So... Has anyone noticed... (Sega/Sonic related)

[Centrale]

So what is SEGA about Total War other than the legal paper work?

Didn't you already start a thread about your conflicted Total War feelings?  There's already a full page of responses as to what is Sega about Total War.

The whole thing about the relative Sega-ness of titles they publish by other developers in my eyes, is that they are selected by Sega for their artistry and technical prowess, as well as their potential commercial appeal.  

But rather than constantly defend this position that Sega-published games are real Sega games, I would like to turn things around and find where people with your opinion actually draw the ideological line.  What is truly pure Sega?  Only internally-developed titles, so you say.  But what about employees who have been hired by Sega after previously spending years working for other developers?  There are certainly some Capcom immigrants skulking around in the Sega complex... touching monitor screens and leaving sticky residue on the keyboards.  Surely they're diluting the Sega genepool.  They need to be... how to put this tastefully?... at the very least quarantined, if not somehow 'disappeared' in order to maintain the purity of Sega blood.  You see what monsters you truly are?  Welcome to your own personal slippery slope of digital genocide, people.  I hope you're happy.

[Sharky]

The whole thing about the relative Sega-ness of titles they publish by other developers in my eyes, is that they are selected by Sega for their artistry and technical prowess, as well as their potential commercial appeal.  

But rather than constantly defend this position that Sega-published games are real Sega games, I would like to turn things around and find where people with your opinion actually draw the ideological line.  What is truly pure Sega?  Only internally-developed titles, so you say.  But what about employees who have been hired by Sega after previously spending years working for other developers?  There are certainly some Capcom immigrants skulking around in the Sega complex... touching monitor screens and leaving sticky residue on the keyboards.  Surely they're diluting the Sega genepool.  They need to be... how to put this tastefully?... at the very least quarantined, if not somehow 'disappeared' in order to maintain the purity of Sega blood.  You see what monsters you truly are?  Welcome to your own personal slippery slope of digital genocide, people.  I hope you're happy.

Thankyou!

Frankly I'm starting to hate this 'IS IT SEGA OR ISNT IT' bullcrap I read on forums these days. Sega is not a god or an entity, it's a videogame company made of individual people... People that come and go all the time. The company is only as good as its work force.

The Total War studio is owned, funded and all the employees paid by the Sega company... What exactly isn't Sega about it?

Some of Segas most 'Sega', games weren't developed by Sega... Shining Force, Comix Zone, Streets of Rage, Wonderboy... The list is huge.

I swear some people seem to believe that the employees at Sega were all conceived and raised by the Sega corporation and anyone else simply isn't 'Sega'. I bet MOST of Segas employees at any point in history worked at another video game company before Sega.

[Sega Uranus]

Come on guys. This is silly.

I will start with Bayonetta, which not only has SEGA references, but had people all over from inside the company helping design elements of the game. H., Takenobu Mitsuyoshi, even Toshihiro Nagoshi had some input in the overall design of the product, from everything from art to music. Vanquish even has enemies from Space Harrier in it, come on, that is pretty freaking awesome!

Yet something like Valkyria Chronicles honestly reminds me of almost nothing of what SEGA has ever done, if anything it reminds me more of stuff like Final Fantasy Tactics and some similar games, and some of the people who actually worked on games like that make Valkyria now. Does this make it less of a SEGA game somehow? No, it is SEGA no matter what we do or say, and always will be.

On Total War... Come on. SEGA owns the company, the franchise, and many of the people who work on the series now were moved from other SEGA studios or never had a job previously. How is this somehow not SEGA?

This argument is turning into "Only creative Japanese games that I like are worthy of SEGA's name". It is no better than the kind of shitty arguments Fluffy used to throw out just to get attention, and has no reason to continue.

[cube_b3]

Simon Jeffery and Bernie Stolar didn't even belong at SEGA in my book and that is why they caused so much damage. Mike Hayes on the other hand is some one who climbed the SEGA corporate ladder and we all love him.

Sumo Digital is not a SEGA studio, but they worked with SEGA long enough to establish a place in the hearts of SEGA fans before they were allowed to make original games with SEGA Characters and we all love him and accept them as 100% SEGA.

With this Total War studio you have more than a few people who don't accept them why is that?

Difference in ideology, from a business stand point you stand 100% correct, they are SEGA. But every corporation has a mode of operation and inserting someone from a different place will show a difference inserting that idiot Jeffery lead to SEGA releasing more crappy license software than ever before, it isn't like SEGA never made a license game or a bad license game but with him all the games he commisoned were disasters or average at best, but they brought in cash so SEGA continued making shitty games as evident with Thor (hopefully his curse will end now).

Similarly Total War is a game that brings in money from a segment SEGA previously did not cater to, unlike the license games they don't suck. However they don't feel like SEGA games they feel like Creative Assembly games, just like Platinum Games feel like Capcom games where as Sumo Digital games feel like SEGA games.

Look let's agree to disagree. You are right from a business point of view so be happy about that.

[Sega Uranus]

Those are some weird standards... Well if you are right then Yuji Naka is not a SEGA developer, he is a Namco developer because he wanted to work for them first.

Games that "Do not feel like SEGA" is a silly argument and clearly subjective. Can you name one game SEGA had before Jet Set Radio that was like it? Well, there were none, so I guess it is not a SEGA game or something!

[Team Andromeda]

Some of Segas most 'Sega', games weren't developed by Sega... Shining Force, Comix Zone, Streets of Rage, Wonderboy... The list is huge

SOR was developed by SEGA, so was the original Shining Force game and Comix Zone. Wonderboy you're spot on

Sumo Digital is not a SEGA studio, but they worked with SEGA long enough to establish a place in the hearts of SEGA fans before they were allowed to make original games with SEGA Characters and we all love him and accept them as 100% SEGA

No, They are not 100% SEGA at all.  

I will start with Bayonetta, which not only has SEGA references, but had people all over from inside the company helping design elements of the game

I agree with pretty much everything you've said, bar this . It is not a SEGA game at all and just because it has SEGA references means  very little . Play MGS on the Cube it has a ton of Nintendo References , now is MGS a Konami game or a Nintendo game ?. Snatcher on the Mega CD has a few bonus SEGA References, is that a SEGA game or a Konami game? .

The company is only as good as its work force

And games, and that's always what counts

There are certainly some Capcom immigrants skulking around in the Sega complex... touching monitor screens and leaving sticky residue on the keyboards

You don't half talk a load of silly stuff

Creative Assembly and Sports Interactive are 100% SEGA studios! Ok they are purchased but they are internal development. Platinum games is not a SEGA studio. But SEGA owns the Bayonetta and Vanquish IP's. It's that simple. Bayonetta being good can only be a good thing for SEGA..

AT LAST, Somebody gets it . Spot on Post

It's like saying every Sonic game made by DIMPS is not a SEGA game. DIMPS are the ones that get trashed for doing such lousy jobs or complimented, as they are recognized as the developers, but that doesn't mean they're not SEGA games

They do the programming work, like they do for Street Fighter IV . Sonic and SF IV are designed in-House and the duties for the programming are handed out (that happens a lot) , just like they were for Sonic R, or Code Veronica , or PSO on the PSP ECT

First Person Shooters are BIG NEWS right now, Western RPGs, Gritty Sci-Fi, GTA clones set in the wild west... Dancing and sims.

I would much rather Sega continue to be like Sega, make great arcadey games, great JRPGs... Invest in very Japanese publishers that make great games like Bayonetta and Vanquish, which, if you ask me... Feel like Sega games.

FPS have been big news for a while and no I wouldn't want SEGA Japan to make its own (it would do a horrible job and so would most of Japan) What I want SOJ to do , is invest in it's own Teams and give them the Big Budgets ,development  time and multi platform engine and strategy , that is seems to allow Platinum games, compared to its own Yakuza Team (for example)

SOJ needs to Up it's In-House game support for the next gen (we are now 6 years in)  and start to complete with great Tech and interesting looking games, like FromSoftware (dark Souls) or Q? (Eden) Sony Japan (The Last Guardian) Games that get the gamers talking (forget the casual for a moment)

It's pretty sad when most people and the wider public are looking forward too, or talking about more games developed by Platinum rather than SEGA it's self.

Mind you Sonic Team and the PSO team should get people talking for the right reasons this year, and it be nice if SEGA made more use of the Hedgehog and Canvas engines too (for the 350 and PS3) . Still no one meet the brilliance of the shader program of Canvas,and I very much looking forward to VT IV

[crackdude]

I stick by the "if it says SEGA on the box, it is a SEGA game" rule of thumb.

[Barry the Nomad]

I stick by the "if it says SEGA on the box, it is a SEGA game" rule of thumb.

You, good sir, have received +10 dharma points. (use dharma points towards SEGAbits gear in the SEGAbits shop!*)


*SEGAbits shop is currently closed

[CrazyT]

Lol yeah i'm with crackdude

[Sharky]

SOR was developed by SEGA, so was the original Shining Force game and Comix Zone. Wonderboy you're spot on

I always thought SOR was developed by 'MNM Software' who are they then? =0

As for Shining FORCE I ment they most iconic ones were developed by Sonic/Climax/Camelot.

I know Comix Zone was developed by 'Sega Technical Institute' who I consider Sega, but I was deliberately talking in cubes standards, where anything outside of Sega Japan isn't 'Sega' even if they are...

FPS have been big news for a while and no I wouldn't want SEGA Japan to make its own (it would do a horrible job and so would most of Japan) What I want SOJ to do , is invest in it's own Teams and give them the Big Budgets ,development time and multi platform engine and strategy , that is seems to allow Platinum games, compared to its own Yakuza Team (for example)

Agree 100%, but I wouldn't want Sega to sacrifice what they do now, the arcade games and the niche titles to become some kind of 'popular publisher everyone talks about.'

SOJ needs to Up it's In-House game support for the next gen (we are now 6 years in) and start to complete with great Tech and interesting looking games, like FromSoftware (dark Souls) or Q? (Eden) Sony Japan (The Last Guardian) Games that get the gamers talking (forget the casual for a moment)

I agree, Last Guardian for sure, it is very Panzerish to me.
A new Valkyria Chronicles on home console would do it!

Mind you Sonic Team and the PSO team should get people talking for the right reasons this year, and it be nice if SEGA made more use of the Hedgehog and Canvas engines too (for the 350 and PS3) . Still no one meet the brilliance of the shader program of Canvas,and I very much looking forward to VT IV

If we can get a new great Sonic game, PSO2 and a Valkyria Chronicles on home console announced this year I will be VERY happy! And while it isn't a SoJ game the next Creative Assembly action game I think will be something awesome.

[Team Andromeda]

I always thought SOR was developed by 'MNM Software' who are they then

Like Ancient a team brought in to help with the Coding (like with Sonic R, Daytona USA 2001 ECT) The design and development of the game was SEGA.

I know Comix Zone was developed by 'Sega Technical Institute' who I consider Sega, but I was deliberately talking in cubes standards, where anything outside of Sega Japan isn't 'Sega' even if they are...

Well that's just being silly on CUBE part. A In-House team is a In-House Team no matter where they happened to be based. I lot of the Pal and USA SEGA Hardware was never made in SOJ, but China and the like, does that mean they also don't count has not 'SEGA'. I guess Sonic II, III, Die-Hard Arcade, Alien Front Online weren't SEGA as they were all developed in USA

Agree 100%, but I wouldn't want Sega to sacrifice what they do now, the arcade games and the niche titles to become some kind of 'popular publisher everyone talks about.

I don't either, but SOJ needs to up its game on the 360 and PS3.

I agree, Last Guardian for sure, it is very Panzerish to me.
A new Valkyria Chronicles on home console would do it!

Yes need a game from SOJ that gets its own fans and gamers talking for the right reasons.

If we can get a new great Sonic game, PSO2 and a Valkyria Chronicles on home console announced this year I will be VERY happy!

So will I and it can and could happen . SOJ just needs to back and have faith in its own Teams a bit more. I think the Val team have more than shown they could made an incredible game for the 360 or PS3 now

I stick by the "if it says SEGA on the box, it is a SEGA game" rule of thumb

So Courier Crisis a SEGA developed game, So was Duke Nukem, Resident Evil , Quake, Full Auto, The Club, Planet 51, Bleach all SEGA developed games ?. I think there's always a Difference to games that with developed or Published In-House to games just singed up

[George]

If anything, SEGA West has to actually advertise Japanese games. VC2/PSP2 came out without much hype. Two great games that scored very well.

[cube_b3]

I know Comix Zone was developed by 'Sega Technical Institute' who I consider Sega, but I was deliberately talking in cubes standards, where anything outside of Sega Japan isn't 'Sega' even if they are...

Well that's just being silly on CUBE part. A In-House team is a In-House Team no matter where they happened to be based. I lot of the Pal and USA SEGA Hardware was never made in SOJ, but China and the like, does that mean they also don't count has not 'SEGA'. I guess Sonic II, III, Die-Hard Arcade, Alien Front Online weren't SEGA as they were all developed in USA

@ Ryan, TA and Sanus:

If you are going to talk about my silly/stupid/whatever criteria of a SEGA game atleast no what it is.

1) It is a SEGA game on a SEGA Console - Shut Up - IT IS A SEGA GAME:P
2) It is unique and innovative and made by a fresh designer. For example STI's Comix Zone (Peter Moriawec), The OoZe (Mark Cerny) and so on.
3) Those who have a past with the original SEGA teams such as Sumo Digital are accepted, they can make a new IP published by SEGA and I will accept it.
4) Collabration work such as the Phantasy Star Portable and Sonic Rush is accepted. Since Platinum Games have worked with SEGA Producers and offer so many SEGA references in Bayonetta, I accept it. But I'm still not going to play it, it just isn't for me.
5) Established IPs and Designers are not SEGA - Total War is an established brand with no intervention by any prominent SEGA personality. Sports Interactive and Creative Assembly were doing their own thing before SEGA acquired them and they are doing their own thing after SEGA acquired them.

SEGA simply wanted money from a target demographic with Managers and Strategy games and they now have it, I see no effort made to reel in actual SEGA fans towards that genre therefore I can't accept it.

DONE.

[Barry the Nomad]

Wow... so it's so complicated. Jesus.

Not just Cube, but anybody who spends so much time making up all these rules and factors involved in SEGA game or not SEGA game. From my standpoint, it's laughable.

[cube_b3]

I can't see that image.

I didn't take the time out to make these rules (except prior to making the post), it is just how I felt comfortable. I don't enjoy playing published games I tried them before coming to that realisation for example Condemned it is a great game, I spent good money on it and on sunkcost principle I literally punished myself by finishing that game.

I think I am using SEGA as a synonym for the kind of games I would want to play and I don't want to play Captain America, Golden Compass, Thor Total War, Sports Manager and all these other games that are basically segments that SEGA Corporation weren't catering to but wanted profits from them anyway.

Maybe it is laughable.

I am also a huge supported of the Blue Sky Campign:

- Change everything that's grey into blue.
- From now on, everyone wears red shoes.
- Make everything happen at midday or sunset.
- Replace gun textures with banana textures.
- Turn all cars into pink convertibles that wobble and only do 15mph.
- If you get 100 of anything, a little tune plays.
- Instead of saying "crew" say "your buddies".
- Instead of saying "hood" say "zone".
- Make the female characters something other than prostitutes.
- Make the black characters something other than drug dealers.

More Info:
http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/2005/11/b ... nched.html