Defining Sega games.

[ROJM]

Capcom did SF II on the MD right down the the poor audio samples . Strider and the likes of Final Fight I give credit to SEGA for a stunning ports , but they're still Cacpom games. No different from Sumo stunning ports of Outrun II and 2006, but they're still AM#2 developed games in the end .

And yes Sammy is fast but killing the old SEGA these days 

You've been saying that form the very beginning. I'm not happy with what's been happening but i can't criticize Sammy too much  since they did bankroll several Sega projects that we like. I'll criticize what they are responsible for but not because the fact on who they are. I also blame Sega japan management. The big cull of 2012 was by far my last straw with them. Anyhow i'm much happier now that i'm not that involved with Sega anymore shares wise. 

As for SF. That was Sega not Capcom, Capcom didn't have a license to make games for Sega when that was made for it. And the point was that game used the MD really well because its the best version of SF2 on console. 

[Team Andromeda]

As for SF. That was Sega not Capcom, Capcom didn't have a license to make games for Sega when that was made for it. And the point was that game used the MD really well because its the best version of SF2 on console.

SF II was Capcom's work just like it was for the PC-Eng version .

but i can't criticize Sammy too much  since they did bankroll several Sega projects that we like. I'll criticize what they are responsible for but not because the fact on who they are

Sammy seemed to be ok at the start, but now they're fast killing SEGA. SEGA New Arcade boards are cheap and nasty , Sammy slashed SEGA R&D spends and its shows and way they treated Yu Suzuki a utter disgrace. The creative side of SEGA has all but been killed . 

[Nirmugen]

What are you talking about? BAYONETTA was a success.

Yes....in 2010..9 weeks after the release of the game (end of 2009) with a lower price and far apart from the holiday season, the most important time for releasing a game. That doesn't mean that the game didn't do anything good,: over 2 million copies it's a good mark but Sega didn't reinvest all the production costs because of the lower price system. So, the sequel take another route without Sega money.

[CrazyT]

You know this may sound very disconnected from the things i've said previously. Also not very correct. But the way I see it is that SEGA games are defined by a distinct/specific identity. Something we have lost nowadays so really I feel like I havent played an actual SEGA game in a long time. I get that a company should do new and different things eventually, but SEGA has gone to the point in which their identity is all lost.

[ROJM]

Yes....in 2010..9 weeks after the release of the game (end of 2009) with a lower price and far apart from the holiday season, the most important time for releasing a game. That doesn't mean that the game didn't do anything good,: over 2 million copies it's a good mark but Sega didn't reinvest all the production costs because of the lower price system. So, the sequel take another route without Sega money.

No it wasn't. Check you're facts before you comment on something please. BAYONETTA sold that amount full price not at half price. And that number was actually for the japan region. The other Platinum games was down to moderate sales versus the budget. VANQUISH for example sold well. But needed a specific number. If Sega wanted a sequel they would want it for a cheaper contract which is what was real sticking point. 

[ROJM]

SF II was Capcom's work just like it was for the PC-Eng version .

No it wasn't. Its a reprogrammed game as credited on the box.

Sammy seemed to be ok at the start, but now they're fast killing SEGA. SEGA New Arcade boards are cheap and nasty , Sammy slashed SEGA R&D spends and its shows and way they treated Yu Suzuki a utter disgrace. The creative side of SEGA has all but been killed . 

They were ok at the start but you or  to be fair more than others seemed to criticize them from day one. you criticized them halfway thru. The fears that people had about Sammy is happening now but it surely wasn't happening 4 years ago. But their excuse is that they have backed Sega to the hilt and didn't get great returns. I can't argue with that because part of that is true.Even if Sammy weren't around i think you still have problems. The point is that these arcade boards are the only option at the moment considering the type of arcade boards sega has been making in the last decade. But i doubt that the big gun games like another VF for example will use that board anyhow.

[Team Andromeda]

No it wasn't. Its a reprogrammed game as credited on the box.

It says no such thing.

to be fair more than others seemed to criticize them from day one. you criticized them halfway thru

I was ready to give Sammy the benefit of the doubt , but very early in, it's become clear that killing the old SEGA . SEGA is all but dead , there's no vision , not breakthrough IP, no creativity no world leading tech. Its sad to see what's happened to SEGA Japan - They are now just a average run of the mill 3rd party  imo

[Nirmugen]

Yes, I kinda research rapidly so I make that big mistake. Sorry, my bad this time . You have the reason.

For correcting the error, I have researched much better than before. I will say that is true that Bayo sells well but I think not enough..for Sega and their contract . 1+  million copies all across all system in 2010  alone is a really good number but for this game, I think Sega expected 2 or 3 million that year. It's the same case like the Square-Enix expectations with Tomb Raider (2013) sales.
Even MGR: Revengeance has had this kind of problem.


Changing the subject, I don't think that many important japanese game developers trying something completly new and revolutionary this last generations practically because they have done many, many things before that are game changing when they can do it without problems. Now all the JP 3rd Parties played it safe with their IP's.  Or many are focusing only in the Japanese audience or many are trying to globalize their  most important IP's for all types of people (from casual players to dedicated players). And that's not bad overall because if they do many many things,  I'm that we would have many THQ' cases from the East.
 

[ROJM]

Yes, I kinda research rapidly so I make that big mistake. Sorry, my bad this time . You have the reason.

For correcting the error, I have researched much better than before. I will say that is true that Bayo sells well but I think not enough..for Sega and their contract . 1+  million copies all across all system in 2010  alone is a really good number but for this game, I think Sega expected 2 or 3 million that year. It's the same case like the Square-Enix expectations with Tomb Raider (2013) sales.
Even MGR: Revengeance has had this kind of problem.


Changing the subject, I don't think that many important japanese game developers trying something completly new and revolutionary this last generations practically because they have done many, many things before that are game changing when they can do it without problems. Now all the JP 3rd Parties played it safe with their IP's.  Or many are focusing only in the Japanese audience or many are trying to globalize their  most important IP's for all types of people (from casual players to dedicated players). And that's not bad overall because if they do many many things,  I'm that we would have many THQ' cases from the East.
 

1.5 million was the Japanese number before the game was released in the west. The US number sold under that so 2 mil is roughly how it sold which is still good. Sega didn't expect 3 million because they knew the conditions for a new IP to sell that many would never happen. Hell not even Sonic by itself can sell over a million units unless paired with Mario. i think you're putting too much expectations on something that was never really a reality.

[Nirmugen]

1.5 million was the Japanese number before the game was released in the west.

No : http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/20100514_hosoku_e_final.pdf#page=5
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/25465/bayonetta/Japan/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/25464/bayonetta/Japan/

[ROJM]

No : http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/20100514_hosoku_e_final.pdf#page=5
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/25465/bayonetta/Japan/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/25464/bayonetta/Japan/

Yes it was. BAYONETTA came out in japan at 2009. Sega sales report for december came out for that number alone. It was reported here as well And if you are going to use sources quote from a more reliable source than VG Chartz...