Author Topic: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition  (Read 24910 times)

Offline TimmiT

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2014, 07:01:36 am »
@ TimmiT: I am a contributor on the book and everything I provided was provided with primary references. Dave was open to work with people, but he always took in everything with appropriate references. As I have stated earlier we will be sharing some of the books content on the official site and we will upload all the references there.
Then what about the mistakes people already noticed? I highly doubt that a book that credits SEGA America for things SEGA Europe did or makes mistakes like saying that a 3DO ad is a SEGA ad was properly fact-checked.

Lastly, I am not overhyping the book, nor am I a "snake oil" sales man.

As I have stated I have only read SEGA BASE (a decade ago), I loved it then and I can't wait for my copy to arrive.
These two sentences contradict eachother so much.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 09:30:43 am by TimmiT »

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2014, 09:41:13 am »
@ Barry: The book is published. 2 Kickstarters have successfully ended. An audio book is nearing completion and you are still complaining about the name.

You aren't even interested in the book. Why are you still dwelling on the name? Move on.

I am not trying to be rude, I like your suggestion, but the ship has sailed.


You're coming off as rude though. I'm not the only one who doesn't like the book's title, as evidenced by this thread, and finalized or not I'm entitled to share my opinion. Should I move on from the errors and bad decisions made in the book as well?

Thanks for making the assumption that I am not interested in the book, but I've already said I've been reading the ebook. If I weren't interested in the book, why would I be reading it? I may not want to plunk down cash for a physical copy, given my disappointment with the ebook. Maybe that's what is bothering you? That I don't want to buy the shirt and the physical book? If that's the case, then you are coming off as more of a disgruntled salesman than somebody open to discussing the book for better or worse. Sorry to say, but at this point you won't be seeing any news posts from me urging people to buy the book. :P


Unless an enhanced enhanced edition is on the way to clean up the errors and refine the layout, I'd say pass on this. If somebody is still curious, the $8 ebook (which is what I got) is cheap enough to not feel ripped off. I can't see myself being satisfied at all if I had bought the $75+ hardcover book - it's just not worth it given the ebook and paperback are already out there. To quote a reviewer on Amazon: "at times still feels like a webpage filed together, instead of a coherent volume" - that is kind of how I feel in regards to the presentation.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 09:49:36 am by Barry the Nomad »

Offline cube_b3

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2014, 12:47:19 pm »
Hmm... like I said I wasn't trying to be rude so if I am coming off as rude I apologize.

When you said you had read the book a little I assumed you just read the book via the preview at Amazon, my bad. I was here to get support for the Kickstarter which I was a part off.

As for voicing your opinion, I was irritated because it felt really redundant. Almost before your post I had made a post addressing the title - yes, I wasn't directly addressing you in that post but I was talking about the title. The title was announced 3 ears ago, and this was a community project. It was announced on SEGAbits that if you have suggestions for title present them! No body said anything constructive... So the redundancy makes me come off as rude, even though I am trying to be polite about it.


Lastly, the ship for making a news post has also sailed. The only thing you could do at this point is maybe write a review but unless you have something to say that hasn't been said, what would be the point?

As for enhanced enhanced - that will never happen and if it does I won't be involved. I worked hard on this book and a few things could be better but there will always be room for improvement on any project. George has made some suggestions via skype and at first we just joked about it but then I started to discuss it with David and maybe we might start writing something new. It would be SEGA related but it would be something new and exciting.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 12:49:03 pm by cube_b3 »

Offline pirovash88

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2014, 10:31:29 am »
I think it looks pretty cool, might go for an Ebook. Congrats on getting the Hardcovers to look that good. Who manufactured them for you? I used to work for a Manufacturer here in the States, so yeah i know a thing or two about the printing industry.


And quite honestly, i don't mind the title very much. "The Rise and Fall" if you're a legit Sega fan, you'll get the reference pretty easily.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 12:58:08 pm by pirovash88 »
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Offline cube_b3

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2014, 10:44:53 pm »
We went to Create Space for both books.

If you are thinking of buying the eBook I suggest buying the story bundle.
www.storybundle.com

More value for your money ;)

Offline Nameless 24

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2014, 09:52:03 am »
The strange thing is outside of entertainment, Japan in general is still a massive global leader in several markets. Audio-Technica, Wacom, Honda etc are all top quality companies. I suppose the difference is Japan's other industry have adapted to ensure their products have a global appeal, whilst their entertainment products are designed first at being suitable for the Japanese marketplace and then the world.

It does sure seem that way, although it's surprising how Sony's lost most of their marketshare to Samsung within a few years.

Actually majority of SEGA's software sales come from Europe and America. Whilst it's true they get a bigger share of the revenue in Japan, the fact that they have 4 multi-million sellings IPs (And own the license to 2 more) means their Western core gaming sales outpace their Japanese ones. It really is smartphone gaming that is giving SEGA their bulk of their money in Japan, simply because it is the biggest part of the market.

Indeed, I read somewhere that the younger generation don't get enough money in wages like us or Americans so their entertainment is coming from the Mobile Segment? it wouldn't surprise me that they shifted to that platform due to those problems.

Fan fact, the team that developed Sonic Unleashed was mostly made of new employees. Really what they need is good producers, something they have been seriously lacking. Iizuka is okay to good but often seems out of his depth. He has done well steadying the ship but that's about it I believe, they need a better producer taking care of the Sonic franchise.

Ah I see! Then the producers are the problem then, or a lack of leadership or maybe perhaps a lack of higher subordinates. Either way, you'd think that SEGA could highlight those that show potential like they did in the 90s.

Depends which country and at what time of year. Also all sales for their PC centric titles might not show up in charts due to digital sales eg Rome II did 30,000 in the UK in packaged sales for the first week but factoring in digital sales pushes it to above 100,000 units. However in Japan digital sales often amount to little less than 5% of total sales.

Also true, but I can't help but think that SEGA's rep has been tarnished with the gamers (at least those in the know). General customers are happy to buy a game that just happens to have SEGA on it, but for the gaming audience...they tend to waver.

It is true most of the money is generated from Sammy but we know that Nagoshi pushed for the acquisition of Relic so it's not like SEGA do not have access to the money pot.

Another interesting point. I wonder if he's looking into other studios at this point?

State of the industry I'm afraid. EA was producing 68 games in 2008, by 2014 they only have 14 games I believe.

And that is why I am losing the interest to game. So many things are making it more in line with the Movie/Music Industries which happened to have the same effects on the dedicated fanbases as well.

SEGA's Western arm is making a killing, right now their Japanese packaged sales are hurting but the success of Phantasy Star Online 2 and their iOS games is ensuring that division is making a profit, at least for now but I'd imagine the fact they have Atlus now will only further strengthen their grip in Japan long term.

You'd think that SEGA West would invest some of the money into SEGA Japan's efforts like what's going on over at Japan Studio (Sony), but it doesn't seem to look that way.

I think they have been doing quite well in the charts in Japan and selling much more than 10k units on their bigger games, though Im no expert right now Aki's chart summeries always seem quite positive! And as they are regularly making an overall profit I think they must be doing something right!

I'm not saying they are number 1 on Steam, but they have more games up there than most western publishers and by far more than any other Japanese publisher. Which is a very good thing for me as I'm really not interested in Games Consoles at the moment.

The arcade industry is dying, that is for sure but I'm happy that Sega can still make a profit from it and really are the last big publisher keeping it afloat. I think if Sega dropped Arcades suddenly it would leave a huge hole.

I don't really see much difference between Sega and Sammy at this point, it was a merge the money pot is held by a joined company. But it was definitely Sega which bid for and bought Atlus, regardless of who's money they were using.

I understand that SEGA's in a much better position than most Companies in Japan (even Ninty and Sony), but I don't see how they're going to expand their existing sales/fanbase in the near future.

I could be wrong of course! (I hope I am as I'm a SEGA fan!)

I agree with SEGA dropping the market would indeed be a great loss, since they're the big ones in that market. However, they need to try and get some of those games onto home consoles in the west if they're reluctant to release the arcade cabinets. I am sure that SEGA Vintage Collection would help them once more.

Overall, the profits make for good reading, and I trust that Aki knows this much more than we do. I just have little concerns over some of their markets.
Big fan of Claymore, Miria in particular.

Currently playing Yakuza 0.

Offline Centrale

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2014, 01:47:56 pm »
And quite honestly, i don't mind the title very much. "The Rise and Fall" if you're a legit Sega fan, you'll get the reference pretty easily.

Whatever. I was a "legit" Sega fan before they ever released any home consoles. Obviously we all have different perspectives and interpretations and opinions about Sega, past and present. If the folks behind the book wanted it to have broad support and appeal then they shouldn't have chosen a subtitle that sounds like something an NES fanatic would come up with. And it wasn't the duty of the people who expressed dissatisfaction about it to come up with a better one. So they have a book with an appeal to only a certain slice of the overall Sega fanbase, hopefully that's enough to make the project successful for them.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 01:50:46 pm by Centrale »

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2014, 03:08:28 pm »
Whatever. I was a "legit" Sega fan before they ever released any home consoles. Obviously we all have different perspectives and interpretations and opinions about Sega, past and present. If the folks behind the book wanted it to have broad support and appeal then they shouldn't have chosen a subtitle that sounds like something an NES fanatic would come up with. And it wasn't the duty of the people who expressed dissatisfaction about it to come up with a better one. So they have a book with an appeal to only a certain slice of the overall Sega fanbase, hopefully that's enough to make the project successful for them.

If you want a good SEGA book, I suggest Console Wars: http://www.amazon.com/Console-Wars-Nintendo-Defined-Generation/dp/0062276697/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398197244&sr=8-1&keywords=console+wars

I'm 300 pages into it (publisher sent SEGAbits a review copy) and it is pretty fair and unbiased. I mean, it just tells things like they are from the SEGA perspective. Nintendo isn't an enemy, they're just competition. Check it out for sure.

Offline pirovash88

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2014, 05:29:19 pm »
If you want a good SEGA book, I suggest Console Wars: http://www.amazon.com/Console-Wars-Nintendo-Defined-Generation/dp/0062276697/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398197244&sr=8-1&keywords=console+wars

I'm 300 pages into it (publisher sent SEGAbits a review copy) and it is pretty fair and unbiased. I mean, it just tells things like they are from the SEGA perspective. Nintendo isn't an enemy, they're just competition. Check it out for sure.

I've heard about this book as well, i've been really interested in buying it. This is the book they want to create a film adaptation as well, no?
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2014, 06:06:20 pm »
I've heard about this book as well, i've been really interested in buying it. This is the book they want to create a film adaptation as well, no?

Yup! That's the one. It follows Tom Kalinske though his time at SEGA, and gives historical asides in chapters covering companies that SEGA worked with or worked against like EA and Nintendo. Really well written and not like a history book at all. It's much more of a story in the way it is presented.

Offline Randroid

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2014, 06:43:58 pm »
Whoa, Console Wars will be a movie about the 16bit era told from a Sega Perspective???

Pretty awesome. Welcome change from tired, omnipresent, Nintendo/Sony perspective nearly all game media seems to report from these days.

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2014, 12:05:27 am »
Yup, and TBH Nintendo comes off as smug and setting themselves up for failure (their Wii U practices anybody?) while Sony is more interested in expanding into new markets. Not really getting the vibe that they have a passion for games like SEGA does.

Anyway, it's refreshing to see SEGA getting the focus. As SEGA fans we all know why the company was so damn cool in the 90's and it's great to see somebody who gets it putting it front and center in a book.

Really, if it was all from the Nintendo perspective it would be all about them pushing strict rules on third party devs and testing the limits of legal business practices. Hardly fun reading if that were the case.

Offline Saturn Memories

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2014, 09:28:26 am »
Sega were very much the underdogs going into the 16-bit era. The way in which they managed to compete against a firmly entrenched rival like Nintendo makes for a good story. Telling the story from any other perspective just wouldn't be as interesting.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 09:30:46 am by Saturn Memories »
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Offline cube_b3

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2014, 11:35:10 pm »
Personally I can't wait to read Console Wars but I have more than a few books in cue already.

Just bumping this thread to show off my name on the book :P


We are also in early stages of talking about a sequel. something very different from the original and Console Wars.

Offline ROJM

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Re: Service Games: Rise & Fall of Sega Enhanced Edition
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2014, 04:28:37 am »
What fall of Sega? They still exist, they're profitable, they top the sales charts regularly, they have games on every platform and are one of the leading Japanese PC developers and Steam supporters making it easier to play their classics than ever before, still dominate in the Arcade industry and just baught Atlus... Alien Isolation was voted the best game at Rezzed...

I get that some people want more high budget titles from Sega Japan but otherwise I see Sega as pretty damn on the ball right now.




That's the reason i not gonna buy this book. Most western fans like to concentrate on Sega as a company in the states . The reality is Sega had an affect on different markets which had different results.
What happened with Sega in europe and the UK? Why was that period the most important for Sega as a company in the west? And why did it help pave the way for what eventually exploded Sega in the states? Betcha don't even remotely cover that in ANY detail.Also the title is stupid, If the book just concentrated on their hardware days, fair enough but i suspect it doesn't so the title is stupid.

Also i'm not interested in info after the fact either.I dont care the opinions of people who were too young to actuallu understand what was going on at the time and then they grow up and decide what their game company is and get into the history but not REALLY understanding the history. Some games forgotten now were big games back then. Also you gotta be partial and cover the whole thing. Its like watching WCW the rise and fall and realizing its the fucking WWE's spin on things and not the exact truth. Kalinske is a great leader for Sega but he's going to put his view on things and his own spin on certain situations. Unless you the side of Rosen (THE founder OF SEGA, NOT THE GUY FROM hAWAII who just happened to have the name that the merged companies used..god they giving that con man a credit as a founder LOL!!)and also Hayao Nakayama the guy who was the first president of what we now or use to call Sega japan and oversaw Sega's glory years on arcade and console.


Another thing...This travesty of a book is not the FIRST Sega history book(since its obvious you lot obviously edit the erronous wiki Sega page). There have been Sega history books for years in japan courtesy of Sega Japan and Enterbrain among others.



Couldn't agree with you more. There seems to be a lot of people who equate Sega solely as the Home Console Manufacturer. If anything they should be regarded as an entertainment brand as I can't think of any branch of entertainment that they are not involved in in some capacity.

That's why the common comment of "CompanyX should just buy out Sega already" is just annoying. No understanding of how far their reach actually is.

Yes the moment the japanese took control of Sega that's exactly what they were doing. Consoles in the early eighties were seen as extensions of the toy market..which Sega was also making. You can see the early adverts from japan to see that. If anything the story of sega since the eighties is chasing this dream to become a bonafide entertainment company...by trying and failing to become a rival to Bandai during the eighties...Trying to merge with Bandai which failed in the nineties...then going and building their own susidaries to the point where they actually become the big entertainment company they wanted to be..and then get brought out by a company they didn't want to merge with and becoming the rival and ironically bigger entertainment japan company to bandai..in the noughties. Its always a story of irony with Sega.