SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Nirmugen on September 25, 2014, 08:50:06 pm
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Well, that was a surprise:
http://sega-net.com/release/140925_6964.html (http://sega-net.com/release/140925_6964.html)
Sega Networks, Fuji TV and a company named Goopa are working together to launch a crowdfunding business named "Crowdrive (http://www.crowdrive.com/)" that will begin operation in late October.
It will focus on funding Anime stuff from the beginning but they will launch a service for videogames in May next year.
Probably, the full funded anime could be transmitted in some program of Fuji TV and the games could be co-published by Sega.
That's a good move for the future and reveals the "all digital" plan that Sega is planning to make. Seems like Sega could potentially become more powerful that before. Keep the eye open for more news. Anyway, what is your opinion about this?
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Not sure I feel comfortable with the idea of some corps setting up a Crowdfunding platform.
I need to know how the IP rights work in this case. If Projects are successfully funded, then in Sega's case, they should be doing nothing more than Q&A and distribution. If Sega even tries to claim ownership of the IP, I don't see this taking off at all.
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Sega has distribution contracts with many independent japanese developers and also distributes some Codemasters and EA games in Japan.
I think there will be no problems with the IPs.
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EA and Codemasters are fairly large companies with lawyers, trademarks, existing IP ect...
Something that almost no crowdfunding project can claim. If Sega just distributes the game after funding as has been done for several kickstarters(Wasteland 2 and Deep silver) then there isn't much to worry about.
What I have to be convinced about is if Sega is just using this to farm new IP that they may try to eventually lock up without the initial investment.
Not 100% saying they will, but it never hurts to ask.
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Sega has distribution contracts with many independent japanese developers and also distributes some Codemasters and EA games in Japan.
I think there will be no problems with the IPs.
There won't be a problem with IPs. Many people fund properties that some one else or a company owns all the time. There is no different here. The difference is instead of asking the banks or shareholders for money, they are asking the fans. But in order to work it will most likely have to be projects that are already established.
Their current business model is minimal costs in order to get big returns. We have seen it with Sega passing the funding to Nintendo for BAY2, Sega making mobile games for next to nothing and getting huge returns...Medium budget games for release on handhelds etc etc. They're trying to make a game with as little costs to them as possible...which may not be a great thing in the long run. The question is on the video game side is whether certain titles that fans want made like SHENMUE will become part of the scheme or not. The fact that they're employing this route will bring out the SHENMUE brigade out anyway.
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This is kind of interesting, I wonder how the rewards etc will work to entice fans to invest?
The idea of a big company doing something like this is really interesting as it gives an avenue to publish those titles that they usually wouldn't touch due due to risk. As Joe mentioned, the first thing I thought of was Shenmue 3, if they could get fans to put up the money in advance, Sega already owns the rights to the game it could potentially work? Even if the game bombs, if a majority of the funding came from crowd funding it wouldn't be as big a risk to Sega.
I wonder if people will get behind the idea of funding for a corporation who can clearly fund their own games though? There was already a back-lash for Shaq Fu 2 because "SHAQ IS RICH, HE CAN PAY FOR THIS ON HIS OWN".
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This is kind of interesting, I wonder how the rewards etc will work to entice fans to invest?
The idea of a big company doing something like this is really interesting as it gives an avenue to publish those titles that they usually wouldn't touch due due to risk. As Joe mentioned, the first thing I thought of was Shenmue 3, if they could get fans to put up the money in advance, Sega already owns the rights to the game it could potentially work? Even if the game bombs, if a majority of the funding came from crowd funding it wouldn't be as big a risk to Sega.
I wonder if people will get behind the idea of funding for a corporation who can clearly fund their own games though? There was already a back-lash for Shaq Fu 2 because "SHAQ IS RICH, HE CAN PAY FOR THIS ON HIS OWN".
The only way SHENMUE 3 can work is if Suzuki is involved and that his company is the one taking the lead of development. But yes it is uncomfortable to see Sega who can afford to make twelve Shenmue's now let alone one go with this option. But if they are most of these projects always have some trade to entice the fans...you can meet Suzuki..you can tour Sega offices and what not.
The anime thing may work..its when it comes to video games that's the question. And another factor is like with everything else...this seems to be japan focused and not world focused...IE the west may not even get a chance to really fully participate. I doubt we will see this att he Sega .com website when they launch the game part of this or the games that would interest western sega fans.
But if Sega is successful in this no doubt everyone else will try to follow their lead.
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The only way SHENMUE 3 can work is if Suzuki is involved and that his company is the one taking the lead of development.
Do you mean in terms of quality or legality? I thought Sega owns all the rights and IP and can do whatever the hell they want with it, regardless of Yu Suzuki's input.
If you mean quality, then yes, everyone would want his involvement in the game. I wonder if he'd even want to do it at this point in his life/career?
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I wonder if people will get behind the idea of funding for a corporation who can clearly fund their own games though?
This has been asked many different times around many different places, the answers always being a resounding no. Logic being that backers shouldn't reward risk-averse companies, adding the fact that these companies can easily fund their own games.
Lord British had trouble funding Shroud of the avatar because everyone new he was a multi millionaire. Until he came out and explained of his own personal investment with regards to money and time already.
Now....If Sega were to give Shenmue as an IP to Suzuki, and have him kickstart it independent of Sega, and say simply claim first dibs on publishing, then people will be throwing money at the screen in droves.
Most people donate to kickstarter precisely because the companies they're backing are responsible to THEM as backers and not to shareholders like a corporation is.
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Most people donate to kickstarter precisely because the companies they're backing are responsible to THEM as backers and not to shareholders like a corporation is.
People may donate to Kickstarters for that reason, but it's a misconception. The only responsibility a Kickstarter project has to its backers is to come through with whatever trinkets they promised at different donation tiers. The backers have made a donation, not an investment. Publicly held companies, on the other hand, do have a responsibility to listen to the wishes of the shareholders and try to generate a return on their investment.
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Do you mean in terms of quality or legality? I thought Sega owns all the rights and IP and can do whatever the hell they want with it, regardless of Yu Suzuki's input.
If you mean quality, then yes, everyone would want his involvement in the game. I wonder if he'd even want to do it at this point in his life/career?
In terms of people funding the game. How many people would fund Sega to make SHENMUE as opposed to Suzuki and his small company to fund it? The corporation or the little guy? Also the more i think of it the more i think this may be where they were going for a while now. Didn't Suzuku hinted at crowd funding SHENMUE at one point and now lo and behold Sega is setting up their own crowdfunding company? I dunno if that's a large coincidence....
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In terms of people funding the game. How many people would fund Sega to make SHENMUE as opposed to Suzuki and his small company to fund it? The corporation or the little guy? Also the more i think of it the more i think this may be where they were going for a while now. Didn't Suzuku hinted at crowd funding SHENMUE at one point and now lo and behold Sega is setting up their own crowdfunding company? I dunno if that's a large coincidence....
He did mention it, I believe it was after a lot of fans were asking him about the possibility. I don't know if it's related or just a logical potential solution.
I can agree with what you mean, people would be reluctant to give Sega money to make it, but also I think most fans are probably of the mindset that if it's not Yu Suzuki it's not Shenmue.
I would donate either way, depending on what the reward for doing so would be.
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He did mention it, I believe it was after a lot of fans were asking him about the possibility. I don't know if it's related or just a logical potential solution.
I can agree with what you mean, people would be reluctant to give Sega money to make it, but also I think most fans are probably of the mindset that if it's not Yu Suzuki it's not Shenmue.
I would donate either way, depending on what the reward for doing so would be.
I wouldn't for two reasons. Sega has the money to make SHENMUE. They just don't have the will. That's always ben the problem with SOJ management. A lack of leadership. I'm not putting ANY money towards a game that they should be doing themselves. What they are asking for is "hey guys.. were a company that makes billions of yen but don't want to spend the money. So can you not only fund the game so we can make it but also buy the game when its released. That way we will make money on a game we didn't have to put our own resources into it. Thanks."
And then think about the merchandise. Japanese games and merchandise are synominus nowadays. A crowd funded game which becomes a hit, will not only line up their pockets but any licensing and merchandise they make off of it. I've already invested my money into sega and they're going too much in a direction i didn't want them to go in which is why i took most of my own money out by selling those shares except the one i didn't own orginally. I'm not paying money on top of that for something they should do themselves.
Either way i'll still get paid whether they do it or not. And that's what you guys need to think about. Giving you're money to a billion dollar company to fund a game that could do well on the market and end up being a payday for the board and shareholders.
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I wouldn't for two reasons. Sega has the money to make SHENMUE. They just don't have the will. That's always ben the problem with SOJ management. A lack of leadership. I'm not putting ANY money towards a game that they should be doing themselves. What they are asking for is "hey guys.. were a company that makes billions of yen but don't want to spend the money. So can you not only fund the game so we can make it but also buy the game when its released. That way we will make money on a game we didn't have to put our own resources into it. Thanks."
I'm not paying money on top of that for something they should do themselves.
Either way i'll still get paid whether they do it or not. And that's what you guys need to think about. Giving you're money to a billion dollar company to fund a game that could do well on the market and end up being a payday for the board and shareholders.
For once we agree one something. Well said ROJM.
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I wouldn't for two reasons. Sega has the money to make SHENMUE. They just don't have the will. That's always ben the problem with SOJ management. A lack of leadership. I'm not putting ANY money towards a game that they should be doing themselves. What they are asking for is "hey guys.. were a company that makes billions of yen but don't want to spend the money. So can you not only fund the game so we can make it but also buy the game when its released. That way we will make money on a game we didn't have to put our own resources into it. Thanks."
And then think about the merchandise. Japanese games and merchandise are synominus nowadays. A crowd funded game which becomes a hit, will not only line up their pockets but any licensing and merchandise they make off of it. I've already invested my money into sega and they're going too much in a direction i didn't want them to go in which is why i took most of my own money out by selling those shares except the one i didn't own orginally. I'm not paying money on top of that for something they should do themselves.
Either way i'll still get paid whether they do it or not. And that's what you guys need to think about. Giving you're money to a billion dollar company to fund a game that could do well on the market and end up being a payday for the board and shareholders.
See that's why the rewards matter.
I've only ever funded one thing in this manner and that was Broken Age. I backed it for $100AUD I believe, which gets me a digital copy of the game, a limited boxed copy of the game and a T-shirt. That's basically a collector's edition for the price of a collector's edition in Australia (It also gives me a box set of the making of I believe, and a lot of non-tangible bonuses like access to betas and behind the scenes stuff as it comes available).
If Sega asked for funding, almost certainly any donation that comes close to the price of a game would mean that you get a copy of the game on release. In that way I see it as more of a 'pre-order' and you're putting your faith in the development team to make it good. I would only do that for select developers, but if it was Shenmue I would take the risk.
In that way I don't see it so much as a slight to fans, it's basically 'Hey, you said you would buy this game, here's your opportunity to do a very advanced pre-order to fund it, because it's the only way we'll take the risk'.
As for the possibility of making money elsewhere etc, people who back crowdfunded endeavours are not investors. They should not expect anything other than what they are promised as a reward. You put down $100 for a Copy of the game and a poster, that is all you are entitled to, and I don't know why anyone would be expecting more than that. If they don't deliver I believe you are legally enabled to demand your money back.
I can understand the principle of 'Sega has the money to do this themselves' but realistically, they never will. They wont do anything with the franchise, apart from sit on the IP rights and not let anyone else touch it. It's too big a risk and too big an investment. If the fans want it, they should be willing to buy a copy of the game via pre-order.
I guess in a way it's similar to Bayo 2. Sega could have funded that game, but they didn't. Instead of Nintendo stepping in to fund it, the fans could. Wouldn't you rather have a fan-funded game than none at all?
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For once we agree one something. Well said ROJM.
Also it takes money to set things like that up. Part of the reason Segasammy has been cutting back is because of the insane investments they have made. The tried to set up a movie studio that completely missed the point of and didn't use the assets they should have used. How much money do you guys think cost the company? A lot. A lot of the money that they have lost isn't just down to sega or sammy. They have actually been making money in their respective fields. Its the umbrella company that lost a lot of the money outside the usual losses these companies make individually. They couldn't run a movie production company properly so i really have no faith that they can run a crowd funding company properly either. Sega needs western blood back into the company and lead the board. They basically need a Kalinske. Why was it that under Kalinske did Sega soar to the top? That hasn't happened since he left the company. How come when Hayes was around did Sega make substantial grounds in the western market place with the titles that they had and the investments in the PC market that he made? If SOJ was doing it by themselves they wouldn't have bothered and lost even more money.
Japanese management at least under sega doen't have the type of motzy you need to even run a crowdfunding operation where you need to be charismatic and everything else to appeal to the average joe gamer. There is a reason why companies like Microsoft and Apple got to where they are because they had a leader in those companies that was focused on the company and what they needed to do. SOJ and segasammy hasn't had that since Kalinske left..and let's face it guys..he was the leader of Sega more so than the guy running SOJ at the time. This company won't work because SOJ is running it.
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I guess in a way it's similar to Bayo 2. Sega could have funded that game, but they didn't. Instead of Nintendo stepping in to fund it, the fans could. Wouldn't you rather have a fan-funded game than none at all?
That's not the point. Its like asking you to pay Donald Trumps bills when he has more than enough money to pay it off himself..tenfold. Its nothing to do with whether or not i want this game or not. Its the principle of it. SHENMUE 3 is hypothetical at this point but it really goes for al the other stuff that this company is meant to crowd fund for. Anime shows? Sega fricking owns TMS one of the big anime studios in japan. Which is another example of them having an asset like that and never bloody using them properly.
Why fund a anime when Sega has an anime studio and the money...which TMS also has themselves...and do it themselves? Don't you see what's wrong with this picture?
This is why i keep telling people that you need to know exactly how and in what position a video games company is in. If all of you believed TA's lies...you would think Sega has no money at all and not making a profit...which is what half the gaming public think..despite sega buying Atlus last year. I know to a degree how Sega works and i defiantly know they don't need to do this..they are no where in dire straits. It kinda is a slap in the face to the projects that really would need this money and benefit from it more.
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Wouldn't you rather have a fan-funded game than none at all?
Personally no. Sega can't have its cake and eat it too. If they refuse to lay down money, then they should hand over the IP to platinum and risk losing the IP to platinum in the event of a successful crowdfunding campaign instead.
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Personally no. Sega can't have its cake and eat it too. If they refuse to lay down money, then they should hand over the IP to platinum and risk losing the IP to platinum in the event of a successful crowdfunding campaign instead.
Wouldn't want them to lose IP but that's what it boils down to. They have the money even more than a lot of their peer in japan. Do it themselves. I agree on you with that.
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Guys I do not think this will be something specifically for fans. It is more like a japanese version of kickstarter. )
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Guys I do not think this will be something specifically for fans. It is more like a japanese version of kickstarter. )
I said that already. But whether its japan or the west its still amounts to the same thing. Why crowdfund something that a company like Sega has the funds in abundance, themselves to do it?
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Personally no. Sega can't have its cake and eat it too. If they refuse to lay down money, then they should hand over the IP to platinum and risk losing the IP to platinum in the event of a successful crowdfunding campaign instead.
The problem is they wont. They'll sit on that IP until Judgement Day and not do a thing with it. If they don't have the risk of losing money however, they might use their resources to actually make the game.
That's not the point. Its like asking you to pay Donald Trumps bills when he has more than enough money to pay it off himself..tenfold. Its nothing to do with whether or not i want this game or not. Its the principle of it.
If I paid 1% of Donald Trumps electricity bill, and then he let me use his home theatre system for the weekend and take a beer from his fridge, that's more of a fair comparison. I'm purchasing something from him.
I can put down money to purchase a copy of Shenmue III, and that money goes directly to funding said game so when it's released I get my copy.
I can understand your stance on this, but I do feel that this is an interesting opportunity to take risks that would usually be written off entirely and never attempted. I don't really see why it's a negative, nor why Sega 'should' be funding a risky project themselves. Left to their own devices it's plain to see that Sega would rather spend money on Mobile Games instead.
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Anyway they are only investing in the company that is doing the crowdfunding video games crowd funding project. Its not really an indication that Sega IP will be up for crowdfunding. Were probably getting carried away with this whole thing.
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Anyway they are only investing in the company that is doing the crowdfunding video games crowd funding project. Its not really an indication that Sega IP will be up for crowdfunding. Were probably getting carried away with this whole thing.
True, I doubt it'll be used directly. I'm kind of surprised they are looking into a new crowdfunding project, considering that there's already quite a few in existence. I wonder what they are looking to do differently, or if it's just Kickstarter centered around a Japanese audience.
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True, I doubt it'll be used directly. I'm kind of surprised they are looking into a new crowdfunding project, considering that there's already quite a few in existence. I wonder what they are looking to do differently, or if it's just Kickstarter centered around a Japanese audience.
From what i understand, Sega networks is investing money into Goopa with someone else like Fuji TV and that money will be used to set up the company crowfunder which will focus on games and anime. The games/anime that made will obviously air on Fuji networks or carried by Sega networks. But its only for japan as well. So they basically want their own version of crowddfunding that they directly benefit from and control rather than using something already established.
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So basically what you are saying is that Sega is suffering from "Not Invented here syndrome"?
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So basically what you are saying is that Sega is suffering from "Not Invented here syndrome"?
I'm saying that if these crowd funded projects are based on games and anime that are new..sega and Fuji will basically have new IP that the public have paid for.
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More info...Sega Networks had a conference with their Autumn/Winter releases for mobile.
In between the announcements, they just expose two new things:
-Noah Pass, their system to purchase in-game items or microtransactions in their games, now has a new alliance with Amazon for expanding the service (possible Kindle Fire promotion in Japan by Sega and Amazon?Who knows...)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByetxV7IUAA5j_H.jpg)
-Crowdrive is also a cloud system service that will provides videogames (See that MD in the graphics....)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByeuRYRIUAAk7wL.jpg)
Now this is turning much bigger than before....
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Now this is starting to sound more like Square Enix's "Shinra" cloud system with some crowd-funding elements.
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Now this is starting to sound more like Square Enix's "Shinra" cloud system with some crowd-funding elements.
Speaking about "Shinra", what is that exactly?, like an "Origin" but from Square-Enix?
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Speaking about "Shinra", what is that exactly?, like an "Origin" but from Square-Enix?
Nah, It's like "Onlive" but from Square Enix
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The NOAH pass is a thing like the SEGA.ALLNET network in japanese arcades.
Like I said, Sega has lots games and success in the online field of phones and japanese arcades, yet they haven't expanded beyond PSO2 with PC on consoles. They really should get on that.
Yet wierder, they haven't been able to get all their phone games worldwide. Even tough the western division is said to be focused on digital.