Author Topic: Adam and Eve...  (Read 55062 times)

Offline Sharky

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2011, 06:36:53 pm »
Again, I don't think the creator of the image meant for it to be taken seriously. It could be a joke image or something, just found it off google.

I wouldn't be all that shocked if the creator did mean it seriously, I've seen some pretty funny arguments for intelligent design/god.

I want to just point out that I've never ruled out intelligent design, I find it highly unlikely but in actual fact if I could choose how it all happened I'd like to believe in intelligent design... Even though I currently find it exceedingly unlikely, it would be a very nice surprise imo.

But as for Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Seeks... etc... Well put it this way, If you believe in one of these gods you have already chosen to disbelieve in all of the other hundreds of religions out there that have come and gone since ancient times... You're basically an atheist in the eyes of everyone who doesn't subscribe to the same religion as you. (Which makes me only one religion more atheist than you!)

So why have you chosen this religion? Because of your surroundings! If you grew up in Saudi Arabia chances are you'd be Muslim, if you grew up in ancient Greece you'd believe in the Greek gods... India, many many gods... Norway in the Saxon era, Viking gods like Odin. It just so happens that you were born in America (presumably) in this time where the most prevalent religion is Christian. In 2000 years it'll be something else.

Some people need to believe in a god, because it gives them guidelines to live by or it comforts people to think they are being watched over and even helps people get over death of loved ones or themselves. If I felt someone needed it I would never ever question it, I would let them believe what ever they want. I'm just voicing my honest opinion of the matter, looking for discussion.
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Offline Autosaver

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2011, 08:02:04 pm »
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In 2000 years it'll be something else.
I don't know, America has dozens of "Christ" references everywhere.

And what would take over Christianity? Christianity is quite strong and has been for over 1000 years. Muslim is close but not that close, and Atheism is quite low in the rankings. I do agree that all religions may fall a bit of percentage points, but I doubt they'll cease to be a majority.

Offline Sharky

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2011, 05:53:26 am »
I don't know, America has dozens of "Christ" references everywhere.

And what would take over Christianity? Christianity is quite strong and has been for over 1000 years. Muslim is close but not that close, and Atheism is quite low in the rankings. I do agree that all religions may fall a bit of percentage points, but I doubt they'll cease to be a majority.

I may be wrong but I'm quite sure that there are more Muslims in the world than there are Christians.

Also, at one time the Roman and Greek gods were 'quite strong' where are they now we have the cheak to call it 'mythology' as if there is more credibility for the current religions.

America will be slow to take up the concept of there not being a god because its so ingrained in every day life there... But in many European countries there is a higher number of athiests then anyone else, people are wising up. In Denmark for example 80% of the population don't believe in a god or follow a religion. Outside of Europe; Japan is the highest place of 'non-believers' at I believe around 60%.

This has shot up in the past 20 years, in a couple of hundred years I see Europe, Japan and probably some other places being pretty much religion free. 2000 years? Things will be massively different.
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Offline CrazyT

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #63 on: July 25, 2011, 09:15:01 am »
I converted to the islam not a long time ago. The religion just seemed very right and pure to me and made a lot of sense. When I have to judge by the quran alone I gotta say that it couldn't have come from anything but something holier, higher than human beings. Basically something or someone that knows as better than anyone in the world.

. The hate towards islam is understandable. Waffle for instance makes good points about not being permitted to build churches in Saudia for instance. Same about not being permitted to visit the place if you are not muslim. But he completely ignores the fact that, apart from those places, churches are built around muslim countries almost everywhere else.

Saudia Arabia is solely built in a way that you wouldn't even wanna be there if you're not muslim. It's not just a holy place for muslims. But theres literally nothing to be found other than religious stuff. I mean compare it to a friend group you wouldn't wanna hang out with in a major scale. It's no place of "tourism" allthough I would like to learn more about this as I do  think it'd be nice for people being able to see how dedicated they are. But then again, the place is holy so I reckon that they want to keep it clean from things muslims consider as non islamic and sinful.

Saudia Arabia is Also controlled by corrupted governmential douchebags. Theres alot of shit going on there that worries a lot of muslims. Most muslims go there just for mecca but other than that the country is ruled by an idiotic moron that doesn't care much about the people, moreso about money. From our perspective, the guy sold his soul to life. It's considered a sin if you value life too much, as it can bring the worst out of people.(greed, ego, arrogance)

Also about the muhamed(pbuh) statement waffle quoted. I never read it myself but then again, I haven't read the sunna(Book written by prophets followers about him). He probably said it, but you also have to realise that that is what we muslims  truly believe what's gonna happen with non believers. It may seem cruel and we humans don't judge you for being a non believer. But we muslims believe when someone gets the message (a clear explenation of the religion) and ignores it, chances are that he may not be forgiven. You're free to find it nonsense and nobody is going to judge you for it.

You know all in all, I still haven't required the knowledge I need to inform anyone about the religion much. But i'd like to share a youtube video that convinced my conversion to islam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYMKQKSV0bY#ws

I hope you can give the video at least 10 minutes. He starts speaking english from 30 seconds in.

Muslims are not synonym to bad people. I think it's mostly the arab culture that's just fucked up. I also wanna not that a muslim believes in the earlier books from god as well. They're just not considered as the perfect books as they've been edited alot.

Religion all began in the middle east. It has had too much of a big impact to be unreal. I mean history fades and the stories probably start to sound surreal with time. But i don't think all the stuff have just come out of nothing from one person that made up a good story that made so much sense for the average and the intelligent people

There is also alot of scientific knowledge to be found in the quran. Stuff that hadn't been discovered back in the days were already stated in the almost 1500 year old quran. Things like the world being round like a ball and how the proces goes of a birth of a child. If you do a bit of research about islam and why people become muslim, it may convince you.

Sadly the islam has got to fight alot against made up stories and douchebags  giving the islam a bad name. It's especially noticable in the US with it's brainwashing media/government.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 09:46:06 am by CrazyTails »

Offline George

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2011, 10:21:02 am »
That Atheism picture is a 4chan troll picture, I hope you guys know.

Offline Ben

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #65 on: July 25, 2011, 01:30:16 pm »
Sharky: the current worldwide totals for some of the more iconic ones are as follows;

Christianity: 2.2 billion followers
Muslim: 1.2-1.57 billion followers
Hinduism (Confirmed 3rd largest religion, no numbers that I could find)
Buddhism: Anywhere from 230 million-1.6 billion followers (huge estimation, lots of gray area)
Judaism: 13.4 million


Anyway, hopefully the recent mass murder of 90 people in Norway by a Christian seeking to rid the world of Islam will stop people like Waffle from feeling like religious extremism is isolated to one particular religion....but I doubt some people will ever change their views.

Edit: And no, I'm not Muslim or Christian.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 01:30:23 am by -nSega54- »

Offline Sharky

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #66 on: July 25, 2011, 01:38:24 pm »
@Crazy Tails

I watched 20 minuites of the video so far and I have some bad news, it isnt just the bible that has some really dodgey shit in it... trust me the quran has a ton of it too.

edit:

I've watched more,
This is a man who cannot live with out following something, he was christian but he studied it and found its errors... So in his own words he left Christianity and started looking for a new faith and he went with the one he personally found the least plot holes in.

His story is a nice one, but thats all it is... Nothing here convinces me there is a god, he was already convinced there was a god... All he is talking about is which one he finds the most pleasing to read...

« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 02:38:11 pm by Sharky »
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Offline CrazyT

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #67 on: July 25, 2011, 03:19:47 pm »
Ah well at least thanks for watching it. I was a christian too so maybe  that's how it was easier for me to grasp. I don't think it's nesceseraly that he cannot live without following something. I guess some people just find logical sense in the world being created by something and a credible source (in his opinion) that encourages it.

The quran is full of scientific knowledge even before non muslim scientists found out with evolved technoligy. There is a lot of stuff in the quran that astonished me personally. It convinced me to be more open minded about the other things which I found weird at first (still do about some things, but I really feel like I gotta know more) but a good friend always tries his best to eleborate but he himself isn't very knowledgable either.



 





Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2011, 03:39:40 pm »
I've always loved Douglas Adams "Is there an Artificial God?" speech. Perfectly explains the invention of God, among other things.

Full speech: http://www.biota.org/people/douglasadams/

Excerpt:
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Where does the idea of God come from? Well, I think we have a very skewed point of view on an awful lot of things, but let's try and see where our point of view comes from. Imagine early man. Early man is, like everything else, an evolved creature and he finds himself in a world that he's begun to take a little charge of; he's begun to be a tool-maker, a changer of his environment with the tools that he's made and he makes tools, when he does, in order to make changes in his environment. To give an example of the way man operates compared to other animals, consider speciation, which, as we know, tends to occur when a small group of animals gets separated from the rest of the herd by some geological upheaval, population pressure, food shortage or whatever and finds itself in a new environment with maybe something different going on.

Take a very simple example; maybe a bunch of animals suddenly finds itself in a place where the weather is rather colder. We know that in a few generations those genes which favour a thicker coat will have come to the fore and we'll come and we'll find that the animals have now got thicker coats. Early man, who's a tool maker, doesn't have to do this: he can inhabit an extraordinarily wide range of habitats on earth, from tundra to the Gobi Desert - he even manages to live in New York for heaven's sake - and the reason is that when he arrives in a new environment he doesn't have to wait for several generations; if he arrives in a colder environment and sees an animal that has those genes which favour a thicker coat, he says “I'll have it off him”. Tools have enabled us to think intentionally, to make things and to do things to create a world that fits us better. Now imagine an early man surveying his surroundings at the end of a happy day's tool making. He looks around and he sees a world which pleases him mightily: behind him are mountains with caves in - mountains are great because you can go and hide in the caves and you are out of the rain and the bears can't get you; in front of him there's the forest - it's got nuts and berries and delicious food; there's a stream going by, which is full of water - water's delicious to drink, you can float your boats in it and do all sorts of stuff with it; here's cousin Ug and he's caught a mammoth - mammoth's are great, you can eat them, you can wear their coats, you can use their bones to create weapons to catch other mammoths. I mean this is a great world, it's fantastic.

But our early man has a moment to reflect and he thinks to himself, 'well, this is an interesting world that I find myself in' and then he asks himself a very treacherous question, a question which is totally meaningless and fallacious, but only comes about because of the nature of the sort of person he is, the sort of person he has evolved into and the sort of person who has thrived because he thinks this particular way. Man the maker looks at his world and says 'So who made this then?' Who made this? - you can see why it's a treacherous question. Early man thinks, 'Well, because there's only one sort of being I know about who makes things, whoever made all this must therefore be a much bigger, much more powerful and necessarily invisible, one of me and because I tend to be the strong one who does all the stuff, he's probably male'. And so we have the idea of a god. Then, because when we make things we do it with the intention of doing something with them, early man asks himself , 'If he made it, what did he make it for?' Now the real trap springs, because early man is thinking, 'This world fits me very well. Here are all these things that support me and feed me and look after me; yes, this world fits me nicely' and he reaches the inescapable conclusion that whoever made it, made it for him.

Offline Sharky

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2011, 04:03:49 pm »
I understand, there are some good moral stories in the Quran and even the Bible, they are really kind of like guide lines to live your life by after all, although very out dated and often really dodgy stuff like stoning people and other over blown punishments for petty crimes.

I think the fact that this man in the video felt he couldn't trust the Bible because Noah was an alcoholic and not because the Ark story is... Well... 100% impossible was a bit suspect and made me question his sanity a bit, lol.

I see a lot of bickering over which religion is the correct one not to mention killing over it… With lots of people caught up in those finer details and nobody actually wondering if any of it is real at all. I’m the kind of person that needs to see proof of something before I believe it or scientific evidence. ‘Having Faith’ simply does not cut it for me. You can have faith in any religion and most probably tell you to do because there is no evidence of their god/gods.

I watched the entire video btw; I don't like to be someone that argues any case with out doing full research on the counter argument... I see it far too often in religious people who simply will not listen to the other side of the argument or give it a chance, if I didn't study the counter argument I'd be just as bad as they are but arguing for the other side.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2011, 04:23:17 pm »
I've always loved Douglas Adams "Is there an Artificial God?" speech. Perfectly explains the invention of God, among other things.

Full speech: http://www.biota.org/people/douglasadams/

Excerpt:

Absolute genius btw.
If I would be so BOLD as to try and expand on what Adams was saying,

The primitive man has created his own perfect world (as good as it gets for a cave man anyway), he is the only creature that can use tools and ask difficult questions. He basically blows his own mind and doesn't realize that HE is pretty much god of his surroundings, he has used his own potential to make his world perfect for him, not some higher power.

A 'God' was drempt up with the first use of abstract thought in early humans, before humans were smart enough to ask difficult questions about their world and nobody was around to dream up a god, there was no religion and there fore no God and no worshipers, just savage animals on an imperfect planet.

Then as people got a bit smarter they realized you can control people that fear a greater power, you tell them that they have to live this way and if they don’t the great JuJu in the sky will make their crops fail and cast lighting magic on their face and make their wives ugly. People suddenly start doing what they think god wants from them.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 04:26:04 pm by Sharky »
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Offline Autosaver

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #71 on: July 29, 2011, 07:11:44 pm »
I may be wrong but I'm quite sure that there are more Muslims in the world than there are Christians.

Also, at one time the Roman and Greek gods were 'quite strong' where are they now we have the cheak to call it 'mythology' as if there is more credibility for the current religions.

America will be slow to take up the concept of there not being a god because its so ingrained in every day life there... But in many European countries there is a higher number of athiests then anyone else, people are wising up. In Denmark for example 80% of the population don't believe in a god or follow a religion. Outside of Europe; Japan is the highest place of 'non-believers' at I believe around 60%.

This has shot up in the past 20 years, in a couple of hundred years I see Europe, Japan and probably some other places being pretty much religion free. 2000 years? Things will be massively different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups
Islam is less.

Greek Gods are different, aren't they? Do they even have their own books and stuff implying they exist? (Bible for example)

I don't get how people explain how the Bible is fake. It IS a pretty long book and I doubt someone would write about fairy tails for years.

Offline Waffle

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #72 on: July 29, 2011, 08:29:31 pm »
Responding to those who mentioned me:

It mainly seems like Waffle is the one getting hyper, everybody else has been ok, I think.

Hyper? Standing outside a church and whacking ping pong balls at it seems a bit more advanced in hostility to me. I was just pointing out how I felt about a particular religion and how it feels about me. Since it existed before I did, I can safely say ‘they started it’.

America is not Saudi Arabia.....America is a country that prides itself on being a free country and a country tolerant of different religious faiths. Saudi Arabia does not.

America is not Saudi Arabia, and be thankful for that.

Cool that. Too bad I am not American. The post I responded to was not even an American example. If you want a mosque next door then go ahead and build it, I do not care. Just keep it in America and Saudi Arabia.

While you are at it, maybe remove all your AMERICA FREEDOM BASES from my country? Even Muslims would appreciate that, I bet!

Anyway, hopefully the recent mass murder of 90 people in Norway by a Christian seeking to rid the world of Islam will stop people like Waffle from feeling like religious extremism is isolated to one particular religion....but I doubt some people will ever change their views.

Actually he attacked the Norwegian Labour Party for being Marxist. It was a political attack, not a religious one. I am aware he was Christian and disliked Muslims, but it was not the core reason for his actions. Additionally I am not even a Christian, so it has nothing to do with me.

The quran is full of scientific knowledge even before non muslim scientists found out with evolved technoligy. There is a lot of stuff in the quran that astonished me personally. It convinced me to be more open minded about the other things which I found weird at first (still do about some things, but I really feel like I gotta know more) but a good friend always tries his best to eleborate but he himself isn't very knowledgable either.

While I have yet to read the Quran (and I intend to), I have a hard time believing this. Most of what I have studied in early/medieval Islamic scientific advances has been plagiarism. A lot of it is Persian, Greek, and Roman science that was taken from regions invaded (probably most notably the whole of Persia). To say Muslims figured this out is plain wrong, others did previously.

One Muslim claim I see a lot is that Muslims created the Renaissance in Europe, due to a significant source being Moorish Iberia (occupied by Muslims, mostly converted Berber peoples). People leave out the part where almost all of it, if I recall correctly, was from Greeks like Aristotle who died long before Islam ever existed. I give full credit to the Greeks, Romans, and pre-Islamic Middle Easterners.

Muslims also try hard to hide it, declaring it illegal and a death sentence to say Islam is hierarchical to anything prior. Imams actually accuse people of this to have them murdered, and then claim the murderer goes directly to heaven. What a cowardly way to cover things up. If you want an example of this, check out your magic space rock in Mecca. Pre-Islamic Arabs were worshipping that prior to Islam. It is not a gift from Allah. It is a stolen relic that actually has no spiritual meaning.

To get back to science here, another stolen concept that is easy to identify is 'Arabic numerals'. Muslims claim to be grand mathematicians here, yet it was the Hindus who created this. Muslim Arabs simply stole it and shoved their name on it.

In case anyone thinks this is an attack on Arabs, non-Islamic Arabs are just as much victims in these regards. The Pagan Arabs were all murdered, raped, and enslaved by Muslims, along with any Pagan anywhere else where Islam spread. Persia, as I mentioned, had entire cities massacred by invading Muslims. Apparently stealing all their ideas and knowledge was not enough, Persins had to be exterminated as well in their own homeland. Today barely anyone in Persia is an ancient Persia. The same goes for Egypt (Coptics are the Egyptians and they all live in ghettos, Arabic Muslims are colonialists).

Everything in Islam is based upon the work of others. Beyond science, even architecture is taken. The columns, arches, and domes of a Mosque are practically all Roman. Saudi Arabia even still uses Roman roads today. Without oil and propaganda, Muslims truly have nothing. They ruined what used to be the centre of human civilisation and what was previously known as ‘the fertile crescent’ – turning it into a massive, desolate desert today. The Tigris River was named after tigers, for instance, and it used to be lush and fertile in pre-Islamic times. Today it is filled with foreign Muslims and practically a deforested wasteland of infighting and environmental rot.

The original Babylonians, like Persians and many Greeks, have had everything stolen and destroyed, and they are now a minority in Babylonia. Many are expelled to other countries today (usually they are listed as Christian refugees, but these are the remains of the indigenous people driven out by Muslims). Assyrians are another close example of people robbed of their knowledge and scattered from their homes.

Maybe you can see why non-Islamic nations might have a problem with Muslims showing up? I could keep going on all day about how many people have been exterminated and displaced by Islam. I guess I should throw in the original people of Anatolia too who exterminated by Turks. It used to be Greek and Armenian, but not today. They are even still doing it in Cyprus where recently ancient Churches and Synagogues have been destroyed by Muslim invaders. The people living there cannot even visit half of their own island. Again another example of Islamic intolerance for others.

And perhaps you could explain to everyone the Islamic head tax placed on non-Muslims under Shari Law? I am sure they would be delighted to know what it is.

. The hate towards islam is understandable. Waffle for instance makes good points about not being permitted to build churches in Saudia for instance. Same about not being permitted to visit the place if you are not muslim. But he completely ignores the fact that, apart from those places, churches are built around muslim countries almost everywhere else.

Untrue. Check my Cyprus example. In Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Turkey I can also easily think of examples of non-Muslims being attacked regularly. Shia Muslim in Iran constantly attack Zoroastrianists, with the government having recently bulldozed one of their grave yards that was still in use. In Saudi Arabia and surrounding countries – along with Pakistan – priests are generally murdered. And in Egypt the foreign Muslims continuously attack the Coptic Catholics, not allowing them religious freedom in their native land. Buddhism also used to be in Afghanistan, but they too were exterminated. Only a few decades ago a giant, ancient statue of Buddha in a mountain was destroyed in Afghanistan, destroying an irreplaceable relic and work of art, all because it was not Islamic. And inner-Muslim hatred is strong as well, as seen in Iraq between Sunnis and Shia, around Saudi Arabia, in Pakistan, and in Turkey (try being a Kurd there, or in Iraq). In Palestine the Muslims also abuse their own people if they are Christian. Arabs have their houses set on fire by other Islamic Arabs simply due to the fact that they are not Muslims.

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Saudia Arabia is solely built in a way that you wouldn't even wanna be there if you're not muslim. It's not just a holy place for muslims. But theres literally nothing to be found other than religious stuff. I mean compare it to a friend group you wouldn't wanna hang out with in a major scale. It's no place of "tourism" allthough I would like to learn more about this as I do  think it'd be nice for people being able to see how dedicated they are. But then again, the place is holy so I reckon that they want to keep it clean from things muslims consider as non islamic and sinful.

This is actually a good post. Europe too is built this way, as is India, as is North Africa, as is the Levant, as is Anatolia, as is North America, as is Africa, and so on. The expectation being that it is the reverse. So Hindus, Buddhists, and Sikhs in India, for example.

Apparently Muslims cannot give other people the respect they expect for themselves. Everywhere has to be for Muslims, but no non-Muslims around them. And if so, they have to be slaves or an underclass.

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Saudia Arabia is Also controlled by corrupted governmential douchebags. Theres alot of shit going on there that worries a lot of muslims. Most muslims go there just for mecca but other than that the country is ruled by an idiotic moron that doesn't care much about the people, moreso about money. From our perspective, the guy sold his soul to life. It's considered a sin if you value life too much, as it can bring the worst out of people.(greed, ego, arrogance)

Mecca.. you mean that city created by non-Muslims who were then slaughtered by Muslims with everything they owned stolen?

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Also about the muhamed(pbuh) statement waffle quoted. I never read it myself but then again, I haven't read the sunna(Book written by prophets followers about him). He probably said it, but you also have to realise that that is what we muslims  truly believe what's gonna happen with non believers. It may seem cruel and we humans don't judge you for being a non believer. But we muslims believe when someone gets the message (a clear explenation of the religion) and ignores it, chances are that he may not be forgiven. You're free to find it nonsense and nobody is going to judge you for it.

Thanks for being honest!

I frequently get attacked whenever I quote Muhammad, usually by non-Muslims who think I am lying. I even see court cases of people being jailed for making quotes. I remember one of an Austrian being legally attacked because she called Muhammad a paedophile, despite the fact that he had a 9 year old wife.

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Religion all began in the middle east. It has had too much of a big impact to be unreal. I mean history fades and the stories probably start to sound surreal with time. But i don't think all the stuff have just come out of nothing from one person that made up a good story that made so much sense for the average and the intelligent people

No it did not. Abrahamic religion began in the Middle East (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). Other religions long outdate them, especially the latter two. Hinduism is older than Judaism, for example.

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There is also alot of scientific knowledge to be found in the quran. Stuff that hadn't been discovered back in the days were already stated in the almost 1500 year old quran. Things like the world being round like a ball and how the proces goes of a birth of a child. If you do a bit of research about islam and why people become muslim, it may convince you.

Haha, no. Greeks accurately measured the earth as round over a thousand years before Islam existed. Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes#Eratosthenes.27_measurement_of_the_Earth.27s_circumference

And this is just the measurement, it was theorised hundreds of years before he was born. One example people thought of is why they could see different stars in Europe compared to Egypt. It is not as complex as you make this appear, though that measurement surely was.

Maybe you should consider rejecting Islam instead of others considering a conversion. Europe and the Middle East were far more advanced in ancient times than you seem to think. Islam and Christianity are a plague when it comes to science.


And on a personal note, I want to restate that I do eventually plan to read the Quran, or at least listen to it. So if you want, suggest me a translation or an audio book of it. And in case anyone is wondering: no, I am not a Christian. Religiously I followed pre-Christian British religions of Celts and Germans, and I am not spiritual.

Offline Sharky

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #73 on: July 30, 2011, 06:40:12 am »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups
Islam is less.

Greek Gods are different, aren't they? Do they even have their own books and stuff implying they exist? (Bible for example)

I don't get how people explain how the Bible is fake. It IS a pretty long book and I doubt someone would write about fairy tails for years.



I'm not sure how Greek gods or any gods are different, they had temples and they had there own scriptures and beliefs. Back then it was often written on stone tablets and if there were books I suspect they are long gone. The only difference is that it's a dead religion now.

As for people writing fairy tales... have you SEEN the amount of lore in Lord of the Rings or Star Wars? They eclipse the bible...
But on a serious note, the people writing these books didn't think they were making up fairy tales. Some of them might, it's hard to tell since they are written by lots of different people sometimes hundreds of years apart.

Read the bible or the quran or in fact any holy book and you'll find a lot of it is just babble about out dated law and punishment which seems totally unfair and stupid by today’s standards, stories that cannot possible have happened like ‘Adam and Eve’ or ‘Noah’s Ark’ and a lot of 'god is great'... It's not the most complex thing ever written.
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Offline Waffle

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Re: Adam and Eve...
« Reply #74 on: July 30, 2011, 05:23:29 pm »
There is a significant difference between following a rotted old book in comparison to having the ability to progress ideas and traditions. Compare Christian Greece to pre-Christian Greece. Look at what was accomplished.

The only positive trait I can see in holy books are their function of allowing people to read, and unifying people through language. Martin Luther, for example, unified Germany due to his translation of the Bible into German. It gave Germans a common language and the ability to read/write (in mass). Prior only the priest class would be able to read/write, thus they controlled society (due to their ability to read/write Latin, as the Bible was written in at the time). I would assume Arabic served the same function with the Quran, although that is an unfortunate example of a foreign language being forced upon non-Arabic peoples outside Arabia (Islam teaches that Arabic is a holy language, Muslims must worship Mecca, and that Arabs are racially superior - though different sects have altered this somewhat). Despite these examples, literacy truly had nothing to do with religion itself. Literacy can be spread through other means, as is apparent today. I could equally praise the printing press for having accomplished this, and that obviously has nothing to do with religion.

Also to say that all 'Gods' are the same seems rather ignorant. No, they are not. Otherwise they would not differ, would they? And no, Greek religion is not dead.

It is a mistake when people think of comparing religions through simply thinking about the similarities of Abrahamic religions, which all share the same 'God', structure, creators, origins, and texts. Other religions differ vastly and many have no holy book that keeps them stuck in a specific era. The mention of 'fairy tales' are again like I posted about before, simply Jewish folk stories. Why Christians and Muslims pay attention to them I cannot understand, they are specific to Jews and no one else. If anything they help highlight how alien Christianity and Islam are outside of a tiny portion of the world.