SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Sharky on June 25, 2014, 12:53:39 pm
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No, I know, it's not like it's a hard accomplishment, but the game is brilliant in my opinion.
Sonic Generations does so much right, I've loved the modern sonic switching between 2D and 3D mechanic since it was introduced, and I think that is the way forward for the series and caters for fans of both 2D and 3D Sonic well enough. I think there is a good mix of action platforming and erm, running! And most of the level designs are good with multiple paths and cool set pieces!
I also liked the way you could 'equip' Sonic with various abilities of your own choice to make him play how you wanted... That was a nice touch!
On top of that the game on PC, 60fps with max settings is absolutely beautiful and the sense of speed is something else. And the modding community has given the game some serious legs if you are into mods and hacks... Which I am not really but I've seen some great stuff on youtube.
Obviously the game was lacking in some areas, boss battles were a hit and miss and the final battle was absolute shite... Pretty sure it was rushed for whatever reason and just straight up sucks compared to the final boss of Sonic Colours which I thought was really awesome.
Sonic Lost World was a big step back and Sonic Boom looks like they took everything they had learned from making a good Sonic game over the past 10 years, smeared shit across it... And done the complete opposite.I really hope Sonic Team are cooking something up worth playing again. Before Generations I had not baught a Sonic game since Sonic Adventure 2 Battle for Gamecube and I want to play more Sonic... Good Sonic.
Agree/disagree?
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I'm usually the only one but I liked Heroes and the GBA/DS games so I never agree with those who say best game since the early 90s.
That said, Generations I think is the best 3D Sonic and one of the better platformers lately. Some of the level choices (too many city levels) aside, they remade the zones very well for each gameplay style. Sonic Team really has learned from this formula as much as gamers never want to praise them.
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No, Sonic 3 & Knuckles is. :V
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Yeah, I have to agree that Sonic 3 & Knuckles is above Generations is my book, but I agree with you that Gens is the best game since then.
I liked Lost World. It has some structural mario-like annoyances (repeated stage music for one), but I liked the play style so I wouldn't call it a big step back. I'm also completely comfortable with lumping Sonic Boom with games like Sonic R as not true Sonic games since they are not made by Sonic Team, so I can't agree with you fully on those two.
However, if I could choose, I would definitely continue the Generations line with a new game featuring more recreated Genesis stages. Those were easily the best part of Generations to me.
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I can't really give an opinion on Generations. I get nauseous while playing the 2D segments and have to switch it off.
I liked Lost World. It has some structural mario-like annoyances (repeated stage music for one), but I liked the play style so I wouldn't call it a big step back. I'm also completely comfortable with lumping Sonic Boom with games like Sonic R as not true Sonic games since they are not made by Sonic Team, so I can't agree with you fully on those two.
It may not be billed as a Sonic Team game, but Sonic R was pretty much their creation. Game design, artwork, level planning... It was all them. Traveller's Tales only programmed it.
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No, Sonic 3 & Knuckles is. :V
Thread over.
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I disagree... Sonic Generations on PC, with all of the community modding is just so full of content. I think at this point they have modded all the levels from all the previous 3D Sonic games in...
I mean look, here is Sweet Mountain from Sonic Colours in 1080P on PC modded into Generations:
http://youtu.be/O3NBdSnESsU?t=22s
Here is Sonic Generations where Sonic is replaced with a real hedgehog:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TnQVJWi1T4
Here is a brand new level based on 'Mystic Ruins' from Sonic Adventure:
http://youtu.be/Yg2Lx19AAcs?t=1m38s
The shit is endless!
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I don't think I own this game on PC yet, I did play it on 360, but only very briefly. I remember not really getting into it though. I should give it another shot if I see it on sale on Steam.
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The game is amazing and one of the best Sonic games . Sonic Team are one of the few Teams left in SEGA that seem to have plans and know what they're doing and decent tech .
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Sonic Generaitions is really just a bunch of stages, and levels with the memory of Sonic attached. I wish I could say it is the best but it is really not so hot, in my opinion. Yes a giant memorial. If you want to say a game that did something original, then I say the GBA games or at least Shadow, and with Shadow their is mixed reviews on that.
I like the tightness of gameplay with Sonic games, and the big screen display, not Widescreen. Here is a quesiton, CAN YOU SWITCH VIEWS IN THIS SONIC GAME?? Like in "Perfect Dark" the game supports theater surround sound, as well as wide and normal TV display. I wish more games would take advantage of such features, instead of shoving the widescreen down our throats. So much unneeded room.
The only good thing about Generations is the modding, and that is not really something to hurray about.
Thread over.
I second that. Just that one scene with Super Sonic ( knuckles knock his block his off ), is enough to make the game biblical. However when we talk about just Sonic, then Sonic CD was the best game of all time, in terms of Sonic. It had huge worlds, the whole time travel, Rob-Sonic stomping on animals bit, including Madonna Sonic ( Sally/Amy ) was used in this game alone. If not then a fan creation.
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Ryan if you're going to argue with the mods as a plus point surely then Sonic rom hacks counter that point? :p
Anyway thought the game was solid. A good entry but nothing less or more, still had too many issues to be a truly excellent game but gave me hope for the future of the series until Sonic Team dashed my expectations with Sonic Lost World. But the good will built has made me curious what their next game might be like.
I don't think I own this game on PC yet, I did play it on 360, but only very briefly. I remember not really getting into it though. I should give it another shot if I see it on sale on Steam.
How far did you get Mang? Game manages to pick up around Sky Sanctuary Zone.
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RegalSin, I can tell that we are never, ever going to share an opinion...
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We are looking from different view points of the same spectrum.
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How far did you get Mang? Game manages to pick up around Sky Sanctuary Zone.
Literally got about two levels in from memory. I was lucky to get that far after 'SAWNICK YOU WAN SUM CHILLI DOG- OH LOOK A GIANT FUCKING TIME MONSTER'.
Thankfully as I went to throw the console out the window, I tripped over the controller cord and hit my head. I woke up twenty minutes later and was at the title screen, so I gave it a shot. I think I only played about two levels and felt that it was 'okay, kinda like Sonic Unleashed without the Werehog bits' and then promptly forgot about it.
It's 50% off on the steam sale at the moment. if it goes Daily/Flash deal I might bite.
RegalSin, I can tell that we are never, ever going to share an opinion...
RegalSin is like an amalgamation of Cube and East of Eastside.
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Literally got about two levels in from memory. I was lucky to get that far after 'SAWNICK YOU WAN SUM CHILLI DOG- OH LOOK A GIANT FUCKING TIME MONSTER'.
Thankfully as I went to throw the console out the window, I tripped over the controller cord and hit my head. I woke up twenty minutes later and was at the title screen, so I gave it a shot. I think I only played about two levels and felt that it was 'okay, kinda like Sonic Unleashed without the Werehog bits' and then promptly forgot about it.
It's 50% off on the steam sale at the moment. if it goes Daily/Flash deal I might bite.
It's pretty much Sonic Unleashed but with refined level design, at least modern Sonic is. Classic Sonic has a lot of good to great moments but the missions you have to play to unlock other levels can get on your nerves.
Overall its a nice solid game with some issues (Like the final boss drags the entire game down which is quite an achievement! and highly disappointed with how pants Chemical Plant Zone was sadly) but it does enough to try and pull on those nostalgia heart strings and competent level designs to give you an enjoyable ride.
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Agree/disagree?
Great time to make this topic given that I played plenty of Generations a few days ago for a certain someone's birthday.
I like Generations. It's a fun game that has a high degree of polish and accessibility. It's clearly made with a lot of love and by all accounts was a big success.
I just recently played a few hours of Generations back to back with Lost World and I have to say that my experience was a bit startling. Generations felt stiff and linear in a way that I don't remember being so frustrating. At one point in modern Rooftop Run (my favorite level by far) I missed a life and back tracked to pick it up. What followed was an immensely irritating exercise in battling the controls to do something as simple as picking up an item I'd missed. Sonic simply isn't designed to function at low speeds in the game. At all. Not only that but between the modern and classic sonic levels, your jump is only just high enough to clear most platforms, making those sequences incredibly stiff and hard to navigate. The result is that you simply want to spend as much time in the game boosting and homing attacking as possible. As a platformer, it is a complete failure. And platforming should be as important to the character as speed in my opinion. In addition, the levels were hard to get into. The loading times are long and switching between classic and modern sonic in the hub menu is a chore. Sonic games dearly need something like the Egg Shuttle from Colors. A mode where I can just play all the levels unmolested and uninterrupted just like the classics.
After playing my favorite modern and classic zones in Generations, I popped LW in and was blown away by how fluid and free the movement was by comparison. Picking up a missed item or some rings wasn't only incredibly possible now, but was actually fun. The jump as well delivered enough height to easily clear most platforms, making launching yourself from ledges and platforms an actual option for reaching certain areas. It's such a shame that the majority of the levels simply don't support this freedom of movement. I can count only about 3 that do; but man are they fun.
This coming from a guy who only days ago considered Generations to be vastly superior to LW. I don't think any Sonic game has nailed it. Each has pieces of something great, but always manages to trip on the finish line, Generations included.
To answer your question more directly, the best Sonic game since Sonic 3&K is without a doubt Colors. There's a sense of playfulness in the level design and an encouragement of exploration not seen since the Megadrive games. It's more thematically cohesive than Generations, has a better story, and better designed levels. It's dripping with a sense of fun and creative freedom not felt from the franchise in a decade and a half.
I'm really hopeful that Sonic Team's next game has the same flavor. Also here's a birthday drawing I did:
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/4eb84e8ceb493d98bc723040b747556b/tumblr_n7n901DIZN1sm496io1_500.png)
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It was alright. I speedrunned it to death on PC. After that I never went back to replay it. I think i'm just done with its "tricks". The best thing it does is making things look great while the gameplay just isn't too special. While the other things like platforming exist mostly of simple jumps and homing attacks. This is why I liked sonic lost worlds so much initially. It does a lot more interesting things, held back however by bad controls so overall i'm just not very excited anymore. I feel like sonic is in bad hands at the moment. Have no faith in any sonic game in the future, but yeah like I say everytime before a new sonic game, who knows this time they've seen the light (lol). The sonic cycle is real :(
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I don't think any Sonic game has nailed it. Each has pieces of something great, but always manages to trip on the finish line, Generations included.
Can totally agree with this and I agree that Sonic Team really need to work on their 'slow game' mechanics... I'm not at all fussed about Sonic Lost World, I hate the cylinder level designs and compared to Colours it's nowhere near as good, level design wise. But it does seem to get the 'slow game' down really well.
I loved Sonic Colours too, in fact if they could take the best of Sonic Colours, Generations and the slow controls of Sonic in Lost World I think they could really nail it...
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Mind if I tweet that image radrappy? Ill credit you. Looks great!
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Mind if I tweet that image radrappy? Ill credit you. Looks great!
Of course! If you want to tweet it to my tumblr, feel free
radrappy.tumblr.com
I just started it and don't have many followers. Also let me know if you guys ever want more artwork.
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Awesome! And yeah, we'll let you know. It would be fun to have something Opa Opa related, but I'd have to ask George what we need.
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Oh wait, now I remember why I ignored this game, it was Sonic Teams retarded as fuck way of choosing levels!
Instead of saying 'what's everyone's favourite levels' and choosing a few favourites and ignoring the shit games, they just went 'ONE LEVEL FROM EVERY GAME', which annoyed me so much I kind of didn't want to play the game on principal (kind of like SARS and it's sequel).
I'm an angry curmudgeon sometimes. Well, probably most of the time.
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Suprised that no one has made a Opa Opa or Alex Kidd mod for the PC version yet. I willing to donate the 3D models I have from SEGA titles for PS2 on my computer.
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Oh wait, now I remember why I ignored this game, it was Sonic Teams retarded as fuck way of choosing levels!
Instead of saying 'what's everyone's favourite levels' and choosing a few favourites and ignoring the shit games, they just went 'ONE LEVEL FROM EVERY GAME', which annoyed me so much I kind of didn't want to play the game on principal (kind of like SARS and it's sequel).
I'm an angry curmudgeon sometimes. Well, probably most of the time.
I'm in absolute agreement about this. The level selection in generations is bunk. There was no reason in hell they needed a level from every main series entry game. I would have appreciated a sonic 3 level as opposed to being reminded of crisis city again. They should have celebrated the franchise's best levels without having to settle for some kind of equal representation bull shit.
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It's especially bad when we remember there are now more bad sonic games than good in existence, so by default that makes the level selection mostly from the bad games.
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You know is 20th anniversary title and not "homage to the classics" title? Wait to the 2016 for the 25th-oh what i'm saying? :X
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Instead of saying 'what's everyone's favourite levels' and choosing a few favourites and ignoring the shit games, they just went 'ONE LEVEL FROM EVERY GAME', which annoyed me so much I kind of didn't want to play the game on principal (kind of like SARS and it's sequel).
They actually went with everyone's favourite level from each game. Now I don't think this is a bad idea in itself picking a stage from each game (The Sonic 06 level is actually okay, amazing I know) my biggest problem was that they not only stuck with a chronological order (A dumb decision) but also hindered the variarty of the levels.
So we have a second to last level being one of the earliest stages and two mid level levels being the final two stages. This makes no sense considering the level they're based on and to make matters worse we have 5 city levels! FIVE OF THEM!
So that's two massive issues against them. Then of course skipping on Sonic the Hedgehog 3 means that classic Sonic's portion of the game is only 3 levels and 2 bosses! Who thought that would be a good idea?
I think the shame is that Sonic Team did have a solid game in place but it's clear with Sonic Lost World they just do not know how to move forward. Their insular nature towards criticism against their games and ideas is also a big hindrance as I can't imagine people from SEGA Europe/America going WHY DONT YOU INCLUDE CRISIS CITY IIZUKA-SAMA?!
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iizuka-sama only wants the best for Sonic
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/q71/s720x720/10402913_689991241036290_285469599375252179_n.jpg)
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Yeah I kinda don't like that too many of the iconic levels or at least the ones chosen in Generations are grassy levels, beach levels, or city levels. I get that they're easily accessible but it made for a same-y Generations roster. It was especially noticeable in Generations. It would've been better if they de-emphasized the city aspect of Chemical Plant Zone.
Anyway I played Generations on 360 but I mostly enjoyed it, minus a couple of gripes (unexpected length of Planet Wisp, lame final boss.) Some nice challenges.
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I don't think any Sonic game has nailed it.
Tbh I think Sonic Adv nailed it - It was just let down by some small gltiches on the graphics side . To me its one of the best platform games I've ever played still to this day and the perfect sonic game .
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Agreed. If they kept using sonic adventure as a basis and kept refining and building on that, it would have been great. All that would be nescesary was to not include redundant characters(if they couldnt build interesting and good gameplay around them). FYI I don't consider sonic adventure 2 to be that game.
Sonic lost worlds for all the freedom it gives, just screams for the controls of the first sonic adventure. Sonic lost worlds would have been such a better game.
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I can say that all the work done in Lost World ,at least in the control and the gameplay mechanics, will be use in the next Sonic Game (not Boom obviously, although that game is trying to make different playable characters worthy and also the same characters will have more spotlight than before. It's intentional) .
I have a strong confidence about that because that happened before with Unleashed/Colors/Generations.
Mr.Iizuka has the last word. Remember that he was the director for both Adventure games and Heroes. Even with all the changes, these games all are similar in many ways.
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I can say that all the work done in Lost World ,at least in the control and the gameplay mechanics, will be use in the next Sonic Game (not Boom obviously, although that game is trying to make different playable characters worthy and also the same characters will have more spotlight than before. It's intentional) .
I have a strong confidence about that because that happened before with Unleashed/Colors/Generations.
Mr.Iizuka has the last word. Remember that he was the director for both Adventure games and Heroes. Even with all the changes, these games all are similar in many ways.
I have considerably less faith in Iizuka. Just look at the games he went on to direct following Sa1:
Sa2
Heroes
Shadow
Nights Journey of Dreams
that's a pretty awful track record.
The thing about Sa1 is that it has aged just terribly. It's got spazzy, jerky controls and levels that are chalk full of awkward collision detection problems. I adored the game when it came out but you couldn't force me to play it today. The fact that I can't recommend Sa1 to a non-fan without a number of caveats is demonstration enough to me that we need to start looking elsewhere for an example of Sonic done properly in a 3d space.
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Sonic Boom proves that Sonic games should be left to the professionals, just as Iizuka has said
Eurogamer: LittleBigPlanet is a platformer that allows players to create levels and customise characters. Any plans for similar features in future Sonic games?
Takashi Iizuka: It's something the team is not looking into at the moment. Sonic games, it's pretty clear that how good the level design is directly affects the quality of the game.
The team believes the speed and the tempo is crucial. Sonic Team are the professionals at doing it. It's hard to leave it up to the users because it's quite difficult.
We have, however, allowed this feature through PlaySEGA, which allows our users to create their own levels. But in terms of future Sonic games, this is not in the plan.
see this new and improved G.U.N. truck? work of professionals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3gRHlJS478 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3gRHlJS478)
That kind of improvement scares people. I know if i hadn't of had it spoiled to me I would of been like "WTF Ahhh!!!" when it took out the saw blades xD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpMCjCEqJQw
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I gotta admit, GUN trick driving on the side of the building was one of the biggest "OH MY GOOOOOOD" moments of the series in recent memories.
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yes but the sequence plays itself. Imagine how much money and time went in to what essentially amounts to a cutscene. I was thinking yesterday how completely messed up these games' budgets must be. In SLW there's an entire 2 player mode that obviously had a lot of effort put into it (the presentation is great) and there was a lot of time spent on the 1.5 player mode gadgets. Neither really amount to anything though apart from being bullet points for the back of the box. Imagine if that time/money had been invested in, I don't know, better level design?
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I have considerably less faith in Iizuka. Just look at the games he went on to direct following Sa1:
Sa2
Heroes
Shadow
Nights Journey of Dreams
that's a pretty awful track record.
Yes...as a director. As a producer, we have:
Sonic 4: Episode I
Sonic Colors
Sonic Generations
Sonic 4: Episode II
Sonic Lost World
This is not the best track record, but certainly is one of the most solid.
Yes, Adventure 1 has aged very bad but it's not the only one game of that era that doesn't aged well.
Rememeber OoT and the 20 FPS? M64 and the problem with the textures and the inertia? and all the ghosting/draw distance in many 3D N64/PSX/Saturn Games?
Imagine if that time/money had been invested in, I don't know, better level design?
Are you really play City Escape Act 2 in Generations from beginning to the end? I can find many, many routes to reach to that point with the truck and all.
Seriously, that's a level design that is pushing forward replay the levels. You know..some of the most important aspect in the classic sonic games.
All the multiplayer stuff in SLW was maded because they needed to make something for the Nintendo Strategy of multiplayer gaming: not online only, in the couch with your friends. And also, they wanted to do something for multiplayer for the next sonic games. It's really obvious what are they doing that.
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Level design is not the problem
Sonic Adventure has Aged extremly well: SEGA just makes poor ports of the Dreamcast original
Ocarina Of Time has aged very well. I could play that game a billion more times, compared to SA1.
The GUN truck........basically SA2, version of the Whale. I mean yeah that was nice.
The problem is originalism with respect to the original fan base. Meaning the game has to be unique, replayable, and enjoyable like the fun game, without over doing it. Reason why SG is nice, is because of the designs, and that memories that accompany the gameplay.....uptil the time boss.
I wish SEGA could just bring back ground, scratch, Sally, and even the stupid characters from other toons, as well as the videogame world. Even so, they will not even be able to execute it. Some Sonic fans are thinking in terms of the videogames, other Sonic fans are thinking about the comics, and the noobie fans, are thinking in terms of the GBA games. It is just so silly, because this could go on forever.
In another ten or twenty years, SEGA will release, SONIC GENERATIONS II, and will have all the stuff we found wrong, being released as greatness.
Yeah SONIC, made lots of money for SEGA as with Mario did for Nintendo. It was great times, I will admit, and I could and would rather go to my game system, and play some Sonic right now, I mean it. I could play the original games, including the auwsome extra long Sega CD game. I could play the SEGA Dreamcast SA1 a couple of times, and Shadow is great.
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I think judging any game on fan modification is not a great way of stacking games. That is saying, Sonic Generations might be a better experience due to mods, but suggesting its the best since Sonic 2 because of fan made mods is not really fair. I think we should judge a game base on what you bought and what Sonic Team developed.
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Sonic CD says hello.
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Sonic CD says hello.
Eh.
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Eh.
:-\ I think it's the best Sonic game to date, only reason it doesn't get mentioned is next to no one has played the freak'n thing.
Same great platforming and all the speed of the originals and then some. Tons of exploration, various versions of each zone and not one but two awesome soundtracks. Not to mention the debut of Metal Sonic and Amy Rose.
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I have considerably less faith in Iizuka. Just look at the games he went on to direct following Sa1:
Sa2
Heroes
Shadow
Nights Journey of Dreams
that's a pretty awful track record.
The thing about Sa1 is that it has aged just terribly. It's got spazzy, jerky controls and levels that are chalk full of awkward collision detection problems. I adored the game when it came out but you couldn't force me to play it today. The fact that I can't recommend Sa1 to a non-fan without a number of caveats is demonstration enough to me that we need to start looking elsewhere for an example of Sonic done properly in a 3d space.
Despite me enjoying sa1 the most, yes it aged horribly. It would have still been a great basis to build upon. Moreso than any other. I wonder why sonicteam has never done that with previous codes. Sa2 while polished, always felt like a step back control wise. A bit heavier?
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You'd think with a huge resurrection of 2D games like Rayman, Donkey Kong Country, New Super Mario Bros, Kirby, that new Yoshi game all going to retail for 60 dollars and selling well that SEGA would figure that making a super tight 3D model platformer using Genesis like physics with interesting overworld map would be a no brainer.
Hey, but what do I know. Its not like Sonic Retro, which mostly covers retro Sonic game is one of the biggest Sonic websites online or anything... oh wait.
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Did Sonic 4 underperform SEGA's expectations for it or something?
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Sonic 4? What sonic 4?
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I thought Episode 2 was fun. Episode 1 was alright, but I enjoyed Episode 2 personally.
Both games got destroyed by the press though, unless your IGN "Sonic's back, baby! (http://blogs.sega.com/2010/10/11/sonic-is-back-baby-sonic-4-launches-this-week-on-consoles/)"
iizuka doesn't seem to be very fond of anything that resembles a classic Sonic game though. So probably won't be getting one outside of Mobile Phone ports anytime soon. Which is too bad, i'd like to play the Taxman ports on consoles.
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It's just weird, and I guess good at the same time, that it just feels like they never really mattered. Really personally I just wish to forget about them completely.
I agree with george though. 2d games are being brought back full force in retail quality on nintendo platforms at least. After experiencing games like tropical freeze it'd be great to see sonic get that treatment as well. Considering the smaller budget and sonic working best in 2D.. and if they were capable, it'd be great to see the outcome. Sonic generations 2d gameplay just didnt do it for me personally. Despite preferring classic gameplay, I replayed modern sonic more often
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It's just weird, and I guess good at the same time, that it just feels like they never really mattered. Really personally I just wish to forget about them completely.
I agree with george though. 2d games are being brought back full force in retail quality on nintendo platforms at least. After experiencing games like tropical freeze it'd be great to see sonic get that treatment as well. Considering the smaller budget and sonic working best in 2D.. and if they were capable, it'd be great to see the outcome. Sonic generations 2d gameplay just didnt do it for me personally. Despite preferring classic gameplay, I replayed modern sonic more often
That's because classic sonic in Generations is straight up awful. The only thing they got right was his design and the sound effects.