Yakuza: OF THE END

[Centrale]

Yeah, I'd love it.  Call it "Citation Needed."  

[ROJM]

Trouble is SEGA Japan just tended to look at much  the Japanese Market,some of its games were very niche, and SEGA really hasn't been Multi Platform (games have still been exclusive to 1 platform) also SEGA still has poor image and dire PR.  Every BIG Major games (Yakuza 3, Val) and every Sonic Game should have been multi Platform, from the very start.

Sega's been lazy, the first "western focus" tactic that bred disasters like BEAST RIDER was in reality the excecs saying let the western developers make games for that market and we'll concentrate on our own market. That obviously didn't work although it gave Sega europe the oppurtunity to break out of SOA's shadow with producing(and buying) the better games and studios.

Instead of balancing it out like they did in the genesis/Master system era they've gone the complete opposite way.

In total Sega should make local games or regional games(titles specific to japan,america and europe and the main Sega titles(which everyone can play) should complement it. Not spending all resources for one market.

SEGA shots its self in the foot sometimes....SEGA makes the best Sonic game in years, and its only out on the Wii , where's  the 360 and PS3 versions; even if they sold poor, I bet they would have totalled over the 5,000,0000 or Million Mark.

Sonic yes should be multiplatform but i think this is down to mixed messages from 360/ps3 owners who keep bitching about Sonic.

I know our difference in opinion on this matter and i won't go into sales on this but Sega's strengh has always been as a single platform developer rather than a MP one.

I know, but just backing one Platform this Generation isn't going to work . Every Major 3rd Party is now more or less completely multi-platform and SEGA needs to be just the same, if its is going to take on and beat the likes of EA, Ubisoft or 2k .  I don't like it any more more than the next person, but that is just the way then Generation has gone, and I dare say it will be the same next Gen

That's not a fair comparison. Most third parties on the 360/Ps3 started going multi platform since the Ps2 era while a few others have been doing it longer than that.

And the reality is exclusives have worked for Sega whether you like it or not. At the moment thanks to PS3 move and 360 kinectic were getting at least three exclusives coming out, one being the first SOJ 360 exclusive in the form of RISE OF NIGHTMARES and it seems HOTD4 may at least be seeing the light of day on the PS3 move too.Who knows the point is exclusives doesn't hurt if used correctly. YAKUZA wouldn't have sold if it was an MP game, Sega wasn't in any condition to sell that game in the way it had to be sold.

SEGA has just got to start to let people be able to play all its games, be you a 360, PS3 or Wii Owner.  Just look at Sharky; he's  a SEGA nut and one of its best and most loyal fans... but due to Sharky only owning a 360, he's missed/missing  out on Yakuza III, or Val on the PS3 .  SEGA needs to stop hurting and dividing its own fans (you know full well there's a small section of fans that will never buy SONY) Start allowing people to play your BIG games. No matter the system you own....Its better for us, its great PR and its better for SEGA inthe end imo

And sadly the reality is the big wigs won't do it. There's no point in having three different systems if you can get the same game. that's part of the reason why the crash of 82 happened. They need exclusives as much as they can. Sega needs exclusives in order to share the burden in marketing a big title, which is what happened when YAKUZA and VAL came out. That's essentially the main reason why SHENMUE won't get released without an exclusive deal behind it. Sega isn't going to take the risk on publishing a title like that, market it and see it flop big time on two platforms. We can all harp on and complain but let's not forget this is a Buisness and that's how the buisness goes.

I'm still one of them. Technically my PS3(if is second hand so it didn't go to Sony's hands.) As for Sharky, anyone want a whip round to raise cash for Sharky to buy a PS3? Sharky AID.

You're forgetting one important thing. Were a dying breed. The sega fans of yesteryear won't be the same type of segafan in years to come.

I know but the good will and the word of mouth a Skies II(using the Canvas engine) could generate.. would be  just amazing.

One Screen shot of the Skies Characters& World in Canvas, would have many people on various forums cheering and praising SEGA for all the right reasons, it would kill the comments; that the Old SEGA is dead too, get everyone here hyping and talking the game up, and give all us SEGA fans a reason to shout from the roof tops.

The engine and Team is proven too, the time is right is do such a move, and Skies is not a game that be pandering to the West at all. Also having a team to do various Model 3 , 2 packs again is very easy, and not pandering, but will generate serious good will towards SEGA

I'd rather see Sega go bust then just to see them reduce to sharing engines like that be it from the same team. And again SOA2 isn't going to solve the problem whatever form it took. People are going to find something wrong with it regardless on how good it ran just to bash sega and ultimatly you need the userbase to buy the game in the first place. Its not there in great numbers, JRPGs apparently are going into a slump so it wouldn't necessarly sell anyway.

Arcade releases or ports are not pandering. That's one element that's missing a lot. They need to reconnect those titles and remind/reveal that they do make arcade titles to this generation. And with that you hopefully create a new sega fan.

rebrand the overall product of Sega ultimatly. I recall reading in EDGE that Oguchi(i think) wanted the brand to be like coco cola. If that means keep reminding people you exist, i'm all for it. sell the brand like it use to not just follow the crowd and show just the game, and do it like micky Ds when a game(a number) of games go down in price spread the word. Reconnect with fans, use the asserts of what sega is good for ie become essentially the apple of the console world or build up to that because let's face it innovation is sega's middle name.

SOJ needs an eqvilent of someone like Tom K to steer the ship and know the market and take the risks. Sega sammy needs a leader overall like Isao Okawa to give the balance and support. Sega west needs more autonomy ie let SE link the deals to the games and studios while SOA bring in the personell or future talent and create games that way. Stuff they were historically good at for years.

And at the end release a new system. Games won't be going that long in the future because essentially all the hardware companies are using ideas either made succesful or pioneered by sega. If sega never becomes a console maker again then how long does anyone think that these guys could carry on for? another genration being another 10 years? Unless they come up with something original of their own or someone else does then all were going to see is the eventual decline of the games market in the form we know it now and what's seems to be happening in japan where social crappy gaming/mobile gaming takes over.

[Team Andromeda]

I really don't want for this to turn back the old days of endless quoting, or any name calling to I'll try and keep it brief

Sega's been lazy, the first "western focus" tactic that bred disasters like BEAST RIDER was in reality the excecs saying let the western developers make games for that market and we'll concentrate on our own market. That obviously didn't work although it gave Sega europe the oppurtunity to break out of SOA's shadow with producing(and buying) the better games and studios.

My self,  I think it was a lot more to do with it was poor game choice and not a great Studio that made the title (rather than being lazy) SEGA also made a mistake in letting SEGA Europe handle SEGA Rally: That should have been a Arcade title 1st and then ported to Home systems (like Rally II) and made only by SEGA Japan.

I also think Shadow the Hedgehog,  which came out long before was an pretty shit attempt to cash in on Sonic, and trying to appeal to the USA and older market

but i think this is down to mixed messages from 360/ps3 owners who keep bitching about Sonic.

There's plenty of mixed messages on the Wii : HOTD sells great, Mad world sells like shit. Big projects and big IP needs to be Multi Platform This generation (that is my own view)  

Most third parties on the 360/Ps3 started going multi platform since the Ps2 era while a few others have been doing it longer than that

It really is now,  more than fair...  Konami, Namco, Capcom have all gone Multi and also backed the 360, even though in the PS2 days they were fairly SONY ( also remember SEGA been multi since 2001) ) So have Square and now even the likes of  nsomniac games are going Multi.
This generation is different, and in the HD era, you really need to be Multi imo  

And the reality is exclusives have worked for Sega whether you like it or not. At the moment thanks to PS3 move and 360 kinectic were getting at least three exclusives coming out, one being the first SOJ 360 exclusive in the form of RISE OF NIGHTMARES and it seems HOTD4

In terms of Sonic Vs Mario I would agree, in terms of Yakuza or Val I'm not so sure at all;  The Consumer Teams are yet to make a Profit and so far all the next gen Yakuza  haven't been able to out sell Yakuza II or really grown and move the series forward (the costs invouled also mean that SEGA needs to sell 400,000 copies just to break even) Kenzan would have made no sense, but I would have liked to see Yak III and Val multi Platform from the start.
To try and help get more sales, more PR and help grow the series of games  

And sadly the reality is the big wigs won't do it. There's no point in having three different systems if you can get the same game. that's part of the reason why the crash of 82

Only true Gamer heads will own all 3 systems, for many it will be either the PS3 or 360  (that is why the likes of EA are multi-Platform ) and that's fine. SEGA needs to be allow consumers: be they fans of either the 360 or PS3 be able to play SEGA games, not for all games, but most of the major games and Big Name IP .

That's essentially the main reason why SHENMUE won't get released without an exclusive deal behind it. Sega isn't going to take the risk on publishing a title like that, market it and see it flop big time on two platforms.

I would sort of  agree, but Shenmue is a very special case, given the costs and size of the project let to be completed. Though there is part of me,  that thinks a Multi Platform Shenmue  3 could see a million easy.
And I do wonder how well Shenmue would have sold,  if the series launched as X-Box, PS2 Multi-Platform game from the very start

I'd rather see Sega go bust then just to see them reduce to sharing engines like that be it from the same team

It isn't sharing a Engine if Valkyria Team were to make a SOA II They are the team that Made both Val and Skies,  and the Canvas engine is theirs .  

And again SOA2 isn't going to solve the problem whatever form it took.

I'll not try and make out it would. I t would be a good step to please the SEGA fans, and a chance for SEGA to make a sequel to a classic IP and not mess it up. The Canvas and Valkyria Team are more than proven this Gen, and it wouldn't be selling out to the west, it would be nice to see a Next Gen sequel to Burning  Rangers.

I recall reading in EDGE that Oguchi(i think) wanted the brand to be like coco cola.

That was do with the Colour and SEGA Logo ... Oguchi-san wanted to change the SEGA logo colour and font (to Red & White rather than Blue, hence the Coca-Cola) . Anyway that died a death (good job as SEGA logo is the best there is) along with the ' Back To Origin' Plan, more so after the SAMMY take over.

[ROJM]

Sega's been lazy, the first "western focus" tactic that bred disasters like BEAST RIDER was in reality the excecs saying let the western developers make games for that market and we'll concentrate on our own market. That obviously didn't work although it gave Sega europe the oppurtunity to break out of SOA's shadow with producing(and buying) the better games and studios.

My self,  I think it was a lot more to do with it was poor game choice and not a great Studio that made the title (rather than being lazy) SEGA also made a mistake in letting SEGA Europe handle SEGA Rally: That should have been a Arcade title 1st and then ported to Home systems (like Rally II) and made only by SEGA Japan.

That's the point, TA, lazy in the sense that many of the games that were selected should have been handled by Sega Japan and not their western underlings. Most of these games were more popular on these shores and not in Japan, so it was obvious that the decision to let this happen was flawed from the start. All it did was to confirm that SOJ was more focused on their home market and tried an easier option of not dealing with the western market themselves. SOA's main strengh really was creating their own IP which hardly happened. Add to the poor choices in teams development that SJ did during his tenure at Sega and what started as a poor decision nearly became a disaster.

There's plenty of mixed messages on the Wii : HOTD sells great, Mad world sells like shit. Big projects and big IP needs to be Multi Platform This generation (that is my own view)  

GHOST SQUAD sold good,CONDUIT sold ok as well HOTD arcade sold great, HOTD OK sold strongly in UK but not anywhere else. Sorry but that doesn't make it mixed messages there's still a consistancy.MW was the biggest flop for sega on Wii.

It really is now,  more than fair...  Konami, Namco, Capcom have all gone Multi and also backed the 360, even though in the PS2 days they were fairly SONY ( also remember SEGA been multi since 2001) ) So have Square and now even the likes of  nsomniac games are going Multi.
This generation is different, and in the HD era, you really need to be Multi imo  

Not really. The only titles that were multi were really their Sonic collection games, most of the PS2, gC, xbox sega games were exclusives.

I don't see what's wrong in having two or three big project games being multi and a few exclusives as well. YAKUZA just isn't a good example considering on who its aimed at, no viable system to put it on apart from PS2 at the time it launched not a big enough title to justify it being a MP game (IE it won't sell great on the xbox either if at all) and its expense that would have stopped it being a MP from the start.

In terms of Sonic Vs Mario I would agree, in terms of Yakuza or Val I'm not so sure at all;  The Consumer Teams are yet to make a Profit and so far all the next gen Yakuza  haven't been able to out sell Yakuza II or really grown and move the series forward (the costs invouled also mean that SEGA needs to sell 400,000 copies just to break even) Kenzan would have made no sense, but I would have liked to see Yak III and Val multi Platform from the start.
To try and help get more sales, more PR and help grow the series of games  

Which would drive up r and d and marketing costs even more. And sorry it was never going to take one game to pay off for an engine, the budget for the actual game yes but the costs of the engine that both Val and Yakuza operate with, is a long term investment which has been succesful. They dealt seperatly surely you must know that, if a game flops and it had an expensive engine then ultimatly they lost money on the engine too, if it didn't then they can still make profit and the engine can be used for howmany so years. If a game had to make money back on engine costs as well no game would ever make its money back. As for VAl that's more to do with a market shift with RPGs doing well on portable gaming and mobile(supposedly)

Only true Gamer heads will own all 3 systems, for many it will be either the PS3 or 360  (that is why the likes of EA are multi-Platform ) and that's fine. SEGA needs to be allow consumers: be they fans of either the 360 or PS3 be able to play SEGA games, not for all games, but most of the major games and Big Name IP .

Well i don't think everybody had all the systems back in the early eighties either but that didn't stop the crash did it? Yes of course it makes sense but it doesn't to the people who control the market. They do after all have to have an edge on the competition.

I would sort of  agree, but Shenmue is a very special case, given the costs and size of the project let to be completed. Though there is part of me,  that thinks a Multi Platform Shenmue  3 could see a million easy.
And I do wonder how well Shenmue would have sold,  if the series launched as X-Box, PS2 Multi-Platform game from the very start

You're having a laugh, never thought the PS2 would handle it. MP would just add to the costs and the risks would be more higher.  But hey, all the other options didn't exactly work either.

It isn't sharing a Engine if Valkyria Team were to make a SOA II They are the team that Made both Val and Skies,  and the Canvas engine is theirs .  

But that's VAL's selling point. It would make that game redundant if another title started to use it.

And again SOA2 isn't going to solve the problem whatever form it took.

I'll not try and make out it would. I t would be a good step to please the SEGA fans, and a chance for SEGA to make a sequel to a classic IP and not mess it up. The Canvas and Valkyria Team are more than proven this Gen, and it wouldn't be selling out to the west, it would be nice to see a Next Gen sequel to Burning  Rangers.

BR could sell but SOA2? The RPG market is already slumped and the sega base to support a title like this isn't there anymore. That's why i'm saying Sega should try to rebrand itself to get more converts in. That's what they did back in the nineties which brought in the americans and that's what they did with the saturn era that brought the japanese. Nowadays they're not doing that, they haven't made themselves look attractive to anyone outside their fanbase. And actually they haven't acted aggressive enough as a third party IMHO.
Even in saying that its not whether SOA2 could or should comeback the question is how smart is the current Sega regime to use an asset they own effectivly.
 

That was do with the Colour and SEGA Logo ... Oguchi-san wanted to change the SEGA logo colour and font (to Red & White rather than Blue, hence the Coca-Cola) . Anyway that died a death (good job as SEGA logo is the best there is) along with the ' Back To Origin' Plan, more so after the SAMMY take over.

Yeah that's right. Still can't find the copy but its among those lines.

[Team Andromeda]

The only titles that were multi were really their Sonic collection games, most of the PS2, gC, xbox sega games were exclusives.

You could say that about most of Namco, Konami, Capcom games, most of which were exclusiveness, or led on only 1 Platform.

That's the point, TA, lazy in the sense that many of the games that were selected should have been handled by Sega Japan and not their western underlings. Most of these games were more popular on these shores and not in Japan, so it was obvious that the decision to let this happen was flawed from the start. All it did was to confirm that SOJ was more focused on their home market and tried an easier option of not dealing with the western market

I can't work out why Golden Axe was ever chosen, a game like Streets Of Rage would have been a much better to update .  SEGA Rally thought to be fair was a pretty badly handle by both SEGA Europe and Japan with reguards to SR on the PS2 and SEGA Rally Revo

Sorry but that doesn't make it mixed messages there's still a consistancy.MW was the biggest flop for sega on Wii.

Don't think it was the biggest flop, but after sales of HOTD they seemed to be a market for Adult games and given the team, the press coverage and Rave reviews I think many were expecting much better sales for Mad World. Its not just a SEGA issues Ubisoft have had issues with the likes of Red Steel II

Which would drive up r and d and marketing costs even more

I think almost every Next Gen game is developed on a PC before put on a Console and now Middleware is good I don't think it was ever such a issue it once was . Did it really matter that Vanquished was developed on the PS3 and ported to the 360 ?, and  Val started life out as a 360 game before being moved to the P3

Well i don't think everybody had all the systems back in the early eighties either but that didn't stop the crash did it

Tbh the gaming crash of the 1980's was more to do with Atari selling poor games, and outdated consoles at full retail price

You're having a laugh, never thought the PS2 would handle it.

The Saturn could handle Shenmue, and if the game started life out as PS2 or X-Box title from the start, then any issues over Textures and Memory wouldn't be there

But that's VAL's selling point. It would make that game redundant if another title started to use it.

The Canvas engine has never been fully created on the PSP and doesn't look anywhere near as good. NiGHTS ran on the same engine as Burning Rangers, Assassins Creed engine is used in Prince of Persia; Games can use the same engines and have totally different ART directions, Yakuza engine is clearly being used in Binary Domain

Did it really matter than SEGA made a few Cell Shaded games like JSRF, Sonic Shuffle, Wild Riders, Ollie King ?

BR could sell but SOA2? The RPG market is already slumped and the sega base to support a title like this isn't there anymore.

Very good points and I'll not try and say any of them are wrong. Only that SEGA needs to start to please and support its base/Fans a bit more, and the odd RPG can sell in good numbers.

Namco have had very decent sales with its RPG's series on the PS3 and 360, FF 13 was a monster sell on both ; I'm sure a well produced and well made Multi Platform SOA II could sell more than 500,000 at full price . Sure it not make millions, but it could still sell and please so many , and put a end to the talk that is old SEGA is dead.

[ROJM]

You could say that about most of Namco, Konami, Capcom games, most of which were exclusiveness, or led on only 1 Platform.

Then what's your point then? You're bagging on sega on lack of MPs but everyone else DID the exact same thing and in some cases still doing the same thing which is what i said in the first place.  the difference is that the others had time to build up their succesful IP Sega is in the process of doing that. Best way to do that is make a big game exclusive and once its popular enough on one platform release it for all systems. YAKUZA like i said isn't even popular on these shores. YAKUZ OF THE DEAD may help it get over in the west.  

That's the point, TA, lazy in the sense that many of the games that were selected should have been handled by Sega Japan and not their western underlings. Most of these games were more popular on these shores and not in Japan, so it was obvious that the decision to let this happen was flawed from the start. All it did was to confirm that SOJ was more focused on their home market and tried an easier option of not dealing with the western market

I can't work out why Golden Axe was ever chosen, a game like Streets Of Rage would have been a much better to update .  SEGA Rally thought to be fair was a pretty badly handle by both SEGA Europe and Japan with reguards to SR on the PS2 and SEGA Rally Revo

Be thankful they didn't get to SOR.

Don't think it was the biggest flop, but after sales of HOTD they seemed to be a market for Adult games and given the team, the press coverage and Rave reviews I think many were expecting much better sales for Mad World. Its not just a SEGA issues Ubisoft have had issues with the likes of Red Steel II

Overall with the campaign and money put for it it kinda was.
Naw i'd figure after the sales of GS and HOTD that there was a market for arcade ports again. I dunno how people arrived to the conclusion that adult gaming would take off big on Wii because of the success of HOTD which was quite cheap as well.  

I think almost every Next Gen game is developed on a PC before put on a Console and now Middleware is good I don't think it was ever such a issue it once was . Did it really matter that Vanquished was developed on the PS3 and ported to the 360 ?, and  Val started life out as a 360 game before being moved to the P3

Still essentially a single platform at the end of the day and that was early in the dev cycle.
What you're talking about is after the game is finished coding for both platforms, shipping, printing, etc etc etc.
I think VANQUISH would have sold better if it was an exclusive to the PS3, myself.

Tbh the gaming crash of the 1980's was more to do with Atari selling poor games, and outdated consoles at full retail price

I said one of the reasons. Yes, too many systems,no real difference between the graphics poor games and all alvailable on all the systems.

The Saturn could handle Shenmue, and if the game started life out as PS2 or X-Box title from the start, then any issues over Textures and Memory wouldn't be there

But it didn't did it and no the PS2 wouldn't been able to handle it, weve sen some games where the PS2 fairs poorly compared to the same game on DC and that isn't even half the power as SHENMUE as it evolved would require.

But that's VAL's selling point. It would make that game redundant if another title started to use it.

The Canvas engine has never been fully created on the PSP and doesn't look anywhere near as good. NiGHTS ran on the same engine as Burning Rangers, Assassins Creed engine is used in Prince of Persia; Games can use the same engines and have totally different ART directions, Yakuza engine is clearly being used in Binary Domain

To a degree that's true but its still present.
stick to sega games please.
A game you slagged off recently. And those titles differ a lot compared to two games in the same genre. Playwisethey may differ i agree but look wise it would be too similar especially if they use anime/manga style. Look wasn't the point of SOA was to return to JRPG roots and not go in the direction of what they are now? Using the CANVAS tool would defeat the purpose of the whole idea of the game.

Did it really matter than SEGA made a few Cell Shaded games like JSRF, Sonic Shuffle, Wild Riders, Ollie King ?

And look what happened, over exposure that the public pretty much got fed up with it. Sega didn't help matters by  doing that granted even for arcade but what made JSF unique had long since gone by 2002. Pity because if people played the actual game it would have made all the difference but its graphics that people judge a game on and while JSF was stunning with the first game, it was passe by 2002. No fault of its own though.

Very good points and I'll not try and say any of them are wrong. Only that SEGA needs to start to please and support its base/Fans a bit more, and the odd RPG can sell in good numbers.

Namco have had very decent sales with its RPG's series on the PS3 and 360, FF 13 was a monster sell on both ; I'm sure a well produced and well made Multi Platform SOA II could sell more than 500,000 at full price . Sure it not make millions, but it could still sell and please so many , and put a end to the talk that is old SEGA is dead.

At what cost? You're dreaming if you think a high end SOA2 would reach that number in today's market and not be considered a loss. Val only broke even on the PS3, EoE didn't do as well as hoped either. SOA would probably fair better as a Psp or 3Ds game. If we go with what you said i'd expect it would reach the 200 000 mark (more likely 100 000 and under)

[Team Andromeda]

Then what's your point then? You're bagging on sega on lack of MP

The Point is quite simply, most did act the same, but now then don't even the ones that were once loyal to either SONY or MS, are now muli platform with their IP

Be thankful they didn't get to SOR

Spot on.

What you're talking about is after the game is finished coding for both platforms

What I'm saying is most games can run on each other Platform and there is little to chose between the formats.

I think VANQUISH would have sold better if it was an exclusive to the PS3,

I don't think it would have made the slightest bit of difference. It was the led Platform after all (so PS3 lost nothing in being Multi)

But it didn't did it and no the PS2 wouldn't been able to handle it, weve sen some games where the PS2 fairs poorly compared to the same game on DC

Only because it was dropped due to poor sales of the Hardware; Shenmue has a game was developed  right up to Shemnmue II on the Saturn . If the game led on the PS2 (there was no DC) then SEGA AM#2 would have adressed and worked around the PS2 textures issues, like they AV did for Yakuza 1 and II

A game you slagged off recently

This game is ?

Using the CANVAS tool would defeat the purpose of the whole idea of the game.

Don't see how at all. It would give SOA a picture story book look and feel : Like Eternal Sonata only much, much better. Namco have cartoon graphics on their games like Tales of Vesperia , Sonata and Naruto and they all have their own fans and apple, even those they all use the cartoon look

And look what happened, over exposure that the public pretty much got fed up with it

That is a slightly different point . My point is that games that share the same sort of shader effects or volume lighting can each still have their own unique appeal and identity

if you think a high end SOA2 would reach that number in today's market and not be considered a loss.

Well Yakuza can only sell in that number and I never once see anyone says its makes a loss .  Bare a few things in mind too, unlike Val SOA is a well known and respected IP, the PS3 market as matured thanks to the PS3 Slime and being on sale for over 4 years, never mind the 360.  I think a well made Muti Platform SOA II could hit at least 500,000 copies, maybe as high as 800,000 at full price

And when I say Multi Platform I mean it . 360, PS3, PSP2 and 3DS.

[ROJM]

The Point is quite simply, most did act the same, but now then don't even the ones that were once loyal to either SONY or MS, are now muli platform with their IP

IP that everyone knows after years of being exclusive and with that building a loyal fanbase. Different scenario, Sega doesn't have many IP to draw from that people beyond sega fandom would want, so they have to build it up. So far their most successful IP YAKUZA and SUPER MONKEY BALL has been able to build on an audience because most of the titles has been available on one platform or one system manufacturer.

What I'm saying is most games can run on each other Platform and there is little to chose between the formats.

Apart from costs. Which is the whole point of why it wouldn't happen.

I think VANQUISH would have sold better if it was an exclusive to the PS3,

I don't think it would have made the slightest bit of difference. It was the led Platform after all (so PS3 lost nothing in being Multi)

 but it did to sega and platinum.
As a third party Sega does need all the new IP it can get to become sucessful franchises. VANQUISH was a missed oppurtunity in my book.

But it didn't did it and no the PS2 wouldn't been able to handle it, weve sen some games where the PS2 fairs poorly compared to the same game on DC

Only because it was dropped due to poor sales of the Hardware; Shenmue has a game was developed  right up to Shemnmue II on the Saturn . If the game led on the PS2 (there was no DC) then SEGA AM#2 would have adressed and worked around the PS2 textures issues, like they AV did for Yakuza 1 and II

Then why didn't Sega simply just port it over with SHENMUE 2 if they were sure the PS2 could handle it?

A game you slagged off recently

This game is ?

BINARY DOMAIN, as i seem to recall you weren't impressed but i could be wrong.

Using the CANVAS tool would defeat the purpose of the whole idea of the game.

Don't see how at all. It would give SOA a picture story book look and feel : Like Eternal Sonata only much, much better. Namco have cartoon graphics on their games like Tales of Vesperia , Sonata and Naruto and they all have their own fans and apple, even those they all use the cartoon look

Again not sega games, and none well crafted as the original SOA. I don't want SOA to adopt another game's style, sorry whatever way you look at it doing that would not make it SOA. And really what  will happen when SAKURA TAISEN shows up again. It won't show the same style of canvas but has always employed an anime look which VAL employs  too. If SOA2 did the same as touted by you to be a big project as are the other two, honestly a casual would be pretty much pressed to tell the difference.

And look what happened, over exposure that the public pretty much got fed up with it

That is a slightly different point . My point is that games that share the same sort of shader effects or volume lighting can each still have their own unique appeal and identity

Which all flopped because of over exposure of manga dimension and the cel shade look that other companies copied. which in the end is the point. A game that has its own identity and own look will sell a bit better than look like another title with similar graphics. Isn't that what you want at the end of the day for SOA2 to do well?

if you think a high end SOA2 would reach that number in today's market and not be considered a loss.

Well Yakuza can only sell in that number and I never once see anyone says its makes a loss .  Bare a few things in mind too, unlike Val SOA is a well known and respected IP, the PS3 market as matured thanks to the PS3 Slime and being on sale for over 4 years, never mind the 360.  I think a well made Muti Platform SOA II could hit at least 500,000 copies, maybe as high as 800,000 at full price

And when I say Multi Platform I mean it . 360, PS3, PSP2 and 3DS

YAKUZA isn't an RPG.Yakuza is only on one platform. And the first game in the series had a million in unit sales while the rest in the series averages around 500 000 each release. SOA2 would have to have good budget behind it to acheive what you want to see and in a slumped market that only see the big names defy the odds, the game would flop big time. Actually I purpose to go on or start another topic on this subject of third party sega and say what you think/i think they should do. as this has gone off topic a bit from what is meant to be about YAKUZA, don't  worry it will be and i'll be civil.

[MadeManG74]

YAKUZA isn't an RPG.

It's an action RPG I think. You walk around town getting into random battles earning XP to level up, while picking up side-quests from characters along with the main storyline. If the combat was turn based it would be a JRPG through and through.

[Team Andromeda]

IP that everyone knows after years of being exclusive and with that building a loyal fanbase. Different scenario,

So those corps have a bigger following and fanbase to that of SEGA ?. What about the likes of 2K games ?

Apart from costs. Which is the whole point of why it wouldn't happe

You keep on saying this, how much more expensive is developing a game only for 1 platform, compared to developed the title for 2 platforms at the same time and having developed led on the PC ?

Then why didn't Sega simply just port it over with SHENMUE 2 if they were sure the PS2 could handle it?

Because MS came in with a Massive Pile of Cash.
And I'm on about if Shenmue stared life out on the PS2 (no port) and wonder how much better it might have sold.

but it did to sega and platinum

makes no sense , when every PS3 title from Platinum has also been in the 360 including their brand new game. So it doesn't at all look like SEGA is bother about the game also being on the 360

BINARY DOMAIN, as i seem to recall you weren't impressed but i could be wrong

Is it just me, many on this board are not really impressed.

I don't want SOA to adopt another game's style

But it wouldn't, it would still be Skies as long as the Art is maintained and the team are more than able to do that.Space Harrier has its own look, to that of Hang-On, even though they're on the same hardware, by the same team on the same engine.

And really what will happen when SAKURA TAISEN shows up again

Fans will no doubt be happy as long as its well made. Sakura Taisen 3/4 and SOA were both on the DC made by the same team (none of us know if the tech wasn't shared) and they both had their own appeal and each had their own set on fans. In just the same way Manx TT and Sega Rally had their own fans, different appeal and own speical Art. Again Games made  by the same team, running on much the same engine and much the same Board

YAKUZA isn't an RPG.

It is a action RPG, lets face it.

Which all flopped because of over exposure of manga dimension and the cel shade look that other companies copied.

How many Japanese RPG's all tended to look much the same, more so in the 2D days. some sell, other don't. It happens

And the first game in the series had a million in unit sales while the rest in the series averages around 500 000 each release

The 2nd game in the series has sold the best ( I think) , and none of the next Gen series as match those figures . The series hasn't grown or moved forward in terms of sales in those requards
Just try it once as a Multi Platform to see if that can get any more interest in the series; I really can not work out why you're so against people like Sharky being able to play the Yakuza series on his console .

 It's not a dig , I dislike SONY , but I have no issues buying their hardware or SEGA supporting them anymore, I like to see SEGA go more Multi on the Wii and 3DS even though I totally dislike NCL

I want SEGA to get the best possible sales, the best and widest PR and Press coverage and for all SEGA fans to be able to play SEGA games, not matter the console they own

[CrazyT]

Yakuza IS an RPG in every defenition of the word.

[Sega Uranus]

Yeah, Yakuza is an RPG. Heavy on characters and story, has leveling up and all the other stuff you see in basically every other RPG.

It has no elements that are not RPG-like, outside of MAYBE minigames.

[ROJM]

Yakuza is an arcade adventure, Sega has never described it as being an RPG.

[MadeManG74]

Yakuza is an arcade adventure, Sega has never described it as being an RPG.

They haven't described it as an RPG, but when you break it down it's pretty much a JRPG through and through (right down to the random battle encounters), the only difference is that the action isn't turn based.

Why do you feel it's not an RPG? I can understand the combat not being very RPG-like, but that's why I see it as an Action RPG.

[ROJM]

I keep saying this but its a hybrid of arcade style play and RPG or arcade adventure for short. A lot of games like this were described as being such back in the eighties including some of the Wonder Boy games. Now apparently the term is "action adventure". but i'm use to it being called arcade adventure since that was the term used when i was growing up.

Besides, the game isn't an out and out RPG like SAKURA TAISEN SHINING FORCE and DRAGON FORCE and even SHENMUE.

Break it down its essentially SPIKEOUT with JRPG trappings with the mini games thrown in. The games do lean more of the RPG side rather than the action side but that usually happens in hybrids, sometimes the action is emphasised than the RPG elements.