Author Topic: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..  (Read 12257 times)

Offline Nirmugen

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So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« on: September 25, 2014, 08:50:06 pm »
Well, that was a surprise:
http://sega-net.com/release/140925_6964.html



Sega Networks, Fuji TV and a company named Goopa are working together to launch a crowdfunding business named "Crowdrive" that will begin operation in late October.


It will focus on funding Anime stuff from the beginning but they will launch a service for videogames in May next year.


Probably, the full funded anime could be transmitted in some program of Fuji TV and the games could be co-published by Sega.


That's a good move for the future and reveals the "all digital" plan that Sega is planning to make. Seems like Sega could potentially become more powerful that before. Keep the eye open for more news. Anyway, what is your opinion about this?

Offline JRcade19

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2014, 09:09:55 pm »
Not sure I feel comfortable with the idea of some corps setting up a Crowdfunding platform.

I need to know how the IP rights work in this case. If Projects are successfully funded, then in Sega's case, they should be doing nothing more than Q&A and distribution. If Sega even tries to claim ownership of the IP, I don't see this taking off at all.

Offline Nirmugen

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2014, 09:23:38 pm »

Sega has distribution contracts with many independent japanese developers and also distributes some Codemasters and EA games in Japan.


I think there will be no problems with the IPs.

Offline JRcade19

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2014, 09:30:22 pm »
EA and Codemasters are fairly large companies with lawyers, trademarks, existing IP ect...

Something that almost no crowdfunding project can claim. If Sega just distributes the game after funding as has been done for several kickstarters(Wasteland 2 and Deep silver) then there isn't much to worry about.

What I have to be convinced about is if Sega is just using this to farm new IP that they may try to eventually lock up without the initial investment.

Not 100% saying they will, but it never hurts to ask.

Offline ROJM

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2014, 05:55:15 am »
Sega has distribution contracts with many independent japanese developers and also distributes some Codemasters and EA games in Japan.


I think there will be no problems with the IPs.



There won't be a problem with IPs. Many people fund properties that some one else or a company owns all the time. There is no different here. The difference is instead of asking the banks  or shareholders for money, they are asking the fans. But in order to work it will most likely have to be projects that are already established.
Their current business model is minimal costs in order to get big returns. We have seen it with Sega passing the funding to Nintendo for BAY2, Sega making mobile games for next to nothing and getting huge returns...Medium budget games for release on handhelds etc etc. They're trying to make a game with as little costs to them as possible...which may not be a great thing in the long run. The question is on the video game side is whether certain titles that fans want made like SHENMUE will become part of the scheme or not. The fact that they're employing this route will bring out the SHENMUE brigade out anyway.

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2014, 09:27:10 am »
This is kind of interesting, I wonder how the rewards etc will work to entice fans to invest?


The idea of a big company doing something like this is really interesting as it gives an avenue to publish those titles that they usually wouldn't touch due due to risk. As Joe mentioned, the first thing I thought of was Shenmue 3, if they could get fans to put up the money in advance, Sega already owns the rights to the game it could potentially work? Even if the game bombs, if a majority of the funding came from crowd funding it wouldn't be as big a risk to Sega.


I wonder if people will get behind the idea of funding for a corporation who can clearly fund their own games though? There was already a back-lash for Shaq Fu 2 because "SHAQ IS RICH, HE CAN PAY FOR THIS ON HIS OWN".

Offline ROJM

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2014, 09:40:07 am »
This is kind of interesting, I wonder how the rewards etc will work to entice fans to invest?


The idea of a big company doing something like this is really interesting as it gives an avenue to publish those titles that they usually wouldn't touch due due to risk. As Joe mentioned, the first thing I thought of was Shenmue 3, if they could get fans to put up the money in advance, Sega already owns the rights to the game it could potentially work? Even if the game bombs, if a majority of the funding came from crowd funding it wouldn't be as big a risk to Sega.


I wonder if people will get behind the idea of funding for a corporation who can clearly fund their own games though? There was already a back-lash for Shaq Fu 2 because "SHAQ IS RICH, HE CAN PAY FOR THIS ON HIS OWN".

The only way SHENMUE 3 can work is if Suzuki is involved and that his company is the one taking the lead of development. But yes it is uncomfortable to see Sega who can afford to make twelve Shenmue's now let alone one go with this option. But if they are most of these projects always have some trade to entice the fans...you can meet Suzuki..you can tour Sega offices and what not.
The anime thing may work..its when it comes to video games that's the question. And another factor is like with everything else...this seems to be japan focused and not world focused...IE the west may not even get a chance to really fully participate. I doubt we will see this att he Sega .com website when they launch the game part of this or the games that would interest western sega fans.
But if Sega is successful in this no doubt everyone else will try to follow their lead.

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2014, 09:42:00 am »
The only way SHENMUE 3 can work is if Suzuki is involved and that his company is the one taking the lead of development.
Do you mean in terms of quality or legality? I thought Sega owns all the rights and IP and can do whatever the hell they want with it, regardless of Yu Suzuki's input.

If you mean quality, then yes, everyone would want his involvement in the game. I wonder if he'd even want to do it at this point in his life/career?

Offline JRcade19

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2014, 09:43:54 am »
I wonder if people will get behind the idea of funding for a corporation who can clearly fund their own games though?

This has been asked many different times around many different places, the answers always being a resounding no. Logic being that backers shouldn't reward risk-averse companies, adding the fact that these companies can easily fund their own games.

Lord British had trouble funding Shroud of the avatar because everyone new he was a multi millionaire. Until he came out and explained of his own personal investment with regards to money and time already.

Now....If Sega were to give Shenmue as an IP to Suzuki, and have him kickstart it independent of Sega, and say simply claim first dibs on publishing, then people will be throwing money at the screen in droves.

Most people donate to kickstarter precisely because the companies they're backing are responsible to THEM as backers and not to shareholders like a corporation is.

Offline Centrale

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2014, 10:32:23 am »
Most people donate to kickstarter precisely because the companies they're backing are responsible to THEM as backers and not to shareholders like a corporation is.

People may donate to Kickstarters for that reason, but it's a misconception. The only responsibility a Kickstarter project has to its backers is to come through with whatever trinkets they promised at different donation tiers. The backers have made a donation, not an investment. Publicly held companies, on the other hand, do have a responsibility to listen to the wishes of the shareholders and try to generate a return on their investment.

Offline ROJM

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2014, 10:34:11 am »
Do you mean in terms of quality or legality? I thought Sega owns all the rights and IP and can do whatever the hell they want with it, regardless of Yu Suzuki's input.

If you mean quality, then yes, everyone would want his involvement in the game. I wonder if he'd even want to do it at this point in his life/career?

In terms of people funding the game. How many people would fund Sega to make SHENMUE as opposed to Suzuki and his small company to fund it? The corporation or the little guy? Also the more i think of it the more i think this may be where they were going for a while now. Didn't Suzuku hinted at crowd funding SHENMUE at one point and now lo and behold Sega is setting up their own crowdfunding company? I dunno if that's a large coincidence....

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2014, 10:51:02 am »
In terms of people funding the game. How many people would fund Sega to make SHENMUE as opposed to Suzuki and his small company to fund it? The corporation or the little guy? Also the more i think of it the more i think this may be where they were going for a while now. Didn't Suzuku hinted at crowd funding SHENMUE at one point and now lo and behold Sega is setting up their own crowdfunding company? I dunno if that's a large coincidence....

He did mention it, I believe it was after a lot of fans were asking him about the possibility. I don't know if it's related or just a logical potential solution.

I can agree with what you mean, people would be reluctant to give Sega money to make it, but also I think most fans are probably of the mindset that if it's not Yu Suzuki it's not Shenmue.

I would donate either way, depending on what the reward for doing so would be.

Offline ROJM

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2014, 11:24:23 am »
He did mention it, I believe it was after a lot of fans were asking him about the possibility. I don't know if it's related or just a logical potential solution.

I can agree with what you mean, people would be reluctant to give Sega money to make it, but also I think most fans are probably of the mindset that if it's not Yu Suzuki it's not Shenmue.

I would donate either way, depending on what the reward for doing so would be.

I wouldn't for two reasons. Sega has the money to make SHENMUE. They just don't have the will. That's always ben the problem with SOJ management. A lack of leadership. I'm not putting ANY money towards a game that they should be doing themselves. What they are asking for is "hey guys.. were a company that makes billions of yen but don't want to spend the money. So can you not only fund the game so we can make it but also buy the game when its released. That way we will make money on a game we didn't have to put our own resources into it. Thanks."
And then think about the merchandise. Japanese games and merchandise are synominus nowadays. A crowd funded game which becomes a hit, will not only line up their pockets but any licensing and merchandise they make off of it. I've already invested my money into sega and they're going too much in a direction i didn't want them to go in which is why i took most of my own money out by selling those shares except the one i didn't own orginally. I'm not paying money on top of that for something they should do themselves.
Either way i'll still get paid whether they do it or not. And that's what you guys need to think about. Giving you're money to a billion dollar company to fund a game that could do well on the market and end up being a payday for the board and shareholders.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 11:26:17 am by ROJM »

Offline JRcade19

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2014, 11:39:15 am »
I wouldn't for two reasons. Sega has the money to make SHENMUE. They just don't have the will. That's always ben the problem with SOJ management. A lack of leadership. I'm not putting ANY money towards a game that they should be doing themselves. What they are asking for is "hey guys.. were a company that makes billions of yen but don't want to spend the money. So can you not only fund the game so we can make it but also buy the game when its released. That way we will make money on a game we didn't have to put our own resources into it. Thanks."
I'm not paying money on top of that for something they should do themselves.
Either way i'll still get paid whether they do it or not. And that's what you guys need to think about. Giving you're money to a billion dollar company to fund a game that could do well on the market and end up being a payday for the board and shareholders.

For once we agree one something. Well said ROJM.

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: So, Sega Japan starts to invest in the crowdfunding business..
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2014, 11:44:59 am »
I wouldn't for two reasons. Sega has the money to make SHENMUE. They just don't have the will. That's always ben the problem with SOJ management. A lack of leadership. I'm not putting ANY money towards a game that they should be doing themselves. What they are asking for is "hey guys.. were a company that makes billions of yen but don't want to spend the money. So can you not only fund the game so we can make it but also buy the game when its released. That way we will make money on a game we didn't have to put our own resources into it. Thanks."
And then think about the merchandise. Japanese games and merchandise are synominus nowadays. A crowd funded game which becomes a hit, will not only line up their pockets but any licensing and merchandise they make off of it. I've already invested my money into sega and they're going too much in a direction i didn't want them to go in which is why i took most of my own money out by selling those shares except the one i didn't own orginally. I'm not paying money on top of that for something they should do themselves.
Either way i'll still get paid whether they do it or not. And that's what you guys need to think about. Giving you're money to a billion dollar company to fund a game that could do well on the market and end up being a payday for the board and shareholders.
See that's why the rewards matter.

I've only ever funded one thing in this manner and that was Broken Age. I backed it for $100AUD I believe, which gets me a digital copy of the game, a limited boxed copy of the game and a T-shirt. That's basically a collector's edition for the price of a collector's edition in Australia (It also gives me a box set of the making of I believe, and a lot of non-tangible bonuses like access to betas and behind the scenes stuff as it comes available).

If Sega asked for funding, almost certainly any donation that comes close to the price of a game would mean that you get a copy of the game on release. In that way I see it as more of a 'pre-order' and you're putting your faith in the development team to make it good. I would only do that for select developers, but if it was Shenmue I would take the risk.

In that way I don't see it so much as a slight to fans, it's basically 'Hey, you said you would buy this game, here's your opportunity to do a very advanced pre-order to fund it, because it's the only way we'll take the risk'.


As for the possibility of making money elsewhere etc, people who back crowdfunded endeavours are not investors. They should not expect anything other than what they are promised as a reward. You put down $100 for a Copy of the game and a poster, that is all you are entitled to, and I don't know why anyone would be expecting more than that. If they don't deliver I believe you are legally enabled to demand your money back.


I can understand the principle of 'Sega has the money to do this themselves' but realistically, they never will. They wont do anything with the franchise, apart from sit on the IP rights and not let anyone else touch it. It's too big a risk and too big an investment. If the fans want it, they should be willing to buy a copy of the game via pre-order.


I guess in a way it's similar to Bayo 2. Sega could have funded that game, but they didn't. Instead of Nintendo stepping in to fund it, the fans could. Wouldn't you rather have a fan-funded game than none at all?