AM#2 and Yu Suzuki to make it and they will want it done to the standards of Shenmue (in other words piehot). Otherwise it be another NiGHTS 2 type letdown and the fans will hate SEGA for it .
Sega has shown intrest in the ip or we wouldn't have seen it pop up in various forms
Where ? Other than in Sonic racing I can't recall SEGA using Shenmue IP in any meaningful way
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I do agree that the only viable option to make a Shenmue III will come from a rerelease of some sort of the first two games.
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That depends and no doubt with the growth of MMO in Asia it seemed like a good invesment
MMO was in its infancy back then. Sammy was more intrested in getting the groundwork done for the arcades in China. But they still grenlit a lot of projects or should i say had the final write off to secure the funding.
No . I never really asked or expected SEGA to make Shenmue 3. I've been totally constant on that issue in terms of costs, man power, fanbase and how so little of Shenmue 3 was actually done
Never said you did. But you aren't up to scratch when it comes to SHENMUE development either
C'Mon until Camerlot make a Shining game fans won't be happy and you know it .
Wrong because the people buying the SHINING force games now aren't the same audience that was into it when Camelot was making it. The series has now spread to arcades, digital/mobile as well as consoles. The people playing them are a completly different crowd to the ones that liked the original series. So don't act like the whole SHINING community wants Camelot back because the sad truth is that Sega ignored them and managed to get a new crowd in who doesn't even know about camelot history with the series or even cares.
They will care and they will want AM#2 and Yu Suzuki to make it and they will want it done to the standards of Shenmue (in other words piehot). Otherwise it be another NiGHTS 2 type letdown and the fans will hate SEGA for it .
They won't care. AM2 was going to do it without Suzuki when SHENMUE 3 was going to happen since he had his other studio to contend with. That rumour about Cerny being involved with Suzuki for something which many people jumped to the conclusion that it was SHENMUE didn't care who puts it out as long as it gets made.
Where ? Other than in Sonic racing I can't recall SEGA using Shenmue IP in any meaningful way
I mentioned Sega's several attempts at least reviving the franchise either be it online or mobile and just licensing it out. That is still intrest from the company regardless on what you say.
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I think there will be a healthy amount on both sides regarding whether the fans will buy Shenmue III if Yu is involved or not. Though even if every single Shenmue fan jumped on board and bought it, I don't think those sales would justify them making another if III didn't finish the job. They'd have to do something with the first two in order to get the third made, at this point.
Regarding interest in the IP, it is my opinion that the company has every intent to make the game, but don't want to take the possible risk and absorb what might turn out to be a colossal failure. Shenmue is huge, and on the off chance that sales are absolutely dismal, the series will never see the light of day ever again. However, if they could license out the IP and just take a check of the some of the profits without having to fork over much money, I believe they'd be very interested. What company wouldn't? If YS Net had the capabilities (some day) to make it themselves or team up with another development team, then I don't think SEGA would stop them. That being said, I don't think they want to contribute much, be it manpower or financial support, to a game that is considered to be so risky. Now with THAT said, I also think SEGA should realize that Shenmue's circumstances were very odd and unfair to the game and the team itself...the shelved Saturn version, then the US cancellation of the Dreamcast, development issues with Shenmue Online...really the only solid data we have to go on is the success that was Shenmue I, and the failure that was Shenmue Gai. Shenmue II and Shenmue Online are both multifaceted, complex, issues.
Just my two cents.
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They should get M2 on board to port 1 and 2 on the PSN/XBLA services, save that profit up (if they do make money on it), and use it to fund Shenmue 3.
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SEGA probably could do a "Shenmue 1 and 2" for the sequel campaign or something XD. That's what Square is doing with Bravely Default. Issue with that is that if it isn't successful, people will be PISSSSED.
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MMO was in its infancy back then
On the PC and corps like NCsoft we seeing huge growth and sales in Asia.
But you aren't up to scratch when it comes to SHENMUE development eithe
Very little of Shenmue 3 was actually developed (game wise)
AM2 was going to do it without Suzuki when SHENMUE 3 was going to happen since he had his other studio to contend with
Yu Suzuki was still going to be the producer of the game, but stepped down as director . These changes were confirmed when key Shenmue staff left AM#2 (staff like Keiji Okayasu) . The simple fact is unless Yu and AM#2 are making the title, many people will worry about the quality of the game and fear another NiGHTS type sequel
Sega's several attempts at least reviving the franchise either be it online or mobile and just licensing it out
That really don't count at all more so on a mobile or online (how many times have we seen the same with IP like Burning Rangers and what not) . What we really need to see is SEGA making an effort to re-release Shenmue or starting to talk up any prospect of a Sequel
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On the PC and corps like NCsoft we seeing huge growth and sales in Asia.
Yes later on but Sega was intrested in just localising Korean games to sell to the Chinese which didn't cost them hardly a cent. So again they wouldn't have poured as much money into it when there was no need to.
Very little of Shenmue 3 was actually developed (game wise)
Actually all the assets was in place. But then you said at one point it was never developed and didn't exist at all in anyform. How times have changed, eh?
Yu Suzuki was still going to be the producer of the game, but stepped down as director . These changes were confirmed when key Shenmue staff left AM#2 (staff like Keiji Okayasu) . The simple fact is unless Yu and AM#2 are making the title, many people will worry about the quality of the game and fear another NiGHTS type sequel
Yawn, Suzuki was going to do SHENMUE without AM2(twice) and more if you count the other spin offs) and AM2 was going to do SHENMUE without Yu with 3 as well. So stop spinning. Suzuki was involved with two different teams during Sega's run as a third party when SHENMUE was activly being pursued by Sega so he was never going to be involved heavily with any future installments.
That really don't count at all more so on a mobile or online (how many times have we seen the same with IP like Burning Rangers and what not) . What we really need to see is SEGA making an effort to re-release Shenmue or starting to talk up any prospect of a Sequel
It does when the original people or person is involved. It counts when an IP that Sega is supposedly wont touch seems to let the creator not only have that IP but another more valable one in the form of VF as well. Meaning SHENMUE is still of an interest to Sega and that there isn't much animosity betwen Sega and Yu for them to give him both IPs. BURNING RANGERS is a distraction because that IP was just a puzzle game where SHENMUE CITY was a complete game still using the basis of the original but in a different direction. In fact its probably close to what SHENMUE ONLINE was going to be and what YAKUZA GREE is. So yes it does count.
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Yes later on but
Even in 2003 one was seeing MMO really take off in Asia.
Actually all the assets was in place
Story, most of the planned locations and script Yes- but that was true when Shenmue was being made for the Saturn .
But then you said at one point it was never developed and didn't exist at all in anyform
The work done on Shenmue 3 was tiny, little of the game developed . Hardly any of the world, characters were moded in game form at all, unlike if we had listed to you . .
Suzuki was going to do SHENMUE without AM2(twice) and more if you count the other spin offs
Online game was being done with out AM#2, . Shenmue 3 was meant to have be done with AM#2 with Suzuki-san being in the producer role.
It counts when an IP that Sega is supposedly wont touch seems to let the creator not only have that IP but another more valable one in the form of VF as wel
So what next because SEGA allowed Q Entertainment to handle and make REZ HD that meant SEGA was looking to make REZ II ? and pigs fly . SEGA doesn't want to go near Shenmue 3 in terms of producing and funding the title, everyone can clearly see that; Meaningless mobile games (not even made by SEGA) or the odd bit part cameo means nothing.
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Even in 2003 one was seeing MMO really take off in Asia.
No not really the market exploded around 2005 onwards.
Story, most of the planned locations and script Yes- but that was true when Shenmue was being made for the Saturn .
Not the same, the whole engine was in place all they had to do was make the game out of it which they were starting to do.
The work done on Shenmue 3 was tiny, little of the game developed . Hardly any of the world, characters were moded in game form at all, unlike if we had listed to you . .
But according to you the game never existed. I'm saying the same thing as i saying now. So wrong again as usual. Just like ETERNAL ARCADIA 2 was never planned when there was evidence that it was being planned. You were wrong again on both counts. And as usual you then try to misquote people distract them and outright lie and drag the conversation over multiple pages thereby hoping people will believe your bull and F'ing up the original points of the topic in the first place.
Online game was being done with out AM#2, . Shenmue 3 was meant to have be done with AM#2 with Suzuki-san being in the producer role.
Correction, SHENMUE 3 was going to be done without Suzuki being really involved because Suzuki would have been doing another game with another team.
So what next because SEGA allowed Q Entertainment to handle and make REZ HD that meant SEGA was looking to make REZ II ? and pigs fly . SEGA doesn't want to go near Shenmue 3 in terms of producing and funding the title, everyone can clearly see that; Meaningless mobile games (not even made by SEGA) or the odd bit part cameo means nothing.
Dont be ridiculous. SHENMUE has had more opportunity's for a game that Sega has zero interest in. Your REZ point is another diversion because that was one title which did have a spiritual successor from its original creator. Keep dismissing the mobile part when a lot of people including the creator as well as the size of the game on a market that Sega practically focuses on means nothing.
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No not really the market exploded around 2005 onwards
Yes but in 2003 there were serious signs of growth . That is one of the reason why the Shenmue Online project was started in 2003 and no doubt why Sammy also put huge amounts of funding in.
the whole engine was in place all they had to do was make the game out of it
No it don't work like that . Shenmue game engine was complete and running way before Shenmue made it out , but you still have to model the world, rooms and characters , never mind come up with gameplay (which is much more than just having a script) that's why Shenmue 2 took so long its self to come out .
So wrong again as usual. Just like ETERNAL ARCADIA 2 was never planned when there was evidence
Please don't even go there . I told you that SOA II was never in production and wasn't being worked on, you made out otherwise even though the title never made it past the pre production stages . Listen to you Yu Suzuki wasn't in semi retirement but working on 4 games and we were going to get a new Hang-on and a new Shinobi game . When the reality was those ideas were dropped long before they ever made into full production
Suzuki would have been doing another game with another team.
Suzuki-san was working on Shenmue Online and setting up his own team and so said he wouldn't have time to direct Shenmue 3, but would produce it .
Your REZ point is another diversion because that was one title which did have a spiritual successor from its original creator.
Are you for real . Eden was Funded by Ubisoft and nothing at all to with SEGA at all, nothing . We're still waiting for SEGA to make REZ 2 and there's bob hope of it happening, even if it let Q? make REZ HD
SHENMUE has had more opportunity's for a game that Sega has zero interest in.
SEGA isn't interested in Shenmue, its an old IP than lost it money and cost it dear. There's far more IP that SEGA owns that's A) Sold better) and B) made SEGA money.
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Yes but in 2003 there were serious signs of growth . That is one of the reason why the Shenmue Online project was started in 2003 and no doubt why Sammy also put huge amounts of funding in.
Not that serious like i said it exploded in 2005.Sega was using cheap localisations from that point.
No it don't work like that . Shenmue game engine was complete and running way before Shenmue made it out , but you still have to model the world, rooms and characters , never mind come up with gameplay (which is much more than just having a script) that's why Shenmue 2 took so long its self to come out .
I said engine i never said game so don't put words in my mouth. All the asets were in place and we all know they were because Yu was using assets from the previous games as well as locations that was meant to appear in future installments.
Please don't even go there . I told you that SOA II was never in production and wasn't being worked on, you made out otherwise even though the title never made it past the pre production stages . Listen to you Yu Suzuki wasn't in semi retirement but working on 4 games and we were going to get a new Hang-on and a new Shinobi game . When the reality was those ideas were dropped long before they ever made into full production
No you said it didn't happen, while there were signs from everyone to one or to sega officials saying it was happening. Then you spun it as pre production nonsense when we both know that isn't how it would have worked. So dont bother with the spin mate. No one said the game was ever finished or even made but the game was in production.
Suzuki-san was working on Shenmue Online and setting up his own team and so said he wouldn't have time to direct Shenmue 3, but would produce it .
He had Cinematic Online way before SHENMUE ONLINE was going to happen and they were meant to do SHENMUE 3. Then they redid the teams again and it fell back to AM2's hands and they were going to do the title. The point is if the game had indeed happened it would have been either Yu or Am2 but sadly not both.
Are you for real . Eden was Funded by Ubisoft and nothing at all to with SEGA at all, nothing . We're still waiting for SEGA to make REZ 2 and there's bob hope of it happening, even if it let Q? make REZ HD
Again i never said it was anything to do with Sega. But the fact that Q licensed it from Sega and then made another game kinda shows the point i'm making. That rereleases or little updates is usually to keep the IP in the minds of the public and make a game out of it. Dont try to spin it that i said anything else.
SEGA isn't interested in Shenmue, its an old IP than lost it money and cost it dear. There's far more IP that SEGA owns that's A) Sold better) and B) made SEGA money.
No wrong again. Arent you tired of being wrong? Any way please dont respond. Fed up of seeing your typing skills and we all know your opinion. So there's really no need to keep posting anymoe now is there.
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I disagree that little of Shenmue III exists. You can see in the Saturn preview that Guilin was playable in the Saturn build, with Shenhua being introduced. I think that there was a considerable amount of work done past the story and script. Maybe not half of the next game or anything, but I'm confident there was stuff in the works. Not to mention the fact that Shenmue III was announced in late 2001 on SEGA Europe's site. Even if it was a mistake, I don't think someone would make that mistake based off of a game that didn't exist past the story.
Also, through hacking the game's files and what we see on the Shenmue Premiere video, there are unused characters, like the old guy in the Muecas screenshots, and parts of Niao Sun's model.
Regarding Am2/Yu Suzuki's involvement, don't forget that in 2004, Digitalrex was formed with Suzuki at the helm, and they had the trademark of Shenmue under their name. This was a quote from Suzuki at the time:
I wouldn't feel complete if Shenmue ended with the second game. The voices of our fans are constantly being sent to us, as well. I'm currently scheming to start up some kind of action with the series.
http://shenmuedojo.net/new/games/s3preview.html
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You get a kudos from me. Also i recall that Sega relased plenty of promo shots of characters that was meant to appear in SHENMUE 3 but dissapeared. As i said before Yu has mentioned att he time that SHENMUE ONLINE was using assets from SHENMUE 1 2 as well as elements from 3 that wasn't going to be used. All indicatatiions that 3 exists in some form or anthoer. The rendering of locales and character models as well as other things were effectivly done when the original development was made between the Saturn and the DC. All that Sega needed to do is create a game and rerender it for whatever latest graphics the game would end up using.
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I disagree that little of Shenmue III exists. You can see in the Saturn preview that Guilin was playable in the Saturn build, with Shenhua being introduced.
All that is was in Shenmue 2 and its just goes to show you what a huge task it was to take the Saturn game and get it up to where the Saturn production was for the DC version. 2 games and years in development - but that whats happens where you have re worked all the graphics and model it up to next gen standards (for the DC era )
All that Sega needed to do is create a game and rerender it for whatever latest graphics the game would end up using.
That took years . Dremcast Shenmue was put back all the time and despite most of the ground work done in the Saturn game . Shenmue didn't see the light of day until late in 1999 and the sequel which takes no further than the Saturn game took another 2 years to see the light of day.
All that Sega needed to do is create a game and rerender it for whatever latest graphics the game would end up using.
Its far more than that . All the models are made with what ever machine limits are at the time , to go in to another generation needs them to be totally redone or they'll look like crap and you'll be totally found out .
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I know it is all from Shenmue II, but what is the possibility that Am2 stopped developing the series right at the point where Shenmue II ends? Considering we saw the end of the game being played on the Saturn.
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but what is the possibility that Am2 stopped developing the series right at the point where Shenmue II ends? Considering we saw the end of the game being played on the Saturn.
More work would have been done , but SEGA posted a massive loss the game not really selling great would have all meant that work would have been put on the back burner until work on the XBox version was done and SEGA could see if there was really demand for a reworked XBox Shenmue 3 . The simple fact is long before Shenmue made it out , you so lots of pics showing what would go on to become Shenmue 2 , we saw little of what would you could say would go to be Shenmue 3 hardly anything at all
Worst now is the longer it goes on its the more work with have to be done . None of the DC assets would be any use on the XBox 1 or PS 4 they wouldn't be good for the 360 or PS3, almost everything would need to be re-done and re-modeled to bring it up to High Def and next gen standards that alone would be a lot of work given Shenmue epic scale
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I know it is all from Shenmue II, but what is the possibility that Am2 stopped developing the series right at the point where Shenmue II ends? Considering we saw the end of the game being played on the Saturn.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.playfrance.com%2Fnews-ps3-ps4-shenmue-3-le-teasing-au-bout-des-doigts.html&act=url
They didn't. The whole scenario was worked on. The storyline and characters design and direction were already worked on and complete. Creating the engine, Getting the location shots and rendering them would have been also done. All the needed to do is go back and create a game out of it. That's why when you see YAKUZA coming out with a annual release its because the engine being used has everything they need to build the game from. That's what was supposed to happen with SHENMUE. Any extra cost the game would have had is the title being made on a different platform. That's where the costs of the original SHENMUE went high when its development moved from Saturn to DC. The only costs the game would incur is obviously the platform it might use. But SHENMUE or at least 3 would have had development worked on as an actual game before it was finally canned.
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The storyline and characters design and direction were already worked on and complete
That is not a game . Most games will have characters and the storyline planned at the pre production stage more so for a RPG's
That's why when you see YAKUZA coming out with a annual release its because the engine being used has everything they need to build the game from.
Nope Its not the same at all. Yakuza can re use a lot of the assets because it just re-uses the same characters and most of the same locations all the same . Shenmue has you going from one country to the next where China is totally different from Japan for staters
That's where the costs of the original SHENMUE went high when its development moved from Saturn to DC.
The DC version alone cost $45 million to make , that's with out the sequel or Saturn costs which then bring the total cost up to $70 million. Shenmue costs were so high because the man power and the sheer scale of the game (very muck like GTA) . Shenmue game engine was up and running and very much complete before the Dreamcast came out in Japan , Shenmue engine is only part of the issue
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That is not a game . Most games will have characters and the storyline planned at the pre production stage more so for a RPG's
Never said it was a game TA. Read the post again.
Nope Its not the same at all. Yakuza can re use a lot of the assets because it just re-uses the same characters and most of the same locations all the same . Shenmue has you going from one country to the next where China is totally different from Japan for staters
And all the assets needed for that had been made. All they had to do was put it in place for the game. Again read the post AGAIN.
The DC version alone cost $45 million to make , that's with out the sequel or Saturn costs which then bring the total cost up to $70 million. Shenmue costs were so high because the man power and the sheer scale of the game (very muck like GTA) . Shenmue game engine was up and running and very much complete before the Dreamcast came out in Japan , Shenmue engine is only part of the issue
Actually it was more up to 20 million not 45 million. The point is the engine was complete, the games itself would have taken at least a year and a half to complete considering the skill of Sega's development teams. So any working game from the engine for 3 could have easily been done which it was since Sega only really announces anything when they've started work on making an actual game. Now if were going to add the cost of SHENMUE's development as a whole it would have gone up to nearly 100 million because of the added cost of SHENMUE ONLINE which of course became embroiled in its own troubles. Like someone said and what i first stated on my initial post SHENMUE isn't a flop as much as a game that's been thru unfortunate circumstances and never given the oppurtunity to really get to market itself. A game released on a failing systemSaturn and mainly DC. A game released on the wrong system(Xbox was a failure for all Sega games). internal politics and cultural clashes that hampered SHENMUE ONLINE. You take this things out of the way and do it properly then we can se whether this game is truly a failure or not.
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And all the assets needed for that had been made. All they had to do was put it in place for the game
I don't they were done for Shenmue 3 since we saw next to nothing of what would be Shenmue 3 (we saw plenty of Shenmue 2 even before Shenmue 1 made it out ) and even if they were done - They're DC assets and wouldn't be no use on the 360,PS3 never mind PS 4 or XBox One .
Look at car games even if they use the same cars and tracks from the XBox or PS2 , the assets need to be redone to bring them up to next gen levels on the 360 and PS4.
Actually it was more up to 20 million not 45 million.
Yu Suzuki-san corrected that in one of his interviews and said the actual cost of Shenmue 1 was $45 million
A game released on the wrong system(Xbox was a failure for all Sega games). internal politics and cultural clashes that hampered SHENMUE ONLINE.
XBox wasn't wrong for all SEGA games - the PS2 had its fair share of SEGA flops too you know its not like DC ports of F355, REZ sold great and the likes of Blood Will Tell, SEGA Rally 2006 and the like didn't sell great on the PS2 . Shenmue 2 sold poor on the XBox because of the delay and well it looked like a DC game running on the XBox and that for many wasn't good enough.
Shenmue 3 is just almost too much of a risk and you've got to ask yourself with total sales of say a million and half copies , would a sequel be worth making ? That's what the money men will look at really
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I don't they were done for Shenmue 3 since we saw next to nothing of what would be Shenmue 3 (we saw plenty of Shenmue 2 even before Shenmue 1 made it out ) and even if they were done - They're DC assets and wouldn't be no use on the 360,PS3 never mind PS 4 or XBox One .
Like the Saturn assets would have been any use for the DC? Don't be ridiculous. You can say the same thing with SHENMUE ONLINE for the PC which had upgraded in significant power at the time they were making it beyond the DC was in 1999. And SO was using all S2 assets. ::)
Look at car games even if they use the same cars and tracks from the XBox or PS2 , the assets need to be redone to bring them up to next gen levels on the 360 and PS4.
Yes its going to cost money but dont act that it couldn't be done.
Yu Suzuki-san corrected that in one of his interviews and said the actual cost of Shenmue 1 was $45 million
Yu san keeps changing his story, first its 70 then it was 20 now its 30 and 45... ::)
XBox wasn't wrong for all SEGA games - the PS2 had its fair share of SEGA flops too you know its not like DC ports of F355, REZ sold great and the likes of Blood Will Tell, SEGA Rally 2006 and the like didn't sell great on the PS2 . Shenmue 2 sold poor on the XBox because of the delay and well it looked like a DC game running on the XBox and that for many wasn't good enough.
Yes and so did the GC but they also had the most hits, Xbox didn't and you know it. DORORO sold over 200 000 in Japan but it wasn't a hit here. Point is that Sega's efforts on the PS2 and GC acumilated more profit and substantial profit than any of the xbox releases which were all flops.
Shenmue 3 is just almost too much of a risk and you've got to ask yourself with total sales of say a million and half copies , would a sequel be worth making ? That's what the money men will look at really
Tell that to Sega or they wouldn't have been shopping the IP around during this curent generation of game systems.
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Who knows how much it really costed? There was the $70,000,000 price tag given in the Project Berkely video, the $20,000,000 price tag in the Guiness World Records, and many others. Yu has also gone back and said the game doesn't have 16 chapters anymore, so a lot of it might just be communication issues.
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Like the Saturn assets would have been any use for the DC?
Yes that's why even with most of the ground work done on the Saturn the DC game still took years took make millions and millions and even then took untill 2001(for Shenmue 2) to ship what was already done on the Saturn in terms of content.
Yes its going to cost money but dont act that it couldn't be don
Not just money, but time . Now its car from a matter of weeks to model a car to a a matter of months to model a car- even if that car is the same one that was used in GT 3/4 or what ever . So its not just a case of re using DC assets .
Yu san keeps changing his story, first its 70 then it was 20 now its 30 and 45.
No $70 Million on the Shenmue project as a whole . $45 for the DC version of part 1
DORORO sold over 200 000 in Japan but it wasn't a hit here
And Orta sold more than 200,000 copies, so did HOTD 3 on the XBox. Like I said there were plenty of poor sellers on the PS2 as well from SEGA , but the likes of Lets make A, VF 4 and Yakuza sold great on the format.
Tell that to Sega or they wouldn't have been shopping the IP around during this curent generation of game systems
I think you making stuff there . SEGA hasn't beeing showing must interesting at all in making a Shenmue 3 now,
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Yes that's why even with most of the ground work done on the Saturn the DC game still took years took make millions and millions and even then took untill 2001(for Shenmue 2) to ship what was already done on the Saturn in terms of content.
Cant you be consistant? Your effectivly just said what i just said ten posts back, that it can be done. No one is saying it wont cost anything of course it does which is why Sega more than likely wants this as an exclusive rather then funding the game themselves.
Not just money, but time . Now its car from a matter of weeks to model a car to a a matter of months to model a car- even if that car is the same one that was used in GT 3/4 or what ever . So its not just a case of re using DC assets .
It is when you render them.
No $70 Million on the Shenmue project as a whole . $45 for the DC version of part 1
Actually its 100 million now thanks to SHENMUE ONLINE. 20 million for the first game and 25 for the second. Which is where the 45 million figure would have come from. This is probably what he meant.
And Orta sold more than 200,000 copies, so did HOTD 3 on the XBox. Like I said there were plenty of poor sellers on the PS2 as well from SEGA , but the likes of Lets make A, VF 4 and Yakuza sold great on the format.
ORTA did that worldwide not in the USA. Same with HOTD3. So lets stop pretending that Sega ignored the american fanbase, the american gamer ignored Sega and sega wasn't in any shape to keep whipping out titles for a system that basically had nothing but failed sales targets for them, they had to stick to what was succesful and that was PS2/GC ,SONIC and Japan.
I think you making stuff there . SEGA hasn't beeing showing must interesting at all in making a Shenmue 3 now,
No TA i'm not making stuff up, its a fact that Sega wanted to continue with SHENMUE but only as a partnership and an exclusive deal. They've been doing that with several titles now new or even estabilshed. They did it with Microsoft, didn't work shopped it around, made a deal with china failed shopped it around etc etc.Like i said they were doing that last and current gen.
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Who knows how much it really costed? There was the $70,000,000 price tag given in the Project Berkely video, the $20,000,000 price tag in the Guiness World Records, and many others. Yu has also gone back and said the game doesn't have 16 chapters anymore, so a lot of it might just be communication issues.
Your right a lot of it is communication issues. Yu did say the game doesn't need the whole 16 chapters to finish the story but he also said it wouldn't be proper if it hasn't got all the chapters. So go figure.
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Your effectivly just said what i just said ten posts back, that it can be done. No one is saying it wont cost anything of course it does which is why Sega more than likely wants this as an exclusive rather then funding the game themselves.
I am >:D. Every with the groundwork done it still too SEGA and AM#2 years to make the DC games and cost SEGA millions and that's just bringing the game up from Saturn in DC 3D . The Jump between the 360 and PS3 to that of the DC is massive , never mind the XBox 1 or PS4 .
So it would need everything to be totally redone and that would take massive amounts of manpower and money .
It is when you render them
So why does each GT game takes years to come out , why does the time to it takes to render each car and track go up with each instalment on each new machine, when it a lot of cases the cars and tracks are the same.
Shenmue DC assets in terms of graphics and sound are just useless on the 360 and PS3, never mind the PS4 or XBox 1
ORTA did that worldwide not in the USA. Same with HOTD3
And Blood Will Tell, Astro boy sold like shit in the USA and each Yakuza game was a flop from your American freinds on the PS2. In fact I think JSRF sold better than Yakuza in the USA
They did it with Microsoft, didn't work shopped it around, made a deal with china failed shopped it around etc etc.Like i said they were doing that last and current gen.
MS deal was done in 2001 when Peter Moore was still CEO of SEGA America , Shenmue Online years ago too. Nothing that comes from SEGA shows they have any real interest in making Shenmue 3 for this or next gen .
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I am >:D. Every with the groundwork done it still too SEGA and AM#2 years to make the DC games and cost SEGA millions and that's just bringing the game up from Saturn in DC 3D . The Jump between the 360 and PS3 to that of the DC is massive , never mind the XBox 1 or PS4 .
Years? The DC came out in 98 SHENMUE appeared in 2000. So were talking about a two year jump at the least from Saturn to DC. Give it up TA.
So it would need everything to be totally redone and that would take massive amounts of manpower and money .
Not really. Not with the experience Sega has under its belt.
So why does each GT game takes years to come out , why does the time to it takes to render each car and track go up with each instalment on each new machine, when it a lot of cases the cars and tracks are the same.
Your argument would make sense if you comopared it to another Sega team and not someone who isn't and cant even come close to the development and programming wizardy Sega has.
Shenmue DC assets in terms of graphics and sound are just useless on the 360 and PS3, never mind the PS4 or XBox 1
Refer to my second point. ::)
And Blood Will Tell, Astro boy sold like shit in the USA and each Yakuza game was a flop from your American freinds on the PS2. In fact I think JSRF sold better than Yakuza in the USA
But the Xbox was the one with the bigger flops across ALL markets. You can keep bringing certain titles on the other systems but the reality is most of the Sega gameson the other platforms made money. DORORO made money. YAKUZA made money. They didn't make money here in the west. Which is why SOA is reluctant to localise YAKUZA 5. Same pattern really. Sega experienced flop after flop on the xbox. So they didn't bother with making exclusive Xbox titles anymore and found another way to appeal to the xbox fanbase by using western talent to create 360 content for them.
MS deal was done in 2001 when Peter Moore was still CEO of SEGA America , Shenmue Online years ago too. Nothing that comes from SEGA shows they have any real interest in making Shenmue 3 for this or next gen .
And we can keep on spining. I was talking about how they made the jump to better systems. Behind the scenes Sega has tried to drum up intrest in the IP even doing so during the current gen. So that is hardly them not being intrested in SHENMUE.
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First, Shenmue actually came out in 1999. You would think this would hurt TA's point, but it wouldn't because you read it incorrectly. He said "DC games". As in both Shenmue and Shenmue 2. And Shenmue 2 wasn't released until 2001. So the plural of "years" when referring to both games is most definitely appropriate.
Speaking of which, do we even know when production on the Dreamcast games started?
I also don't understand how having "experience" can somehow make it possible to utilize assets from a Dreamcast game on Xbox One and PS4 without said game looking like shit by the standards of those platforms.
And since I'm posting in this conversation, I have a request of both of you: could you place post sources that state the sales numbers of the SEGA games your referring to (Jet Set, Yakuza, Blood Will Tell, Astro Boy, etc) as well as a source that states that any of these games (aside form Yakuza, obviously) made or lost money. I'm trying to gather up sources for use in future articles, so it would be appreciated.
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Years? The DC came out in 98 SHENMUE appeared in 2000. So were talking about a two year jump at the least from Saturn to DC. Give it up TA
Yes Years ..... To get the DC version of Shenmue up to date to where the Team got with the Saturn version took 2 games and until 2001 - that is years since the Saturn version would have been stopped in 1997/8. That's even with all the story, all the characters and having seen the Saturn footage, most of the gameplay motion capture and everything already done .
If it was so easy, Shenmue 2 would have come out mere months after the 1st game for starters, not some 20 months later ::) .
Not really. Not with the experience Sega has under its belt
Each new Yakuza game takes a massive team and Budget and there's now plenty of teams well used to making open worlds and realistic environments be that Rockstar North with GTA or Ubisoft and Assassin's creed and in all those cases it takes massive teams and loads of money to make those worlds .
Sega team and not someone who isn't and cant even come close to the development and programming wizardy Sega has.
Ubisoft are just as capable of bashing out yearly sequels to their Assassin's creed games as SEGA is with Yakuza . It still takes Ubi massive teams and loads of money.
Refer to my second point
The same wizards that took some 4 to 5 years to get DC Shenmue to that, of where they got with Saturn Shenmue ? . Everything needed to be redone and with the massive gulf in the rendering of the 360 to that of DC, it would be even more of a task to get the job done , never mind if Shenmue 3 was to come to the PS4 or XBox 1 .
You can keep bringing certain titles on the other systems but the reality is most of the Sega gameson the other platforms made money. DORORO made money. YAKUZA made money. They didn't make money here in the west.
I really doubt Blood with Tell made any money at all given it was in development for 4 years lots of money spend and all it got was 200,000 + plus in sales . JSRF I doubt any money was lost really on its development given we all know Smilebit were given free stuff by MS and SEGA singed a deal with MS for software, plus the game was developed by a small team and done in a year . HOTD 3 I doubt SEGA lost any money there it sold well enough and was a decent seller in the Arcade . I would imagine that the likes of SEGA GT, GV, Orta are where SEGA lost money on development myself.
Speaking of which, do we even know when production on the Dreamcast games started
Well I would say it would be sometime in 1997 given in one of his Interviews Yu Suzuki confirmed that's when he 1st started working on the DC tech. Saturn Shenmue started life out in 1994 and if we listen to Yu Suzuki coding the Saturn was just 8 months of work (that doesn't include research i bet though)
could you place post sources that state the sales numbers of the SEGA games your referring to (Jet Set, Yakuza, Blood Will Tell, Astro Boy, etc) as well as a source that states that any of these games (aside form Yakuza, obviously) made or lost money. I'm trying to gather up sources for use in future articles, so it would be appreciated.
Japanese sales you just go to sites like www.the-magicbox.com. America sales it used to be easy to in the old days , you could just go to neogaf.com and find the full America charts when NPD used to published the numbers each games sold in the top 20 (something they stopped years ago sadly ). Sadly you just got to guess if a game made a profit or not
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To my knowledge, there is no solid date as to when Shenmue actually started...in 1994, Suzuki started to envision the Shenmue story while researching Virtua Fighter in China. I would imagine Shenmue didn't start until a little bit into the Saturn's life, so maybe late 1995 or 1996? Saturn in the US started to decline in late 1997 or so, which would make sense if they started to warp things up and start on the Dreamcast version.
We do have a slight advantage with the fact that Saturn hardware was notoriously difficult to work with...so the two years that it took to switch over to the DC (and I don't know much if anything about development) could be partly attributed to the difficulty of the Saturn.
And honestly, if Shenmue III were a launch title for the Xbox One or PS4, I don't think even Shenmue I's graphics would be considered terrible. Yes, they are dated, by they were spectacular for their time, and held up well. I don't see what all of the fuss is about with Shenmue II on Xbox, because people thought "it clearly looked like a Dreamcast port". The no name character models yes, but everything else? The Shenmue series had fantastic graphics, and probably even stood up fairly well with some current generation games. So, I don't think it'd be such a HUGE process to update the game, at least not compared to something like modernizing Skies Of Arcadia or Sonic Adventure or the likes (while both looked good, just not Shenmue quality obviously).
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To my knowledge, there is no solid date as to when Shenmue actually started.
We do with a simple bit of maths ....
GameSpy: Speaking of time and money spent in development, and since you voiced an interest in FPS games, what do you think about the ongoing Duke Nukem Forever saga?
Mr. Osaki: Oh? What's the latest on that?
GameSpy: Well, it's been seven years since Take-Two announced it, and it's still not out yet. What are your thoughts on that?
Mr. Osaki: SEVEN YEARS!? [*turns to the PR person besides him*] You know, Shenmue only took us FIVE.
So seeing as Shenmue came out in 1999, it started life in 1994 :).
And honestly, if Shenmue III were a launch title for the Xbox One or PS4, I don't think even Shenmue I's graphics would be considered terrible.
Yes it would . its ways behind almost any 360, PS3 game around
So, I don't think it'd be such a HUGE process to update the game, at least not compared to something like modernizing Skies Of Arcadia or Sonic Adventure or the likes
It will and for one import reason , Skies and Sonic are fantasy , Shenmue is based on a real world and that is far harder to model and make realistic
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Shenmue 1 graphics would only work as a cheap arcade title on modern consoles, and even then I'm sure reviewers would give them really low marks.
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Yes, 1994 was been known for a while, just not a certain date.
As for the graphics, yes they are obviously dated. Just saying they stack up very well compared to other games of that era, and even a lot from the generation after. Maybe they wouldn't be up to par, but maybe my definition of terrible and is a lot different than what you guys are thinking. I'm thinking low quality Wii game terrible.
And it can't be that hard to do. I know nothing about development, but there are folks over at Shenmue Dojo making rendering scenes from Shenmue in beautiful HD, and they pop new screens out very often.
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I have said it before many times. I do not mind saying it again. Shenmue III would cost just about as much as any other game. It would make a lot more than a bad sonic game. It would be easy to make, since the script has already been written. The list goes on about what I have already stated in a different Shenmue III thread. There is no reason Sega should avoid this game. Why would anyone not want to play this game?
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It would be easy to make, since the script has already been written
Not that easy, if it was Shenmue 3 would have been done long ago . You got to fill up that game with gameplay and things to do to keep the player interested and want to play the game and that's a lot different than just having the script and story done...
Shenmue III would cost just about as much as any other game.
It wouldn't, but then it wouldn't cost much more than any AAA RPG made today
As for the graphics, yes they are obviously dated. Just saying they stack up very well compared to other games of that era, and even a lot from the generation afte
And that's becasue Yu Suzuki demanded utter perfection and had a massive team and budget. If Shenmue III isn't made to to same standards people will slag SEGA off for doing Shenmue 3 on the cheap . Also while Shenmue 2 looks good, it pales to almost all games made today , even my mobile can handle better GFX
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Yes, I realize this. And I agree. It needs to be made up to standard.
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Wouldn't outsourcing it to Rockstar North be a good idea?
They know how to make a Sanboxed game as we know with the GTA series, all they have to do is strip it to form a game where you interact with the people (I mean a population of people) and leave in the aspects of what made Shenmue interesting. Stripping out the cars, people, guns and the like would mean that Rockstar wouldn't need to spend as much on it as the GTA games.
If GTA5 cost £170 million, stripping it to it's more basic form AND making it so that the characters and people models are larger to give Shenmue that personal experience surely wouldn't cost SEGA any more than £20/30 million, although I understand if people don't agree with my idea, it's just something I thought would be a good idea.
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My opinion: Suzuki and his dream team only should ever touch Shenmue.
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The models would have to be updated, but actually a lot of the textures already exist in very high resolution, as has been seen with hacks and emulation. As for the overall look, all textures are hand painted, as opposed to photo textures as seen with games like GTA and Yakuza. Unfortunately the mainstream gamers tend to think only realistic, photo-based art direction = "good" graphics. However, I think we're getting to a time in gaming when there is more diversity of art direction, and the painted look of Shenmue could still be accepted if they maintain that aesthetic.
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My opinion: Suzuki and his dream team only should ever touch Shenmue.
That dream team was people who made console ports of AM2's Arcade games, it does not exist to the extent it did back then.
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The models would have to be updated, but actually a lot of the textures already exist in very high resolution, as has been seen with hacks and emulation.
That's different and just an image being upscaled and even then Shenmue its miles off most Modern 360 and PS3 games , To be a real sequel to Shenmue, to be and feel like a real Shenmue game Shenmue 3 would need to have some of the best gfx and the 1 of the best games engines seen to date. Anything less would lead to SEGA being held out to dry for doing it on the cheap and who it's not a worthy sequel.
Unfortunately the mainstream gamers tend to think only realistic, photo-based art direction = "good" graphics.
Shenmue is all about realism it's what makes the game feel so speical, even today . Hell in a interview with retrogamer one of the programeres said how they had to study and research fish and pond life, even though the fish only appear in the intro for a couple of secounds .
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No, it's not just being upscaled. The original textures are in fact high resolution. And as for your other point, while Shenmue is realistic in certain ways, its art direction is certainly stylized, as every single texture is painted. That's one of the reasons why its appearance is significantly less dated-looking than its GTA contemporaries.
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That dream team was people who made console ports of AM2's Arcade games, it does not exist to the extent it did back then.
I realize this. Obviously, I don't think there is a fan alive that would only play the game if every single person involved with the first two were involved. I just want Suzuki and a good team behind him, no matter who that is. And the composers.
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The original textures are in fact high resolution.
No they aren't . Fact is one of the aera's where Shenmue looks rather poor these days is the low res textures that and the DC rather primitive lighting effects . Like a lot of DC game they might have looked great at the time, but when you go back and play them they have dated a lot
That's one of the reasons why its appearance is significantly less dated-looking than its GTA contemporaries.
No its just that it was a really well made impressive game and game engine , but dated it is . Silent Hill 3 still looks good , but it's dated , RE 4 looks nice, but well dated to the graphics of this gen same for Half Life 2 which like Shenmue really went to town on detail and trying to make a living breathing world, but is now dated to what modern FPS engines can do
Shenmue is realistic in certain ways, its art direction is certainly stylized
Shenmue graphics were made to simulate the real world and all games will be stylized in some way or another
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Shenmue graphics were made to simulate the real world and all games will be stylized in some way or another
You've really lost the plot now! Just kidding, that would be a ROJM response. But I'm sorry, if you can't see that every single texture in Shenmue is a painting, and that the game's art direction is to resemble a painting, then I can't help you any further. You want Shenmue III to look like Battlefield or something, just for bragging rights? Forget it. I suppose you think Valkyria Chronicles would look better in Unreal Engine?
As for the textures, I'm not saying that every texture, or even most textures are high resolution. But some of them really are. It's not a result of upscaling, either. Their native resolution is just high, comparable to (and sometimes better than) the small details you'll see up close in something like GTA. Mostly decorative items, like items in shops, posters on walls, etc. -- small details, but it's the details that help make the world come alive. In any case, the original point is that some of the work, not all of it or most of it, is already of acceptable high quality, and that's a testament to how forward-thinking Suzuki and co. were in the time of developing Shenmue.
(http://i.imgur.com/aGvR3S9.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fpyPt.jpg)
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But I'm sorry, if you can't see that every single texture in Shenmue is a painting, and that the game's art direction is to resemble a painting, then I can't help you any further. You want Shenmue III to look like Battlefield or something, just for bragging rights? Forget it. I suppose you think Valkyria Chronicles would look better in Unreal Engine?
If Shenmue wanyed to look like a painting then it would have looked far more like Skies of Arcadia, or Chronicles and you make a very silly point with the Unreal Engine play the likes of Mirror Edge or Borderlands, Bioshock for games that have their own look 'stylized' arty look, hell even Guilty Gear Xrd uses Unreal and that's looks like a painting in screen shots.
As for the textures, I'm not saying that every texture, or even most textures are high resolution. But some of them really are. It's not a result of upscaling, either. Their native resolution is just high, comparable to (and sometimes better than) the small details you'll see up close in something like GTA.
No they're all look low res and dated . Just look at the detail on the characters you posted . Details like buttons on the clothing or even the detail on the human ear are just simple shading and texture maps - not built up with polygons or using Parallax/Bump mapping to give detail and true debth. Compare to the humans and worlds we see in the likes of Uncharated 2, Half Life 2, Assassin's creed 2, Heavy Rain, LA Noire its miles off
Point is the game was made with late 90's tech and CRT screen res in mind .Almost everything would need to be re done given the Artists will have so many more polygons and effects to play with . People like might say that's easy, but bare one thing in mind.... It Took AM#2 some 2 years to make Shenmue 2 on the DC, that's after the engine being done (with part 1) and the game only talking the series up to where they got too with Saturn development . So sorry no Shenmue 3 will be easy or quick to make and unless Shenmue 3 has graphics equal too or better than anything else around (just like Shenmue on the DC) then people will say its not a true Shenmue game, not keeping the spirt of the game and its being done on the cheap