Author Topic: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011  (Read 13158 times)

Offline max_cady

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2011, 09:25:57 am »
True, but in order for that to happen you would need to have a really big goverment-funded infrastructure, with lots of cabinet positions, public owned companies, public sector unions, tons of useless regulating bodies that are redundant, a ton of observatories that don't actually do nothing, a ton of state owned television network,state owned phones lines, state-owned energy sectors, subsidized crops,etc. And most of this is unprofitable (I'm speaking of Portugal's case, of course).

You need a lot of revenue (ie sales tax, corporate tax, VAT, Social Security, IRS and other local taxes) to keep this whole thing afloat and even then it still might not be enough.

You see, the labor regulation in Portugal also doesn't help, because it is impossible to fire anyone. Well, not impossible, but the necessary paperwork to do so, takes almost 4 months to fill out, since the State dictates the terms between employee and employer, and still not get anywhere.

Also, the minimum wage for a full-time job is way above the market price, so many people either have part-time jobs (like me) or resort to become freelancers doing several odd jobs.

In order to keep many of the public sector jobs still going, of course, taxes are going to indeed keep getting higher.

Of course, there's always a catch, you see the newly elected Portuguese administration has pledged to cut spending, but taxes are going to increase to fill the treasury(VAT going to 25%) to make up for the loss. On the plus side, there's going to be some major changes in the labour market which will at least ease the pain.

The US already has some things right from the start: a very flexible market and a solid tax system(tax rates varies from state to state, though).
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Offline Aki-at

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2011, 10:44:44 am »
But if you gain money from cutting all that and then lose money from lowering taxes, you are not exactly sloving the problem, you are just stalling it.
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Offline tarpmortar

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2011, 04:07:35 pm »
Quote from: "max_cady"
Max's large post

I get those issues, but bottom line is Germany has achieved social programs, with affordable college education, and well devised healthcare system. All while keeping unemployment low, and quality of life high. Even through this worldwide recession.



Quote from: "George"
Or we can just be the America the founding fathers wanted us to be.

Slave owning and wife beating? Don't get me wrong, the constitution has a ton of stuff I agree with, but the founding fathers weren't infallible.
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Offline max_cady

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2011, 05:31:39 pm »
@TaroYamada
The problem with Germany is that it risks getting dragged down under, since it's lending money to Portugal, Greece and Ireland, to which they can't possibly pay back. And yes, I give kudos to Chanceller Angela Merkell, she rebuilt the bridge that Schroder had burned down during the early Bush years.


However, Germany is but one country in an immense European Union that still needs several reforms, before it can trully be a giant.
Spain's economy was crippled by too many entitelments programs and a green industry that hid many of it's real costs.
The only downside on Germany, like most of the European nations right now,is that freedom of speech is hindered by too much PC mentality.
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Offline George

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2011, 01:13:10 am »
Quote from: "TaroYamada"
Slave owning and wife beating? Don't get me wrong, the constitution has a ton of stuff I agree with, but the founding fathers weren't infallible.
Yes, they owned slaves. But you make it seem like it was taboo back then. There are still slaves in this world, its me and you. We have to jump through hoops while big corporations pay off politicians to pass a law that will screw us over more and more.

Yes, I'm  sure the politics of the founding fathers where to beat your wife.  :| Seriously?

That is like me taking your German comment and say "KILL ALL JEWS?!" Why are you so quick to point out something negative?
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Offline tarpmortar

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2011, 03:22:07 am »
Quote from: "George"
Yes, they owned slaves. But you make it seem like it was taboo back then. There are still slaves in this world, its me and you. We have to jump through hoops while big corporations pay off politicians to pass a law that will screw us over more and more.

Yes, I'm  sure the politics of the founding fathers where to beat your wife.  :| Seriously?

That is like me taking your German comment and say "KILL ALL JEWS?!" Why are you so quick to point out something negative?

Wife beating rather states the position of the American government to not grant women the right to vote, and ignore providing them basic, other, rights. At the time of course. Your jew comment makes no sense as I referenced Germany under the modern era, which isn't exactly neo-nazi. Where as the era discussed for the United States was one of great inequality for women versus men.

I cannot believe I am forced into playing the role of a feminist right now, especially as I am openly a male chauvinist.

Quote from: "max_cady"
@TaroYamada
The problem with Germany is that it risks getting dragged down under, since it's lending money to Portugal, Greece and Ireland, to which they can't possibly pay back. And yes, I give kudos to Chanceller Angela Merkell, she rebuilt the bridge that Schroder had burned down during the early Bush years.


However, Germany is but one country in an immense European Union that still needs several reforms, before it can trully be a giant.
Spain's economy was crippled by too many entitelments programs and a green industry that hid many of it's real costs.
The only downside on Germany, like most of the European nations right now,is that freedom of speech is hindered by too much PC mentality.

I get that it is having issues with providing welfare to other EU member states, I am sure however, that given their judgment thus far, they will be conservative with their loans and ensure their stability first and foremost. As for the freedom of speech issue, I am well aware Germany isn't perfect, but they aren't particularly bad. Furthermore the example you provided will go nowhere in a court of law, though it is ridiculous that it even happened.

Still, I'd rather we have that happening in the United States than this vilification of government whistleblowers like Thomas Drake, or people who provide means for whistleblowers to whistleblow more easily. Namely a certain Julian Assange.
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Offline max_cady

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2011, 04:09:10 am »
Except that the EU in it's current model is prone to fail miserably. Even though it establishes a good free trade zone, it still suffers with too much proteccionism and high taxation.

You see when, in the old Europe, whenever a nation became bankrupt they would essentially update their currency, but with the EU having a centralized monetary policy, there's a good change that it cannot do so.
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Offline George

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2011, 06:09:05 pm »
I don't mind the progressive things. I just think we shouldn't be all over the world and fighting wars, letting companies have tax loop holes to screw our economy. Women shouldn't vote either.

All is right.
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Offline max_cady

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2011, 04:42:28 am »
Well, that is also one of the fundamental flaws in the Keynesian mindset, to think that things like public works and war help the economy in any way, shape or form. Even the famous broken window story is just not pratical in real life.

Nobody necessarily is for war, I can understand the overal plans for Iraq and Afganistan, which technically are now officially over. The Lybia war front will most likely be Obama's downfall, because of several reasons:

  • Lybia is no longer a secutiry threat to the US since 2003;
  • Obama, after dogpilling on Bush for going to war, without the consent of the global community, goes and does something far worse, goes into war, talks to everybody else and only talks to Congress, Senate and the american people 10 days after it started;
  • There really is no actual strategy involved here and no clear goal, just some occasional bombings but since there's no actual troops on the ground to assess the situation, whatever bombings take place or aid is being sent to said civilians, this could go on forever;


Just one little pet peeve of mine: If Presient Obama is willing to show his birth certificate (and only because Trump asked), yet photos of Bin Laden are taboos. Over-inflated ego, much?
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Offline George

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2011, 04:14:58 am »
No one wants to go to war? Yes, the people that profit from war, want to go to war. The soldiers that trained hard want to go to war.
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Offline max_cady

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2011, 05:17:50 am »
There are four things that many people think that help jump start the economy:
-War;
-Natural disasters;
-Street crime(vandalism and theft);
-Public Works;

None of them have any positive effect. While WW2 is widely considered an exception, it brought an undesired consequence: the birth of the European entitelment mentality.

Yet, war, often times, is inevitable.

On a side note, since we talk about the forebearers and the founding fathers, I read up recentely on the Boston massacre in 1770...Powerful stuff.
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Offline Happy Cat

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2011, 09:48:47 pm »
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Offline tarpmortar

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2011, 05:37:02 pm »
Quote from: "ShadiNeko"
New York is going to hell!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyreg ... te.html?hp


Isn't that the opposite of the other place that also doesn't exist?  :P
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Offline SOUP

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2011, 07:05:46 pm »
Quote from: "ShadiNeko"
New York is going to hell!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyreg ... te.html?hp
I'm surprised this hasn't happened already. (The gay marriage thing, not the hell bit).
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: SEGAbits Official Politics Thread 2011
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2011, 04:35:58 am »
Quote from: "TaroYamada"
Quote from: "ShadiNeko"
New York is going to hell!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/25/nyreg ... te.html?hp


Isn't that the opposite of the other place that also doesn't exist?  :P

Yeah lol, those idiots who believe New York is real. Empire State buildings and diners? People didn't actually fall for that crap did they?
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