Sonic Generations Discussion

[Sharky]

Dude it's one track in one level, this doesn't compromise the entire game because one track isn't exactly Led Zepplin. Lot's of Sonic fans like Escape from the City... Lots of Sonic fans that are now fully grown adults.

Let's not pretend for a moment that the Mario series hasn't had its fare share of very childish shit.

With all of its pokes at satire through out the Sonic series from the begining 'Death Egg' star wars reference all the way to the 'Do Hedgehogs dream of electric Sheep' the binary text in Sonic Colours and all the other great nods to satire that litter the SOnic series. I think Sega has totally hit the nail on the head with Pixar like adult humour.

[Barry the Nomad]

Well in that sense, Sonic has been making huge steps towards consistent quality. Unleashed was half great, Colors was a critical success, Generations is looking to take the best of Unleashed and Colors and mixes it with the best elements of the past 20 years. Reading the many E3 articles, I seen countless mentions of the previous title (Colors) being great and Generations continuing that trend.

Like it or not, the "buttrock" you mention has been a major part of SEGA games since the Dreamcast era and as cheesy as it is, a lot of people enjoy it and it is jut as defining to the Sonic games as super saccharine overplayed tunes are to Mario. Again, I really think that aspect is a non-issue for most people and you just take great offense to it.

What makes a "bad story" is up to personal opinion, but I'd say stories that take far too long to tell in too many cutscenes constitutes as bad. Also, too many plotholes are no good. Sonic Adventure 1 and Sonic '06 are the most guilty of this. Sonic Adventure 2 has, in my opinion, the best told story in a Sonic game and does so in quite breezy cutscenes. It's not perfect, but it's fun. Heroes and Colors are quite simplistic stories, and while neither are gripping, they are suitable for a Sonic game in my opinion. They're no more complicated than the Genesis games or a Mario game for that matter.

Glitchy gameplay is something that Sonic will get over in time, as long as they release a string of main series titles that are playable. I don't think a 3D Sonic game will ever bee completely glitch free, due to the speeds at which Sonic moves. It's a very tricky thing to get right. Mario seems to stable because he moves so slow. Of course his games are going to be easier to perfect.

Half baked playstyles died out with Unleashed, in my opinion. Unless somebody takes great offense to the Wisp powers, however I had no issue with those and consider them hardly half baked and thought a majority of them were a lot of fun (drilling, rocket and laser especially).

As for Mario being "solid as a rock", I find Mario's solidness to be bland. Sure his games are fun, but they're a very safe fun. I also hate Mario's speed and gameplay mechanics. Of course, that's a personal preference. I know a lot of people like the titles and consider them to be a consistent quality. I just hope the new HD Wii will push Mario beyond the Galaxy/64 gameplay and into something more exciting.

[Aki-at]

I'm sure I would not want someone telling me they cannot use the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles theme because it was rubbish too and being too corny or whatever if they ever did some classic crossover (Again)

What next, Star Trek fans coming into a Doctor Who forum and ask why the Daleks look like walking trash cans?

And after all that, it is just one track.

[Sharky]

I thought we were talking about City Escape... Why has this turned into an overall series quality discussion?

Nobody is going to say the Sonic series didn't take a nose dive, but I don't get why thats important now when discussing this game which looks fantastic.

The Mario series has continued to stay quite constant in quality, the main series anyway. I'd argue Mario Sunshine was god awful and the Kart games have taken a dive in quality and fun over the years.

But if you look at the likes of New Super Mario Bros. It's hardly a mean feet of videogame engineering... It's a simple platformer with very simple level lay outs. The Sonic games have a hell of a lot more work that needs to be poured into every level to keep up with the often really OTT demands of some fans... Then theres the physics and all of the other little things people find to complain about.

At the end of the day Mario fans have not complained about Mario changing style as he has aged, they don't complain about the physics, level designs... If the grass looks to plastic, if hes got blue eyes now... If the music doesnt use 16bit sound chip effects.

Mario fans are just happy to get more Mario games and there not so busy being self important trying to tell Nintendo how to make their own IP.

Sonic fans on the other hand are some of the most depressing, soul crushing whiners I've ever come across and I think there is half of the problem.

[Radrappy]

I agree that they're definitely improving.  There's only a few housekeeping items to be addressed.  Losing crush 40 is one of them.  Removing escape from the city is another.  We have now an opportunity to iron out all these embarrassing blemishes completely.

Like it or not, the "buttrock" you mention has been a major part of SEGA games since the Dreamcast era and as cheesy as it is, a lot of people enjoy it and it is jut as defining to the Sonic games as super saccharine overplayed tunes are to Mario.

   
It doesn't HAVE to be part of sonic.  Lose it.  Come on, sega, you can do it.  Also you're criticizing Mario music for being overly saccharine?  Grasping at straws here.  

As for Mario being "solid as a rock", I find Mario's solidness to be bland. Sure his games are fun, but they're a very safe fun. I also hate Mario's speed and gameplay mechanics. Of course, that's a personal preference. I know a lot of people like the titles and consider them to be a consistent quality. I just hope the new HD Wii will push Mario beyond the Galaxy/64 gameplay and into something more exciting.

I respect your opinion, but the sales and popularity of Mario have never been more staggering.  His main games are consistently fantastic and deserve every bit of praise lavished on them.  Sonic these days is lucky to sell 2 million copies of a game.  He's even luckier if the game is actually good.  Sonic Colors was the first legitimately good sonic game in almost ten years (ignoring portables).

Look, things are on the up and up.  No denying that.  Having played generations I have to admit I loved it and am excited.  But they're fools to include in this game, the very things that made people leave the franchise in the first place.

Sonic fans on the other hand are some of the most depressing, soul crushing whiners I've ever come across and I think there is half of the problem

 
I'm not sure I'm on board with your "just eat the shit and be happy" point of view.

[Sharky]

I'm not sure I'm on board with your "just eat the shit and be happy" point of view.

I don't like your 'everyone is singing out of tune but me' attitude.

Head on over to most non-Sonic forums and you'll see a lot of people complaining that the City Escape trailer DIDN'T include Escape from the City.

Your original point that people will be alienated by a cheesey song in a kids game has fallen apart. I personally don't like lyrical songs in Sonic games and I'd rather seem them removed but if anything Escape from the City was probably the best one of the entire lot and you simply cannot do City Escape, an iconic level with out the iconic tune that goes with it.

[Barry the Nomad]

It doesn't HAVE to be part of sonic. Lose it. Come on, sega, you can do it. Also you're criticizing Mario music for being overly saccharine? Grasping at straws here.

But it is and has been for 10 years. Way too late to pretend something you don't enjoy about the series ever happened. Anyway, those types of tunes have appeared less and less in recent games, usually only showing up as the title song which has an alternate orchestral version (such as Colors and Unleashed). Like Sharky said, the song is a part of the stage. Of course Sonic Team will include it.

My point with Mario was that I dislike the overly sweet Mario tunes, but they have not hurt the series. If anything, they define it. Same goes for the type of music you dislike in the Sonic games. You might hate City Escape (and I assume Live and Learn and Open Your Heart), but those have not hurt the series. Like the Mario tunes, they define it. Might as well mute the game or use custom soundtracks if the music really detracts from the experience.

[George]

Who gives a shit about what song is in a fucking trailer. Its a promotional video.

[Aki-at]

I hate Crush 40 and I believe Sonic should be a blend of several genres all at once and not have too much rock.

But screw making City Escape without the it's signature track, if they don't want to include that they may as well not make the level. I do not think Green Hill Zone sounds amazing, but I would be annoyed if they made the level without the music.

And embarrassing? Most of us are like in our 20s and discussing on an internet forum about a game starring a 3 foot tall blue hedgehog.

[Radrappy]

And embarrassing? Most of us are like in our 20s and discussing on an internet forum about a game starring a 3 foot tall blue hedgehog.

SHUT UP THIS IS SERIOUS

[Radrappy]

And embarrassing? Most of us are like in our 20s and discussing on an internet forum about a game starring a 3 foot tall blue hedgehog.

SHUT UP THIS IS SERIOUS

I don't like your 'everyone is singing out of tune but me' attitude.

Well, I apologize.  Passionate subject, years of putting up with terrible games, etc etc

[upsidedown fuji]

And embarrassing? Most of us are like in our 20s and discussing on an internet forum about a game starring a 3 foot tall blue hedgehog.

Just turned 30. Quit reminding me. shhh

[Sharky]

Who gives a shit about what song is in a fucking trailer. Its a promotional video.

Someone totally didn't read the thread before replying...

A hint: ITS YOU!

[Chaosmaster8753]

You go into a DW movie expecting bad jokes and decisions of bad taste.

I guess you haven't seen these movies:

But they'd be fools to not include this song in this game, one of the very things that made people love the level in the first place.

Fixed.

At the end of the day Mario fans have not complained about Mario changing style as he has aged, they don't complain about the physics, level designs... If the grass looks to plastic, if hes got blue eyes now... If the music doesnt use 16bit sound chip effects.

Mario fans are just happy to get more Mario games and there not so busy being self important trying to tell Nintendo how to make their own IP.

There probably are Mario fans who do complain, but since you don't seem to be around a community of them, you wouldn't know. I think a better way to describe the Sonic fans who complain a lot is that they're pretty loud mouthed compared to most communities.

[Radrappy]

Oh also guys, not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere else but Omochao has been confirmed to be the tutorial character for generations.  In the sonic boom footage, he was present zipping with sonic in not only City Escape but in the GHZ as well.  He wasn't in the demos they had on the show floor, but he was in the video montage of the GHZ they showed on stage.