SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Moody on June 19, 2015, 10:38:52 am
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Last night I purchased a Sega Saturn and so far it's working great! But I have a lot of questions (there was no manual with this thing), and I figured the best place to ask them would be here. So short and to the point, here are my questions to all Sega Saturn owners here.
- These controllers are really weird. The button placement isn't like anything I've ever seen. I've only played one Saturn game, and it only really uses one button plus the triggers, but I wonder, does this get uncomfortable for other games?
- Is the Spielberg controller compatible with all games, or just a few?
- What does the "Access" button on the console do?
- What is the cartridge input for?
- Are there any alternate video options available? I'm using composite A/V on my HD TV, and the picture quality is fine, but I'm wondering if there's any way to make it a little clearer (I understand that blowing up the picture on old polygonal games can cause issues, but is there a way to remedy this? If not, I can just hook it up to my CRT).
- What games do you guys reccomend? Currently my sights are on Sonic Jam, Burning Rangers, and Panzer Dragoon Zwei, but someone recced me Saturn Bomberman, so are there many other worthwhile games on the Saturn?
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1. Which controller are you referring to? The 3D controller can be used with any of the games, but the analog pad is not supported for all of them. Ideally, use the Japanese model controller (US had their own model and later introduced a US version of the JP pad). It is, by many accounts, one of SEGA's best control pads and one of the best pads of all times. Think of it as an evolution of the Genesis/MD six button pad.
2. I answered that above, also 3D Control Pad is the common term. TBH, I had to look up the Spielberg Controller name because I have never heard of that (maybe I did in the past, but it never is used amongst collectors)
3.You are actually confusing the ACCESS label for the green light as the label for the RESET button. ACCESS refers to the green light which flashes when the drive is accessing the disc.
4. Additional memory and region unblocking. Get a Action Replay 4M Plus pronto for cheat codes, region unblocking, and additional memory! Some games require a 4M cart, but to my knowledge this is JP only.
5. S-video is available. Anything else requires hardware mods.
6.All those are great picks. I'd also get every single AM2 fighter (Megamix, VF, Fighting Vipers) as well as Virtua Cop 1&2, Last Bronx, and some of SEGA's more quirky platformers like Bug! and Clockwork Knight.
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1) What kind of controller do you have?
Is it the USA one (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Sega-Saturn-Controller-Mk-I-NA-FL.jpg) or the Jap one (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Sega_Saturn_Controller_-_Type_2.png)? The US one is a piece of garbage, the Japanese one is one of the finest control pads ever made. It's different to modern layouts, but it's almost perfect for arcade styled games thanks to the 6 button layout and the best D-pad ever created. Even today fighting game players laud the Saturn pad as the single best arcade pad ever created. Nobody has replicated it yet.
It's better suited for some games than others, but stick with it. I used to play it with my right hand with the fingers on top and the thumb underneath (like an arcade machine) so I could press all the buttons easily). Try that if it helps.
2) The analogue works for a few games, but you'd have to google to look up a complete list.
One thing I will recommend is trying out Quake or Duke 3D, and look up the "Jevon's Control Method" cheats. It's a brilliant control option that lets you move with the face buttons and free look with the analogue stick. Years ahead of it's time and the name has a very interesting story behind it. Let me know if you care to know more.
3) I believe Barrington answered this one spot on.
4) As barry said, this had multiple uses. The primary was for the memory carts. Later in the systems life SNK released some games with ROM cartridges (King of Fighters '96, '97 and Metal Slug come to mind). These worked only with the respective games and made then nearly/Arcade Perfect ports.
Even later on, Capcom and Sega developed a 4MB RAM cartridge to boost the Saturn's RAM. For some games it was mandatory (X-Men vs Street fighter did not run without it), others it was optional but made the game run far better (Marvel Super Heroes, Cyberbots etc). I believe you can use this for some USA released games like Marvel Super Heroes (Check the options screen for 'Ram cart' stuff).
I believe the PAL versions did not get this support (running at 50hz instead of 60hz etc).
Most recently there are Action Replay and the like carts which combine memory and RAM boosts, and also provide region unlocking.
5) CRT is the optimal way to enjoy Sega Saturn hardware I believe. CRT displays are best for anything pre-HDMI really. There is a whole slew of reasons for this, but just take my word for it, CRT will look best (unless it's a horrid CRT).
Not to mention if you want to play Virtua Cop (and you do), you need a CRT. Light guns only work on CRT tech.
6) Oh boy, opening a can of worms here. Your and Barry's lists are both very good
Your list:
Sonic Jam
Burning Rangers
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Saturn Bomberman
Barry's List:
AM2 fighters (all godlike games)
Virtua Cop 1&2
Last Bronx,
Bug!
Clockwork Knight
My own suggestions:
Stuff that's ONLY on Saturn:
Panzer Dragoon 1
Panzer Dragoon Saga (If you're rich that is, this game is fucking RARE)
Shining Force III (One of my top 3 games of all time. If you can get the Jap-only Sc.2 and 3 to work, it's one of the best gaming experiences you'll ever have. Try to do that through emulation if you can, but at the very least play Scenario 1!)
Virtual On
Athlete Kings (multiplayer fun)
Steep Slope Sliders
Die Hard Arcade
Games that have had ports/re-releases but you might still want to check out:
Duke 3D/QUAKE (Not as good as PC versions, but these games running on Saturn were a MIRACLE)
Capcom Fighters (I mean, now you can emulate on GGPO/MAME, but Saturn was THE best 2D Fighting console at the time, NOTHING came close)
Guardian Heroes (Also on X360 now)
If the list is too big, I mostly recommend Shining Force III and Panzer Dragoon Saga. Those are two crown jewels in the lineup from my list.
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Oh yeah, I've been thinking of Saturn Quake a lot. The team behind it used a different engine than the actual Quake engine, and it's apparently the best console port there's been. Never played Quake before, but I'd be into playing it on Saturn for sure. Duke 3D...I'll stick to playing the Megaton Edition on Steam.
Panzer Dragoon 1's not really a priority. If I wanna play it, I can just boot up Panzer Dragoon Orta, and since my Xbox is always plugged in, it's not an issue. Everything else I'll have to look into. Might skip the AM2 fighters, simply because I'm not that big a fan of fighting games.
I'll look into keeping this thing hooked up to my CRT once I get Virtua Cop and a light gun. Those are way down the line though.
The pad that came with the controller is definitely the American one, I'll see if I can get a JP one. Also, best not to use that J word you just did. Let's not bring any accidental racism into this.
I have a new question actually; I can't save my games. Or, can I? Basically, when I booted up the Saturn, it gave me the date and time config, standard stuff, and then I made my save file on NiGHTS. Then, the next day, I went through the same thing. Couple hours later, and I still had my saves. A bit after that, they're gone. Does the Saturn temporarily save games, or did I just erase them by accident? If so, does that mean I need that memory block? The Saturn sure didn't come with one.
If that's the case, I'll ask the guy if he still has one, I'm sure he'd give it to me.
Also: the reason I keep calling it the Spielberg controller, is because legend has it, during the development of NiGHTS, Steven Spielberg came by and was the first person to play it. After that, the controller used for it was named after him internally. I think it sounds cooler than 3D Control Pad.
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If you ever played the Wario Ware games and enjoyed them, you like offbeat titles, and you like dancing skeletons, I suggest checking out Mr. Bones, another exclusive. Also, Astal is a lovely 2D platformer. Ooh! And check out the Puyo Puyo imports, especially Sun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB-9YDIjj9E
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The Saturn has an internal battery that it uses for the system clock and some save game storage... sounds like there might be a battery in there on its last legs. It's located in panel on the back left of the console.
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Oh I am all over Mr. Bones. It's become a running joke in one of my friend groups. But should I get the JP version or the NTSC version?? Either way I'll definitely be enjoying it this Halloween. I'll def look into Puyo Puyo, been hearing tons about it.
I just found out what the problem is with the saving: there isn't a battery in there at all! That's...definitely odd(starting to maybe realize why I got this thing so cheap), but I'll absolutely ask about that. Feel like I've seen one in his basement before.
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Sorry in advance for the long repsonses. I'm a huge Saturn fan and it's probably my childhood defining console. :p
Having said that I'm not the most knowledgeable person around but I try to share what I do know.
Oh yeah, I've been thinking of Saturn Quake a lot. The team behind it used a different engine than the actual Quake engine, and it's apparently the best console port there's been. Never played Quake before, but I'd be into playing it on Saturn for sure. Duke 3D...I'll stick to playing the Megaton Edition on Steam.
As I said, Quake and Duke on Saturn are really more curio pieces than must plays. They are much better on PC, but the fact that they worked at all, let alone as good as they were on Saturn is a miracle. The PlayStation and N64 versions were both inferior.
Saturn Quake actually cheated by 'teleporting' enemies to you rather than having them 'roaming' the levels to save on memory. The lighting effects in the games were phenomenal, Duke 3D in particular I think had added lighting from the PC version?
It was done by Lobotomy Software I think, and I think it was using the Slave Driver engine (first used on Powerslave/Exhumed).
Come to think of it, Powerslave/Exhumed is a good game to add to Saturn. There was a PC version, but it's actually a very different game, and the Saturn version is considered the best you can buy.
Panzer Dragoon 1's not really a priority. If I wanna play it, I can just boot up Panzer Dragoon Orta, and since my Xbox is always plugged in, it's not an issue. Everything else I'll have to look into. Might skip the AM2 fighters, simply because I'm not that big a fan of fighting games.
I'll look into keeping this thing hooked up to my CRT once I get Virtua Cop and a light gun. Those are way down the line though.
I didn't even know PD1 was included with Orta, if that's the case, yeah go for Zwei. Zwei is a beautiful and amazing game.
As for the fighters, that's a real shame since Saturn is one of the premier fighting game consoles. The Sega fighters like VF2, Last Bronx and Fighters Megamix are absolute magic. What don't you like about fighting games? Some might still be worth playing for fun. I'm a massive fighting game nut so I gravitated to those.
You might want to check out House of the Dead as well. Bad port, but it's the only way to play HoTD at home I believe. I loved it growing up.
The pad that came with the controller is definitely the American one, I'll see if I can get a JP one. Also, best not to use that J word you just did. Let's not bring any accidental racism into this.
The US pad was quickly phased out and replaced with the other model (they quickly realised the US one was rubbish). You should be able to find one quite easily online.
I have a new question actually; I can't save my games. Or, can I? Basically, when I booted up the Saturn, it gave me the date and time config, standard stuff, and then I made my save file on NiGHTS. Then, the next day, I went through the same thing. Couple hours later, and I still had my saves. A bit after that, they're gone. Does the Saturn temporarily save games, or did I just erase them by accident? If so, does that mean I need that memory block? The Saturn sure didn't come with one.
Umm, this is an odd one. The Saturn did have some internal memory, but as the system is so old it's likely failing. This just means you need to replace the battery. Off hand I can't walk you through it, but it's like a watch battery you can replace.
Easier to just find a memory Cartridge or Action Replay RAM/Memory cartridge online at this point.
Also: the reason I keep calling it the Spielberg controller, is because legend has it, during the development of NiGHTS, Steven Spielberg came by and was the first person to play it. After that, the controller used for it was named after him internally. I think it sounds cooler than 3D Control Pad.
Interesting, I don't think I'd heard that before, although Speilberg controller did ring a bell. I used to know it always as the 'NiGHTS Pad' or 'Analogue Pad'.
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Just texted the guy who sold it to me. Doesn't have a spare battery or a memory cart. Looks like I'm on my own there. Are memory carts cheap?
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Just texted the guy who sold it to me. Doesn't have a spare battery or a memory cart. Looks like I'm on my own there. Are memory carts cheap?
I'd look for something like this, it's what I have:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/EMS-Action-Replay-Plus-4M-Memory-Card-for-SEGA-Saturn-SS-/271521795846?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item3f37f5cf06
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Dang, I don't have thirty bucks on me to burn.
I'm not too concerned with RAM/Region Unlocking yet (I know the true greatness of the Saturn's library lies in the import scene, but I'm not ready to commit to that; I'm not a hardcore collector with tons of money to burn), so for now I just wanna save my games.
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In that case just check ebay for Saturn Memory carts. I believe you can get them super cheap. Alternatively see what kind of battery it is exactly you need and look for one of those.
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Looked on ebay and found some rather skewed prices, but found some RAM carts for less than twenty bucks. RAM carts DO hold game saves, right?
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Looked on ebay and found some rather skewed prices, but found some RAM carts for less than twenty bucks. RAM carts DO hold game saves, right?
Umm, link it here first. I think you are looking at the wrong things.
Are you typing in 'Memory Cartrige Saturn'?
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http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=saturn+memory+cartridge&_sop=15
This is what I searched.
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Just texted the guy who sold it to me. Doesn't have a spare battery or a memory cart. Looks like I'm on my own there. Are memory carts cheap?
The batteries are pretty cheap, should just be a few bucks.
In addition to that, I second Barry's recommendation of the Action Replay 4M Plus - for additional save memory, additional RAM, the ability to play Japanese games, and the ability to use cheat codes.
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Just double checked: the battery IS in there. I just didn't realize what it looked like.
So I guess it is just dying. I'll wait about an hour to see if my info is still saved on it. Really hope so...
Batteries look pretty cheap, but I'll need help replacing it and that's never fun.
EDIT: Triple checked. The memory IS on the battery, according to the BIOS. My guess is the Saturn is just having difficulty reading it. I fiddled around, and found the battery was slightly loose, so I'm gonna assume that's the issue. Will update as I find out.
EDIT 2: Yep, battery's dying. NiGHTS just happens to make data when you boot it, I figured it was saving my profile or something. Battery only keeps data for a few minutes, then it loses it. Shame, looks like I'll have to replace it after all.
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Re: Mr. Bones, go for the US version as it is a US game and I've no idea if the JP one is import friendly. (unless you are not from the US, in that case get whatever region you are)
As for the AM2 fighters, please reconsider! I'll admit to not being a fan of fighting games but... Saturn AM2 fighters will convert you. AM2 has the power to draw most any gamer in to a genre they are uneasy with or dislike. At least get Megamix. Daytona's Hornet fighting anybody is worth the price of admission.
The battery in the back is a CR2032, same as VMU's take. Though the Saturn won't drain them near as fast as a VMU. Just buy a 2 or 4 pack and be set for years, and it only costs a few bucks. But the Action Replay cart is a must.
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I'll see if I can buy some batteries next time we go shopping. The battery read 3 volt, so I assume any old 3 volt dime battery should do. They do sell them at places like Wal-Mart and such right, or would I need to go to a hardware store? It's not an issue either way (I live in Atlanta, so every store you can think of is somewhere around here), but it'd be convienent to pick one up while grocery shopping.
If that's the case you make, I'll consider Megamix. I've seen .gifs of the car in action, and it looks amazing, truly a highlight of the Saturn's library.
Re: why I don't like fighting games bc someone asked: I've just never been able to wrap my head around them. Pulling off combos, learning lists of moves, realizing the nuances of each character, it's too much for me. I just pick someone who looks cool and hope for the best. It doesn't help that fighting games (at least the ones I've played) don't actually show what buttons do things. Combos just say "kick, punch(it's all in the mind), block, snorkle" but never tells me what button to press for each command. Just frustrates me more than anything. And this is after having tried several Soul Calibur games, Skullgirls, Smash, and probably a Street Fighter at some point.
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The beauty of AM2 fighters are their simplicity. Don't let the likes of Street Fighter or DoA or Mortal Kombat sully your impression of the genre. In true AM2 fashion, they manage to present the genre in the most easy to understand ways possible. Punch, kick, guard. That's it. While moves exist, you won't need to memorize lists. Try VF2 or Fighting Vipers (or ideally Megamix) and you'll find some very fun, very easy to get into fighting games. No crazy super moves or magic powers, just pure virtual fighting.
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Honestly, I would get a memory cartridge, unless you don't want to wait for shipping. Each cart holds so much memory you'll never run out, and mine hasn't lost any battery charge in all the years I've had it (do they even take batteries on the cart?).
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sega-Saturn-8-meg-memory-cart-/151718676725?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item23532348f5
I guess it also depends on how much you plan to play the Saturn. Mine was played for like 15 years or something with a big library so it was worth it. If you're only after a handful of games then maybe just find the batteries at Walmart and see how far they carry you first.
If that's the case you make, I'll consider Megamix. I've seen .gifs of the car in action, and it looks amazing, truly a highlight of the Saturn's library.
Re: why I don't like fighting games bc someone asked: I've just never been able to wrap my head around them. Pulling off combos, learning lists of moves, realizing the nuances of each character, it's too much for me. I just pick someone who looks cool and hope for the best. It doesn't help that fighting games (at least the ones I've played) don't actually show what buttons do things. Combos just say "kick, punch(it's all in the mind), block, snorkle" but never tells me what button to press for each command. Just frustrates me more than anything. And this is after having tried several Soul Calibur games, Skullgirls, Smash, and probably a Street Fighter at some point.
Even though I'm the biggest fighting game nut on this board (maybe except inthesky?) If you really really don't like fighters, I don't know if AM2 fighters will convert you, even though they are amongst the best games ever made.
Fighting games do take patience and you need to want to play them. They aren't the kind of game you get much out of just by mashing or diving in without putting in at least a little bit of work. This isn't bashing you, it's just agreeing that not everyone 'gets' them.
As Barry said, AM2 fighters are renowned for their simplicity to start, but very high skill ceiling once you get an understanding. Input buttons are limited to Guard, Punch and Kick, and all moves are combinations of those three or direction inputs + one of them.
If you need to choose only ONE game, go for Fighters Megamix, since it's exclusive to Saturn and probably the most casual friendly. Having said that, Virtua Fighter 2 is far and away the superior game. I would suggest getting that on X360 or PS3 though, which is an arcade perfect port rather than the Saturn port which had a lot of graphical compromises (at the time it still blew away everything though, it was phenomenal).
As I said, VF2 is one of the very best games ever. Not fighting games, but best games ever. At the same time, I don't know if you'll appreciate if you don't like fighting games, which is fine.
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Thank you both very, very much for your help and recommendations. I'll be picking up batteries when I can, and once I start making more money again, I'll be looking into Saturn game prices to decide what to get first. If my library gets big, I'll upgrade to a memory cart, but for now I'm fine with the battery.
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I'll be looking into Saturn game prices
Brace yourself.
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Don't buy a regular Memory Cart, go for the Action Replay 4M.
It allows you to save games, play games that need RAM expansion and play import games (very important in the long run)
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Brace yourself.
Yes but some of the best games don't cost that much.
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Yes but some of the best games don't cost that much.
True, not all the games are super rare, but a lot of Saturn games are pretty pricey.
You can often pick up JPN versions for cheaper than US or PAL too, and most games are pretty light on story and text so it won't matter.
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What Mang said seems to be pretty true. For giggles, I picked up a Japanese copy of NiGHTS, seal-wrapped. It was priced at thirty five dollars. Later on, I found out that regular copies of the game go for only around ten. I was figuring I was getting it with a cheap price attached, but it turned out to be a rip-off. Still love it though.
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What Mang said seems to be pretty true. For giggles, I picked up a Japanese copy of NiGHTS, seal-wrapped. It was priced at thirty five dollars. Later on, I found out that regular copies of the game go for only around ten. I was figuring I was getting it with a cheap price attached, but it turned out to be a rip-off. Still love it though.
Sealed games are worth much more than opened, $35 is quite good for a sealed game that old.
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What Mang said seems to be pretty true. For giggles, I picked up a Japanese copy of NiGHTS, seal-wrapped. It was priced at thirty five dollars. Later on, I found out that regular copies of the game go for only around ten. I was figuring I was getting it with a cheap price attached, but it turned out to be a rip-off. Still love it though.
Well at least you got the spin card . Quite a lot of the better Saturn games can be picked up on the cheap , before you start to go for the more costly games
Get the likes of Die Hard Arcade, X-Men COTA, Exhumed/Powerslave, Mass Destruction, Darius Gaiden, ClockWork Knight II, Pazner Dragoon 1 (its much better than the XBox 'PC' Port) and II , VC 1 and II, WSB 98, Sega Rally , Bug II, Street Racer, AMOK, Astal, Gun Griffon , Dark Saviour, Bomberman for starters
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So I mentioned earlier about the Jevon's control method;
The Official Sega Saturn Magazine is probably the best gaming mag I've ever read. From memory it was pretty highly regarded back in the day, and had excellent scoops, news and features, and the contributors spent a lot of time with developers. Pretty often their names would end up in the credits of games too.
Most notable was Dan Jevons in Lobotomy Software's games. He suggested to the developers the idea of using the analogue pad to simulate 'Mouse look' by using the face buttons to move back and forward and strafe, while using the analogue stick to 'look'. It became known in their games as the "Jevons Controls" and could be accessed via cheat codes.
Mick:
The "Jevons' Method" of controller configuration in the Saturn's version of Quake was reportedly so-called after SSM journo Dan Jevons suggested it at the developer’s offices…
True or False?
Rich:
Yes, Dan was working at GameFan at the time and then moved on to work for a while at Lobotomy so that story is 100% true. We both petitioned hard to get the support into the Lobotomy games as it was the closest Saturn could do to a ‘mouse look’ style of control.
http://www.segasaturn.co.uk/dd/interviews/rich_leadbetter.html (http://www.segasaturn.co.uk/dd/interviews/rich_leadbetter.html)
It was used in Duke Nukem 3D on Saturn as well as Quake. I'm not sure what other games might have used it, but it's essentially the precursor to modern 'Twin stick' controls for FPS games on consoles.
I also wanted to link Moody (and anyone who might be interested) to this issue of SSM, with their run down of what they thought were the top 50 games available for the system. It's good read, and you might find some hidden gems that we've forgotten about!
https://archive.org/stream/Official_Sega_Saturn_Magazine_028/Official_Sega_Saturn_Magazine_028_-_february_1998_UK#page/n55/mode/2up (https://archive.org/stream/Official_Sega_Saturn_Magazine_028/Official_Sega_Saturn_Magazine_028_-_february_1998_UK#page/n55/mode/2up)
Turn to page 55 for the start of the article.
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I should point out that some games from Saturn's later life aren't on that list. Games like Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force III etc would have surely made the top 10 had they been available at the time.
Check future issues for more top games :)
The magazine in itself is a great read even today. Their reviews and showcases were excellent (At least from #16 onwards, which is where I discovered it).
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I think SF III is overrated myself I just like it as the game looks stunning and I like how the III games were all linked, but I much rather Shinning In the Holy Ark myself. Imo Paner Dragoon and Souky are the best games on the Saturn :P
Also while SSM was brilliant and I loved its showcase and interviews, my Fav gaming mag of all time was GameFan .
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This has nothing to do with the Saturn, but I didn't feel like making a new thread since I don't have as many Dreamcast questions I did Saturn questions.
So, first off, I'm trying to burn games for the system (I'm not made of money and my job doesn't exactly pay out frequently), but around half the time the discs just don't end up doing anything. Shenmue, Illbleed, Sonic Adventure, and Jet Grind Radio have all burned perfectly fine, but Space Channel 5, Gauntlet Legends, Zombie Revenge, and ChuChu Rocket have all been non-functional. All except Zombie Revenge DO boot, sort of. The Dreamcst does not recognize them as game discs, but instead as music discs, so I can't play them. Zombie Revenge, however, causes my system to grind like a machine gun repeatedly, hanging on the SEGA screen.
So, basically, why do some games work perfectly while others don't work at all? Is it where I'm getting them? I've only used one ROM site so far. Is it my CD-R's? I bought Memorex brand without realizing they were considered low quality, but if that's the case, why is it so random? Is it just my system?
Also, how come my system beeps when booting some games but not others? I could understand not beeping for my CD-R's, but sometimes it doesn't beep for my legit games either.
(Also if talk of this is forbidden here (I didn't see anything about in the rules when I signed up), let me know and I'll edit the post)
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So, basically, why do some games work perfectly while others don't work at all? Is it where I'm getting them? I've only used one ROM site so far. Is it my CD-R's? I bought Memorex brand without realizing they were considered low quality, but if that's the case, why is it so random? Is it just my system?
I used homemade (burned games) too now for my modded Saturn and Dreamcast, so my original games could be rarely touched and last longer.
I had same problem too (some games work perfectly while others don't work at all), until I got advice to always burn at the slowest speed of 1x or 2x option. Sure it took time, but my problem was solved with that.