How Dreamcast Traumatised Gaming

[fluffymoochicken]

Get the train back on track, stop trolling or get a warning.

You'd really give me a warning for something that you've been guilty of actively participating in as well?  :lol: Ooookay... Well, to be honest, I was kind of bored of this topic anyway. So I guess I'll just draw my end of this conversation to a close:

No, the Dreamcast did not traumatize gaming. This topic's title is beyond misleading. It may have traumatized a few people in a very minuscule fanbase, but that's about the extent of it.

That fanbase, itself, is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. It has as little effect on public opinion of SEGA as the Dreamcast had on stopping the PS2.

[Team Andromeda]

I think we can all agree that each major SEGA platform had a lot of greatness on it. Outside of maybe the Master System, each major game console they made has multiple games that people who never even touched can recognize as some of the best, most creative games of all time. That is an accomplishment that many platforms cannot uphold.

I really don't know what most people's problem with the MS is. Its a gem of console, that's always been the but of jokes and overlooked and underrated. Its a far better console than the NES, and If I'm honest I probably enjoyed and rate the console above the Mega Drive. Its just a gem of console with a classic range of games

Also I do think people look back on the DC with just a bit too much rose tinted classes, and I do get a bit sick of the 09.09.99 date . When to me the DC real birthday was the years 1998 (when it launched) and when in a lot of gaming genre's the DC was weaker to that of the Mega Drive or Saturn - namely fighters, shooters (both 2D and 3D), sports, RPG's, Gun games.

[Sega Uranus]

I was not saying anything bad about the Master System, just that it is not as well known for having extremely creative and innovative games that many consider to be the best ever by the general populous, like all of SEGA's other major platforms do. Just calling it like I see it. I love it myself. Probably more than I do the Saturn honestly.

[Team Andromeda]

I was not saying anything bad about the Master System, just that it is not as well known for having extremely creative and innovative games that many consider to be the best ever by the general populous, like all of SEGA's other major platforms do. Just calling it like I see it. I love it myself. Probably more than I do the Saturn honestly.

The Mega Drive doesn't have that many innovative games, nor does the Dreamcast when you really get down to it . There's a couple here and there , but nothing to what the the PS2 or PS can boast really.

I couldn't careless about innovation, its all about the games and how they play. And to me the Saturn , like the Master System feature some of the best and most playable games around. Yet are consoles looked over by most (especially Americans) because the Platforms failed to take off over there (I feel)

I love and still and use my Japanese Launch Dreamcast (it still works fine) but I just think that SEGA as a whole (TA, AM#3, AM#2, Sonic Team, Overworks) and my fav 3rd parties like Treasure, GameArts, RAIZING) were just at their height on the Saturn .
 I was talking to my mate who runs the Import shop the other day, and its seemed with the death of the Saturn, Part of the likes of Technosoft, Game Arts, Treasure, RAIZING died too- Gamearts and Treasure just haven't been the same (for me)

Sad really , Looking game. I feel the SEGA Saturn was the last great Die-Hard gamers console.

[ROJM]

Thanks Sanus (+5 dharma points). It would be very stupid of me to jump on a hater bandwagon when I have no real life reason or experiences to lead me to hate something.

Okay, Barry, so I've had 3 busted Dreamcasts in my life, as well as seen  friend's DC that was malfunctional straight out of the box.

Does that mean it's fair for me to hate the DC and love the PS2 for that reason then? After all, in the 8 years I've had my PS2, it's never broken on me. And don't try to dodge this question, either; give it a straight yes or no answer.

Yet this is the guy who can't give any straight answers to well executed game designs on the PS2. And first you've had to have at least OWNED a DC for it to break down which i very much doubt. Sony's PS2 breakdown record is not only a fact but a famous one, Anyone apart from you knows that so trying to make out that your "Dc's" broke down to excuse Sony's is sad. Sony had more breakdowns than any console in recorded history, only the 360 would be a close second to it. The fact that someone like Shinji Mikami went on radio and criticised Sony for its unreliable consoles years ago goes to show how bad it was.

No you didn't own a DC at 99 so stop lying to me and to yourself.

Yep, any credibility you might have had just went flying through the window. :lol: I saved up for the console myself and got it along with Sonic Adventure, Soul Calibur, and Marvel vs. Capcom. Then I ran out and got Power Stone after playing the awesome demo on the DC Generator disc that came with the system. I bought ODCM issue #1 off of a newsstand around August of 1999 and got a subscription to it immediately, and I still play around with those demo discs I got every now and then. 2000 was possibly the best gaming year of my life; I was totally obsessed with this marvelous system to the point that it drove other people nuts when I blabbed on and on about it. I didn't want to believe the rumors that SEGA was going to drop out of the race. This was too good of a thing to stop.

But, you know how many other gamer friends of mine gave a shit about Dreamcast at the time? Nobody. Nobody at all. Everyone knew that it was going to be steamrolled by the PS2, and nobody wanted to get one at first. A few of them even made fun of me for buying one back in '99. I had to convince them over the next year that it was a great console. By the end of 2000, it was like the go-to party game machine. 8-)

That story is completly and utterly madeup. I'm sorry but you are the very "bandwagon" jumpers that the article refers to. Trying to prove that you were there by coming up with some personal story of getting the games and then using it as a legitmate reason to show distain. If you really brought that system there is no way in hell you'd think the PS2 was a better machine with better games. No way mate just no way in hell. So stop lying to yourself because you're fooling no one.  

That the DC online service was better to the PS2 which was barely non-exsistant?

Question: Have you ever even played PS2 games online before? Because I haven't, and I've only ever known one person who has. How could you draw comparisons to something that virtually no one has experience with?

Why not? Sony made a big song and dance about its online service as well as its DVD inclusion for the PS2 which was part of the reason people waited to buy the PS2 over the DC instead. Yet the very thing which was supposed to make it superior was an utter disaster with crap games, a cack service and it didn't even come out until way after it was on the market and by then the Xbox was not only already out it had a better online mode to boot. A period of nearly three years the much vaulted online mode didn't exist and then came out with shooddy tech and service when it did.  that too me was one of the biggest con jobs in gaming history to have ever taken place and the biggest vapourware ever to come out.

As for DC's online, it wasn't that great in retrospect. The games I tried playing online had way too much lag in them to be considered fair tests of competitive skill. Bomberman Online was the worst example of this. A lot of the times, I'd win/lose without really knowing what the hell happened. I guess the horrific lag might have been acceptable in games that were more cooperative oriented, but I didn't own any of those.

Well its hard to play the DC online now that its defunct. Too bad you didn't buy it at the time you should have because then you'd know half that story is bull, especially when at that period it would have been many gamers first foray into online gaming.

The only way I could imagine having a good competitive experience on the DC is if a person forked over the 100 bucks for the broadband adapter and then went out to find other players who also had the adapter.

Yet the BB adapter was a limited run and came way too late in the DC's span to really make a splash(as well as way too soon for the consumers to jump towards BB in general) Again another example of someone using hindsight of recorded events instead of actually being there and experiencing them.

So yeah... the DC might have had online out of the box, but it wasn't particularly great online gaming out of the box, either.

Better than the PS2 version which was the point.

That the great DC game designs were much better executed than the PS2 ones?

Only in your warped gaming fantasy world that exists outside of actual reality. :lol:

Yet you STILL haven't made any comparisions on any PS2 title that were original with their game designs and executed them better. Again solidifying my point that you can't because deep down you KNOW that sega had better game designs and then you'd eexpect us to believe you were a DC fan at the actual period of the time. You are acting like many others of your ilk a johnny come lately who in order to make themselves crediable has to say they owned a DC at the time when its clear to some here that you haven't.  You're calling me warped for thinking that the sega DC titles are better in game design than the PS2? That's the opinion of half the people in here. That's probably the opinion of a lot of worthwhile gaming historians as well especially when we look at the big picture hardly anyone including those basted pro game sites and the real good ones hardly ever praise the PS2 and its games with as much passion and vigour and as frequent as they do with the DC and that's when its not the DC's anniversary.

Now I've wasted too much time on you, kid. Go back to your PS loving forums and remember how you ingrates ruined gaming for the rest of us.

[ROJM]

I was not saying anything bad about the Master System, just that it is not as well known for having extremely creative and innovative games that many consider to be the best ever by the general populous, like all of SEGA's other major platforms do. Just calling it like I see it. I love it myself. Probably more than I do the Saturn honestly.

Stop wasting time on him SU. If you said the sky was blue he'd come up with 40 different reasons why the sky isn't blue even though the bloody thing is staring at him in the face. he's just saying it just to stand out and be different to the rest of us "lesser mortals."
We all know the DC games from Sega was Sega at their peak and the actual system itself was quite good as well. This is a fact which isn't worth debating about and not a handful of sega titles on the saturn no matter how good they are will negate that fact.

[MadeManG74]

This thread has gone mad. I should lock this... but it's kinda like watching a really bad movie.

[Barry the Nomad]

I'd say keep it open, mainly because we have a front page story leading to this same discussion. As long as we all ignore fluffy (remember folks, we have a handy "Friends & Foes" feature), he'll eventually find another topic to troll and let ROJM's topic continue on track.

[Team Andromeda]

We all know the DC games from Sega was Sega at their peak and the actual system itself was quite good as well

Stop being so bloody insulting . You start off a great thread and then go in to your usual insulting rants . There's quite a few that SEGA was at their best with the Mega Drive, for others its the Saturn and for other's its the Dreamcast. Lots of gamers have different views on which system they like best, be they SEGA or NCL fans (to most its the Snes, to others its the N64) or what ever.

I happen to like Traditional Shooters (My Fav Genre) , Gun Games, RPG's, FPS's  and Sports games. SEGA and the Saturn were pretty mighty in those genre's.  

A period of nearly three years the much vaulted online mode didn't exist and then came out with shooddy tech and service when it did. that too me was one of the biggest con jobs in gaming history to have ever taken place and the biggest vapourware ever to come out

Most of what you say is quite correct, and I too hate all the SONY lines over the PS2 Network .
 But they were a great number of PS2 games that were online, and some that even played well too This Is Football 2004/5 was very impressive Online (with very little lag, and being able to handle more than 4 players online, more than most football games at the time ). Yes to the X-Box they were a complete joke, but that goes with out saying, X-Box LIVE since its launch has been the best online service there is .

Mind you out of all the lies with the PS2, its On-line promises were the worst

Too bad you didn't buy it at the time you should have because then you'd know half that story is bull, especially when at that period it would have been many gamers first foray into online gaming.

There were quite a few DC games that suffered from Lag from time to time. It was just the nature of the network at the time, One gets lag in Online games now on the 360 or PS2. I really don't get this at the time

 I couldn't play NFL 2k1 online at all (never once was able to play a game online), had to play Daytona USA 2001 (at 2am Fridays Nights to be lag free , and it really did work) and the likes of Alien Front Online , Quake III, Unreal Tournament (amazing fun).
Ok in most cases I was on USA serves and using USA imports , but one would still get lag in games like Quake III, and playing the likes of Bomberman, Ooga booga, Out Trigger just a bit of a nightmare for lag

PSO was pretty much lag free.

But there was Lag on the DC games, but that was to be expected and the downfalls of Dial Up, there again lag was a Huge problem in Japanese developed X-Box Live games


But yes for me the 1st time I played games Online was with my DC, and still remember to this day my mates jaws dropping and couldn't quite believe how I was playing games like Quake III and PSO with players from around the world.  

I'm sure anyone that played PSO Online on the DC remembers just how magical and how so very special it was ,when it 1st launched.

[Sharky]

Hey, please no personal attack! (Everyone)

[ROJM]

We all know the DC games from Sega was Sega at their peak and the actual system itself was quite good as well

Stop being so bloody insulting . You start off a great thread and then go in to your usual insulting rants . There's quite a few that SEGA was at their best with the Mega Drive, for others its the Saturn and for other's its the Dreamcast. Lots of gamers have different views on which system they like best, be they SEGA or NCL fans (to most its the Snes, to others its the N64) or what ever.

I happen to like Traditional Shooters (My Fav Genre) , Gun Games, RPG's, FPS's  and Sports games. SEGA and the Saturn were pretty mighty in those genre's.  

Stop over reacting FFS, if i was insulting you, you'd know about it. And this isn't a disscussion on personal opinion on whether the Dc was the best system or the saturn was really. Its general concesus that the DC was Sega at their very peak. That's it. My personal opinion would be the MD but were not talking about fave systems were talking specifically about an aftermath of a great system which had an exceptional list of games. Were talking about historical facts So there is no need to act like Fluff who's trolling and start banging on about your saturn crusade just to be different from the rest just to get a reaction. Which is what i believe is what you're doing. Stick to the topic at hand.

A period of nearly three years the much vaulted online mode didn't exist and then came out with shooddy tech and service when it did. that too me was one of the biggest con jobs in gaming history to have ever taken place and the biggest vapourware ever to come out

Most of what you say is quite correct, and I too hate all the SONY lines over the PS2 Network .
 But they were a great number of PS2 games that were online, and some that even played well too This Is Football 2004/5 was very impressive Online (with very little lag, and being able to handle more than 4 players online, more than most football games at the time ). Yes to the X-Box they were a complete joke, but that goes with out saying, X-Box LIVE since its launch has been the best online service there is .

Mind you out of all the lies with the PS2, its On-line promises were the worst

Yet if you'd read the response post that started this distraction with fluffy, compared to the DC it pales in comparison. Which still is true. by the time xbox came out the online service sony used was too late and out of date. But as i said a distraction because it wasn't what i initially wanted to talk about or degrade the thread into who was the better system.

There were quite a few DC games that suffered from Lag from time to time. It was just the nature of the network at the time, One gets lag in Online games now on the 360 or PS2. I really don't get this at the time

 I couldn't play NFL 2k1 online at all (never once was able to play a game online), had to play Daytona USA 2001 (at 2am Fridays Nights to be lag free , and it really did work) and the likes of Alien Front Online , Quake III, Unreal Tournament (amazing fun).
Ok in most cases I was on USA serves and using USA imports , but one would still get lag in games like Quake III, and playing the likes of Bomberman, Ooga booga, Out Trigger just a bit of a nightmare for lag

PSO was pretty much lag free.

But there was Lag on the DC games, but that was to be expected and the downfalls of Dial Up, there again lag was a Huge problem in Japanese developed X-Box Live games


But yes for me the 1st time I played games Online was with my DC, and still remember to this day my mates jaws dropping and couldn't quite believe how I was playing games like Quake III and PSO with players from around the world.  

I'm sure anyone that played PSO Online on the DC remembers just how magical and how so very special it was ,when it 1st launched.

But that wasn't the point. The point was online (let's leave out the saturn) was new to gamers who brought consoles at the time and it could only work with what was really available at the time. Granted  i remember some people made an issue of the choice of modem sega used for the DC at the time which sega obviously planned to slove with the BB adaptor but the point was that Flff seems to be using what were use to now with the 360 and everything to what was alvalible back then. BB was only really starting to become widely alvailble to people in general so lag time and that element would have been normal considering what sega had to deal with  what was around at the time. No denying it had issues but the reality of whose online service was better i think we all know that.

Now let's get back topic wise.

[Team Andromeda]

Were talking about historical facts So there is no need to act like Fluff who's trolling and start banging on about your saturn crusade just to be different from the rest just to get a reaction

What historical facts are these ?. The DC didn't change gaming for the masses at all, The sad reality is there were all hopelessly caught up in MGS 2 hype and PS2 to give the Dreamcast much of a chance.

And pointing out that SEGA were for me better on the Saturn isn't trolling at all, its how I feel, there's quite a few people that like Saturn, not to be different , but because they tend to be shooter fans , or 2D Fighter fans, and the Saturn was mighty in those regards.

Yet if you'd read the response post that started this distraction with fluffy, compared to the DC it pales in comparison

Look there was a huge number of games that supported Online Network on the PS2, more than for the DC I'm willing to bet (just down to the PS2 insane 3rd party support) .
People might take the piss out of the PS2 network (and I'm one of them) but TIF 2005 supported 8 players online (more than any other football game at the time) as well as more MMRPG's than what MS can boast even now,  with EverQuest and the likes of FF 12 , as well as the Only Online version of Resident Evil (at the time) .

SEGA deserver all the credit in the world , for being 1st with Online has standard and even true 1st's like its classic downloads PC-Eng/Mega Drive range (which as since been copied by SONY, MS and NCL) But The DC network support was limited and prone to lag (due to dial up) perfectly natural given it was early basic steps into the world of Online gaming.

To me what was really special about the DC was how it was such a leap in Power over anything out there at the time, for the 1st time a console with more power than the latest coin ups .
How it was the 1st to suppport VGA, how its transformed USA sport gaming for ever (and I mean forever),  with Visual Concepts (games that looked and moved so good it was like watching TV) and then VC took that to the real next level and gave American Online NFL matches. It was incredible to read the reactions on the Web and the reviews, they were great times , my mate used to keep on saying if you squint your eye's a bit , its watching the NFL on TV (and it really was)

So it was when JSR 1st shipped- which to me is the most SEGA game ever created , I still remember very well  phoning my mate and saying REZ is the 2nd Best game SEGA ever made,  and how you must BUY IT (great times) We all have so many happy memories of the Dreamcast, but I still like my Saturn far more. Not to be cool or some how Anti .

But because SAGA, VF II, Decathlete (who else but SEGA could make a sports game like that) SEGA Rally, Panzer Dragon Zwei, Burning Rangers , Astal, Worldwide Soccer 98, was SEGA at their very best, but to some that was the Mega Drive with games like Sonic, Shinobi Mickey Mouse ECT .

[Sieghardt]

Another problem sega will always have is catering to an ever expanding list of IPs. Every year we demand sequels to everything ever and also new IPs. and there are people who will hate the new IPs for not being sequels to old games and people who will hate sequels for not being new IPs. and even IF they managed to do both there are people who dont want sequels or new IPs and just want direct ports of old games for eternity. Right now I see people who dont care how amazing PSO2 will be they want Phantasy Star 5 or a direct port of gamecube PSO etc

[Orta]

I'd say keep it open, mainly because we have a front page story leading to this same discussion. As long as we all ignore fluffy (remember folks, we have a handy "Friends & Foes" feature), he'll eventually find another topic to troll and let ROJM's topic continue on track.

Or you could simply ban him.

[Sega Uranus]

I do not think Sony messed up with online stuff on the PlayStation 2, they just did not plan it at the start. It is like how the Xbox 360 is getting forced into Kinect and it all gets awkward and seems to be a waste of people in many peoples opinions. Just like PlayStation Network fixed a lot of stuff, the next console will do it all better because they will not be firing blind anymore and have a small idea of how to work it, I am sure.

When you purchased the PlayStation 2 modem you would get Twisted Metal Black Online free, that was pretty cool. There were also some titles based online that were pretty popular, like Metal Gear, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Jak X and for whatever reason, SOCOM. All of this was nothing compared to SEGA's attempts on the Dreamcast, or arguably even the Saturn, but I would not consider it a failure, like GameCube's!

I'd say keep it open, mainly because we have a front page story leading to this same discussion. As long as we all ignore fluffy (remember folks, we have a handy "Friends & Foes" feature), he'll eventually find another topic to troll and let ROJM's topic continue on track.

Or you could simply ban him.

What a novel concept!