Author Topic: Passionate SEGA Discussion Topic for TA & ROJM and anyone else  (Read 40855 times)

Offline ROJM

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Re: Passionate SEGA Discussion Topic for TA & ROJM and anyone else
« Reply #120 on: March 09, 2013, 01:53:29 pm »
Every Big SEGA game will come on disc with the consoles (non HH).

Just the estabilshed franchises and some from their big developer talent but nothing less than that.

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They had a sports line, until the 1990's

No they had it during the nineties. Not before.

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SEGA was just doing what it always did and port a very successful coin up to the home and also hoping the gain sales on the back of the Olympics. Which is why no doubt the likes of konami brought Track and Field to the PS. 

Track and field was an estabilshed IP. Not really the same thing. Sega brought DECATHLETE to complete the Sega Sports brand for saturn in japan. End of.
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Desert Tank wasn't more successful for starters . And that's overlooking how it wasn't to to gain any sales on the back of the Olympics . There was quite a few ST-V games that never made it to the Saturn . Decathlete did great in the Arcade and ok in the home, which is why you get a sequel 
to both the home and Arcades.

Rubbish DESERT TANK was succesful. The fact you don't know that isn't suprising.
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No its just SEGA Japan best ever selling home console . I think you find it was SEGA America and Europe that screwed up with the 32X. SEGA Japan messed up by not making Sonic for the Saturn though.

No the screw up with the 32x is creating it in the first place and that was never SOA's call, since you like to keep blaming them for supposedly inventing that add on in the first place. SOJ screwed up royally with the saturn by not just creating a bonafide Sonic sequel that utilized the saturn but other games that were hits on the MD as well.
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Please we all know Vanquish sales was poor not breaking the 1 million sales barrier for a Big Budget multi platform release is bad news . IS sold ok at the start in Japan it flopped everywhere else though .

VANQUISH didn't have to get a million sales to be successful, that's just rubbish. it sold well and was deemed successful, the sales it garned wasn't down to japan alone.
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Hear we go your endless defence of SEGA. The deal was poor for SEGA and didn't work out and it's little wonder Platinum jumped ship or SEGA didn't even try for a new deal

Sega didn't have the funds to do a deal that Platinum wanted. Or did you miss the boat on the many games sega canned last year? It wasn't a bad deal especially with the competition that they had with everyone else. You're just sore about it because you didn't want the deal to happen in the first place judging by your constant digs at platinum ever since the whole thing was originally revealed. And if the split was so bitter than the whole deal with BAYONETTA's sequel would never been able to come about.


Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: Passionate SEGA Discussion Topic for TA & ROJM and anyone else
« Reply #121 on: March 10, 2013, 04:58:55 am »
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No they had it during the nineties. Not before.

No SEGA never had a dedicated sports Team the 1990's . You bring up Smilebit/AM6 but it wasn't until 2004 that Smilebit became 'just' a sports Team. Before then SEGA would just have a Team line that would handle a sports game ; Like a Line in  AM#1 handled most of SEGA baseball and Fishing games, AM#3 Tennis and Smilebit handling Lets make a Series, Football while also making the likes of Rally II, JSR, Hundred Swords (.

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Just the estabilshed franchises and some from their big developer talent

Every Big New IP will be on disc, like it will for all the major parties .

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Track and field was an estabilshed IP

What so of answer is that ? It was a Arcade game made in the mid 80's and where it never had a port to the main 8 or 16 bit consoles . Like SEGA, Koanmi were keen to jump on the Olympics with a sports game for the PS.

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Rubbish DESERT TANK was succesful.

No . It was really hard to find in major Arcades even in their hey day . The fact that it never had a home port or a sequel in the Arcades should tell you all you need to know .

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No the screw up with the 32x is creating it in the first place and that was never SOA's cal


At last one admits the 32X was a cock up .It was SOA call to push ahead;True to say the project was started by SOJ has they got worried by the 3DO hype  but after that SOA pushed the idea hard and they believed in the system .

SEGA Japan made 2 screw ups - Giving the 32X to SOA (instead of canning it) and not making a dedicated Sonic game early in

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VANQUISH didn't have to get a million sales to be successful, that's just rubbish

Big AAA multi platform games needs to sell a million copies mate . That's why you'll never see a sequel to the likes of Vanquished, Enslaved, Binary Domain . Great games that didn't do well at retail.

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Sega didn't have the funds to do a deal that Platinum wanted.

This coming from the one that makes out SEGA is huge and bigger than the likes of Capcom,Konami, The one that for years refused to even accept that SEGA consumer teams made losses . So the great mighty SEGA can't afford to sign up Bay II ? .

The truth is SEGA has a bit of cash, but the Platnium deal was a horrid deal for SEGA and didn't work out at all

 



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Offline ROJM

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Re: Passionate SEGA Discussion Topic for TA & ROJM and anyone else
« Reply #122 on: March 20, 2013, 09:30:15 am »
No SEGA never had a dedicated sports Team the 1990's . You bring up Smilebit/AM6 but it wasn't until 2004 that Smilebit became 'just' a sports Team. Before then SEGA would just have a Team line that would handle a sports game ; Like a Line in  AM#1 handled most of SEGA baseball and Fishing games, AM#3 Tennis and Smilebit handling Lets make a Series, Football while also making the likes of Rally II, JSR, Hundred Swords (.

i didn't bring up smilebit. you got me confused with someone else. not a suprise. sega didn't have any estabilshed sports division until sega sports and then soj only started to concentrate on a sports line during the saturn era.

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Every Big New IP will be on disc, like it will for all the major parties .

no just estabilshed ip or ip from estabilshed developers. all new ip  will majorally debut on digital.
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What so of answer is that ? It was a Arcade game made in the mid 80's and where it never had a port to the main 8 or 16 bit consoles . Like SEGA, Koanmi were keen to jump on the Olympics with a sports game for the PS.
they also needed to fill out their Sega Sports line which they did and was the reason it got ported.
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No . It was really hard to find in major Arcades even in their hey day . The fact that it never had a home port or a sequel in the Arcades should tell you all you need to know .

no it wasn't. that's like saying you could play DAYTONA in your local chippie. you couldn't. most of the model 2 arcade games were in the arcade centres at that time. DESERT TANK was all over the place, so don't come out with that bs.
 
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At last one admits the 32X was a cock up .It was SOA call to push ahead;True to say the project was started by SOJ has they got worried by the 3DO hype  but after that SOA pushed the idea hard and they believed in the system .

no it was soj's motive all along, if soj had no intrest in the add on they wouldn't have bothered releasing it in japan, for god's sake. and dont bother with the admit part either, I never said it was a good idea to make it but it was an understandable one but executed wrong. And i'm glad you finally admitting sega's  fear over the 3do which soa was trying to market the saturn as its main competitor and that was the REAL mistake.

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Big AAA multi platform games needs to sell a million copies mate . That's why you'll never see a sequel to the likes of Vanquished, Enslaved, Binary Domain . Great games that didn't do well at retail.

No. They just need to over come their budget and make a profit which VANQUISH did. BINARY DOMAIN however didn't because it didn't get the chance. A game doesn't need to see a milion copies to be judged a success. or YAKUZA would have ended years ago if it did. ::)
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This coming from the one that makes out SEGA is huge and bigger than the likes of Capcom,Konami, The one that for years refused to even accept that SEGA consumer teams made losses . So the great mighty SEGA can't afford to sign up Bay II ? .

1 they didn't make losses at the time you stated, not as big as you were making out.

Just because sega canned a few games and lost money doesn't mean they aren't a bigger company than both konami and capcom. That's like saying Arsenal isn't a big  football company despite losing money on a regular basis while a smaller club who is making money is more biger just because they've been more succesfully financial.

the difference my uneducated sega freind is that the difference betwen CSK Sega and Segasammy Sega is that they wont splash out on expensive or failed projects anymore when things aren't going well. Platinum only had two successes and a mid success. it wasn't worth paying all that dough to keep them as an exclusive second party . But they weren't the reason sega cut back, they cut back because a lot of games didn't do well. oddly enough platinum titles were the ones that did do well.

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The truth is SEGA has a bit of cash, but the Platnium deal was a horrid deal for SEGA and didn't work out at all

It did work out, or the ANARCHY REIGNS game wouldn't have happened and neither would BAYONETTA 2 deal.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 09:48:17 am by ROJM »

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: Passionate SEGA Discussion Topic for TA & ROJM and anyone else
« Reply #123 on: March 23, 2013, 07:54:42 am »
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sega didn't have any estabilshed sports division until sega sports and then soj only started to concentrate on a sports line during the saturn era.

SEGA Japan had lines that made sport games and that was continued right through SEGA console era. Only in 2004 did it established a dedicated sports Team.

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no just estabilshed ip or ip from estabilshed developers. all new ip  will majorally debut on digita

Not a chance . Every new major AAA game for the home consoles will come out on disc and that not change for years .

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they also needed to fill out their Sega Sports line

? It was just brought out to cash in on the Olympics, and made quite a lot of money in the Arcades and people liked it. Just like with Maxi TT it did well in the Arcades and was ported to the home . I don't really think anyone ever had that as serious effort to be a sports game , even if it had 'SEGA Sports' on it .

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no it wasn't. that's like saying you could play DAYTONA in your local chippie

Plenty of Arcades in the UK had the likes of House the Dead, Manx TT, Daytona USA USA, Gun Blade, Rally on them . Very few ever had Desert Tank in them.

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if soj had no intrest in the add on they wouldn't have bothered releasing it in japan

? The Super 32X was brought out in tiny numbers and was almost like a gesture by SOJ (sort of like Kinect for the 360 in Japan). All of SOJ major and main efforts was put to the Saturn

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And i'm glad you finally admitting sega's  fear over the 3do which soa was trying to market the saturn as its main competitor and that was the REAL mistake

The 3DO came out in 1993  By the time of the Saturn the 3D0 was a total dead duck. Making a super Mega Drive to counter the threat of the Jag and 3D0 might have made sense in 1992/3 but but the middle of 1994 it was clear as day both formats were dead; That's when the 32X should have been scrapped

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They just need to over come their budget and make a profit which VANQUISH did

?. I bet that game had a budget of like 30 million and it never sold enough copies at full price to pay that back. It's why not even Nintendo (with their love of Plat) will publish a sequel

A shame a sequel (ike with BD) could fix the mistakes and turn them in the utter gems .

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1 they didn't make losses at the time you stated, not as big as you were making out

They've mad losses for years and years .

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Just because sega canned a few games and lost money doesn't mean they aren't a bigger company than both konami and capcom

But not enough money to sign up Bay II ?

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But they weren't the reason sega cut back, they cut back because a lot of games didn't do well. oddly enough platinum titles were the ones that did do well.

The real reason is SEGA most of the titles flopped and even the 1 major hit only sold just over a million copies at full retail price . Not good enough and not what SEGA had hopped for .









 
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Offline ROJM

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Re: Passionate SEGA Discussion Topic for TA & ROJM and anyone else
« Reply #124 on: April 03, 2013, 06:59:08 am »
SEGA Japan had lines that made sport games and that was continued right through SEGA console era. Only in 2004 did it established a dedicated sports Team.

No they didn't have dedicated lines to create sports games. You see there was once a period when sports games wasn't the massive sales factor in the video games market as it is now. but you'd have had to play games before the PSX era to know that.
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Not a chance . Every new major AAA game for the home consoles will come out on disc and that not change for years .



Not according to sega.
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? It was just brought out to cash in on the Olympics, and made quite a lot of money in the Arcades and people liked it. Just like with Maxi TT it did well in the Arcades and was ported to the home . I don't really think anyone ever had that as serious effort to be a sports game , even if it had 'SEGA Sports' on it .



MANXTT did ok not well. DEACTHLETE was hardly a hit. it just depends on how much you measure what the arcade buyers wanted to actual retail coinage. Using that argument you might as well say that TIME TRAVELLER was a hit which it technically was but was a flop because the actual people playing it was that high


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Plenty of Arcades in the UK had the likes of House the Dead, Manx TT, Daytona USA USA, Gun Blade, Rally on them . Very few ever had Desert Tank in them.



Wrong. Major arcade chains had DESERT TANK in them because it was the newest in the latest model 2 line. And the arcade operators at that time wanted to cash in on these games because the model 2 games that were released like VF2 and DAYTONA were smash hits with the crowds. people were actually visiting arcads just to look and play at these games, crowds that normally didn't go to the arcades. Thjat's why the order for DT was exceptionally high for the type of game it was.  HOTD MTT all came way after. So get your frigging time period right. But of course you'd have to be playing games at that period to know that DT was released before HOTD. I see someone needs to brush up on their retro mag reading before trying to pass off as knowing it all. Talk about being caught out.

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? The Super 32X was brought out in tiny numbers and was almost like a gesture by SOJ (sort of like Kinect for the 360 in Japan). All of SOJ major and main efforts was put to the Saturn

Dont make me laugh. With the ad campaign they gave it and the fact that they invented the system and MADE the system and then let SOA take the marketing control with a strong budget to boot?! You really are losing the plot. Gesture? what a joke.

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The 3DO came out in 1993  By the time of the Saturn the 3D0 was a total dead duck. Making a super Mega Drive to counter the threat of the Jag and 3D0 might have made sense in 1992/3 but but the middle of 1994 it was clear as day both formats were dead; That's when the 32X should have been scrapped



Not really. They were still advertisng the saturn like a multimedia system and SOA still thought they could succeed where the 3D0 didn't. Why not? Kalinske had done it before with the Sega CD and all the marketing hoopla he gave it. What they didn't contend with and should have known was that the audience wasn't going for multimedia but for what was then called 3D gaming in the form of VF and RR whicvh sony managed to capitilise on and when they realised that it was way too late.

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?. I bet that game had a budget of like 30 million and it never sold enough copies at full price to pay that back. It's why not even Nintendo (with their love of Plat) will publish a sequel

VANQUISH budget didn't come to 30 million. So unless you actually KNOW it cost 30 million and not "bet" that it is i suggest you be quiet on the subject. And as for your second ridiculous question its probably to do with the other games that Platinum is making for nintendo and they want more original IP than ever. BAYONETTA which made the bigger splash is just a tool to draw more people to buy the system and a convient way for sega not to spend much money on a franchise that they are cashing in on.

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A shame a sequel (ike with BD) could fix the mistakes and turn them in the utter gems .

Yes true.
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They've mad losses for years and years .

No they haven't. Get your facts right and frigging read the public reports, do the math and then come back here and actually show where the big losses are.And dont be clever in your words either because you are clearly indicating that sega hasn't made any profit by using the term losses. Sega like any other company can incur losses and still make a profit. It depends on how high the loss is and if the losses are retail releated or R+D releated IE spending on development because of expenses.

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But not enough money to sign up Bay II ?

Not enough to spend money on several games that were canned. They not going to raid their warchest (which is quite healthy under Segasammy)just to create games anymore when the times aren't good unfortunatly, they are spending to how much they make back during any fiscal year and that wasn't a good fiscal year for sega. So the titles suffered.

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The real reason is SEGA most of the titles flopped and even the 1 major hit only sold just over a million copies at full retail price . Not good enough and not what SEGA had hopped for .



No most of the titles didn't flop. One was a great success. one was a moderate hit. One did well in strong sales and two flopped. Stop trying to rewrite history or even dictate on how sega should run things what makes a sega game or what makes a finacial hit when you haven't a clue about it. Like the CONDUIT debate which you claimed flopped when it didn't because it made its budget back from the number of copies sega released towards the market, you have this playstation mentality that every game has to hit a million when it doesn't work like that. every game has to hit its budget back and get a bit of profit after that. The number of copies shipped determines on exactly how much the company expects to see and what percentage they get back from it. Only MW, BAYONETTA and VANQUISH shipped in big numbers and MW was the one that didn't match a good percentage of its number compared to the other two.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 07:13:26 am by ROJM »

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: Passionate SEGA Discussion Topic for TA & ROJM and anyone else
« Reply #125 on: April 18, 2013, 04:10:24 am »
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No they didn't have dedicated lines to create sports games. You see there was once a period when sports games wasn't the massive sales factor in the video games market as it is now

Sports games have been huge sellers and you only have to look at the number of Teams that was making sports games the last 20 years to see that: loads was making sports games in the 16 and 32 bit era's  . All that changed is the market now is dominated by just a few companies . Sports games for a number of years have been massive sellers and big business.

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MANXTT did ok not well. DEACTHLETE was hardly a hit

Decathlete performed great in the Arcades and did very decent in the home console market selling over 150,000 copies and doing very well in the UK charts too . It the main reason the go-ahead for the sequel was granted .

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which it technically was but was a flop because the actual people playing it was that high

Time Traveller broke USA records at the time for a test coin up I seem to remember reading CVG. The game did very well in the Arcades, but it was a Laser Disc game and the unit (like almost all CD based coin ups before GD-Rom) had terrible issues with reliability thanks to the smoke/dust filled Arcades at the time.

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Major arcade chains had DESERT TANK in them because it was the newest in the latest model 2 line

The fact is the game didn't come close to the sales of other Model 2 based coin ups and it was far harder to source the game .

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So get your frigging time period right. But of course you'd have to be playing games at that period to know that DT was released before HOTD.

Nice way to miss the point . If a Arcade games makes money the Arcade operartor will still keep the unit there . That is why even with Rally II and Daytona USA II out, one would no doubt still see Daytona USA, Rally units in the same Arcade.

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With the ad campaign they gave it and the fact that they invented the system and MADE the system

SEGA America developed the final 32X - Not SEGA Japan and SOJ hardly pushed the Super 32X at all when they were all guns blazing for the Saturn in 1994 Toyko show.

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They were still advertisng the saturn like a multimedia system and SOA still thought they could succeed where the 3D0 didn't


It was a game machine , but for sure one would highlight its multi media caps . Just like Sony played on the PS2 DVD or the PS3 bluRay , or the way SEGA Europ pushed the internet side of the DC.  They're all still games machines and that was what they were really developer for .

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VANQUISH budget didn't come to 30 million.

30 Million is the average cost of making a next gen multi platform game .

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that Platinum is making for nintendo and they want more original IP than ever.

Oh Yes Bay II is original IP .

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No they haven't.

SEGA consumer side have made loads of losses over Sammy time . That's a fact .

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No most of the titles didn't flop

Even the head of Platinum have said sales for their games has been disappointing

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However, when it comes to sales, Minami confessed "I'd probably rate it as a C or even a D." Ouch!







 
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Offline Centrale

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Re: Passionate SEGA Discussion Topic for TA & ROJM and anyone else
« Reply #126 on: April 18, 2013, 11:12:48 am »
TA, the term is "coin-op" not "coin up."  It means coin-operated.  Sorry but I see you (and others) type this from time to time.