SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Trippled on November 13, 2015, 11:25:17 am
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http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/library/pdf/printing_annual/2015/all_ar2015_e.pdf (http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/library/pdf/printing_annual/2015/all_ar2015_e.pdf)
Honestly, a lot of it is corporate fluff (or plain uninterresting to me). I've been reading alot of reports recently, and alot of it is "we will change", "we changed our operations this way" every single damn time. I will never understand the corporate world.
Anywho, interresting point I have dug out.
Sega Sammy is over 90 companies appearently. Journalists need to understand the concept of conglomerates, before taking the entire Sega Sammy company as just Sega of America/Europe. Either way, other points.
Sonic is over 335 million if we include every download and purchased copy. This means that 150 million people have purchased a Sonic game, while more than than the other half has merely downloaded a F2P game.
Yakuza is at 8.6 million, meaning over 1 million are from some type of digital SKU or phone game
There has been some concerns what the reduction of arcade development means. Turns out this means transferring people into the casino division, specifically the mechatronics specialist. So no firing spress of the VF team or something. Also there layoffs in the toy area,
Also Marza Animation Planet had some plans about producing and marketing movies in-house. These plans were scrapped, they will just partner from now on (nothing really changes).
The new Sega Games is the core of Sega Sammy's business aside from pachinko (and in the future potential casino and restors), seems as tough arcade is down to toy/animation level of importance (no surprise).
In the 2015 fiscal, performance in the digital game area amounts to 8.0 billion profits. Packaged game sales lost 2.7 billion, arcade sales 3.9 billion, 1.9 billions were lost in animation/toy.
However turn to Page 47 if you want to see Haruki Satomi speak again:
It talks about Sega Games approach. It once again recognizes worldwide PS4 sales, and the success of the Chinese version of Yakuza 0. They want to take this example and roll out titles in multiple languages across the world again.
They talk about the Sega brand. Its an interresting text. It says in the past Sega was dedicated to bring new experiences to the world using their latest and greatest assets. However during the slump of the 2000's it describes that this lead to weakness. It says that the motto has been changed to delivering experiences to fans primarily.
This also is in-line with the approach of budgets it says: "However, we do not intend to try matching major overseas publishers who initially invest tens of billions of yen (that like five dollars rite) in a single title. While keeping costs at an appropriate level, we will combine rollouts of packaged game software and digitally distributed or downloaded content to establish a business model that generates earnings reliably."
This all falls is line with the "we have learned from Atlus" comment of recent".
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They're talking the talk, but we need to see the walk.
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Every time I hear another quote about returning to quality and fan focus I feel as though it's more a set in stone approach and less PR noise. I'm also totally fine with then no spanking million on a single game... A really good quality game doesn't need a huge budget, it just needs a good concept and quality.
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http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/library/pdf/printing_annual/2015/all_ar2015_e.pdf (http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/library/pdf/printing_annual/2015/all_ar2015_e.pdf)
Honestly, a lot of it is corporate fluff (or plain uninterresting to me). I've been reading alot of reports recently, and alot of it is "we will change", "we changed our operations this way" every single damn time. I will never understand the corporate world.
Anywho, interresting point I have dug out.
Sega Sammy is over 90 companies appearently. Journalists need to understand the concept of conglomerates, before taking the entire Sega Sammy company as just Sega of America/Europe. Either way, other points.
Sonic is over 335 million if we include every download and purchased copy. This means that 150 million people have purchased a Sonic game, while more than than the other half has merely downloaded a F2P game.
Yakuza is at 8.6 million, meaning over 1 million are from some type of digital SKU or phone game
There has been some concerns what the reduction of arcade development means. Turns out this means transferring people into the casino division, specifically the mechatronics specialist. So no firing spress of the VF team or something. Also there layoffs in the toy area,
Also Marza Animation Planet had some plans about producing and marketing movies in-house. These plans were scrapped, they will just partner from now on (nothing really changes).
The new Sega Games is the core of Sega Sammy's business aside from pachinko (and in the future potential casino and restors), seems as tough arcade is down to toy/animation level of importance (no surprise).
In the 2015 fiscal, performance in the digital game area amounts to 8.0 billion profits. Packaged game sales lost 2.7 billion, arcade sales 3.9 billion, 1.9 billions were lost in animation/toy.
However turn to Page 47 if you want to see Haruki Satomi speak again:
It talks about Sega Games approach. It once again recognizes worldwide PS4 sales, and the success of the Chinese version of Yakuza 0. They want to take this example and roll out titles in multiple languages across the world again.
They talk about the Sega brand. Its an interresting text. It says in the past Sega was dedicated to bring new experiences to the world using their latest and greatest assets. However during the slump of the 2000's it describes that this lead to weakness. It says that the motto has been changed to delivering experiences to fans primarily.
This also is in-line with the approach of budgets it says: "However, we do not intend to try matching major overseas publishers who initially invest tens of billions of yen (that like five dollars rite) in a single title. While keeping costs at an appropriate level, we will combine rollouts of packaged game software and digitally distributed or downloaded content to establish a business model that generates earnings reliably."
This all falls is line with the "we have learned from Atlus" comment of recent".
This IR Report is nothing more than a review of the Fiscal period and the Restructuring from earlier this year.
Your reading way too much into it. Its nothing significant and nothing of substance.
Sega Games,Ltd is SEGA Corporation. The IR Report was written earlier this summer. Its basically a recap for investors to go over what's transpired and what goals will be met during the remainder of 2015 for the 2016 FY which ends March 31,2016. This is EVERY year. It takes 4 months to be reviewed by Japanese Investor Regulators before being published.
Also the claim about Sega Games being SEGA's core business, your taking completely out of context. Sega Games,Ltd again is SEGA Corporation,Inc basically what's left of it. The Core business the IR mentions is Resorts/Theme Parks and Digital Mobile Content. SEGA's core business is SEGA Holdings,Ltd in which Sega Games,Ltd is under SHD's Umbrella.
And the Arcade Amusement business has been completely handed over to SEGA Interactive Co,Ltd or SIC,Ltd. It's been doing fine. SEGA just hasn't put out much Arcade content the past 3 years. SIC,Ltd will HANDLE All Arcade inquiries moving forward. Most of the the Arcade division reports are from 2014, although IT DID post a profit, SEGA Holdings,Ltd expects stronger results from the restructure.
Also another thing, the IR is unrelated to SEGA Holdings,Ltd. The NEW Holdings group for Sega. It's a recap of the 2015 Fiscal year for SEGASAMMY.
Regarding the final paragraph, Ten Billion yen is $100 million dollars. Not Five Dollars. The statement is saying that SEGA is going to reduce its 3rd party division into a completely niche department and is going to invest heavily in Mainly Mobile Content and more PC releases. Basically what they stated earlier this year back in February. SEGA is saying they've spent $100 million a year on major packaged consumer games for consoles that didn't profit and did not sell. Because of that, they'll be publishing less and less party games for retail in the coming few years.
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Every time I hear another quote about returning to quality and fan focus I feel as though it's more a set in stone approach and less PR noise. I'm also totally fine with then no spanking million on a single game... A really good quality game doesn't need a huge budget, it just needs a good concept and quality.
No Spanking a million?
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Regarding the final paragraph, Ten Billion yen is $1 billion dollars. Not Five Dollars. The statement is saying that SEGA is going to reduce its 3rd party division into a completely niche department and is going to invest heavily in Mainly Mobile Content and more PC releases. Basically what they stated earlier this year back in February. SEGA is saying they've spent a billion a year on major packaged consumer games for consoles that didn't profit and did not sell. Because of that, they'll be publishing less and less party games for retail in the coming few years.
10 billion JPY is about 80 million dollars.
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10 billion JPY is about 80 million dollars.
I meant $100 million initially. I first rounded out 10 billion yen as so but then I thought there was another decimal. 12 billion yen is around $1 billion but without the decimal, your correct, its around $100 million.
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Regarding the final paragraph, Ten Billion yen is $100 million dollars. Not Five Dollars. The statement is saying that SEGA is going to reduce its 3rd party division into a completely niche department and is going to invest heavily in Mainly Mobile Content and more PC releases. Basically what they stated earlier this year back in February. SEGA is saying they've spent $100 million a year on major packaged consumer games for consoles that didn't profit and did not sell. Because of that, they'll be publishing less and less party games for retail in the coming few years.
Well I was joking.
I also dont get how I am "reading way too much into it". I just stated merely what was written in there...much of it is new information, or not written with as much detail is quartely reports
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Every time I hear another quote about returning to quality and fan focus I feel as though it's more a set in stone approach and less PR noise. I'm also totally fine with then no spanking million on a single game... A really good quality game doesn't need a huge budget, it just needs a good concept and quality.
Talk is cheap and easy ... I'm not really seeing any change is SEGA Japan output at the mo, but live in hope . And having a good concept and quality is one thing and you can make really good games on the cheap (JSR, Sega Rally ) but sorry games like Saga, Shenmue 1 and II, Yakuza just couldn't have been made on the cheap, not that spending loads makes a good game (Sonic 06, Halo II, PSU , Alpha Protocol)
To make a game of the likes of GTA 5, Rise of Tomb Raider or even somthing like SEGA's Binary Domain and the like not only takes good concepts and good teams but also quite a lot of cash to make it all possible.. there's always a balance That's where good Producers earn their money
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Well I was joking.
I also dont get how I am "reading way too much into it". I just stated merely what was written in there...much of it is new information, or not written with as much detail is quartely reports
Most of it is just a recap.
It doesn't even mention Sega Interactive,Ltd's attempt to create more jobs and careers or Sega Amusements International or even Orbi Osaka.
It was written earlier this summer. Regarding context, my bad. Thanks for clarifying your post.
[quote author=Team Andromeda link=topic=3816.msg83932#msg83932 date=1447578393]
Talk is cheap and easy ... I'm not really seeing any change is SEGA Japan output at the mo, but live in hope . And having a good concept and quality is one thing and you can make really good games on the cheap (JSR, Sega Rally ) but sorry games like Saga, Shenmue 1 and II, Yakuza just couldn't have been made on the cheap, not that spending loads makes a good game (Sonic 06, Halo II, PSU , Alpha Protocol)To make a game of the likes of GTA 5, Rise of Tomb Raider or even somthing like SEGA's Binary Domain and the like not only takes good concepts and good teams but also quite a lot of cash to make it all possible.. there's always a balance That's where good Producers earn their money
I think your being a bit black and white on the whole issue don't you think? Rise of Tomb Raider cost nearly $75 million to develop and SE nearly fell short in its returns and thus posted a loss.GTA games have extremely high budgets every few years. SEGA is not this tiny publisher that needs majority of its capital in console games like EA, they are a multibillion dollar Japanese Arcade and Amusement company with less riskier markets and divisions that successfully profit and maintain stability.SEGA knows what the problem is: It's core Arcade gaming business hasn't grown domestically the past few years nor has it really had a strong output. When companies like SqaureEnix are manufacturing more machines and making more operating profit than a brand like SEGA who's been doing Arcades for over 60 years, that's when its time to revitalize your core brand and foundation.SEGA also knows that it cannot compete among the likes of EA,Capcom and SE as a console game publisher. It's had over a decade to do that and can't seem to no matter how HARD they have tried. This makes perfect sense why you'll be seeing them become less and less relevant as a 3rd party publisher and have already seen that trend since 2012. SEGA is moving in the right direction.
As far as I'm concerned they should completely pack it up as a 3rd party publisher and channel ALL of their energy into the PC,Mobile and Arcade game business. Because these are consumers who have shown that they CARE about SEGA as both a brand and a fantastic gaming company. The mainstream console gamers excluding the niche post Hardware fans have shown that they don't care and don't want SEGA making great games. They want Sony or Nintendo or MS to buy out SEGA completely and make their IPs console exclusive(for many Playstation fanboys, Sonic as a Playstation exclusive and Sony buying all of SEGA's old IP is a wet dream.)I also notice SEGA now sees Nintendo as a publishing and brand competitor. Interesting.............
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@Eternalhope Sega still actually makes the most machines in Japan and also operates the largest chain. Capcom even has their games on their service. Square Enix is making more Sega currently in arcade because of the scale they operate is significantly smaller...
Also Yasuhiro Nishiyama is a pretty cool producer...he along with Nagoshi and Kataoka (AM2) are the Creative Officers of Sega...its funny that aside from Yuji Naka and Kawagoe (former Smilebit president) higher development executives are all with arcade background still.
(http://i.imgur.com/kjULunm.png?1)
https://vimeo.com/34647567 (https://vimeo.com/34647567) (video of him)
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@Eternalhope Sega still actually makes the most machines in Japan and also operates the largest chain. Capcom even has their games on their service. Square Enix is making more Sega currently in arcade because of the scale they operate is significantly smaller...
Also Yasuhiro Nishiyama is a pretty cool producer...he along with Nagoshi and Kataoka (AM2) are the Creative Officers of Sega...its funny that aside from Yuji Naka and Kawagoe (former Smilebit president) higher development executives are all with arcade background still.
(http://i.imgur.com/kjULunm.png?1)
https://vimeo.com/34647567 (https://vimeo.com/34647567) (video of him)
That's true. SEGA is still the global Arcade giant and still has 20xs more domestic Marketshare than SqaureEnix & CAPCOM.(Especially since SEGA has Theme Parks and still much larger Amusement Centers in Japan and Asia in addition to twice more still in operation ) Its just their Arcade title output has been lackluster the past 3 years and smaller than SE. The last most recent new Arcade IP they launched was Code of Joker on Ringedge 2 back in 2012.
Regarding Kataoka. He not only Executively produced VF5, he also was the lead architect behind Lindbergh Arcade hardware.
Interestingly, Masami Ishikawa the founder of Sega Away27 and lead Architect of SEGA'S first 3 consoles: SG-1000,Mark III/Master System, and Mega Drive/Genesis is STILL at SEGA.
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The last most recent new Arcade IP they launched was Code of Joker on Ringedge 2 back in 2012.
SEGA released Wonderland Wars, a new IP, this year.
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I think your being a bit black and white on the whole issue don't you think? Rise of Tomb Raider cost nearly $75 million to develop and SE nearly fell short in its returns and thus posted a loss
It was 100% Million wasn't it and while it didn't sell to Square hopes at the start it's been a steady seller and more than made it's money back . That's not the point though, the point is even with a good team, good design and all that you still need around the $30 million dollars to make game up to the standards people expect...
Playing any of the Panzer Dragoon games be that on the Saturn or X-Box you can tell that money was lavished on the games production.
SEGA also knows that it cannot compete among the likes of EA,Capcom and SE as a console game publisher
The great SEGA can't compete with Capcom ? C'Mon if a tiny team like FromSoftware can make class AAA console games then SEGA should be able to do with same for this gen and also bet Capcom . No asking for every SEGA game to be massive AAA productions , just a few and also for SEGA Japan to get its next gen pipe lines up to scratch.
As far as I'm concerned they should completely pack it up as a 3rd party publisher and channel ALL of their energy into the PC,Mobile and Arcade game business. Because these are consumers who have shown that they CARE about SEGA as both a brand and a fantastic gaming company.
Mobile users don't care at all who makes the games and there is next to loyalty in that market at all . PC take out Total War and Manager and SEGA is hardly a major player and the only loyalty is to the brand (not SEGA) and if the SEGA fans were so happy with PC and Mobile why then , is almost everyone's top 25 SEGA games does mobile (never mind PC) hardly feature at all ? .
SEGA DNA is in the Arcades and consoles and it can and should be doing better on the consoles
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SEGA released Wonderland Wars, a new IP, this year.
Yeah and its pretty successfull to boot.
Also Kataoka wasn't behind the Lindbergh, that was Hiroshi Yagi, also someone Sato's hardware engineering team since the late seventies. Kataoka however introduced internet functions to arcades and was behind the direction of VF4 and VF5.
Mobile users don't care at all who makes the games and there is next to loyalty in that market at all .
In Japan there might be (they have festivals of their mobile division with plenty visitors). Western expansion on mobile will not work out for Sega I think.
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Yeah and its pretty successfull to boot.
Also Kataoka wasn't behind the Lindbergh, that was Hiroshi Yagi, also someone Sato's hardware engineering team since the late seventies. Kataoka however introduced internet functions to arcades and was behind the direction of VF4 and VF5.
In Japan there might be (they have festivals of their mobile division with plenty visitors). Western expansion on mobile will not work out for Sega I think.
The Western Mobile gaming business has extreme untapped potential. There's virtually little to no mainstream game publishing competition in it. SEGA believes if it focuses resources on creating outsourcing development divisions of Sega Networks,Inc across America, it can dominate the market and thus have a much larger marketshare than potential upcoming competitors.
Mobile gaming in the US is mainly and entirely casual, but there's humongous,rich and ripe potential for a cottage industry.
I personally see SEGA easily dominating the mobile market without must trouble or fuss. Sonic Dash continues to be a tremendous success worldwide. And despise being F2P, Sonic Runners is a profitable service IP with around a modest 3-4 million regular users.
Regarding Lindbergh, I see. Also, I forgot that Wonderland Wars was announced at this year's AOU back in February. I wasn't sure it would get released this year at all.
@TA. I don't think you understand. Game budgets are not $30 million at all. The average budget is $50-58 million. The development costs and budgets of console games started spiking during the 7th Gen due to more open world games being developed and larger more development resources and tools.
Also, you don't seem to understand ROE and how a console title has to break even or profit.
In order to break even, a title with an average of $50-80 million needs to sell at least 2 million SKUs in a Quarterly period. Not a fiscal. Investors expect immediate returns and back off when they don't. Most Sega titles fail to even sell 1 million. And even when they do, it's considered lackluster and underperforming. Bayonetta is a perfect example.
You know why Sonic Generations was considered unimpressive? SEGA expected 4 Million, not 2 million within a 12 month period. It needed to sell at least 2 million by March 31,2012 and it did not.
The higher the budget, the more SKUs have to be sold to profit.
Regarding SEGA competing with Capcom and EA, you seem to ignore their past. Like its not relevant to you. Like SEGA's core business never existed in the first place. Like they've always been a software publisher and have always been successful doing so. So what happened during 1983-2001?
EA & Capcom have been publishers from the very start. Sega is an Arcade company and thus makes and profits far more in that business.
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The average budget is $50-58 million. The development costs and budgets of console games started spiking during the 7th Gen due to more open world games being developed and larger more development resources and tools.
Some games no doubt and no doubt more .. I really doubt the likes of Dark Souls II, III, Forza 5, Battlefield 4 and so on cost $60 million, never mind the likes of Total War, Alien Isolation,Wolfenstin the New Order .
Regarding SEGA competing with Capcom and EA, you seem to ignore their past. Like its not relevant to you. Like SEGA's core business never existed in the first place
EA is much bigger than SEGA, The likes of Capcom, Fromsoftware I don't buy it for a second. SEGA could and should be doing a lot better on the consoles
Sega is an Arcade company and thus makes and profits far more in that business
The clue is in Capcom's name (Capsule Computers) Capcom like SEGA, started life in the Arcades I think you'll find mate
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Some games no doubt and no doubt more .. I really doubt the likes of Dark Souls II, III, Forza 5, Battlefield 4 and so on cost $60 million, never mind the likes of Total War, Alien Isolation,Wolfenstin the New Order .
EA is much bigger than SEGA, The likes of Capcom, Fromsoftware I don't buy it for a second. SEGA could and should be doing a lot better on the consoles
The clue is in Capcom's name (Capsule Computers) Capcom like SEGA, started life in the Arcades I think you'll find mate
EA is a gigantic multibillion dollar publisher with about $3 billion dollars worth of assets. SEGA Holdings,Ltd is worth 518.3 billion yen. That's around $53 billion dollars. Camparing the two is like Apples & Oranges.
Capcom is a much younger and SMALLER company than SEGA. With very few Arcade resources and extremely miniscle Marketshare in the Arcade business. SEGA doesn't need to sell 3rd party games at all. The profit comes from its Amusement divisions. The console games division is now nothing more than a necessity. It doesn't make enough money and since SEGA is financially healthy unlike say 2002, they have little use for it.
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EA is a gigantic multibillion dollar publisher with about $3 billion dollars worth of assets. SEGA Holdings,Ltd is worth 518.3 billion yen. That's around $53 billion dollars. Camparing the two is like Apples & Oranges
I'm not on about EA . Capcom and Fromsoftware aren't bigger than SEGA.
Capcom is a much younger and SMALLER company than SEGA
I know those for me are reasons why SEGA should be doing a hell of a lot better
SEGA doesn't need to sell 3rd party games at all
It's getting to the stage when that is right and most people won't give a toss if SEGA never made a home game again . Pretty sad to see what happened to SEGA Japan.
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EA is a gigantic multibillion dollar publisher with about $3 billion dollars worth of assets. SEGA Holdings,Ltd is worth 518.3 billion yen. That's around $53 billion dollars. Camparing the two is like Apples & Oranges.
Once again, you've botched the exchange rate. JPY 518.3 billion = USD 4.19 billion.
Also, EA's market cap is currently USD 20.78 billion.
You can look this stuff up on Google. It fluctuates daily.
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Once again, you've botched the exchange rate. JPY 518.3 billion = USD 4.19 billion.
Also, EA's market cap is currently USD 20.78 billion.
You can look this stuff up on Google. It fluctuates daily.
Your off by a decimal.
$4.19 billion is not a real number at all. 4 billion dollars is 42.5 billion yen.
500 Billion Yen equals to $48 billion. Remember the extra decimal
Market Cap is meaningless when you have little resources and only a few venture markets. Cash Flow is everything.
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Your off by a decimal.
$4.19 billion is not a real number at all. 4 billion dollars is 42.5 billion yen.
500 Billion Yen equals to $48 billion. Remember the extra decimal
Market Cap is meaningless when you have little resources and only a few venture markets. Cash Flow is everything.
You're the one who's off by a decimal! ;-D This isn't up for debate, this is mathematics.
And what on earth are you talking about, $4.19 billion is not a real number? It's an abbreviation, rather than typing out $4,190,000,000.
Your exchange rate is out of date and off by an order of magnitude. Get your numbers correct! You seem to think that a Yen is worth roughly 1/10 of a dollar, when it's closer to 1/100.
Here's Google's current listing of the exchange rate. I've added commas in red to make it easier to see since you're having trouble with simple division.
(http://zoonbats.com/reference/jpy_to_usd.jpg)
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You're the one who's off by a decimal! ;-D This isn't up for debate, this is mathematics.
And what on earth are you talking about, $4.19 billion is not a real number? It's an abbreviation, rather than typing out $4,190,000,000.
Your exchange rate is out of date and off by an order of magnitude. Get your numbers correct! You seem to think that a Yen is worth roughly 1/10 of a dollar, when it's closer to 1/100.
Here's Google's current listing of the exchange rate. I've added commas in red to make it easier to see since you're having trouble with simple division.
(http://zoonbats.com/reference/jpy_to_usd.jpg)
American Currency rounds out to an even zero. I thought you knew that. After 4.9 it would be 5.0. It would not go past 9.
Machine Currency generators are always going to round out Yen with multiple digit zeros when converting to US Dollars , so your likely rounding it out without counting how many digits that the yen actually has.
Also, Yen is divided by half. Its incredibly simple.
$1 is equal to around 100 yen.
$10 is equal to 975 Yen.
$100 is equal to 9988 yen.
And vice versa.
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You're just spouting nonsense when you could simply say, "oh, my mistake, I stand corrected."