Seeing as a number of us here read comic books and/or graphic novels, I figured we could use a thread.
This is for comics and graphic novels of all kinds, from
Superman to
Preacher to
Tin-tin!
First, lets continue the discussion from the Summer Movie Trailer thread - I'm going to go a bit nuts here in terms of how much write probably, not just because of Sharky's comments, but because I think this is a common argument against comics and superheros in general:
Tin tin comics were fantastic, like Marvel comics but not at all rubbish.
(troll.jpg)
Honest question, have you actually read any Marvel comics?
A friend of mine has quite a few of them, some spiderman, thor etc... That said, I've never finished a single one... But I've flipped though a few.
Couldn't be further from what I enjoy reading.
That's kinda like me playing a bit of Sonic 2006 and then playing a level of Iron Man 2 and saying Sega make shitty video games.
A lot of people do do that! In fact I would say Sega's biggest downfall is they have made shitty games like that in their most popular brands, if people play a Sonic game and find it to be total shit then they are bound to think that Sega are shit in general if that is their flagship title.
First of all, I find it strange that you find it so frustrating that people take this attitude towards Sega, but you find it perfectly fine to have the same response to other companies/franchises like Marvel.
I think the biggest issue here is that comic books are generally NOT self-contained at all. 'Flicking through' a random issue of a random superhero comic is comparable to playing ten minutes of Yakuza 4's Hostess Mini-games and deciding that Sega is a shit-house company because 'All you do is dress up a prostitute in some girly sim game. Sega must make crappy games.'
I believe Spiderman, Xmen, Thor etc are Marvels flagship comics, I shouldn't have to dig out a 1994 copy of Captain Antman to find something that interests me.
Spider-Man, X-Men and Thor are some of their more popular franchises, but you can't just pick up any given comic and expect to enjoy it. It would be like coming into an episode of your favourite TV show half season and 20 minutes into the episode and expecting to understand and fully enjoy it. At the very least you really should pick up a self-contained arc in trade form or something where you can get a a proper beginning and end to a story.
In all honesty I find crime fighting super heroes with magical powers to be an absolute bore, be it in comic form, be it the movies. It's always the same plot with a different power.
I can't disagree with this more. Admittedly, I dont read much mainstream Marvel Universe stuff, but from what I know very often it's not the powers that seperate the characters, but their motivation and methods. One of my favourite comparisons is Punisher and Daredevil.
These two characters in particular have a great rivalry and contrast. They both fight crime, and have similar motivations for doing so, but their methods and ideology differs so much.
Daredevil's father was killed by the mob, and Punisher's Family was killed by the mob.
Daredevil saw this as a weakness in the ability of society to follow and understand the law, and became a lawyer to better enforce it and understand it. Punisher saw this as proof that the law isn't effective and for true justice, he would need to work outside the law to punish the guilty.
When he became Daredevil he decided that he needed to bring criminals to justice by the letter of the law, and bring them to be judged in court. Punisher decided that the only way to truly stomp out the evil was to pursue 'natural justice' and work outside the law to kill the criminals.
Daredevil operates out of Hell's Kitchen, NY and Punisher operates out of New York City, NY- meaning they bump heads quite often. Thanks to their differing ideals it makes for some pretty compelling reading with the two of them contrasting so nicely. The fact that they would never kill eachother (Punisher only kills the guilty) also means that there is a great dilemma where the only way Daredevil can stop the rivalry is to kill eachother, which both men would never do (Punisher has said before that if Daredevil sent him to prison he would just kill everone in prison or escape to continue his war- the only way to stop Punisher is to kill him, which of course would make DareDevil no better than Punisher. Daredevil's ideals are so strong the only way he'll stop hassling Punisher if for Punisher to kill him, but Punisher will never take the life of an innocent man, because he would be no better than the criminals he kills).
I would actually reccommend you check out one of these character's books/story arcs, since Daredevil has almost no super-powers and Punisher has none whatsoever. Ennis'
'Welcome Back Frank' is a good place to start with Punisher and Miller's
'Man Without Fear' is probably a good place to begin for DareDevil.
hahaha hey Sharky what do you think of Superman?
Superman is probably my least favourite of the entire lot of them, they made him so powerful that any interesting plot is pretty much not going to happen unless of course the bad guy has Kryptonite and what a coincidence, they ALWAYS do...
In any story the hero needs to be flawed, they need a problem to over come... Superman has so much going for him that they have to come up with silly plots just to make him weaker to make the plot mildly entertaining.
Lame.
If there was one super hero I do like, it's Batman the new Batman movies, starting with Batman Beguins are probably the best super hero movies out there... (Bar the silly gruff voice the actor puts on...)
It's clear you haven't read the excellent 'All-Star Superman' that Barry posted on the previous page...
In that comic, almost in a response to the argument that Superman is 'too powerful' they actually tripled his power in the first chapter. He becomes even more ridiculously powerful than he was previously, but they still make a fantastic story out of it.
Again, this is because the essence of Superman runs deeper than his powers. It's the great dichotomy of him being the most powerful being to ever walk the Earth, and yet he's just an innocent farm-boy from Kansas. He is unflinching in his beliefs and his desire to protect everyone from threat, no matter what.
And while Superman is incredibly powerful, he has a great rival in Lex Luthor... Like Punisher and Daredevil, this isn't so fascinating because of their powers and their punch-ups but rather their deeper motivations. If it weren't for Superman, Lex Luthor would be the most revered person on the planet. He's incredible intelligence and drive is unmatched and he cannot stand the fact that Superman has overtaken him. Lex had to strive and work for everything he's achieved whereas Superman was granted incredible powers through no effort of his own. He just crash-landed on Earth and instantly became the most powerful thing on it. He was never appointed or elected or even won the powers, he just was granted them. Why should the Earth be 'ruled' by someone who is not even a human? There is a whole lot to explore in Superman, but to cut a long story slightly less long (jeeez I've been rambling a bit haven't i?) it comes down to much more than "Lolz I have Kryptonite!"
Also, if you like Nolan Batman, I really really suggest checking out '
Batman- Year One, which was a strong inspiration for 'Batman Begins' and '
The Long Halloween', which is my personal favourite Batman story and a loose inspiration for The Dark Knight movie.
Anyway, please feel free to use this thread to disuss comics! Rebuttals, agreements, stuff and nonsense is all encouraged!
