Passionate SEGA Discussion Topic for TA & ROJM and anyone else

[ROJM]

Naka had long started his plans to leave the SEGA and ST before long before the game shipped . When the Sonic 06 was 1st shown off at E3 the game looked great and showed stunning tech. Sadly  SEGA had 2 Team working on totally different parts of the game and the producer all hoping their would magically merge together with no issues  and that's where the game fell apart

 

Sadly he failed to a get grip of the games budget and Team size and that's what good Producers do .

I'm talking about development for goodness sake. Naka was still part of the games development.
before he decided to leave so he's responsible for the mess, whether you like it or not.

And it was the only time he talked of the constant team changes at SEGA. And under Sammy how many Team changes have we had , how many Teams have their own separate names ?.

April right?, well June is when he obviously had the handle of the extent of the situation, i can understand that since most companies going through mergers wont get the bigger picture until it happens. But i concede he said it and you were correct.

It played and moved exactly liked the Arcade and sounded way better too (not just music but Sound effects) Sure clipping was a issue but that was cleaned up for the Pal versions and Remix had no issues what so ever .  The way you talk its like Sonic Adv had no issues and no clipping or bugs  with being rushed out, same for VF 3 and Rally II on the DC or the MD had a ace launch in Japan never mind the Thunder Blade had trouble out doing the PC Eng version . SEGA had a history on all it's consoles of rushing software out on its consoles.

First i never said i ever like d SONIC ADVENTURE. And you've known me long enough to know that. Second VF was a mess and i think you have your Saturn blinders on if you really believe that nonsense about it being better than the original arcade. And while its true about sega rushing games for launch, doesn't excuse the mess that is VF for saturn.

A lot of the  MD ports they weren't even handle In-House  . With the Saturn SEGA's AM Team got involved with porting the games themselves and going all out trying to perfectly emu the coin up gameplay and that was carried through with the DC.

But the quality of the ports was never in dispute. its the number of them that are.

Yep Key tiles like this and Sonic will always be disc based on the consoles . And I put to you that any big major PS3, 360 production by SEGA will come out on disc .

New IP or established IP. Sonic RGG and a few others yes. New IP, it doesn't seem to be the case.

2K and Rockstar are the same and if you want to compare westerns studios then fine, I'm comparing like for like and that's Japanese studios to Japanese studios

You're doing the exact same thing, mate. Compared to general and the standard of game development which is the western side at the moment, its always been cheaper.

Yes when you have a team of over 200 people working on a single game - its going to cost you millions and millions and Yakuza games are some of the biggest productions in Japan, they're a Monmouth task  given the am mount of content that goes into each game .
SEGA also spends a fortune on each Sonic and PSO II would have cost millions to make and up there (most prob more) than what Capcom paid for Lost Planet development .

 RGG doesn't cost heaps of millions to make. Especially with the sequels. The costs for the game has risen due to the new system and engine improvements that they've made during the series run which obviously will now include the PS4. PS02 of course that had a big budget but compared to what you usually have in these type of games its not much. But i'd like to see Sega have the will and not just the budget to produce a new IP instead of relying on Sega west to release all the new  home console IPs.

PSP can be classed a console . Its not a laptop or netbook . Consoles are where PSU gets its best sales in Japan that mean the handhelds in the West it will mean the 360 and PS3 and that's we should all be playing them right now on either the Vita or 360 and PS3.

Stop twisting things to fit your agenda. You know exactly what i was talking about, PSTR has never done well on the home game systems and PSP and Vita NDS are never really classed in that arena which is why people call them handhelds. Which is also why people judge Nintendo, Sony and whoever by the success of their main systems and not the sales of their portable systems. Nintendo at the time of the game cube was still considered to be second/third tier despite the GBA outselling the PS2 in the market. But the PS2 was the best seller in the traditional console market which meant they were the most succesful because that is where it and always has been judged.

[Team Andromeda]

I'm talking about development for goodness sake.

? A Producer job is to get a Team and give them the budget and all the tools they need . Sadly the Shinobi producer was not up to that task and it showed .

April right?, well June is when he obviously had the handle of the extent of the situation,

It was taken after he took full control of SEGA. He talks about Strong leadership and bringing all the Studios back into 1 . It didn't last very long .

First i never said i ever like d SONIC ADVENTURE

? Sonic Adv was a launch game (well it shipped 2 weeks late) and it had issues of clipping and bugs . That's what happen with some early launch games and them being rushed out ;VF on the Saturn played and moved exactly like the coin up (which is what you want with a Arcade port) and the clipping wasn't that bad and was removed completely in Remix.

But the quality of the ports was never in dispute

Turbo Outrun was a joke on the MD, Outrunners not much better, After Burner III a joke on the Mega CD, Galaxy Force played better on the MS than the Mega Drive game
Like with the Saturn and DC the home ports seemed better when the In-House Teams were on the case

New IP, it doesn't seem to be the case

What major new IP has SEGA even made for the 360 or PS3 ?. What little SOJ have made for those systems have all been disc based for the major productions

Compared to general and the standard of game development which is the western side at the moment

Some western teams have the advantage in money and manpower . But I'm on about SEGA Japan and how its fairs against Japanese 3rd parties . Look already Capcom have a stunning next gen engine and new IP for the PS4 , where is SEGA Japan ?

RGG doesn't cost heaps of millions to make. Especially with the sequels.

They each cost millions to make on the PS3 . You can't cram that much content and those huge worlds with out serious man power and some serious money spent . Sonic cost a bomb to make and PSO II must have taken millions to make .

SEGA does spend the money on some key titles

PSTR has never done well on the home game systems and PSP and Vita NDS are never really classed in that arena which is why people call them handhelds

PSO games have sold better on the consoles than the PC . Now in the same way than people see the Laptop as an extension of the PC for the move, people see that for consoles and handheld .  Now SEGA should have had PSO II ready to go on all the major consoles , its the way to get the best sales and to me would be a great seller

[ROJM]

? A Producer job is to get a Team and give them the budget and all the tools they need . Sadly the Shinobi producer was not up to that task and it showed .

It was way after Naka started the project, and with the time he had alloted how can anyone be blamed for that mess created by who was previously in charge?

It was taken after he took full control of SEGA. He talks about Strong leadership and bringing all the Studios back into 1 . It didn't last very long .

No it wasn't, you said April and EDGE does articles in advanced. If you know the setup of Sega, Satomi only takes overall decisions of the entire company IE SEGASAMMY Holdings, he leaves the day to day runnings of the two companies to others. So any change within Sega is really down to Sega themselves.

? Sonic Adv was a launch game (well it shipped 2 weeks late) and it had issues of clipping and bugs . That's what happen with some early launch games and them being rushed out ;VF on the Saturn played and moved exactly like the coin up (which is what you want with a Arcade port) and the clipping wasn't that bad and was removed completely in Remix.

Sorry mate VF port was bad and you know it was. Stop flogging a dead horse. And i really don't know what the question mark is for either. I didn't say SA was perfect, i personally don't like the SA games.


 

Like with the Saturn and DC the home ports seemed better when the In-House Teams were on the case

Just not enough of them on the saturn which is what i said. No one said that the ports couldn't be made properly by the arcade teams, just VF was a shoddy port. that doesn't mean that all the ports were. So stop twisting what im saying.

What major new IP has SEGA even made for the 360 or PS3 ?. What little SOJ have made for those systems have all been disc based for the major productions

Were talking about the next gen and you know it. Yes, key titles will still get new entries but Sega themselves have said they're shifting focus towards digital which mean we won't see many new IP being released on disc format. Why do you keep disputing things that Sega themselves have stated?

Some western teams have the advantage in money and manpower . But I'm on about SEGA Japan and how its fairs against Japanese 3rd parties . Look already Capcom have a stunning next gen engine and new IP for the PS4 , where is SEGA Japan ?

Sega isn't capcom. But they do need to buck up their ideas.

They each cost millions to make on the PS3 . You can't cram that much content and those huge worlds with out serious man power and some serious money spent . Sonic cost a bomb to make and PSO II must have taken millions to make .

I know that but they are still relativly cheap in comparison to many other companies you can name in the industry. You can go on about japan all you like but that isn''t the standard when it comes to dev R+D anymore. The west is.

SEGA does spend the money on some key titles

No one said they didn't. They just don't go beyond the 30 million mark.

PSO games have sold better on the consoles than the PC . Now in the same way than people see the Laptop as an extension of the PC for the move, people see that for consoles and handheld .  Now SEGA should have had PSO II ready to go on all the major consoles , its the way to get the best sales and to me would be a great seller

No one mentioned PC. PS has never sold big numbers until the franchise was released on the handheld system. You can keep spinning and backtracking all you want the point is that the series has never sold decent numbers on home based consoles.

[Team Andromeda]

It was way after Naka started the project

You blame Naka for the piss poor Shadow the Hedgehog and the likes of Sonic Heroes . You can't blame Naka for the mess that was Sonic 06 . He was long taken off the project way before it shipped .

No it wasn't, you said April and EDGE does articles in advanced. If you know the setup of Sega,

 Sammy took over SEGA in December of 2003 , long before April and the interview was done when Satomi-san was chairman of SEGA and in full control of the group, and coming from the one who made out Satomi-san never talked about the Team changes its a bit much to take.

He talks of strong leadership and bringing the Team back into 1 group , only let SEGA make plenty of screw ups (sonic 06 was a lack of strong leadership) and countless Team changes and even letting the likes of New R&D1 go off and have their own Studio name .

Sorry mate VF port was bad and you know it was

? It played moved exactly like the Arcade , and wasn't that far off the look of the Arcade game . Go and play Thunder Blade in the Arcades and then on the Mega Drive to see a world of difference.

Sega isn't capcom.

No they aren't and yet we keep hearing from you than SEGA is bigger than the likes of Capcom Ect. Yet Capcom have more million selling IP have one of the best multi platform engines around and now have a new next gen engine (that looks stunning) and even a new IP. SEGA Japan is again no-where to be seen . Don't you miss the days of console makers having SEGA show off its tech and IP on brand new consoles ? Well ok SONY had SEGA with the Vita I guess .

Just not enough of them on the saturn which is what i said.

? I just give you a huge list and they were others like Wing War ect .

They just don't go beyond the 30 million mark

That's about the average of this gen development costs .

PS has never sold big numbers until the franchise was released on the handheld system

It sold pretty well on the DC , more so given the Platform was dead on its feet at the time . The series has always sold better on the consoles than the PC, no sock really since the Japanese weren't known for their PC love .

People like you need to stop making countless excuses for SEGA Japan, SEGA Japan need to do better, they need to be right up there with Capcom and the rest of the top Japanese development . I hope to god they've got a amazing next gen engine in the works and the likes of PSO, Binary Donain (its needs a 2nd chance) , Yakuza and some new stunning IP are in the works made for multi platform and with an eye to West  as we speak
 

[Nameless 24]

People like you need to stop making countless excuses for SEGA Japan, SEGA Japan need to do better, they need to be right up there with Capcom and the rest of the top Japanese development . I hope to god they've got a amazing next gen engine in the works and the likes of PSO, Binary Donain (its needs a 2nd chance) , Yakuza and some new stunning IP are in the works made for multi platform and with an eye to West  as we speak

It's sad especially when the CANVAS Engine practically went to waste on only one game when they could have used it for a potential VC PS3 sequel since the engine was done.

[ROJM]

You blame Naka for the piss poor Shadow the Hedgehog and the likes of Sonic Heroes . You can't blame Naka for the mess that was Sonic 06 . He was long taken off the project way before it shipped .

Not in the initial stages of development. I've clearly won this since you keep using the word shipped and dodging the question put to you. Shipped is when the product has already finished and been printed.

Sammy took over SEGA in December of 2003 , long before April and the interview was done when Satomi-san was chairman of SEGA and in full control of the group, and coming from the one who made out Satomi-san never talked about the Team changes its a bit much to take.

Sammy didn't have control in 2003, it happened in 2004 when they had full contol, and that interview contridicts what you said originally. So try again.

He talks of strong leadership and bringing the Team back into 1 group , only let SEGA make plenty of screw ups (sonic 06 was a lack of strong leadership) and countless Team changes and even letting the likes of New R&D1 go off and have their own Studio name .

What the frell are you on about? Sega's position in the US changed from being outside of the top 20 publishers to being in the top five within two years and Sega's status in japan had increased very well since the merger.Could things have gone better yes, but dont start acting that Sammy or satomi has been a drag on Sega's feet when they more or less been beneificial as well. You seem to be arguing that he should take direct control of Sega itself which is something you wouldn't want anyway. Half the mistakes that Sega's done is down to Sega and that includes the reshuffling of teams after the company wide reshuffle once the merger was finialised and completed.

? It played moved exactly like the Arcade , and wasn't that far off the look of the Arcade game . Go and play Thunder Blade in the Arcades and then on the Mega Drive to see a world of difference.

a buggy version of the arcade.

No they aren't and yet we keep hearing from you than SEGA is bigger than the likes of Capcom Ect. Yet Capcom have more million selling IP have one of the best multi platform engines around and now have a new next gen engine (that looks stunning) and even a new IP. SEGA Japan is again no-where to be seen . Don't you miss the days of console makers having SEGA show off its tech and IP on brand new consoles ? Well ok SONY had SEGA with the Vita I guess .

Not from me, from countless chart track sites that record this type of thing. Sega doesn't rely on one IP to sell, you know and that's the sad fact you don't understand. You keep thinking in this backward mentality that a billion dollar game has to sell billion dollars worldwide. When that isn't necessarly the case.

? I just give you a huge list and they were others like Wing War ect .

No you gave me a handful because that's just it a handful.

That's about the average of this gen development costs .

Hardly millions upon millions and compared to other devs in Sega's position that is still cheap

It sold pretty well on the DC , more so given the Platform was dead on its feet at the time . The series has always sold better on the consoles than the PC, no sock really since the Japanese weren't known for their PC love .

You can say that about every Sega franchise selling on a sega console. But it hasn't sold well outside of that until recently and that's really been on handhelds. So no it hasn't always sold well on consoles.

People like you need to stop making countless excuses for SEGA Japan, SEGA Japan need to do better, they need to be right up there with Capcom and the rest of the top Japanese development . I hope to god they've got a amazing next gen engine in the works and the likes of PSO, Binary Donain (its needs a 2nd chance) , Yakuza and some new stunning IP are in the works made for multi platform and with an eye to West  as we speak

Really, i'm not the one who becomes blind on what SOJ did during the saturn era. I dont want and no Sega fan wants Sega to be like Capcom, Konami or anyone else. Strange that the people who has nothing good to say about them want the company to imitate other people. How sad and pathectic. I want Sega to stun people the Sega way. End of. You should want that to.

[Team Andromeda]

It's sad especially when the CANVAS Engine practically went to waste on only one game when they could have used it for a potential VC PS3 sequel since the engine was done

Exactly it shows the talent . That games looked better that the just released Ni No Kuni on the PS3 . One can only imagine what a 3rd gen version of the Cavas game would have looked like. Ok the game didn't sell, but sometimes a new IP needs a 2nd game to really take off (SF II anyone?) or they could have used the tech and the Team to make a new RPG or a sequel to skies on the PS3 .

Not in the initial stages of development.

The game completely changed

Sammy didn't have control in 2003,

In 2003 they bought CSK stake thus under Japanese law: giving them control over SEGA and if that wasn't enough how then became chairman of the whole group ?

Sega's position in the US changed from being outside of the top 20 publishers to being in the top five within two years and Sega's status in japan had increased very well since the merger

SEGA consumer Teams have made a profit like 2 or 3 times since the Takover . Under Sammy SEGA name been put through the mud and many people have been let down . We still have the team changes we still have games being rushed and we still had letdown sequels like Sonic 06, PSU, Nights II , Sonic Unleashed and Sega Japan still lacks big name multi million selling IP

Not from me, from countless chart track sites that record this type of thing

Really what SEGA Japan game other than Sonic, Sonic and Mario have sold better than Capcom's RE 5 ?, never mind the likes of Dead Rising, Lost Planet, DMC IV, Street Fighter IV, Dragon Dogma

a buggy version of the arcade

Clipping isn't a bug and there was plenty of clipping in Model 2 games like Daytona USA and Sega Rally in the Arcades .

You can say that about every Sega franchise selling on a sega console.

The likes of PSU and other SEGA console IP still sold better on the consoles than their PC ports .

I dont want and no Sega fan wants Sega to be like Capcom, Konami or anyone else.

Well you should . SEGA needs new IP and Multi Platform engine and eye to western consoles for it's sales and your point about the Saturn is laughable . When SEGA Japan were making the likes of Panzer Dragoon , Rally , Decathlete, Burning Rangers, Dragon Force , Astal , Nights , WWS 97,98, WSB series, Virtual Cop, Fighters Mega Mix  one didn't mind about the screw ups because the games were so good (the same was true for the DC)

These days SEGA is still making plenty of screw ups but not many gems and what gems it does make seems to limited to a single platform or market half the time

 

[Nameless 24]

Exactly it shows the talent . That games looked better that the just released Ni No Kuni on the PS3 . One can only imagine what a 3rd gen version of the Cavas game would have looked like. Ok the game didn't sell, but sometimes a new IP needs a 2nd game to really take off (SF II anyone?) or they could have used the tech and the Team to make a new RPG or a sequel to skies on the PS3 .

I personally liked NNK's artstyle but yeah I think VC looks better, but I like them both to be honest.

I thought that Skies was a one off RPG? I didn't see any loose ends in that game to make a sequel...unless you want an all new cast of characters to show the universe hundreds of years later or something...I wouldn't mind that just as long as the characters and world are represented really well.

[Team Andromeda]

I thought that Skies was a one off RPG

You can always make a sequel to a game and I'm sure pre production work was started on Skies II before the Team was moved the Hand Helds

[ROJM]

The game completely changed

Because naka was n't up to it. it was his project, his responsibility.his failure. face it and move on.

In 2003 they bought CSK stake thus under Japanese law: giving them control over SEGA and if that wasn't enough how then became chairman of the whole group ?

Sammy didn't have full control of Sega until 2004 when they brought the remaining stock to force the merger and create a new company. Everyone knows that, sad you don't.

SEGA consumer Teams have made a profit like 2 or 3 times since the Takover . Under Sammy SEGA name been put through the mud and many people have been let down . We still have the team changes we still have games being rushed and we still had letdown sequels like Sonic 06, PSU, Nights II , Sonic Unleashed and Sega Japan still lacks big name multi million selling IP

No we have departments and divisions now under sega which the teams whatever their selcetive criteria is works under. Again the reshuffling since was mainly Sega's doing. The reshuffling that you are going on about was due to the restructuring of the entire companies that came under the new Segasammy holdings name. Many companies were sold off restructed and whatever or took full control. So to compare that to the various restructing since is riduculous.

Really what SEGA Japan game other than Sonic, Sonic and Mario have sold better than Capcom's RE 5 ?, never mind the likes of Dead Rising, Lost Planet, DMC IV, Street Fighter IV, Dragon Dogma

Again sega isn't capcom. Sega's profits are usually spread between three divisons and companies from the arcade to consumer to their toy divison.
 

Clipping isn't a bug and there was plenty of clipping in Model 2 games like Daytona USA and Sega Rally in the Arcades .

Clipping now is it? LOL. Boy you are blind when it comes to the saturn. it was a piss poor port.

The likes of PSU and other SEGA console IP still sold better on the consoles than their PC ports .

Nope. PStar sold better on handhelds. End of. Since you couldn't get the numbers of VO:MARZ correct i dont think you're an expert on what sold better in anything else.

Well you should . SEGA needs new IP and Multi Platform engine and eye to western consoles for it's sales and your point about the Saturn is laughable . When SEGA Japan were making the likes of Panzer Dragoon , Rally , Decathlete, Burning Rangers, Dragon Force , Astal , Nights , WWS 97,98, WSB series, Virtual Cop, Fighters Mega Mix  one didn't mind about the screw ups because the games were so good (the same was true for the DC)

Your blind support for the saturn is laughable. The saturn was the least supported sega system compared to the others. You keep naming the same titles but if we do an actual  list to list comparison you will see how many titles were delivered by Sega and their subsidaries on each system and the saturn is one of the lowest.

These days SEGA is still making plenty of screw ups but not many gems and what gems it does make seems to limited to a single platform or market half the time

Maybe its to do with the fact that they were a first party when they were making gems as compared to now as a third party.

[ROJM]

I personally liked NNK's artstyle but yeah I think VC looks better, but I like them both to be honest.

I thought that Skies was a one off RPG? I didn't see any loose ends in that game to make a sequel...unless you want an all new cast of characters to show the universe hundreds of years later or something...I wouldn't mind that just as long as the characters and world are represented really well.

There was meant to be a sequel, the port on the gamecube and the cancelled port on the PS2 was meant to generate intrest in the sequel, they even went as far ahead as unofficially confirming that a sequel was in the works but it got canned with a slew of other titles. But of course i said this at the time but the person saying that the game was being made at the time said there were no plans of a sequel at all. funny how time changes ones opinions.

[Trippled]

Well you should . SEGA needs new IP and Multi Platform engine and eye to western consoles for it's sales and your point about the Saturn is laughable . When SEGA Japan were making the likes of Panzer Dragoon , Rally , Decathlete, Burning Rangers, Dragon Force , Astal , Nights , WWS 97,98, WSB series, Virtual Cop, Fighters Mega Mix  one didn't mind about the screw ups because the games were so good (the same was true for the DC)

See I don't get the love you have for the Saturn, when you constantly criticize Sega's current set of games.

You constantly go on how Sega should now make new IP Blockbuster games that are Multi Plattform , yet the wierd lists you make for Saturn games are anything but.

Outside of Panzer Dragoon and NiGHTS, none of the games were stuff were people are going "yep! that's a classic Sega game, I wish Sega would go back to that!". Yes there is Rally, Virtua Cop, and Fighters Megamix, but I think Sega went on to be pretty consistent with these type of games on current-gen consoles, with Rally Revo and huge updates of Virtua Fighter, and we all know they are still many Rail-shooters in production by SEGA.. I mean sure, we don't have 4 different kind of Fighters anymore. But I overall I think most people would agree, that it's better that Sega focuses on one Fighter and constantly improves on it.

You mention stuff like WSB, WWS, DecAthelete, Sega always made these kind of sport games (they even have their own Sports R&D department since like 2006)...it just that on the Saturn that's the only time were the only they bothered to release them worlwide/home consoles, turns out nobody cares about them, because since then, Sega's sports games stayed in Japan/Arcades.

And then stuff like Dragon Force, random JRPG that people sure as hell don't associate much with Sega's core OP, that was just picked up to be finished from a different company. There are still many Handheld-RPG's from Sega that are more made with secondary companies, and if they don't count because they are on handhelds...moot point. Most big JRPG's are on Handhelds now. Dragon Quest 9 is on the DS...

Astal, was just a random Sega made game with mediocore reception, much like a Super Monkey Ball title today. Burning Rangers was a good game and all but a one-off IP that didn't get much attention...they made 2 of those last year...

[Nameless 24]

You can always make a sequel to a game and I'm sure pre production work was started on Skies II before the Team was moved the Hand Helds

True I guess.

There was meant to be a sequel, the port on the gamecube and the cancelled port on the PS2 was meant to generate intrest in the sequel, they even went as far ahead as unofficially confirming that a sequel was in the works but it got canned with a slew of other titles. But of course i said this at the time but the person saying that the game was being made at the time said there were no plans of a sequel at all. funny how time changes ones opinions.

I see, that's some interesting piece of info.

Whether they make a sequel or not, Skies of Arcadia had a pretty well wrapped up plot so either direction wouldn't bother me, although I usually fear if a sequel would do the original justice.

As for Burning Rangers, I wish that they went back to that concept and made a sequel.

Heck, they could put a very basic storyline for the main game (some guy who starts fires and the rangers face off with him at the end?), I think the game has huge potential for its post-game....they could even add a score attack ala NiGHTS.

Of course, this is only what I would love to see...

[ROJM]

See I don't get the love you have for the Saturn, when you constantly criticize Sega's current set of games.

You constantly go on how Sega should now make new IP Blockbuster games that are Multi Plattform , yet the wierd lists you make for Saturn games are anything but.

Outside of Panzer Dragoon and NiGHTS, none of the games were stuff were people are going "yep! that's a classic Sega game, I wish Sega would go back to that!". Yes there is Rally, Virtua Cop, and Fighters Megamix, but I think Sega went on to be pretty consistent with these type of games on current-gen consoles, with Rally Revo and huge updates of Virtua Fighter, and we all know they are still many Rail-shooters in production by SEGA.. I mean sure, we don't have 4 different kind of Fighters anymore. But I overall I think most people would agree, that it's better that Sega focuses on one Fighter and constantly improves on it.

You mention stuff like WSB, WWS, DecAthelete, Sega always made these kind of sport games (they even have their own Sports R&D department since like 2006)...it just that on the Saturn that's the only time were the only they bothered to release them worlwide/home consoles, turns out nobody cares about them, because since then, Sega's sports games stayed in Japan/Arcades.

And then stuff like Dragon Force, random JRPG that people sure as hell don't associate much with Sega's core OP, that was just picked up to be finished from a different company. There are still many Handheld-RPG's from Sega that are more made with secondary companies, and if they don't count because they are on handhelds...moot point. Most big JRPG's are on Handhelds now. Dragon Quest 9 is on the DS...

Astal, was just a random Sega made game with mediocore reception, much like a Super Monkey Ball title today. Burning Rangers was a good game and all but a one-off IP that didn't get much attention...they made 2 of those last year...

See i agree with some of your points but I think you're being too harsh. Its not like the games mentioned weren't good games but they weren't the type of games that would have intrested a western audience in their masses. The Saturn to many grey importers and japanese gamers was effectivly how the americans felt about the genesis at the time. Sega released several games for the Saturn that captured the attention of many japanese gamers who otherwise wasn't bothered about Sega games before. The problem is that these games considered classics to japanese gamers aren't considered special to gamers or Sega gamers outside of Japan/asia. I wouldn't say the saturn didn't produce its own gems, the problem is compared to the MD and the MS/DC it doesn't compare to the gems that was created on those systems. Next to the SG1000 the Saturn is prehaps the least supported Sega system from Sega themselves.
Also looking at their third party output and the criticism TA has put on it what he does n't realise is that to many, third party Sega is exactly like how it was with the Saturn if you were living in the US and europe. The odd arcade ports, couple of original IP every 2 years or so and the rest made up by their western subsidaries.  While the majority of releases are still in japan and aren't up to western Sega fan's tastes. If you don't have the money to import or isn't a game that you would play, you were stuck with not a lot of games for the saturn if you were a sega fan. The complete opposite to what happened with the Genesis when the sega consumer was enjoying a multitude of Sega goodness. This is exactly what is happening now. The last good Sega era was obviously the DC which spoilt us rotten with strong games from SOJ and now were experiencing an era where were not getting that many SOJ games for the west. If it was reverse, i doubt the complaints leveled at Sega with their second party releases and western titles would be as much if the sega consumer actually got more than just two SOJ games every so many years.
To me the Saturn was a lost oppurtunity. Its not like no one wasn't excited about the coming of the Saturn. But too many times I keep seeing the accusations on why it failed hyped up when it isn't the whole truth. The reason why the saturn failed was because the Saturn didn't continue the leagcy of what the genesis/megadrive started. At the time people was excited about certain titles coming for the Saturn, not because Sega confirmed thatthey were coming but people exected it to appear mainly because they were popular on the genesis. So when TOE JAM AND EARL didn't appear, SOR didn't appear, ECCO and the failure of a decent proper SONIC or SHINOBI game there was no way the Saturn was going to succeed. There wasn't any recognisable title to pull in the punters and that's the bottom line. SOJ and SOA failed to keep or entice the audience with titles that became familiar with their fans. Unforunate but nevertheless true.

[ROJM]

True I guess.

I see, that's some interesting piece of info.

Whether they make a sequel or not, Skies of Arcadia had a pretty well wrapped up plot so either direction wouldn't bother me, although I usually fear if a sequel would do the original justice.

As for Burning Rangers, I wish that they went back to that concept and made a sequel.

Heck, they could put a very basic storyline for the main game (some guy who starts fires and the rangers face off with him at the end?), I think the game has huge potential for its post-game....they could even add a score attack ala NiGHTS.

Of course, this is only what I would love to see...

Well Kodama's style of RPGs usually have closed endings. There wasn't really a hint of a sequel with some of the original PHANTASY STAR games either. They more than likely would have set it in the same world but used a diferent set of characters much like they did with VALKYRIA. As for sequels, to me the time has gone past for that now. It would have been better if they had a follow up when the series was still more fresh in peoples mind rather than leave it over a decade later. Many games specifically Sega games don't necessarly perform well when they get a sequel after a long absence. Sometimes its due to the anticipation and romanticised look of the original series that's built over the years that by the time a sequel comes out, the game doesn't measure up to what people has imagined or want it to be in their heads over the years. This is definatly what happened with PANZER DRAGOON and its xbox sequel.

As for BURNING RANGERS unless you count the mobile spin off game(which isn't what fans of the game would have expected or wanted)it could do with a strong sequel or makeover but then what would we end up with? What we got with the sequel to NIGHTS?