Author Topic: Have you embraced mobile gaming?  (Read 24133 times)

Offline Aki-at

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2015, 10:58:50 am »
As I said, the main issue is that touch screen requires you to cover the display to control the game, there's no getting around it, unless you minimise the display. On mobile, that means making the small screen even smaller. And you still run into the smaller issues of not having any physical feedback on the controls for accuracy.

It can work for some games, like turn based RPGs or strategy etc, but it's still just 'good enough' compared to superior inputs.

Well yes if you have an iPhone but I have a Note 3. My finger probably only covers 5% of the screen at most. Although I can agree on the physical feedback, I've found Sonic the Hedgehog 2 to be excellent on mobile and have had no issues with the controls after getting used to the lack of buttons.

I know you've said this before, but I'd really like to know why (unless you're trying to wrangle my jangles).

Also, I'm not holding out any hope for Bayonetta 3 anyway, or anything even remotely similar from Sega ever again, so you'll get your wish. We'll see "Bayonetta: Touch Me Freemium App" for Mobile Phones before we see Bayonetta 3 anyway.

I just find Chain Chronicle enjoyable in short bursts, the strategic elements are unfortunately undermined if you level up to greatly, but the cast of characters, art and story was enjoyable enough to me to keep playing. There's going to be balancing issues addressed in version 2 with a lot more content that I'm looking forward too. The social aspect is pretty fun too, who'd have thought it'd be what I post most on NeoGAF about : P

Also I don't know why you wouldn't hold any hopes of an action game from SEGA ever again. I think you might be a bit too harsh on their production capability, wither the project gets localised or if it's something that interests you is something else entirely.

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2015, 12:52:17 pm »
I agree with you on touch controlls if we are talking about merely having virtual buttons or some shit. It doesn't work, and companies (Sega included with their early iOS ports) were wrong to go down that road.
But as I said, games can be VERY enjoyable if they are designed with touch in mind. Again, my fav example, Crazy Taxi CR has excellent gameplay with simple touch controlls and mechanics that fully incorporate them.

As with everything platform there are good and bad games. Good mobile games fully incorporate touch mechanics and balance gameplay time/microtransactions. Bad ones don't. Let's not throw every mobile game in the same bag.
Take Sonic Runners for example. You can play endlessly if you're good enough. This is a good mechanic.
Your Total War example, very bad mechanics. There is good and bad, we should not ignore the good because there is bad.

"But 99% of games are bad"
Tell me something new ;)

You're right, it is expected that 40 years later games are better. Point is, if I can enjoy Star Wars Empire Strikes Back on the Atari, why wouldn't I enjoy Temple Run or whatever mobile game people enjoy these days.

I'm talking about touch screen controls in general, you cannot escape the fact that you need to physically cover the display to play the game. Considering we are talking about 'Mobile' devices, this means the screen is already generally small, or you limit the 'mobility' of the device. You can make games around it, but in the end you're ultimately just trying to work around a liability.

There are some games that benefit from it, but I can't think of many, if any, examples where another input system wouldn't be superior.

It's basically just the lowest possible entry point for consumers, everyone has hands (well, most people) and it doesn't require any peripherals.

I'm also not saying all mobile games are skinner boxes, but I'm just pointing out the difference between inserting more quarters and micro-transactions in the popular model that is being used.

I don't know how Sonic Runners works because the game looks incredibly dull to me.

But we have far more options than just the games from 4 decades ago. If you feel that Temple run and the like are equal to other modern games then that's fine, but I disagree.

Again, not all mobile phone games are skinner boxes or terrible, but I've outlined reasons above why none of them have held my interest for very long. I will say that I played Hitman Go a bit this morning on the train and it's still quite fun. I bought it for $1 in the Eidos humble bundle though. I'll probably stop playing it by the time I buy a new book to read instead.


Well yes if you have an iPhone but I have a Note 3. My finger probably only covers 5% of the screen at most. Although I can agree on the physical feedback, I've found Sonic the Hedgehog 2 to be excellent on mobile and have had no issues with the controls after getting used to the lack of buttons.

I have a One plus One which is also a sizeable phone, but I still don't like to play anything real-time because of the issue of covering the screen with my hand and fingers. You can mitigate the downsides by making the display larger but you still have to cover the screen.

I used to play emulated games on my phone but found them borderline unplayable with touch screen. If you can play Sonic 2 then I'm genuinely impressed. I just find it too frustrating to be fun.

I just find Chain Chronicle enjoyable in short bursts, the strategic elements are unfortunately undermined if you level up to greatly, but the cast of characters, art and story was enjoyable enough to me to keep playing. There's going to be balancing issues addressed in version 2 with a lot more content that I'm looking forward too. The social aspect is pretty fun too, who'd have thought it'd be what I post most on NeoGAF about : P

Also I don't know why you wouldn't hold any hopes of an action game from SEGA ever again. I think you might be a bit too harsh on their production capability, wither the project gets localised or if it's something that interests you is something else entirely.

You find Chain Chronicles more fun and involving than Bayonetta? What about other Sega RPGs?
I would like to try Chain Chronicles, but it required me to be always online to play it (presumably so Sega can sell my personal details to the Yakuza) and it kept nagging me to buy shit even when the game wasn't running, so I uninstalled it.

As for Sega making another action game, do you really, truly believe there's more than a 1 in 1000 chance of that? Sega didn't even want to publish Bayonetta 2 which is an established IP that they own with a decent first game launch. Why would they try something again? They think translating PSO or Yakuza is 'too risky', why would they make a niche genre game?

When you say it wouldn't appeal to me, what do you mean, I feel I'm pretty open to most genres and styles if the game looks fun. I don't even see them making one for Japan only at this rate.

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #47 on: May 28, 2015, 01:21:04 pm »
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You're completely missing (on purpose?) my point.Arcade games have NOTHING to do with controller types. I could name hundreds of arcade games and not two of them sharing the same controllers
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No the point you seem to be missing is that you can make a list of hundrends of Arcade games and hardly any of them will only use touch screen controls for the game - like a mobile phone does , never mind I can't think of one Arcade game that is played on a screen less that 10 inches big


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[/color]I also agree with Sharky, the average mobile game is superior to 99% of those old ass games (even still enjoying some of those green dots and whatnot
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And the adverage Arcade or home console game is way better too . The trouble with mobile games overlooking the interface is the size of limits of most mobile phones . You know  even back in my ZX Spectrum days I hated it when I was told to move my system upstairs  to play in the 14 inch colour portable , rather than inthe big TV in the living room after Christmas break , never mind that the limited display of the phone is also obstructed by one hands when playing any mobile game , never mind the massive downgrade in gfx and sound compared to a AAA next gen console or PC game ..

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Offline Aki-at

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2015, 01:23:48 pm »
I have a One plus One which is also a sizeable phone, but I still don't like to play anything real-time because of the issue of covering the screen with my hand and fingers. You can mitigate the downsides by making the display larger but you still have to cover the screen.

I used to play emulated games on my phone but found them borderline unplayable with touch screen. If you can play Sonic 2 then I'm genuinely impressed. I just find it too frustrating to be fun.

I do think it's an issue, but the bigger the screen the less the drawback it is. There is still an issue, like the Sonic's facing but I seem to have come to grips with it. I actually don't find it frustrating to play in the slightest and I can clock the Death Egg Zone in about a minute.

You find Chain Chronicles more fun and involving than Bayonetta? What about other Sega RPGs?

I like the characters, the gameplay is fun in short bursts (I know you'd suggest read a book or listen to music but what if I feel like doing neither? : P ) and I wouldn't mind a sequel expanding on the idea. The social aspect is cool if you get involved with a community too but version 2 has the biggest update for gameplay with missions (IE only archers, class debuffs etc) so I'm excited to see what the future brings too.

As for Sega making another action game, do you really, truly believe there's more than a 1 in 1000 chance of that? Sega didn't even want to publish Bayonetta 2 which is an established IP that they own with a decent first game launch. Why would they try something again? They think translating PSO or Yakuza is 'too risky', why would they make a niche genre game?

Why so pessmistic? SEGA sanctioned the development of a single player survival horror with limited gunplay and no multiplayer, releasing it to critical acclaim. Yeah it was part of the Alien IP but it's not like they had more luck with the franchise then right now.

Furthermore Phantasy Star Online 2 wasn't translated because it's too risky, you've got that one wrong. SEGA's stance is that it's still "coming" me and George speculate it's because SEGA sold the foreign rights off and now are stuck in legal redtape causing the delay but that's not certain. It's not officially cancelled.

Yakuza is completely different though, the games sold progressively worse in the West one after another, that's why they stopped releasing it here (Combined with poor performance of other titles.) but the series is an interesting one. It's not a cheap production in the least but SEGA is happy with sales of 500,000 on a yearly basis, even Alien's target sales of 2.3 million weren't exactly lofty, furthermore purchasing the likes of Atlus means they're happy with medium series so long as they remain profitable.

So if they're okay with an action game selling a million or two, I don't see why they wouldn't sanction another one. Furthermore I always considered their relationship with Platinum Games "damaged" Anarchy Reign > Madworld > Vanquish > Infinite Space. It wasn't Bayonetta that killed their relationships but the other four failed games.

When you say it wouldn't appeal to me, what do you mean, I feel I'm pretty open to most genres and styles if the game looks fun. I don't even see them making one for Japan only at this rate.

This meant for more traditional games like Phantasy Star Nova or Shining Resonance. They may or may not make another action game but they've shown they're not exactly a publisher that is easy to second guess.

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2015, 01:53:25 pm »
I do think it's an issue, but the bigger the screen the less the drawback it is. There is still an issue, like the Sonic's facing but I seem to have come to grips with it. I actually don't find it frustrating to play in the slightest and I can clock the Death Egg Zone in about a minute.

What do you mean by 'Sonic's Facing'? Is it hard to make small movements to just change the direction he's facing or something you mean?

Either way I haven't tried any emulated games on my new phone, but found Metal Slug 3 to still be un fun. That might be because it's a more involving game involving moving and aiming, but even so, it's a limitation to what I can and want to play on the platform.

I like the characters, the gameplay is fun in short bursts (I know you'd suggest read a book or listen to music but what if I feel like doing neither? : P ) and I wouldn't mind a sequel expanding on the idea. The social aspect is cool if you get involved with a community too but version 2 has the biggest update for gameplay with missions (IE only archers, class debuffs etc) so I'm excited to see what the future brings too.

I didn't mean to belittle it or suggest 'lol read a book', sorry if it came off like that. I was genuinely surprised you enjoyed the game so much. I knew you thought it was a fun mobile game, but I didn't realise you found it so engrossing is all. Didn't mean to come off snarky :(

It sounds like the sort of thing I could enjoy, but for the reasons I mentioned I haven't played it on mobile and don't plan to :/
Would be awesome if they made a retail release game, but it might not lend itself to that.

Furthermore Phantasy Star Online 2 wasn't translated because it's too risky, you've got that one wrong. SEGA's stance is that it's still "coming" me and George speculate it's because SEGA sold the foreign rights off and now are stuck in legal redtape causing the delay but that's not certain. It's not officially cancelled.

Yakuza is completely different though, the games sold progressively worse in the West one after another, that's why they stopped releasing it here (Combined with poor performance of other titles.) but the series is an interesting one. It's not a cheap production in the least but SEGA is happy with sales of 500,000 on a yearly basis, even Alien's target sales of 2.3 million weren't exactly lofty, furthermore purchasing the likes of Atlus means they're happy with medium series so long as they remain profitable.

I admit I didn't know that about PSO2. Point about Yakuza declining in sales, but my point is that they seem content to sit on their purchased franchises and milk them for all they are worth + licensed games rather than try something big and new. Can't blame them either sadly.

Atlus seems to be left to it's own devices, I wouldn't be surprised to see Atlus publish an action game (probably based on Persona at this rate), but not Sega.

So if they're okay with an action game selling a million or two, I don't see why they wouldn't sanction another one. Furthermore I always considered their relationship with Platinum Games "damaged" Anarchy Reign > Madworld > Vanquish > Infinite Space. It wasn't Bayonetta that killed their relationships but the other four failed games.

That's the crux of the matter, they shopped out Bayonetta 2 rather than publish it themselves. If they wouldn't even publish an established IP, made by the leading team in the genre with a relatively good existing fanbase/first game launch, why do you think they would revisit it?

If they had any interest in making an action game, why didn't they publish the action game they had full ownership of isntead of shopping it off to another publisher instead?

Not to mention, what is Sega showing us in terms of new IPs or projects that would lead me to believe they would ever go back to making an action game of that ilk?

As for Shining Resonance/Nova, I can't speak to those game's quality but I probably wouldn't even know they existed if you hadn't mentioned them just now. I would be happy with a low key release, but I doubt that would even happen at this point. I wouldn't want a nerfed game thrown onto handhelds like Valk 2 though.

Am I really being overly pessimistic?

Offline Nirmugen

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2015, 03:01:02 pm »
Why people think Bayonetta 1 was a good sucess? Don't get me wrong but I know people that bought the game first day and they talked me about being the only ones that buy because many people says "Sega,ugh,don't buy" and pass the title.


Even that, when they are promoting this game in Europe, they gave it a copy for Free because nobody bought it.


Until the buzz happen, Sega lost money, a lot with also the other PG projects.

Offline Sharky

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2015, 03:10:36 pm »
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Although, I find it strange you're so adopting on Mobile Phone games, but at the same time said you wouldn't have played 80's video games? Why wouldn't you rather read a book, watch a movie or play a table top game than play mobile phone games for example?

Sometimes I WOULD rather watch a film or especially read a book and often do, but when I do want to play a game it will be something I enjoy and I rarely find any joy in games that old and simple. On the other hand mobile games offer a quick pick up and play burst of fun, especially great for waiting in line, before a meeting, in the doctors office or any other free moment.



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Well, certainly your own opinion is valid, but as I've thought more about it, what ruffles my feathers about being completely dismissive toward earlier games is the difference between technological prowess and artistic merit. Technology is always endeavored in advancement and progress. Mediums develop, evolve and go through massive changes. (We're on the cusp of another as we'll see in the next few years how VR and AR do in the general consumer marketplace.)

But games have always been more than technology - they are art as well. Not just visual art and audio art, but that other intangible quality - fun. And these artistic, intangible qualities are not about achieving technical progress, but achieving the status of timeless classics. To dismiss early games based on appearances and sound, you've missed the fun as well. If some of those old games weren't classic with deep gameplay, the industry would not have continued to develop. And because they are classics, some of them are still worth playing.

I disagree that because something is a 'classic' it's worth playing... I'm glad it existed, I'm glad that like wooden Victorian era dildos they existed so that we can have nice ones now.... But just like wooden dildos I have no intention of wasting any time trying to eek out enjoyment from early games.


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I also agree with MadeMan's assessment that there's a serious difference in the prevailing design of mobile games versus classic arcade games. Mobile game design is often sinister... borderline evil. Frankly, a classic arcade game appeals to the best in people - striving to improve your skill. Mobile games appeal to the worst in people - addiction, and impatience. Oh, you're getting better at the game? Screw you, wait a few hours anyway. It's awful, and I'll tell you one thing for sure - that kind of "hook" was not designed by a game designer, it was designed by a cynical psychologist.

'Mobile games' are not a genre... Mobile gaming is a platform... You're talking about free2play games specifically which may or may not be 'evil.' But f2p isn't exclusive to mobile either... PSO2 is f2p. Mobile gaming, as a platform has many genres of games including many ports of classic console games.
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2015, 03:23:28 pm »
Sometimes I WOULD rather watch a film or especially read a book and often do, but when I do want to play a game it will be something I enjoy and I rarely find any joy in games that old and simple. On the other hand mobile games offer a quick pick up and play burst of fun, especially great for waiting in line, before a meeting, in the doctors office or any other free moment.

That's fair, and the way I play mobile games too. But I'm putting it on the same level as a trashy magazine or the back of the cereal box when relegating it to only being played while I'm waiting at the VD clinic.

Is it purely a matter of convenience that you like mobile games then? That certainly is their #1 advantage, and the IMO the reason they are so popular.


Either way the reason I asked was I wanted to know what it was about Mobile games in particular you enjoyed more than old arcade games. What are some of your fave mobile games for example? I think mine are Hitman Go and Knights of the Old Republic, I wanted to try Chain Chronicles but.. yeah.



'Mobile games' are not a genre... Mobile gaming is a platform... You're talking about free2play games specifically which may or may not be 'evil.' But f2p isn't exclusive to mobile either... PSO2 is f2p. Mobile gaming, as a platform has many genres of games including many ports of classic console games.

He did mention specifically it's certain designs of games, not all mobile games.

As for the ports of classic console games, I've already outlined my reasons I don't enjoy them on mobile devices.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 03:34:52 pm by MadeManG74 »

Offline Sharky

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2015, 06:33:48 pm »

Is it purely a matter of convenience that you like mobile games then? That certainly is their #1 advantage, and the IMO the reason they are so popular.
Yes and no, originally its often for convenience, sometimes its because someone said the game is cool and I want to check it out but very often I will get engrossed and end up spending plenty of time on a mobile game.


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Either way the reason I asked was I wanted to know what it was about Mobile games in particular you enjoyed more than old arcade games. What are some of your fave mobile games for example? I think mine are Hitman Go and Knights of the Old Republic, I wanted to try Chain Chronicles but.. yeah.

Often I'll play ports, some are good some aren't. As someone mentioned Monument Valley is a good game. There is a SEGA game called Kingdoms Conquest 2 which was brilliant but dated now and I really hope they make another. For simple games there is a Super Monkey Ball Peggle clone that yes I only downloaded because it was SMB themed but I actually go back to quite often.
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Offline DarthTsarkon

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2015, 07:13:30 pm »
I can't say I'm crazy about it. When I got my first smartphone I was all about it but my interest quickly waned. Be it emu's or new content, I just can't stay focused on them. I think part of it for me hinges on the fact I prefer time consuming games that keep me planted in my seat for a while. So staring at a phone or a tablet is not my idea of fun. Plus, I think mobile gaming is more for the casual gamer. Quick games that are more of a time waster than a game. That is of course, not always the case, but it makes up alot of them.


I don't play as much as I used to when I was younger due to many factors, but when I do game I typically look for RPGs and sims. Games that will lock me in and keep me interested for many months. I just don't get that out of the mobile market.

Offline George

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2015, 08:23:01 pm »
As for the issue with screen size, Google is now moving forward on fixing that. Their 'cast API' went on beta.

Soon:
http://www.google.com/cast/

You can also use bluetooth controllers in games.

Offline DarthTsarkon

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2015, 12:26:15 am »
As for the issue with screen size, Google is now moving forward on fixing that. Their 'cast API' went on beta.

Soon:
http://www.google.com/cast/

You can also use bluetooth controllers in games.


Well, that does help but then I wouldn't exactly call that mobile. At that point, I'd rather be on my PC or a console. I get that there are pros in regards to mobile gaming, ease of access for casuals for one, but that isn't something I am really into. Just my viewpoint, not saying everyone feels that way.


I still love to play some Heroes of Might and Magic 2 on my tablet when I am on the go, but when I am home I'd rather just play on my PC. There is no doubt a shift to mobile gaming happening, it has been that way for a while now, but I don't see it ever replacing time intensive games anytime soon if ever. When you have to upgrade you screen and use controllers, I just don't see why people would want to mess with it.

Offline George

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2015, 12:38:48 am »
Or you can play on your phone with touch controls.

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2015, 08:40:15 am »
Or you can play on your phone with touch controls.

Which goes right back to all the reasons outlined why touch controls are inherently bad for most games.
I like the idea of blowing it up to a bigger screen when you're home, but touch controls would be terrible for that because you need to see where you are touching because of now physical buttons to be able to 'navigate' by feel. Which means; you're just looking at the tiny screen again anyway.


Offline crackdude

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Re: Have you embraced mobile gaming?
« Reply #59 on: May 29, 2015, 09:47:52 am »
Which goes right back to all the reasons outlined why touch controls are inherently bad for most games.
I like the idea of blowing it up to a bigger screen when you're home, but touch controls would be terrible for that because you need to see where you are touching because of now physical buttons to be able to 'navigate' by feel. Which means; you're just looking at the tiny screen again anyway.
Everything you just said is subjective to the game you are playing.
You can play CT:CR in a bigscreen with touch controlls without any issue. It plays great. Same thing with Sonic Runners or a number of other games optimized to touch.
You don't have to look at what you're touching.

It's like saying all PSX games were shit because you only played Barbie Horse Adventures and Vib Ribbon
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