SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: cube_b3 on April 03, 2014, 11:06:10 pm
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Hiya,
I have been collaborating with David on a reprint for the color hardcover version of the book. We have successfully raised enough money for a reprint but we need to raise another grand to give the book a nice dust jacket and a book mark.
The original color hc was for 200$, in this Kickstarter we have reduced the price over 60%.
That is 480 color pages!
www.historyofsega.com
We also have an awesome T-Shirt for only 20$, that comes with a free eBook.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/613/288/084e11e401bcd3fcc68fff63fbd4ad6a_large.PNG?1391908503)
Thanks for your support.
KickStarter ends in 18 Hours.
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Did you know the fonts used are not meant to be used for commercial use?
http://www.clavis.ne.jp/~sonic/segasonic/act5/font.htm
Also, does the book list the image sources? I'm seeing a lot of SEGA Retro content.
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The eBook fonts are custom, check your settings.
This book is an enhanced and revised edition of Sega Base, the first Sega history website on the internet which was created in the late 90s. It should predate Sega Retro's existence.
Not trying to diminish the excellent work Sega Retro has done for the community but as far as I know it is a Wiki based Encyclopedia; hence it should not have any original research.
I hope I have answered your question, please support us.
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Well, you didn't answer the questions Cube because its not true. Here is the font from my photoshop, which I got from http://www.clavis.ne.jp/~sonic/segasonic/act5/font.htm
(http://i.imgur.com/XyW2iGA.jpg)
Says on the site don't use fonts for commercial use, which you guys have and now are lying about. Who knows what else you guys are lying about.
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Yeah, unless you are referring to other fonts, those are the Nise fonts. If they're not, maybe you could show me these custom fonts via a screengrab of the font preview?
I'm not trying to call the internet police, I was just noting that they're fonts that are not meant for commercial/business use.
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Re: Retro - "hence it should not have any original research"
Completely wrong on that one.
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The eBook fonts are custom, check your settings.
This book is an enhanced and revised edition of Sega Base, the first Sega history website on the internet which was created in the late 90s. It should predate Sega Retro's existence.
So it's less accurate? :V
Not trying to diminish the excellent work Sega Retro has done for the community but as far as I know it is a Wiki based Encyclopedia; hence it should not have any original research.
It's amazing how wrong you are.
I'd also not just judge all wikis as websites that just take their info from elsewhere. I know for a fact that you can probably piss some people off by doing that without crediting the website (*cough*tcrf*cough*)
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Semi-o.t.
Meanwhile, the fall of SEGA continues, at least from the point of view of R&D consumer, in fact today's news is that even Ryuta Ueda has left the dear old big S :'(
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I don't get why you guys didn't offer more than five softcover copies. The leap from $30 for a softcover to $75 for a hardcover was just too staggering. Probably would've supported this otherwise.
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I've read 40 pages so far and... it's not that great. I mean I appreciate the effort, but there errors that really should have been corrected, no real effort put into the layout and design, and (as mentioned) images were not cited. I paged through and some things jumped out at me: Image resolution is all over the place, SEGA of America's building is labeled as being SEGA Europe HQ (c'mon guys) and there are out of place top ten lists in one section where a guy just lists the ten worst SEGA CD games and number 2 just says "most of the FMV games". Pointless list and not very professional. :-/
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Ah, I thought this was a licensed book. Maybe I'm thinking of the other one that's floating around right now. The Mega Drive one. Either way, I'd be interested to see a full write up on the front page at some point. Negative reviews are equally as useful as positive ones.
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You mean: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/darrenwall/sega-mega-drive-genesis-collected-works/posts?page=2 ?
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Yep, that's it.
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I have been confused over the font until George posted the picture.
It wasn't the font in the book it was on the cover art.
I can see the complaints being valid. I was concerned too, when George posted them,
I reached to our Project Lead and he informed me that we were given permission to use the font.
Makes sense, the book is being sold on a dozen platforms.
Would it have been possible if we didn't have consent?
Those who have been following the project over the years would remember one of the earlier cover arts had the SEGA logo on it.
@ Barry: The references will be added onto our official site. As for your other criticism, David our project lead worked to the best of his ability. Additionally, all backers who pledged more than 20$ were invited to proof read and work on the project. I was a backer on the original Kickstarter and I did help out as much time and money allowed me too.
Although I have only joined now as part of the 2nd Kickstarter.
The book went through several drafts.
https://www.facebook.com/ServiceGamesTheRiseAndFallOfSega/photos_stream (https://www.facebook.com/ServiceGamesTheRiseAndFallOfSega/photos_stream)
You should be able to see them in the timeline, as well as a few covers that we considered.
On the Kickstarter page our project lead David shared dozens and dozens of cover choices.
@ Saturn Memories: I have been informed that this was the cheapest we could have done given the number of units we are producing. We are actually doing some exciting stuff behind the scene, like trying to fulfill the stretch goals even though the funding didn't reach it.
@ Timmit: As I told Barry just now, we are working on our website.
We will add some of the content on the website, such as our reference pages.
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Lastly to all I would just like to say this is a labor of love. I am a backer, I have paid to be a part of this historic project. Additionally I have taken days off work to speak to business backers. I believe in this project and here is my story:
http://www.seganerds.com/2014/01/18/service-games-rise-fall-of-sega-enhanced-edition-history-book-now-shipping/ (http://www.seganerds.com/2014/01/18/service-games-rise-fall-of-sega-enhanced-edition-history-book-now-shipping/)
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Please excuse any typo's I have had a long day and am going to bed.
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I'm just confused as to why you're only selling five softcover copies. If you're not making enough money off of them, why would you sell them at all? If you are making enough, why wouldn't you offer to sell more? Are they leftover proofs for the hardcovers or something?
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@Cube_b3: Thanks for the prompt and detailed answer. Not sure if I'm 100% convinced, but the answer is fine enough for me. Again Cube, no hate on you, I like your passion for the project.
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Everything about the shirt is fine but I'm not sure I'd wear something that says "The Rise and Fall" it's like I'm associating myself with failure, heh. Otherwise a good shirt.
Semi-o.t.
Meanwhile, the fall of SEGA continues, at least from the point of view of R&D consumer, in fact today's news is that even Ryuta Ueda has left the dear old big S :'(
Coupled this with the news that Japanese video games has been the lowest since 1997, it's dark times for the industry over there. A shame really, it seems SEGA's Western output is the only thing that will keep them relevant at this rate.
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Coupled this with the news that Japanese video games has been the lowest since 1997, it's dark times for the industry over there. A shame really, it seems SEGA's Western output is the only thing that will keep them relevant at this rate.
Yes Sir, completely agree, the next Alien game is very promising and the various Western studios are up to the task but the Japan :(
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Frankly I'm surprised Cube got behind this project considering how you where very against me mentioning the discontinuing of the Dreamcast when we did our 'Dreamcast month' last September. I thought a title like 'The Rise and Fall of SEGA' would turn you off.
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Frankly I'm surprised Cube got behind this project considering how you where very against me mentioning the discounting of the Dreamcast when we did our 'Dreamcast month' last September. I thought a title like 'The Rise and Fall of SEGA' would turn you off.
Well... count me among those who don't like that subtitle either. Sega's had its ups and downs, no doubt, but they are survivors and have managed to make a lot of great games up to this day. It would seem to be more appropriate for a company that didn't make it. To kind of personify or view Sega in a dramatic way, I would have to say that they are ultimately triumphant, although of course have been changed tremendously over the course of time.
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@ Saturn Memories: I do not understand your question.
@ Aki-At: Shit... I think I've known you for over 5 years and I have never seen you acknowledge things are bad. You always came up with reasoning such as it takes longer to develop games now or something else.
Glad to see we are on the same page.
@ George: I think you are talking to me, you switched your tone from 3rd person to 1st person so I am a little confused. I will also assume you meant discontinued rather than discounted.
I don't remember the details of our conversations back in September but it does sound like something I would say.
Dreamcast has more support now than it has had in years.
> Their are new accessories being developed for it such as the SD-Card Reader.
> The devkits for the system are constantly being revised.
> Their has also been in a surge in development engines, with TDG releasing the 3DGE engine and an enhanced Quake 2 engine, soon to be available to the public. Pretty soon we will have indie games running on Quake 3 engine.
Most importantly we have more Dreamcast games now than we did in the last few years of SEGA support.
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As far as Sega is concerned, it is a dynamic organization, dead or alive will never factor in, even Atari is still around. The book is concerned with the Rise and Fall of the home console manufacturer.
I personally wanted the book to stretch to the Sammy Merger/Exodus of talent.
I love the title of the book.
Though I have to agree with Aki-At that maybe Rise & Fall isn't necessary on the T-Shirt.
BTW if anyone is still interested in getting T-Shirts let me know.
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If you ordered more softcovers, the cost per unit would've gone down, and if you had more to sell at around that $30 mark, you probably would've attracted more backers to your Kickstarter. What I fail to understand is why you offered five softcover copies at all. The cost of manufacturing a mere five copies would be significantly more than had you ordered a larger quantity.
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Yes Sir, completely agree, the next Alien game is very promising and the various Western studios are up to the task but the Japan :(
It's awful! Terrible, Japan's gaming industry is collapsing, the Playstation 4 is struggling and the 3DS nor Vita are pushing amazing numbers anymore. The developers have only themselves to blame, fragmenting it by supporting only one or two consoles and then being unable to get to grips with HD development and trying to make Westernized games which was never the answer. There's a lot of points to be made but perhaps it's best for another thread.
@ Aki-At: Shit... I think I've known you for over 5 years and I have never seen you acknowledge things are bad. You always came up with reasoning such as it takes longer to develop games now or something else.
Glad to see we are on the same page.
SEGA were fine between 2008 - 2012, the amount of games released coupled with what they were releasing was great, I'd say 2012 was infact the best third party year they ever had in terms of game quality.
The problem is this is the trend in Japanese gaming;
(http://abload.de/img/fy_market_famitsu_201lgsz6.png)
Coupled this with two major new IPs for SEGA opening less than 20,000 and Ryu Ga Gotoku: Ishin struggling to meet its target I must face the reality in regards to the future of the Japanese video game market.
SEGA will survive in thanks to their smart acquisitions of popular Western IPs and Sonic the Hedgehog but I am wary in regards to heavy weights like Konami and Capcom. Dark times ahead for Japanese video game companies, I am hoping the indie revolutionary might help Japan out but I am still unsure if it can do anything at all...
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As far as Sega is concerned, it is a dynamic organization, dead or alive will never factor in, even Atari is still around. The book is concerned with the Rise and Fall of the home console manufacturer.
Atari isn't comparable to Sega at all. Atari exists only as a name that has been bought and sold numerous times now, currently owned by some dreadful French conglomerate. Sega has existed as its own company (group of companies, really) continuously, both before and after their forays into home consoles. Maybe if the subtitle mentioned the console aspect specifically it would sound better to me, but as it is it just seems a little insulting or at least misguided.
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Rise and Fall of SEGA Console would be better.
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Personally, I'm fine with the name. The Sega of old is very much dead.
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Atari isn't comparable to Sega at all. Atari exists only as a name that has been bought and sold numerous times now, currently owned by some dreadful French conglomerate. Sega has existed as its own company (group of companies, really) continuously, both before and after their forays into home consoles. Maybe if the subtitle mentioned the console aspect specifically it would sound better to me, but as it is it just seems a little insulting or at least misguided.
It gets too long winded if it was Service Games: The Rise and Fall of SEGA Consoles but it paints a far too negative image with just The Rise and Fall.
I suppose it comes down to how much you enjoyed/disliked the direction SEGA took after exiting consoles and where they are now to where you stand in regards to the name of the book. I found 2012 to be a brilliant year and probably the best SEGA's been since moving third party (And they could even give some of their console years a run for their money) so fall is too harsh a word for me to like.
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Needless to say I am not a fan of the current SEGA. So I love the title, back when I interviewed David for SEGAbits, forum members complained about the title and he wrote if you can suggest a better one I am willing to change the title.
Service Games is the biggest collaborative effort that SEGA fans have ever engaged in and it is unfortunate that many from SEGAbits missed their chance to participate in it.
The book is a mature look at SEGA and to date this is the most comprehensive look at the history of the company in print, if you can't get past then it really is your loss.
@ SM: I can't find what you are talking about.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1532433459/service-games-the-rise-and-fall-of-sega-hardcover (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1532433459/service-games-the-rise-and-fall-of-sega-hardcover)
We only had a custom cover softback option and it only raised 150$ via 5 copies. This Kickstarter was basically funding the Audio Edition of the book and giving people like me who missed out another chance to buy the hardcover.
@ Aki-At: You are always good with statistics. I don't care too much for them. For 6 years now the only SEGA game that I've played are Sonic or Yakuza, with the exception of Binary Domain. I can't really think of anything and if I can't think of it while I make this post that is all that needs to be said about my Sega.
Funny enough I can think of so many unique Dreamcast games released over the past 6 years, anyone who has taken the time to pick up and play W&W loves it to death. R4 got some excellent press.
More recently GunLords started to blur the lines between indie and commercial games, while Sturmwind erased the line and now stands as one of the best games on Dreamcast/best sh'mups of all time.
Offcourse none of my statements can be statistically proven, but anyone who has picked up and played the games I've mentioned would agree with me. ;)
I've missed our discussions ;) .
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Service Games is the biggest collaborative effort that SEGA fans have ever engaged in
No it's not. :V
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Cube, that's because you guys only offered five copies. Once they were filled, that was it. No one else could order more. Believe me, I was about to order, but it said "ALL GONE." Next option was $80 for a hardcover. I decided that was too expensive and walked away.
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You think this book is the greatest thing SEGA fans have ever engaged in and that we should feel bad for not covering? You know what I feel bad for? I feel bad that the author doesn't have the time enough to address issues being brought up in his book. I think its a insult to fans, he isn't some big time published author and you need to stop overhyping the project. I read the preview and there already a ton of mistakes, if this is the best 'SEGA fans' can come up with, you are insulting all of us.
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@ SM: Again, you are referring to the customer cover book that was softcover. That was a business backer thing, allowing business backers to sell it with their own custom cover. The whole purpose of the 2nd Kickstarter was to give people another chance to buy a low price color hardcover while we could raise some money for the audio edition.
The actual softcover can be purchased for 25$ MSRP, you can easily find it for much cheaper on amazon. Have fun!
@ George: Sam Pettus is a published author, however he uses a pen name. Specifically to avoid haters. This is a book for the community by the community. Eidolons Inns previous effort included the Tavern RPG however that eventually spun off into Pier Solar.
Correct me if I am wrong but we do not have any other books that tons of community members collaborated on that was released commercially? The book on the cover only credit 5 authors, but if you actually open the book you will see that their are over a hundred credited contributors (such as myself), who helped provide references and proof read the book before David Munoz went for a final read through and then when he was done we brought in a "big time published" author/editor David Chen.
I read the original SEGA BASE over a decade ago, it inspired me on so many levels and not just on gaming but on a more professional level. I think I was 14 when I read it, it wasn't the first rise and fall feature I had read but it was certainly the most human. Sega Base wasn't about SOJ did that and SOA did this, it was about the relationship between people. People like you and me.
Now so many years later I can't wait to read the fully realized book. I have read two reviews and I was discussing them with our project lead and we were sad that a few things could not be addressed but David was happy with all he could accomplish.
We have a writer at DC Emu I won't take any names, but I have known him for over a decade and he has really taught me a lot over the years and he hated Sega Base because it focused to much on America and he wanted the book to have a more global focus. When David Munoz released the original book back in 2012 he hated it with a passion. David invited him to join the team and he basically just listed all the things wrong with Sega of America and blamed David for being overly sympathetic towards SOA. Note that the original edition was basically SEGA BASE in print. So David shouldn't even have been blamed for it.
Nonetheless, he is a senior member and he obviously knows a lot more about the history of the company but instead of being positive or constructive he was more interested in hating. David listened to his complaints and found Kevin and Ivan who also had the same complaints, only instead of hating these two gentlemen wanted to help fix and expand the history written in the original book.
Now I have already said this before and it is unfortunate because this was almost the tone of the commentators at Bits as well back when I interviewed David.
Instead of uniting the community and bringing enlightened connoisseurs on board the comments were just weird:
- "OMG THE NAME IS SO WRONG, CHANGE IT!!"_ Random Commentator
- "for the record, we aren't opposed to changing the name do you have any suggestions" _ David
- SEGA BASE SUCKS _ Another commentator writes in response.
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In conclusion, I will reiterate that those who had a genuine love for the company coupled with expansive knowledge missed out on an opportunity.
Anyway those who are interested in a book by big time published author can look forward to Console Wars by Blake Harris though from the description it looks like it won't go to far beyond 1989 - 1994.
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Have fun!
At this point, I'll pass.
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@ George: Sam Pettus is a published author, however he uses a pen name. Specifically to avoid haters. This is a book for the community by the community. Eidolons Inns previous effort included the Tavern RPG however that eventually spun off into Pier Solar.
Correct me if I am wrong but we do not have any other books that tons of community members collaborated on that was released commercially? The book on the cover only credit 5 authors, but if you actually open the book you will see that their are over a hundred credited contributors (such as myself), who helped provide references and proof read the book before David Munoz went for a final read through and then when he was done we brought in a "big time published" author/editor David Chen.
I read the original SEGA BASE over a decade ago, it inspired me on so many levels and not just on gaming but on a more professional level. I think I was 14 when I read it, it wasn't the first rise and fall feature I had read but it was certainly the most human. Sega Base wasn't about SOJ did that and SOA did this, it was about the relationship between people. People like you and me.
Now so many years later I can't wait to read the fully realized book. I have read two reviews and I was discussing them with our project lead and we were sad that a few things could not be addressed but David was happy with all he could accomplish.
We have a writer at DC Emu I won't take any names, but I have known him for over a decade and he has really taught me a lot over the years and he hated Sega Base because it focused to much on America and he wanted the book to have a more global focus. When David Munoz released the original book back in 2012 he hated it with a passion. David invited him to join the team and he basically just listed all the things wrong with Sega of America and blamed David for being overly sympathetic towards SOA. Note that the original edition was basically SEGA BASE in print. So David shouldn't even have been blamed for it.
Nonetheless, he is a senior member and he obviously knows a lot more about the history of the company but instead of being positive or constructive he was more interested in hating. David listened to his complaints and found Kevin and Ivan who also had the same complaints, only instead of hating these two gentlemen wanted to help fix and expand the history written in the original book.
Now I have already said this before and it is unfortunate because this was almost the tone of the commentators at Bits as well back when I interviewed David.
Instead of uniting the community and bringing enlightened connoisseurs on board the comments were just weird:
- "OMG THE NAME IS SO WRONG, CHANGE IT!!"_ Random Commentator
- "for the record, we aren't opposed to changing the name do you have any suggestions" _ David
- SEGA BASE SUCKS _ Another commentator writes in response.
____________________________________
In conclusion, I will reiterate that those who had a genuine love for the company coupled with expansive knowledge missed out on an opportunity.
Anyway those who are interested in a book by big time published author can look forward to Console Wars by Blake Harris though from the description it looks like it won't go to far beyond 1989 - 1994.
Most contributors =/= most accurate book. If anything, the book could potentially become less accurate if the contributions aren't checked properly to see if they're actually true. And considering the book does have mistakes, it's easy to assume that that is the case.
It's also amazing how you wrote this much and you either didn't address the issues or you actually made them worse. Yes, there are people who write poorly and give poor criticism. But just ignoring all comments because of those people means that actual important criticisms are missed.
Also cube, can you please stop overhyping the book? Because at this point you just sound like a snake oil salesman.
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It's awful! Terrible, Japan's gaming industry is collapsing, the Playstation 4 is struggling and the 3DS nor Vita are pushing amazing numbers anymore. The developers have only themselves to blame, fragmenting it by supporting only one or two consoles and then being unable to get to grips with HD development and trying to make Westernized games which was never the answer. There's a lot of points to be made but perhaps it's best for another thread.
SEGA were fine between 2008 - 2012, the amount of games released coupled with what they were releasing was great, I'd say 2012 was infact the best third party year they ever had in terms of game quality.
The problem is this is the trend in Japanese gaming;
(http://abload.de/img/fy_market_famitsu_201lgsz6.png)
Coupled this with two major new IPs for SEGA opening less than 20,000 and Ryu Ga Gotoku: Ishin struggling to meet its target I must face the reality in regards to the future of the Japanese video game market.
SEGA will survive in thanks to their smart acquisitions of popular Western IPs and Sonic the Hedgehog but I am wary in regards to heavy weights like Konami and Capcom. Dark times ahead for Japanese video game companies, I am hoping the indie revolutionary might help Japan out but I am still unsure if it can do anything at all...
Interesting graph there Aki!
I believe there are a few problems regarding Japan's struggling market, and I do believe it's to do with their economy, the Yen re-evaluation, the inflated prices of products in Japan in addition to the Ageing Population, the managerial structure in Japan (where the Senior positions rarely retire for their younger peers to step up), the reluctance to adapt for the Global market, in addition to things like work overload by males, the lack of reproducing between adults and the rise of a culture where socialising with your work colleagues rather than neighbours or other social activity friends.
Some of that may or may not contribute to the lowered profits of Japanese games, but when you have the likes of even Nintendo failing to even up-start their home console in Japan, I do believe that the gap in the population is a very big and worrying problem, not just for Gaming, but for Japanese centric hobbies, media and even the Japanese people are indeed in danger of becoming a less populated race.
I don't mean to sound harsh in any of these criticisms, I genuinely believe the solutions to their economy, population and perhaps the immigration problems can be solved with actions from the Government (god forbid me saying that, as I am very anti-Government at the moment).
SEGA will indeed survive moreso than the likes of Capcom and Konami, but they can't rely on their western studios alone. The profits from them are indeed high, but I am guessing that (I am likely wrong) sales in their home territory is what SEGA needs to stay afloat.
Overall, I am not too bothered by SEGA's future. I am confident in saying that they'll weather the storm, but I honestly think almost all Japanese Development Studios (and publishers) need to invest in new blood. Recruiting students from college/university is just what they all need. Looking at some of SEGA's own well known producers, the youngest ones are in their mid 40s, whereas their oldest producers are getting into their 60s.
I admire Japan's work ethic and dedication, especially in their latter years, but I do believe they need to know when it's time to retire and have faith in their younger staff.
This is only my hypothesis and not based on any facts. :P
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What fall of Sega? They still exist, they're profitable, they top the sales charts regularly, they have games on every platform and are one of the leading Japanese PC developers and Steam supporters making it easier to play their classics than ever before, still dominate in the Arcade industry and just baught Atlus... Alien Isolation was voted the best game at Rezzed...
I get that some people want more high budget titles from Sega Japan but otherwise I see Sega as pretty damn on the ball right now.
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I get that some people want more high budget titles from Sega Japan but otherwise I see Sega as pretty damn on the ball right now.
Here! Sharky, this is the sore point; what one complains mainly, myself included, for the rest of you are quite right.
Ah, cheers Sharky!
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What fall of Sega? They still exist, they're profitable, they top the sales charts regularly, they have games on every platform and are one of the leading Japanese PC developers and Steam supporters making it easier to play their classics than ever before, still dominate in the Arcade industry and just baught Atlus... Alien Isolation was voted the best game at Rezzed...
I get that some people want more high budget titles from Sega Japan but otherwise I see Sega as pretty damn on the ball right now.
Sorry to put a downer on things, but I need to say this:
In comparison to their Japanese rivals, they're doing much better then people give them credit for, that much is certain.
However, topping the charts doesn't necessarily mean success. Especially when they're in the charts for about a week or two before falling off of it, add to that a pretty low ranking chart, where Number 1 sold 10k units.
As for the rest, I can't exactly say whether they are Number 1 on the PC/Steam or not, but they are certainly up there.
Arcade wise, they're pretty high too, but I don't think the Arcade scene is nearly as relevant as it used to be, given that arcades are being closed down every year worldwide.
SEGA also didn't necessarily buy ATLUS, Sammy did. It's a bold move actually, and something I commend them doing, but otherwise I don't think SEGA would have bought ATLUS with the losses they made the years before.
I'm happy SEGA still exists at all, but it's still a damn shame they aren't making as many games as we'd hope.
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Sorry to put a downer on things, but I need to say this:
In comparison to their Japanese rivals, they're doing much better then people give them credit for, that much is certain.
However, topping the charts doesn't necessarily mean success. Especially when they're in the charts for about a week or two before falling off of it, add to that a pretty low ranking chart, where Number 1 sold 10k units.
As for the rest, I can't exactly say whether they are Number 1 on the PC/Steam or not, but they are certainly up there.
Arcade wise, they're pretty high too, but I don't think the Arcade scene is nearly as relevant as it used to be, given that arcades are being closed down every year worldwide.
SEGA also didn't necessarily buy ATLUS, Sammy did. It's a bold move actually, and something I commend them doing, but otherwise I don't think SEGA would have bought ATLUS with the losses they made the years before.
I'm happy SEGA still exists at all, but it's still a damn shame they aren't making as many games as we'd hope.
I'd actually like to see them release more arcade-style games with international appeal for Live, PSN, and Steam. Gimme a new Daytona or something.
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Here! Sharky, this is the sore point; what one complains mainly, myself included, for the rest of you are quite right.
Ah, cheers Sharky!
Cheers too you!! Deefy!
Sorry to put a downer on things, but I need to say this:
In comparison to their Japanese rivals, they're doing much better then people give them credit for, that much is certain.
However, topping the charts doesn't necessarily mean success. Especially when they're in the charts for about a week or two before falling off of it, add to that a pretty low ranking chart, where Number 1 sold 10k units.
As for the rest, I can't exactly say whether they are Number 1 on the PC/Steam or not, but they are certainly up there.
Arcade wise, they're pretty high too, but I don't think the Arcade scene is nearly as relevant as it used to be, given that arcades are being closed down every year worldwide.
SEGA also didn't necessarily buy ATLUS, Sammy did. It's a bold move actually, and something I commend them doing, but otherwise I don't think SEGA would have bought ATLUS with the losses they made the years before.
I'm happy SEGA still exists at all, but it's still a damn shame they aren't making as many games as we'd hope.
I think they have been doing quite well in the charts in Japan and selling much more than 10k units on their bigger games, though Im no expert right now Aki's chart summeries always seem quite positive! And as they are regularly making an overall profit I think they must be doing something right!
I'm not saying they are number 1 on Steam, but they have more games up there than most western publishers and by far more than any other Japanese publisher. Which is a very good thing for me as I'm really not interested in Games Consoles at the moment.
The arcade industry is dying, that is for sure but I'm happy that Sega can still make a profit from it and really are the last big publisher keeping it afloat. I think if Sega dropped Arcades suddenly it would leave a huge hole.
I don't really see much difference between Sega and Sammy at this point, it was a merge the money pot is held by a joined company. But it was definitely Sega which bid for and bought Atlus, regardless of who's money they were using.
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Considering that the book is about SEGA's hardware years, I'm not too against the title, since technically they did 'Rise and Fall' out of the the hardware business.
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The "Rise & Fall" bit is badly placed in the title, I think. Stating "Service Games" implies going all the way back to the company's beginnings (which the book does) but then the "Rise & Fall of SEGA" bit implies that SEGA as a whole has fallen. The problem is, if you we're to go back and chart the beginnings of the company through to today, you'd see that SEGA isn't just about home consoles. As a home console maker, they've only spanned 1983-2001 (18 years). As a business as a whole they've grown, through acquisitions and expanding their reach in various markets in order to survive, and in many cases thrive, as a company.
A far better title would be "Service Games: The Evolution of SEGA" - because let's be honest with ourselves, it sucks that there isn't a SEGA console now in 2014, but the company simply couldn't maintain what they were doing after Sony and Microsoft entered the arena. If anything, the company changed in order to survive, and by and large they were successful.
Let's also remember that SEGA began their presence in homes publishing games for other hardware makers.
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problem is, if you we're to go back and chart the beginnings of the company through to today, you'd see that SEGA isn't just about home consoles. As a home console maker, they've only spanned 1983-2001 (18 years). As a business as a whole they've grown, through acquisitions and expanding their reach in various markets in order to survive, and in many cases thrive, as a company.
Couldn't agree with you more. There seems to be a lot of people who equate Sega solely as the Home Console Manufacturer. If anything they should be regarded as an entertainment brand as I can't think of any branch of entertainment that they are not involved in in some capacity.
That's why the common comment of "CompanyX should just buy out Sega already" is just annoying. No understanding of how far their reach actually is.
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Meh, I look at it from the perspective of their best years being well behind them. Shove a sales chart in my face and try to tell me otherwise if you want, but to me, they're a shell of their former self.
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Interesting graph there Aki!
I believe there are a few problems regarding Japan's struggling market, and I do believe it's to do with their economy, the Yen re-evaluation, the inflated prices of products in Japan in addition to the Ageing Population, the managerial structure in Japan (where the Senior positions rarely retire for their younger peers to step up), the reluctance to adapt for the Global market, in addition to things like work overload by males, the lack of reproducing between adults and the rise of a culture where socialising with your work colleagues rather than neighbours or other social activity friends.
The strange thing is outside of entertainment, Japan in general is still a massive global leader in several markets. Audio-Technica, Wacom, Honda etc are all top quality companies. I suppose the difference is Japan's other industry have adapted to ensure their products have a global appeal, whilst their entertainment products are designed first at being suitable for the Japanese marketplace and then the world.
SEGA will indeed survive moreso than the likes of Capcom and Konami, but they can't rely on their western studios alone. The profits from them are indeed high, but I am guessing that (I am likely wrong) sales in their home territory is what SEGA needs to stay afloat.
Actually majority of SEGA's software sales come from Europe and America. Whilst it's true they get a bigger share of the revenue in Japan, the fact that they have 4 multi-million sellings IPs (And own the license to 2 more) means their Western core gaming sales outpace their Japanese ones. It really is smartphone gaming that is giving SEGA their bulk of their money in Japan, simply because it is the biggest part of the market.
Overall, I am not too bothered by SEGA's future. I am confident in saying that they'll weather the storm, but I honestly think almost all Japanese Development Studios (and publishers) need to invest in new blood. Recruiting students from college/university is just what they all need. Looking at some of SEGA's own well known producers, the youngest ones are in their mid 40s, whereas their oldest producers are getting into their 60s.
Fan fact, the team that developed Sonic Unleashed was mostly made of new employees. Really what they need is good producers, something they have been seriously lacking. Iizuka is okay to good but often seems out of his depth. He has done well steadying the ship but that's about it I believe, they need a better producer taking care of the Sonic franchise.
However, topping the charts doesn't necessarily mean success. Especially when they're in the charts for about a week or two before falling off of it, add to that a pretty low ranking chart, where Number 1 sold 10k units.
Depends which country and at what time of year. Also all sales for their PC centric titles might not show up in charts due to digital sales eg Rome II did 30,000 in the UK in packaged sales for the first week but factoring in digital sales pushes it to above 100,000 units. However in Japan digital sales often amount to little less than 5% of total sales.
SEGA also didn't necessarily buy ATLUS, Sammy did. It's a bold move actually, and something I commend them doing, but otherwise I don't think SEGA would have bought ATLUS with the losses they made the years before.
It is true most of the money is generated from Sammy but we know that Nagoshi pushed for the acquisition of Relic so it's not like SEGA do not have access to the money pot.
I'm happy SEGA still exists at all, but it's still a damn shame they aren't making as many games as we'd hope.
State of the industry I'm afraid. EA was producing 68 games in 2008, by 2014 they only have 14 games I believe.
I think they have been doing quite well in the charts in Japan and selling much more than 10k units on their bigger games, though Im no expert right now Aki's chart summeries always seem quite positive! And as they are regularly making an overall profit I think they must be doing something right!
SEGA's Western arm is making a killing, right now their Japanese packaged sales are hurting but the success of Phantasy Star Online 2 and their iOS games is ensuring that division is making a profit, at least for now but I'd imagine the fact they have Atlus now will only further strengthen their grip in Japan long term.
I'm excited to see what might have in the future though, last year was barren due to the effects of the restructuring but this year we have already seen their release schedule bulk up significantly. Hopefully 2014 ends on a high thanks to Alien: Isolation and Sonic Boom and sets up the platform for an excellent 2015.
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@ TimmiT: I am a contributor on the book and everything I provided was provided with primary references. Dave was open to work with people, but he always took in everything with appropriate references. As I have stated earlier we will be sharing some of the books content on the official site and we will upload all the references there.
Lastly, I am not overhyping the book, nor am I a "snake oil" sales man.
As I have stated I have only read SEGA BASE (a decade ago), I loved it then and I can't wait for my copy to arrive.
Also note that the Kickstarter ended hours after making this thread. So the option of selling the hardcover books had already expired when I posted my responses to the comments in this thread.
@ Barry: The book is published. 2 Kickstarters have successfully ended. An audio book is nearing completion and you are still complaining about the name.
You aren't even interested in the book. Why are you still dwelling on the name? Move on.
I am not trying to be rude, I like your suggestion, but the ship has sailed.
@ Aki-at: I spoke to David about your suggestion and he liked em. We have removed Rise & Fall from the T-Shirt. We also made some other chances like the Arcade Unit now has a sketch of a hedgehog that is blue in color instead of the Enhanced Edition sticker.
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@ TimmiT: I am a contributor on the book and everything I provided was provided with primary references. Dave was open to work with people, but he always took in everything with appropriate references. As I have stated earlier we will be sharing some of the books content on the official site and we will upload all the references there.
Then what about the mistakes people already noticed? I highly doubt that a book that credits SEGA America for things SEGA Europe did or makes mistakes like saying that a 3DO ad is a SEGA ad was properly fact-checked.
Lastly, I am not overhyping the book, nor am I a "snake oil" sales man.
As I have stated I have only read SEGA BASE (a decade ago), I loved it then and I can't wait for my copy to arrive.
These two sentences contradict eachother so much.
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@ Barry: The book is published. 2 Kickstarters have successfully ended. An audio book is nearing completion and you are still complaining about the name.
You aren't even interested in the book. Why are you still dwelling on the name? Move on.
I am not trying to be rude, I like your suggestion, but the ship has sailed.
You're coming off as rude though. I'm not the only one who doesn't like the book's title, as evidenced by this thread, and finalized or not I'm entitled to share my opinion. Should I move on from the errors and bad decisions made in the book as well?
Thanks for making the assumption that I am not interested in the book, but I've already said I've been reading the ebook. If I weren't interested in the book, why would I be reading it? I may not want to plunk down cash for a physical copy, given my disappointment with the ebook. Maybe that's what is bothering you? That I don't want to buy the shirt and the physical book? If that's the case, then you are coming off as more of a disgruntled salesman than somebody open to discussing the book for better or worse. Sorry to say, but at this point you won't be seeing any news posts from me urging people to buy the book. :P
Unless an enhanced enhanced edition is on the way to clean up the errors and refine the layout, I'd say pass on this. If somebody is still curious, the $8 ebook (which is what I got) is cheap enough to not feel ripped off. I can't see myself being satisfied at all if I had bought the $75+ hardcover book - it's just not worth it given the ebook and paperback are already out there. To quote a reviewer on Amazon: "at times still feels like a webpage filed together, instead of a coherent volume" - that is kind of how I feel in regards to the presentation.
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Hmm... like I said I wasn't trying to be rude so if I am coming off as rude I apologize.
When you said you had read the book a little I assumed you just read the book via the preview at Amazon, my bad. I was here to get support for the Kickstarter which I was a part off.
As for voicing your opinion, I was irritated because it felt really redundant. Almost before your post I had made a post addressing the title - yes, I wasn't directly addressing you in that post but I was talking about the title. The title was announced 3 ears ago, and this was a community project. It was announced on SEGAbits that if you have suggestions for title present them! No body said anything constructive... So the redundancy makes me come off as rude, even though I am trying to be polite about it.
Lastly, the ship for making a news post has also sailed. The only thing you could do at this point is maybe write a review but unless you have something to say that hasn't been said, what would be the point?
As for enhanced enhanced - that will never happen and if it does I won't be involved. I worked hard on this book and a few things could be better but there will always be room for improvement on any project. George has made some suggestions via skype and at first we just joked about it but then I started to discuss it with David and maybe we might start writing something new. It would be SEGA related but it would be something new and exciting.
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I think it looks pretty cool, might go for an Ebook. Congrats on getting the Hardcovers to look that good. Who manufactured them for you? I used to work for a Manufacturer here in the States, so yeah i know a thing or two about the printing industry.
And quite honestly, i don't mind the title very much. "The Rise and Fall" if you're a legit Sega fan, you'll get the reference pretty easily.
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We went to Create Space for both books.
If you are thinking of buying the eBook I suggest buying the story bundle.
www.storybundle.com
More value for your money ;)
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The strange thing is outside of entertainment, Japan in general is still a massive global leader in several markets. Audio-Technica, Wacom, Honda etc are all top quality companies. I suppose the difference is Japan's other industry have adapted to ensure their products have a global appeal, whilst their entertainment products are designed first at being suitable for the Japanese marketplace and then the world.
It does sure seem that way, although it's surprising how Sony's lost most of their marketshare to Samsung within a few years.
Actually majority of SEGA's software sales come from Europe and America. Whilst it's true they get a bigger share of the revenue in Japan, the fact that they have 4 multi-million sellings IPs (And own the license to 2 more) means their Western core gaming sales outpace their Japanese ones. It really is smartphone gaming that is giving SEGA their bulk of their money in Japan, simply because it is the biggest part of the market.
Indeed, I read somewhere that the younger generation don't get enough money in wages like us or Americans so their entertainment is coming from the Mobile Segment? it wouldn't surprise me that they shifted to that platform due to those problems.
Fan fact, the team that developed Sonic Unleashed was mostly made of new employees. Really what they need is good producers, something they have been seriously lacking. Iizuka is okay to good but often seems out of his depth. He has done well steadying the ship but that's about it I believe, they need a better producer taking care of the Sonic franchise.
Ah I see! Then the producers are the problem then, or a lack of leadership or maybe perhaps a lack of higher subordinates. Either way, you'd think that SEGA could highlight those that show potential like they did in the 90s.
Depends which country and at what time of year. Also all sales for their PC centric titles might not show up in charts due to digital sales eg Rome II did 30,000 in the UK in packaged sales for the first week but factoring in digital sales pushes it to above 100,000 units. However in Japan digital sales often amount to little less than 5% of total sales.
Also true, but I can't help but think that SEGA's rep has been tarnished with the gamers (at least those in the know). General customers are happy to buy a game that just happens to have SEGA on it, but for the gaming audience...they tend to waver.
It is true most of the money is generated from Sammy but we know that Nagoshi pushed for the acquisition of Relic so it's not like SEGA do not have access to the money pot.
Another interesting point. I wonder if he's looking into other studios at this point?
State of the industry I'm afraid. EA was producing 68 games in 2008, by 2014 they only have 14 games I believe.
And that is why I am losing the interest to game. So many things are making it more in line with the Movie/Music Industries which happened to have the same effects on the dedicated fanbases as well.
SEGA's Western arm is making a killing, right now their Japanese packaged sales are hurting but the success of Phantasy Star Online 2 and their iOS games is ensuring that division is making a profit, at least for now but I'd imagine the fact they have Atlus now will only further strengthen their grip in Japan long term.
You'd think that SEGA West would invest some of the money into SEGA Japan's efforts like what's going on over at Japan Studio (Sony), but it doesn't seem to look that way.
I think they have been doing quite well in the charts in Japan and selling much more than 10k units on their bigger games, though Im no expert right now Aki's chart summeries always seem quite positive! And as they are regularly making an overall profit I think they must be doing something right!
I'm not saying they are number 1 on Steam, but they have more games up there than most western publishers and by far more than any other Japanese publisher. Which is a very good thing for me as I'm really not interested in Games Consoles at the moment.
The arcade industry is dying, that is for sure but I'm happy that Sega can still make a profit from it and really are the last big publisher keeping it afloat. I think if Sega dropped Arcades suddenly it would leave a huge hole.
I don't really see much difference between Sega and Sammy at this point, it was a merge the money pot is held by a joined company. But it was definitely Sega which bid for and bought Atlus, regardless of who's money they were using.
I understand that SEGA's in a much better position than most Companies in Japan (even Ninty and Sony), but I don't see how they're going to expand their existing sales/fanbase in the near future.
I could be wrong of course! (I hope I am as I'm a SEGA fan!)
I agree with SEGA dropping the market would indeed be a great loss, since they're the big ones in that market. However, they need to try and get some of those games onto home consoles in the west if they're reluctant to release the arcade cabinets. I am sure that SEGA Vintage Collection would help them once more.
Overall, the profits make for good reading, and I trust that Aki knows this much more than we do. I just have little concerns over some of their markets.
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And quite honestly, i don't mind the title very much. "The Rise and Fall" if you're a legit Sega fan, you'll get the reference pretty easily.
Whatever. I was a "legit" Sega fan before they ever released any home consoles. Obviously we all have different perspectives and interpretations and opinions about Sega, past and present. If the folks behind the book wanted it to have broad support and appeal then they shouldn't have chosen a subtitle that sounds like something an NES fanatic would come up with. And it wasn't the duty of the people who expressed dissatisfaction about it to come up with a better one. So they have a book with an appeal to only a certain slice of the overall Sega fanbase, hopefully that's enough to make the project successful for them.
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Whatever. I was a "legit" Sega fan before they ever released any home consoles. Obviously we all have different perspectives and interpretations and opinions about Sega, past and present. If the folks behind the book wanted it to have broad support and appeal then they shouldn't have chosen a subtitle that sounds like something an NES fanatic would come up with. And it wasn't the duty of the people who expressed dissatisfaction about it to come up with a better one. So they have a book with an appeal to only a certain slice of the overall Sega fanbase, hopefully that's enough to make the project successful for them.
If you want a good SEGA book, I suggest Console Wars: http://www.amazon.com/Console-Wars-Nintendo-Defined-Generation/dp/0062276697/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398197244&sr=8-1&keywords=console+wars
I'm 300 pages into it (publisher sent SEGAbits a review copy) and it is pretty fair and unbiased. I mean, it just tells things like they are from the SEGA perspective. Nintendo isn't an enemy, they're just competition. Check it out for sure.
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If you want a good SEGA book, I suggest Console Wars: http://www.amazon.com/Console-Wars-Nintendo-Defined-Generation/dp/0062276697/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398197244&sr=8-1&keywords=console+wars
I'm 300 pages into it (publisher sent SEGAbits a review copy) and it is pretty fair and unbiased. I mean, it just tells things like they are from the SEGA perspective. Nintendo isn't an enemy, they're just competition. Check it out for sure.
I've heard about this book as well, i've been really interested in buying it. This is the book they want to create a film adaptation as well, no?
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I've heard about this book as well, i've been really interested in buying it. This is the book they want to create a film adaptation as well, no?
Yup! That's the one. It follows Tom Kalinske though his time at SEGA, and gives historical asides in chapters covering companies that SEGA worked with or worked against like EA and Nintendo. Really well written and not like a history book at all. It's much more of a story in the way it is presented.
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Whoa, Console Wars will be a movie about the 16bit era told from a Sega Perspective???
Pretty awesome. Welcome change from tired, omnipresent, Nintendo/Sony perspective nearly all game media seems to report from these days.
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Yup, and TBH Nintendo comes off as smug and setting themselves up for failure (their Wii U practices anybody?) while Sony is more interested in expanding into new markets. Not really getting the vibe that they have a passion for games like SEGA does.
Anyway, it's refreshing to see SEGA getting the focus. As SEGA fans we all know why the company was so damn cool in the 90's and it's great to see somebody who gets it putting it front and center in a book.
Really, if it was all from the Nintendo perspective it would be all about them pushing strict rules on third party devs and testing the limits of legal business practices. Hardly fun reading if that were the case.
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Sega were very much the underdogs going into the 16-bit era. The way in which they managed to compete against a firmly entrenched rival like Nintendo makes for a good story. Telling the story from any other perspective just wouldn't be as interesting.
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Personally I can't wait to read Console Wars but I have more than a few books in cue already.
Just bumping this thread to show off my name on the book :P
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/10479145_10152532280687464_3179767577240481306_n.jpg)
We are also in early stages of talking about a sequel. something very different from the original and Console Wars.
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What fall of Sega? They still exist, they're profitable, they top the sales charts regularly, they have games on every platform and are one of the leading Japanese PC developers and Steam supporters making it easier to play their classics than ever before, still dominate in the Arcade industry and just baught Atlus... Alien Isolation was voted the best game at Rezzed...
I get that some people want more high budget titles from Sega Japan but otherwise I see Sega as pretty damn on the ball right now.
That's the reason i not gonna buy this book. Most western fans like to concentrate on Sega as a company in the states . The reality is Sega had an affect on different markets which had different results.
What happened with Sega in europe and the UK? Why was that period the most important for Sega as a company in the west? And why did it help pave the way for what eventually exploded Sega in the states? Betcha don't even remotely cover that in ANY detail.Also the title is stupid, If the book just concentrated on their hardware days, fair enough but i suspect it doesn't so the title is stupid.
Also i'm not interested in info after the fact either.I dont care the opinions of people who were too young to actuallu understand what was going on at the time and then they grow up and decide what their game company is and get into the history but not REALLY understanding the history. Some games forgotten now were big games back then. Also you gotta be partial and cover the whole thing. Its like watching WCW the rise and fall and realizing its the fucking WWE's spin on things and not the exact truth. Kalinske is a great leader for Sega but he's going to put his view on things and his own spin on certain situations. Unless you the side of Rosen (THE founder OF SEGA, NOT THE GUY FROM hAWAII who just happened to have the name that the merged companies used..god they giving that con man a credit as a founder LOL!!)and also Hayao Nakayama the guy who was the first president of what we now or use to call Sega japan and oversaw Sega's glory years on arcade and console.
Another thing...This travesty of a book is not the FIRST Sega history book(since its obvious you lot obviously edit the erronous wiki Sega page). There have been Sega history books for years in japan courtesy of Sega Japan and Enterbrain among others.
Couldn't agree with you more. There seems to be a lot of people who equate Sega solely as the Home Console Manufacturer. If anything they should be regarded as an entertainment brand as I can't think of any branch of entertainment that they are not involved in in some capacity.
That's why the common comment of "CompanyX should just buy out Sega already" is just annoying. No understanding of how far their reach actually is.
Yes the moment the japanese took control of Sega that's exactly what they were doing. Consoles in the early eighties were seen as extensions of the toy market..which Sega was also making. You can see the early adverts from japan to see that. If anything the story of sega since the eighties is chasing this dream to become a bonafide entertainment company...by trying and failing to become a rival to Bandai during the eighties...Trying to merge with Bandai which failed in the nineties...then going and building their own susidaries to the point where they actually become the big entertainment company they wanted to be..and then get brought out by a company they didn't want to merge with and becoming the rival and ironically bigger entertainment japan company to bandai..in the noughties. Its always a story of irony with Sega.
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Whoa, Console Wars will be a movie about the 16bit era told from a Sega Perspective???
Pretty awesome. Welcome change from tired, omnipresent, Nintendo/Sony perspective nearly all game media seems to report from these days.
Not suprised. American movie makers like stories about americans..especially if they are the under dogs. Sega does has american connections via Rosen the original founder of Sega as well as the name dating back to the 40s in Hawaii. So its easy to understand that they can use that story and tell it because Sega as a company has american roots and Kalinske is the american gaijin in a japanese dominated world at that time. So its easy to paint nintendo or any foreigner as the big bad guy and the american as the heoric good guy fighting the fight and winning in the end. Remember Sega japan are going to be basically villians in all this as well. I'd be very suprised if Nintendo lets this film use any of their imagery trademarks and names.