SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Trippled on July 26, 2015, 03:48:52 am
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jgJWbG7gCI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jgJWbG7gCI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed1CupqaihU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed1CupqaihU)
So the statements of Sega recently caused discussions at Podcasts, such as GT and KindaFunny.
Well obviously, public opinion at Sega is in the dumpster: "lol Sega still exists", "after 10 years they realize they should make some good games" etc.
Tough I still think its a bit of anomaly that Atlus is held in such high regard...being the only reason why Sega is relevant in home consoles. I mean personally last generation Atlus and Sega were pretty much on equal footing for Japanese style content tbh.
People are going on about Catherine still, that was in 2011. If you feel strongly about Atlus, a small niche publisher, I think you would know Sega has had japanese quality games as well.
Guess goes to show how a bad game of the company mascot can really ruin that companies reputation.
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I've never really liked Gregg Miller and co, and some of the nonsense they're saying just puts the final nail in the coffin. "Sonic was never Mario World" well, duuuhh! Really? That's the point! It's something different.
I know in America Nintendo were the business, but it seems to be a common thing that they wear rose tinted glasses with Nintendo and can't wait to visit the toilet with SEGA.
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People are stupid.
EDIT:
Yes, all of them.
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I don't think we need to give any more attention to these dbags.
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I don't think we need to give any more attention to these dbags.
Gametrailers is actually pretty decent. Don't know about Kinda Funny as I've never watched stuff by them though.
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They were at IGN - and it's better now they're gone - but decided to leave and go to patreon. GT are...better to be fair, but I don't think they really knew what to say on this.
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Have you people been living in a hole? People hate Sega these days.
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Guess goes to show how a bad game of the company mascot can really ruin that companies reputation.
Yeah most of these people are misinformed, some more so than others. I had to point out to some that SEGA isn't the "Only Yakuza and Sonic" company or what x or y persons responsibility was at the company.
General public I don't see much problem in not knowing some of these facts but game journalists should have done a bit of research into their subject matter at least.
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We don't have journalists in the games industry.
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Yeah most of these people are misinformed, some more so than others. I had to point out to some that SEGA isn't the "Only Yakuza and Sonic" company
To be fair, Sega themselves will occasionally release a statement saying things just like this.
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To be fair, Sega themselves will occasionally release a statement saying things just like this.
And Nintendo said they wouldn't have a E3 conference and people took at they wouldn't be at E3. Didn't stop the press from misinterpreting what the company said just like with SEGA's word (Note they never said they would only publish x and y franchises.)
We don't have journalists in the games industry.
This is a sad truth, the ones we do have are really far and few in between.
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I think it was actually the Atlus core fans as well as fans of NIS, Xseed, etc. that didn't feel badly about Sega acquiring Atlus. They know that Sega and Atlus are a natural fit in Japan and a company purchase is something you don't do on a whim without strategy. Just goes to show that game fans are still more informed that mainstream journalists, which is sad.
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Note they never said they would only publish x and y franchises.
No, but they did say they would be focusing heavily on them.
http://www.nowgamer.com/sega-to-cancel-games-sonic-football-manager-total-war-alien-ips-survive/
It's not as if it's up to outlets to find a silver lining in a bleak press release like this. It always amazes me how people here are surprised that Sega's reputation isn't great right now. There's no conspiracy; the output speaks for itself. You can blame people for being ignorant when they use Sonic to gauge the health of a company but people would do the same thing with Nintendo and Mario. Sega needs to learn that some games represent their image more than others.
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Absolutely not. SEGA are currently face down in the gutter. I do take issue with what Colin Moriarty said on that podcast however. It's lazy research and a terribly dismissive attitude towards SEGA's entire existence.
Gaming journalists at work:
(http://babysimpson.co.uk/gallery/frames/15/fabf14/325.jpg)
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No, but they did say they would be focusing heavily on them.
http://www.nowgamer.com/sega-to-cancel-games-sonic-football-manager-total-war-alien-ips-survive/ (http://www.nowgamer.com/sega-to-cancel-games-sonic-football-manager-total-war-alien-ips-survive/)
It's not as if it's up to outlets to find a silver lining in a bleak press release like this.
There's a difference between "We will only produce these particular titles" and "We will produce strong IPs such as x and y" websites literally took it as it meant only Sonic, Total War, Aliens and Football Manager, not that those specific titles are merely an example and other strong titles like Puyo, Yakuza and Phantasy Star would continue. This isn't about finding a silver lining, it's about actually reading and understanding the report, which most of these websites cannot.
To be fair to them they are absolutely atrocious at understanding business and still mix up operating income with net income so it shows you the quality of reporting.
There's no conspiracy; the output speaks for itself. You can blame people for being ignorant when they use Sonic to gauge the health of a company but people would do the same thing with Nintendo and Mario. Sega needs to learn that some games represent their image more than others.
As I said, it is fine if it's the joe public, this isn't their job and holding uninformed opinion of something that may or may not interest them is nothing to slate them on.
However I pointed out the press should be above this and actually do the job their paid to do.
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It really is game journalists perpetuating this idea that SEGA is a total bumfuck of a company with no redeeming qualities, and then the people who read them spread that idea without really thinking of it. I think most sensible consumers have, at most, an indifferent opinion about current-day SEGA. There's a definite stigma toward them, but the only people supporting that stigma are journalists who like to complain about Sonic.
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It really is game journalists perpetuating this idea that SEGA is a total bumfuck of a company with no redeeming qualities, and then the people who read them spread that idea without really thinking of it. I think most sensible consumers have, at most, an indifferent opinion about current-day SEGA. There's a definite stigma toward them, but the only people supporting that stigma are journalists who like to complain about Sonic.
Most of the stigma comes from American "journalists" who have a nostalgia for Nintendo and were definitely Nintendo kids growing up. There's the root of the problem.
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It really is game journalists perpetuating this idea that SEGA is a total bumfuck of a company with no redeeming qualities, and then the people who read them spread that idea without really thinking of it. I think most sensible consumers have, at most, an indifferent opinion about current-day SEGA. There's a definite stigma toward them, but the only people supporting that stigma are journalists who like to complain about Sonic.
So the same as the Saturn was out, the same when Dreamcast was out. SEGA always had to battle people, even when people considered them 'amazing' (us fans), there was still the main opinion of them not being as good as Nintendo and 'when will this fail'.
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Is it fair to assume you're from America George? Because here in the UK, SEGA are still quite liked and Nintendo don't get such an easy pass from people. That's not to say people don't like them and they don't make good games, but I don't think we see the usual biased opinions as much here.
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It really is game journalists perpetuating this idea that SEGA is a total bumfuck of a company with no redeeming qualities, and then the people who read them spread that idea without really thinking of it. I think most sensible consumers have, at most, an indifferent opinion about current-day SEGA. There's a definite stigma toward them, but the only people supporting that stigma are journalists who like to complain about Sonic.
People are still misinformed about what developing Sonic means too. I come across message board replies where people think Sonic blocks development of everything or that they have no budget to do anything but Sonic when one gets announced.
Furthermore, I also hear incredibly demanding requests while insulting them. "Remake the whole Phantasy Star saga with PSO2 graphics, but you won't do it because you are stupid and force Sonic down our throats" something like that.
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Also, Sega is bankrupt, although the group owns multiple hotels etc
And my favorite "the GameGear was a complete failure". Although it sold more than the WiiU in less time on the market.
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Guys. You're living in a fantasy world. Sega hasn't been compared to nintendo since the late 90s. Also the Dreamcast was a critical darling over here in the states and is oft mentioned as one of the most underrated consoles of all time by American bloggers. People love Sega at their best, and find them anemic today. That's all there is to it.
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Exactly. There's a stigma about them today, that's what we're discussing. Even the "industry people" that rail SEGA now will sometimes admit they like the Dreamcast, maybe partly because it was actually good, but I'd imagine mostly because it's the cool thing to do.
And people don't compare SEGA to Nintendo today? Have you seen any SEGA articles done by journalists?
The problem is that people want SEGA to get better but then won't give any of their current output a chance and just continue complaining when SEGA continue to not be as great as they once were. I can understand you being frustrated with them if you follow their work and output, like we do, but for the majority of people outside the SEGA fanbase, that's just not true.
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The problem is that people want SEGA to get better but then won't give any of their current output a chance and just continue complaining when SEGA continue to not be as great as they once were. I can understand you being frustrated with them if you follow their work and output, like we do, but for the majority of people outside the SEGA fanbase, that's just not true.
Basically. I'm tired of people looking for some "gold material" with any company even if their a niche at their bottom. Even worse when they want something like the 90's or any decade with the same input in this time...how that works?
False fans response is what gives me the reason. I see a lot, I mean, A LOT of re-release of obscure/cult classic/old licensed games in the last gen and did they give a single thank you? No, they complain about not making the true sequel and didn't spend the 8/15 bucks for the goddamn digital game. How that's a response....oh..I know, they wait to buy it in a sale...
Man, F2P and Mobile Games was a no-brainer to the devs Witt this situation.
Anyway, here's our favourite CM doing the good:
https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/625721365736329216?s=09 (https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/625721365736329216?s=09)
SHOTS FIRED.
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Colin Moriarty has really cheesed me off with his comments. He clearly came across as someone who actually was a Nintendo fanboy back in the day. His whole Ihad a Dreamcast so I'm allowed thing was just nonsense.
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Colin Moriarty has really cheesed me off with his comments. He clearly came across as someone who actually was a Nintendo fanboy back in the day. His whole Ihad a Dreamcast so I'm allowed thing was just nonsense.
Amazed he considered the Master System a failure (It's not, SEGA considered it a success.) and conveniently forgot the Game Gear (Another console that was considered successful.) It's amazing how misinformed these journalists are but the way some of them go on about the PSP being a failure too shows you how little grip on reality vs hype.
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To UK people. I'm so jealous of your Sega accepting societies. North America is/was and probably always will be nintendo fanboy central.
All of the gaming press opinions from here are from that slant. Stick around on any gaming website long enough and they'll eventually put out a video where they bash Master System/Game Gear/Genesis because their Ninty fanboyism comes out in their discussions. I hate it. Gamespot, Ign, Kotaku (they don't even hide it) all do it. Fuck them all.
And of course they pander to that same sentiment. The comment sections are the worst.
"When is Nintendo going to buy Sega?"
"Why doesn't Nintendo just buy Sega?"
Ughhh. A part of me dies every time I hear that.
It's so weird. Does the UK gaming press insult the NES and Super NES? I seriously don't know and I suspect that retro console bashing is a NA phenomenon.
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USA is the only place in the world, AAA games are the only things that matter, games that aren't very known and are mid tier shoudn't exist just make it all indie. Also I can't discover anything on my own, despite me peing paid by the public to do "quasi" journalistic job.
KindaFunnyGames in a nutshell. Also they interact with Yoshida dont they? Come on man, up your know-how about things
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And of course they pander to that same sentiment. The comment sections are the worst.
"When is Nintendo going to buy Sega?"
"Why doesn't Nintendo just buy Sega?"
Now I think about it, this is the go-to response for every moment a company messes up or post losses. Replace Sega with Capcom or Konami for example.
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Ya from America too.
To UK people. I'm so jealous of your Sega accepting societies. North America is/was and probably always will be nintendo fanboy central.
All of the gaming press opinions from here are from that slant. Stick around on any gaming website long enough and they'll eventually put out a video where they bash Master System/Game Gear/Genesis because their Ninty fanboyism comes out in their discussions. I hate it. Gamespot, Ign, Kotaku (they don't even hide it) all do it. Fuck them all.
And of course they pander to that same sentiment. The comment sections are the worst.
"When is Nintendo going to buy Sega?"
"Why doesn't Nintendo just buy Sega?"
Ughhh. A part of me dies every time I hear that.
It's so weird. Does the UK gaming press insult the NES and Super NES? I seriously don't know and I suspect that retro console bashing is a NA phenomenon.
Yep. I hate the USA market especially the Nintendo fans that rewrite history. You should see how many of them actually think that the N64 was a 'massive' success for Nintendo and how SEGA, like always failed with the Saturn. Technically speaking the Saturn was a bigger failure than the N64 (no shit), but to call the N64 a success at the time would be telling people "How does it feel that instead of owning the world market in video games you guys did really well in America and your console bombed everywhere else?"
Technically speaking the Saturn did really well for itself in Japan, better than most other consoles did. If anyone was a winner that generation it was Sony with SEGA and Nintendo being the big 'losers', I would even say SNES was a 'loser' compared to Genesis by just giving up over 50% of its market.
But hey, what do I know. I guess success = whatever you liked playing as a kid.
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I hate the USA market especially the Nintendo fans that rewrite history. You should see how many of them actually think that the N64 was a 'massive' success for Nintendo and how SEGA, like always failed with the Saturn.
The N64 had a decrease of 3 million from the SNES before it, it wasn't a massive success in America either and continued the slow decline of Nintendo's relevance in Western console market until the Wii.
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To answer your question about if the UK press bash Nintendo. No. They only bash whoever they are when they deserve it from what I've seen. They bashed Nintendo mid Wii cycle for being an overpriced paper weight, and the Wii u for existing...that seems fair enough really.
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To answer your question about if the UK press bash Nintendo. No. They only bash whoever they are when they deserve it from what I've seen. They bashed Nintendo mid Wii cycle for being an overpriced paper weight, and the Wii u for existing...that seems fair enough really.
Thank you. Was genuinely curious about that. Since I'm on the wrong side of North American gaming press bias, I notice their lack of objectivity a lot.
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I guess success = whatever you liked playing as a kid.
Yup, this is the sentiment that drives opinion in North American gaming press.
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To be fair, Sega's games often had very high marks from 1999 - 2003. And generally when a good game does come along, the reviews are good. VC was a critical darling wasn't it?
I will say that I thought Sega's output has improved dramatically in the last few years, though. It's a bit on the slow side, but I imagine they'll pick up speed as we move forward in the next gen.
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SoJ is slow, but the rest aren't. Games do just take about 2/3 years to make.
On the gaming media, I've pretty much given up on them. They're a joke anyway and thinking about it more, I've stopped using them for quite some time now. If I see a game I'm interested in, I'll youtube clips, get opinions from others on forums etc and just take a gamble on it and form my own opinion.
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Yeah, but SOJ is probably the reason most of us are here. Football Manager, Total War and so on are nice icing on the cake, but I doubt many people on the forum are here because of them.
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Not sure how much major console productions will pick up speed, look at the length of time it's taken Konami to release Metal Gear Solid V, Square with Final Fantasy XV and Capcom with the likes of Deep Down. Western developers do have this issue too, The Witcher 3 and Batman: Arkham Knight took some 3 years to develop?
Think people take for granted how long it takes to make games now thanks to yearly releases (Which is only possible because they rotate between teams in that period so the games still get 2 - 3 years of development time.) I'd rather we get more mid-tier games at this point, there's a serious lack of software for consoles this generation. I expect this to continue with SoJ, major games like Sonic will probably get 3 years development time and they might even expand Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio to get a third team working on it if that series will continue it's yearly tradition.
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Yeah, but SOJ is probably the reason most of us are here. Football Manager, Total War and so on are nice icing on the cake, but I doubt many people on the forum are here because of them.
SOJ probably knows that they are the actual Sega brand, not Creative Assembly, Atlus etc.
Which is why they critized themselfs for the brand value in the west.
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Yeah, but SOJ is probably the reason most of us are here. Football Manager, Total War and so on are nice icing on the cake, but I doubt many people on the forum are here because of them.
Which is odd, as the West output has been far better in recent times.
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Not sure how much major console productions will pick up speed, look at the length of time it's taken Konami to release Metal Gear Solid V, Square with Final Fantasy XV and Capcom with the likes of Deep Down. Western developers do have this issue too, The Witcher 3 and Batman: Arkham Knight took some 3 years to develop?
Think people take for granted how long it takes to make games now thanks to yearly releases (Which is only possible because they rotate between teams in that period so the games still get 2 - 3 years of development time.) I'd rather we get more mid-tier games at this point, there's a serious lack of software for consoles this generation. I expect this to continue with SoJ, major games like Sonic will probably get 3 years development time and they might even expand Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio to get a third team working on it if that series will continue it's yearly tradition.
Very fair, but I think part of the problem is the big games are always the same from SOJ. They really shouldn't have two teams doing Sonic and two teams doing RGG and so on. They've hit a point of diminishing returns and I think the money they're making from mobile and PC should afford them the opportunity to take risks again - or at the very least to do something different.
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Which is odd, as the West output has been far better in recent times.
yeah, but most people (on this forum anyway) have probably been Sega fans since the 90s or before. Not many people became Sega fans after about 2005, have they?
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Not many people became Sega fans after about 2005, have they?
I only got into SEGA's stuff back in 2012, and it was all because they put out re-releases and started pushing for the platform I care most about, the PC. Before then, I barely gave a crap, and now I've got a Genesis and Saturn sitting proudly next to my TV. While I can't say for everyone, I might be the exception, not the rule, but I think SEGA is definitely capable of making new fans.
I know SOJ has more than a few teams, it's just that most of them don't output much that we care for. AM2 still makes arcade games, but most don't leave Japan, and they release those awesome 3D classics, what used to be Smilebit makes Mario and Sonic at the Olympics, and UGA are now part of Sonic Team, so they still make games.
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I only got into SEGA's stuff back in 2012, and it was all because they put out re-releases and started pushing for the platform I care most about, the PC. Before then, I barely gave a crap, and now I've got a Genesis and Saturn sitting proudly next to my TV. While I can't say for everyone, I might be the exception, not the rule, but I think SEGA is definitely capable of making new fans.
I know SOJ has more than a few teams, it's just that most of them don't output much that we care for. AM2 still makes arcade games, but most don't leave Japan, and they release those awesome 3D classics, what used to be Smilebit makes Mario and Sonic at the Olympics, and UGA are now part of Sonic Team, so they still make games.
But those were the rereleases that made you a fan, not brand new output, right? More germane, you probably didn't start playing Virtua Fighter or whatever you will, because of Football Manager or the Western output Tad was referencing.
I probably should have phrased myself better.
That Smilebit makes the Mario and Sonic games is arguably more offensive than Camelot making Mario Golf or Tennis or whatever it is that they've been whoring themselves out to make for Nintendo. Mario and Sonic should be outsourced if anything should.
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But those were the rereleases that made you a fan, not brand new output, right? More germane, you probably didn't start playing Virtua Fighter or whatever you will, because of Football Manager or the Western output Tad was referencing.
Well if you wanna get technical, what truly got me into SEGA was Sonic Generations, which was still relatively new when I bought it (it was only a year old). That was the gateway, and the thing that solidified it was Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed, which was only a few months old when I bought it (I got the PC version, which came out in early 2013, after every other version). So technically speaking, I did get into SEGA through its newer output.
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That Smilebit makes the Mario and Sonic games is arguably more offensive than Camelot making Mario Golf or Tennis or whatever it is that they've been whoring themselves out to make for Nintendo. Mario and Sonic should be outsourced if anything should.
Dont know where people always get this? Its untrue...Mario & Sonic was made by people who did sports games at Sega in the past a.k.a. Sports Jam, Decathlete etc.
Anywho Sega of Japan still puts out stuff on the handhelds and arcade that is neat and different. Tough on the console front, Yakuza is pretty much the limit due to dev costs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tripple-ddd/sandbox2#Developed_18
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Dont know where people always get this? Its untrue...Mario & Sonic was made by people who did sports games at Sega in the past a.k.a. Sports Jam, Decathlete etc.
Yes but some keys developers,engineers and designers from Smilebit went to Sports M&D in 2004, specially the part who made those simlation sports ones.
The rest went to Amusement Vision and take part of CS1 R&D after.
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Yes but some keys developers,engineers and designers from Smilebit went to Sports M&D in 2004, specially the part who made those simlation sports ones.
The rest went to Amusement Vision and take part of CS1 R&D after.
Looking at credits, I see a good amount of people that took part of Beach Spiker, Sports Jam, Virtua Striker etc. Sports sims take different development capability I think. And none of the people that made Hundred Swords, Jet Set Radio, GunValkyrie, Panzer have made sports games.
Sports R&D only existed for a year or so, after that all the Mario & Sonic were made in a anonymous Sega of Japan group (either CS1 or CS3 not sure)
Alot of people who made Kingdom Conquest and subsequent mobile games are from Smilebit actually too.
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Smilebit developed some Sports games like Pro Soccer or Derby series between 1999-2003.
Sports R&D made both the M&S Olympics and Pro Soccer games from 2004 onwards.
The last JP Pro Soccer manager was released in 2013 for the PS3.and PSVita and was maded by Sports R & D.
It's possible also that the Soccer mobile app released in 2014 was maded by them just like Kingdom Conquest was maded by ex-former Smilebit employees.
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Well if you wanna get technical, what truly got me into SEGA was Sonic Generations, which was still relatively new when I bought it (it was only a year old). That was the gateway, and the thing that solidified it was Sonic and All-Stars Racing Transformed, which was only a few months old when I bought it (I got the PC version, which came out in early 2013, after every other version). So technically speaking, I did get into SEGA through its newer output.
Fair enough. I stand corrected.
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I only got into SEGA's stuff back in 2012, and it was all because they put out re-releases and started pushing for the platform I care most about, the PC. Before then, I barely gave a crap, and now I've got a Genesis and Saturn sitting proudly next to my TV. While I can't say for everyone, I might be the exception, not the rule, but I think SEGA is definitely capable of making new fans.
I know SOJ has more than a few teams, it's just that most of them don't output much that we care for. AM2 still makes arcade games, but most don't leave Japan, and they release those awesome 3D classics, what used to be Smilebit makes Mario and Sonic at the Olympics, and UGA are now part of Sonic Team, so they still make games.
My heart is warmed. You are the rarest of creatures.
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Another "great" moment from the gaming media has just happened. Rock paper shotgun have reviewed the new Kings quest game and some of the stuff he mentions doesn't even happen in the game...