Fans also made mistakes

[Mariano]

Hi. I wasnt sure where start this topic, if in the gaming discussion or in the general SEGA discussion but in the end i think this is the right place because is a topic that involves the whole industry.


Well the other day i was at the SEGA forums the first time in a while and i started to read what people think about tons of topics. It was very interesting, i felt that i was in a circular table talking about what we think is better for, in this case, SEGA. Very similar of how i fell here. It was very interesting indeed. I came out with the conclusion that many or maybe all the poeple at those forums want console games from SEGA with quality of course and especially games from SEGA japan. This is not surprising, i think this is good actually, is very healthy that fans want to express their ideas and opinions to someome so that someome (SEGA in this case) can deliver that product and be better.


BUT...here is the main topic... in my opinion many or all the people at those forums didnt know how to express themselves. I think that a fan can ask all that he want to a company, but there is a difference between doing it with common sense and doing with selfish and arrogance.


Here, let me give an example with the Yakuza series. Many SEGA fans want yakuza 5, OK thats cool but here is how many people at least in my opinion ask for it:


"Hey SEGA where is yakuza 5?, stop ignoring your fans and better clean your fucking ears and brings us what your REAL fans want, not crappy mobile games that nobody wants and strategy games. Put your shit together." And this is a "soft" example..


Particularly i dont know why SEGA can not bring that game, the size problem doesnt convince me... but, is this really the way to ask for something? insulting and thinking that what you want or believe is what everybody want?. Maybe some of them are going to say that "SEGA make me to ask for things this way" but i disagree with that, is you who decided to insult and be arrogant, SEGA made you mad? OK, i am sorry but is you who in the end decided what to say.


I believe that the better way to ask for something, in this case a game, is being respectful. I want SEGA games from japan and for consoles rather than PC and mobile, just like many people, but if i want them i have to transmit to SEGA what i want in a way that they can considerer that opcion.


If i ask them for a game in a way like i put in the example i am basically saying this:
"Hey SEGA we are a disrespectful niche fanbase that want you to put money in a project that problaby is going to make you lose it insteed of investing in cheaper games for a mayor group of customers (mobile games) and games that requires a big investment but have already a big and solid fanbase (Total war or football manager games).


I am not sure if games are more expensive to develop than before i think is more the marketing part who is more hard to work with. But the whole market is changing, we are at the beginning of a new generation, companies are trying to invest in new IPs ("watch dogs", "Destiny", Etc) and is very difficult to compite with them. The mobile market is there growing in a slow but safe walk, and the PC was always there.


If all this is not enought, companies have to fight piracy, with people that want 1080p in their games from one day to another, and if a found the little bug then all the hardwork of my developers worth nothing and that game where i spent a lot of time, money and hardwork is to these "fans" the biggest piece of shit they had ever seen...


Sometimes is fair to be mad and complain, some companies had lie to us, SEGA had lie to us, but we had also made mistakes... we want everything to be perfect, in short term developing times and if it is cheap then better without those "disgusting and bad" DLCs, filling their forums with spam and talking bad about their games in all the internet...sometimes without even actually played them...


I am sick of hearing gamers saying the industry is sick that the companies dont give a shit about us...but we are not different, haters and fanboys dont help, and if the "good" fan dont know how to be polite and express their complains in an objective way then we have the same amount of fault than companies. We are the most important part in the industry and if the industry is sick then is logic to think that we had also made mistakes.


I could about this for hours but i will stop here. I want to know your opinions guys and thanks for reading.

[Kuronoa]

I agree.  People are too quick to insult them when they ask for stuff.  I asked others to be more civil on Sega Forum before.

It gets worse, it looks like Sega fans are competing with one another.  Many are angry that Project Diva is getting attention over Yakuza or Phantasy Star even though the series was in a worse condition than either prior to localization and we should praise Sega West for giving it a chance an succeeding at it.  Of course people also think Total War and Sonic are keeping series like Jet Set Radio and Streets of Rage away even though they can be made with a different developer and their marketing is different.

[Nirmugen]

Yeah, I think SOA really,really wants to localize those games (see that image of forbidden questions that SOA put in a Interview meeting of Momocon . Sure, it's a joke, but it is not like they are mocking on us like many angry people write about, it reveals that they are very thoughtful about this and really concern), but they can't do it if people tend to not supporting that for whatever reason.


Remember the poor sales of the re-release of Jet Set Radio and Nights, two "cult-classic" games that nobody that suppose to be a niche fanbase, go and buy it. Sega was losing money with this and, because of the continuing layoffs in the West part of Sega in the last years, that's not a good sign.


I'm really sure that SOA wants Yakuza or Phantasy Star or any new IP for SOJ in the west market, but also they doesn't want to lose money to complace a few people(nor in the level of a niche fanbase) that buy it . The gaming industry doesn't work like that and people/fans need to understand that. 

[Duplex]

What are the sales figures of NiGHTS and Jet Set Radio HD anyway? I was under the impression they did relatively well.

[inthesky]

I don't entirely disagree with the OP, but the problem is, as far as fans contributing to a "perceived sickness" of the industry, well if the desperate angry posts are any indication, the fans aren't the ones making the decision here on what the companies do. I'm not calling for that per se, but the idea that fans have some sort of equal culpability is something I'm skeptical of. I think there are instances of tons of disrespectful behavior but I highly doubt that it significantly dissuades Sega or Capcom or whatever from moving forward with their own plans, at least on aggregate. I just think that, it's the nature of the industry - an individual fan is responsible for a lot less than a company, so they feel ranting.

I do agree that fans should act as best as they can as often as they can. This might seem like a weak answer, but I'm just allowing for the fact that every once in a while someone's going to get pissed. I don't think a fan spamming up a forum with "SEGA LOCALIZE PSO2 U HEV FAILED THE FANS)" is covered by this. I wouldn't even necessarily mind company people getting frustrated, as long as they could explain themselves later.

On another note, I don't get the impression that mobile is all that hospitable an arena. Square has certainly done well, but it doesn't appear Capcom has, and on the whole I was under the impression that there are more failures and derivative products than there is this idea of an avalanche of innovative games with at least moderate success where anyone can be a winner and etc. etc. Like, I don't play mobile games, and I understand why lots of people (well, a particular segment of the gaming population more than anything, mostly niche gamers) begrudge their success, but I don't really care if they make mobile games. At least, absent of context. Breath of Fire 6 was just a disastrous idea, for example.

What are the sales figures of NiGHTS and Jet Set Radio HD anyway? I was under the impression they did relatively well.

Not good, I think. I remember seeing somewhere that NiGHTS didn't do well.

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edit:

I don't think it's entirely marketing. There has to be something that beefs up costs. I've read that the game industry in the US benefits significantly from tax credits. maybe salaries and more benefits or something? but even then, why do we still have regular downsizing and studio closures? Perhaps the industry is that volatile?

[Mariano]

Thanks for the answers. Yes the market is very volatile in my opinion. I think in shorts words, Fans have the final words in the industry to decide where companies will go. Of course an individual fan have no power or decision over a company fate, but the whole fanbase make a decision in an undirect way. They dont go to a company office and decide this and that just for their convenience obviously. But Sega, Capcom, Etc speak in just one language, Money. Is clear that there are tons of other factors rather than just the reception of a game (For example, the tomb raider reboot have good sales in my opinion but not enough for Square-Enix and i believe it was for Square-Enix efforts rather than the fans guilty) but in the end the companies are the ones that decide to give this product another oportunity or just dont use it anymore. That is the moment where fans efforts will be important, to balance the fate of a franchise to our favor or not, because this is a circle and if we want companies to do good we have to make our part and viceversa.




About mobile games i think that the fans have a wrong idea about this market. Is not that mobile will kill consoles, is not that know you are going to play GTA6 on IOS and android, is not that all the mobile games have an exaggerated amount of microtransactions. It is OK if you dont like or dont care about this kind of games, but most of the gamers just dont like them because they fear that many things that they love are going to "be killed" according to them. Crazy taxi is dead because SEGA release a spin-Off mobile game? thats nonsense in my opinion the franchise is still there, and this is a mistake from those gamers. "Mobile is cancer in the industry" this is an example of what i am saying, why is cancer? because you think is hurting the industry and making developers loose their jobs? or because you are selfish and you are afraid that a franchise will be "get killed"? i think the answer is pretty obvious, and the same thing is hapenning with digital format and other things.
Mobile games give to many companies a rental business and not to others, but in the end looks like a healthy industry for the most part. You can disagree about some decisions (Like the example of breath of fire 6) but like i said in the OP, if you complain saying "Capcom you deserve to die for doing this and i want you to sell this IP to another company" then dont expect them to change their minds...on the contrary, expect them to ignore you and go look another fanbase (Like Capcom is doing with the Resident evil franchise).


Anyway thanks for the replies, talking abut this is vey fun. I will end here and read the article that you post thanks.

[tammybilla]

sega will never loose its fans, because they have produced so many great games

[RegalSin]

To keep things short and not type a wall of text.

Real game makers were dude from the age of 10 to 30 something, getting along with each other not caring about the rest of the world, and making something special. Now the companies have transformed video-games into a godless abomination of a media type. Remember Commandor 64? That is the videogames in a nutshell. Anything beyond that was the birth child of that generation.

As new systems arrive more and more game companies move to other systems. Because of DLC people are not going outside as much and turns Media-dens into crime scenes. So the entire consumer base is divided now and forever until a system comes along and unites everybody.

To make things worst with the decreasing population, and increase in aging population more and more consumers are more tatical about what the consume/eat/sample. Like my father had a dog, and it was old. She gave birth to many little pups. Nowadays she sniffs, any thing thrown at her. She is cautious of what she eats. But the pups, will come out of nowhere like a malestorm and even pick up the rocks. So when a treat is given to her, the pup would come out of nowhere and snag the treat.

That is what we are now. Old dogs. I am not buying DLC. I am not buying anything I do not have to buy. I have like over seven systems already setup. Why don't they make a game for the SS, or Dreamcast. Maybe they will turn some heads. The have to submit to our demands or else, we will all be a bunch of pc gamers, including stupid phone users

Only reason people like SEGA is because like the elections. They are the lesser evil. They left the game early.

[MadeManG74]

That is what we are now. Old dogs. I am not buying DLC. I am not buying anything I do not have to buy. I have like over seven systems already setup. Why don't they make a game for the SS, or Dreamcast.

Is this a real question?

[RegalSin]

Your asking is that even a choice on the table?

That is what voting is about. Choice. If every game person, stop purchasing games, and said they want games for the Dreamcast, and held a boycott, and wrote letters who would win? The buyer or seller? it is called the customer is always right. That is how much power we have, the problem is that we forget about it.

Take Megaman creator. He gave the fans a choice. I will admit I said "Make your game, but I prefer it to be on the PCE, PSX, Saturn, or even Dreamcast." Or something along those lines. So I was saying I want the game but I do not want to be forced to get the current gen. Basically Capcom wants to make the current gen but they want full support from the fanbase. Not partiality support.
They know the game will not sell because the fans are not buying the system they are making the game for. The same with cell phone games.

People have their limitations.