Author Topic: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!  (Read 32979 times)

Offline MadeManG74

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Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« on: May 20, 2011, 04:37:44 pm »
Seeing as a number of us here read comic books and/or graphic novels, I figured we could use a thread.
This is for comics and graphic novels of all kinds, from Superman to Preacher to Tin-tin!


First, lets continue the discussion from the Summer Movie Trailer thread - I'm going to go a bit nuts here in terms of how much write probably, not just because of Sharky's comments, but because I think this is a common argument against comics and superheros in general:

Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Tin tin comics were fantastic, like Marvel comics but not at all rubbish.
(troll.jpg)

Honest question, have you actually read any Marvel comics?

A friend of mine has quite a few of them, some spiderman, thor etc... That said, I've never finished a single one... But I've flipped though a few.

Couldn't be further from what I enjoy reading.
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "MadeManG74"

That's kinda like me playing a bit of Sonic 2006 and then playing a level of Iron Man 2 and saying Sega make shitty video games.

A lot of people do do that! In fact I would say Sega's biggest downfall is they have made shitty games like that in their most popular brands, if people play a Sonic game and find it to be total shit then they are bound to think that Sega are shit in general if that is their flagship title.

First of all, I find it strange that you find it so frustrating that people take this attitude towards Sega, but you find it perfectly fine to have the same response to other companies/franchises like Marvel.

I think the biggest issue here is that comic books are generally NOT self-contained at all. 'Flicking through' a random issue of a random superhero comic is comparable to playing ten minutes of Yakuza 4's Hostess Mini-games and deciding that Sega is a shit-house company because 'All you do is dress up a prostitute in some girly sim game. Sega must make crappy games.'

Quote
I believe Spiderman, Xmen, Thor etc are Marvels flagship comics, I shouldn't have to dig out a 1994 copy of Captain Antman to find something that interests me.

Spider-Man, X-Men and Thor are some of their more popular franchises, but you can't just pick up any given comic and expect to enjoy it. It would be like coming into an episode of your favourite TV show half season and 20 minutes into the episode and expecting to understand and fully enjoy it. At the very least you really should pick up a self-contained arc in trade form or something where you can get a a proper beginning and end to a story.

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In all honesty I find crime fighting super heroes with magical powers to be an absolute bore, be it in comic form, be it the movies. It's always the same plot with a different power.

I can't disagree with this more. Admittedly, I dont read much mainstream Marvel Universe stuff, but from what I know very often it's not the powers that seperate the characters, but their motivation and methods. One of my favourite comparisons is Punisher and Daredevil.

These two characters in particular have a great rivalry and contrast. They both fight crime, and have similar motivations for doing so, but their methods and ideology differs so much.

Daredevil's father was killed by the mob, and Punisher's Family was killed by the mob.

Daredevil saw this as a weakness in the ability of society to follow and understand the law, and became a lawyer to better enforce it and understand it. Punisher saw this as proof that the law isn't effective and for true justice, he would need to work outside the law to punish the guilty.

When he became Daredevil he decided that he needed to bring criminals to justice by the letter of the law, and bring them to be judged in court. Punisher decided that the only way to truly stomp out the evil was to pursue 'natural justice' and work outside the law to kill the criminals.

Daredevil operates out of Hell's Kitchen, NY and Punisher operates out of New York City, NY- meaning they bump heads quite often. Thanks to their differing ideals it makes for some pretty compelling reading with the two of them contrasting so nicely. The fact that they would never kill eachother (Punisher only kills the guilty) also means that there is a great dilemma where the only way Daredevil can stop the rivalry is to kill eachother, which both men would never do (Punisher has said before that if Daredevil sent him to prison he would just kill everone in prison or escape to continue his war- the only way to stop Punisher is to kill him, which of course would make DareDevil no better than Punisher. Daredevil's ideals are so strong the only way he'll stop hassling Punisher if for Punisher to kill him, but Punisher will never take the life of an innocent man, because he would be no better than the criminals he kills).

I would actually reccommend you check out one of these character's books/story arcs, since Daredevil has almost no super-powers and Punisher has none whatsoever. Ennis' 'Welcome Back Frank' is a good place to start with Punisher and Miller's 'Man Without Fear' is probably a good place to begin for DareDevil.



Quote
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "cube_b3"
hahaha hey Sharky what do you think of Superman?
Superman is probably my least favourite of the entire lot of them, they made him so powerful that any interesting plot is pretty much not going to happen unless of course the bad guy has Kryptonite and what a coincidence, they ALWAYS do...

In any story the hero needs to be flawed, they need a problem to over come... Superman has so much going for him that they have to come up with silly plots just to make him weaker to make the plot mildly entertaining.

Lame.

If there was one super hero I do like, it's Batman the new Batman movies, starting with Batman Beguins are probably the best super hero movies out there... (Bar the silly gruff voice the actor puts on...)
It's clear you haven't read the excellent 'All-Star Superman' that Barry posted on the previous page...

In that comic, almost in a response to the argument that Superman is 'too powerful' they actually tripled his power in the first chapter. He becomes even more ridiculously powerful than he was previously, but they still make a fantastic story out of it.

Again, this is because the essence of Superman runs deeper than his powers. It's the great dichotomy of him being the most powerful being to ever walk the Earth, and yet he's just an innocent farm-boy from Kansas. He is unflinching in his beliefs and his desire to protect everyone from threat, no matter what.

And while Superman is incredibly powerful, he has a great rival in Lex Luthor... Like Punisher and Daredevil, this isn't so fascinating because of their powers and their punch-ups but rather their deeper motivations. If it weren't for Superman, Lex Luthor would be the most revered person on the planet. He's incredible intelligence and drive is unmatched and he cannot stand the fact that Superman has overtaken him. Lex had to strive and work for everything he's achieved whereas Superman was granted incredible powers through no effort of his own. He just crash-landed on Earth and instantly became the most powerful thing on it. He was never appointed or elected or even won the powers, he just was granted them. Why should the Earth be 'ruled' by someone who is not even a human? There is a whole lot to explore in Superman, but to cut a long story slightly less long (jeeez I've been rambling a bit haven't i?) it comes down to much more than "Lolz I have Kryptonite!"

Also, if you like Nolan Batman, I really really suggest checking out 'Batman- Year One, which was a strong inspiration for 'Batman Begins' and 'The Long Halloween', which is my personal favourite Batman story and a loose inspiration for The Dark Knight movie.





Anyway, please feel free to use this thread to disuss comics! Rebuttals, agreements, stuff and nonsense is all encouraged!
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Offline Chaosmaster8753

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2011, 04:40:01 pm »
Just finished reading Iron Man: Extremis, pretty good.
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2011, 09:37:08 pm »
^I've heard good things, is it meant to be a good introductory series for Iron Man?
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Offline Chaosmaster8753

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2011, 01:05:14 am »
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
^I've heard good things, is it meant to be a good introductory series for Iron Man?

Well, there is a flashback of the first time Tony built the Mark 1 suit after being kidnapped by terrorists.
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Offline Pao

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2011, 06:42:43 am »
Does this thread also covers Manga?  You know, they are technically comics.  :P
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2011, 08:28:46 am »
Great write up of those graphic novels Mademan!

My favorites would have to be:

Tintin





Tintin was one of the earliest series I got into. Awesome artwork, hilarious characters and great adventure stories that rival Indiana Jones and the best Uncle Scrooge stories. With the movie coming out, I really want to get back into the series and hopefully collect all the books. They're only about $8 each online.

Bone





I love Bone. Really hard to describe. It's sort of like it if Warner Bros. cartoon characters were dropped into the Lord of the Rings. Great mix of cartoon humor and fantasy. The complete book is a great price too, it's like the size of a bible though.

Dick Tracy: True Hearts and Tommy Guns





This is a great mini-series that I loved growing up. It's a prequel to the Dick Tracy movie. The artwork is fantastic and it's a pretty great story as well. The book is very cheap, usually $1-$5 used. If you like Dick Tracy, or good ol fashioned noir detective stories and great comic art, check this out.
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2011, 06:46:33 pm »
Quote from: "Pao"
Does this thread also covers Manga?  You know, they are technically comics.  :P

Go for it! I used to be a big fan of Hellsing actually (but that's the only one I've read.)


Nice mix of comics there Barrington. I've never read any of those, but the Dick Tracy one in particular sounds interesting. Was he ever in a serialised form apart from that, or is it just the strip otherwise?

The last graphic novel i've read was The Marquis: Inferno


Fantastic series set in an alternate rennaissance era Europe, where the Church has complete control over the entire continent and their word is law. The Marquis is a former inquisitor and soldier who begins to lose his faith. As he confesses a mask, pistols and sword appear to him in a dream. While wearing the mask he can see devils from hell who have possessed the living and using the weapons can send them back to hell. He begins hunting the evil presence and becomes known in hell as 'The Marquis'. It gets much darker and more intricate, but that's the basic gist. The art in particular is very good, with the design of the demons in particular being chilling.
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2011, 10:49:09 pm »
Quote
Nice mix of comics there Barrington. I've never read any of those, but the Dick Tracy one in particular sounds interesting. Was he ever in a serialised form apart from that, or is it just the strip otherwise?

It was mostly the newspaper stuff. From what I've found, there was a run of 145 issues running throughout the 50's. Probably was a lot like the newspaper stuff, but by a different artist, doubt Chester Gould did both monthly comics and daily strips.

Then there was a run of 99 issues in the '80's. Again, nothing more than what the daily stuff did.

The one I noted above seems to be the only mini-series to divert from the usual style of the series. Check it out! Even if you have to download it. It's a fun read. I believe a guy gets his entire body burnt on a kitchen grill as mob punishment. Pretty dark stuff for something based on a Disney movie.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2011, 09:20:51 am »
@Madmans first post.

I'll take your word for it, I've tried more than once to get into comics and graphic novels but I just never get sucked in. Super heroes just don't do it for me.

I've honestly only just started reading ANY fictional books again in the past year, before that I only read historical or books about real people. When it comes to fiction what I can get into is extremely selective, but if I can get into it I really enjoy it. I wanted to read the Watchmen graphic novel a while ago but for the life of me couldn't get into it and found absolutely no connection to the characters.

If there is anything I could get into it's probably other worldly fantasy style books, but even then I find so many of them are just completely awful. They all seem begin with pages upon pages of informative scene setting about worlds I don't have any reason to care about and lands all called 'Dragonathia' and 'Terapathia'.
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 03:26:45 am »
Funny you mentioned Watchmen in particular, since a lot of people seem to think it's a good introductory comic, but I think that it's the sort of thing that should be read AFTER having read a bunch of others. You really need to have read some other more traditional stuff to truly appreciate how different it was.
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Offline George

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2011, 07:05:28 am »
A few:






Will post more later :)
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Offline CosmicCastaway

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2011, 08:41:13 pm »
You are the man Barry! The TinTin books are marvelous!
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Unlimited Continues:
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For this edition of Unlimited Continues I share five of my favorite video game ninjas, three of which are SEGA characters!

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2011, 07:35:49 am »
Quote from: "CosmicCastaway"
You are the man Barry! The TinTin books are marvelous!

Thanks, yo! My favorite would have the be Cigars of the Pharaoh. Probably because I was an Egypt nut as a kid. Rastapopoulos and Thomson & Thompson also debut in the book, which is pretty notable. It was also the only book I owned. The library had all the others so I checked 'em all out and read them over a summer.

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Offline CosmicCastaway

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2011, 12:08:47 pm »


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
Unlimited Continues:
http://unlimitedcontinues.wordpress.com/2012/08/18/favorite-five-video-game-ninjas/

For this edition of Unlimited Continues I share five of my favorite video game ninjas, three of which are SEGA characters!

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Comics and Graphic Novel General Discussion!
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2011, 05:09:32 am »
For someone who wants something more grounded in reality, has anyone read Maus?

It's one of the most moving, powerful books I've ever read, it's absolutely brilliant.


Tells the story of Speigleman's father surviving Nazi concentration camps.
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