SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: pirovash88 on March 12, 2015, 05:14:12 pm
-
Thought this was an interesting read. There's a lot more to the article in regards to Sony doing really well, along with EA regaining their throne as #1 publisher.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-03-12-stock-ticker-sony-soars-microsoft-slumps-and-ea-reclaims-its-crown (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2015-03-12-stock-ticker-sony-soars-microsoft-slumps-and-ea-reclaims-its-crown)
At the other end of the spectrum, Capcom investors are largely happy with the company's progress in terms of cost-reduction and moving over to digital distribution, with Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate being the stand-out title for the company right now. Sega Sammy's story, meanwhile, is an interesting one. The company's results are increasingly divorced from the videogames business - last year it suffered hugely from the will-they, won't-they drama surrounding the Japanese parliament's decision to pass legislation permitting the construction of casinos in Japan (in the end, the legislation was shelved, but may be revived later this year). This year, Sega Sammy has popped up partially on the realisation that it may have been undervalued last year, and partially on the positive news surrounding a co-venture to construct casinos in South Korea, a country widely expected to become a major centre for gambling resorts in the next few years. Where does Sonic figure in all this? He doesn't, really; Sega Sammy is barely a videogames company any more, but as long as the Sega IP catalogue remains useful and valuable to the firm's other enterprises, any talk of spinning off the videogames businesses (including the excellent overseas offices and studios) will be very premature.
http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles/1/7/4/2/4/0/8/stock-ticker-sony-soars-microsoft-slumps-and-ea-reclaims-its-crown-142617061343.png (http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/articles/1/7/4/2/4/0/8/stock-ticker-sony-soars-microsoft-slumps-and-ea-reclaims-its-crown-142617061343.png)
-
Why they forget Sega Networks?
Also, it doesn't explain why SS pass the Nikei graphic.
Anyway, a good article but with holes in the middle.
-
Well it's now new. When Sega was owned by CSK, the IT services weren't videogames either, that brought in the revenue.
From it's foundation in the 60's, Sega's 3 core businesses, arcade, amusemnt facilities and videogames, haven't changed. But some will spout around that Sega is just pachinko, casinos and resorts now, and thus are dead.
-
Largely biased article that leaves out important division's of SEGA? Like, what is a video game company? Home releases? I argue that SEGA has always been an arcade company first.
The issue here is that they also ignore Alien Isolation, Total War franchise and other in-house developers they purchased. They are part of SEGA, Relic is too. SEGA Networks is too. They all make video games. They ignore the fact that they bought 3 mobile developers, they ignore that they are still a publisher working with likeable developers like GameFreak.
The thing is, this is just the mainstream view of SEGA. SEGA is dead, these articles pop up ever SEGA-Sammy restructure. Why would mainstream press think this way?
It really has to do with them miscovering SEGA games and SEGA having a terrible marketing presence for like 10 years and making bad decisions. Honestly, some have been great but it seems that SEGA continues to chase easy money instead of thinking long term growth (in the America).
The American branch has been the first one to jump head first into shovelware (Golden Compass, Marvel Games, Wii shovelware) to make a quick buck and I think it hurt their branding. THQ did the same thing.
But we can talk about what is 'piratically dead', is it having less in-house developers make games, then say 15 years ago?
1. Relic
2. Creative Assembly
3. Yakuza Team
4. Sonic Team
5. Phantasy Star Team
6. SEGA-AM2 (arcade)
7. Sports Interactive
8. SEGA Networks
9. Demiurge Studios (new)
10. Hardlight Studios
Notice a trend here? Most of the active stuff is Western. I think SEGA Japan needs to sit and stop assuming Americans are scared of Japanese games and I hope VC on Steam showed that.
-
Sega has about 1000 personell involved in game development I think (status 2013)
However the article is reflecting that in terms of revenue, Sega isn't that significant, it's hard to tell really. Pachinko is the big profit maker as it has been, while Sega's goal was more to break even on the consumer side, and I'm really not sure if over the years the animation and toy side was either helping or hindering them.
Now, it is PSO2 and the phone games finding profit that Sega Sammy hasn't seen outside of Arcade and Pachinko in years.
And most importantly we still don't know in hard numbers how fruitful the resort and casino ventures have been. So I'm not sure how truthful the headline here really is.
@George I woudn't coudn't AM2, Sonic Team, Yakuza Studio etc. as seperate. It's all internal Sega Japan R&D. And Sega Networks is a publishing firm.
-
It's mostly about stock or should I say " price per share in speculation". Just like Wall Street every day.
If you see the graphics, the day after the press release of the restructuration, the stock increased a lot. That's because investors and the economy itself speculate a good revenue from that move, just like Capcom when they streamlined they releases to be in pure digital focus (Resident Evil Revelations 2, Dragon Dogma Online, Deep Down and 10 more online games) at the same time when MH4U arrived on the market, but this article didn't talk about that or even anything.
-
In the end of the day, console profits are down, especially in this transition period. Will Sony do 50 million plus units? Sure, but the issue is how much are people spending per game? Right now the main issue is SEGA's brand, believe it or not if someone sees Valkyria Chronicles (back in 2008) most waited till it was cheap to buy it. Most SEGA games drop in 2 months to almost half off (regardless of quality).
IT doesn't help that SEGA has to pay a fee to retailers for shelve space, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, print and ship. The issue that SEGA is facing is that the people running the company before just wanted to make a quick buck as cheaply as possible with cash in titles and misuse of big IPs and overall bad decisions. SEGA will need to settle in and work on their branding. 2K games, Rockstar and the like all have a philosophy of delivering quality games.
Doing bad cash-ins does hurt your brand and in turn it means people will be weary of good titles or wait for them to go cheap in a few weeks.
This isn't getting into the shitty marketing where most people don't even know a game exists until they find it used at Gamestop for 10 dollars then get online whining about why there isn't a sequel.
-
Sonic doesn't fit into SEGA's plans.
This is why SEGA is trying to turn Sonic into an all purpose multimedia franchise spanning animation, movies, video games (Both mobile f2P and console titles) and comics. Clearly not part of a bigger plan.
I mean I'm sure the film might be awful, but SEGA Sammy wouldn't be financing in one way to production of a Sonic film if they didn't have big things planned for the franchise.
-
I think ST found a way to publish Sonic games in Japan that can be popular with Sonic Runners. Almost 500k downloads with the guarantee that japanese users often buy IAP's for their apps in their phones.
This is included in that part of expansion of the brand for sure.
Also, Alien:Isolation is the first game from Sega in so many years that got attention to the public and have the right marketing (well,maybe those deals with Gamestop aren't the best idea but every company do it, so...).
Although some reviews(IGN, Gamespot and Polygon) -bias included- didn't help, there were much less bad reviews than expected and the title got a good Metacritic score, critical recognition and users approval. This title/franchise or any CA console team game should be the AAA puncher that Sega needs to deliberate in a good way with correct time schedule and release day. Sega Europe has a big thing in their hands and they often go to the right direction. I hope this could possible erase that stigma with the Sega brand for most console players.
In PC is different, there is no brand, only a site called Steam when speculation reigns and games could sale a lot with the right PR and Marketing.
-
Sonic doesn't fit into SEGA's plans.
This is why SEGA is trying to turn Sonic into an all purpose multimedia franchise spanning animation, movies, video games (Both mobile f2P and console titles) and comics. Clearly not part of a bigger plan.
I mean I'm sure the film might be awful, but SEGA Sammy wouldn't be financing in one way to production of a Sonic film if they didn't have big things planned for the franchise.
Sonic Adventure The Videogame
Sonic Adventure The Movie
Sonic Z (the SEGA Japan Sonic cartoon, everyone knows they won't let boom live on.)
Sonic Runners (The mobile game)
-
If SEGA aren't a videogame company anymore... How the hell is SEGAbits still updating?! WHAT ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT ON THE FRONT PAGE?!
-
Yeah, why I asked what they even mean by that. Do they mean in-house developers? Profit from video game division? Very strange that they totally ignore Sonic the Hedgehog saying its not inline with SEGA's business... When SEGA just said their focus is mobile, digital and PC; didn't Sonic Runners just come out on mobile? Sounds like they are a focus of SEGA's business... like a lot.
-
Sega's problem is brand identity, which has suffered due to cheap-as-chips and short-termism.st, aside from Sonic, it relies on Total War, Football Manager, andAlien IPs. These are not Sega IPs, no matter how you try to spin it. Sega did not create any of them. EA, Eidos, and Fox created those IPs. Sega may have their logo on Total War, but most PC gamers regard it as a CA game, not a Sega game (and it should be noted that a common comment from PC gamers is "I don't care so long as I get my Total War, Footie Manager". They are not perceived as Sega games; those games could get critical acclaim and sell by the millions, and it would do nothing for the Sega brand. However, in the case of Colonial Marines Sega's brand took damage, because whereas many gamers don't know who Gearbox even are (hence why they have been able to continue largely as before), the brown stuff from Gearbox's mess stuck to Sega.
Sega's only "Sega brand" game is Sonic, and that has been tainted by turds like Sonic '06 and Sonic Boom. So Sega's reputation is not for quality. Why did they outsource to a dev with no prior experience? Because its cheap.You only have to look at the way Sega's internal dev teams were mercilessly dissolved by Sammy, at how their greatest talents, people who effectively built the company's brand (Yu Suzuki and Rieko Kodama) were shoved onto the sidelines, to see the company's shift towards short term, quick fixes. This cynicism can be seen in the fate of Valkyria Chronicles, which could have become a major Sega IP, but instead got cut down into a PSP franchise (thus killing its Western market) to cut costs and try to cash in on the handheld market.
Sega, instead of (re)building its IPs, is acquiring non-Sega IPs, assembling itself into a frankenstein's monster of non-Sega properties. Even in the All Stars Racing games, Sega has a strange, almost self-loathing, obsession with other people's IPs. This effectively makes Sega more like a wholesaler than an actual content creator. Bayonetta 2 and Yakuza 5 being examples of Sega letting other companies do all the work. Sega's whole approach seems to be trying to paper over the cracks of past mistakes; loss of talent? Cover it with acquisitions. Inactive, neglected IPs? Buy up someone eles IPs. Sonic games failing? Move Sonic to other media. Sammy does not care about the Sega brand; Sega is a cow they bought with the intention to milk it. Bad Sonic games damage Sega, not Sammy. Colonial Marines and Sonic Boom are not unhappy accidents; they are the direct result of such a policy.
Sadly, the R&D cuts and the focus on becoming a middle man publisher and acquisitions all point to a company that won't invest in any longterm re-growth, but instead looks for quick fixes at the expense of its brand.
-
They are owned, created with SEGA's money and have SEGA's name on the box... but somehow Total War is not a SEGA game? So Pokemon isn't a Nintendo game?
I love that your still bring up an almost decade year old game to mock SEGA, and Sonic Boom; but if Total War isn't a SEGA game, then its OK to use Sonic Boom a game developed outside a SEGA studio, to talk shit about SEGA. Classic cherry picking.
Yes, SEGA is extending its studios in Europe to get more developers to make games that sell in those regions and they have succeeded. What SEGA Japan does has nothing to do with SEGA Europe. They are building out their own studios.
I agree that SEGA needs to focus on rebuilding their Japanese teams. But ignoring Sonic Team, Yakuza Team, Phantasy Star Team is a bit stupid and misleading.
-
They are owned, created with SEGA's money and have SEGA's name on the box... but somehow Total War is not a SEGA game? So Pokemon isn't a Nintendo game?
I love that your still bring up an almost decade year old game to mock SEGA, and Sonic Boom; but if Total War isn't a SEGA game, then its OK to use Sonic Boom a game developed outside a SEGA studio, to talk shit about SEGA. Classic cherry picking.
Yes, SEGA is extending its studios in Europe to get more developers to make games that sell in those regions and they have succeeded. What SEGA Japan does has nothing to do with SEGA Europe. They are building out their own studios.
I agree that SEGA needs to focus on rebuilding their Japanese teams. But ignoring Sonic Team, Yakuza Team, Phantasy Star Team is a bit stupid and misleading.
Exactly. Nintendo do not own Hal Laboratory, GameFreak or Intelligent and neither own 100% of the rights for a host of IPs those development houses have created. These are still Nintendo games.
And outsourcing to the likes of Big Red Button and Gearbox was not cheap, one title cost $20 million to make and the other cost a lot more. Bad management sure, but looking to go for cheap outsourced jobs? Not at all.
-
Also may add; hiring Bioware, Gearbox, and Obsidian to do games isn't cheap outsourced jobs in terms of the developers. You got to understand, Gearbox was right off the success of Borderlands.
-
I do find Sega's future concerning regardless of this article.
As times gone by, we've seen Sega shrink and change with only some luck with their titles. They've changed as needs must, but a lot of their decision have left a lot to be desired. They have such a vast library of games at their disposal yet rarely use them. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are willing to take risks on new ideas etc, but some old faces would be nice too.
They don't even need to be big games. Smaller downloadable titles have shined more than a lot of the triple "A" titles over the years.
-
If SEGA aren't a videogame company anymore... How the hell is SEGAbits still updating?! WHAT ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT ON THE FRONT PAGE?!
C'Mon Then Sharky what has SEGA got to offer the console gamer over the next few years ? . I not intrestest in PC gaming or Mobiles (and every major corps also works on PC and Mobile) I like to know what SEGA got to offer the console gamer and for me its not a lot at the mo, bar 1 or 2 titles .
IT doesn't help that SEGA has to pay a fee to retailers for shelve space, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, print and ship
.
That what happens when you don't have any major selling IP and one of the reasons why Yakuza 5 is digital
But we can talk about what is 'piratically dead', is it having less in-house developers make games, then say 15 years ago?
Well SEGA Japan output is nothing like it was 15 years ago and SEGA back in 2000 SEGA Japan alone had
Wow
AM#2
Smilebit
Sonic Team
Amusment Vision
Overworks
Sega Rosso
Hitmaker
UGA
That's was SEGA Japan alone and Smilebite alone would produce more titles in 1 year that the whole of SEGA Japan does now for the console gamer
You can go trying to pretend there's no much change and that that , but there is . SEGA Japan is becoming less and less important to a console gamer and that isn't good at all Even in the Arcades SEGA Japan isn't half the company it once was .
-
Well we all know Sega isn't as good as it was before (and Sega knows it too, Suzuki said so when he had a position at Sega).
-
At the end of the day, I'm sure we're all smart enough to realize Sega aren't who they used to be, but is that a bad thing? If they choose to back smaller mobile titles and release via digital medium, I don't see what the problem is, so long as we can still enjoy their games. As long as they don't turn out like Atari did, I have no problem with it.
-
I suspect if they ever did go under, they'd be a que of companies after the name and it's libraries. Despite the knock it's had, one or two good games under the new owners would easily get gamers back.
-
C'mon, after all this years you know why Sega don't try too often revive a franchise: "fans/media"complaining, people looking for a sale in a new game and ultimately the game didn't sell well or sell bad despite quality and effort.
That's a thing that many developers didn't try anything to do a console port unless they reach a Kickstarter goal.
Even with Steam being so unforgiven with the selection of sales (talk any indie dev about that), PC is good for making something relevant to a certain audience that often buy certain or I say niche titles like the Sega ones which could have great sales quickly, see VC.
I don't trust anybody that come to me and say that a SOR 4/Shenmue 3/ a sequel to certain RPG/Dreamcast game will be a best seller in consoles just because there is "people" who wanna buy that game.
That's a lie from here to China, because they didn't care anything more from Sega unless is a sequel (many they even bother to buy the friggin digital release to make a care of the situation) and in most cases they didn't buy or care anything Sega in years...and the bias of course.
-
At the end of the day, I'm sure we're all smart enough to realize Sega aren't who they used to be, but is that a bad thing? If they choose to back smaller mobile titles and release via digital medium, I don't see what the problem is, so long as we can still enjoy their games. As long as they don't turn out like Atari did, I have no problem with it.
Exactly. I know SEGA is not as great as they were in 2003 or 1999 or 1991, but it really doesn't diminish my fandom. I know the market has changed, and that sucks, but the fact that there are STILL SEGA games releasing that I am excited to play is all I want.
Look, I'm also a big Lucasfilm and The Simpsons fan. I know we will never see Lucasfilm releasing crazy cool shit like Indiana Jones, Star Wars at the level of the OT, and experimental stuff and The Simpsons will never be at the heights that they were in the 90s. But I'm happy for the legacy they had, and that they can still release quality content on occasion (Star Wars moreso than The Simpsons).
Ugh... I can only imagine how shitty it must be to be an Atari fan in 2015...
-
It's probably weird of me to say this on here, but due to all the changes and lack of games they've put out, I don't think I'm anywhere near the Sega fan I used to be. Some of the games they make simple don't interested me anymore (Yakuza/Diva for examples), but every now and then they release something so good I can't help but think how great they can still be.
Sega Racing
Sega Racing Transformed
Sonic Generations
Mickey Mouse Castle of illusion
Dreamcast classics on PC
Alien isolation
I suspect Tembo will be on this list too