the disease of re release

[semmie]

sega has been re releasing many games in hd. the only one worth tho is yakuza one and 2 due to the fact that many gamers just formerly found out that such game existed.
but when we speak in common we have to admit that it doesnt do good.

it does good in terms of earning money and im happy they do.
steam jetset radio is doing good on pc steam.

my statement really is that i see these videos on utube where people get hyped up over donic adv 2.
come on guys we played it on dreamcast back te back

[Barry the Nomad]

I rarely do this, but I don't this this deserves a topic and I might lock it or merge it. This is something that could just as easily be discussed in the SA2 or JSR threads.

Really, you're just saying that not all rereleases are worthwhile because we already played them. That makes no sense on so many levels: not everybody has their Dreamcast or original games anymore, some people want to experience games again in HD with certain issues fixed (see my JSR review), JSR's sales are proving that this sort of thing can be profitable for SEGA.

Nothing wrong with getting excited about an HD rerelease, especially when its looking like they'll be quality rereleases. It's like telling people to not get excited about Jaws on blu-ray because they already saw it on VHS.

Anyway, if this topic blows up with discussion I'll let it remain open, otherwise I think it's best to merge it with the JSR thread.

[Centrale]

I think it could be a worthy topic on its own.  Re-releases have become more and more common over the past decade.  Periodically I hear some people complain that they wouldn't spend money on games they've already got in some prior form in their collection, but the simple fact is that not everyone already has them.  Also, when they're done well, as these new Sega Heritage releases seem to be, they bring a lot of new interest to the older titles.  In particular, features like improved controls and the behind-the-scenes documentaries demonstrate that these are projects that have been undertaken with some care and respect for both the past and the present.  And lastly, I think there is some hope (at least among the fans) that the re-releases will demonstrate that there is a market for continuing the series with new releases.

[Randroid]

If the right title are chosen then re-releases are a godsend.

Improved Graphics
Upgraded or Customizable Controls
No Disk Media required

I can only dream of a re-release of Burning Rangers and Gunvalkyrie. So I'm all for Sega Heritage.

[semmie]

I think it could be a worthy topic on its own.  Re-releases have become more and more common over the past decade.  Periodically I hear some people complain that they wouldn't spend money on games they've already got in some prior form in their collection, but the simple fact is that not everyone already has them.  Also, when they're done well, as these new Sega Heritage releases seem to be, they bring a lot of new interest to the older titles.  In particular, features like improved controls and the behind-the-scenes documentaries demonstrate that these are projects that have been undertaken with some care and respect for both the past and the present.  And lastly, I think there is some hope (at least among the fans) that the re-releases will demonstrate that there is a market for continuing the series with new releases.

those docs are easy to find on utube. the only difference is hd.
not much extra to it. i play sonic on dreamcast with just as much joy as hd. it doesnt add up dont you think?

instead of rereleasing which equals lazyness. the could bring out shenmue 3.
they launched all the yakuzas as well. hw much more is shenmue3.

i sense illogical strategys. but this is just so far i know from my lnowledge ofcourse i am not the major chief of sega

[CosmicCastaway]

Actually I think an HD Collection of the Shenmue games would garner interest in the series and could make way for Shenmue 3. I unfortunately have never played the Shenmue titles, but if SEGA ever re-released them with an HD upgrade I would be one of the first to buy it.
Like Barry pointed out semmie, some of us don't have a Dreamcast anymore and it's been years since I played Jet Set Radio. I've also never been able to play NiGHTS: Into Dreams so I am supremely excited for re-release as well.  I wouldn't call what SEGA is doing lazy, because if Jet Set Radio HD is anything to go by they are putting real effort into these games in the Heritage Collection.

[semmie]

Actually I think an HD Collection of the Shenmue games would garner interest in the series and could make way for Shenmue 3. I unfortunately have never played the Shenmue titles, but if SEGA ever re-released them with an HD upgrade I would be one of the first to buy it.
Like Barry pointed out semmie, some of us don't have a Dreamcast anymore and it's been years since I played Jet Set Radio. I've also never been able to play NiGHTS: Into Dreams so I am supremely excited for re-release as well.  I wouldn't call what SEGA is doing lazy, because if Jet Set Radio HD is anything to go by they are putting real effort into these games in the Heritage Collection.

u have a point there. i allready agree that a hd version of yakuza and shenmue are worth since it is epic.
but as for the rest like the genesis genre. theyv done that so many times. and nowadays everybody knows them emulators . emulators homebrew work better then the ios official releases of sonic. which is not only a shame but the games also were released so many times. and no one even bothers anymore.

sega does not know when to stop you get me?
and dont get surprised when ps5 or xbox4000 comes out and then again ull see sonic adventure coming out wih sonic with a different tail.

really the message is when d they stop?

[Aki-at]

People may have played x and y game during a certain time but they may have lost the game, sold the console etc so people will always have the need for a new version if circumstances requires them to do. The success of Ico, Ratchet, JSR etc re-releases shows as such, so does the continued success of say, Sonic 1 and 2 on mobile phones.

instead of rereleasing which equals lazyness. the could bring out shenmue 3.
they launched all the yakuzas as well. hw much more is shenmue3.

Re-released = a few hundred of thousands of pounds, if even that to re-release.
Shenmue 3 = Above and beyond $70 million to make in this day and age, perhaps even above $100 million.

It's not being lazy, it's business sense, SEGA does not have the resources or money to make a Shenmue 3 these days, Yakuza on the other hand, is a very successful and cheap in comparison to Shenmue. Infact I doubt there is many publishers willing to spend over $100 million for any franchise that will make only a million or two in sales. That sort of budget is saved for the likes of GTA, Call of Duty or any other series that can sell over 5 million copies in a short space of time.

[semmie]

People may have played x and y game during a certain time but they may have lost the game, sold the console etc so people will always have the need for a new version if circumstances requires them to do. The success of Ico, Ratchet, JSR etc re-releases shows as such, so does the continued success of say, Sonic 1 and 2 on mobile phones.

Re-released = a few hundred of thousands of pounds, if even that to re-release.
Shenmue 3 = Above and beyond $70 million to make in this day and age, perhaps even above $100 million.

It's not being lazy, it's business sense, SEGA does not have the resources or money to make a Shenmue 3 these days, Yakuza on the other hand, is a very successful and cheap in comparison to Shenmue. Infact I doubt there is many publishers willing to spend over $100 million for any franchise that will make only a million or two in sales. That sort of budget is saved for the likes of GTA, Call of Duty or any other series that can sell over 5 million copies in a short space of time.

1.
when speaking about bussiness this is only a good strategy for a limited amount of time. the mass allready notices that sega is rereleasing over and over again.
2. the games that are re released ae not even made by the so called remakers(hd aint really remaking) tomb raider made a real remake.(just to use tomb raider 1 as example)
3. so the new so called developers are being given ranks and honor givings for something that was out for a long time.
4. yes there are many people that didnt play those games. but u can sense a rerelase coming soon AGAIN.
5. at the end of days sega has more re releases then really new games.
yakuza 5 is a part of previous yakuzas. rome total war is a part of the previous game. so is the sonic racing game. we get hyped up yeah. but when it comes down to it it is just like the previous part. sonic riders 1 was good all the others were sort of the same right?
6. ok lets not exagerate. as a sega fan i admire valkyria. resonane of fate. vanquish. binairy domain etc.
i dont wanna sound like sega is messing up

but lemme just say that sega should be open to critics.
i told this over and over again that we the sega fans are the most forgiving fans. you will never find a nintendo fan so die hard as a sega fan. i can tell.
but regardless that, sega should really get bck on track.

speaking against myself there is nothing wrong about next parts of a trilogy. like for example where is sonic adventure 3. i like that better then sonic heroes etc..


im getting off topic.
but rereleasing is just lame.
i only agree for shenmue and yakuza 1 and 2 cause it such a hyped up game that many peeps wanna play. but as for sa1 or sa2. and lets not forget sa1 should be shaming since u couldn t use the whole screen to play it. and on the dreamcast and gamecube u could.

i dont want no rereleases. just new games or next parts of a chain of succefull games

count out sonic 4 and his 2 episodes. that just aint sonic. y oh my i miss u genesis

[Barry the Nomad]

Why is it that all of a sudden you're attacking the notion that these are "remakes"?

A quick word search of this topic, and the only time the term "remake" is used (before this post) is in your own post attacking those who claim the HD rereleases are "remakes".

We all know these aren't remakes, nobody is claiming that they are, so now you're just arguing with yourself. Perhaps you read "remake" on another forum?

To go through your points:

1.
when speaking about bussiness this is only a good strategy for a limited amount of time. the mass allready notices that sega is rereleasing over and over again.

1. Totally disagree. Rereleases are a good business strategy if they are (A) done well and (B) done sparingly. I don't think SEGA is shooting their wad this year in regards to rereleases. We had the HotD rereleases earlier this year, in Summer we had the Vintage Collections, and in the Fall we have the Heritage titles. All of these were done very well and they have been released at a nice pace. I don't think "the masses" are tired of this, and if they ARE noticing a trend of quality rereleases from SEGA, I'd say this is a good thing.

2. the games that are re released ae not even made by the so called remakers(hd aint really remaking) tomb raider made a real remake.(just to use tomb raider 1 as example)

2. Ignoring this, since it is the "remake" argument that does not exist.

3. so the new so called developers are being given ranks and honor givings for something that was out for a long time.

3. First off, I had no clue we had insider knowledge of how the dev teams rereleasing these titles are being treated within SEGA. Are they being given "ranks and honors"? Hell, given the quality of these rereleases I say they deserve the praise and SEGA should have a team/teams dedicated to giving us quality rereleases. Next year I want more Vintage Collections (we know Toe Jam & Earl is coming) as well as three more Hertiage titles. My fingers are crossed for a Saturn title (Burning Rangers? Panzer Dragoon 1&2?), Shenmue and Skies of Arcadia.

4. yes there are many people that didnt play those games. but u can sense a rerelase coming soon AGAIN.

4. This point makes no sense to me. So "yes there are people that didnt play the releases", but they know that more are on the way? How is that a negative? The rereleases have potential buyers who have never played the titles, those potential buyers hear from fellow SEGA fans that the rereleases are being handled well, and they know more are on the way. Those are all positives.

5. at the end of days sega has more re releases then really new games.
yakuza 5 is a part of previous yakuzas. rome total war is a part of the previous game. so is the sonic racing game. we get hyped up yeah. but when it comes down to it it is just like the previous part. sonic riders 1 was good all the others were sort of the same right?

5. Yup! And you know why? Because rereleases cost less than new titles. Of course we are still getting new titles, but no they are not 1:1 with the rereleases, nor should they be. I'd prefer a handful of really good new titles and a bunch of really good rereleases to a bunch of so-so new titles and a handful of rereleases. There are more DVDs and blu-rays released every year than there are new movies in theaters, but this is not a negative.

6. ok lets not exagerate. as a sega fan i admire valkyria. resonane of fate. vanquish. binairy domain etc.
i dont wanna sound like sega is messing up

6. Thats great if you love those games, I love some of them too. But they have nothing to do with the rereleases.

like for example where is sonic adventure 3. i like that better then sonic heroes etc..

This is a completely different topic, but I think the "we want SA3! Where is SA3!" is complete bullshit. Sonic had numerous 3D titles since SA2, many of which were SA3 all but in name. Releasing a title NOW that is SA3 would make no sense at all. The series continued since SA2, unlike other SEGA IPs that have yet to have any new titles. SA3 doesn't exist and should never exist because we already had Heroes, Shadow, '06, Unleashed, Colors and Generations. The core concepts of SA1&2 continued on in all of those titles. If Chao gardens, treasure hinting and mech shooters are why people want an SA3, I say they need to find another series. Because Sonic is none of those things, and I cannot see the series bringing those concepts back.

and lets not forget sa1 should be shaming since u couldn t use the whole screen to play it. and on the dreamcast and gamecube u could.

I agree that SA1's rerelease lacking widescreen hurt it. I hated that it lacked that. But the Dreamcast and Gamecube versions were 4:3 just like the rerelease of SA1. "Filling the screen" is not the same as the term "widescreen".

i dont want no rereleases. just new games or next parts of a chain of succefull games

SEGA can't function like that, and rereleases are a great way to get SEGA some easy, but well deserved, money. Would you rather SEGA bleed themselves dry pushing out countless new IPs and sequels to niche titles, many of which will never sell well. Or SEGA give us great rereleases, a handful of great new titles, and trim the fat that are licensed shit like Golden Compass, Marvel titles and shitty titles like Conduit and Alpha Protocol.

count out sonic 4 and his 2 episodes. that just aint sonic. y oh my i miss u genesis

Another argument for a different thread, these are digital titles but are not relreleases. Love them or hate them (I enjoyed Ep I well enough and really liked Ep II) these ARE the sequels and are new titles from SEGA. we'll have to wait and see where SEGA goes with titles like Sonic 4. Either an episode 3 and a new Ecco are on the way in this format, or they'll end it with Ep II and leave the digital realm to rereleases and third party games like Hell Yeah.

[semmie]

Why is it that all of a sudden you're attacking the notion that these are "remakes"?

A quick word search of this topic, and the only time the term "remake" is used (before this post) is in your own post attacking those who claim the HD rereleases are "remakes".

We all know these aren't remakes, nobody is claiming that they are, so now you're just arguing with yourself. Perhaps you read "remake" on another forum?

To go through your points:

1. Totally disagree. Rereleases are a good business strategy if they are (A) done well and (B) done sparingly. I don't think SEGA is shooting their wad this year in regards to rereleases. We had the HotD rereleases earlier this year, in Summer we had the Vintage Collections, and in the Fall we have the Heritage titles. All of these were done very well and they have been released at a nice pace. I don't think "the masses" are tired of this, and if they ARE noticing a trend of quality rereleases from SEGA, I'd say this is a good thing.

2. Ignoring this, since it is the "remake" argument that does not exist.

3. First off, I had no clue we had insider knowledge of how the dev teams rereleasing these titles are being treated within SEGA. Are they being given "ranks and honors"? Hell, given the quality of these rereleases I say they deserve the praise and SEGA should have a team/teams dedicated to giving us quality rereleases. Next year I want more Vintage Collections (we know Toe Jam & Earl is coming) as well as three more Hertiage titles. My fingers are crossed for a Saturn title (Burning Rangers? Panzer Dragoon 1&2?), Shenmue and Skies of Arcadia.

4. This point makes no sense to me. So "yes there are people that didnt play the releases", but they know that more are on the way? How is that a negative? The rereleases have potential buyers who have never played the titles, those potential buyers hear from fellow SEGA fans that the rereleases are being handled well, and they know more are on the way. Those are all positives.

5. Yup! And you know why? Because rereleases cost less than new titles. Of course we are still getting new titles, but no they are not 1:1 with the rereleases, nor should they be. I'd prefer a handful of really good new titles and a bunch of really good rereleases to a bunch of so-so new titles and a handful of rereleases. There are more DVDs and blu-rays released every year than there are new movies in theaters, but this is not a negative.

6. Thats great if you love those games, I love some of them too. But they have nothing to do with the rereleases.

This is a completely different topic, but I think the "we want SA3! Where is SA3!" is complete bullshit. Sonic had numerous 3D titles since SA2, many of which were SA3 all but in name. Releasing a title NOW that is SA3 would make no sense at all. The series continued since SA2, unlike other SEGA IPs that have yet to have any new titles. SA3 doesn't exist and should never exist because we already had Heroes, Shadow, '06, Unleashed, Colors and Generations. The core concepts of SA1&2 continued on in all of those titles. If Chao gardens, treasure hinting and mech shooters are why people want an SA3, I say they need to find another series. Because Sonic is none of those things, and I cannot see the series bringing those concepts back.

I agree that SA1's rerelease lacking widescreen hurt it. I hated that it lacked that. But the Dreamcast and Gamecube versions were 4:3 just like the rerelease of SA1. "Filling the screen" is not the same as the term "widescreen".

SEGA can't function like that, and rereleases are a great way to get SEGA some easy, but well deserved, money. Would you rather SEGA bleed themselves dry pushing out countless new IPs and sequels to niche titles, many of which will never sell well. Or SEGA give us great rereleases, a handful of great new titles, and trim the fat that are licensed shit like Golden Compass, Marvel titles and shitty titles like Conduit and Alpha Protocol.

Another argument for a different thread, these are digital titles but are not relreleases. Love them or hate them (I enjoyed Ep I well enough and really liked Ep II) these ARE the sequels and are new titles from SEGA. we'll have to wait and see where SEGA goes with titles like Sonic 4. Either an episode 3 and a new Ecco are on the way in this format, or they'll end it with Ep II and leave the digital realm to rereleases and third party games like Hell Yeah.

without saying to much. most of the time you were right. and the way i talk has always been like that. sometimes i just stray away from the original topic. but my message stands. re releasing over and over again is just lame.

do u se those mofo,s of crash bandicoor releasin cras1 2 3 again?
do u see mario doing such a thing. a game needs to maintain his originality. yes there are occasions like yakuza shenmue jsr. but the fear again is the exploitation of these games.

and sorry it just aint right to make a press conference for sa2. that is just ridiculous

then agian im a sega fan dont get it wrong. this is just an inside circle critic given to my fellow sega billy boys

[Barry the Nomad]

without saying to much. most of the time you were right. and the way i talk has always been like that. sometimes i just stray away from the original topic. but my message stands. re releasing over and over again is just lame.

do u se those mofo,s of crash bandicoor releasin cras1 2 3 again?
do u see mario doing such a thing. a game needs to maintain his originality. yes there are occasions like yakuza shenmue jsr. but the fear again is the exploitation of these games.

and sorry it just aint right to make a press conference for sa2. that is just ridiculous

then agian im a sega fan dont get it wrong. this is just an inside circle critic given to my fellow sega billy boys

I don't know much about Crash Bandicoot, but I'm certain that if it got an HD, widescreen rerelease it would sell very well. Crach may not have had rereleases, but a ton of other publishers do it. This isn't something exclusive to SEGA. EA does it a lot, Sony does it a lot, Nintendo does it on the Virtual Console and via anniversary releases like Kirby and Mario. I'd argue, however, that SEGA has moved towards the top tier of rerelease quality. These aren't ROMs, they're proper ports with tune ups and adjustments. Look at Sega Rally Online Arcade, After Burner Climax, Daytona USA and Outrun Online Arcade. Those are all rereleases and they kick serious ass. I would love to see more of those, more Vintage Collection and more Heritage Collection. If the games are good, and the quality of the ports is high, then I'm all for it.

As for a Sonic Adventure 2 press conference, that never happened unless there is an event that I'm unaware of. All I can think of are press releases (way different than a conference), demos at conventions and trade shows and the teaser shown at Sonic Boom, which was a proper Sonic event and the teaser itself was simply a bonus for the night. None of this was elaborate, and it was equal to the press any other game has received, rerelease or otherwise.

[ROJM]

My two pennies, You both have good points but Semmie, your argument isn't really thought out and you're looking through a fans eyes, Barry, your argument is thought out but you too are looking at a fans eyes.

Do Sega rerelease a lot? Yes in my opinion but why do they? Simply as Barry said buisness acumen. A company like Sega will look at new markets and the sales data on the systems that they are currently making titles for.  Now each system sales boost will automatically mean new users and that's what they would be going after(whatever the reason why a system has had a boost in sales is irrevalvent) Now each modern system will have an online service and Sega will check the data to see how many new users have signed up on it and they would act accordingly. So now we have old games released on the online services of whatever system you own.
Now there's been a port of a Sega game on nearly every Sony Microsoft and Nintendo system since Sega became a third party in 2002 and even before that. At each event the games released on for example that system were for those users for that generation. Previously they were all released on disc format, this gen its all downloads. Then of course the phones markets are now huge and theres a chance many people haven't played these games before but are downloading games to play on their phone. As Barry said some of these games are quite good sellers and we may see Sega cashing in on that when they decide to create or publish new games based on classic games like ECCO or TOE JAM AND EARL.

Another part of it concerning the DC titles is that some of these games were expensive to make in the first place and a lot of them didn't make their investment back on the engine designed to create these games. So it makes sense to rerelease some of these DC titles to get back some investment but of course they have to touch them up a bit like what were seeing with the HD release. In some cases there could even be corrections like if the first YAKUZA game was released there's a possibility that if released here they will go with the subtitle version to fit in with the other games rather than the hollywood cast version that dented the first game.(mainly because of repeat fees but we will see if that comes to pass or not)

My problem is that Sega sometimes lacks imagination when it comes to some rereleases or better yet ports. HOUSE OF THE DEAD 2 has had so many versions and ports, and so has the third title. I'd like to see another port of the first HOTD game besides that brave attempt of one for the saturn and the rubbish PC version. Rerelease titles that never came out in the west like SHINING FORCE 3(but they'll need Camelot's co operation for that)or the SEGA AGES 2500 series like the PHANTASY STAR GENERATION 1 and 2 games. For a company that has a reputation of spearheading technology and innovative games, Sega has always been a company very reserved and conservative to what they make available to fans outside of Japan. In this day and age that doesn't really make sense anymore since half the game si'm talking about isnt a game that would be lost in translation via culture differences like HOTD mobile games and others that could easliy be transfered to the west. I just hope sega does things a bit different this time.

[semmie]

yes i am talking like a fan. but that is actually an important factor.
sega was known as the inovator. and still is. the rereleases dont neccessary fuck up the whole deal (excuse me my language).
but the reason why i talk full of concerns that it happend back to back.
do yu actuallt know how happy i am when vanquish came out or binairy? and sadly those games are becoming an occasion. just look at us rojm.

we used to enjoy the new games.

but while talking about sega i figured out that these days getting good games is hard.
to stray from the path again
assassins creed one was cool. so was 2 ok then the repetetive began.
final fantasy 13 and 13 2 are so lame in comparison with 7
binairy domain is kinda like vanquish. all fps are like the same. and even the science fiction ones kinda copy the halo style in some ways.

being lucky you could go one generation back and play dreamfall the journey.

and that is when things become excited.
skies of arcadia
shenmue
phantasy star 4 genesis
crusader centy.

these games were totally of the hook. but you dont see a secons part.
so tell me is it just me being a fan. or am i just talking the truth

come on get of of it. just think of it.
and then we see all those re releases. ok yeah its good but think of it in a long term.
it cant last like this.

[ROJM]

yes i am talking like a fan. but that is actually an important factor.
sega was known as the inovator. and still is. the rereleases dont neccessary fuck up the whole deal (excuse me my language).
but the reason why i talk full of concerns that it happend back to back.
do yu actuallt know how happy i am when vanquish came out or binairy? and sadly those games are becoming an occasion. just look at us rojm.

we used to enjoy the new games.

but while talking about sega i figured out that these days getting good games is hard.
to stray from the path again
assassins creed one was cool. so was 2 ok then the repetetive began.
final fantasy 13 and 13 2 are so lame in comparison with 7
binairy domain is kinda like vanquish. all fps are like the same. and even the science fiction ones kinda copy the halo style in some ways.

being lucky you could go one generation back and play dreamfall the journey.

and that is when things become excited.
skies of arcadia
shenmue
phantasy star 4 genesis
crusader centy.

these games were totally of the hook. but you dont see a secons part.
so tell me is it just me being a fan. or am i just talking the truth

come on get of of it. just think of it.
and then we see all those re releases. ok yeah its good but think of it in a long term.
it cant last like this.

As i said before you are looking through a fans eyes in the sense you are both looking at it how it relates to you not to how it relates buisness wise to Sega. For example BaryNomad mentioned he hasn't or many people dont have the systems that these games originally appeared on anymore, so he needs to replace them especially when you consider that many of sega systems particularly the CD based ones break down easily, any Sega gamer that still is around would want them replaced or play an old classic using modern tech like HD. You however are seeing it as release after release of old games. But if you have been keeping up with Sega as a third party you'd be use to that because of the rerelaeases in the form of compilations, collections and now digital. Well the point is not everyone keeps up with Sega and the games were talking about are really spread across two generations of consoles and now the digital generation of systems where the liklihood is that many new customers and users would have brought those systems and may never have played Sega games. So it makes buisness sense to release these titles no and again. But because you've seen them release with every generation you're over exagerrating the situation of the rereleases. Its not like Sega has never done this before when they had their own systems or did the SEGA AGES series pass you by? And dont mention the DC because to my recollection this would really be the second time Sega has raided the DC libary in a collection format, and judging from the first o0ne they needed to redo it again. None of the rereleases are overshadowing their current new releases, they never have and they never will. You do know the team behind JSR HD game is behind the new title called DEMON TRIBES, right? I'd be more concerned that Sega wants to pass crummy IOS games as the majority of their release schedule instead of proper systems.