SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Sharky on May 27, 2010, 07:19:43 pm
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Title says it all. The VF series is the best 3D fighter from a technical standpoint. No doubt about it... But it has never been the best sales wise.
What does Sega need to do to make the game more appealing to the western audience and perhaps even the Japanese these days.
In my opinion VF could benefit from these things.
- A practice mode that teaches players how to get good at the character they choose. Teaches you moves and how to use your character. Some what like the one in VF4 Evo.
- A deeper character customization mode... As much as I used to dislike the idea I think building your fighters look and feel has become an important part of 3D fighters these days (thanks Namco, you prick) I think they should expand the options found in VF5 and make it more robust.
- Story mode... Yep, story mode. While there is a story to each VF game it isn’t really represented in the game at all. I think this would bring in a lot of fresh new blood to the series. Kids want characters they can attach them selves too and nothing does that better then a bit of back story. I know when I watched this in VF3tb for the first time I really loved it, and still do. More of this!
[youtube:1tklpdp3]8Fkoo7_PL4c[/youtube:1tklpdp3]
- More battle types... Team battle etc...
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They should not have a character creator, but instead just improve their character designing mode. You can really do a lot, but of course there are always room for improvement. Also it would not hurt if you could dress up the characters like stuff from other IPs. It should not be too hard, give Akira Ryo's jacket, and there you go.
I also agree that there should be a story mode, but I would like it if it were set up to not be like arcade with videos, but instead an RPG mode of sorts. This could all be set through menus and work fine without upsetting the fans I think.
With that they really REALLY need to kick up the quality of the character stories. Jeffrey has been in every game because of a shark, Vanessa and Sarah lost their memories, holy shit, what is this crap? If you are going to do it all, do it at least half decent!
They absolutely NEED to design the future games to have addons in mind. I have never seen such a whiney SEGA fanbase in my life, saying stuff like just because SEGA never released Version D of VF5 that they should burn in Hell and none of their products should ever sell again. Seriously, an easy fix for this is just having addon support planned for the console releases from the start.
More females. I personally want them to make all of the characters look like 'fighters' again, and I think they can still do this while giving the girls slutty outfits. It will just change by the players tastes instead.
I think a 'Fighting Vipers' kind of gameplay mode where the players wear armor and can blast one another across the levels constantly would be recieved very well by everyone. It should be taken far less seriously than the main fighting, but given enough bulk for players to just use that and be satisfied.
Improve Quest mode to offer online options, and more online modes in general.
More features that can keep less hardcore fans for hours at a time. The RPG stuff I mentioned previously is good, but I think tons of unlockables for every little thing you can do will get players really interested in playing longer.
Better achievements that are more abundant and way easier to get.
More Sonic references I guess.
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I think that the main problem is the stigma of 'Virtua Fighter is for hXc Hardcore gamers and nobody else!11', when I used to play and love it when I was 10 years old. It's a game that's not that hard to pick up and learn and I think Sega needs to get that out there.
As you said, the training/practice mode is a good idea, not just the training mode from VF5 that lists the moves, but something that teaches you right from the most basics up.
As for Character Customisation, it's already the single most robust I can think of, the amount of costumes and accessories is very high as it is.
Finally, I agree with Story mode being included, if only because Quest Mode in VF5 could easily be made into 'Story mode' with some basic story interludes (even in text form, like Soul Caliber's Quest Mode) and might pick up a few extra buyers looking for single player depth.
One other thing I think Sega should do is try to get VF represented at the big Tournaments like EVO in Las Vegas and SBO in Japan. That would give the game huge exposure to the fighting game community in America, and I think that would transfer over to the casual scene as well. I know that SNK has already managed to reserve a spot in SBO for King of Fighters XIII so they obviously feel it's worth it, and i don't imagine it would be THAT hard, especially if Sega put some weight behind it.
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Personally I hate fighting games with stories.
For a fighting game to sell it must be heavily stylized and be over-the-top. I hate both as well, so Virtua Fighter is just right for me and many other people that think this way.
Everyone who likes playing a fighting game for gameplay also loves Virtua Fighter.
So I think VF is more of a niche thing really.. I would not want to destroy the game's soul for the benefit of marketability.
I agree with more females. And the kind of RPG mode thing, sounds fun.
I also think there should be an absurd amount of stuff to unlock. Like hats and sunglasses for the characters, background statues of Sega characters, sky color tones, loads of stuff.
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I agree with the extensive tutorial mode too.
Easy trophies/achievements would be a nice bonus too.
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The practice mode in VF Evo is the best there is, I'm just amazed it was taken out of VF 5.
I think its too late to make VF sell inthe USA. SEGA lost out to Namco inthe Home and NAMCO were smart to use System 13 for the Arcades, which meant even my local Chippy could afford the Arcade board , That and the general decline of VS fighters mean its too late .
What I would like to see is a VF Remix II . Everything that went into the Saturn version , only now add in stages from VF 3, FV II, hell even Out Run II and what not , More unLockables like Arabian Fight (and other AM#2 Arcade coin-ups) Full VF.net options -users being able to download and upload clips Online Ranking modes ECT, U . Are the only way I can see VF selling a million copies or so.
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Title says it all. The VF series is the best 3D fighter from a technical standpoint. No doubt about it... But it has never been the best sales wise.
What does Sega need to do to make the game more appealing to the western audience and perhaps even the Japanese these days.
In my opinion VF could benefit from these things.
- A practice mode that teaches players how to get good at the character they choose. Teaches you moves and how to use your character. Some what like the one in VF4 Evo.
- A deeper character customization mode... As much as I used to dislike the idea I think building your fighters look and feel has become an important part of 3D fighters these days (thanks Namco, you prick) I think they should expand the options found in VF5 and make it more robust.
- Story mode... Yep, story mode. While there is a story to each VF game it isn’t really represented in the game at all. I think this would bring in a lot of fresh new blood to the series. Kids want characters they can attach them selves too and nothing does that better then a bit of back story. I know when I watched this in VF3tb for the first time I really loved it, and still do. More of this!
[youtube:i9h6cakl]8Fkoo7_PL4c[/youtube:i9h6cakl]
- More battle types... Team battle etc...
Well for one thing when they marketed the last game it would help if the marketed it where people could see it. In the UK it was advertised in the cinemas and on small poster billboards. If they want big sales they need to put it out on market where everyone can see it and not for the gamers who are going to buy it anyway.
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Well for one thing when they marketed the last game it would help if the marketed it where people could see it. In the UK it was advertised in the cinemas and on small poster billboards. If they want big sales they need to put it out on market where everyone can see it and not for the gamers who are going to buy it anyway.
I'm surprised they had even that in the UK, all I saw in Australia was some ads on IGN.
Even so, I'm not sure how much advertising to the general public would help this particular game, it doesn't seem to be the sort of thing that people would buy on a whim. I think that they need to focus on fighting games fans (even casual ones who only play a bit of SFIV and Marvel or something). I think you have a point though that they need to look at the advertising for the series.
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Some good ideas!
I like the quest mode idea where it plays like an RPG but I don't think that is ever something they would do. I think a few CGI cutscenes between battles is as far as they would go unfortunitly.
Mademan is right, I agree Sega should be trying to get VF5 into all of these tauniments.
I agree Sega needs to advertise better, I hope when VF5:FS comes out they will give it some TV ads.
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Basically what I hear here is become Tekken.
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Basically what I hear here is become Tekken.
Nobody has mentioned anything about making the combat easy for shit munchers.
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I don't know that a story would help VF that much. MvC2 practically has no story, but I still love to play it. I don't need to read Marvel comics to think that Colossus is fun to play, nor do I need a backstory for Ash Crimson and Bao (from KOF) to think they're really cool and interesting.
What I'm saying here is that the largest parts of the appeal for fighting games are the core gameplay, the characters, and the overall visual appeal. Those are the three things that should be focused on the most.
VF is fine in the graphics department. As for characters, I think that the various added fashion costumes can do a lot to remove the blandness from the character designs, so that players aren't stuck with Generic Karate Guy vs. Generic Ninja Guy. They need to feature them more prominently in future screenshots and advertisements.
The only problem is the gameplay itself. It's kind of a niche-only thing these days. The best thing that SEGA could hope for is to advertise the hell out of it and hope that it catches on, but I don't know that it would be pulling gamers away from games with 2D fighting mechanics very much.
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Basically what I hear here is become Tekken.
Nobody has mentioned anything about making the combat easy for shit munchers.
U THINK PULLING OFF DEM JUNGLE COMBOS WITH A BEAR IS EASY!
lol
Talking about Tekken, they just announced Tekken 7. Your turn SEGA!
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Talking about Tekken, they just announced Tekken 7. Your turn SEGA!
You want Sega to announce Tekken 7 too? That would sure shit Namco up... ;p
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(http://http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/720/1275056765771.jpg)
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BlazBlue fans are sexy stripping Asian guys?
How I wish that were true in America.
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Talking about Tekken, they just announced Tekken 7. Your turn SEGA!
You want Sega to announce Tekken 7 too? That would sure shit Namco up... ;p
ASSHOLE. I mean't announce Virtua Fighter 6.
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BlazBlue fans are sexy stripping Asian guys?
That is a woman.
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Talking about Tekken, they just announced Tekken 7. Your turn SEGA!
You want Sega to announce Tekken 7 too? That would sure shit Namco up... ;p
ASSHOLE. I mean't announce Virtua Fighter 6.
i think they won't announced it until 2012 or by the end of the next year
i wonder if it will be Based on Ring Edge , but i highly doubt it
it's not powerful enough to guarantee the next release
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That is a woman.
How did you find this out? (http://http://forums.sega.com/images/icons/icon7.gif)
(I like how immediately after my post, nobody wants to discuss the topic anymore. I suppose I said all that was needed to be said.)
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I think to become mainstream, i guess as you call it, it needs more than just be an arcade port. Though 3-D fighting games in general are on a decline, people are coming back to the 2-D; which SF4 basically is only rendered in 3-D .
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Sega games don't sell to the hardcore. Nobody wants Sega games. VF isn't Tekken or Street Fighter or Soul Calibur. Nothing to do about it.
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Virtua Fighter 4 did rather well for itself, the Virtua Fighter series has, before, on console releases hit over 1 million units sold. 2 did that in Japan alone.
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Tekken or Street Fighter or Soul Calibur. Nothing to do about it.
Outside of Street Fighter, all of those have been doing terribly. Even on two platforms Tekken 6 was the worst selling in the series in a long time, and Soul Calibur has drastically dropped in sales (quality too).
Not really just that, but Street Fighter's impact on the industry is now significantly less than it was last generation, or the one before. It has more to do with people just not wanting basic fighters than anything.
Virtua Fighter has proven successful before many times, it just needs new concepts to improve interest. Not really a reboot, but a new image.
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Perhaps a Fighters Megamix 2 would be a good promotional idea, except that since nobody remembers the first game, it'd have to be called "Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Fighting" or whatever. =P
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SEGA vs. Capcom? Tekken team wants to do a cross over ;3 /.
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I don't get Tekken. It sucks big time.
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I don't get Tekken. It sucks big time.
Tekken's big draw's are the big cast of characters, and the fact that you can jump into it with no clue what you're doing, and do relatively well.
If you don't know what you're doing in Virtua Fighter, you get spanked.
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and the fact that you can jump into it with no clue what you're doing, and do relatively well.
But that's my biggest gripe with it! The first time I played Tekken it was at some tournament at school and I won against this guy that played it for 3 years. Then he turned into some kind of dragon or demon or something and killed me with one hit.
This is utterly stupid and unbalanced.
I like how in Virtua Fighter a match between two people really shows who's the best, and how if you start playing it from zero with a friend, your skills will be balanced along time. That is much fun.
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and the fact that you can jump into it with no clue what you're doing, and do relatively well.
But that's my biggest gripe with it! The first time I played Tekken it was at some tournament at school and I won against this guy that played it for 3 years. Then he turned into some kind of dragon or demon or something and killed me with one hit.
This is utterly stupid and unbalanced.
I like how in Virtua Fighter a match between two people really shows who's the best, and how if you start playing it from zero with a friend, your skills will be balanced along time. That is much fun.
Didn't say it was a good thing, but that is why it sells better.
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Didn't say it was a good thing, but that is why it sells better.
I understood that.
I guess the fact that by compairson VF sells less than it used to is because the hardcore market isn't the most profitable as it used to be.
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In a way, it's sort of like the novelty has worn off for 3D fighters. They seemed so cool to those of us living back in the 90's, but now there's nothing impressive about a fighting game with 3D graphics. It's like a short time fad that came and went.
I have a feeling that a lot of kids today who have always had 3D graphics would take one look at Virtua Fighter and say "What is this boring crap? Meh, I'm going back to Smash Bros."
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I think a home release of Final Showdown would do better than the older releases of VF5. The install base of the PS3 is much, much larger now than it was near launch, and there is a pretty high interest in fighters in general lately (SSFIV as an example)
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Yeah, maybe. But SEGA would absolutely have to get the word out, which they're not too good at doing.
You know... another problem for North America is that not as many people have old memories of Virtua Fighter games due to SEGA's lack of console success in its first major releases (VF 1, 2, and 3tb, plus Kids). So they couldn't even hope to appeal to nostalgia in the NA region as much as the Street Fighter series could.
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The key wouldn't be so much in conventional advertising, so much as getting an internet buzz going.
Get some big name game journalists (IGN, Kotaku, G4, etc...), plus game reps from major news sites/tech blogs, to give the new game a hands on. Some glowing writeups, some trending topics on twitter, excess of "likes" on facebook......
Use all these social networks to their advantage.
The key is knowing the audience they're going for. Virtua Fighter isn't for everybody, so don't market it to everybody. It's the most advanced 3D fighter out there. Work that angle. Go for the core gamer that plays fighting games. Convince them that if they don't have Virtua Fighter, they're behind the times.
Genesis does what Nintendon't and all that.
If that core audience is hooked, word of mouth will get the attention of others.
Hell, look at what Call of Duty's become in a few years (Activision politics aside, the game's a phenomenon). Granted, that's a shooter, wich seems to be to this generation what platformers were to 16 bit, and JRPGs were to 32-bit eras, but still.
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^Thats why I was thinking Sega shold be supporting it heavily in tournaments and arcades. Virtua Fighter is the official fighter for World Cyber Games, but EVO doesn't have an official VF tournament and neither does Major League Gaming.
It wouldn't cost much (relatively) for Sega to do some PR to sponsor VF5 at Las Vegas for EVO this year or next and offer a decent prize to tournament winners, but I think it would improve the image greatly.
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Sega needs to invent a time machine to go back to the mid 90's.
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^Thats why I was thinking Sega shold be supporting it heavily in tournaments and arcades. Virtua Fighter is the official fighter for World Cyber Games, but EVO doesn't have an official VF tournament and neither does Major League Gaming.
It wouldn't cost much (relatively) for Sega to do some PR to sponsor VF5 at Las Vegas for EVO this year or next and offer a decent prize to tournament winners, but I think it would improve the image greatly.
Agreed
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^Thats why I was thinking Sega shold be supporting it heavily in tournaments and arcades. Virtua Fighter is the official fighter for World Cyber Games, but EVO doesn't have an official VF tournament and neither does Major League Gaming.
It wouldn't cost much (relatively) for Sega to do some PR to sponsor VF5 at Las Vegas for EVO this year or next and offer a decent prize to tournament winners, but I think it would improve the image greatly.
Those are good and nice ideas, but you need a game to back it up . I think its too late for VF5, but if SEGA were to make a VF 6 or Megamix II, and use your ideas as well, and make full use of VF.Net for the home , it could work .
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^I was thinking of Final Showdown when/if that gets a console release. I would do something similar to KOFXIII's release where they announced it would be an official tournament game at 'Super Battle Opera' the day it was announced.
Sega could announce VF5FS will have a sponsored tournament at EVO/MLG/SBO etc the day it's announced for consoles.
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SEGA did this for AVP, do tournaments for it. The game did 1.69 million.
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^I was thinking of Final Showdown when/if that gets a console release. I would do something similar to KOFXIII's release where they announced it would be an official tournament game at 'Super Battle Opera' the day it was announced.
Sega could announce VF5FS will have a sponsored tournament at EVO/MLG/SBO etc the day it's announced for consoles.
I know what you're saying, but lets face it VF 5 is dead in the west now , noone really cares for it , and I'm not sure SEGA even bothered to bring the game to the West inthe Arcades . SEGA really needs to make a console exclusive VF , making full use of next gen graphics and Online modes , and then can build a Tournament behind that.
I don't see much point in having a Tournament to a game that as sold poor in the west , be it on 360 or PS3 . Much better to focus on a new VF imo .
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I wish Shenmue had been a sucsess becuase I could see them adding side stories to the VF games maybe in stand alone games or maybe attached to the fighter using the Shenmue engine. Telling the stories of each fighter.
I would buy 10 of each...
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I wish Shenmue had been a major success because I am fucking crazy enough to want to play all of the 17 or 18 original chapters planned separately. The second game was just about being on the boat, fuck that is so awesome.
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The second game was just about being on the boat, fuck that is so awesome.
Sounds boring.
Par for the course?
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I wish Shenmue had been a major success because I am fucking crazy enough to want to play all of the 17 or 18 original chapters planned separately. The second game was just about being on the boat, fuck that is so awesome.
(http://http://www.warwicksu.com/asset/event/4004/Pirate.gif)
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The second game was just about being on the boat, fuck that is so awesome.
Sounds boring.
No, you protect a girl and fight Chai on the boat because he climbed up on it, WOAH! The potential for pirates as well is so awesome too, WOAH!
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There is no needs to change anything on VF series;
the game is perfect!
My only complain is about the story behind it.
Yu Suzuki was not a fan of pre-rendered CG movies, that's why AM2 don't make many movies. Sega neither...
I think the addition of a story mode with CG movies would work fine. Maybe in VF6, since VF5 is too old now. About VF6, probably Sega will use the game to release a new board, like they always do with the series.
About the story, the pieces we have are very interesting, but very confused at the same time, and sometimes oddly like the stories made by Capcom -_-
I'm still looking for the 4th Champion of VF... seems like there was no champion on VF4. Kage and Shun fought in the last, but the fight was not finished...
Another interesting part of the story is Jean; he is Lion's friend, but Lion don't remember him. Same as Jean, who has no memories of his past, thanks to J6.
There are also rumors about Akira's and Lion's father being involved with the J6. I really wanna a story mode with CG movies ;p
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SEGA doesn't like making CG movies? Don't they own a CG studio?
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I know what you're saying, but lets face it VF 5 is dead in the west now , noone really cares for it , and I'm not sure SEGA even bothered to bring the game to the West inthe Arcades . SEGA really needs to make a console exclusive VF , making full use of next gen graphics and Online modes , and then can build a Tournament behind that.
I don't see much point in having a Tournament to a game that as sold poor in the west , be it on 360 or PS3 . Much better to focus on a new VF imo .
Ahh, sorry I thought you meant VF5 Vanilla specifically, which I agree on. I think that Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown (or they could rename it just Virtua Fighter: Final Showdown if they want to dissasociate with 5) can still be successful.
I'm not certain on VF5, but for 5R it wasn't bought to the west because of Sega's new ideas for Arcades. They didn't sell machines, but only 'leased' them to owners, AND the machines needed to be hooked up to VF.net to run at all. This meant that pretty much only Japanese arcades were able to host the machines. I remember reading on SRK some arcade operators approaching Sega to buy a cab but had to be turned away.
As for making it console exclusive, I don't think that would be wise. In Japan especially an arcade release is still lucrative and helpful in attracting the hardcore players that would be likely to attend the tournaments in the first place. Capcom is even planning a Super Street Fighter IV Arcade release due to demand I believe.
And lets not forget, didn't VF4:Evo outsell VF4 Vanilla? I think that Final Showdown would be a fine showcase for something like this.
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SEGA doesn't like making CG movies? Don't they own a CG studio?
Just Yu Suzuki isn't a fan of them. Sonic Team loves the crap out of those CG movies.
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Just Yu Suzuki isn't a fan of them. Sonic Team loves the crap out of those CG movies
Yu Doesn't work on the VF series anymore , and there's been plenty of AM#2 and Yu Suzuki games that featured CGI and intro's Saturn VF Kids is fully of them .In fact most of AM#2 Saturn games featured CGI intro's
As for making it console exclusive, I don't think that would be wise. In Japan especially an arcade release is still lucrative and helpful in attracting the hardcore players that would be likely to attend the tournaments in the first place. Capcom is even planning a Super Street Fighter IV Arcade release due to demand I believe.
Oh I don't mean make VF only for the home . I just mean SEGA should make a MegaMix II developed only for the 360 and PS3 and to use their chipsets fully . Make its a sort of Fan service, like Fighters Mega Mix or Smash Brothers
And lets not forget, didn't VF4:Evo outsell VF4 Vanilla
I thought both VF 4 and VF Evo sold well on the PS2, but that was when Vs Fighters were still sort of popular inthe West . Vs Fighters seem to be in decline these days. As much I like and admire VF 5, its not much of step up over VF Evo (which to me is the pinnacle of the series )
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CG intros are just CG intros. They were stupidly popular in the 32 bit era. Every game had them and in all of them they had no influence in the game itself. Yu Suzuki doesn't like CG sections. Everything must be real time. I think he said it himself in that GDC talk where he presented Shenmue.
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Just Yu Suzuki isn't a fan of them. Sonic Team loves the crap out of those CG movies
Yu Doesn't work on the VF series anymore , and there's been plenty of AM#2 and Yu Suzuki games that featured CGI and intro's Saturn VF Kids is fully of them .In fact most of AM#2 Saturn games featured CGI intro's
Just relaying what Storm said
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CG intros are just CG intros. They were stupidly popular in the 32 bit era. Every game had them and in all of them they had no influence in the game itself. Yu Suzuki doesn't like CG sections. Everything must be real time. I think he said it himself in that GDC talk where he presented Shenmue.
I was only pointing out that a number of Yu Suzuki and AM#2 games have FMV or CGI intro's. I remember Yu Suzuki showing off CinePak FMV Jackie driving in his car, when AM#2 and Yu Suzuki held its Saturn Fight back press conference to show off Saturn VF II , hell even the likes of OutTrigger had a pointless intro, VF Kids had a different FMV for each character . Its simply the case that a lot of AM#2 games had FMV
Also FMV can have an influence on the game, as a Panzer Dragoon fan , the FMV is every Panzer game, helped to tell the story, and draw one into the world
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Arguing against CG videos is pointless in my opinion, especially in fighing games they serve as a reward for beating the game, unlocking CG endings is what motivates me to play the game with different characters.
Several other plus points of CG videos have been mentioned here, the absence of individual CG endings marginally hurt the VF franchise, however I think Virtua Fighter 6 needs something new and I don't mean the introduction of another fighting style.
I believe Virtua Fighter 4 introduced Character Customization and those features it was a strong selling point but every game has it now, Tekken, Mortal Kombat etc have done considrable experiments in offering something new such as Cart Racing, Adventure Worlds (Konquest, Tekken Force Mode, Tekken Bowling, Tekken VolleyBall).
Virtua Fighter needs something new and fun as well.
Adding CG endings, intros etc will help marginally, may encourage younger players to pick up the game and bond with the characters but every fighting game already seems to be doing that, at the very least Sega wouldn't be missing a segment so it is still a significant factor.