So... Has anyone noticed... (Sega/Sonic related)

[Team Andromeda]

Sonic colors is the best sonic game in over a decade.  I am particularly amused by people who prefer games like SA2, Unleashed, and 06(games that had you play as sonic through 1/2 of the game at the MOST) to what is obviously a superior product.  I hope the anniversary project is in the same vein as Colors but I am open to changes.

well, i enjoyed that half in Unleashed way more than Colors. i don't care about the other half that much as long as the gameplay and the stages design in Unleashed are the best thing that SONIC TEAM could ever came up with.

to clarify more if i would rate the day time part in sonic unleashed i would give it a 9 and i am serious here, but no way for Colors to receive the same appreciation.

and i feel the anniversary project will not disappoint me by adding power-up system, so i am expecting something as great/better than unleashed

I complety agree. Sonic Unlashed was bloody brilliant imo. _let down by a lack of polish and piss poor Hub system

[MadeManG74]

I have to disagree with the praise for Unleashed. I found it tolerable with some moments of good game shining through what was overall a pretty poor game. The night-time levels were horrendous for the most part, and the daytime levels could be pretty hit or miss too. Some were very fun and others were just rubbish IMO. Not to mention some stuff that is just irrefutably bad, like the QTE segments and moments that required trial and error to safely get through.

[cube_b3]

1) yeah it is stilly, but it is their. It largely refers to the games developed for them today on Dreamcast or Genesis. They are made with a lot of love for SEGA.

2) They were young designers groomed by SEGA, they worked under the likes of Cerny, Naka, Toyoda etc.

3) Sure, why not? I don't know all that much about CodeMaster. But the point is Sumo worked under Mie Kumagi of AM3, Yu Suzuki was still at AM2 around the time SUMO got involved. They've also worked with other legends when it came to SST & SSR, Uchida's Studio made the entire model for Gillius Thunderblade.

So they worked under SEGA for several ports, and they collabrated with the designers for SST, and finally in 2009 they released VT2009 independently.

4) I don't know what MSG & NCL stand for?

5) I got involved in the 90s and what you talking about?
Naka joined SEGA before he even went to uni?

2) In most cases they started programming elsewhere, and moved to SEGA or however. Some of the main people that set up Crystal Dynamics came from STI, shame we count them as SEGA too ?

3) When you're porting stuff that's what tend to happens. If Travel Tails a In-House Corp, because they worked with Sonic Team and meet the likes of Yuji Naka . And no VT 2009 was no released independently, it was produced by SEGA.  

4) ? Metal Gear Soild and Nintendo Company Limited

5) ?  You like to say you can't be real SEGA unless you worked your way up and don't like to class outsiders as SEGA. Well CSK was nothing to do with SEGA untill 82 and only invested in SEGA for profits, Same with SAMMY. Both outsiders investing in SEGA; you're fin with that but not count the likes of CA as being In-House studios ??

4) Then you should've called it MGS not MSG.

Anyway look we can go at this all day, which I am up for?

Send me a pm with your MSN ID and let's do this, i'll add you.

[Team Andromeda]

1) yeah it is stilly, but it is their. It largely refers to the games developed for them today on Dreamcast or Genesis. They are made with a lot of love for SEGA.

2) They were young designers groomed by SEGA, they worked under the likes of Cerny, Naka, Toyoda etc.

3) Sure, why not? I don't know all that much about CodeMaster. But the point is Sumo worked under Mie Kumagi of AM3, Yu Suzuki was still at AM2 around the time SUMO got involved. They've also worked with other legends when it came to SST & SSR, Uchida's Studio made the entire model for Gillius Thunderblade.

So they worked under SEGA for several ports, and they collabrated with the designers for SST, and finally in 2009 they released VT2009 independently.

4) I don't know what MSG & NCL stand for?

5) I got involved in the 90s and what you talking about?
Naka joined SEGA before he even went to uni?

2) In most cases they started programming elsewhere, and moved to SEGA or however. Some of the main people that set up Crystal Dynamics came from STI, shame we count them as SEGA too ?

3) When you're porting stuff that's what tend to happens. If Travel Tails a In-House Corp, because they worked with Sonic Team and meet the likes of Yuji Naka . And no VT 2009 was no released independently, it was produced by SEGA.  

4) ? Metal Gear Soild and Nintendo Company Limited

5) ?  You like to say you can't be real SEGA unless you worked your way up and don't like to class outsiders as SEGA. Well CSK was nothing to do with SEGA untill 82 and only invested in SEGA for profits, Same with SAMMY. Both outsiders investing in SEGA; you're fin with that but not count the likes of CA as being In-House studios ??

4) Then you should've called it MGS not MSG.

Anyway look we can go at this all day, which I am up for?

Send me a pm with your MSN ID and let's do this, i'll add you.

Sorry, and I'm always up for a debate on the boards

[Barry the Nomad]

Way it works for me is I flip the game box in the air. If it lands front side up, it's a great SEGA game. If it lands back side down its a shitty third party game, and if it lands on the spine (a rarity) it's a triple-A Yu Suzuki game.

[Sharky]

no Sharky you are wrong ... totally wrong about the day levels
in Unleashed the stages built around many gameplay elements that fits with a speedy action platformer, you have jumping , quick stepping , sliding , drifting , boosting , stomping etc ... all works great and the flow of the game is just fantastic and above all that you have tons of things to discover in each level.

^This is the feeling I took away from Sonic Colours, It had all of those things and more.

Whilst Sonic Unleashed had those things the main aim of the game was to speed through the levels at a break neck speed, boosting as much as possible and everything else kept to a minimum...

The most impressive thing about Sonic Unleashed, by far is the engine itself. The gameplay felt barebone...

The DLC for Sonic Unleashed was much better then the original levels imo even though they were put togeather cheaply the design was more challenging and less speed focused.

but in the opposite side the flow of the game in colors was terrible IMO, the game feels a little bit different than what a sonic game should deliver, some of the levels were amazing but not as amazing as the levels in unleashed not even close.

I disgaree, the unleashed levels are far better in terms of graphics, engine, draw distance etc... But level design and inventive gameplay took a massive back seat in Unleashed compared to Colours.

Even abilities invented in Unleashed like quick step and the drift works absolutely awful in colors, the exploration in colors almost depends entirety on the new power-up system which was a bit off for a sonic game.

Fine by me, the powers pretty much gave Sonic Colours the depth 3D Sonic games have been missing for years.

about the night levels as i said it doesn't matter that much for me as long as i am having a blast with the day time levels. but i am sure the werehog is far a way from been the worst thing that ever happened to sonic in the last years, there are far far worse things happened to the franchise.

There is far to much werehog shit in the game to simply ignore, it takes up more then half of the experience and lasts a lot longer... If Sonic Unleashed was just the Sonic levels then I think it could be compared to Sonic Colours but it isnt, it's more then 50% werehog and so more then 50% terrible.

[Barry the Nomad]

I've been playing Unleashed recently for the 360, been trying to complete the game. I did complete the PS2 version in '08, but have been playing the 360 one on and off since '09. There are definitely spans when the game is amazing, such as when you get to play a few Sonic day stages in a row followed by a boss, but then that god damn werehog appears and I put the game on hold for a month, waiting for a day where I'll have 45 minutes to burn so I can make it through one or two werehog stages.

The latest stretch I've played was Adabat day, followed by the Adabat boss, Tornado Defense Act 2 and then Eggmanland. From the beginning of Adabat day up to the first werehog segment of Eggmanland, it was great!

What am I getting at? Nothing. Just thought I'd share.

[CrazyT]

If you count playtime instead of how many stages,the werehog takes the largest portion of the game. It'd be something like 65% werehog 35% day.

[Suzuki Yu]

If you count playtime instead of how many stages,the werehog takes the largest portion of the game. It'd be something like 65% werehog 35% day.

but then there is a huge re-playability in sonic levels while the werehog levels designed to be played once

[Radrappy]

If you count playtime instead of how many stages,the werehog takes the largest portion of the game. It'd be something like 65% werehog 35% day.

but then there is a huge re-playability in sonic levels while the werehog levels designed to be played once

I mean, if you even had the endurance to get through the werehog levels to begin with sure.  Keep in mind that the average gamer isn't going to muscle through them.  For the record, I don't hate unleashed.  I think it was a step in the right direction design wise and was prettying visually amazing.  I really enjoyed playing through the apostos and mazuri day stages.  I think if the rest of the speed stages had been at that same level of quality, I might be agreeing with you right now.

[CrazyT]

but then there is a huge re-playability in sonic levels while the werehog levels designed to be played once

Yeah that's true, but it's still forced at first playthrough. Kinda tedious playing a sonic game where the core gameplay takes less of the game. I really don't like the concept of just going fast in sonic games. I like having to stop and think sometimes too. A good balance between the 2 has always been in the classics as well, but colors brought it back finally.

@radrappy

It's funny how you only like the easier stages, cuz that is like the whole problem of the game. The game does get challenging, but the gameplay mechanic doesn't allow real difficulty but only trial and error. It's because the game is just simply too fast and the controls aren't tight enough. You cannot die from simple enemy hazards, they are there for just preventing your S ranks. Actual . Only way to make it more challenging is by botomless pits. Anyone may have noticed that from the first stage, the whole game is surounded by them, which is so damn frustrating. Nobody likes to get killed when you're really trying to get better at the game but the game doesn't allow you to because it delibiratly kills you.

It's basically sonic rush in 3d because sonic rush shares the exact same problems. A botomless pit coming out of nowhere will kill you unless you don't boost, but if you don't boost, some redundant enemy placed along the way will hit you as well. So you pick, get hit and frustrated by hazards, or let the botomless pit get you. It's just simply bad game design imo, and a great portion of fans seem to have aknowledged it. I just cannot have fun when a game is designed to delibiratly kill me. A game should be built in a way that you get rewarded for your skill as you progress.

[Radrappy]

yeah apart from the two stages I mentioned, the speed stages aren't much fun.  I was always being wowed by the lighting/environments but jesus were they a pain to play.  There was a nice bit in mazuri that had sonic traveling in what was essentially a loop that would dump you back to earlier in the loop if you missed a jump.  This is a good example of difficulty that's more encouraging than it is frustrating.  A player should never be punished with death for not knowing the layout of a level.

[Barry the Nomad]

Not replying to anybody, just thinking aloud:

I found Unleashed to be a far better game once completed and all stages were unlocked, or at the very least everything was completed up until Eggmanland. I've just reached Eggmanland, and found that the game is far better now that I am able to jump around between day stages, playing the ones I enjoy. Also, I can finally play all the the DLC stages which are, as Sharky said, better than some of the on-disc stages. Even though I'm only replaying 30% of the total game plus DLC, at least I'm enjoying a solid chunk of stages that are equitable to the amount in SA2.

It's just a shame that one has to play through most of the game, putting up with the 30+ minute werehog stages and the tedious medal collecting, in order to reach that ideal spot where you can basically level select the good stuff and play the DLC.

Some could also argue that Sonic Advenure 1&2 are better games once you have all the Sonic stages available, as you can just play through the trial menu of SA1 or jump around the map of SA2 playing Sonic/Shadow. However, I think that unlike Unleashed, the non-Sonic segments of SA1 and 2 are so short that even if you're hating on having to play as Big, Amy or E-102, their stories could probably be beaten in the same amount of time that it takes to complete three of the longer werehog stages. Same goes for SA2, I don't recall the treasure hunting stages or mech shooters taking all that long before the next Sonic/Shadow stage hit.

Long point I think I'm getting at: Sonic Colors seems to be, based on how much I've played so far, the FIRST 3D Sonic game where what I'm playing in the main game is all of the same content that I could see myself returning to once completing the game. No stage or act looks to be non-Sonic filler that I play through just to get to play the upcoming Sonic stage.

[cube_b3]

Just tell me this... what are you supposed to do in the damn simulation stages?

I never got them?

[Barry the Nomad]

Run to the goal ring, just as you would a normal Sonic stage. You can play as 1 player, switching between the blue and the red Sonic if you'd like (though I didn't see a reason to in the early acts, perhaps later puzzles require it). Or you can play as 1.5 players (I assume thats with an AI controlled second player) or 2 players.

Layouts are inspired by Sonic 1 maps, there are three acts per colored emerald zone. Game starts off with one act available in each, additional acts are unlocked by collecting the red rings in the main stages. Collect all red rings = all Sonic Sim acts are unlocked. Complete all Sonic Sim acts = collect all Chaos emeralds = Super Sonic.

So basically, Sonic Simulator is the special stage of the game.