Sonic Generations General Discussion

[Team Andromeda]

Obviously the departure of staff half way through development will hurt the project.

It is common sense, 10 members in addition to Naka left the company that is a big number.

The most amazing thing about Naka is he will never defend himself, he simply doesn't comment. We've heard STI members bitch about him all the time, now we are hearing Iizuka taking him down for Sonic 06 even though Naka isn't credited for the game but crap after his departure such as NiGHTS, Black Knight, Unleashed had nothing to do with Naka.

06 was started on Naka watch, so was PSU and right  at the start there was issues with what would be the lead Paltofrm and getting a Multi platform engine to work on all format (the lead PC teh was ace sadly enough)  , It's also  not like bad Sonic games or spin off's weren't released under Naka (Shadow for 1). The SEGA board  also needs to take the blame for the mess that was Sonic 06, like  getting in Masahiro Kumono to handle the project and being totally out of his depth is terms of handling a massive Team and massive budget (not taking him off the game, when it was clear it was too much)  and for the silly and needless 15th anniversary tie in (which meant the game had to ship no matter what) and just added the development chaos

Its a shame because Sonic 06 could have been a great Sonic game , much like Sonic X - Both games hurt by horrendous top level management decisions


 Also I'll completely disagree with you over Nights JITD (its a nice game, but again one that hand development issues) and Sonic Unleashed ( I think it's brilliant) even Black Knight is a good game (technically ace) it's just really not a Sonic game at hear .   

[Barry the Nomad]

I always found the concept of a 15th anniversary celebration (in terms of franchises) to be pretty stupid. I mean, 10 and 20, I understand. But 15 doesn't really seem like a milestone. Is every 5 years supposed to be a big deal? until you hit 20, celebrating the 5th or 15th is stupid. At least a 25th is a quarter of a century.

Yeah, SEGA should have ignored the 15th anniversary, given the game a different title (Sonic Next? Sonic Wildfire?) and pushed it to 2007. At least then it would have had more development time, it wouldn't have had the "anniversary" expectations and wouldn't sully the name of the original game. Basically it would have been less shit and perhaps even (gasp!) decent? Sort of like the difference between a punch to the stomach and a kick in the nuts. I'd prefer a punch in the stomach.

[Waffle]

'Die Sonic-fans' is a very agreeable title!

And as usual, Iizuka is lying and being an arse to everyone. It is not Naka's fault that Sonic is a horrible franchise now. Naka never designed Sonic Adventure 2 (theme more-so than quality), Sonic Heroes, and Shadow the Hedgehog - Iizuka did. Sonic 06 was flawed in concept, so even with Naka it would have been a failure ultimately.

I will even say that I played Sonic 06 more than I played Sonic Colours - their most recent console release. While Sonic Colours is technically better in every regard (ignoring Wii limitations), it is also one of the most boring Sonic games I have ever played. At least Sonic 06 had ideas that could have been fun, but instead were weighted down by glitches, a horrible setting/story, and non-Sonic stories (Shadow's vechicles, Silver's mind powers... neither of these are Sonic series gameplay).

As for never being disappointed... that is a good joke. Even the people who like Sonic Generations are certain the 3DS one will be horrible.

[Autosaver]

Its a shame because Sonic 06 could have been a great Sonic game , much like Sonic X - Both games hurt by horrendous top level management decisions

..Sonic X was a game?

As for never being disappointed... that is a good joke. Even the people who like Sonic Generations are certain the 3DS one will be horrible.

Ugh.. horrible? A lot of people praised the Modern Sonic sections and the biggest issue I saw with people was with Classic upgraded Sonic 4 Sonic. And again, Sega has said a lot of the issues would be ironed out by release since it was an early build. What have we seen so far? Green Hill? I'm betting there is a newer build somewhere.

Oh, and at least the 3DS version won't be city city city city city.

[Skateboard]

I would be careful with a hasty understanding of what is said here. Especially since the interviewer and Mr. Iizuka / Mr. Naka aren’t native speakers.

Here is a quick! translation of two segments:

Magazine: Mr Iizuka, you accompanied Sonic during his high points with Sonic 3 or Sonic Adventure as well as during his low points since 2005. Still, you managed to carry him through this hard time and make him popular again. How did you realize that Sonic was taking a wrong direction and how did you correct it?

Iizuka: “To be able to talk about the “low points”, as you name it, we have to look somewhat at the internals. At around 2005/2006 Mr. Naka left SEGA. At that time I was in the USA and didn’t return to Japan until 2008 to look thoroughly at the projects by myself. That’s why there was some kind of gap between the time Mr. Naka left SEGA and my return to Japan.
In hindsight one could say that the producers by this time weren’t sure which direction Sonic should take. The feedback* of the fans back then was the most negative to date. The feedback gathered that Sonic evolves into a wrong direction.

When I returned to Japan I received the entire power of decision for the Sonic games and the brand itself. My answers to the feedback were the games of 2010. We had Sonic 4, Sonic Colours and we will have Sonic Generations in the near future. All those titles are the consequence of the new structure where I have the full power to decide. We promise to never disappoint our fans again!

[…]

Iizuka: We have currently no plan to develop Nights for the 3DS, but should our fans really want it, then we will (probably / indeed!) make it.

*I used the term feedback, because it fits best.

[Radrappy]

I will even say that I played Sonic 06 more than I played Sonic Colours - their most recent console release. While Sonic Colours is technically better in every regard (ignoring Wii limitations), it is also one of the most boring Sonic games I have ever played. At least Sonic 06 had ideas that could have been fun

What is it that makes Colors boring?  Is it because there is little to no violence and it doesn't have a weeaboo plot?  Just accept that it's the best sonic game we've gotten for the past ten years(including SA2, yes) and move on.  I honestly doubt Generations will top it too(but hope it does!), seeing as how the modern segments are copy/pasted from Unleashed.  Do you find mario games boring?  If so, then I guess that answers the question more or less.   

And 06 had ideas that could have been fun?  If you don't mind me asking, what ideas are these?

Off topic but welcome back Kogen, we miss you at GHZ.   

[Chaosmaster8753]

I think a pretty obvious thing to say is that the "low points" could be attributed to being around the aftermath of Dreamcast's discontinuation. From what I understand, Heroes was designed the way it was to appeal to a larger crowd then the crowd that would want a Sonic Adventure 3, playing the PS2 version kind of shows how inexperienced they were at multi-platform games.

[Waffle]

When I returned to Japan I received the entire power of decision for the Sonic games and the brand itself. My answers to the feedback were the games of 2010. We had Sonic 4, Sonic Colours and we will have Sonic Generations in the near future. All those titles are the consequence of the new structure where I have the full power to decide. We promise to never disappoint our fans again!

Thanks for the translation! It makes it clear that Iizuka is the core problem and needs to be removed before Sonic games can ever be good. I guess he either gets fired, or we wait 20 years until he retires or chokes on something.

Iizuka: We have currently no plan to develop Nights for the 3DS, but should our fans really want it, then we will (probably / indeed!) make it.

... uh oh!

..Sonic X was a game?

Ugh.. horrible? A lot of people praised the Modern Sonic sections and the biggest issue I saw with people was with Classic upgraded Sonic 4 Sonic. And again, Sega has said a lot of the issues would be ironed out by release since it was an early build. What have we seen so far? Green Hill? I'm betting there is a newer build somewhere.

Oh, and at least the 3DS version won't be city city city city city.

He means Sonic Xtreme.

As for Modern Sonic on 3DS: I have not seen the praise. Negative comments are the clear majority, maybe you looked at Sonic Stadium or some similar place. And yes, these are from the same people who say the console version looks amazing.

What is it that makes Colors boring?  Is it because there is little to no violence and it doesn't have a weeaboo plot?  Just accept that it's the best sonic game we've gotten for the past ten years(including SA2, yes) and move on.  I honestly doubt Generations will top it too(but hope it does!), seeing as how the modern segments are copy/pasted from Unleashed.  Do you find mario games boring?  If so, then I guess that answers the question more or less.   

And 06 had ideas that could have been fun?  If you don't mind me asking, what ideas are these?

I am not entirely sure what makes it boring, I just simply never had fun with it. It does not feel at all like a Sonic game, although I do enjoy platformers in general, so I guess it is just not a fun game in concept? Additionally I had some control issues, such as awkward button layout, Sonic being very tiny and too fast (I cannot see or control it too well), and the jumping is strange (floats sort of, 'swims' under water, have to hold the button). I also do not like the Unleashed Sonic very much, so I get annoyed whenever I cannot roll down hills or have to stop to crawl under things.

As for the plot, it certainly needed more obese men with excess facial hair. Robotnik never had nearly enough screen time. It also lacked bestiality, which is disappointing. I really wanted to see Madonna have her way with Sonic.

And in the last 10 years this is the best game? Hmm... nope! I enjoyed Sonic Pocket Adventure and Sonic Advance far more than this. Even Sonic Advance 2 was fun sometimes, though the gameplay aged bad. Some of the spinoffs are better than Sonic Colours too, but I guess those can be ignored due to not being platformers. The only thing I can praise about Colours is that it is not a mess or filled with awkward Archie-like content - other than that I equally have about as much interest in it as I do with Sonic Heroes. I also do not think the Mad World writers are good and I am sure they will have something bad for Sonic Generations (seems like Colour a Dinosaur's plot so far).

As for Mario, sure, I enjoy that! Well at least Galaxy 2, New Super Mario Bros games are OK but not very creative.

Off topic but welcome back Kogen, we miss you at GHZ.   

Make an online petition.

[Trippled]

Iizuka just seems kinda ignorant to me. He basicilly saying that the Riders, Storybook games and Unleashed are the absolute worst Sonic games and it should all be blamed on those games, and that the game that he made in the US( Heroes, Shadow, NiGHTS 2) are a-Ok( or even good in his Mind). Especially how he talks that people would happily take another NiGHTS game after the Sequel that he made.

Its a shame because Sonic 06 could have been a great Sonic game , much like Sonic X - Both games hurt by horrendous top level management decisions

Except one was prevented to be realesed. Would have been a good thing for 06, it would create another sort of 32/64 Bit Era of Sonic were just bunch of oddball Sonic games were relased before the next Main Sonic game.
Shadow the Hedgehog, Secret Rings, Sonic Riders and Sonic Unleashed being the comeback title like Sonic Adventure. Black Knight could be the inbetween spin-off like Shuffle, and Colors be Sonic Adventure 2.

[CosmicCastaway]

Hopefully we'll see a trailer for Chemical Plant soon, I'm anxious to see what it'll look like in motion.

[Radrappy]

And in the last 10 years this is the best game? Hmm... nope! I enjoyed Sonic Pocket Adventure and Sonic Advance far more than this. Even Sonic Advance 2 was fun sometimes, though the gameplay aged bad. Some of the spinoffs are better than Sonic Colours too, but I guess those can be ignored due to not being platformers. The only thing I can praise about Colours is that it is not a mess or filled with awkward Archie-like content - other than that I equally have about as much interest in it as I do with Sonic Heroes. I also do not think the Mad World writers are good and I am sure they will have something bad for Sonic Generations (seems like Colour a Dinosaur's plot so far).

I always forget the portable games(and truly, the ones you listed are probably better games than colors) but I meant to in reference to the franchise's main console offerings.  I don't know what is is that doesn't catch your interest about Colors but I think most people would definitely crown it a much higher quality game than Heroes.  And by spin offs, what game(s) are you referring to.  Surely you don't think Riders, Secret Rings, or Black knight are better games.  That would be laughable.  Sonic and Sega all stars Racing, MAYBE.  But that was a racing game and probably shouldn't count as you mentioned.   

[Team Andromeda]

And as usual, Iizuka is lying and being an arse to everyone. It is not Naka's fault that Sonic is a horrible franchise now. Naka never designed Sonic Adventure 2 (theme more-so than quality), Sonic Heroes, and Shadow the Hedgehog - Iizuka did. Sonic 06 was flawed in concept, so even with Naka it would have been a failure ultimately.

What is this ?  No Naka didn't design  (not that he ever did) or even program any of the Sonic titles (pre 32bit) his just produced them, exactly his role on the Sonic Adv 1 and II.

Sonic Adv and Adv II are top quality games and both designed by Iizuka-san

It makes it clear that Iizuka is the core problem and needs to be removed before Sonic games can ever be good. I guess he either gets fired

Look past the ridiculous  end part of your post . I'll just put to you as well as being the lead designer on Saturn NiGHTS , Iizuka-san is also behind or worked on some of the best Sonic games  be that Sonic III, Sonic R, Sonic Adv (for me the best and most true Sonic game ever made) Sonic Jam, Sonic Adv II.

The big trouble that most people in the Sonic team have faced (bar some of their own silly moves) is that every Sonic game was usually made with a 2 year window and no matter what would have to make it out every fall , when the series has been in a need for a reboot for years and as the likes of Big Reboots like RE 4, Tomb Raider, hell even Ghost Recon show some reboots take time and need to be pushed back for quality reasons something that was beyond the SEGA Top brass for far too long

[Waffle]

I always forget the portable games(and truly, the ones you listed are probably better games than colors) but I meant to in reference to the franchise's main console offerings.  I don't know what is is that doesn't catch your interest about Colors but I think most people would definitely crown it a much higher quality game than Heroes.  And by spin offs, what game(s) are you referring to.  Surely you don't think Riders, Secret Rings, or Black knight are better games.  That would be laughable.  Sonic and Sega all stars Racing, MAYBE.  But that was a racing game and probably shouldn't count as you mentioned.   

I put more time into Battle and Chronicles than I did Colours, although I doubt I would play them now. Both of these games I beat twice at least. And SEGA Racing as you mentioned is better. I also think I played Rush Adventure more.

I just cannot praise Colours. I beat it once, it felt like work half the time, then I put it on my shelf. That is not what I consider a good purchase. It was not too hard or frustrating, it was simply boring. During cutscenes I ended up doing other things due to how disinterested I was. They made Sonic and Tails so utterly boring, and I never thought the kiddy Robotnik robots were funny either.

What is this ?  No Naka didn't design  (not that he ever did) or even program any of the Sonic titles (pre 32bit) his just produced them, exactly his role on the Sonic Adv 1 and II.

Sonic Adv and Adv II are top quality games and both designed by Iizuka-san

Look past the ridiculous  end part of your post . I'll just put to you as well as being the lead designer on Saturn NiGHTS , Iizuka-san is also behind or worked on some of the best Sonic games  be that Sonic III, Sonic R, Sonic Adv (for me the best and most true Sonic game ever made) Sonic Jam, Sonic Adv II.

The big trouble that most people in the Sonic team have faced (bar some of their own silly moves) is that every Sonic game was usually made with a 2 year window and no matter what would have to make it out every fall , when the series has been in a need for a reboot for years and as the likes of Big Reboots like RE 4, Tomb Raider, hell even Ghost Recon show some reboots take time and need to be pushed back for quality reasons something that was beyond the SEGA Top brass for far too long

I do not think Iizuka's work is well. He only did good on Nights and Adventure because he had babysitters at Sonic Team. Once he was given a chance to do whatever he wanted, he made embarrassing trash. Sonic Team also gets 2 - 3 years to make games, which is enough time for others. Yakuza and Platinum Games games manage to do it in short periods with high reviewed games, so why not Sonic Team? Games like Sonic 4 also had barely any content and were made in a longer period than any Sonic Genesis game.

[Team Andromeda]

He only did good on Nights and Adventure because he had babysitters at Sonic Team.

He was in complete control of Sonic Adv and the lead designer of NiGHTS

Sonic Team also gets 2 - 3 years to make games, which is enough time for others. Yakuza and Platinum Games games manage to do it in short periods with high reviewed games, so why not Sonic Team?

Is there any point in having a debate with you ?.  Sonic Team got 2 years and for most games that is fine, That is not fine for games which have developed issues or are in need of a serious reboot. In those conditions a soft release schedule is called for

Games like Sonic 4 also had barely any content and were made in a longer period than any Sonic Genesis game.

The whole point of Sonic IV was to give uses a 16 bit title in feel, look and gameplay and for the most part, that's exactly what they got

[Waffle]

Is there any point in having a debate with you ?

No when you consider how illiterate you are. Sonic 'IV' is also not even close to Genesis quality/style.