Passionate SEGA Discussion Topic for TA & ROJM and anyone else

[Team Andromeda]

You constantly go on how Sega should now make new IP Blockbuster games that are Multi Plattform , yet the wierd lists you make for Saturn games are anything but.

It’s quite simple back it those days SEGA was making games on its own Hardware so there was no calls for games to be multi and the quality bar and output from SEGA Japan in the Saturn and DC days was 2nd to none in terms of tech and making great games.
SEGA Japan is a shadow of it’s self in those days or even the X-Box and Cube days .

Outside of Panzer Dragoon and NiGHTS, none of the games were stuff were people are going "yep! that's a classic Sega game,

? I could make a huge list of what gamers were saying was a classic game , not least SEGA Rally and VF II games not only AAA in gameplay terms but also also pushing the technical bar in Tech .

You mention stuff like WSB, WWS, DecAthelete, Sega always made these kind of sport games

? There was still plenty of SEGA sports games that only came out in Japan for the Saturn , but the point is that they were quality and that's the difference . Compare Decathlete to Sonic Vs Mario and its a bit of a non contest and what happened to the quality SEGA Japan used to pump out , it even made one of the best series of Football games with its World Wide series on the Saturn and that's gone these days .

And then stuff like Dragon Force, random JRPG that people sure as hell don't associate much with Sega's core OP, that was just picked up to be finished from a different company

 No different from Nintendo and Pokemon and it doesn't change the fact that Dragon Force was a In-House games for most of its production , the sequel made In-House and then a lot of the team moved to make Skies of Arcadia for the home. Dragon Force is a SEGA game alright 

There are still many Handheld-RPG's from Sega that are more made with secondary companies, and if they don't count because they are on handhelds...moot point. Most big JRPG's are on Handhelds now. Dragon Quest 9 is on the DS

And that's risk taking ?.

Btw Dragon Quest 10 isn't on a HH and the likes of Ni No Kunji are getting rave reviews and again SEGA even though it has a great team and tech is no-where when in comes to RPG's on the main consoles

Astal, was just a random Sega made game with mediocore reception, much like a Super Monkey Ball title today. Burning Rangers was a good game and all but a one-off IP that didn't get much attention...they made 2 of those last year

Astal was a quality game with brilliant graphics , Monkey Ball used to be quality once and even offer some stunning graphics and sound  , but the series has been run into the ground and while MB Vita is a return to form of sorts , its still no-where near the mark of MB and MB II on the Cube .

Carry on with the defence of the new SEGA. Everyone else with out their blinkers, will know SEGA Japan is a shadow of what it once was and can do really better




 

[Trippled]

Okay comparing Astal to current Monkey Ball wasn't quite fair, but it was still a mediocore game. It got like 22/40 from Famitsu.

? I could make a huge list of what gamers were saying was a classic game , not least SEGA Rally and VF II games not only AAA in gameplay terms but also also pushing the technical bar in Tech

Of course they were classic games, but not just in the sense that people wouldn't wish sequels/or games in the same vein of them 10 years later, like people do with Shenmue, Jet Set etc. etc.. Like Virtua Fighter and Sega Rally...we got next-gen updates of those.

No different from Nintendo and Pokemon and it doesn't change the fact that Dragon Force was a In-House games for most of its production , the sequel made In-House and then a lot of the team moved to make Skies of Arcadia for the home. Dragon Force is a SEGA game alright 

Well yes, the Saturn had alot of JRPG's. But Sega have been making a lot of those still.

And who the hell is talking about risk taking? DQ10 is a MMO, and Nino Kuni on the PS3 is a one of a kind game that we won't see for a long time, it's just that Sega had their turn with VC1 earlier in the Generation.

Sega has been releasing 7th Dragon, Shining and Valkyria games. On handhelds yes, but that's generally where all the JRPG's are now. If you know anything about them, you know this has been the natural case for every company and they are definitly not on PS360.

[Team Andromeda]

Okay comparing Astal to current Monkey Ball wasn't quite fair, but it was still a mediocore game. It got like 22/40 from Famitsu

Famitsu the mag where you 'buy' reviews, Lets all remember the scores they've given out to the likes of Shadow the Hedgehog . Non contest and while Astal was a simple platformer at heart: it was a quality one; one with to this very day stunning graphics and sound and almost marks one of the 1st games that Ryuta Ueda worked on for SEGA.

Shenmue, Jet Set etc. etc.. Like Virtua Fighter and Sega Rally...we got next-gen updates of those

We've no update to JSRF or Shenmue (and for Shenmue I understand the reasons) SEGA Rally was poor and played nothing like the Arcade series at all and wasn't fit to carry the Rally name .

Well yes, the Saturn had alot of JRPG's. But Sega have been making a lot of those still.

Hardly any for the major consoles and its not like others also don't make RPG for the HH as well as the major consoles . I'm mean Namco have been making a far better go at it , with some quality RPG's on both the PS3 and 360

And who the hell is talking about risk taking

Nagoshi-san.

If you know anything about them, you know this has been the natural case for every company and they are definitly not on PS360.

Never heard of Namco ?. On the 360 they given us Eternal Sonata, Tales Of Vesperia , what about Square ? How have given 360 owners FF 13, FF 13- 2 and soon to be Lighting Returns , never mind what both Square and Namco have given PS3 owners as well as upcoming titles

I think you find I do know about RPG's . SEGA  Japan yet again is nowhere on the main consoles and that's the case for so many genre's now its depressing

[Trippled]

You misunderstood me, JSR, Shenmue are the type of games, that people were crying for updates for, not that they have been updated.

Still the whole point of Square as a company is to bring the the qoutessentail JRPG to consoles, and on  that aspect they failed.

Namco's Tales Team is like Sega's Yakuza Team...it's their prominent release and franchise.

But yeah with Eternal Sonata, they basicilly had one more RPG more I guess...now we're being pedantic.

Also compared to other companies, it isn't Sega's job to be an RPG powerhouse...they are more like Capcom where they make a variety of different games.

And I think Nagoshi was in general talking about their published titles as well, no publisher treats their in--house teams as different...
And as a publisher Sega has been making alot of risks. They poured alot of money into Platinum games, RoF and some interresting Western productions.

[Team Andromeda]

JRPG to consoles, and on  that aspect they failed.

Seeing as one of their games sells better than most of SEGA's major IP put-together I wouldn't agree. They've made and brought a number of RPG's to the major consoles and are ready to bring 1 more.

Namco's Tales Team is like Sega's Yakuza Team

To a point I guess

it isn't Sega's job to be an RPG powerhouse...they are more like Capcom where they make a variety of different games.

But its not RPG's its a whole host of genre's and there's a lack of games where SEGA Japan is a player , where it can boast million selling IP on the 360 and PS3 . That's the trouble , all very well taking the safe route of just looking to Japan and the HH, not great for the bigger picture and getting the Teams right for current gen pipe lines (never mind next gen)

They poured alot of money into Platinum games

That is not a risk, it was SEGA trying to take the easy way out, instead of letting it's In-House Teams make those sorts of games and take the risks . The deal has totally backfired too , Plantium gets all the credit and new Publishers , while SEGA takes the flak of the PS3 port of Bayonetta and is left with poor sales and its own Teams just watching on...

SEGA done a bit of good and make the right moves to get Sonic and PSO back on form, but SEGA Japan needs to up its game massively and to start get far more of an active roll in console games development (non HH) in terms of output and new IP

[Trippled]

That is not a risk, it was SEGA trying to take the easy way out, instead of letting it's In-House Teams make those sorts of games and take the risks .

Well, they could have done absolutely nothing as well. All their in-house teams would still be occupied.

[ROJM]

@ Trip
I'm afraid the person you're debating has a biased opinion when it comes to the Saturn era. Let's look at the facts of it. The Saturn was a good console if you were into arcade ports or core gaming. However if you just wanted to play games in a general basis it wasn't the system you could get into. Sega pratically ignored half their market by not trying to continue the successes they had with the MD/Genesis. That's effectivly killed the Saturn when people realised they weren't seeing any titles that were popular on the Genesis having updates on the Saturn.

As for the sports games. Sega Japan was also adopting certain elements from Sega Of america during that time. Up to 94, Sega didn't have a sports divison but around the Saturn's launch and first few years, SOJ adopted the Sega sports brand and started to release sports games using the Sega sports brand. That is why Deacthelte was released on Saturn to make up the numbers as was putting the brand on that Soccer RPG they had made and so on.

Original IP:When it comes down to it, The only requested IP from the Saturn era was NIGHTS that a lot of people/sega fans wanted to see again, SAKURA TAISEN and one oor two games that started life on this system was getting regular sequels on the next system the DC anyway. After that BURNING RANGERS and PANZER DRAGOON? No one was really shouting from the roof tops for sequels to these titles compared to the many DC IP like SHENMUE and JSR.
So TA using VF2 and SEGA RALLY as a point doesn't work since they are not saturn titles to begin with but arcade ports. You cut out the ports and only a few games are left from Sega and many of them are forgettable. ASTEL and CLOCKWORK KNIGHT, let alone BUG! are just not on high on a sega  fans list to see a return of. Compared to the demands of the return of franchises from other Sega systems.


The point of Platinum is a moot point. You can say that about EVERY other second party that Sega worked with who moved on to work with other publishers. It not like Platinum stabbed Sega in the back and left them in the lurch either. The results is mixed. Two were succesful one moderate and two flops. Ultimatly the actual aim of these particular games to strenghen Sega in the west was a mixed bag for the sales of BAYONETTA was bigger in Japan than it was anywhere else. 

[Team Andromeda]

All their in-house teams would still be occupied

Yeah... I mean the Plantium gang get to work Bay II , Wonderful 101  , while the main gang in SEGA get to work on a iOS game and maybe another Yakuza game .

Sega didn't have a sports divison

 SEGA Japan for many years had lines that would make sports games . Who do you think made the likes of Great Football on the Master System ? Wasn't one of Yu Suzuki 1st games for SEGA a sports title ?

That is why Deacthelte was released on Saturn to make up the numbers as was putting the brand on that Soccer RPG they had made and so on.

? It was AM#3 bringing a Hit Arcade title to the home and also to cash in on the 1996 Olympics . SEGA would always use Arcade games to help make up the numbers, none more so than with the Dreamcast .

The only requested IP from the Saturn era was NIGHTS

This is not about asking for old IP to be brought , but the difference in output and quality and on that score SEGA is a shadow of the corp that made so many In-House classics on the Saturn and DC and the corp that made the likes of Orta, JSRF, F-Zero , MB on the Cube.

The point of Platinum is a moot point. You can say that about EVERY other second party that Sega worked with who moved on to work with other publishers. It not like Platinum stabbed Sega in the back and left them in the lurch either

I always said SEGA should have let it's own Team go wild and the money spent on them. Platinum have gone and left SEGA with poor sales and its In-House teams have learnt little , while Platinum name with the press and gamers just continues to grow and the Teams put the skills learnt to new IP for Nintendo .



 

[ROJM]

Yeah... I mean the Plantium gang get to work Bay II , Wonderful 101  , while the main gang in SEGA get to work on a iOS game and maybe another Yakuza game .

You're point is what? Sega's fault? Yes funny because you said they weren't focusing on digital when clearly they are and now you're complaining about it? Typical.

SEGA Japan for many years had lines that would make sports games . Who do you think made the likes of Great Football on the Master System ? Wasn't one of Yu Suzuki 1st games for SEGA a sports title ?

No they didn't. Sega japan didn't create a fully fledged sports division until the mid to late nineties. When they did that's when SOJ adopted the American Sega sports game to establish the Japanese side of titles that they were making. That was the reason why DECATHLETE was ported to the Saturn in the first place to help establish the line. Using the fact they made sports games when they never ever had a line that focused on any particular style of game in the 70s and 80s just goes to show that you haven't a clue on what you are saying.

? It was AM#3 bringing a Hit Arcade title to the home and also to cash in on the 1996 Olympics . SEGA would always use Arcade games to help make up the numbers, none more so than with the Dreamcast .

I'm talking about the situation with DECATHLETE. Sega doesn't always bring their arcade games over to console.

This is not about asking for old IP to be brought , but the difference in output and quality and on that score SEGA is a shadow of the corp that made so many In-House classics on the Saturn and DC and the corp that made the likes of Orta, JSRF, F-Zero , MB on the Cube.

it is actually. You like to make out the Saturn was all so special and important but the truth is it doesn't have the IP that many Sega fans want to see return in a hurry. That's a fact. Deal with it. Regardless on how good these titles are. There's been many good SOJ titles since their third party run has started yet many of them haven't gained legendary status either among the majority of Segafandom. If anything the third party run is similar to the saturn run when a clear division between SOJ and the west started up and SOJ became too focused on the japanese market and leaving everyone else to create games for the other markets outside japan. Which is exactly what's happening now.

I always said SEGA should have let it's own Team go wild and the money spent on them. Platinum have gone and left SEGA with poor sales and its In-House teams have learnt little , while Platinum name with the press and gamers just continues to grow and the Teams put the skills learnt to new IP for Nintendo

Not really. The partnership was fairly successful and their major games made money for Sega. The figures of the games clearly shows that. So your assessment of Platinum running off to Nintendo when the situation was a bit more complex than that is not only erroneous but juvenile as well.

[Centrale]

FINISH HIM

[Team Andromeda]

Yes funny because you said they weren't focusing on digital when clearly they are and now you're complaining about it

Well if SEGA Japan we brining out new games for both the PS3 and 360 in digital form you'll have a point. SEGA backing ditgial is more for brining their old IP and games to XBLA and PSN.

Sega japan didn't create a fully fledged sports division until the mid to late nineties

Until the 90's SEGA only ever had 2 teams one for the Arcade and the other for the consumer ; Within those teams they'll be different pipe lines and SEGA always had sports line right from the early 80's . Wasn't Yu Suzuki 1st game for SEGA a boxing game ?

That was the reason why DECATHLETE was ported to the Saturn in the first place to help establish the line

? It was porting a good selling Arcade game to the home and hoping to sell well on the back of the 1996 Olympics .

You like to make out the Saturn was all so special and important but the truth is it doesn't have the IP that many Sega fans want to see return in a hurry

Saturn is important because it marked the day when the  Arcade Teams started to handle the ports them self's and in the Saturn days SEGA imagine for quailty games and good tech was there for all to see. Not the case anymore ,instead people like you are endlessly defending them

The partnership was fairly successful and their major games made money for Sega.

Other than Bay was there a Platinum game that sold more than a million copies ?
Truth is Vanquish didn't sell that great, the likes of MadWorld, Nfinite Space and more so Anarchy Reigns total flops .

[Nameless 24]

Well Kodama's style of RPGs usually have closed endings. There wasn't really a hint of a sequel with some of the original PHANTASY STAR games either. They more than likely would have set it in the same world but used a diferent set of characters much like they did with VALKYRIA. As for sequels, to me the time has gone past for that now. It would have been better if they had a follow up when the series was still more fresh in peoples mind rather than leave it over a decade later. Many games specifically Sega games don't necessarly perform well when they get a sequel after a long absence. Sometimes its due to the anticipation and romanticised look of the original series that's built over the years that by the time a sequel comes out, the game doesn't measure up to what people has imagined or want it to be in their heads over the years. This is definatly what happened with PANZER DRAGOON and its xbox sequel.

As for BURNING RANGERS unless you count the mobile spin off game(which isn't what fans of the game would have expected or wanted)it could do with a strong sequel or makeover but then what would we end up with? What we got with the sequel to NIGHTS?

Yeah, I guess that was why Streets of Rage 4 was cancelled.

I had to laugh at the NiGHTS sequel end result. I did like it but when I compare it to the first game, it comes off as a questionable game.

I can imagine Sonic Team adding some gimmick in BR so it doesn't ever become fun, so good points there.

[ROJM]

Well if SEGA Japan we brining out new games for both the PS3 and 360 in digital form you'll have a point. SEGA backing ditgial is more for brining their old IP and games to XBLA and PSN.

At the moment but weve seen a lot of other new titles released digitally as well. Shifting focus to digital,not making much hardcopy titles as sega has stated. Only the biger franchises will remain being released as packages. As sega has mentioned in their dozen or so press releases as was mentioned in the news part of this site. Only one who doesn't know this is you.

Until the 90's SEGA only ever had 2 teams one for the Arcade and the other for the consumer ; Within those teams they'll be different pipe lines and SEGA always had sports line right from the early 80's . Wasn't Yu Suzuki 1st game for SEGA a boxing game ?

Again, they didn't have a sports divison or sports line until the nineties. Sports games was treated like anyother title that sega made, just another game to do. i know its hard to believe before the PSX but there was a time that sports games wasn't high on a gamers list.

? It was porting a good selling Arcade game to the home and hoping to sell well on the back of the 1996 Olympics .

Geez that's like saying that about 80percent of sega's games from the arcades. Most sega games did well because they were the dominant force in the arcades over two decades. DECATHLETE was used to measure the numbers because SOJ were focusing their own sports titles in to the Sega Sports brand for the japanese market and they didn't have enough of them. DECATHLETE wasn't ported because it happned to be a succesful game if that was the case we would have seen DESERT TANK which sold a hell lot more than that title put together and that game was way more expensive.

Saturn is important because it marked the day when the  Arcade Teams started to handle the ports them self's and in the Saturn days SEGA imagine for quailty games and good tech was there for all to see. Not the case anymore ,instead people like you are endlessly defending them

Saturn was important because its when Sega japan totally screwed up. It isn't memorable for the games to the majority of sega fans compared to genesis and DC.

Other than Bay was there a Platinum game that sold more than a million copies ?
Truth is Vanquish didn't sell that great, the likes of MadWorld, Nfinite Space and more so Anarchy Reigns total flops .

VANQUISH and BAYONETTA sold well, INFINITE SPACE was moderate, ANARCHY REIGNS and MADWORLD flopped. At first you were making out that they all flopped and now you changed your tune again. Anyway it wasn't worth Sega continuing the previous deal that they made which they didn't but it does appear they were going to go ahead with working on more titles until Sega was forced to cut back(once again) which left Nintendo in the wings to publish titles that may have ended up being Sega games and contracting with konami.

[ROJM]

Yeah, I guess that was why Streets of Rage 4 was cancelled.

I had to laugh at the NiGHTS sequel end result. I did like it but when I compare it to the first game, it comes off as a questionable game.

I can imagine Sonic Team adding some gimmick in BR so it doesn't ever become fun, so good points there.

SOR keeps getting canned over gaming politics. That's what happened in the saturn era, the DC eras, the XboxPs2 era and the current gen. It has a bad luck mojo over finances and market forces.

If Sega can get half the team back for any sequel or have a genuine good idea then they should bring it back. ORTA was a good solid game and it broke even but they didn't build on it and create a sequel. It may have had stronger sales and became a more familiar brand again. Two things hampered ORTA. It was living under the shadow of the third game which many people interested in this series really wanted another version of a PD RPG and that the Xbox games Sega was making wasn't making the impact that they should have done. But at least you can say with ORTA that you got something close to the original as some of the original staff was still involved. With NIGHTS only one of the original Sonic team was involved and it was the american branch of sonic team making the title. And they ruined it. I dunno if SOR digital was going to be good or crap,(looked ok) but i feel any direct game after a long absence should be done by SOJ and only SOJ and then let a western team do a version if you need it to be. That's why OVERKILL worked because it didn't step on the main HOTD series, it was clearly a spin off and the main series was still is still happening and being done by SOJ (considering the people involved with the main series were advisors to OVERKILL) A game like GOLDEN AXE BEAST RIDER however well we all know what happened there. A game of a series that hasn't been around for years and then they release a game which is really a spin off made by a sub division and not SOJ.

[Team Andromeda]

. Only the biger franchises will remain being released as packages

Every Big SEGA game will come on disc with the consoles (non HH).

Sports games was treated like anyother title that sega made, just another game to do

They had a sports line, until the 1990's and the massive sales of Madden and Fifa most companies didn't have a dedicated sports Team. With massive sales of both Sensible World of Soccer on the Amiga and the likes of Madden and Fifa on the Mega Drive, everyone started to take note and put sports games right at the top.

Geez that's like saying that about 80percent of sega's games from the arcades

Yep.
 SEGA was just doing what it always did and port a very successful coin up to the home and also hoping the gain sales on the back of the Olympics. Which is why no doubt the likes of konami brought Track and Field to the PS. 

DESERT TANK which sold a hell lot more than that title put together and that game was way more expensive.

Desert Tank wasn't more successful for starters . And that's overlooking how it wasn't to to gain any sales on the back of the Olympics . There was quite a few ST-V games that never made it to the Saturn . Decathlete did great in the Arcade and ok in the home, which is why you get a sequel 
to both the home and Arcades.

Saturn was important because its when Sega japan totally screwed up

No its just SEGA Japan best ever selling home console . I think you find it was SEGA America and Europe that screwed up with the 32X. SEGA Japan messed up by not making Sonic for the Saturn though.

VANQUISH and BAYONETTA sold well, INFINITE SPACE was moderate, ANARCHY REIGNS and MADWORLD flopped.

Please we all know Vanquish sales was poor not breaking the 1 million sales barrier for a Big Budget multi platform release is bad news . IS sold ok at the start in Japan it flopped everywhere else though .

Anyway it wasn't worth Sega continuing the previous deal that they made which they didn't

Hear we go your endless defence of SEGA. The deal was poor for SEGA and didn't work out and it's little wonder Platinum jumped ship or SEGA didn't even try for a new deal