SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Happy Cat on September 06, 2010, 10:23:17 am
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http://g4tv.com/videos/45647/Feedback-D ... rd-Exodus/ (http://g4tv.com/videos/45647/Feedback-Deadly-Premonition-and-Infinity-Ward-Exodus/)
they talk about the lay-offs, restructuring, and more
starting around the 14 minute mark
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Yeah, this is an older video, but the stuff they say is still pretty good.
"It's like the last ten years have been like watching someone stuff my old pet and move it around like a marionette and saying 'Why aren't you laughing? Why don't you think it's funny?' Well, I don't think it's funny because you're ruining everything."
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Maybe if they stopped focusing on Sonic Team's worst games and focus on the entire company (eg. Yakuza, Total War, Valkyria Chronicles, Phantasy Star etc) they'd have a point.
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Here's the weird part, Sega does roughly the same amount of adverstising in the US as well as Europe, yet European outlets don't spend countless hours ripping on Sega.
They are the ones with the information, but when Sega Sammy turned a profit, it was published all over the UK and european media.
In the US? Just a footnote on Gamespot and barely a mention everywhere else on american outlets.
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In the US? Just a footnote on Gamespot and barely a mention everywhere else on american outlets.
I still remember the time when some guy came to the SEGAnerds website who wrote one of those articles for IGN, claiming SEGA made less games now than they did during the Dreamcast days, even though I proved they make similar amount of console games.
Good times.
I'd like to point out though, these websites do not usually know a lot about finances, I've seen people mix up operating profit and net profit when reporting for IGN, Gamespot etc, even though the two are vastly different things. Is it really that hard to understand a company's fiscal report?
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Yes, when you are a journalist. I'm sorry, "game reviewer". :lol:
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Americans don't understand the difference between Sega and Sonic Team, you expect them to differentiate operating profit from net profit?
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I don't know... The UK media never seems to get this mixed up. That's why I barely visit IGN, Gamespot and such.
Heck, Gamestop did a far more professional presentation of Sega at E3 and Gamespot just pissed
On the other hand, any report of Sega losing money, layoffs and such are plugged to a point that... screw it, I'm already in a bad mood...
It's funny that they cite Capcom as an example? Really? Capcom, to me, has been dissapointment, over dissapointment, over dissapointment... Surely they are not saying that outsourced games like that POS Dark Void are any example of successful IP translations. In that Sega has pretty much written the rule book for this, many of the games they published are actually produced by many western studios, Sega just owns the IP. A Sonic RPG developed by Bioware, an Aliens vs Predator game developed by the original creators, many games developed by Dimps, Sumo Digital and From Software.
And funny how they mention all those amazing Dreamcast games... Really, that's not how I remember it, all those dreamy Dreamcast games failed commercially save for the Sonic games(and Sonic Adventure 2 underperformed, last time I remembered) and Shenmue 1(which also underperformed).
Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia and such, bombed hard and dissapointed.
Funny how they also get starry-eyed about Dreamcast, but never...ever mention that one fact.
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Yeah, this is an older video, but the stuff they say is still pretty good.
"It's like the last ten years have been like watching someone stuff my old pet and move it around like a marionette and saying 'Why aren't you laughing? Why don't you think it's funny?' Well, I don't think it's funny because you're ruining everything."
That's a pretty rude thing for them to say =P
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I'd like to point out though, these websites do not usually know a lot about finances, I've seen people mix up operating profit and net profit when reporting for IGN, Gamespot etc, even though the two are vastly different things. Is it really that hard to understand a company's fiscal report?
they've never taken a single class in accounting, that's for sure. one thing they NEVER seem to understand is assets. If sega INVEST $200m in a dozen games they'll just mindlessly report that as sega operating profits drop by $200m!
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It's funny how they also praised Capcom. Really? They gave Resident Evil 5, one of the best selling games of this generation, an average score(a 3/5) and called it a dissapointment.
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RE5 actually sucks. That isn't Resident Evil. It's not in the style of RE 1-3 and it's not as good as 4.
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In the US? Just a footnote on Gamespot and barely a mention everywhere else on american outlets.
I still remember the time when some guy came to the SEGAnerds website who wrote one of those articles for IGN, claiming SEGA made less games now than they did during the Dreamcast days, even though I proved they make similar amount of console games.
Good times.
I'd like to point out though, these websites do not usually know a lot about finances, I've seen people mix up operating profit and net profit when reporting for IGN, Gamespot etc, even though the two are vastly different things. Is it really that hard to understand a company's fiscal report?
I remember your best point being it takes more time to make games today, but my question to you now is that how can Nagoshi release a new Yakuza game every year?
Yet, Makota Uchida, Yu Suzuki, Noriyoshi Oba and I can go on with the name of Sega producers, that aren't producing games.
While Tetsuya Mizuguchi, Atushi Seimiya etc have left Sega, others are confined to horrible jobs at Sammy. Seriously, Hisao Oguchi hasn't made a new game since the merger. I think Sega can go back to being Sega, if Sega just gives these fine people their autonomy back. Scratch a deal like they did with Naka and set them free. They won't be second party studios, but then again they will be able to be innovative and Sega won't have to bare the risks if their games fail.
Keep Nagoshi and Sonic Team in-house, let everyone else fly.
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I don't agree with X-Play's idea of Sega licencing IP's, Golden Axe, Alien Syndrome, Streets of Rage, and any other IP I can think of being developed without the core team has looked terrible, did anyone even see the horrible Bottle Rocket SOR4 designs!
That said, I wouldn't mind Sumo Digital developing a game based on a Sega IP, becuase they have proved they are willing to work with the orignal creators of the game, rather than act all independent and ruin a classic.
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Not sure about Alien Syndrome, but Makoto Uchida helped the development on Beast Rider.
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Just because he is in the documentary discussing the early days, doesn't mean he helped.
In that very documentary he said, the only Golden Axe sequel I've ever made is Revenge of Death Adder. Then he went on to praise Secret Level of how super they are (even though they were a terrible studio) and then the lead designer of Golden Axe, says that making the new GA:BR is a collabrative effort.
This is what we call PR talk, the only true involvement Makato Uchida has with Golden Axe was in Superstar Tennis, as SOL revealed the entire model of Gilius came from Makato Uchida's office.
Now that I can believe, he didn't say Uchida helped, he said the model came from him.
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I remember your best point being it takes more time to make games today
Yes they do but I'd rather take it my best point was the fact SEGA had a similar output of console games than as they do now, despite the fact that games take longer to produce. However this is mainly due to them becoming the biggest employer of game development in Japan, during the Dreamcast era, they never were.
but my question to you now is that how can Nagoshi release a new Yakuza game every year?
Chances are if more games used several items in the game over and over again, development for those games would be short and extremely quick. This is why both Yakuza and Phantasy Star have been having so many releases, because these games do not develop many new assets. A quick and efficient way to make millions of pounds profit.
What was the last Makato Uchida game?
When SEGA string a row of major profits, maybe.
What was the last Yu Suzki game?
SEGA Race TV, not bad for a guy who is basically retired for now.
What was the last Rieko Kodama game?
7th Dragon, released in 2009. Possibly working on a sequel after its sales.
What was the last Noriyoshi Oba game?
A major game? That was suppose to be Nightshade in 2004 which failure made Shenmue look like a roaring financial success, he has helped around with the Sakura Taisen series though and involved in it, perhaps he will be making a return this TGS.
do you want me to go on?
If you must, I'm not quite sure I understand your point, since my original post was discussing how I proved someone else wrong about quantity, not who made what.
These people are still at Sega and are stuck at dead end supervisional roles, I think Sega can go back to being Sega, if Sega just gives these fine people their autonomy back. Scratch a deal like they did with Naka and set them free. Keep Nagoshi and Sonic Team in-house, let everyone else fly.
I'll entertain this point for now, but there are a number of things to keep in mind;
Some of them are pretty old now and the Japanese game development scene is pretty stressful, especially a company like SEGA who has always pushed their workers, this could be a contributing factor why someone like Suzuki, would rather take it easy now.
The Prope deal still depends on a number of things, firstly SEGA only owns 10% of Prope itself, the rest of it they do not finance themselves, this entirely falls on Naka and he has to struck a deal with SEGA or other publishers to get the money required for games to develop. Currently none of his games have met their targets to the best of my knowledge. Would you have Oba developing his own version of Ivy the Kiwi for example?
Have you personally met these people to know they are unhappy at their role at SEGA? Are you aware that this is not what they wanted? They are not being forced to stay at SEGA, high profile people have left SEGA, Mizuguchi, Oshima and so on, if they wished they leave then they would have done so perhaps already.
Finally, everyone has a different idea of what is SEGA, I and some other members (For example, Sanus) believe stuff like The House of the Dead: Overkill, Bayonetta, Yakuza, Super Monkey Ball and so on constitute as being "SEGA" but this is a completely subjective point and so I do not really see any further need to discuss this, as it would just be opinion vs opinion and I believe you've already made another topic to discuss that.
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Just because he is in the documentary discussing the early days, doesn't mean he helped.
In that very documentary he said, the only Golden Axe sequel I've ever made is Revenge of Death Adder. Then he went on to praise Secret Level of how super they are (even though they were a terrible studio) and then the lead designer of Golden Axe, says that making the new GA:BR is a collabrative effort.
This is what we call PR talk, the only true involvement Makato Uchida has with Golden Axe was in Superstar Tennis, as SOL revealed the entire model of Gilius came from Makato Uchida's office.
Now that I can believe, he didn't say Uchida helped, he said the model came from him.
I never mentioned any documentary... I personally know someone who was employed at Secret Level and talked to some, Uchida did actually help make the game, mainly on tips on the setting, how some of the attacking animations should look like and what kind of voice which character should have. How can it be PR if most of the people who know of Golden Axe never heard of Uchida? I bet more than half of the people on this forum never even heard of him.
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they've never taken a single class in accounting, that's for sure. one thing they NEVER seem to understand is assets. If sega INVEST $200m in a dozen games they'll just mindlessly report that as sega operating profits drop by $200m!
This is absolutely true and something that bothered me greatly, they just read the summary and do not give the full report. I mean if you are not paid to report such news, I could understand, but this is what your job is meant to be, how can you not cover it?
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These people are still at Sega and are stuck at dead end supervisional roles, I think Sega can go back to being Sega, if Sega just gives these fine people their autonomy back. Scratch a deal like they did with Naka and set them free. Keep Nagoshi and Sonic Team in-house, let everyone else fly.
I'll entertain this point for now, but there are a number of things to keep in mind;
Thaaanking You.
Some of them are pretty old now and the Japanese game development scene is pretty stressful, especially a company like SEGA who has always pushed their workers, this could be a contributing factor why someone like Suzuki, would rather take it easy now.
So true, but if that Nintendo man Shugoriyu Miyamato (spelling could be wrong) can still be around why can't they?
I know your not the right person to ask this because it is their decision to reitre.
The Prope deal still depends on a number of things, firstly SEGA only owns 10% of Prope itself, the rest of it they do not finance themselves, this entirely falls on Naka and he has to struck a deal with SEGA or other publishers to get the money required for games to develop. Currently none of his games have met their targets to the best of my knowledge. Would you have Oba developing his own version of Ivy the Kiwi for example?
Every game Sega decides to publish depends on Sega on a number of things, if I wanted Sega to publish my game I would take a demo to them, try to tell sell it and then they will finance my development.
Giving a dever, some Capital to start their independent studio isn't a bad idea, Miziguchi and Semiya are perhaps 2 of the most noteable Japanese Sega employees with their independent studios, I would love it if Sega made them the Naka deal. As well as others who seem to be doing nothing, I want Uchida out of China and back into a studio.
Have you personally met these people to know they are unhappy at their role at SEGA? Are you aware that this is not what they wanted? They are not being forced to stay at SEGA, high profile people have left SEGA, Mizuguchi, Oshima and so on, if they wished they leave then they would have done so perhaps already.
All the developers did not leave after the Sammy merger, just like all the corporate employees did not leave prior to the Dreamcast restructure. It is a common business practice to place old employees who aren't retiring or willing to resign, to place them in a job that doesn't match their orignal job description.
Atsushi Seimiya and Hisao Oguchi, are 2 famous examples of studio heads reshuffled into different post, while Oguchi is still working, Seimiya went ahead and started his own studio. Even Naka had a similar problem, at his current post he wasn't in the position of actually coming up with concepts, he was in a supervisor position and he opted out as well.
But this is the way I understand it, I don't know them personally and it may very well have been different however I have seen this technique being employed countless times with senior employees.
Finally, everyone has a different idea of what is SEGA, I and some other members (For example, Sanus) believe stuff like The House of the Dead: Overkill, Bayonetta, Yakuza, Super Monkey Ball and so on constitute as being "SEGA" but this is a completely subjective point and so I do not really see any further need to discuss this, as it would just be opinion vs opinion and I believe you've already made another topic to discuss that.
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If you can accept licenced IPs as Sega games then that is your opinoin, and I respect it. I have probably made several topics to discuss that :oops:. By the way SMB and Yakuza are in house games and I consider them 100% Sega.
- Thanks for entertaining my tad offbit discussion.