Author Topic: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?  (Read 26341 times)

Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2010, 01:15:44 am »
I am saying you are stupid and want to ruin a franchise because you think it would make it better to make it like everything else on the market, if you do not like Shinobi that is fine, just stop bringing in your crap saying how you can make it better. Just because you like a specific style of a game does not mean everyone else will and that EVERY action game needs deep battle systems.

Seriously, this just sounds like Sonic Unleashed. With that you wanted basic platforming and nothing else, but some people wanted a battle system, you know, an optional one? That is the werehog, and you know how everyone reacts to that, you especially act to it poorly. So I do not see why you so are for it here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Waffle

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2010, 01:31:48 am »
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I am saying you are stupid

Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I am saying you are stupid
[/size]

Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I am saying you are stupid
[/size]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2010, 01:48:04 am »
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I am saying you are stupid and want to ruin a franchise because you think it would make it better to make it like everything else on the market, if you do not like Shinobi that is fine, just stop bringing in your crap saying how you can make it better. Just because you like a specific style of a game does not mean everyone else will and that EVERY action game needs deep battle systems.

Seriously, this just sounds like Sonic Unleashed. With that you wanted basic platforming and nothing else, but some people wanted a battle system, you know, an optional one? That is the werehog, and you know how everyone reacts to that, you especially act to it poorly. So I do not see why you so are for it here.

I'm dissapointed that this is getting heated again, since I was hoping this would be a more sedate argument/conversation.

Well look, Sharky hasn't actually said he wants every enemy to take tons of hits to kill, so no need to jump on that just yet.

You are right, even the bosses were defeated mostly with Kunai, so I'll concede that. Having said that though, I think that they could introduce some more in depth fighting for bosses/big enemies without changing the game up too much.

We don't need it to be God of War, or to be Bayonetta, I'm not saying to turn it into a series of fights or anything, just that for when you do need to fight, like boss fights or bigger enemies etc, it might be more fun to have some fast paced combat in rather than just depend on the same two attacks repeatedly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Sharky

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2010, 02:12:24 am »
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I am saying you are stupid and want to ruin a franchise because you think it would make it better to make it like everything else on the market, if you do not like Shinobi that is fine, just stop bringing in your crap saying how you can make it better. Just because you like a specific style of a game does not mean everyone else will and that EVERY action game needs deep battle systems.

Seriously, this just sounds like Sonic Unleashed. With that you wanted basic platforming and nothing else, but some people wanted a battle system, you know, an optional one? That is the werehog, and you know how everyone reacts to that, you especially act to it poorly. So I do not see why you so are for it here.
Calm down babby, have peice cheese.

I love Shinobi 3, great game... play it all the time. As a 2D platformer it's fine to have one canned P,P,P attack animation. I'm totally cool with that.

In a 3D realm? well lets just say if Shinobi PS2 had a deeper battle system it wouldn't have been such a grind to get though the monotious levels. It was an action platfomer that could have also used a deeper battle system. I'm not saying make it a fighter... or make the enemies have 10 health bars... Just something more then a ONE BUTTON MASH MASH MASH.

Watching the same canned animation from start to finish is going to bore the majority of gamers these days to tears, me included. Maybe it was ok in 1995.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2010, 02:34:42 am »
Shinobi on PlayStation 2 actually WAS a hack n slash though. You were stuck in each section and had to kill every enemy that had large health bars to move on.
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Offline George

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2010, 02:48:00 am »
In all fairness, Shinobi on PS2 did not sell for that same exact reason. People cited that it was no Devil May Cry or Ninja Gaiden, especially Ninja Gaiden since that game featured a simple to pick up and play and hard to master system.

Ninja Gaiden didn't start off as a game with combos, when it came back and had them; and did it great, everyone cheered. I think I agree with Sharky that if the Shinobi franchise wants to live on in 3-D, it will have to change things up.

Maybe offer ways to have one hit kills on some enemies if you hit them with enough speed. Like running and slicing will cut them in half, sorta like Shin Shinobi (Shinobi X) on Saturn. Maybe a system to hit back projectiles as well:
[youtube:2guz3rv6]a6M3bu6_KLY[/youtube:2guz3rv6]
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2010, 03:49:22 am »
Well, with Ninja Gaiden, that originally started out as a beat em up with platforming elements in the arcade, so the end process of how it came to the Xbox worked on more than a few levels.

I can understand if/when Shinobi comes back, there will be some changes made, and that is okay. I just do not want it to change into everything else out on the market now. I guess considering SEGA's poor history with resurrecting franchises has gotten us more worried than anything.

But my point is, why would you want to change something so much just to appeal to people who never even cared about the franchise to begin with? Those kind of ideas lead to NiGHTS Journey of Dreams. SEGA has a fantastic new action series with Bayonetta, and frankly I do not think they need or have room for another one. Shinobi was actually more of a action/puzzle platformer to begin with, changing the style might be alright for a spinoff, but the main series?  :x

Ryan already said he was not that big of a fan of the series. From what I can see it just sounds like he wants it to change so it can appeal to him more than anything.
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Offline Aki-at

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2010, 04:53:59 am »
But Shinobi on the Playstation 2 sold very well... It was SEGA's second best selling game globally that year if I remember right. Ninja Gaiden didn't even come out until 2004, Shinobi was out long before it. Whilst Devil May Cry is more of a stylished based combat than anything else.

Kogen pretty much said what needed to be said, Joe Musashi's primary weapon only becomes his sword when he gains the powerup, and even in the original he had an unlimited supply of surikens. The game could easily be called a run and gun platformer than an action game. Would Shinobi sell if it was changed into a primary combat based? Most likely, would SEGA do it? Quite possible. But using that excuse can allow anyone to justify change in any franchise in SEGA's catalogue, you can say SEGA did the right thing with Sonic Heroes as they appealed to everyone and it became the best selling Sonic game since Sonic the Hedgehog 2. You can say that since Shining Force is selling better now, SEGA did right to change the art direction and so on.

But I agree with Sanus, what is the point of bringing back the IP if you are just going to change the fundamental principles? Just make a new series, call it Blood or something and about ninjas. If you are not going to follow the premise the original was based on, I see little reason to bring it back, outside of being a cynical attempt to cash in.

And no, Shinobi on the Playstation 2 wasn't a good example, it really could be a new series, the main character is different, the gameplay is set towards the hack and slash crowd and you are forced to fight several baddies, especially to charge up your sword.
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Offline Pao

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2010, 05:53:07 am »
Shinobi should be all about throwing Kunai's and platforming. But the question is, how can you do that in 3D? It won't be fun to throw Kunais in 3D becaues you will probably have to use some sort of a lock-on button.

I really don't want the game to be Combo based like Bayonetta or something, that is not what made Shinobi fun.
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Offline Aki-at

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2010, 07:26:54 am »
Quote from: "Pao"
Shinobi should be all about throwing Kunai's and platforming. But the question is, how can you do that in 3D? It won't be fun to throw Kunais in 3D becaues you will probably have to use some sort of a lock-on button.

I really don't want the game to be Combo based like Bayonetta or something, that is not what made Shinobi fun.

Yes platforming slowly became the major part in Shinobi, especially in Shinobi 3, the second half of the game become extremely platforming heavy.

Shinobi was designed not to be a close combat but with kunai throwing in mind, most of the time in Shinobi you are taking down flying baddies, baddies with guns or hitting hard to reach targets not with your sword but with your projectiles. In Revenge of Shinobi getting up and close in the Military Base with most, mostly Rambo though, was a bad idea. Even other stages like Area 818 have you taking down enemies from afar (Which is also extremely platforming heavy, scaling skyscrapers and all)

Shinobi on the Playstation 2 was probably the first time where close combat was what you were meant to do and we all know how that fared with long time fans!

Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
I guess considering SEGA's poor history with resurrecting franchises has gotten us more worried than anything.

Oh I missed this quote. You can add Shinobi on the Playstation 2 as a poor revival too. I mean as a new game, it's good, but it barely resembles much about Shinobi, seriously why do kunais only stun? Why am I forced to hit several baddies at once, where is the good platforming? A dash button is silly if you can just spam it etc At least the music was nice...
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2010, 05:13:10 pm »
Aki-at and Sanus were telling me a while back that Shinobi games on PS2 were really awesome, and when I said I heard they weren't very good you both got very cross with me.  :|

Well either way, it seems the sticking point is, how do you make throwing kunais/shuriken fun in 3D? I guess you could go with making an extremely generous auto aim feature, where you if you aiming in the right quadrant at least, they will hit the enemy?

Or...

How about a FPS? First Person Shuriken game? Kinda like Mirrors Edge or something?
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2010, 05:22:21 pm »
I pictured it more like a third person shooter. I think a new Shinobi game designed specifically for Wii with pointing and shooting controls could turn out good if done by a good team, I guess.

And the PlayStation 2 Shinobi games are good, they just do not feel much like Shinobi... I am not upset about this though, because of Hibana.



Oh yeah, and Joe is unlockable in them.
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Offline Waffle

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2010, 05:34:16 pm »
Why exactly would it need to be 3D?

And since when were projectiles and platforming even hard to do in third person? It could just use lock-on.
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2010, 05:36:39 pm »
Quote from: "Waffle"
Why exactly would it need to be 3D?

And since when were projectiles and platforming even hard to do in third person? It could just use lock-on.

Lock-on would make the game too boring/easy.
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Offline Waffle

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Re: What if: a Shinobi sequel was made on the Bayonetta Engine?
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2010, 05:51:18 pm »
Quote from: "Sega Uranus"
Quote from: "Waffle"
Why exactly would it need to be 3D?

And since when were projectiles and platforming even hard to do in third person? It could just use lock-on.

Lock-on would make the game too boring/easy.
Like Panzer Dragoon Orta.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »