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Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: ROJM on February 17, 2011, 08:09:31 am
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Article from Wired ...
Sonic Team's Takashi Iizuka on how Sega is changing its game
Takashi Iizuka is a difficult man to read. He often tends to slip into corporate speak, especially when discussing Sonic Team, the game development outfit he heads. Operating under the vast Sega empire, it's been responsible for developing all Sonic The Hedgehog games for the past few years -- and it's been a very, very bumpy ride.
Sega has faced criticism for both the quality of their games and for Sonic's continually-growing cast of supporting characters. But according to Iizuka, characters like Blaze The Cat and Cream The Rabbit were brought in "to create new gameplay and new product values." Asked how he feels about many industry commentators writing Sega off, he says, "I want to live up to… consumers' expectations, by contributing more to Sega."
Sega lost its way in the past few years. Although it reigned supreme in the 1990s, it hasn't been able to keep up with the rapidly changing gaming landscape, both inside and outside Japan. As consoles got more powerful and companies like Sony began to muscle in, Sega suffered -- and no-one felt it harder than Sonic Team.
In the past few years, the team's games have seen some brutally low review scores -- their series reboot on Playstation 3, Sonic The Hedgehog, sputtered in with 43 on Metacritic (a more recent entry, Sonic Unleashed, did little better with 60). As Iizuka says with a touch of irony, "We are aware that there are titles that the audience and the development team were not satisfied with."
But then, something changed. Faced with declining sales and loud mockery from the gaming public, the company took a big risk: they went old-school.
Firstly, they signed a four-game deal with development studio Platinum Games, which resulted in smash-hits like Bayonetta and Vanquish. But when it came to Sonic Team, things had to be more drastic. For starters, Sega drew a line under all previous Sonic titles with average Metacritic review scores, removing them from retail entirely. Then, Iizuka and his team got busy making a new Sonic game. It was called Sonic 4, it was a direct sequel to the old 16-bit games, it was download-only and -- crucially -- it was 2D. Sidescrolling only.
"We have had the desire to create a new 2D Sonic game for quite a long time," says Iizuka. "However, it was difficult from a business perspective, because we [had] many 3D Sonic games released. We were able to overcome this obstacle with the emergence of online distribution. Sonic 4 kicked off because all of the consoles now have online distributions (XBLA, PSN, Wiiware) as well as handhelds such as iPhone."
There's still no verdict as to whether the strategy has made business sense; Sega had a difficult 2010, and its consumer sales division (which handles games) saw a 7.4 percent drop in sales. But the critical success of games like Bayonetta and the applause that greeted the reborn Sonic 4 shows that gamers still have love for what Sega stood for, and that this is a company that -- for now -- has got its street cred back.
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... ka-sonic-4 (http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-02/17/sega-takashi-iizuka-sonic-4)
Intresting read even if the journolist came to the wrong conclusion.
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Iizuka....*chills*
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Interesting read, stupid writer/interviewer. He basically dumbs SEGA down to being a company that releases Platinum Games titles and develops Sonic games. What about AM2 or the Yakuza titles or Phantasy Star or Total War or Football Manager?
Also, no mention of Sonic Colors? Surly that would be the game that had an upswing in quality compared to Sonic Unleashed, as both are 3D titles are had more influence from Iizuka.
Also:
"Sega had a difficult 2010"
What? Really? What about placing 9th in the 2010 MetaCritic game publisher rankings? What about the Q3 income?
2010 was a great year for SEGA.
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Yes indeed it was barry the nomad. I sorta felt the same when reading the article but didn't bother pointing it out.
2010 was an excellent year. Let's not forget valkyria chronicles 2. Oh yeah baby
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Wasn't SONIC 4 panned by everyone?
:BTN
Well as far as many people are concerned the Platinum titles are what made Sega "cool" again. As for MC the company standings the industry goes by is usually the GDC top publishers chart which is due near the end of the summer. Depends how far Sega is on that chart.
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Not to turn this into a Sonic 4 debate, but from my observations:
Sonic 4 was panned by fans who put extra attention on physics (which isn't a bad thing) and consider Sonic 3 & Knuckles to be fantastic games (which they are). Considering I, and most of the rest of us here, spend a majority of our time on SEGA and Sonic message boards, the overriding opinion is that the game was awful. The physics were different (I object to the word "broken" as broken implies that the game is unplayable. it is fully playable. "Broken" would apply to Sonic '06.) and the game was lacking in zones and additional characters. These, in my opinion, were the reasons for Sonic 4 receiving such harsh criticism from Sonic and SEGA fans. Oh, and the music was a mixed bag.
When you move outside of those circles you begin to see things shifting towards the positive. For example, a good number of the general gaming sites gave the game positive reviews and many general gamers were just happy to see HD Sonic running about, despite the physics differences. I have fond memories of a number of NES/SNES/Genesis games, but I am not hardcore about all of them. So when I come around to playing HD versions of those games (Bionic Commando Rearmed, Rocket Knight, Super Mario Bros. Wii), I don't notice the changes in mechanics and physics that more hardcore fans might. Check out the metacritic scores. Sonic 4 Wii sits at an 81, and the HD versions are around a 73. Far better than '06's 43 and Unleashed's 60.
So in general, outside of our little fanboy groups, Sonic 4 can be considered a success by the media and general gamers.
However, I don't think Sonic and SEGA fans should be more forgiving, as thanks to negative opinions the game was delayed and improved (slightly). Hopefully more negative opinions, presented in a level headed non-aggressive way, will lead to an even better episode 2.
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Sega lost its way in the past few years. Although it reigned supreme in the 1990s, it hasn't been able to keep up with the rapidly changing gaming landscape, both inside and outside Japan. As consoles got more powerful and companies like Sony began to muscle in, Sega suffered -- and no-one felt it harder than Sonic Team.
I retired from the futility of trying to make that point here.
But then, something changed. Faced with declining sales and loud mockery from the gaming public, the company took a big risk: they went old-school.
Another point I tried to make here but gave up. Emphasis "they went old-school". Modern generation of gamers don't even know what that means, the same people complain about the fucking cinematics and story in Vanquish when the whole point of it is that the gameplay is a technical masterpiece, a triumph of on edge game design.
Old school gaming is dead, it can only be seen in fleeting little bits like Vanquish, Demon Souls and recently Hard Corps. Modern gaming and modern game audiences killed the old Sega. As long as gaming is about presentation over gameplay and big name, big budget franchise hype over the actual critical merits of the game then gaming is doomed. Luckily the fall of modern gaming, that I long predicted, is happening now as escalating costs and dwindling audiences that are finally tiring of shallow, repetitious, homogenized content and are going the way of smartphones, tablets, and social gaming are breaking the model.
Sega might just rise in a post-mainstream gaming 2 or 3 years from now.
Sonic 4 was an unequivocal turd and was inexcusable in the face of such triumphs as Bayonetta, Vanquish and Yakuza.
Takashi Iizuka, if that's really him on Twitter, is a goof ball and the wrong guy to be in charge of Sonic unless it wants to continue to be frozen in its corporate, casual baby form.
People, if you give a shit about great gameplay with technical depth and on the edge game experiences then get some fire under your ass and make a cause for it. If you're still playing action/movie hybrid shit like Uncharted and tasteless, mind numbing console fps, you need to get some self-confidence, a life and grow out of that shit that has killed true gaming.
Sega and old school can come back, make it happen.
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Modern gaming and modern game audiences killed the old Sega
Stop talking so silly. SEGA did a lot of the downfall it's self with the way it handled the 32 bit battle and how it was so very wasteful with limited resources.
it can only be seen in fleeting little bits like Vanquish, Demon Souls and recently Hard Corps.
There is nothing Old school in Vanquish, its quite a modern game. High end action 3rd person shooters were not wide spread in the 16 bit or 32 Bit generations.
If you're still playing action/movie hybrid shit like Uncharted and tasteless, mind numbing console fps,
I'm so so willing to bet you've never played DRAKES II at all (becasue it's simply one of the best games ever made) , and as for FPS's .... Well like Platform games in the 16 bit days, there are far too many of them, but that doesn't mean they're all bad .
If I were you, trying playing the likes of Half Life II, Singularity, FEAR, Mirror's Edge, Battle Field II for decent and very well done FPS, that offer something different
is a goof ball and the wrong guy to be in charge of Sonic unless it wants to continue to be frozen in its corporate, casual baby form
No he is very talented man, and like I said 2 years ago. Sonic Team have some new plans and new strategies (not so new now) to get the Team back on Top form.
They will surprise many and imo Sonic Colours was brilliant and we've seen 'nothing' yet
Sonic 4 was panned by fans who put extra attention on physics (which isn't a bad thing) and consider Sonic 3 & Knuckles to be fantastic games (which they are). Considering I, and most of the rest of us here, spend a majority of our time on SEGA and Sonic message boards, the overriding opinion is that the game was awful. The physics were different (I object to the word "broken" as broken implies that the game is unplayable. it is fully playable. "Broken" would apply to Sonic '06.) and the game was lacking in zones and additional characters. These, in my opinion, were the reasons for Sonic 4 receiving such harsh criticism from Sonic and SEGA fans. Oh, and the music was a mixed bag.
I think it was also panned for the Price and the graphics , with people unfairly comparing it to bullshit CGI remakes of Part III and that Sonic II HD (which need one hell of a PC to run) . It's a great SEGA game, but SEGA needs to up the graphics big time, and make the game better value for the price . I think they'll do just that, as Sonic II was a massive leap in GFX and size of the game, over that of Sonic. Myself I thought it gave those wanting a Sonic 2D game, exactly what they were asking for
And I think that's the plan of Sonic 4 Ep II, and that's to follow the needlemouse bule prints
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Yeah, price was another point of contention. I had no issue with it, as $15 seems inexpensive to me, but I can see how others were pissed about it.
It would have been nice if SEGA offered up free DLC down the road that gave the game a bit more content. Even holiday themed levels would have been cool, like how Christmas NiGHTS changed based on the dates. Perhaps when episode 2 releases, it could either lock on with episode 1 and allow for Tails to played as or if they don't lock-on, Tails could be added via free DLC. It would make for a nice bit of advertising on episode 2's part, as the DLC would be free even if the player didn't buy episode 2. However when they did play as Tails in episode 1, they'd be tempted to buy the next ep (assuming they enjoy playing as Tails).
I found Sonic 4 to be very much "old school" in that it relied on high scores, time attacks and multiple play troughs. In fact. Sonic 3 actually suffered (in my opinion) from too many cutscenes. I played through the game again recently and was surprised to find how many times I had to sit and watch characters pantomime the story. It was cool and amusing, but got in the way of the gameplay when it came to score/time attacking. Sonic 4, thankfully, trimmed that fat and allows one to play from the start of an act to the end without having to rewatch a cutscene.
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What? Really? What about placing 9th in the 2010 MetaCritic game publisher rankings? What about the Q3 income?
2010 was a great year for SEGA.
9th place isn't much to cheer about, they were behind almost all their competition.
Ranking:
1.Take-Two
2.Nintendo
3.Capcom
4.Microsoft
5.EA
6.Activision/Blizard
7.Sony
8.Square-Enix
9.Sega
10.Namco
11.THQ
12.Ubisoft
13.Konami
Being towards the bottom of a list for a company that used to be renowned for their excellent software is kind of a kick to the balls for SEGA, they need to either improve the quality of their licensed titles or stop entirely with them. It's dragging them down.
The Q3 income...they did indeed profit. However, the profit was down from last year. This is mainly due to no Mario and Sonic game, but declines aren't a good thing.
SEGA, in my opinion, needs to draw attention to their entire lineup instead of being so hit-based in their marketing. They select a couple games to market and then nearly ignore all the rest, as a result, you get the writer of this article, who hasn't heard of much of what SEGA released this year, only knowing of the hits.
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Its writing like this that boils my blood... Sega have released a load of great games in 2009 even more in 2010 and 2011 looks to be even better.
Sega/Sammy have been profiting as a whole through this recession and this last report every part of Sega was making money while many others are losing it.
As for the metacritic shit, I generally don't care... Segas score was dropped massively by 2 really shit Marvel games but they still put out games like Sonic Colours, Bayonetta, Napoleon, Yakuza 3, Vanquish, Valkyria Chronicles 2 and Phantasy Star Portable 2 etc etc last year...
Some stunning games.
Sega currently is in great shape if you ask me.
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Stop talking so silly. SEGA did a lot of the downfall it's self with the way it handled the 32 bit battle and how it was so very wasteful with limited resources.
Yes it was ALL sega's fault :roll: How high the mighty have fallen that they need to continue sony's propaganda. :lol:
There is nothing Old school in Vanquish, its quite a modern game. High end action 3rd person shooters were not wide spread in the 16 bit or 32 Bit generations.
Do you have to keep twisting everything people say?
You know what he meant by that comment, but then you'd have to be playing games for at least 30 years to know what he meant...
Another point I tried to make here but gave up. Emphasis "they went old-school". Modern generation of gamers don't even know what that means, the same people complain about the fucking cinematics and story in Vanquish when the whole point of it is that the gameplay is a technical masterpiece, a triumph of on edge game design.
Old school gaming is dead, it can only be seen in fleeting little bits like Vanquish, Demon Souls and recently Hard Corps. Modern gaming and modern game audiences killed the old Sega. As long as gaming is about presentation over gameplay and big name, big budget franchise hype over the actual critical merits of the game then gaming is doomed. Luckily the fall of modern gaming, that I long predicted, is happening now as escalating costs and dwindling audiences that are finally tiring of shallow, repetitious, homogenized content and are going the way of smartphones, tablets, and social gaming are breaking the model.
Sega might just rise in a post-mainstream gaming 2 or 3 years from now.
Sonic 4 was an unequivocal turd and was inexcusable in the face of such triumphs as Bayonetta, Vanquish and Yakuza.
Takashi Iizuka, if that's really him on Twitter, is a goof ball and the wrong guy to be in charge of Sonic unless it wants to continue to be frozen in its corporate, casual baby form.
People, if you give a shit about great gameplay with technical depth and on the edge game experiences then get some fire under your ass and make a cause for it. If you're still playing action/movie hybrid shit like Uncharted and tasteless, mind numbing console fps, you need to get some self-confidence, a life and grow out of that shit that has killed true gaming.
Sega and old school can come back, make it happen.
I don't think its specifically a sega problem more so a widespread japanese problem. Japanese gaming has evolved down the years to IMHO the terrible trash that used to be in abundance at the grey importers shop back in the early nineties. They're just not making the japanese games that has an appeal to western gamers anymore and if they are they usually locked away in the arcades but even that has changed with the type of nonsensical games that have dominated there in the last five years. Western audiences aren't into the type of japanese game that are typical of that market at the moment, they are into the type of games that became prominent in the eighties and dominated during the nineties. It may be cool to see Platinum waving the flag for this type of game built on old school values but if they are going to be run by a very weak Sega its to no avail.
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Yes it was ALL sega's fault How high the mighty have fallen that they need to continue sony's propaganda
In the west it most was... Trying to Market much less support dual 32bit systems, the Master System, the Mega Drive, the Mega CD and Game Gear was asking for trouble and to bleed money. That and getting no SONIC game ready and launching with poor tools were all of SEGA making. SONY just sat back and watched SEGA and NCL make screw up after screw up and lapped up the pickings.
Do you have to keep twisting everything people say?
How is it twisting ? 3rd person action games were not ten a penny in the 32 bit era and only came to province in the PS2 era. There is nothing old school in Vanquished, same goes for Gears Of war.
You want old school on the 360 then play the likes Deathsmiles, now that's pretty much as old school as it gets.
Its writing like this that boils my blood... Sega have released a load of great games in 2009 even more in 2010 and 2011 looks to be even better
SEGA has published lots of great games. The trouble for SEGA it was It's Powerhouse Japanese studios output; To what SEGA Of Japan used to output on almost a yearly basis in terms of leading tech, incredible design and games getting praise from both the press and gamers alike it's not the SEGA of old.
Don't you really miss the days of this ?
[youtube:3p2mk2jq]Rf6naKIIuf0[/youtube:3p2mk2jq]
[youtube:3p2mk2jq]lmlIptkROV4[/youtube:3p2mk2jq]
[youtube:3p2mk2jq]gL8BssBA9hE[/youtube:3p2mk2jq]
[youtube:3p2mk2jq]CIbXsi64YW4[/youtube:3p2mk2jq]
[youtube:3p2mk2jq]NR_LIqh4oeE[/youtube:3p2mk2jq]
[youtube:3p2mk2jq]paU58G6oXEM[/youtube:3p2mk2jq]
[youtube:3p2mk2jq]j-7hGveeHo4[/youtube:3p2mk2jq]
When SEGA used to drop jaws and show up all other developers ?. I do ...
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How is it twisting ? 3rd person action games were not ten a penny in the 32 bit era and only came to province in the PS2 era. There is nothing old school in Vanquished, same goes for Gears Of war.
You want old school on the 360 then play the likes Deathsmiles, now that's pretty much as old school as it gets.
:lol:
SS was talking about the experience not the genre. The fact that VANQUISH takes a western idea, adds fast paced kinectic action with
elequent designs is essentially the story of jap gaming,in depth gameplay mechanics too. VQ is a throw back to what was great about japanese gaming in the golden age of gaming. Fact you don't get that doesn't suprise me.
In the west it most was... Trying to Market much less support dual 32bit systems, the Master System, the Mega Drive, the Mega CD and Game Gear was asking for trouble and to bleed money. That and getting no SONIC game ready and launching with poor tools were all of SEGA making. SONY just sat back and watched SEGA and NCL make screw up after screw up and lapped up the pickings.
So wait you're blaming sega's entire output for their failure? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
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The fact that VANQUISH takes a western idea, adds fast paced kinectic action with
Japanese game studios have been taken Western idea's and adding their own spin since the birth of Video games, even RPG and Traditional Shooters owe their origins to America
SS was talking about the experience not the genre
Well the experience is very much new~ish, These sorts of games have only been possible since the X-Box/PS2 days, where consoles could handle and draw the action the developer wanted to through at it. Though almost every genre has been done and covered now, there is really nothing much that is really new and unique in terms of new gameplay experience
So wait you're blaming sega's entire output for their failure?
No, I simply saying SEGA spread its self too thin, spend too much money pushing and developing for multiple platforms in 1994/5 and lost direction and focus as result . SEGA bleed money and support.
A SEGA behind a single machine, with a single developer and marketing budget, would have been a better SEGA to take the fight to SONY and the PS . Sadly before the DC ever made it out, a lot of damage was done, where SEGA lost its image, its street creed, 3rd development support and retail Support, from which it never really recovered.
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Vanquish is the type of game that should have been HUGE. It's basically Gears of War but with fast-paced gameplay and power slides. Americans love Gears of War, the game should have been given a huge ad campaign and it could have sold millions.
Sega treated it as if it were some niche title and hardly marketed it. Decisions like that boggle the mind. Sega can't just live off of Sonic, they need to build other big names. They won't do that by refusing to market anything that doesn't have "Sonic" in it.
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TA, While I do miss those days, and games. They were released in about a 3 year time span.
In the past 3 Years I'd say Sega have released some pretty damn awesome games recently too. Maybe not quite on that level but they don't have a console anymore... Where they are currently is not at all bad in my opinion and they are profitable!
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TA, While I do miss those days, and games. They were released in about a 3 year time span.
In the past 3 Years I'd say Sega have released some pretty damn awesome games recently too. Maybe not quite on that level but they don't have a console anymore... Where they are currently is not at all bad in my opinion and they are profitable!
No really Sharky most came of those games came out in 2001 and 2002 . You compare SEGA Japan 5 years output from 1998 to 2003, to its 5 year output since the start of this generation and there's simply been a dramatic decline in Quailty of constant good games coming out and SEGA has really lost its tech EDGE .
I'm not SEGA bashing here for the sake of it , they're had a good years and games like VT III, VF 5 , Val, Yakuza II Sonic Colours were/are brilliant , But compared to what SEGA outputed in the DC and X-Box days its doesn't really compare (especially on a tech Levels ) more so on the Internet/On-Line sides of things (where SEGA were almost Pioneers, with luck PSO II will fix this) And you really need to stop counting Bay or Van as SEGA games like them made them, SEGA only published them.
SEGA Japan needs to up its tech and work Load for This and the current Generation, in order to push forward and grow (for the PC and Handhelds SEGA has been great, the issue is 360 and PS3 SEGA Japan support ) And it would be nice so at least one risky or Arty game too, something like this
[youtube:1ckor7ah]TqpHp55032E[/youtube:1ckor7ah]
SEGA should be making REZ II and Panzer Dragoon for the 360/PS3 Natal/Move , not leaving it up to Q? and Land Ho. Nobody makes a better 3D shooter than SEGA Japan and I mean Nobody
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But Q? essentially made Rez in the first place.....
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I'll happily agree that Sega Japan are not doing as well as they were in the DC era but simply put I don't think ANY company has or will match Segas output of unique and awesome games in that 4/5 year span.
Sega weren't pumping out classics in the 50 odd years before that era and probably wont again... It was imo the golden age of the company and gaming in general.
But I'm not going to hold up my hands and say Sega aren't a great company anymore just because they aren't pumping out games like they were then.
While I will agree 2004/2008 was a pretty damn low point for Sega and they were releasing some pretty mediocre crap... The past 3 years have ONLY got better with 2010 probably being their best year since 2002 and 2011 looks quite brilliant too.
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But Q? essentially made Rez in the first place.....
SEGA made REZ, ok some of the staff are now in Q?, but that doesn't mean SEGA can't or shouldn't make a REZ II. It can also work both ways Ridge racer staff left Namco to make Sega Rally, but Namco still made plenty of decent RR games.
I'll happily agree that Sega Japan are not doing as well as they were in the DC era but simply put I don't think ANY company has or will match Segas output of unique and awesome games in that 4/5 year span
Yes in the 32bit and DC era SEGA Japan just pummed out the classics . That is not so much my issue (though they do need to up production) I more uspet with the lack of leading edge tech and games with vision or a real sense of SEGA style and Art . Even on non SEGA consoles SEGA Japan were able to lead and push the X-Box with Orta, JSRF, HOTD III (the GFX were brilliant) F-zero II and Monkey Ball II on the Cube (which I think features brilliant GFX) and VF 4 Evo, Yakuza II on the junk that was the PS2.
So far 5 years in we had just Val on the PS3 and Sonic Hedgehog Unleashed that really pushed the Tech book out , and only Val for a game with the old SEGA magic for Art and pushing a new look or style of graphics. Is that really good enough for a company like SEGA. I know Yakuza III looks good and the cut scenes are truly amazing , in game the GFX and Animation are far from leading (and please do not confuse that with me saying the gameplay is bad)
But I'm not going to hold up my hands and say Sega aren't a great company anymore just because they aren't pumping out games like they were then.
I'm not saying SEGA Japan are bad or aren't making good games , but compared to what they used to pump out, or to what rival 3rd parties are putting out (like EA and Ubi) they've been left behind on the GFX, AAA games and more shockingly the On-Line side of things . That to me is a bit of an insult to the legacy the late great Isao Okawa did for SEGA
SEGA can do some steps to correct that like a Multi Platform amazing looking PSO II (lets hope) Making Sonic Colours Multi (to go along with the New SONIC game) and updating some classic IP like SOA with Canvas tech. more of their games multi platform ECT
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Japanese game studios have been taken Western idea's and adding their own spin since the birth of Video games, even RPG and Traditional Shooters owe their origins to America
No shit,sherlock. But ignore the rest of my post to make yourself even more stupid.
And here's a little tip. Japanese games have evolved since then that they're not doing that anymore and western games are back to where they were during that period. Hence the reason why SS said what he said in the first place. :roll:
But feel free to ignore other people's posts and what they say and give everyone a history lesson in an attempt to fascinate half the docile sonic fans in this forum that don't know any better.
SS was talking about the experience not the genre
Well the experience is very much new~ish, These sorts of games have only been possible since the X-Box/PS2 days, where consoles could handle and draw the action the developer wanted to through at it. Though almost every genre has been done and covered now, there is really nothing much that is really new and unique in terms of new gameplay experience
No the gameplay experience is a throwback to action/arcade games of the past.
No, I simply saying SEGA spread its self too thin, spend too much money pushing and developing for multiple platforms in 1994/5 and lost direction and focus as result . SEGA bleed money and support.
But wait that's what you want this version of Sega to do with this generation of machines, what a hyporcrite. :roll:
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I'll happily agree that Sega Japan are not doing as well as they were in the DC era but simply put I don't think ANY company has or will match Segas output of unique and awesome games in that 4/5 year span.
Sega weren't pumping out classics in the 50 odd years before that era and probably wont again... It was imo the golden age of the company and gaming in general.
But I'm not going to hold up my hands and say Sega aren't a great company anymore just because they aren't pumping out games like they were then.
While I will agree 2004/2008 was a pretty damn low point for Sega and they were releasing some pretty mediocre crap... The past 3 years have ONLY got better with 2010 probably being their best year since 2002 and 2011 looks quite brilliant too.
Better but not good enough, i tell you why i reckon that is in a moment....
Vanquish is the type of game that should have been HUGE. It's basically Gears of War but with fast-paced gameplay and power slides. Americans love Gears of War, the game should have been given a huge ad campaign and it could have sold millions.
Sega treated it as if it were some niche title and hardly marketed it. Decisions like that boggle the mind. Sega can't just live off of Sonic, they need to build other big names. They won't do that by refusing to market anything that doesn't have "Sonic" in it.
Exactly but i think it goes deeper than that.
This reply was originally to TA but work got in the way its more suited here and its been extended.
IP that everyone knows after years of being exclusive and with that building a loyal fanbase. Different scenario,
So those corps have a bigger following and fanbase to that of SEGA ?. What about the likes of 2K games ?
Well what do you think? None of Sega big games actually storm the top ten let alone get to number 1. Do you actually read back what you say before making another post. you didn't disagree with me about sega's small support base. and now you're saying they have more fans than the corps i mentioned.
here's the harsh truth. A capcom diehard fan would almost buy every capcom game. The average capcom fan would almost buy two or three capcom games.
Now technically you are correct all together the userbase of sega customers are bigger.
But they aren't fans of sega, they just happen to like games that sega happens to publish.
That's the difference.
Apart from most people here who would buy two or three sega games when they can outside of their fave sega series, or collect most of the titles, the average consumer that buys sega products these days only buy them for a particular game.
SONIC
TOTAL WAR
YAKUZA
FOOTBALL MANAGER
MUSHI KING
SAKURA TAISEN
plus a whole lot more
None of those corps ever had the failure of two systems either and that definatly impacted on the sega fanbase where they, we are now.
Sega isn't a unified brand anymore. Does having exclusives help matters, no but being Mp wouldn't either. Sega has become a company that happens to have a lot of IP but because of a lack of system where the consumer who brought into the system are exposed to other sega titles a lot more they would go looking elsewhere.
No SOA2 or any diehard sega game is going to sort that out until Sega sorts out its brand. What does SEGA even stand for anymore?
What does the name SEGA mean to you or any other gamer?
They need to rebrand themselves and unify their IP under a collective banner like they did before.
In the UK during the late eighties where the spectrum reigned king Sega managed to at least become either the second most succesful console in that country(or the third) why was that? They manage to convince many gamers that the closest thing to the arcade experience was with the master system. it didn't hurt that they had a good reputation being an arcade game producer with the kids but combined with certain games that were making a splash like Taito's Operation wolf at that period,the MS started to be the second system people in the Uk had owned.
The reason why many americans know the name Sega was that they rebranded themselves at the dawn of the Genesis system. They had a direction, they had a plan and how to sell it. The games backed up that and they became the numer one games company during the nineties in the states.
In japan Sega rebranded themselves just in time for the launch of the saturn. piror to this Sega's state of affairs on the console front wasn't that disimilar to what's happening now. they had a good userbase of sega supporters but weren't attacting enough of the other gamers to be truly considered succesful.
Sega japan rebranded themselves and they based it around another strong asset with VIRTUA FIGHTER. It worked at least for a while in japan. And other titles that came in after that helped them out a bit in their battle with sony.
I didn't include the DC for several reasons. There's evidence to support that Sega's tactic with the DC at least in america was starting to work, but by the time the userbase in the states caught on it was far too late. But clearly the DC era of Sega also had a type of image that won't be forgotten by a lot of gamers.
Today's Sega has a severe lack of image. Their marketing is pathectic, their direction is all over the place, they refuse or most likely do not know how to use their assets properly. Just the one that sells and in truth that has nothing to do with sega. At the moment they are just a name on a box, they don't mean anything, they don't seem to stand for anything.
How does one company seemingly have one of the best line ups from any third party, a good blend of eastern game design and western game design on a multitude of systems, from i may add the hottest game creators from both sides of the atlantic, only to see the titles apart from sonic crash and burn?
Is it incompetence? Lack of funds or what? because what i 've justr described has been Sega's release list for the past three years. BAYONETTA did not perform as well in the west as it should have done,MADWORLD well we all know the story on that, ALPHA PROTOCOL and countless othersthat make me wonder if it was EA, or some other third party publishing these titles would they have done better?
This is where Sega needs to focus their rebranding. Their last few line ups remind me of when Sega was at the top of their game during the genesis era. You had great second party sega games. you had great western party Sega games and the back bone was the SOJ consumer and arcade sega games.
Two out of three isn't bad. What's bad is that because of a lack of SOJ ports and hell even SOJ consumer games, even sonic isn't inhouse as much anymore it appears that Sega is a good publisher of other peoples games and other peoples styles but what made them famous is lacking and in some cases MIA or consumer indifference(YAKUZA)
Another factor is the severe lack of arcade ports. Historically you can trace Sega's success on their new ventures with the supply of arcade ports from the beginning.
Two, stop marketing to the converted. MW didn't bomb because the game was too short. The game bombed because it like HOTDOK and several others it was marketed to the converted. I'm not against internet marketing, but if that's ALL your going to do and just advertise to people who already know and going to buy the game then what's the point? The old sega use to market outside of the spectrum as well as within it and both were eye catching because they were different to their peers. in today's world of bland game marketing, its hardly diffulcult to comeup with something that will stand out from the competition and use that to define your brand.
It's Thinking, Genesis Does, Welcome to the Next level, Segata Shinsiro, there's a reason why these slogans are still remembered today. There's a reason why Genesis game collections sold as well as it did too. And there's a reason why Sega should be performing better. because as these past fiscal reports have proven at least in the west, you can have the best lineups out there but without selling and telling the greater public on who you are and what you stand for effectivly, its won't ammount to a tin of beans.
But since becoming a third party they haven't really done that.
The brand was to get the attention but the games was what backed it up and usually the arcade games were the perfect one to do that. A lot of people are hollering about BORDERBREAK being a port, initially i was against it but i can see why it could work if the consoles could mimic the network battle and sega could tap into the social element and sell it like that to the general market, who knows.
No golden goose in SHENMUE 3 or SKies 2 will save sega. They need to rebuild their brand, effectivly use the assets that they've got, arcade ports mixed with a new soj title and the other type of titles that defined their release schedule in the last few years, market them better make the moolah and reconnect and rebuild the Sega fanbase and then the high risque titles should come. Not before when we all know sega just isn't in a condition or the support is there to buy them in their droves.
They haven't rebranded themselves for this current generation. They're haven't maintained the ports. just a name on a box to most gamers.
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It has more to do than all of this. SEGA is third party now, meaning their fanbase is spread all over the consoles and they essentially have to make most titles multiple times just to please them. Regardless of that most "Bigger" games now need a much, much higher budget than ever before.
SEGA is releasing a lot of shit, yeah. Stuff like their poorly constructed ports, bad PR and Sonic the Hedgehog 4 are some of the worst things they have done in a long time, but they are not purposely trying to be terrible or anything like that. Just because a lot of their titles do not impress "Gamers" who do not even buy the games they talk about means nothing, otherwise Namco would not be in the red for like six years now.
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Japanese games have evolved since then that they're not doing that anymore and western games are back to where they were during that period. Hence the reason why SS said what he said in the first place
Both the West and East are doing it more than ever. There is nothing really new gamewise (that hasn't be seen or done before).
No the gameplay experience is a throwback to action/arcade games of the past.
And this game was . Throw backs to the past would be 2D or very basic 2D sprite scaling to given the impression of depth . 3rd Person action game like that of GOW are pretty new if only because the hardware now allows to type of games.
But wait that's what you want this version of Sega to do with this generation of machine
Is SEGA in the Home console game anymore ?: That is what a I mean buy spreading your self too thinly. You couldn't share Mega Drive code with Saturn code (much less gameplay), 32X Code with Mega Drive , All games had to be developed for the platform in question and each marketed separately (because the games, even of they shared the name would play and look so different) and more the consoles built and marketed (that is why SEGA pulled out) .
Now porting a 360 to PS3 is much more more easier and cost effects , because the game will be exactly the same (practically all area's) and its just a case of making the code work on the console on the PS3 or 360 just like with VF5 or Virtual Tennis , and you just say available on both the 360 and PS3 (much easier and cost effective to Market on TV/Press )
you didn't disagree with me about sega's small support base. and now you're saying they have more fans than the corps i mentioned.
I tire of this, you're the one that keeps saying SEGA is bigger than this or that Corp, I beg to differ.
Ubisoft needed to re-band and expand and it did just that with a 5 year plan (which started in 2001) and getting some top IP buying some Studios and going Multi Platform in a Big way, and moving developer focus outside of its base in Paris). Its now paid off and Ubi have transformed them self's from a company just known of Rayman in 1990's . 2K games have been in the game for less than SEAA and like SEGA they've had all sorts of In-House issues and massive losses., They've now turned it all around and why ?, Big Games and all of them Multi Platform and made with the west in Mind, Plus a next Gen Multi Platform engine that has been improved and improved with each new game (like Ubi)
It's not hard , more so giving the ever declining Market in Japan. SEGA Japan need to learn the lessons from the like of Ubi, Make more games for the west and start to get Multi Platform Multi Purpose engine to be shared between the teams, and just start to make a game that will also please the faithful and update a classic IP that does justice to the series like how OutRun II did for OutRun in The Arcades.
Is it incompetence? Lack of funds or what? because what i 've justr described has been Sega's release list for the past three years. BAYONETTA did not perform as well in the west as it should have done,MADWORLD well we all know the story on that, ALPHA PROTOCOL and countless othersthat make me wonder if it was EA, or some other third party publishing these titles would they have done better?
Its a bit of both. I do get the issue with Bayonetta is sold over a million and for any new IP that's a great start, more so given the timing of the games window. Alpha well there'a great game in there, it just full of bugs and looks like shit (that killed it chances for me) and a game like Madworld was just doomed to fail on the Wii, I think most people could see that 1 coming.
In those cases I don't think EA could have done much better, and it took them a while to established Bad Company or Dead Space . Sometimes a developer needs to take a chance with new IP and make a sequel , I just wished SEGA did that with Val on the PS3 and stuck with the PS3/360 for a sequel.
Also like EA did in a past , SEGA have a bad and quite unfair Rep of destroying classic Teams and IP even with its own fans now, not helped with average updates to Sonic or NiGHTS, Monkey ball (but people overlook updates to VF and VT ECT). SEGA Japan needs to update a classic IP for the Next Gen, just to show the fans the Teams and SEGA can do it and create good will and make it MultiPlatform (stop hurting your own fans Not everyone has both a 360 or PS3) Like how EA took the likes of Need For Speed back to the drawing board, EA is even making a sequel to Mirror's Edge , that shows some balls
SEGA Europe are in very decent shape I just despair at SEGA America and Japan sometimes
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No the gameplay experience is a throwback to action/arcade games of the past.
And this game was . Throw backs to the past would be 2D or very basic 2D sprite scaling to given the impression of depth . 3rd Person action game like that of GOW are pretty new if only because the hardware now allows to type of games.
Stop spinning. You got caught out. Face up to it and move on. No one with SS's experience is going to say that and meant he was talking about 2d stuff. Only a novice is going to think that. Throw backs in these type of disscussions when talking about current games has ALWAYS meant the gameplay experience being a throwback and usually meaning an enjoyable one. Only you would ever think that it was n't. Like i said carry one trying to explain that it wasn't and that it means 2d and all that jazz, it makes you look more stupid.
But wait that's what you want this version of Sega to do with this generation of machine
Is SEGA in the Home console game anymore ?: That is what a I mean buy spreading your self too thinly. You couldn't share Mega Drive code with Saturn code
Because the MD was dead by the time the Saturn arrived :roll: Your argument is pointless because if sega had to create a lot of games and go MP as your advocating than they are spreading themselves too thinly in a shruken marketplace.
(much less gameplay), 32X Code with Mega Drive , All games had to be developed for the platform in question and each marketed separately (because the games, even of they shared the name would play and look so different) and more the consoles built and marketed (that is why SEGA pulled out) .
Well they couldn't make the exact game could they with all that different power, and you're acting like these systems were all out at the same time when they weren't.
you didn't disagree with me about sega's small support base. and now you're saying they have more fans than the corps i mentioned.
I tire of this, you're the one that keeps saying SEGA is bigger than this or that Corp, I beg to differ.
Yawn, a merger with a big japanese company made them a bigger corp, that doesn't mean they have a bigger fanbase, support base maybe but not a big fan fanbase. two different things. No one should confuse being a big corp meaning automatically they have a large fan base when that company could be big for all sorts of reasons.
Ubisoft needed to re-band and expand and it did just that with a 5 year plan (which started in 2001) and getting some top IP buying some Studios and going Multi Platform in a Big way, and moving developer focus outside of its base in Paris). Its now paid off and Ubi have transformed them self's from a company just known of Rayman in 1990's . 2K games have been in the game for less than SEAA and like SEGA they've had all sorts of In-House issues and massive losses., They've now turned it all around and why ?, Big Games and all of them Multi Platform and made with the west in Mind, Plus a next Gen Multi Platform engine that has been improved and improved with each new game (like Ubi)
2k games doesn't sell well in the east. neither does Ubisoft. its easy to promote two companies whose base is in the west. But how about a company whose has to appeal to both markets hmm?. I am sick and tired and annoyed with you using smaller, crappier and downright shite companies and comparing them to Sega's situation. They are NOT in the same situation and never will be.
Both the West and East are doing it more than ever. There is nothing really new gamewise (that hasn't be seen or done before).
Nope only recently have they started to do that. again since 2002 both markets have been focused on titles that typify each markets particular tastes. The only titles exempt from this are the games that had a big name prior to that divide. HALO never sold big in the east but neither has YAKUZA sold well in the west. Yet Sonic, Devil May Cry and Metal Gear can sell well in all markets because they are estabilshed. New ips in the last several years have not sold as they should. This is one of the points you keep ignoring.
It's not hard , more so giving the ever declining Market in Japan. SEGA Japan need to learn the lessons from the like of Ubi, Make more games for the west and start to get Multi Platform Multi Purpose engine to be shared between the teams, and just start to make a game that will also please the faithful and update a classic IP that does justice to the series like how OutRun II did for OutRun in The Arcades.
That depends on what you wish for. OUTRUN 2 isn't a bad game but it was for arcades a market that has shrunked in the west at least. But then you also get what happened to SHINING. I want Sega to update games when they want to not because they have to but prehaps in that you are correct that times have changed. Sega to me always gives you the game you need rather than the game you want which is why people don't understand why many games don't get updated, but you ask half those people did they really notice when they couldn't get their SOR only to see PANZER DRAGOON come along and when that went missing came SOA and SHENMUE which led to YAKUZA. I'll give you this that they're not making as much as they should.
Is it incompetence? Lack of funds or what? because what i 've justr described has been Sega's release list for the past three years. BAYONETTA did not perform as well in the west as it should have done,MADWORLD well we all know the story on that, ALPHA PROTOCOL and countless othersthat make me wonder if it was EA, or some other third party publishing these titles would they have done better?
Its a bit of both. I do get the issue with Bayonetta is sold over a million and for any new IP that's a great start, more so given the timing of the games window. Alpha well there'a great game in there, it just full of bugs and looks like shit (that killed it chances for me) and a game like Madworld was just doomed to fail on the Wii, I think most people could see that 1 coming.
Not really, AVP was just as buggy but it didn't stop it selling very well. Why? Because part of the reason was it reached its target audience with a good campaign. I can't speak for the states but the AVP game was advertised when Channel 4 happened to have an an ALIENS season on film four, and apparently they also advertised it when Predator was on from what sharky said. Now all they had to do with MW was put it on something like ITV4 when they had some type of mad max or escape from new york movie on(which they do all t he time) and so on. All they did was sell it on e4 when smallville was on back to back i may add. totally missing the type of person who is into this game.
In those cases I don't think EA could have done much better, and it took them a while to established Bad Company or Dead Space . Sometimes a developer needs to take a chance with new IP and make a sequel , I just wished SEGA did that with Val on the PS3 and stuck with the PS3/360 for a sequel.
Stop cracking the val nonesense really its getting old and pathectic now. i told you that it was getting a sequel ages back because it was planned on being a franchise while you of course harped on that it wasn't and now you changed tact by claiming its failed because its on the PSP. Get this, PHANTASY STAR is on the psp and so is SHINING FORCE. both have seen exceptional sales. You keep talking about sega not making good buisness decisions but when they do you say its a failure. Is it the perferred option, probably not. But Val never exactly flopped either and the sales kinda prove that with the last two games.
Do Sega need to use CANVAS more effectivly? Of course but again market forces seem to conspire against sega at every turn.
Also like EA did in a past , SEGA have a bad and quite unfair Rep of destroying classic Teams and IP even with its own fans now, not helped with average updates to Sonic or NiGHTS, Monkey ball (but people overlook updates to VF and VT ECT). SEGA Japan needs to update a classic IP for the Next Gen, just to show the fans the Teams and SEGA can do it and create good will and make it MultiPlatform (stop hurting your own fans Not everyone has both a 360 or PS3) Like how EA took the likes of Need For Speed back to the drawing board, EA is even making a sequel to Mirror's Edge , that shows some balls
What fans? They don't HAVE any fans that will buy any sega product. See again your plan will NOT work until sega fixes its image problem. They did this back in their genesis and saturn periods in different markets and we all saw the results. Until then no one game is going to fix this problem be it an update or a SHENMUE 3 because they will both either flop or not sell as well. BAYONETTA and VANQUISH is proof of this.
AS for the EA point...
No they don't, not compared to EA. At least with sega the teams usually get done in at the end of any specific era like your namesake due to the close of the saturn, camelot getting kicked out or the break up of the Sega teams DC era and the dawn of the third party era.
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Stop spinning. You got caught out. Face up to it and move on. No one with SS's experience is going to say that and meant he was talking about 2d stuff. Only a novice is going to think that. Throw backs in these type of disscussions when talking about current games has ALWAYS meant the gameplay experience being a throwback and usually meaning an enjoyable one. Only you would ever think that it was n't. Like i said carry one trying to explain that it wasn't and that it means 2d and all that jazz, it makes you look more stupid
3rd person action games like GOW have only been able to be done since the birth of 3D on the consoles and with consoles that had bit of grunt like the X-Box and PS2 and so we started to see action games like DMC and Brute Force and even they pale to Gears, In those terms 3rd person action games (the genre it's self) are far from old school..
Because the MD was dead by the time the Saturn arrived
Not inthe USA or Europe; Hence why the 32X was used to build and expand on that userbase. A fatal mistake, but never mind.
if sega had to create a lot of games and go MP as your advocating than they are spreading themselves too thinly in a shruken marketplace.
Everyone is Multiplatform now, The spec's of the 360/PC/PS3 are now closely matched and its just a case of leading with the PC and then optimising one's code ready to port down for each console. It is more or less what all the major 3rd parties like Ubi, 2K, EA do,and how they make the money and get the sales
Well they couldn't make the exact game could they with all that different power, and you're acting like these systems were all out at the same time when they weren't.
In 1995, One had the ridiculous situation of SEGA having 2 Dual 32 Bit platforms, both of which needed separate budgets to market offer 3rd party support and for SEGA teams to make games for, you still had selling/supporting the Mega Drive and Game Gear and trying to run a Arcade side. Just madness more so for a company of SEGA size and with limited funds.
2k games doesn't sell well in the east. neither does Ubisoft
GTA had been a good seller in Japan for a number of years now, and that's beside the point. Japan is a shirking and declining market, it's the West where the sales and real money is to be made 'in the main'
Devil May Cry and Metal Gear can sell well in all markets because they are estabilshed.
All games start from the same standpoint. DMC/MGS weren't gifted sales at all, but it helped those sort of games had ideas and gameplay that could appeal to both major markets.
New ips in the last several years have not sold as they should. This is one of the points you keep ignoring
New IP like Gears of War, Drakes, Lost Planet , Assassins Creed, Red dead Redemption sell, Borderlands, Saints Row, Bioshock sell, Mass Effect have all sold in the millions and in the case of the likes of Bioshock, Red Dead & Borderlands there were risky projects
I want Sega to update games when they want to not because they have to but prehaps in that you are correct that times have changed
I do, and to be honest they'll not be many calls for the money men to update Classic SEGA IP, that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen
Not really, AVP was just as buggy but it didn't stop it selling very well
AVP had a big name Licence behind it, and for many the temptation of playing as Marine with those classic ALIENS sound effects is just so compelling, plus it looked better and was, far easier to get into and people knew what to expect . AP didn't look great, was buggy and a brand new IP so people didn't know what to expect, that can always hinder a new IP
it was planned on being a franchise while you of course harped on that it wasn't and now you changed tact by claiming its failed because its on the PSP. Get this, PHANTASY STAR is on the psp and so is SHINING FORCE. both have seen exceptional sales.
Don't come it, You are the one that said the PSP was dead and SEGA dropped all support . The reason why Val is on the PSP is because it didn't sell great on the PS3 and everyone knows it.
Sometimes like with Dead Space is can take time and takes a 2nd game to establish new IP.
What fans? They don't HAVE any fans that will buy any sega product
What no fans on here ?. There still a few SEGA fans around, but the current SEGA is losing them,with poor updates or just not making the games that interest them, like them used too
Until then no one game is going to fix this problem be it an update or a SHENMUE 3 because they will both either flop or not sell as well. BAYONETTA and VANQUISH is proof of this.
I really don't think a Multi Platform Shenmue III would flop, and Bay and Vanquish are not SEGA developed games, and I do get sick of people bring them up as such . SEGA needs to relight some of the old magic and make either new IP or update classic IP that used to wow and impress SEGA and non SEGA fans alike.
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Stop spinning. You got caught out. Face up to it and move on. No one with SS's experience is going to say that and meant he was talking about 2d stuff. Only a novice is going to think that. Throw backs in these type of disscussions when talking about current games has ALWAYS meant the gameplay experience being a throwback and usually meaning an enjoyable one. Only you would ever think that it was n't. Like i said carry one trying to explain that it wasn't and that it means 2d and all that jazz, it makes you look more stupid
3rd person action games like GOW have only been able to be done since the birth of 3D on the consoles and with consoles that had bit of grunt like the X-Box and PS2 and so we started to see action games like DMC and Brute Force and even they pale to Gears, In those terms 3rd person action games (the genre it's self) are far from old school..
Nobody mentioned the genre TA. Nobody mentioned GOW or any other title. VANQUISH was old school in the type of gameplay experience. Spinning this crap about 2d and now the genre just to save face. Just give it up. You got caught out, admit it and move on.
Because the MD was dead by the time the Saturn arrived
Not inthe USA or Europe; Hence why the 32X was used to build and expand on that userbase. A fatal mistake, but never mind.
Not really. I was talking about japan which not only was the MD dead naturally over there but they essentially helped kill off the MD market before it was and the general public was ready to move on.
if sega had to create a lot of games and go MP as your advocating than they are spreading themselves too thinly in a shruken marketplace.
Everyone is Multiplatform now, The spec's of the 360/PC/PS3 are now closely matched and its just a case of leading with the PC and then optimising one's code ready to port down for each console. It is more or less what all the major 3rd parties like Ubi, 2K, EA do,and how they make the money and get the sales
A company like Sega is across several machines, not just the high end but mobiles and other systems that don't have the same spec.
Well they couldn't make the exact game could they with all that different power, and you're acting like these systems were all out at the same time when they weren't.
In 1995, One had the ridiculous situation of SEGA having 2 Dual 32 Bit platforms, both of which needed separate budgets to market offer 3rd party support and for SEGA teams to make games for, you still had selling/supporting the Mega Drive and Game Gear and trying to run a Arcade side. Just madness more so for a company of SEGA size and with limited funds.
A situation cause by Sega Japan.
But really Sega wasn't making that many MCD games when the 32x came to market,the master system was dead by that time and sega long stopped making titles for it which really leaves the game gear genesis and 32x. And when the saturn did begin to gain traction the 32x was dead in 96. So, no.
2k games doesn't sell well in the east. neither does Ubisoft
GTA had been a good seller in Japan for a number of years now, and that's beside the point. Japan is a shirking and declining market, it's the West where the sales and real money is to be made 'in the main'
One game? :lol:
So's the west. Did the recession just pass you by? If you think the west games market is recession proof think again, maybe the overall market will have one good year left but you will see a drastic change. I know its diffulcult for you to understand but sega is a international company that make games for many different markets. Unlike EA and the others who really rely on just the western market for their income, Sega historuically relies on more than that.
Devil May Cry and Metal Gear can sell well in all markets because they are estabilshed.
All games start from the same standpoint. DMC/MGS weren't gifted sales at all, but it helped those sort of games had ideas and gameplay that could appeal to both major markets.
Tosh, they've been uneffected and you know it unlike the newer japanese IP. but keep talking about non japanese games to prove a point i never originally made.
New ips in the last several years have not sold as they should. This is one of the points you keep ignoring
New IP like Gears of War, Drakes, Lost Planet , Assassins Creed, Red dead Redemption sell, Borderlands, Saints Row, Bioshock sell, Mass Effect have all sold in the millions and in the case of the likes of Bioshock, Red Dead & Borderlands there were risky projects
But not in Japan, that's the point. Keep harping on about the west but none of those games sell in japan as well as none of the newer japanese IPs sell great over here. Again you purposely miss the point.
but let's remind him...
Nope only recently have they started to do that. again since 2002 both markets have been focused on titles that typify each markets particular tastes. The only titles exempt from this are the games that had a big name prior to that divide. HALO never sold big in the east but neither has YAKUZA sold well in the west. Yet Sonic, Devil May Cry and Metal Gear can sell well in all markets because they are estabilshed. New ips in the last several years have not sold as they should. This is one of the points you keep ignoring.
Its great to see a quote in context so it can't get manipulated by someone refusing to debate on a fair basis. Now when it(the recession) does hit and believe you me it will, what will the likes of these companies you like to beat sega on do then in a shrinking western market or should i say american one. Theres already been signs of a slow down already in the games market. none of these companies make international appealing titles, just games that westerners like.
I want Sega to update games when they want to not because they have to but prehaps in that you are correct that times have changed
I do, and to be honest they'll not be many calls for the money men to update Classic SEGA IP, that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen
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AVP had a big name Licence behind it, and for many the temptation of playing as Marine with those classic ALIENS sound effects is just so compelling, plus it looked better and was, far easier to get into and people knew what to expect . AP didn't look great, was buggy and a brand new IP so people didn't know what to expect, that can always hinder a new IP
That's only to the people that are into ALIENS or/and gamers. But AVP didn't reach those sales alone because just the gamers and akliens fans brought it. And license or no, if a game is buggy as hell then it won't get far. AVP sold well for a good two to three months. AP had at least a good pedigree behind it in Obsidian so the game being buggy just isn't going to cut it. sega didn't do their job properly in marketing.
it was planned on being a franchise while you of course harped on that it wasn't and now you changed tact by claiming its failed because its on the PSP. Get this, PHANTASY STAR is on the psp and so is SHINING FORCE. both have seen exceptional sales.
Don't come it, You are the one that said the PSP was dead and SEGA dropped all support . The reason why Val is on the PSP is because it didn't sell great on the PS3 and everyone knows it.
Sometimes like with Dead Space is can take time and takes a 2nd game to establish new IP.
No you come off it. I said that when Sega dropped support for a good two years before they went back to it. That doesn't change the fact that you were simply wrong. Nothing to do with how well the game did. you said it flopped you said it won't get a sequel and you were wrong. The PSP is a better market for RPGs and the proof with the other recent Sega RPGs sales indicate this. try again.
What fans? They don't HAVE any fans that will buy any sega product
What no fans on here ?. There still a few SEGA fans around, but the current SEGA is losing them,with poor updates or just not making the games that interest them, like them used too
Not enough to support SHENMUE, SOA or many other dream game. Sega doesn't have the fanbase support anymore. Accept that and move on. Like i said sega has a collection of fans that are into particular franchises that they have but they don't have a strong enough collective that would buy any Sega game product like capcom, konami and EA does.
Until then no one game is going to fix this problem be it an update or a SHENMUE 3 because they will both either flop or not sell as well. BAYONETTA and VANQUISH is proof of this.
I really don't think a Multi Platform Shenmue III would flop, and Bay and Vanquish are not SEGA developed games, and I do get sick of people bring them up as such . SEGA needs to relight some of the old magic and make either new IP or update classic IP that used to wow and impress SEGA and non SEGA fans alike.
It will flop because of the reasons already stated as for why i use Platinum games...Easy, because Platinum are the cream of the crop when it comes to a particular studio of developers and their titles didn't fare as well as they should. if sega can't execute that gifthorse to the public then what chance does a big consumer MP SOJ title have? None. That's why Sega needs to change/clean house and rebrand themselves with some identity like they did in the genesis and saturn eras. Then the rest will fall into place.
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VANQUISH was old school in the type of gameplay experience.
How ?. The owes a lot to Gears, and like GOW is action 3rd Person shooter . Mindless shooting is not old school as such, it happens in a lot of old and new games alike
. I was talking about japan which not only was the MD dead naturally over there but they essentially helped kill off the MD market before it was and the general public was ready to move on.
SOJ still made and developed games for the 32X and the odd title of the MD, Plus the 32X used the same Twin SH-2's and needed development and library support from Japan . Just a mess and so much ovelaping, While SONY just had to focus all their attention on one console.
A company like Sega is across several machines, not just the high end but mobiles and other systems that don't have the same spec.
So not making all their major Big games multi platform makes even less sense, more so given the poor Japanese market.
A situation cause by Sega Japan
They should have had the balls to stop the 32X and drop and tell SEGA West to drop the MD altogether, and for the whole of SEGA to focus on just one console to develop for and Market.
But really Sega wasn't making that many MCD games when the 32x came to market,the master system was dead by that time and sega long stopped making titles for it which really leaves the game gear genesis and 32x. And when the saturn did begin to gain traction the 32x was dead in 96. So, no.
It many not have been many, but it was still too much for any company. And well in 1995 and 1996 it was clear that both the 32X and the Saturn had more than lost the battle to SONY in the West
So's the west. Did the recession just pass you by? If you think the west games market is recession proof think again
The recession hurt the likes of Appel with the I-Phone, the I-pad, 360 and PS3 have seen great sales , even with the recession, the PS2 lauched in one of Japan's worst ever resssions and sold over half a million on day one, and when did the likes of Red Red redemption ship ? People tend to stay in more in recessions and that can mean some nice sales for games
Unlike EA and the others who really rely on just the western market for their income, Sega historuically relies on more than that
You always try to be funny and the clever one. EA games are on sale in Japan , EA do deals with the likes of Square and EA, has any Saturn users would know, published the likes of Souky and Battle Battle Garegga in Japan and looking back is no good, It's the here and now and the Japanese Market is in massive decline and the Money is to be made in the West (for most games)
Tosh, they've been uneffected and you know it unlike the newer japanese IP.
DMC was never multi Platform and now is, and MGS is now coming out on the 360 as well as the PS3, a Marked change for DMC.
Its great to see a quote in context
Why do your quote your self and then replay to it (has if I posted it)
beat sega on do then in a shrinking western market or should i say american one. Theres already been signs of a slow down already in the games market
Really you post a thread saying SEGA biggest market is Europe and now try and make out it's in decline. Just look at SEGA own sales, they pale to the western market .
That's only to the people that are into ALIENS or/and gamers. But AVP didn't reach those sales alone because just the gamers and akliens fans brought i
Everyone loves Aliens and I sales owe a lot to that, and the good word of mouth of the 1st Alien VS Predator game on the PC. Its why if SEGA can nail Marines , they'll be seeing a million seller for sure.
No you come off it. I said that when Sega dropped support for a good two years before they went back to it.
You said it was a dead system and SEGA had dropped all support, End of
Nothing to do with how well the game did. you said it flopped you said it won't get a sequel
It did flop and that's why we had the Platform switch.
The PSP is a better market for RPGs and the proof with the other recent Sega RPGs sales indicate this. try again.
Really?, so why wasn't the game made outright for the PSP in the 1st place, And SEGA putting its RPG's on the PSP and the likes of PSO owe so much to Capcom and Monster Hunter massive sales on the PSP.
Not enough to support SHENMUE, SOA or many other dream game. Sega doesn't have the fanbase support anymore. Accept that and move on.
SEGA Japan might as well call in a day then and move on and cancel Sonic, VF, VT PSO, Moneyball and any old IP with the past SEGA and gerentaion or earlier And with regards to Shenmue, I'm sure there's a million and more fans and sales there
but they don't have a strong enough collective that would buy any Sega game product like capcom, konami and EA does
So these companies have the bigger and better fans and sales?.
.Easy, because Platinum are the cream of the crop when it comes to a particular studio of developers and their titles didn't fare as well as they should. if sega can't execute that gifthorse to the public then what chance does a big consumer MP SOJ title have?
I think bay sold well for a new IP. Vanquished well that was hurt by SEGA complete lack of a push and the game lacking Multiplayer modes . Like I said even for Major Corps like EA a Big IP will fail (like say for Bad Company ) but EA gave it another go and say BC II sell by the truck load.
That's why Sega needs to change/clean house
What SEGA needs to do is learn how to Market games and start to make some AAA In-House Multi Platform games, and make decent sequels to Sonic and the likes of PSO . To get its name back .
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Takashi Iizuka, if that's really him on Twitter
That's not him. It's just someone making fun of him by exaggerating the things he says. Plus, you kind of remind me of John Kricfalusi.
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How ?. The owes a lot to Gears, and like GOW is action 3rd Person shooter . Mindless shooting is not old school as such, it happens in a lot of old and new games alike
Which is what the japanese are good at. Taking a western genre and putting their own spin on it added to the gameplay experience is essentially a throw back to that period. isn't this what you want the japanese to do more of games that appeal to the west? because they don't do that much anymore. Now stop spinning and accusing people of things that they never said or meant. You got caught out okay, DEAL WITH IT. END OF DISCUSSION.
. I was talking about japan which not only was the MD dead naturally over there but they essentially helped kill off the MD market before it was and the general public was ready to move on.
SOJ still made and developed games for the 32X and the odd title of the MD, Plus the 32X used the same Twin SH-2's and needed development and library support from Japan . Just a mess and so much ovelaping, While SONY just had to focus all their attention on one console.
Not in 96 they didn't.
A company like Sega is across several machines, not just the high end but mobiles and other systems that don't have the same spec.
So not making all their major Big games multi platform makes even less sense, more so given the poor Japanese market.
Then define your bloody point. Saying they should be Mp when sega make arcade games( which half have hardware created to run the boards) to mobile titles that use different specs doesn't make sense.
A situation cause by Sega Japan
They should have had the balls to stop the 32X and drop and tell SEGA West to drop the MD altogether, and for the whole of SEGA to focus on just one console to develop for and Market.
A miracle he admits it was SOJ's fault. HUZZAH!!!
But really Sega wasn't making that many MCD games when the 32x came to market,the master system was dead by that time and sega long stopped making titles for it which really leaves the game gear genesis and 32x. And when the saturn did begin to gain traction the 32x was dead in 96. So, no.
It many not have been many, but it was still too much for any company. And well in 1995 and 1996 it was clear that both the 32X and the Saturn had more than lost the battle to SONY in the West
The 32X wasn't in competition with Sony more so than the SNES. Problem is that it was obvious that it started to compete against the saturn rather than be a bridgeway. What killed the Saturn was SOJ's refusal to at least carry on franchises that were popular on genesis,that would have helped its chances more.
So's the west. Did the recession just pass you by? If you think the west games market is recession proof think again
The recession hurt the likes of Appel with the I-Phone, the I-pad, 360 and PS3 have seen great sales , even with the recession, the PS2 lauched in one of Japan's worst ever resssions and sold over half a million on day one, and when did the likes of Red Red redemption ship ? People tend to stay in more in recessions and that can mean some nice sales for games
The recession hasn't impacted yet. It will this year and then come back here and carry on saying the games industry is recession proof. believe me in this global recession all the markets are going to slow down including the games industy specifically in the west. Japan's recession was local so that's hardly the same thing and anyway it still impacted their market down the line as is evident today due to the many changes in work practices.
Unlike EA and the others who really rely on just the western market for their income, Sega historically relies on more than that
You always try to be funny and the clever one. EA games are on sale in Japan , EA do deals with the likes of Square and EA, has any Saturn users would know, published the likes of Souky and Battle Battle Garegga in Japan and looking back is no good, It's the here and now and the Japanese Market is in massive decline and the Money is to be made in the West (for most games)
No you are. EA doesn't sell well in the east PERIOD. Neither does any of the others. So stop twisting my words and coming up with BS about being on sale when they don't make a dent in the japanese market much like YAKUZA doesn't make much of a dent in ours. FGS man, grow up.
Tosh, they've been uneffected and you know it unlike the newer japanese IP.
DMC was never multi Platform and now is, and MGS is now coming out on the 360 as well as the PS3, a Marked change for DMC.
I don't see what's that got to do with anything. The point is they continue to be best sellers MP or not and in ALL markets. None of the new japanese IP have steady best sellers in all markets and none of the new western IP multi platform titles do well in the east.
Its great to see a quote in context
Why do your quote your self and then replay to it (has if I posted it)
Stop making things up. Let's see the thing in context shall we...
You quoted me in saying this...
New ips in the last several years have not sold as they should. This is one of the points you keep ignoring
The following is my response to your reply in the previous post.
But not in Japan, that's the point. Keep harping on about the west but none of those games sell in japan as well as none of the newer japanese IPs sell great over here. Again you purposely miss the point.
but let's remind him...
Then i posted what i actually said from the misquote comment you posted...
Nope only recently have they started to do that. again since 2002 both markets have been focused on titles that typify each markets particular tastes. The only titles exempt from this are the games that had a big name prior to that divide. HALO never sold big in the east but neither has YAKUZA sold well in the west. Yet Sonic, Devil May Cry and Metal Gear can sell well in all markets because they are estabilshed. New ips in the last several years have not sold as they should. This is one of the points you keep ignoring.
then i continued the reply.
Its great to see a quote in context so it can't get manipulated by someone refusing to debate on a fair basis. Now when it(the recession) does hit and believe you me it will, what will the likes of these companies you like to beat sega on do then in a shrinking western market or should i say american one. Theres already been signs of a slow down already in the games market. none of these companies make international appealing titles, just games that westerners like
Now stop making things up and stop taking peoples comments out of the context of their reply and implying that they said something which they didn't.
beat sega on do then in a shrinking western market or should i say american one. Theres already been signs of a slow down already in the games market
Really you post a thread saying SEGA biggest market is Europe and now try and make out it's in decline. Just look at SEGA own sales, they pale to the western market .
It was a thread celebrating sega europe which being a sega fan i'm going to do. Not only to their recent success but its also gone full circle to when europe/UK was sega's biggest market during the master system era.
And europe and america has started to slow down in the last few years. Sega is in a better position because they sell in ALL markets. The companies you keep advocating may sell great but only in the west because they only FOCUS on the west and when the west market starts to get into trouble then these companies you want sega to follow will really be in deep trouble. So don't twist my words.
That's only to the people that are into ALIENS or/and gamers. But AVP didn't reach those sales alone because just the gamers and akliens fans brought i
Everyone loves Aliens and I sales owe a lot to that, and the good word of mouth of the 1st Alien VS Predator game on the PC. Its why if SEGA can nail Marines , they'll be seeing a million seller for sure.
Not really, theres entire genrations that haven't seen ALIENS. i doubt it was just ALIENS fans and gamers that brought the game. besides the point is it reached its audience or people that a game like this would appeal to. MW failed in that because it wasn't marketed effectivly.
No you come off it. I said that when Sega dropped support for a good two years before they went back to it.
You said it was a dead system and SEGA had dropped all support, End of
What part of i said that WHEN it happened don't you understand? But by that time when VAL came out Sega was making PSP games again. Your point is moot. Trying to bring up a dead argument which you already lost just to cover another one you clearly lost is quite childish.
Nothing to do with how well the game did. you said it flopped you said it won't get a sequel
It did flop and that's why we had the Platform switch.
WRONG it broke even in japan and made decent sales in the west to give it a moderate worldwide sales overview. Aki to JB told you this at the time as well. You also said it wouldn't get any sequels when anyone who knew about sega inner dealings knew it was getting a sequel. Oh yeah wait I told you that and i was correct. End of disscussion. You lost. DEAL with it.
The PSP is a better market for RPGs and the proof with the other recent Sega RPGs sales indicate this. try again.
Really?, so why wasn't the game made outright for the PSP in the 1st place, And SEGA putting its RPG's on the PSP and the likes of PSO owe so much to Capcom and Monster Hunter massive sales on the PSP.
That's the most stupid question i've read in a long time. No one expected the PSP to take off as a big market for RPGs at the time Val was being made did they. :roll: But now it is they're all accomadating for it. Oh wait PSO and PSU sold massivly on consoles before it switched to PSP didn't it? You really haven't a clue.
Not enough to support SHENMUE, SOA or many other dream game. Sega doesn't have the fanbase support anymore. Accept that and move on.
SEGA Japan might as well call in a day then and move on and cancel Sonic, VF, VT PSO, Moneyball and any old IP with the past SEGA and gerentaion or earlier And with regards to Shenmue, I'm sure there's a million and more fans and sales there
Wrong. You said it yourself that PStar PSP sales is down to the popularity of monster hunter, which indicates the same type of gamer is buying that title too. Sonic is popular with everyone and VT and MB are popular with casuals. Again this is what you don't understand the Sega fanbase is decimated to the point where there is only a handful left. The people who buy sega products now are only intrested in a particular series and not Sega products in genral. What part of that don't you bloody understand?
but they don't have a strong enough collective that would buy any Sega game product like capcom, konami and EA does
So these companies have the bigger and better fans and sales?.
They have a bigger fanbase of fans that will buy just about any capcom product. Thats down to capcom maintaining their fanbae succesivly down the years, sega unforunatly hasn't. Sega needs to rebuild its fanbase again so they will have that level of support. At the moment they just have a group of sonic fans, a group of VF fans, a group of SHINING fans, etc etc. There is not enough of the middleground IE sega fans that connect that base altogether like there was during the nineties and early noughties.
.Easy, because Platinum are the cream of the crop when it comes to a particular studio of developers and their titles didn't fare as well as they should. if sega can't execute that gifthorse to the public then what chance does a big consumer MP SOJ title have?
I think bay sold well for a new IP. Vanquished well that was hurt by SEGA complete lack of a push and the game lacking Multiplayer modes . Like I said even for Major Corps like EA a Big IP will fail (like say for Bad Company ) but EA gave it another go and say BC II sell by the truck load.
The point is if sega can't push a title properly, 850 000 isn't bad for a game that they hardly pushed mind you, then what chance does a main SOJ has?
That's why Sega needs to change/clean house
What SEGA needs to do is learn how to Market games and start to make some AAA In-House Multi Platform games, and make decent sequels to Sonic and the likes of PSO . To get its name back .
Wrong, Sega already knows how to market, they pratically wrote the book on video game marketing. The problem is the current mindset on marketing games that are already going to sell big numbers and marketing to an audience that were going to buy the title anyway. But that is part of it. Again making a dream sega game like SHENMUE will not solve the problem. Not creating a MP inhouse game will solve it. Sega needs to define itself for this era like they did in past eras, create a marketing camapign around it and tie it with the readily available assets like the arcade codes and port them to console with whatever sonic game and the rest of their release schedule and tie them with the SEGA name. Then what you suggested (even though i've been saying that throughout this topic)once that's sorted out and once you have people who will buy Sega, talk sega and not just a game sega happens to publish IE once the sega fanbase is built up strong should you then start to go for SHENMUE 3.
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Longest post on the forums ever award goes to.... !
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Longest post on the forums ever award goes to.... !
Then I'll make this one shorter.
No you still need permission (or at least notify) the Sonic Team to use Sonic, just like you would with any of the SEGA Teams who hold the rights to the IP. One of the biggest pains to making Segagaga was just that
Not really, Sonic has been in MORE cameos simply because he is the mascot rather than the team actually wanting him in the game. Or did you forget RAD MOBILE? A game released before Sonic came out. Sonic bloody cameoed in games that wasn't published by sega but used to help promote the company nonetheless down to the fact they were a third party. So its nothing to do with the team rather than a mandate from sega to keep promoting the character and using every oppurtunity to do that. That's why sonic shouldn't be included.
So until we have a cameo from Gunstar heroes
Gunstar heroes eh, The GBA game had a ton of SEGA reference's and even Cameo music from the likes of AfterBuner.
Yes but references aren't cameos are they. Try again.
One of the reasons the Capcom vs games are popular is the inclusion of a lot of characters from capcom's past be they from their first division to their second division
Yes that is very true and also all helped with the fact that in the old days Capcom, The Coin Up division was all on the same floor and one Big Team, unlike SEGA which split it teams and let them have their own separate teams and heads.
Capcom divisions was split by the time the verses games came out. Not that different to sega really.
You don't get that from Sega hardly.
That's only because SEGA had made so little , what we've had Fighters Megamix and the likes of SEGA Racing and Tennis. That's just shows how dull SEGA Japan is sometimes. We should have had a Fighters Megamix 2 and a racers Mega Mix from SEGA Japan years ago
Well to be fair when FMX appeared not many companies were doing a crossover game at that time, i think Capcom crossover games possibly the first Streetfighter alpha or verses titles had just started and SNK preceded both in two years prior. So they were among the first but not the first to do it. Racer's megamix on the otherhand is never gonna happen.
At the end of the day all i want is a full fledged Sega crossover game that celebrates its past present and future. A wide spectrum of everybody that's had a game in the sega universe not just a game dominated by Sonic characters or DC era characters because that's the only ones the developers can think of.
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Seriously.... :lol:
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Seriously.... :lol:
Yes, that's exactly what I thought when I first saw your ridiculous post about what an arcade adventures was in another topic. I never laughed so loud.
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Wow, someone seems to have a grudge against me. Was me loling at your wall o text really that offensive?
I could make a whole post about why your arguments don't always make sense either, but sadly I don't take videogames "that" seriously. Keep doing your thing and i'll be doing mine. And yeah you are awesome for winning that point about the defenition of arcade adventures, you deserve a medal.
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Let's not get personal guys, and if this TA/Joe argument is going to go on like this, take it to PMs. I'm 99% sure nobody is reading these posts and most people aren't interested.
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Wow, someone seems to have a grudge against me. Was me loling at your wall o text really that offensive?
I could make a whole post about why your arguments don't always make sense either, but sadly I don't take videogames "that" seriously. Keep doing your thing and i'll be doing mine. And yeah you are awesome for winning that point about the defenition of arcade adventures, you deserve a medal.
Thank you for the medal when can I collect, it? :roll:
As for your other points...Not you wouldn't be able to because you'd have to be versed in video game history AND experience to pick holes in my argument. That comment you made in the other topic shows that you're not. So don't bother.
And I don't have a grudge, i just don't like inane judgemental posts. Its a debate, that's it. You don't like it, DON'T READ IT.
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I for one enjoy ROJM and TA's ongoing discussions, although I sometimes wonder if there's going to be a Fight Club-type twist where they are the last to discover that they are actually two halves of the same person.
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Which is what the japanese are good at. Taking a western genre and putting their own spin on it added to the gameplay
You know when I say that I get attacked and called all sorts by you.
Not in 96 they didn't.
? By 1996 the battle had been lost .
Saying they should be Mp when sega make arcade games( which half have hardware created to run the boards)
Porting Arcade games to the 360 or PS3 is easy, and Multi Platform is quite easy. Do what nearly every 3rd party is the world is doing , and that's making all the Big Budget games and the BIG IP multi platform on both the PS3 and 360.
The 32X wasn't in competition with Sony more so than the SNES
The 32X was in battle with all the 32 bit systems.
What killed the Saturn was SOJ's refusal to at least carry on franchises that were popular on genesis,
Never happened at all, and please don't bring up SONIC.
The recession hasn't impacted yet
When you post utter nonsense like that, no-one can ever take you seriously. A recession is defined by having 2 or more quarters of GPD going to negative . Exactly what happened to the UK, USA and some parts of Europe a couple of years ago.
believe me in this global recession all the markets are going to slow down including the games industy specifically in the west. Japan's recession was local so that's hardly the same thing and anyway it still impacted their market down the line as is evident today due to the many changes in work practices
They already have, and Japan recession is not has bad has the one it went through with it's banking collapse at the end of the 1990's and 10 plus years of hardship and even deflation. even in those dark time, PS2 sold by the millions and NCL sold bucket loads of games and systems.
No you are. EA doesn't sell well in the east PERIOD. Neither does any of the others
You need to start and get your little facts straight. EA games do and are on sale in Japan, and its not just GTA IV that can sell, amazingly even the likes of COD can shift over 150,000 copies in Japan, didn't the likes of Fallout sell in ok numbers in Japan
I don't see what's that got to do with anything
You can't see the signification of a game once totally exclusive and associated with a platform, then going Multi ?
None of the new japanese IP have steady best sellers in all markets and none of the new western IP multi platform titles do well in the east
New Japanese IP like Dead Rising had done well in the West, even the likes of Demon Souls can become a hit in the west
Stop making things up. Let's see the thing in context shall we
You quoted your self and then responded to it.
The following is my response to your reply in the previous post
New IP like RedDead, like GOW, like Bioshock, like SaintsRow, like Mass Effect, Borderlands have all sold great, hence why all are getting sequels
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Its great to see a quote in context so it can't get manipulated by someone refusing to debate on a fair basis. Now when it(the recession) does hit and believe you me it will, what will the likes of these companies you like to beat sega on do then in a shrinking western market or should i say american one. Theres already been signs of a slow down already in the games market. none of these companies make international appealing titles, just games that westerners like
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Now stop making things up and stop taking peoples comments out of the context of their reply and implying that they said something which they didn't.
You're off again, quoting your self and then responding to it, as if I posted, Get a grip !
It was a thread celebrating sega europe which being a sega fan i'm going to do
Yes both western markets selling over 5 million units compared to SOS less than 2 million units, Hence why I'll say again the West is why the money is to be made.
The companies you keep advocating may sell great but only in the west because they only FOCUS on the west and when the west market starts to get into trouble then these companies you want sega to follow will really be in deep trouble. So don't twist my words.
This generation you only need to focus on the West, and the western market has been in trouble, but compared to the decline in the Japanese market it's nothing.
Not really, theres entire genrations that haven't seen ALIENS.
That's why we had DVD's, BluRay's and why Fox still continues to make and sell boxsets . Aliens is famous franchise's and generations pass on the love of the films to the next , kind of like many many classics from the 70's and 80's, like they do for classic music like Abba or Elvis
What part of i said that WHEN it happened don't you understand
You post is still there. PSP is dead (you do understand what the word Dead implies ??) And how VAL was coming for the PS3 and how SEGA were still working on SOA II, and how VF 5 would never, I repeat never be on the 360 ; Please you're on a massive hiding to nothing , brining up old sorts
WRONG it broke even in japan and made decent sales in the west to give it a moderate worldwide sales overview..
If it all went and sold so well, the sequel would have come out on the PS3, anyone with an ounce of common sense, would know this.
Oh wait PSO and PSU sold massivly on consoles before it switched to PSP didn't it? You really haven't a clue.
PSU was not a massive seller at all, but rather a bit of loss maker. And we can all thank Monster Hunter for SEGA putting the likes of PSO on the handhelds
Sonic is popular with everyone and VT and MB are popular with casuals.
They're old SEGA IP, from the DC era, and before the SEGASAMMY take over . What happened for SEGA to need to drop the old IP?
They have a bigger fanbase of fans that will buy just about any capcom product. Thats down to capcom maintaining their fanbae succesivly down the years
So they're bigger when it comes to games and sales . Is this really the man that loved to say how much bigger SEGA was than almost everybody else ?
At the moment they just have a group of sonic fans, a group of VF fans, a group of SHINING fans, etc etc.
Again all old IP from SEGA past, and if one can make Shining sell, then a lovely update to SOA could sell just as well if not better.
The point is if sega can't push a title properly, 850 000 isn't bad for a game that they hardly pushed mind you, then what chance does a main SOJ has
Is SEGA can't push a game tidy, what the point in even doing deals with any Corp ?. Feedback is also key. Lots loved the action of Van, but wanted some more meat to the game and Multi player or Online functions. Given them that in a sequel and push the game with say a weeks TV push and see how that goes
Wrong, Sega already knows how to market, they pratically wrote the book on video game marketing.
???. You on the one hand say SEGA marketing is poor and how they can't push a title only to then say this ?. I can't work you out sometimes.
SEGA PR Marketing and TV advertising presence is completely shit and needs action to address its problem, its been an issue and a problem for far too long now
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: ROJM and TA NEED a podcast.
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Wow, someone seems to have a grudge against me. Was me loling at your wall o text really that offensive?
I could make a whole post about why your arguments don't always make sense either, but sadly I don't take videogames "that" seriously. Keep doing your thing and i'll be doing mine. And yeah you are awesome for winning that point about the defenition of arcade adventures, you deserve a medal.
Thank you for the medal when can I collect, it? :roll:
As for your other points...Not you wouldn't be able to because you'd have to be versed in video game history AND experience to pick holes in my argument. That comment you made in the other topic shows that you're not. So don't bother.
And I don't have a grudge, i just don't like inane judgemental posts. Its a debate, that's it. You don't like it, DON'T READ IT.
No hard feelings. I actually still stand by my point that Yakuza is an RPG allthough not stated and marketed as one. I do gotta admit that my point against yours about the arcade adventure genre wasn't really strong, but that's what debates are for indeed. You learn some and share your own views and make others think as well.