The state of SEGA and the games

[Radrappy]

Well, PSO the original wasn't that hard either. The enemies weren't advance AI and their patterns where repeated over and over again.

yes but your capabilities were far more equal to theirs. 

[CrazyT]

About yakuza. It would be like for example having a drift mechanic in a racing game that either doesnt make you faster or even slows you down, so it ends up being there for no reason other than lulz

It doesnt have to be deep. The thing with sor or most beat em ups is that u go from beginning to end of lvl with only 2/3 moves you have. Regular attacks, jump attacks and the special move. The levels you go through feel like the game and AI has been built around those set of moves so yer using them all when nescesary. Yakuza has a great amount of moves that feel like they dont have to be there but also have potential actually to make the experience better if the game would be built with them in mind. If not i'd rather have fewer set of moves and the game feel and AI to be built around those. I think if nagoshi says that he wants to do something abou the fighting mechanic, he should start looking there.  My other issue was the stiff and clunkyness which has been greatly imrpoved in Yakuza 5.

About PSO. I agree that theres more wrong with the game than just difficulty. Though the one thing t does right ima give props to which is its theme. PSO feel has been captured well despite it not having great looking levels, u will instantly feel like yer in PSO from the first moment you get in. Then u find out about the amazing fighting mechanic, and then u find out how theres no real purpose of playing so u start wondering what the hell you are doing every time you play. The game is weird i dont think its describable. We really have to wait for the english release, play together(yay for a SEGAbits team) and then we'll see how many will stay interested

@rappy
Id say the majority of pso world is starting to feel the same way now. Their mentality seems to e more like, i know its bad, but i simply enjoy being there. I guess the whole community aspect plays a big role for most of them.

PS: sorry for my spell and grammar lazyiness. Correcting sux on mobile

[semmie]

aint no internet grammar gangsta over here anyways

being the sega fan that i am. i have changed a lot since sega has become like this
for the 100 procent i will not buy a next gen. no ps4 no wii u what so ever. aint gonna buy psvita as well.
my policy has changed drastically and i am destined to live this life on the handheld 3ds

at this moment i have ps3 and 3ds speaking of a recent console doing its time.
i even decided to jailbreak mly ps3 the other week cause all the games seriously suck except for some exceptions. and sega unfortunate many games suck more then the sucked ones. so however im still a huge sega fan for the optimistic person that i am. but if there is no new sega console i swear i wont buy one neither. ill stick it to handhelds for the rest of my life. its cheaper handier and nicer.

now that i have shwed my point ill go back to the state that crazy tails have mentiones.

sega has become the most illogical company when it is about games.
good games don come out wont get a seq prequel. bad games come out and dissapear in oblivion.
viking battle of asgard was good. they should advance it. resonance of faith was really good. no attention given to it afterwards?

nd the foreost issue of sega is that it really doesnt communicate with us like sony nintendo xbox does. nintendo is the number 1 on this they even do market research in close up. and they dont neccesary be the gamers we like. but they at least found their category of gamers.

sega found us looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago
but they are not good in having a relationship with us.

the state of sega games is wors
and dont cry baby if u dont like yakuza 5 after all
and dont cry about yakuza hd. its still yak1 and 2 but in hd( a re release)
which i mentioned to be a disease that will pay sega negative

[Trippled]

Thing is where does Sega pour money in now? Before they put lots of money into Platinum Games and having them took off, and also Tri-Ace's project. Even if RoF is not a Sega made game it's still along with P* stuff and the Yakuza translations, kind of Sega's way and line-up this Generation in bringing "old-school" Japanese games as apposed to Konami, Square, Bandai and Capcom, who either put Money into Western developers alot, or extremly westernized it. Now Capcom is hiring more for In-house for Next-Gen.

We already heard that Creative Assenmbly get a bigger budget now. Will Sonic now too? (I would like that)

They gotta be up to something. Now that I think about it, most companies don't have anything announced for the later half of 2012...

Speaking of PSO2 tough. Anyone else think that the Shining Force Cross game actually looks more fun? Never been huge on PSO tough. The Arcade Shining game kinda reminds of a constant Kingdom Hearts Gauntlet.

[Nameless 24]

I'm not sure why there is such a strong "against" for wether Resonance of Fate is/isn't a SEGA game. Like I and others have said, they own the IP, they published it, they put money into it, the franchise appears in Project X Zone representing SEGA, the game crossed over into other SEGA properties (PSO2, Samurai and Dragons).

But I guess this is just one of those cases where somebody won't back down, saying it can only be a SEGA game if it is 100% internally developed, which I and others disagree with. Oh well.

I felt like Resonance of Fate is one of SEGA's under-appreciated franchises...it had a Western Dystopian Steampunk mindset to it but Vashyron was basically some fanservice the Japanese loved (so did I actually, but I liked all three of the characters).

Overall, I think it was mostly a SEGA idea but of course, Neverland is Tri-Ace's reference to their games having a super hard dungeon called "Neverland", in RoF's case, it was an abandoned Amusement Park. (I beat the game 100% and thought it was one of the best dungeons in any game ever!)

Too bad it won't get a sequel...and yeah, I sold mine as I did everything possible in the game to not play it ever again...but I wouldn't mind a sequel.

Oh and about 2013, we're only two months into this year...so we are best waiting until June to see if anything major is on the horizon. E3 perhaps?

[semmie]

I felt like Resonance of Fate is one of SEGA's under-appreciated franchises...it had a Western Dystopian Steampunk mindset to it but Vashyron was basically some fanservice the Japanese loved (so did I actually, but I liked all three of the characters).

Overall, I think it was mostly a SEGA idea but of course, Neverland is Tri-Ace's reference to their games having a super hard dungeon called "Neverland", in RoF's case, it was an abandoned Amusement Park. (I beat the game 100% and thought it was one of the best dungeons in any game ever!)

Too bad it won't get a sequel...and yeah, I sold mine as I did everything possible in the game to not play it ever again...but I wouldn't mind a sequel.

Oh and about 2013, we're only two months into this year...so we are best waiting until June to see if anything major is on the horizon. E3 perhaps?

when u say that i kinda have a wishful thought : new sega console

why do i say that? look at the stockings at 4trade updated by the minute. only profit after profit so far. and all we know for now are that there will be sonic games

[ROJM]

I know ROJM has a thing for arguing with me now, simply because I don't agree with him, but don't let your desire to prove me wrong overwhelm your reason.

Look at the credits to Resonance of Fate.

Written by Masaki Norimoto (FOUNDER of Tri-Ace, orginal creator of Star Ocean)
Directed by Takayuki Suguro (Long employed game developer at Tri-Ace)
They also used a proprietary Tri-Ace engine.

The most important people to the vision and creation of a game are its Director and Writer. Neither of these people work at Sega.

Simply because Sega gave them money and said "We'll pay for you to make an RPG that we can put our logo on" does not mean it's a Sega game.

They may own the rights to the characters, etc. but they in no way "made" that game.

A little research goes a long way instead of just saying "Arcticsea posted something?! Well I'll show him."

You only want it to be a Sega game because it's a good game and shines a good light on your floundering favorite company. Don't bend the facts just to suit your wishes.

Then you haven't done any in depth research then which means you are officially an idiot.

Never mind the fact that a definition of a Sega game has changed over the decades that this company has been in existence. At one point, Sega never made any of their own games. At one point, Sega games use to be anglo american games made in Japan. Now its japanese games from Japan. In the future who knows? Point is the Sega name as determined by the games were different during each decade/era.

RoF is a Sega second party game. I made that definition quite clearly. Why? Because it fits the criteria of a second party title. Sega hiring a studio outside of their own inhouse development to create a game for them.
Now how do they pay for this? Using money paid for by Sega. Sega's money/resources being used to create the title. What is the result? The game and the code of the game and the characters of the game belong to Sega. Does this mean Tri Ace can create a new game using the same engine? Most likely but only similar and not exact. They can't however call it RoF or END OF ETERNITY or use any of the characters, concepts etc. Sega funds was used to create the game. Therefore its a Sega game be it from a second party source.

 This isn't a new thing since Sega has been doing this for over 20 years. Sega has a long tradition in second party titles and they are just as Sega as the titles coming from SOJ.

Published titles as i've stated as Barry has mentioned and numerous people are titles that Sega DON'T own but are acting on that studio's/publisher's behalf for whatever reason. They take on the responsibilities that those companies wouldn't necessary do for some reason.


 Now Im getting sick and tired of these Segafakers coming into this forum and dictating to older members how the company works, what they supposed to be about, or making out that everything they do is crap. It's obvious that this goof hasn't a clue. Just because you played a couple of sega games on some shoddy emulator doesn't make you one of us. Unless you suffered for your art of being a fan of this company then you'd at least understand but obviously you couldn't have judging from you're banal comments. Now we know you hate sega, so shut up and be quiet. Don't think you can make a name for yourself by taking me on. Many have tried and failed. You got something constructive to say fair enough, BUT so far all i've seen you do is make grand generalizations and statements about sega that are completely wrong. At least a monkey can learn from its mistakes, obviously you cannot.

[ROJM]

Personally, if I see a SEGA logo on the box, it's a SEGA game. However I also clarify things with a tier system:

1 - Internally developed and SEGA owned and published
2 - Externally developed and SEGA owned and published
3 - Externally developed and developer owned and SEGA published

Things can also get even more detailed when you factor in specifics like the exact point SEGA got involved (tiers 2&3) and how much internal SEGA staff assisted in development. Sonic, for example, is that first tier. Bayonetta is second tier (and the game itself was SEGA influenced and some SEGA staff assisted in development). Jack Lumber is third tier, as it was already developed and the dev owns the game, SEGA just published it.

Of course there are always going to be special cases, like ASRT and Sonic 4, where it was externally developed but it deals with a SEGA license. In that case it could be considered both tier 1 and tier 2 (1.5?).

Resonance of Fate would be a second tier title, same goes for Ecco and Toe Jam & Earl. Right?

Yes totally correct but technically TJ and E and ECCO usually goes into the western division subsidiary banner. That's when it gets confusing. Especially with TJ and E because Sega doesn't fully own the IP.

Like i said before in another topic, Sega the third party is still acting like Sega the console manufacturer. I like BAYONETTA and games of its ilk. I like some of the western titles from Sega. I think they complement the SOJ titles well so as a consumer I'm given a variety of choice from the same company. But the problem is there isn't a need for Sega to use second parties anymore or at least in a larger scale. To some degree it isn't necessary to use western dev/outside sources anymore either. Sega is a third party now and they need to really start reminding the video game consumer and bring to their attention what they, being Sega of japan can do and the type of games that they can produce. That's effectively what's been missing to be honest since their journey into third party began. I understand internally and marketwise they have had problems that affected what they wanted to do during the last gen but during this gen of systems, there has been a handful of original games from Sega that they've made even playable without having to be a japanese school girl or kid to enjoy them. What does it say that the biggest thing from Sega was the whole platinum games announcement that excited everyone or even the ALIENS initial announcement yet the two best original titles from SOJ not only didn't get that press coverage from Sega but didn't do great in the market(VALKYRIA and BD.) I don't think Sega should act like any other company but they do one thing that capcom and konami do and that's to start producing a whole lot more games from their first source of developers instead of relying on others. Be they AAA, AA or B level. So people can see the difference and what Sega in its internal divisions is about. If anything the second party and western developer thing hasn't worked in the long run. Now they should approach it differently, sadly it doesn't seem that they will though.

[Barry the Nomad]

ROJM you have got to stop with the personal attacks. If you disagree with somebody, fine. Lay out why you think they're wrong. But you have got to stop sprinkling in insults like calling people "idiot" and labeling people as younger fans who know less than you. Its just insulting and hurts your own arguments in the end.

[ROJM]

ROJM you have got to stop with the personal attacks. If you disagree with somebody, fine. Lay out why you think they're wrong. But you have got to stop sprinkling in insults like calling people "idiot" and labeling people as younger fans who know less than you. Its just insulting and hurts your own arguments in the end.

He insulted me first. If he can't handle it, he shouldn't start it. As far as i'm concerned he's both and that's really because of what he has said so far. If someone pours scorn over the fact that they are called supporters of sega or whatever you really have to question why they are coming here in the first place. I particularly don't need to be "called out" when i didn't even address him originally in the first place. But duly noted. I'll stop for the moment. Just make sure that he does the same.

[Barry the Nomad]

Thanks for obliging. And that goes without saying that nobody should be insulting anybody on either side. I'd lock both this topic and the Aliens one, but I'm going to trust you guys in dropping the arguments.

[ROJM]

Thank you, it is a good topic from reading the other comments posted so far. No need for me or arc to ruin it by getting it locked.

[semmie]

its on my lips and hips
while i eat spare ribs
rather kiss that golden axe beast rider girl on her lips

^^

so uhm the state of sega huh.
economically its really really good
gaming quality either very good
or very bad
you wont find an in between average game. i thought anarchy was average
its actually lame
i enjoyed aliens untill it semic bricked my ps3

actually i felt sega at best when they had their consoles.
the only game complain i had back in the days was that hidden and dangerous simulation full of bugs. but those bugs and glitches of hidden and dangerous were on pc as well. so no sega complain there

i just cant believe this will always go good.
sega makes really good games. but also very bad ones
and people in these days dont like to gamble their money. they wanna make sure a game is good

so what happens? people be like yo sega good games but it might be like that bad game i bought last time

so again. sega will either have to make this year good. otherwise i fear a sudden death. regardless all that i say. sega always makes profit see the 4trade website updated by the minute

[thearcticsea]

Dude, ROJM, man. Relax.

I'm not gonna argue with you man. Sorry for being so argumentative in the first place. Seriously.

Just let me say a couple things real quick.

I love Sega. Admittedly I think they're currently on a bad track. That's all. That doesn't make me a prick.

And also, I'm not some "new member" which you obviously have a pet peeve about. I don't need to talk about how long I've been playing Sega games and following the company's moves, it's been a seriously long time, but that's not the point.

Suffice it to say I was a writer on Seganerds.com for more than a year and was in the podcasts with Graham and Chris and George and all that shit. I go way back. I saw the writing on the wall with SegaNerds and kind of bailed before George did, but I liked all those dudes a lot and had a great time writing for them while it lasted, before we had a very small falling out about the direction of the site.

I'm not tooting a horn here or anything. If anything I feel bad about the way that site ended and would be hesitant to bring it up. But I'm just saying, I've invested a lot of personal time and energy and money and emotion into following, reporting on, and yes, "supporting" Sega.

I'm with you on a lot of things. But when we disagree don't be so self-righteous man! We're here for the same reasons and I'm honestly sorry if I pissed you off.

[ROJM]

Point taken, start again.

To me there has been one particular trend.  Anticipation for a  Sega game versus the final result. Sega has the anticipation factor down pat, a lot of people were excited about some of the deals and games that they announced during this current gen. The problem is for whatever reason it doesn't translate to sales or great sales. MADWORLD and OVERKILL CONDUIT was annonced by Sega for the wii. The anticipation for these titles became hot as many people started to act like Sega was the only company saving nintendo gamers from a dirge of vapour family ware. Then the games came out and didn't sell in great numbers. When GBX and Obsidian was revealed to be working with sega there was another big anticipation that in the case of GBX reached fever pitch. Then the titles was released and didn't reach expectations or whatever. With games from Sega themselves like BINARY DOMAIN the anticipation grew the closer the game reaced it's release date. That game flopped as well for various reasons. It seems Sega is good at getting people excited about their games but not good at making sure the end product is secure, be it marketing the end product or making sure the game is actually good or in some cases even finished.  They really need to sortout the process of development outside of their key franchises that has to be good.