SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Spock on February 18, 2016, 01:27:10 am
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If Nintendo ran as a third party company instead of making consoles, do you think Sega would still be in bed with them or would they be competing more?
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They probably would still, but there's less reasons too overall.
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Since Mario x Sonic Olympic series is the most successful crossover franchise, I say yes they'd still.
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Nintendo would die. Sega gets IPs.
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Eh, if there was still money to be made from collaborations. I don't really care either way, never was a big Nintendo fan but don't dislike them either... Don't like their consoles though.... terrible.
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Nintendo would die. Sega gets IPs.
(http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=516;type=avatar)
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I'm thinking the NX is their last console, but we shall see. Too early to talk about 3rd party run.
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(http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=516;type=avatar)
Sega jumps in the handheld business. Breaks all the records.
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Sega jumps in the handheld business. Breaks all the records.
Do it SEGA!!
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I'm surprised by the huge amount of flak that you guys give over at Nintendo. You do realize that Nintendo consoles have some of the best SEGA gems out there right?
But what am I saying, you're SEGA fans and you're narrow mindness is even worse compared to that of Nintendo fans.
In all seriousness though, whatever makes you think that Nintendo is going to go third party? Sure, it will eventually happen but Nintendo makes games that work based on their own products unless when it comes to extremely rare cases where they release their IP on arcades.
Them going third party is not going to make them release ports of already made games or even remasters of current games. They would mostly force people like you to buy a specific controller to play on your PCs. The fact that they have huge sum of cash higher than even that of SEGA and the fact that they are still in profit proves that they have a longer lifespan than that of SEGA.
I can rant about SEGA but it seems that its not going to do much to you guys even when it comes to it. You don't have to get into Nintendo but don't hate something unless that something is worth hating like SEGA who simply promises you that they will focus on quality but hasn't done that in years.
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Artwark, please stop it. You are very clearly on a SEGA fan forum, so what do you expect? Quit trying to pick fights with people over something as basic as them being SEGA fans.
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For the record, I like Nintendo and I think most people on here do too. Pokémon, Zelda, Rare, Starfox and others were a huge part of my childhood. However like SEGA and all companies, that doesn't mean they're above scrutiny. Especially when some of the things they do are just bizarre.
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Artwark, please stop it. You are very clearly on a SEGA fan forum, so what do you expect? Quit trying to pick fights with people over something as basic as them being SEGA fans.
So its not ok to talk negative about SEGA but its all right to talk negative stuff about Nintendo when SEGA has clearly made a lot of profit from Nintendo systems? Wishing SEGA to go bankrupt is bad but somehow wishing Nintendo bankrupt is a good thing?
Look, this is a SEGA fan site and I get the struggle that these fans are going through, but insulting other devs and praising the hell out of SEGA knowing that SEGA's flaws are incredibly huge compared to Nintendo is a terrible thing. Even Nintendo forums talk good about SEGA despite their flaws. Heck, some of them are even fine with SEGA just being a publisher and ignoring their valuable IP's that are more dormant than what F-Zero will ever be.
Besides, you saw these posts repeatedly flaking Nintendo for some reason one way or the other.
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But what am I saying, you're SEGA fans and you're narrow mindness is even worse compared to that of Nintendo fans.
Blanket statement against SEGA fans and pretty much attempting to insult the whole forum community isn't cool.
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Leave artwark alone, he is a Nintendo fan and a hypocrite.
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Nintenyearolds, am i right guys? *laughtrack*
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I think Artwork is trying to tell us that he/she just likes Nintendo a little better and made the mistake of being slightly too blunt about other member's opinions.
Let me just say this - SEGA has competition from other third party companies like EA Games, Ubisoft and Square Enix. I wouldn't ever want to see SEGA or Nintendo being bought by another company.
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The last thing this industry needs is for a big company like Nintendo to drop out. We NEED everyone competing, but there is no doubt that Nintendo need to listen to gamers more with their direction.
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I honestly want this industry to die, so that games can be good again
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There's plenty of good games out there though. Just don't look at the triple A market.
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Sony and Microsoft are a little too like-minded at times. XBOX is also lousy in Japan. So you will need Nintendo brand to improve and give Japanese industry more platform choices.
Also, you will want handheld options than just mobile. Just saying.
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There's plenty of good games out there though. Just don't look at the triple A market.
The triple A market used to be spectacular, that's the whole point
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Maybe its because I game on PC, but I feel like a new great game is always around the corner. Maybe look at indie games and not AAA fuck fests.
This game is going to be incredible tho:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shadiradio/invisigun-heroes/description
Its like unique take on Bomberman (no bombs tho, but the same party idea and 'view/look')
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The triple A market used to be spectacular, that's the whole point
2015 was actually a pretty fucking great year for AAA, which was a nice change.
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Maybe it's because I rarely play Triple-A games for not interesting me or being on other consoles, but I never quite got the hatred toward them. The last AAA game I played was Fallout 4, and I enjoyed it immensely. I think the last one before that was half of the Tomb Raider reboot, which I liked but didn't think was spectacular. Stuff like Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed(really any Ubisoft game that's not Rayman or Beyond Good and Evil I haven't played), Uncharted, and whatever else, I haven't even touched. I think Bethsoft might be the only AAA dev I follow.
(Does the new Doom count as AAA? Because if so, I guess it's the only other game in that category I'm looking forward to playing. How do you define AAA anyway?)
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So its not ok to talk negative about SEGA but its all right to talk negative stuff about Nintendo when SEGA has clearly made a lot of profit from Nintendo systems? Wishing SEGA to go bankrupt is bad but somehow wishing Nintendo bankrupt is a good thing?
Look, this is a SEGA fan site and I get the struggle that these fans are going through, but insulting other devs and praising the hell out of SEGA knowing that SEGA's flaws are incredibly huge compared to Nintendo is a terrible thing. Even Nintendo forums talk good about SEGA despite their flaws. Heck, some of them are even fine with SEGA just being a publisher and ignoring their valuable IP's that are more dormant than what F-Zero will ever be.
Besides, you saw these posts repeatedly flaking Nintendo for some reason one way or the other.
We shit all over Sega sometimes too. But yeah, it's a Sega forum, not a Nintendo forum. We can shit on Nintendo if we want. You're not some white knight enlightening us to the glory of Nintendo. Go away.
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Maybe it's because I rarely play Triple-A games for not interesting me or being on other consoles, but I never quite got the hatred toward them. The last AAA game I played was Fallout 4, and I enjoyed it immensely. I think the last one before that was half of the Tomb Raider reboot, which I liked but didn't think was spectacular. Stuff like Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed(really any Ubisoft game that's not Rayman or Beyond Good and Evil I haven't played), Uncharted, and whatever else, I haven't even touched. I think Bethsoft might be the only AAA dev I follow.
(Does the new Doom count as AAA? Because if so, I guess it's the only other game in that category I'm looking forward to playing. How do you define AAA anyway?)
Doom still counts I think. The recognition and significance to the many it holds puts it in that category automatically. Plus, they have shown it off as such.
I don't hate the triple A market as such. Just little it offers interests me anymore and the smaller studios are doing more that I prefer. Telltale, Revolution Software, Playtonicgames, Firewatch, Life is Strange, etc. You could say the "smaller" games as such.
Thinking about it, some of SEGA's games hit that category well too. They maybe seen as a triple A company, but that doesn't mean they can't make smaller titles here and there. Nights, Tembo, JSR, Rez, Hell Yeah, MM:CoI, Crazy Taxi, arcade ports and so on.
Thinking about it now, I can say these are the following games I'm looking forward too:
The Devils Men (Daedalic)
The Whispered World 2: Silence (Daedalic)
New Revolution Software title
Yooka-Laylee (Playtonicgames)
Sonic 25th Anniversary
Telltale Games
Life is Strange 2 (DontNod)
The Last Guardian (Sony)
Shenmue III (Yu)
Anything else I'm either waiting to hear more or I don't know about.
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Doom is one of the biggest, most influential FPS ever made that was made by some of the most widely known developers ever. It will never be something outside the AAA gaming scene.
And on top of that, it's looking pretty cool so far.
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Don't hate something, unless that something is worth hating like SEGA.
(http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/Computer-Facepalm-Meme-05.jpg)
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Leave Artwark alone.. It's hard enough settling with Splatoon as a "system seller".
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Huh? Splatoon did end up doing well in sales and bumped Japan's hardware sales at times.
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Huh? Splatoon did end up doing well in sales and bumped Japan's hardware sales at times.
Of course it did. It was the only landmark game to come out on the system all year.
If I was a Nintendo fan I wouldn't settle for that.
Hell, I wouldn't settle for that if Sega did it.
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What's a landmark game? People love Xenoblade, Mario Maker and Yoshi was the best one since the SNES game.
The console is mostly supported by indie now. It sucks, but I still like the console.
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What's a landmark game? People love Xenoblade, Mario Maker and Yoshi was the best one since the SNES game.
The console is mostly supported by indie now. It sucks, but I still like the console.
2 of which are definitely not needed on a Nintendo console: platformers. As for Xenoblade...that seemed to arrive in a very meh manner.
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I would get chewed out on other forums if I disregard games for being part of a saturated genre. I could also list indie games that are good last year but some people don't count those either. =/
All I know is, there has been some great stuff on Wii U last year but also, it wasn't a good year for Metacritic thanks to poor filler titles too.
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No. It was a completely subpar year for Nintendo. Even more so when you look at the barrage of actually pretty good titles coming out on the PS4 and Xbone.
As I said, when your best/only good game all year is Splatoon, somthing's terribly wrong.
Also, Mario Maker is fun, but it's a tool. Not a game, a tool for making levels of a 1985 videogame.
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I would get chewed out on other forums if I disregard games for being part of a saturated genre. I could also list indie games that are good last year but some people don't count those either. =/
All I know is, there has been some great stuff on Wii U last year but also, it wasn't a good year for Metacritic thanks to poor filler titles too.
Nintendo's list of platformers is simply ridiculous on the Wii u. The indie titles do indeed count, but apart from one or two, most are on others hardware too. Also, Metacritic is a joke anyway.
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As I said, when your best/only good game all year is Splatoon, somthing's terribly wrong.
I'll agree to disagree because I played more good games than just Splatoon last year. Fast Racing Neo is another example of a racing game I don't get on the other consoles yet.
Nintendo's list of platformers is simply ridiculous on the Wii u. The indie titles do indeed count, but apart from one or two, most are on others hardware too. Also, Metacritic is a joke anyway.
It's always going to be the dominate genre on Nintendo brand. I don't mind because nobody else makes retail platformers as often. I couldn't tell you how hard it is to discuss indie games on a place like FAQs where everybody just funpost. "so desperate to list indie games1!"
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Yeah, but I'm sure you'll agree when I say they need to start doing more to reach different audiences. They haven't got a game outside their usual m.o. You can always talk on here about indie. I'll glady dicuss them :)
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Their priorities should be to fix up 3rd party to fill in their missing blanks. I don't want Sony/Microsoft type games from Nintendo themselves, I want them to be more eccentric.
That said, they did abandon a few trends themselves. They used to make more non-Mario sports games in the past for example.
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They use to make more games in general, but they've failed to adapt or expand on the creative talent avaliable in the west. Which makes the decision to make loads in one genre only a bit bizarre in my opinion. A lot like SEGA, they have a vast library of games, but they seem to focus on just the 3/4 and throw the rest to the side.
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Difference being SEGA doesn't have to support a console so they don't have to cover every genre. Nintendo, meanwhile, does and they haven't. Wii U was very disappointing for me in 2015.
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SEGA is actually more diverse in what they offer than Nintendo. While you guys might not like mobile games, SEGA has already gotten 4-5 apps in Japan make 4 million > a month. Some of the apps have been doing that for 3 years plus. They have more merch deals, animation deals and movie deals with their legacy brands. Not only that they have more talented western expansion with Creative Assembly and Sports Interactive. Each of their games sells 2 million + without much marketing.
Then they have their Japanese stuff like Yakuza, Sonic, now Valkyria Chronicles, and so on. While the Japanese branch suffered recently, they are slowly picking up steam and they are trying to gather new talent to move the company forward.
That seems diverse, no?
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True on both counts. It's probably elitist of me, but I don't really count mobile games as they just pass me by. I'm not saying SEGA aren't diverse mind. I'm just saying like Nintendo, they do leave a lot in the past that could probably do well now if implemented well.
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Nintendo has botched every franchise to a pulp, except for Mario.
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Depends on the Mario spinoff. People aren't happy with Paper Mario or Mario Tennis.
Kirby is perhaps one of the best long running series out there when it comes to lacking problems.
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F-Zero...if they bothered to make a new one
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So something a bit interesting but the developer behind Unravel has no idea what NX is. Since we've been talking about how indies have helped the Wii U this isn't looking good for the initial support the console will be getting from indies.
http://gamingbolt.com/coldwood-nintendo-really-secretive-about-nx-wouldnt-mind-putting-unravel-on-it
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Yeah either that or it wont come out this year as many are expecting. Or maybe the whole product isnt going to be what people think it is going to be. *shrug
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Ori and the Blind Forest dev has already complained that they aren't getting any information regarding specs. So yea.
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Think most of the big names have an SDK, but they're probably holding off on the indie's till they've announced it. The more people know the more likely of it getting out after all. Not sure why Ori devs are moaning mind. They use unity.
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Think most of the big names have an SDK, but they're probably holding off on the indie's till they've announced it. The more people know the more likely of it getting out after all. Not sure why Ori devs are moaning mind. They use unity.
But we've already seen the big Western publishers show a massive aversion towards Nintendo so them relying on them seems fool hardy.
Compare it to Sony who was charming both big and small developers and you see the stark contrast in business philosophy and why one is leading the console scene and the other is looking at a grim future.
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True. Nintendo created this hole and they need to get out of it, so any start is a start. If the power is there and the NX sells well, I'm sure the western developers would be willing to give it a go.
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I honestly think that Nintendo consiously wants to be self dependent, and have 3rd party jump on not through being 'desperate' like they should be now, but through 3rd party freely coming on board after Nintendo succeeds building solid installbases. Almost feels like they handicap themselves on purpose sometimes.
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I honestly think that Nintendo consiously wants to be self dependent, and have 3rd party jump on not through being 'desperate' like they should be now, but through 3rd party freely coming on board after Nintendo succeeds building solid installbases. Almost feels like they handicap themselves on purpose sometimes.
I doubt it's being selfdependent and more to do with Nintendo believing it's their way or the high way. Lines up fine with their attitudes in the past and the present. Honestly this is a major problem with Japanese businesses and why so many have fallen behind, especially in tech.
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Gaming companies treating their Dev Kits likes it's secret Nazi gold to the point of lunacy?
Boy, this sure never happened before ever in the history of the gaming history and Nintendo is the only one who does it, it is! It's also somehow indicative of the support that they have with developers...for some reason?
You guys say the darnedest things sometimes.
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?
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Gaming companies treating their Dev Kits likes it's secret Nazi gold to the point of lunacy?
Boy, this sure never happened before ever in the history of the gaming history and Nintendo is the only one who does it, it is! It's also somehow indicative of the support that they have with developers...for some reason?
If a console is going to be released at some point this year and if smaller developers aren't getting the kit now then realistically we can't expect many ports by minor studios from the get go on the console.
Console makers withholding information from developers is nothing new but the fact is this is a console that is supposed to be releasing this year. If it is releasing next year then no real reason to panic but if it is this year then Nintendo should be trying to court every possible developer or at least give them a rough idea of the specs.
You guys say the darnedest things sometimes.
So I take it you think the NX will recapture the heights Nintendo saw with the Wii and DS?
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You know, I'm actually starting to wonder if this hole Nintendo have dug is just too deep for them to get out of now.
Let's just say for a moment the NX is indeed capable of ruing Fallout 4 etc with an easy port, are people really going to jump ship at this point? Seems like most people are already happy with the current consoles.
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You know, I'm actually starting to wonder if this hole Nintendo have dug is just too deep for them to get out of now.
Let's just say for a moment the NX is indeed capable of ruing Fallout 4 etc with an easy port, are people really going to jump ship at this point? Seems like most people are already happy with the current consoles.
I don't see why not. If they keep banging on the wall, keep collecting/developing premium exclusives and offer people the same or better service than their rivals (Not handicapping their online services) than people will buy the console. Nintendo still has tremendous pull in Japan, parts of Europe and America.
Remember just how badly Sony collapsed beginning of last generation and how they managed to turn the tables around, hell Nintendo even did it this generation (Albeit with a minor setback the early Nintendo 3DS sales saw) so I don't see why they can't do it. But will they is the question and I'm not confident they will do what they should do to put them back in contention as the number one console maker.
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I know plenty of people whom would stick with Nintendo if they offered AAA 3rd party games alongside their flagship franchises. It's something I would consider, but may not accommodate because I really like my XBOX.
The fact that Indies still don't have specs for the NX is a huge issue though. Pretty clear that Nintendo only has time for certain developers and is blatantly telling lesser ones to fuck off.
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I see it as more about the options you take. It's beneficial to have quality support on Nintendo.
People could stick with one console, but sometimes there are poor ports. Or that game company decide to pass localization on that version (we are already seeing that on XBOX One with Psycho Pass!).
There are some things I prefer to keep on a certain brand for consistency. I also been preferring to buy my indies on Wii U whenever possible because of droughts. Sorting the multiplatform can be fun for me.
It's a total crapshoot what survives on Nintendo console. I suspect a lot of fans prefer the type of games that is on handheld. The Western games were not adapting well to Wii U, so that audience just sticks with buying them on other consoles.
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I doubt it's being selfdependent and more to do with Nintendo believing it's their way or the high way. Lines up fine with their attitudes in the past and the present. Honestly this is a major problem with Japanese businesses and why so many have fallen behind, especially in tech.
yeah. I honestly think Nintendo doesnt give a shit and they will continue to do so. 3DS should have been more expected to be replaced soon, yet game keep getting anounced left and right for it, which leads me to believe that nintendo really doesnt wanna take the risk of 'resetting' an installbase again, in which I really dont blame them. It looks very bleak for handhelds in the future. It may not work in their favor again. Hence probably why all the expansions to amiibo, mobile, theme park and etc
I also disagree with you pirovash. 3rd party for every consumer has already been occupied. The only way nintendo can get people on board is if they come with something revolutionary, either through hardware or software. They would need an online infrastructur more attractive than live and psn. I dont see it happen on a regular xbone/ps4 like console. Nintendo has also been a company that sells cheap hardware for high profit margins. It would be a big change for them. Most people hope the change would finally happen, but I doubt it. Im pessemistic
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For those who don't know, there's a Pokémon Direct scheduled tomorrow and names and logos have been found.
Pokémon Sun: http://www.serebii.net/sun.jpg
Pokemon Moon: http://www.serebii.net/moon.jpg
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Wow, more mediocre Pokemans.
I don't know CrazyT... You really think the market wants revolution? It's a pretty well established market by now. Most people game, and know exactly what they want in gaming. Part of this was accomplished by the Wii. But Nintendo can't get into the "core" market without doing what the competition is doing: create a very similar-specced standard platform that runs the big marketed games.
Either that or fully commit to an alternative market. Don't do a WiiU.
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I'd agree with that. I'm okay like many with Nintendo wanted to do their own thing, but they shouldn't leave the basic needs of the industry.
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@crackdude
I just think its too occupied now. And not nescesarily a hardware revolution. A software revolution could be possible too. Maybe a new vision of how a console experience should be in comparison to regular interfaces we have today.I dont know lol
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That's not how big markets work..
If they want to lead the industry, they either create something new that grabs a new market (like they did with the Wii) and commit to it or they can make the same product as the opposition, but better.
The market has grown to a point where you can't expect to be a major player while having a worse product (at least in the public eye). So they either beat Sony/MS at their game, or downsize and focus on their own market (like they are doing with the 3DS, instead of going head on against mobile games).
In my opinion they should lower their expectations, they won't beat Sony or MS.. And focus all their efforts on the Nintendo fans. Grab the younger audiences, but make games that interest teens and adults. Make people want to buy your damn machines
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Yeah, dont consider me an expert or anything. The industry has changed so much lately that I dont know what to think anymore. But for sure it has to be an attractice product. Ofcourse sofware sells hardware, but im not sure if cheap hardware is still going to do them favours when evwryone's got a nice piece of tech in their pockets nowadays. Its one of the biggest differences compared pre smartphones
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I don't want to come off as rude. I am no expert either.. It's just an opinion like any other :)
People think I hate Nintendo. I actually think they have good principles, but they need to stop making shit hardware. If it wasn't for the GameBoy they would've been bankrupt way before Sega even thought of dropping out of hardware
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I dont even think the experts could gauge/predict it that well. But maybe it is really simple as making a good piece of hardware with nintendo content, good infrastructure, good online, good interface and 3rd party on board. For me personally it wont do it. The wii u dissapointment finished it for me, and I feel like this last factor is downplayed a lot.
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I don't want to come off as rude. I am no expert either.. It's just an opinion like any other :)
People think I hate Nintendo. I actually think they have good principles, but they need to stop making shit hardware.
I think that's the problem people have had with Nintendo for a while now. It wasn't deliberate, but due to the hardware they lost out with the N64. It wasn't too bad thanks to Rare etc filling in the gaps, but they got it back with the GC and then completely lost it again with the Wii.
Before the Wii u was announced, I guessed it was going to be a flop. Although they had financial success with the Wii, they alienated the third party and most importantly, the gamers. The very blood that keeps them going had gone and I knew it was going to take more then they would give to bring them back. Many guessed Nintendo would keep going in the gimmick direction and they did.
What's worse however, was teasing they wouldn't. I remember when the Wii u was still known as Project Cafè and Reggie stood on stage showing games like battlefield, Fallout etc as games they wanted to get gamers back on side with.
Fast forward to E3 and it felt like that had all changed. Rumours were brewing from third parties that Nintendo had lowered the specs and changed things. Then we got that E3 that revealed the Wii u. It fell flat on its ass and Nintendo still didn't budge.
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If a console is going to be released at some point this year and if smaller developers aren't getting the kit now then realistically we can't expect many ports by minor studios from the get go on the console.
Console makers withholding information from developers is nothing new but the fact is this is a console that is supposed to be releasing this year. If it is releasing next year then no real reason to panic but if it is this year then Nintendo should be trying to court every possible developer or at least give them a rough idea of the specs.
Which is exactly what happens every time a console comes out. Ever. Always. Even this generation where none of the consoles had even a halfway decent number of launch AAA launch games, the original indie support was fucking terrible, because the dangers of leaking actual console spec numbers are more important than giving decent information or even devkits that represent the final product.
So I take it you think the NX will recapture the heights Nintendo saw with the Wii and DS?
Okay, huh:
Considering that no one knows a single actual verified fact of the console, meaning that literally no one outside Nintendo knows nothing about the console?
Nah, I don't think that. Having any kind of expectations at this point of *nothing* is pointless.
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The N64 was a great console that was severely underrated. Cartridges had no loading, so they tried to continue using them, but cds had better graphics. Then, the cd idea came with the ability to play dvds when the PS2 was released. That was also the reason for SEGA's bankruptcy.