Author Topic: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming  (Read 28894 times)

Offline ROJM

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How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« on: September 10, 2010, 09:22:10 am »
It seems everyone here are celebrating the DC at the moment,which isn't really a change since the last white hope is always been celebrated at one point or another.

But I think there's a darker side to the DC story and this particular story hasn't ended because many Sega gamers that brought the system be they new or old are still suffering from what happened with this system.

Not the way it was crushed by sony or the fact it was generally ignored by the gaming public and press at the time. No, what the DC did was spoil a generation of sega fans with excellent games, to the point that those fans expected Sega to keep coming up with titles of the high standard that the DC generation of games set and by doing so any game released after that period regardless of being ok or very good was never going to match the standard which in my opinioon has resulted in people declaring Sega is crap or shit or worse because they weren't as great as the DC.

Not really understanding that previous sega systems with their own libary of games didn't necessarly match the playability,the fun and lastabilty that the DC seemed to have in its abundance.

The games that sega released when they re entered the third party race were very good,most were on the xbox but there were some on the PS2 as well. But if anyone remember's the general reaction to these games from the forums at the time it seemed that sega was over the hill. Worse, people were ignoring their arcade efforts at that time for various reasons and seemed to just focus soley n their console efforts. And that created a false preception which was quickly picked up by overzealous journalists and rival game fans that Sega was a dirty word in terms of game quality, but had the audacity to compare the newer titles to their DC ones which many i may add never brought the DC in the first place. They were just jumping on the bandwagon to the genuine confustion felt by many sega fans at that time.

While the noise has quieted down now, many people are still under a lot of misconceptions about Sega, where or who can make a good game, complaining about Sega west actually making games for the sega brand and so on. Not realising that as long as i've been buying sega games for console at least for over 28 years now they've always kind of operated that way.

Were now approching TGS. And there's a buzz about RGG and VAL and several others. You'd almost think that since they've gone third party those are the only great games they've produced after the DC era. And that criticism isn't leveled at just sega fans but most fans of gaming who frequent gaming forums, who actually take time to play their game and interact on the gaming netspace that 360 and PS3 offer.
Sega is guilty of letting a cat out of a bag but that cat just created an almost hysteria of expectations that no game company can continully live up to. Has sega produced bad games since DC? Yes, but they also produced bad games for all their systems at one point.
The question is was the output of real terrible games more than anything else they released? I'd say no just like any other games company. But no company has the legacy of the DC hanging over their head. A proud legacy to be sure but also a distracting one especially when the guys at sega try to conform to peoples demands on games even though certain games like Sonic, can arguable be said whose quality started to decline long before the DC was a light in Sega's eye.
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Offline crackdude

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2010, 09:52:13 am »
From that perspective, Sonic games have sucked since S3&K but the SA were an exception? That's a quite interesting point of view..

And I agree with all your post.
I always thought that everyone (fans and not) demands way too much from Sega compared to other companies. The reason and theory you're pointing out makes a lot of sense. I've never thought of it that way.

The gaming world has changed a lot in the past 10 years. I do not think Sega will even be able to do what it did with the Dreamcast. But the quality's still there, as Sega as proved in the afteryears. There are a lot of great Sega games being overlooked all the time. Maybe this year's bombastic avalanche of games will turn the tide and make people realize that Sega games are still great.
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Offline Sega Stylista

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2010, 11:24:08 am »
PDCTSD- post dreamcast traumatic stress disorder

The real trauma of dreamcast was the tragedy of seeing a real gamer's game system, the best to ever be produced, annihilated by the corporate steam rollers of Sony and Microsoft and the wave of mainstream gaming fuckwads they brought in replacing the real gamers of old.

It's never been a problem of old vs new Sega; it's a problem of old-school gaming versus mainstream gaming.  Sega like any other company is forced to produce the games that the market will accept and be commercially viable.  I have no doubt that existing Sega developers given free reign today could produce titles that would eclipse the DC era ones in every regard.  The problem is one of commercial acceptance and profitability in a mainstream dominated market forcing Sega to 'corporatize' their game design process with titles acceptable to the mass market first over the demands and wishes of the Sega loyalists; this in total contrast to the freedom of the independent studio DC days.

Demanding fans are an asset not a liability.
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2010, 11:48:43 am »
Games of today that remind me most of Dreamcast games are what we see on XBLA and PSN. Easy pick up and play releases that don't so much provide hours of gameplay in a narrative sense, but rather in a replay sense. Also, loads of unlockable bits. For example, After Burner Climax, Hydro Thunder Hurricane, Outrun Online, Lumines and Pac-Man Championship Edition all could be Dreamcast games.
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Offline fluffymoochicken

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2010, 12:12:11 pm »
Quote
No, what the DC did was spoil a generation of sega fans with excellent games, to the point that those fans expected Sega to keep coming up with titles of the high standard that the DC generation of games set and by doing so any game released after that period regardless of being ok or very good was never going to match the standard which in my opinioon has resulted in people declaring Sega is crap or shit or worse because they weren't as great as the DC.
Lol, if that's what you're driving at, then the name of this thread should have been "How the Dreamcast ruined the lives of a small group of people forever."

The rest of the gaming world outside of the SEGA spectrum has been doing just fine.

Quote
The real trauma of dreamcast was the tragedy of seeing a real gamer's game system, the best to ever be produced, annihilated by the corporate steam rollers of Sony and Microsoft and the wave of mainstream gaming fuckwads they brought in replacing the real gamers of old.
The Dreamcast was my favorite console for a long time. Eventually, though, the PS2 did take that space.

Quote
Games of today that remind me most of Dreamcast games are what we see on XBLA and PSN. Easy pick up and play releases that don't so much provide hours of gameplay in a narrative sense, but rather in a replay sense. Also, loads of unlockable bits. For example, After Burner Climax, Hydro Thunder Hurricane, Outrun Online, Lumines and Pac-Man Championship Edition all could be Dreamcast games.
I totally agree with what you're saying. As retail titles drive further and further away from being "real" games and more towards being hand-holding interactive movies, I find myself buying more and more downloadable titles because they remind me so much of what gaming used to be like.
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2010, 12:22:44 pm »
Funny thing with me is that when I hear about a game having a short playthrough time, I actually want to play it more. Something that is 50+ hours is tough, as I usually can get in only a few hours a week. But when something appears that is being bemoaned for being good but only 10 hours long, it has my attention.

Shenmue is the exception to my rule.
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Offline Orta

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2010, 12:26:03 pm »
There is something I would add to Joe's post. It lies on Sonic Team. Sonic Team used to be Sega's lead console studio. They were what most people considered as Sega's top team and a reference. Less than ten years later and it is what it is. This is unfair to the really good games the company has been producing. But what can you do? Fight general ignorance seeded by idiots such as Kotaku and IGN?
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Offline fluffymoochicken

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2010, 12:37:44 pm »
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Funny thing with me is that when I hear about a game having a short playthrough time, I actually want to play it more. Something that is 50+ hours is tough, as I usually can get in only a few hours a week. But when something appears that is being bemoaned for being good but only 10 hours long, it has my attention.
Oh yeah, totally. I've been saying that I'm going to play stuff like Tokobot and Shining Force EXA for like... 2 weeks? 3 weeks now? But I haven't found much time for gaming at all.

Being old sucks. :P
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Offline Centrale

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2010, 01:01:22 pm »
Quote from: "fluffymoochicken"
As retail titles drive further and further away from being "real" games and more towards being hand-holding interactive movies, I find myself buying more and more downloadable titles because they remind me so much of what gaming used to be like.

Agreed.  Who would have thought that 25 years on from the high scores at the arcade, my interest in gaming would be sustained by essentially the exact same thing... online leaderboards.  The gameplay has evolved in important ways, but the basic drive of competing against your friends, and yourself, in short focused tests of skill, is timeless.

As for the question of length in so-called AAA titles, it's not 60+ hours of immersion that interests me... it's how satisfying a feeling do I get from an hour or two of playing it at a time a couple/few times a week, because that's the most I can devote to gaming.  It's taking me literally months to play through the Yakuza games and Fallout 3.  The type of cinematic game I would hope to see in the future is one with a branching narrative path that always ends within 90-120 minutes and just has tons of different possible endings.  But this would just be a type of game that fills its own niche, not to replace the tried and true forms.
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2010, 02:24:27 pm »
Spoiled, yes. There is no excuse as to why titles such as Skies of Arcadia or Shenmue should have had such a heavy budget as they did. It could have been possible to separate Shenmue's budget into 3, maybe 4 major Sonic games or potentially around 20 Chu Chu Rocket-level titles, which was given away free in some regions even. Why?

I think at least half of all of this should be dropped onto Sonic Team's shoulders though, as Orta brought up. The absolute biggest reason SEGA's image is so poor is because their titles have not delivered for years, not to mention the constant poor PR from them.

Which leads up to other types of PR, like Simon Jeffery. I do not think I need to explain all he did wrong.

More people now prefer cinematic styled games, and SEGA was wary of going down this road again with how Shenmue turned out. They tried to force out stuff like Alpha Protocol (which I do not think is a terrible game at all) and it obviously did not work out the way they wanted to. Of course Yakuza is very cinematic, but that does not really matter to most of the world, and if they plan to keep it only on PlayStation platforms then I cannot see it getting much bigger either.
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2010, 03:17:25 pm »
Oh! Forgot to add: I'd replace "Traumatized" with "Spoiled"

The DC years were like the best piece of cake you could ever eat. This past year has been like a very good piece of cake. Yet most of today's gamers think the really good cake of today tastes like shit compared to the cake of the DC years.
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Offline crackdude

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2010, 04:23:08 pm »
But though everyone is debating on this, you can't deny that Sega fans were indeed spoiled.

I think that the Dreamcast cake was the best ever, but now we have a completely different non-comparable cake.
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Offline Centrale

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2010, 05:31:53 pm »
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
The DC years were like the best piece of cake you could ever eat. This past year has been like a very good piece of cake. Yet most of today's gamers think the really good cake of today tastes like shit compared to the cake of the DC years.

Yes, those are the people known as... shitcakers.
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Offline cube_b3

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2010, 06:49:55 pm »
Well Said Sir, brilliant post Joe.
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Offline fluffymoochicken

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Re: How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2010, 11:40:14 am »
Quote from: "Centrale"
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
The DC years were like the best piece of cake you could ever eat. This past year has been like a very good piece of cake. Yet most of today's gamers think the really good cake of today tastes like shit compared to the cake of the DC years.

Yes, those are the people known as... shitcakers.
Heh...

Barry, "most of today's gamers" didn't even own a Dreamcast, especially not back in its heyday. On top of that, as much as we all love the little white box, the PS2 simply turned out to be better in terms of games by around 2005 or so.

The best piece of gaming cake you could possibly have right now would be the 60 GB launch model PS3, with its ability to play PS1, PS2, and PS3 games, as well as giving you all of its various media functions and whatnot.
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