Author Topic: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan  (Read 42490 times)

Offline crackdude

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2012, 08:19:24 am »
I'm not continuing this argument over nothing if you continue to misuse what I say.
But some points that you completely missed:


Football Manager is not an old game. FM 2013 came out two weeks ago for both PSP and iPad.
The best Vita games are still just PSP games.
I don't hate the Vita. i just think it doesn't have the same value as an iPad or flagship mobile phone. Btw, an iPad mini costs 340euros with 16gb. A Vita with 16gb will run you about, you guessed it, 340 euros.


Again, I don't hate the Vita. But the promise of a portable PS3 means nothing when you have access to an actual PS3 and can't manage more than 40minutes game time while away from home.
Even less so when there are better alternatives at quick arcade experiences for cheaper on much more versitile devices.


I don't understand why not thinking the Vita is worth it mean I hate it, because I don't. But there's a reason it isn't selling, and the reason is that I'm not the only one that thinks this way.
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Offline ungibbed

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2012, 12:55:31 pm »
I'm not continuing this argument over nothing if you continue to misuse what I say.
But some points that you completely missed:


Football Manager is not an old game. FM 2013 came out two weeks ago for both PSP and iPad.
The best Vita games are still just PSP games.
I don't hate the Vita. i just think it doesn't have the same value as an iPad or flagship mobile phone. Btw, an iPad mini costs 340euros with 16gb. A Vita with 16gb will run you about, you guessed it, 340 euros.


Again, I don't hate the Vita. But the promise of a portable PS3 means nothing when you have access to an actual PS3 and can't manage more than 40minutes game time while away from home.
Even less so when there are better alternatives at quick arcade experiences for cheaper on much more versitile devices.


I don't understand why not thinking the Vita is worth it mean I hate it, because I don't. But there's a reason it isn't selling, and the reason is that I'm not the only one that thinks this way.

Once again you dodge logic in the most confusing manner. The iPad mini is the worst investment anyone could buy into as it will have a Retina display in the next version.

You say I'm misusing your post somehow but when you post your opinion and preference as fact, it's a complete fallacy regardless. Somehow you feel the tablet and mobile gaming market is the same as dedicated handheld gaming. They are two very different markets entirely. If you can't put that together then there is no point in trying to explain that to you when you fail to listen to actual fact vs. opinion.

Mobile phones and tablets have become much better in gaming since the days of my old Nokia but they still have many limitations vs. dedicated gaming devices.

I avoid responding to your opinions based on principal as you already claim you pirate software and games which leads to the point here, if you're stealing something for "free" why are you arguing pricing at all?

Makes no sense at all as you claim the best games on the Vita are PSP games. This is another opinion, not a fact.

Comparing the budget iPad mini vs. what I paid for my Vita... puzzling and pointless. I already own an iPad. Why argue over the cost between the budget model iPad vs. the PlayStation Vita? Again, two completely different markets and designed to do things differently.

Not forgetting that the all new iPad mini is based off the long outdated hardware of the iPad 2 only with a improved camera.

Abusing your posts... wow... just... wow...   :o

BTW... Football Manager was released here as the last posted update back in 2011! When you wish to post facts, research is a wonderful tool. Just tap previous updates and keep on scrolling. On your very own iPad you will see the truth.


Have a nice day...  ???
I despise ignorant fanboys. Enjoy the great games on all systems or platforms. There is no reason for blind hate...

Offline crackdude

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2012, 04:27:19 pm »
I never said they are the same markets. But I did imply that the tablet market is eating up the handheld one. Which specialists believe it is.
Dedicated handhelds have many advantages to multipurpose devices, but the advantages offered today aren't compelling enough for most tablet/smartphone users. This is obvious, and I don't even understand what's to argue here, since the declining handheld sales clearly show that.


I said I pirated, I never said I didn't buy games.
And if we are arguing about the Vita based on personal experience rather than market appeal, then I'll just say it's shit cause I can't pirate it and end the discussion. But that would be boring.


Quote
This is another opinion, not a fact.
An opinion in the middle of a text about how in my opinion the Vita is a waste of money? Sacre bleu!


Then you go on and on with pointless blabbering on how the Vita and iPad markets are different, just fucking because I suppose.


Quote
BTW... Football Manager was released here as the last posted update back in 2011! When you wish to post facts, research is a wonderful tool. Just tap previous updates and keep on scrolling. On your very own iPad you will see the truth.
iPad:
https://itunes.apple.com/app/football-manager-handheld/id580830559?mt=8
PSP:
https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/pt-pt/jogos/football-manager-handheld-2013/cid=EP0177-ULES01582_00-GPCFOOTBAL000001


Stop being a fucking moron and do your own goddamned research.


I'm fed up with this completely pointless discussion. I see in your arguments nothing but an hopeless attempt to justify your own expenditure of huge amounts of money on something that has it's future compromised by people like me.
You're not actually arguing me, you're arguing against the state of the industry. Against the merger of tablet and handheld.


I'm glad you're enjoying your console, but stop forcing it down my throat. Just accept that most people who think like me won't care until the price drops and the good games step in. And fucking move on. Jesus Christ.
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Offline ungibbed

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2012, 08:34:34 pm »
I never said they are the same markets. But I did imply that the tablet market is eating up the handheld one. Which specialists believe it is.
Dedicated handhelds have many advantages to multipurpose devices, but the advantages offered today aren't compelling enough for most tablet/smartphone users. This is obvious, and I don't even understand what's to argue here, since the declining handheld sales clearly show that.


I said I pirated, I never said I didn't buy games.
And if we are arguing about the Vita based on personal experience rather than market appeal, then I'll just say it's shit cause I can't pirate it and end the discussion. But that would be boring.

An opinion in the middle of a text about how in my opinion the Vita is a waste of money? Sacre bleu!


Then you go on and on with pointless blabbering on how the Vita and iPad markets are different, just fucking because I suppose.

iPad:
https://itunes.apple.com/app/football-manager-handheld/id580830559?mt=8
PSP:
https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/pt-pt/jogos/football-manager-handheld-2013/cid=EP0177-ULES01582_00-GPCFOOTBAL000001


Stop being a fucking moron and do your own goddamned research.


I'm fed up with this completely pointless discussion. I see in your arguments nothing but an hopeless attempt to justify your own expenditure of huge amounts of money on something that has it's future compromised by people like me.
You're not actually arguing me, you're arguing against the state of the industry. Against the merger of tablet and handheld.


I'm glad you're enjoying your console, but stop forcing it down my throat. Just accept that most people who think like me won't care until the price drops and the good games step in. And fucking move on. Jesus Christ.

The same fucking game has been available here since 2011, not my fault you have been behind in the game market. Never tell me that I don't research. Did you fall for the the yearly hamster wheel? Why are you whining at me? Did you feel compelled to post to get in that last word?

Secondly, spare me the drama... Shoving the Vita down your throat? I don't see who that is physically possible.  ::) if you don't like it, don't buy it, just spare me the drama...PLEASE!

I don't need to justify any purchase of mine to anyone, if you think that way. A breath of fresh air really is in need and stop visiting this topic just for the sake of doing so.  :-X ! If you wish to continue spouting off about it, be my guest as you're only making yourself look quite foolish. I don't throw money away. I buy the product that offers me the most for my hard earned money. If you have issues with decisions like that, I think there is something more to this than what has been revealed.

Finally, as one who IS in the industry, tablet/mobile games are still treated at a separate market than typical handhelds and always will be... Think you're going to play Super Mario on your iPad without resorting to piracy and crap emulation? Guess again. I'd love a great LoZ: OOT port to my iPad, it's not going to happen.

The exclusives will remain just that. Exclusive.

Still, I've found plenty of other games on my iPad that were worth the original launch prices for many games. Many of these games may never make it to a dedicated handheld.
I despise ignorant fanboys. Enjoy the great games on all systems or platforms. There is no reason for blind hate...

Offline crackdude

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2012, 06:40:22 am »
I sent you links to FM freaking 2013. Which came out last week. Not 2012.


Resorting to emulation or not, the Vita is seriously lacking in games!


And don't you agree that the mobile market is eating up the handheld one?
Companies treating them like separate is exactly the reason sales are abysmal. People want games, regardless of platform. And gaming on the Vita is expensive.


There's a reason the PSP is selling better than the Vita. Cost. For both developers and consumers.
SEG4GES

Offline ungibbed

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2012, 03:29:58 pm »
I sent you links to FM freaking 2013. Which came out last week. Not 2012.


Resorting to emulation or not, the Vita is seriously lacking in games!


And don't you agree that the mobile market is eating up the handheld one?
Companies treating them like separate is exactly the reason sales are abysmal. People want games, regardless of platform. And gaming on the Vita is expensive.


There's a reason the PSP is selling better than the Vita. Cost. For both developers and consumers.

I took that screencap as you refused to believe that I said the game was out for a number of years. If you're going to have a hissyfit over the smallest of details, be my guest. I only said that it had been out for a few years regardless of yearly star updates like Madden Football for everything under the sun.

Again you argue markets but at least you are LEARNING that tthere are separate markets between mobile smartphone gaming and traditional handhelds.

Here is the lowdown...

Of course it is less expensive to develop on the PSP as it already has an established userbase something that Vital owners can also access once games go live on PSN. The PSP like the PS2 are dying if not already dead in the market as not only do gamers want more engaging experiences but also do the developers want a beefier platform for more complex games without having to make so much compromise.

Mobile gaming is a fast ROI market that capitalizes on in app purchases and other ways to monitize the product. The mobile gaming experience is also rather different in many ways with limited control methods that can be rather frustrating. Crossover devices such as the Xperia Play were a failure as mobile developers had to put in custom code to support it vs. a common touch screen device. Issues with Android fragmentation were also problems as not all phones were common architecture as the iPhone (which was rather cramped to play with such a small display.

Enter the iPad, small display problems were gone but not until the iPad 2 was it powerful enough to really take advantage of more complex character models and shared a common device architecture that original iPad owners could still play a recent game, but at a loss of detail due to limited memory and the slower A4 Arm CPU.

Some games worked better for mobile than dedicated counterparts but other games with the same title were completely different. Best games I've played on my iPad were mainly exclusive titles with only touch input in mind but also worked well. The Pinball HD series is a personal favorite along with games with mobile design in mind (Dead Space) and of course the Infinity Blade series.

Im not blind to great mobile games, I enjoy them and buy those worth the money. All is not quite rosy though. A good example of a completely different game on mobile due to limitations is the latest Need For Speed game Most Wanted. The game ported to the Vita was scaled back from it's bigger console brothers but you still had the complete free roaming environment. The mobile game was stripped of that and only a straight race affair without the freedom of choosing your own route. It looks great, but the game is not even near what was done on a dedicated system. Not to mention the extra ways of fleecing you for a few bucks here and there.

The mobile market primarily focuses on in game purchases despite what a low cost entry may be. Want to get rid of them annoying ads? $1.99 etc. (you may get the picture or choose to think such things don't exist)

Even in the best mobile games such as the incredibly well made Dead Space has in game purchases. That's how the mobile market survives and is a primary focus in mobile game development regardless of platform.

That is a pure fact that you can't deny as much as you would love to. That's why the initial price of mobile games can be so low. They are developed separately and treated as a separate market.

I despise ignorant fanboys. Enjoy the great games on all systems or platforms. There is no reason for blind hate...

Offline crackdude

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2012, 06:52:40 pm »
I've yet to read the whole comment, but in regard to the first paragraph, what the hell are you talking about! The Manager series as been around since 1992!! I've been playing it since 96.
Of course it's yearly, I was talking about the newest one (which is not just a stat update, it has significant improvements in key areas over last year).


As for the second paragraph, I've never said they were the same market (I may have re-typed this same sentence for 3 or 4 times now lol)


I'll get back to you with some more patience in a next reply in a couple of hours, I just got home and am still in a rush.
Sorry sorry!
SEG4GES

Offline ungibbed

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2012, 07:50:36 pm »
I've yet to read the whole comment, but in regard to the first paragraph, what the hell are you talking about! The Manager series as been around since 1992!

Like I said long before, the game has been out for years the other day. Then you went off on a wild tangent which just was silly. I don't care for the game but know it exists and you cried out like I didn't know what the hell I was talking about. I don't give a rats ass about yearly updated sports titles and Football (known as soccer here in the USA) even less. Why bother?

The reason I keep reminding you of mobile gaming vs. dedicated handhelds is due to the fact that you keep comparing them yet not really understanding why. As your example of pricing an iPad mini against a PS Vita with a 16GB memory card. Again, why? The two devices couldn't be more different yet you still have trouble understanding.

If you're just arguing price, all Apple products have grossly over inflated pricing. Yet people still buy them including myself. Despite the price of the low end iPad mini with a pitiful amount of storage to a gaming device when they are clearly for different markets, why compare them at all?
I despise ignorant fanboys. Enjoy the great games on all systems or platforms. There is no reason for blind hate...

Offline crackdude

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2012, 05:05:18 am »
But the issue in my opinion isn't if they are different markets or not.


I consider me and my peers to be target demographic for the Vita, for example. University students with some money and an active lifestyle that love games, that should be a handheld console buy right there.
Thing is, we already carry iPads around all the time. Some (like me) go triple combo and carry phone+mp3+ipad. We don't want to carry yet ANOTHER device.
Even more so when my iPad is capable of entertaining us with cheap/free games. They may not be as full featured, but rarely do you want full featured high concentration games on the train ride/10 minute break.


You see, I'm not saying they aren't different markets. But the versatility of the tablets is hurting the handheld market a lot. Do you understand now why I compare them?


You also say the PSP is dead. Maybe in the US, but it's selling more than the Vita in Japan on a regular basis.
Japanese devs are still shellin out PSP games that never come to the West, instead of supporting the Vita. West devs on the other hand don't want to invest in the Vita. The result are shallow ports. Sony needs to come up with a killer app and fast.


For the next generation I was contemplating turning to PC gaming and getting a handheld for the quicky videogame fix. I was planning a Vita, but now I don't know if the console will survive. It's really a shame.
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Offline ungibbed

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2012, 08:41:54 pm »
You see, I'm not saying they aren't different markets. But the versatility of the tablets is hurting the handheld market a lot. Do you understand now why I compare them?

Regardless if you compare them that way, developers/publishers still market them differently and treat them as separate markets. End of story. Once you graduate and possibly land a job at such an establishment, things may change. As it it's now, they remain separate entities entirely.

You also say the PSP is dead. Maybe in the US, but it's selling more than the Vita in Japan on a regular basis.
Japanese devs are still shellin out PSP games that never come to the West, instead of supporting the Vita. West devs on the other hand don't want to invest in the Vita. The result are shallow ports. Sony needs to come up with a killer app and fast.

Being that Sony has finally laid the PS2 to rest in Japan, guess what's next. Till then even if the PSP finally gets the axe, those late to get thier games to market on PSN can still be played on the Vita.

For the next generation I was contemplating turning to PC gaming and getting a handheld for the quicky videogame fix. I was planning a Vita, but now I don't know if the console will survive. It's really a shame.

Given the amount of time that Sony invested making the Vita a reality, I seriously doubt it's going to dry out and blow away. Back in the day when the PSP hit the shelves here in the US, it was adopted rather slowly as developers were cashing in still on the Game Boy Advance SP and the "third pillar" experiment known as the Nintendo DS, the PSP had some tough competition.

Just wait till Sony Santa Monica gets something on the bugger after God of War origins is released. You can bet they have plans for the little beast. The Vita has a huge amount of potential as does the 3DS. Sony wants to bring a handheld console experience which is an odd goal but I imagine that will change. Games already out for it do rival their PS3 counterparts (Little Big Planet, Super Stardust Delta, etc)

Handheld gaming is something Nintendo had dialed down quite well but when bringing a console port to the 3DS, things just don't jive quite as well due to the lower resolution display. Compare MGS3: Snake Eater for both. Each system has it's style of games and genres just as a mobile phone does. Still they are not marketed against each other.

Mobile gaming is a low risk, high yield market. There's a lot more phones in the hands of people than there is a 3DS or PSP or Vita. So quick small games are the mobile market concept. Sure you can still play the DS ports of Final Fantasy on a iPhone or Android which bucks the trend completely. There's another trick though. Tablets of various models get more popular every day and while not a necessary item, they are easier than carrying a notebook PC. So the market that tablets are eating slowly away at is essentially the PC gaming sector or to gain funds from people who don't care to play games on a mobile phone. That is why it is a separate market. Games made for easy access/instant reward but still fleecing your pocketbook if you're the impatient type. That is why a mobile/tablet game can get away with such a low entry price (aside from games by Squaresoft which are spendy).

Hopefully you can understand how this all works...
I despise ignorant fanboys. Enjoy the great games on all systems or platforms. There is no reason for blind hate...

Offline semmie

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2012, 07:21:12 am »
i really have mixed feelings tho. just today again i was looking at it. it kinda drags you to buy it.
my love says yes do it pso2 is coming. Come on sem buy it

but when i become realistic ill just stick to one handheld 3ds or wait untill it gets a normal pricetag.

waiting has a bad side as well i must say. so what if pso2 comes out. and everyone will want to play it and all servers will be busy. if i buy it too late i might get online but then by that time everyone will hack pso2 like they did with psp2infinity.

so its dilemma.

but all with all when i play 3ds heroes of ruins(kinda like bards tale) but online. i forget vita.
but its always there.

its not vita tho that i love. i hate all non sega consoles handhelds. you know im an extremist. but if i wanna play sega games and good games mainly ill have to buy at least one handheld and one console.


Offline semmie

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2013, 01:15:03 am »
i found myself being with the psvita in my hand again no kidding. i had to decide wether id buy 2 independent trucks for my skateboard and ne w handwraps for my thaiboxing. i bought ballprotectors. and i kinda gambled to buy size M you see i didnt wanna say i have a big size of my warrior.

so i went home and fit the ballprotector. and the damn thing is to small for my balls. now i dont want to say i hve  big stash. but i brought it back and got my money back. and right next to it the store of games(the guy had hard times taking them back cause of the hygiene but thats another discussion)

so basically i went back to the game store. i got the vita and freaking bought it without thinking. cause thinking would lead me to having regrets. so the game i bought with it is assassins creed. not sonic cause i have that one on my ps3. it would be crazy to have the same game on all platforms. i went home with mixed feelings.

and this is where it starts to make sense that u cant judge such a thing untilll u have it.
the 3ds i played it badly resident evil revellations. it was really good. but when i look at the shelves i started to see that nintendo doesnt have that much games either. yes loads of marios. some dumb detective games. heroes of ruins(bards of tails alike with online co op. i wontsaay diablo cause that game is too good) basically my hots on ds are: resident evil rev   heroes of ruins and sonic generations. the thing is we allready saw metal gear and splintr cell. nothing new there.

back to the vita
i unboxed it carefully like i wanted to bring it back if i dont like it. assassins creed on it and started to play. 1 hour
2 hours
3hours
4hours
without even knowing i was in the game. and enjoyed the 3d and seriously i had less headache then the 3ds 3d. and the annoyance whenever i bow the 3ds or put it differently n my hand i see the game double.

now maybe u will think im greedy. but i actually brought the vita back and got myself monkeyball of 3ds and got the rest of the money back.
i was really happy havin my money back. cause i saw how muchit was i gave.

but to give the vita at least some props. the controls are good.
and its bige and it should be big. dreamcast controls were also big that time. all dumb psx fans were dissing it but it was ergonomic and soon all consoles started to have bigger controls. the ps3 is still an exception.
so the bigness of vita is ergonomic.

the cons are still that it has only a view games
not to forget sony has been a loyal console cause all the consoles they had were supported for a very long time.
(i hate to say it. it hurts)
so if vita is selling bad we cant really say that much for now. it may end up like saturn making many games but not that much developers. or it will shock people that actually had the chance to risen up.

i loved playing assassins creed.
it was just as nice as playing resident evil revelations. they are both a different franchise so i cant say which game was better.
the only reason i brought it back cause i felt scared. and why cause all is so expensive. i wanna skateboard and fight. and we are not the richest.
kinda crazy cause i had swore i wouldnt buy it. and technically i didnt. kinda unfair. but i took one lesson from it. and i have but these 2 complains

1. Where are the freaking games mofos.
2. get the freaking price low or face the wrath of god for greediness

Offline crackdude

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2013, 05:30:04 am »
I rolled off laughing with your balls protection story ahahah

Your story reminds me of when I bought DJ Hero at launch price. I 100% the game in 2 days, so I simply brought it back to the store and got my money back. The unit itself wasn't registering some scratches correctly, which was hurting my combos, so I didn't feel too bad about it.

Where are the games mofos indeed.
SEG4GES

Offline Nameless 24

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2013, 08:29:31 am »
Vita may have a companion with the Wii U soon.
Big fan of Claymore, Miria in particular.

Currently playing Yakuza 0.

Offline ungibbed

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Re: PS vita is doing extremely bad in japan
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2013, 11:49:53 am »
Comparing the Vita and the Wii U in a hardware perspective, Sony really pushed ahead in pure product engineering as every component on the Vita is new leading to a higher price per unit built. That I can respect as they really raised the bar on handheld game systems.

Nintendo on the other hand has always did everything to keep costs down per unit since the days of the Gamecube where the hardware reached a profit margin per console sold (or handheld). It is why the Wii U has a resistive panel on the Wii U tablet controller as opposed to a capacitive display like a modern tablet or cell phone. The cost difference is major and the profit margin much higher.

Over many years a number of companies have sold consoles at a loss to recover the revenue in games. Early on both Nintendo and Sega did this and following along was Sony and Microsoft. The original Xbox was killing  Microsoft as they had to pay for the Nvidia chipset and the PS2 as well for Sony. Sega had a long running history of using existing components when building a console to help regain ROI much faster (the Dreamcast was the only system to buck the trend).

Over the last few days I dug out my old N64 and was rather impressed how much R&D went into the system, the visuals certainly didn't age well in comparison to other systems of that era but innovation was still there. The first analog control on a console. Sega and Sony quickly jumped on board but until the Dual Shock was bundled with new systems and the Saturn stuck to it's Dpad guns until the 3D controller was released but few games used it.

Anyway, innovation involves cost for both the hardware design and eventually the consumer. Anyone who bought a first generation iPhone canvouch for this. You had to pay full retail for the phone and then open a service agreement with AT&T. Not cheap to do but people snatched them up like mad (including myself).

What I'm really saying is there is both a cost for the manufacturer and the consumer. The price is high on new tech but as time goes by, prices drop. If anyone here bought a first generation PS3, The price of admission was high but now as Sony made money on game sales and cost cutting measures, the price is now very reasonable. Eventually I see this happening with the Vita.
I despise ignorant fanboys. Enjoy the great games on all systems or platforms. There is no reason for blind hate...