SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Nirmugen on September 18, 2015, 03:45:58 pm
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An Eurogamer reporter has confirmed this news at the same time when an important European Konami dev leaves the company.
My worst fears are becoming true and I think this is only the beginning of the end.
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The end started a long time ago and that was when the Konami developer exodus started around 2 years ago and reached its climax with Kojima Production's being absorbed. This is just the fallout.
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Yeah, no surprise. They're turning their back on everything that made them. When the mobile market dies down (and it will, eventually), I hope they land flat on their face.
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Hum, you think that the mobile market is going to die down? It won't. Phones are getting bigger and better, more people everyday in America are spending more time on their phones. I know some people here point to stories about 'big app devs' firing employees, thats because most of these people haven't brought out a worthwhile app in like 5 years (see Fruit Ninjas).
Face facts, people in Japan are not going to stop buying mobile phones until some other new invention comes out to make them obsolete. There is no incentive for Japanese people (who already all left consoles and 80%+ gamers there are on mobile) to leave mobile and rebuy a 400+ dollar machine just to play games.
That makes no sense.
Konami isn't leaving consoles and PC because they are making more money on other avenues. They are leaving consoles and PC because production costs keep rising and they aren't selling enough units to keep that branch profitable. Outside of MGS, no one in the world gives too much of a shit about Konami. Think about it, mainstream media didn't call out Konami on their bullshit practices until the whole Kojima drama, literaly them fucking over developers for years was swept under the rug.
I think its less 'they turned their back' and more gamers just stopped buying their games. Do you think those 2D Metrovania style Castlevania games where doing great? How about those great Contra titles they did that bombed super hard? Kinda hard to stay in a market where your IPs keep bombing.
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Eventually, yes. We're already seeing once big companies fall here in the west due to the sheer volume of apps overcrowding the stores. As for the triple A production costs, I agree. They're too high, but simply turning away because of that is quite frankly, a dumb idea. The triple A market is shrinking and the indie scene is getting far better and in my opinion, a much stronger part of the industry now. There's no reason why they couldn't produce their games without breaking the bank. Focus on certain elements and stick with that as a design philosophy.
Also, as good as the Fox engine is, why? Konami have about 3 games that are still relevant against the triple A market and developing an engine costs millions of pounds/dollars. It makes sense for EA as they'll use it throughout this gen on multiple projects (EA Sports/ frostbite for SW:Battlefront, Battlefield etc), but not Konami. Even Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony use unreal etc instead for their games.
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But this is the same issue on the console gaming side of things as well, only that you have to pump 20+ million to impress with your triple AAA games. Are you saying no one is going out of business in the console side?
I find it hilarious cuz in the early 90's a bunch of people where always saying that console gaming would be dead in a few years, then the same thing with PC gaming.
Problem is, its not. Mobile gaming is growing yearly, will it eventually slow down? Sure, but it won't go away.
You are saying that its dying cuz some companies can't compete against other companies. This happens all the time, look at all the failed consoles in the 90's/early 2000's. SEGA lost more money than any of these app makers will ever lose.
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I didn't say die. I said dies down (as in, slows down). Once it does, I doubt Konami will be looking at it so blindly as to put all their eggs in one basket. Not even SEGA are that dumb. The mobile market is incredibly tough to break into now with the sheer volume of tat on their markets. Here in the UK, we're already seeing it slow down as people aren't being stupid enough to buy microtransactions. They're quite happy to just wait and play something else instead of paying to speed time up in one game.
As for the console market back in the late 90s or early 00s, it was inevitable that certain studios would fail to make the jump sadly. As hardware and software improve, the mentality back then was your game had to be BIG. It's only recently we've seen that not being true really with the rise of the indie scene - which, in my view, has become the center piece of the industry now. While the indie scene bring out a mix of retro, new or just different, the old slow machine that is the triple A market, sticks to focus testing their way to the usual bland checklist of requirements.
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Should be pointed out that this is still just a rumor and not actually something we know for sure.
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Konami sucks anyway.
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They weren't the worse, I think if Metal Gear Solid never existed and got the funding it did, no one in the West would have given too much of a shit about Konami dying. Honestly, western gamers never admit that the reason they buy games is due to how much advertising money is spent in effort for them to buy it (not that it will be a quality product).
This is a rumor, but honestly... why is it bad that they aren't going to be spending 20+ million per product? That isn't sustainable... why not good mid-tier budget games that are fun to play? Its funny people here talking about how hard it is to break into the mobile market, when its a cake walk compared to breaking into the AAA games market.
Outside of MGS, Konami has failed at all their other AAA games being mainstream for one reason or another.
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Dropping out of the triple A market doesn't bother me (or anyone else I suspect) as such, but dropping out of the console market entirely as suspected is where I think the issue is. The problem I think is one of mentality. They seem to think that every project needs to be big in order to see a return, but it's simply not true, plenty of smaller projects have come along and done perfectly well.
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I think the issue here is people are 'pretending they know' what they are talking about. Didn't SEGA drop out of the console market 6 months ago? IGN, Kotaku, Gamespot all posted fake stories about it.... yet they announced like 6 console games at TGS.
Maybe Konami will, but I think a lot of people need to read the actual information being given out by companies instead of listening to site's clickbait titles.
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True, but I don't think it's a bad assumption going on all the movements and reports we're seeing.
If true, despite how badly managed Konami is, it would be a shame to see another company go instead of adapting to the market.
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I'm just thinking.. Aside from MGS, and PES, Konami doesn't have any AAA games
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http://www.siliconera.com/2015/09/21/konami-says-they-wont-stop-developing-aaa-titles-including-mgs-and-silent-hill/
Konami made a statement, supposedly not pulling out of AAA console games.
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Oh, mainstream gaming sites jumping the gun again and assuming the worse? Are we really surprised? Tho the term AAA is just a misleading title IMO.
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Its funny people here talking about how hard it is to break into the mobile market, when its a cake walk compared to breaking into the AAA games market.
I would say the Mobile is harder as it so crowded and the time and is like months before the team need to find the next hit and follow up.
I think the issue here is people are 'pretending they know' what they are talking about.
You just look at the output . I mean SONY still make out they support the Vita in the West , when we all know its pretty much a dead platform over here and you may be able to point to likes of EA still making the odd game here and there for it , but its half hearted really. Same goes for 3rd party support for the Wii U or MS in Japan with the Xbox One . We all know MS don't really give a crap about Japan not matter what they , but some could point out they still bring out games and Hardware in Japan .
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Oh, mainstream gaming sites jumping the gun again and assuming the worse? Are we really surprised? Tho the term AAA is just a misleading title IMO.
Konami saying that they're totally making AAA games from 30 series doesn't really syncs with anyone when they're literally cancelling every AAA games they were working on and not making anything else while shitting out Pachinko and slot machines from the same series they say they're totally making games out.
Konami sucks, it's not weird to assume the worst considering how they're entering this generation. They fucked Metal Gear Solid 5 (Although I attribute the fault equally to Kojima) and there's no reason to believe some low level PR bullshit, especially when their new CEO is all about preaching for mobile. They're pretty much dead and frankly, we're better off without them.
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They canceled one game from a director that left the company and now that means they canceled everything? Also TA talking about how its harder to get into the mobile market than AAA console games?
Great. I thought people are suppose to post logically. So TA, spending 80+ million dollars to make MGS5 and having to sell 6 million units JUST TO BREAK EVEN, not counting marketing, is easy for developers instead of making 10 mobile apps for 1 million and if one succeeds it makes 500k a day?
Also (according to you) the AAA industry isn't crowded? There are only 35 million PS4/Xbone... how many phones are there?
Sorry dude, your math just doesn't add up. Nice living in a fairy tale world.
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They canceled one game from a director that left the company and now that means they canceled everything? Also TA talking about how its harder to get into the mobile market than AAA console games?
Zone of Enders 3 was shitcanned. Silent Hills was shitcanned. P.T was bizarrely removed from PSN. Contra's dead. Gradius' dead. Suikoden's dead. Love Plus is dead. Castlevania's dead. Most if not all of the creators/series key members have left the company due to a complete apathy to core gaming, as said by all of them, most prolific of those being Iga, who said during his kickstarter campaign that he was relegated into making mobile shit while Konami shitcanned all of the said mobile shit because they felt too much like "core games".
All while crapping out Silent Hill, Castlevania, PES, Metal Gear and even Gradius casino shit.
It's fucking dead, dude. Most people don't even want AAA games from Konami, they'd rather have smaller scale games for Castlevania, Suikoden and Gradius, I know I would, but Konami also doesn't give a shit about because that doesn't bring the mad bucks. And they're warm and cozy making money with their gyms and whatever.
I don't even care that Kojima fucked MGS 5's development by making it open world and hemorrhaging money, that's not the point. Pointing out that Konami had a financial point in releasing MGS 5 fucked as it was or that the AAA industry is bloated as all hell doesn't automatically mean that Konami actually give a shit about games. Square Enix is probably retarded for keeping FF Versus 13 alive for so long but their brand has been at its most absolute highest in about a decade almost all because of that one game. Someone in that company is willing to spend cash to put games out.
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I can't put the best results from Squeenix either.
I shouldn't say this as a fact but I see some "Throwing everything until something makes that hit that we need it right now" behavior recently from them.
I mean, throwing a big remake now in between many big releases and you have a lot to look/worry about.
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You just named 4 games, most of which where rumored and not really announced. So you think it would be smart to put in 20 million plus on a Silent Hill game when the highest selling title for that franchise has been part 2 that did like under 3 million units like 14 years ago?
If it was cancelled it was probably due to the fact that Kojima spends too much freaking money on shit that doesn't matter. Do you think people didn't want David Hayter as Big Boss and instead wanted Jack from 24? David Hyater is cheaper, makes no sense. Why have a Hollywood director when Kojima can direct a game JUST FINE (Silent Hills)? Does the game really need Norman Reedus as the main character?
There is more to Kojima's projects cancellations and its not just "LOL KONAMI IS DEED LOL" In the end of the day, you can't substain AAA games when Japanese games are becoming niche franchises. Japan moving to mobile has hurt its games industry. They would have been fine dealing with American/Eurpean rise of indies and AAA devs if Japanese people bought more console games. 1.7 million PS4's sold in Japan (and like 2 Xbones) shows you why many Japanese games are cutting back on console games and people are mad, literally, that this Japanese company isn't spending millions of dollars on a Silent Hill game that has a niche fanbase?
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I would also add, that Kojima is also responsible for some really weird stuff inappropriately placed in his games too. I'm not sure who should get the credit for P.T, but I must admit it's the first horror game that did exactly what it's suppose too; scare you!
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Yeah, but how much of PT's success was because of Kojima? For all we know the majority of the ideas that made the Demo great were because of Del Toro.
Square Enix is probably retarded for keeping FF Versus 13 alive for so long but their brand has been at its most absolute highest in about a decade almost all because of that one game. Someone in that company is willing to spend cash to put games out.
Not necessarily true. One could argue that SE having brought in Eidos is what saved their ass. While they were bleeding money on shit FF games, reimagined Tomb Raider and Deus Ex games are what kept them going.
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I suspect so. The puzzles (mainly the jigsaw on the screen) was pretty bad, so that what probably Kojima mind :)
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You just named 4 games, most of which where rumored and not really announced.
All of them were officially announced and officially canceled, dude. Press reports, the works.
Yeah, but how much of PT's success was because of Kojima? For all we know the majority of the ideas that made the Demo great were because of Del Toro.
Del Toro didn't touch P.T. He was only spitballing ideas with Kojima about Silent Hills. P.T was actually made by a small team that was composed by former Team Silent members.
Not necessarily true. One could argue that SE having brought in Eidos is what saved their ass. While they were bleeding money on shit FF games, reimagined Tomb Raider and Deus Ex games are what kept them going.
Square Enix mismanaged the hell out of Eidos at the beginning. Thi4f was crap, Lara Croft was a Uncharted clone and only turned a profit with 6 million fucking copies, Absolution is the absolute worse Hitman game of the series. Legacy of Kain was turned into a shitty moba that somehow manages to contradict the lore. Human Revolution was the only good game (Great, actually) of the first wave of games. They've only started to showcase a bunch of awesome looking games now, Just Cause 3 seems like the only FUN open world game of this generation, Rise of Tomb Raider, The new Hitman looks amazing and the new Deux Ex looks like the best of the bunch.
Anyway, people that play Eidos games don't give a shit about Square Enix and people that play Square Enix games don't give a shit about Eidos. I think it's more due to the fact that Square Enix is turning its image around by pushing console gaming so much in a mobile infested market. Nier 2 (Niche as all fuck. Happening anyway), the way they've done a complete 180ยบ to the shitstain that was the original FF14 to the second most popular MMO out there (Subscription based and everything), Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy 7 remake, FF15 gathering massive amounts of hype. They're just announcing games all over the place. Both western and eastern. Both mainstream and niche. They're pretty cool right now, man.
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http://www.destructoid.com/metal-gear-solid-v-s-opening-day-beats-jurassic-world-avengers-combined-315459.phtml (http://www.destructoid.com/metal-gear-solid-v-s-opening-day-beats-jurassic-world-avengers-combined-315459.phtml)
Konami was clearly losing bank by investing on Kojima.