Is 2013 one of SEGA's worst years ever? (Long-winded rant)

[ROJM]

What? Rome II entered the charts as the top selling individual software on the week of its release and second best selling combined formats chart; it fell to tenth the following week and NOW sits at 21st, not when it launched. This was after selling 105,000 units on its first week of sales in the United Kingdom and doing triple the sales of the original and one of the biggest launches this year. Sales across Europe and America would probably ensure the title is an easy million seller.

Trying to dress up Rome II as some kind of failure is just not sticking to the facts, it's going to end up being one of, it not, the most successful Total War title at the rate it's selling.

And that's what i'm talking about, Aki. TA comes out with such ridiculous statements that isn't true in order to prolong the argument and distract people from the original issue that was raised. The next thing he will say is that the game doesn't count because its not an original Sega game. Now at least some people can understand what i've been dealing with after all these years. When you dont go into a debate with him, he's fine but you say something he disagres with..god help the topic.

[ROJM]

I'd welcome and even push for that myself, Atlus has a ability to turn otherwise niche pieces of software into a sustainable business model by turning them into moderately successful 100,000 - 200,000 sellers in the United States (With similar figures in Europe) and we know SEGA Japan has no issue with moderate sellers, as shown by their continued support of titles like 7th Dragon.

Actually has anyone realised that Etrian Odyssey can continue now because 7th Dragon has gone into a totally new direction? Funny that.

[Trippled]

@Aki-at

alot of these people are pretty much producers of smaller stuff that Sega has always been making (Shining, Puyo, Sports games...), since the GBA really.

CS3 had nothing as of note for a good while, till they came out with Valkyria in 08 out of nowhere. I hope for a similar situation.

Well like Capcom that was mistake to outsource too many IP , but the poor Sonic games were made In-House, most of the MoneyBall games were made In-House , Nightshade was made In-House, So was NiGHTS 2, so was Project Altered Beast  and they all left a bitter taste with fans.

Capcom isn't unguilty of that either. Final Fight and some of the later Megaman X games.

[Aki-at]

Actually has anyone realised that Etrian Odyssey can continue now because 7th Dragon has gone into a totally new direction? Funny that.

Oh yes, the thought came into my mind, was wondering what would happen to Etrian Odyssey now but recalled 7th Dragon's radical change in design, wonder what caused that.

@Aki-at

alot of these people are pretty much producers of smaller stuff that Sega has always been making (Shining, Puyo, Sports games...), since the GBA really.

CS3 had nothing as of note for a good while, till they came out with Valkyria in 08 out of nowhere. I hope for a similar situation.

We do know that Sonic Team's Sonic Unleashed/Core Generations team and Ryu Ga Gotoku's Yakuza 5 team are unaccounted for and I am surprised after a long time we have not heard anything about a new Shining game.

[Team Andromeda]

Trying to dress up Rome II as some kind of failure is just not sticking to the facts, it's going to end up being one of, it not, the most successful Total War title at the rate it's selling.

Never said it was a failure just listing where it was in the charts. Compared to Monster Hunter sales its nothing

Because nothing fresh has been done with it that's why

Well they tried it with a turn based RPG and that just didn't work out . Its a IP that had its day and was dated .

You said the arcades was enough to save Sega

They would have  With no consumer side SEGA wouldn't have posted massive losses and never would have been sold off to Sammy . SEGA would have been doing very well and with decent levels of cash , but the consumer side blew that apart.

And you make a loss which is what capcom has done.

They didn't make a loss in 2010 . Least profitable doesn't mean a loss I think you find.

ROME 2 made more money than LP3 try again kid

More money than Monster Hunter 4 ? Maybe its you that needs to try again .

Yet Sega made the profit and not Capcom

Capcom didn't make a loss and also unlike SEGA Capcom hasn't posted a loss this generation . SEGA has and its consumer side has barley broken even for most of this gereration .

KUNOCHI wasn't bad people complained because it wasn't SHINOBI 2

It was poor and looked like a PS game and not a PS2 title . Compared to actions games like O.TO. GI 2, DMC 3 it was an utter joke .

And most of that stuff was sorted out so its another moot point you're making.

Monkeyball isn't sorted out on the consoles , Shinobi, NiGHTS, Aletered Beast all in limbo and far from sorted out on the consoles  and Shinobi on the 3D sucked













 

[Trippled]

We do know that Sonic Team's Sonic Unleashed/Core Generations team and Ryu Ga Gotoku's Yakuza 5 team are unaccounted for and I am surprised after a long time we have not heard anything about a new Shining game.

Hopefully they stopped making and spend money on worthwhile things!

[ROJM]

Never said it was a failure just listing where it was in the charts. Compared to Monster Hunter sales its nothing

Compared to Monster Hunter sales in europe and America FOOTBALL MANAGER and TOTAL WAR has trounced it. And again you were suggesting that the game was a flop and it wasn't as well as the fact its still in the charts.

Well they tried it with a turn based RPG and that just didn't work out . Its a IP that had its day and was dated .

They did that with Sonic, which didn't work either. I'm talking about refreshing the gameplay and style of the core game that Mario and Sonic respective series has enjoyed over the last two decades.

They would have  With no consumer side SEGA wouldn't have posted massive losses and never would have been sold off to Sammy . SEGA would have been doing very well and with decent levels of cash , but the consumer side blew that apart.

No TA you originally pointed out that the arcade side was what turned a profit during Sega's turbulant period and would so again. I said that it wasn't enough to save it and it couldn't save it now. That was the point and you lost it. now you are coming up a completely different spin. You lost the argument, end of.

They didn't make a loss in 2010 . Least profitable doesn't mean a loss I think you find.

They made 22 million. thats bad for a company the size of capcom and you know it. That's a big loss on profit that didn't come in.

More money than Monster Hunter 4 ? Maybe its you that needs to try again .

One game ohhhh getting desperate now.

Capcom didn't make a loss and also unlike SEGA Capcom hasn't posted a loss this generation . SEGA has and its consumer side has barley broken even for most of this gereration .

2010 and 2013 is PART of this gen so yep they have made a loss this gen.

It was poor and looked like a PS game and not a PS2 title . Compared to actions games like O.TO. GI 2, DMC 3 it was an utter joke .

Not to those who played the game. The backlash however was people wanted a sequel to SHINOBI but instead got a spin off game.

Monkeyball isn't sorted out on the consoles , Shinobi, NiGHTS, Aletered Beast all in limbo and far from sorted out on the consoles  and Shinobi on the 3D sucked

MONKEYBALL is still and the others aren't games that Sega even relies on anymore. Moot point.













 

[ROJM]

Oh yes, the thought came into my mind, was wondering what would happen to Etrian Odyssey now but recalled 7th Dragon's radical change in design, wonder what caused that.

We do know that Sonic Team's Sonic Unleashed/Core Generations team and Ryu Ga Gotoku's Yakuza 5 team are unaccounted for and I am surprised after a long time we have not heard anything about a new Shining game.

Well the last new SHINING game was Excelia for arcades.

[Team Andromeda]

Compared to Monster Hunter sales in europe and America FOOTBALL MANAGER and TOTAL WAR has trounced it

The last Football Manager  game last time I checked wasn't a million seller and Monster Hunter 4 has sold more copies in Japan that Total War will ever manage world wide - the series has never sold 2 million for a single entry into the series. 

I'm talking about refreshing the gameplay and style of the core game that Mario and Sonic respective series has enjoyed over the last two decades.

Ok fair point.

No TA you originally pointed out that the arcade side was what turned a profit during Sega's turbulant period and would so again.

I just made out that the Arcade side has always done well and posted very good profits even at the time of Arcades sharp decline in the West.

They made 22 million. thats bad for a company the size of capcom and you know it

$22 Million net profit is good for any cooperation the size of Capcom (with some 1000-15000 staff).

2010 and 2013 is PART of this gen

What part of Capcom not posting a loss in 2010 do you not understand ? . And you keep going on about this year from Capcom , even though it posted a profit;when SEGA had to restructure its self it cost them $85 million in losses and SEGA also lost key staff.

The backlash however was people wanted a sequel to SHINOBI but instead got a spin off game

Nobody cares about a spin off when a spin off is happens to be good . Nightshade and to a point Shinobi on the PS2 - Saw SEGA go from simply the best at Ninja games in the 16 bit days to be totally outclassed by Fromsoftware O.TO.GI , Temco Ninja Gaiden even Tatio's  Bujingai that was the reality .

MONKEYBALL is still and the others aren't games that Sega even relies on anymore

Monkeyball last entry on a home console was just very basic stuff and a far cry from the magic of the Cube games and the IP I listed all all ones that have been far from sorted out on the consoles .











 

[ROJM]

The last Football Manager  game last time I checked wasn't a million seller and Monster Hunter 4 has sold more copies in Japan that Total War will ever manage world wide - the series has never sold 2 million for a single entry into the series. 

According to you Japan is a dead market compared to the west. And again MH has never sold as strong as FOOTBALL MANAGER and TOTAL WAR combined in the west. But if were talking about 2 million sellers then i will throw in 2 million respectivly for KINGDOM CONQUEST 2 and PSO2 which one you have to pay for and two the second you activly have to pay money for. Which is WHY sega is making more money.

Ok fair point.

Another point you lost. Three-0 to me so far. Four if you count ISHIN.

I just made out that the Arcade side has always done well and posted very good profits even at the time of Arcades sharp decline in the West.

And it wasn't enough to save the company. Talk about flogging a dead horse.

$22 Million net profit is good for any cooperation the size of Capcom (with some 1000-15000 staff).

Oh wait now you are admitting they posted 22 million?

What part of Capcom not posting a loss in 2010 do you not understand ? . And you keep going on about this year from Capcom , even though it posted a profit;when SEGA had to restructure its self it cost them $85 million in losses and SEGA also lost key staff.

They DIDN'T. What part of loss don't you understand. Everyone from people who deal with these things to fans to the COO of the frigging company has said thatt things have been bad recently and they need to deal with it. LOSS get it. Games not meeting their sales targets across the board. Operating costs higher than their actual profit. lOSS LOSS L-O-S-S.
 

Nobody cares about a spin off when a spin off is happens to be good . Nightshade and to a point Shinobi on the PS2 - Saw SEGA go from simply the best at Ninja games in the 16 bit days to be totally outclassed by Fromsoftware O.TO.GI , Temco Ninja Gaiden even Tatio's  Bujingai that was the reality .

That's your opinion. These things go in cycles. And if SHINOBI had been released on the console it was developed for the DC it probably would been better rememberbed. OTOGI by the way wasn't a ninja game so it doesn't count. Your just picking on SHINOBI PS2 because it didn't appearon your precious Xbox.But the reality is that things with Sega has improved since then.

Monkeyball last entry on a home console was just very basic stuff and a far cry from the magic of the Cube games and the IP I listed all all ones that have been far from sorted out on the consoles .

The cube games were arcade ports which Sega ended up exploiting with various follow ups. That's what usually happens when an arcade title from Sega is taken over to a degree by the consumer side. Weve seen it happen with GOLDEN AXE OUTRUN and countless others. You should be use to that by now.
Now trying to point out a few games doesn't mean a thing because the bottom line is Capcom made a loss and Sega didn't. You as a Sega fan should be happy. But no you are comparing things that has happened to Sega years ago as a reason to make out Capcom is better. All Capcom is good at is marketing but not even the best marketing could save the bomb that was Lost Planet a game you have been championing for. Their estabilshed IP is getting tired and their new stuff is crap. The complete opposite with Sega who at least are doing something new with their Ip and releasing games that people want to check out or making moves people are talking about. Is it all perfect, no but the point is that its mananged to work and they are in a position to sort out what doesn't work to improve the company and relations with fans. When you are losing money faster than a sinking ship you don't have the room to manevbor to sort yourself out and usually it can take years to do it much like what happened with Sega in their times of trouble AFTER the DC.   









 

[Team Andromeda]

According to you Japan is a dead market compared to the west

It is unless you're Square, Nintendo or on handhelds .

And again MH has never sold as strong as FOOTBALL MANAGER and TOTAL WAR

When was the last time a Football Manager game sold more than 2 million copies , same goes for Total War ? .

And it wasn't enough to save the company

No but the point you overlook is with out the consumer side it would have been more than good enough.

Oh wait now you are admitting they posted 22 million

I'm not the one making out Capcom posted a loss in 2010 you are and you're wrong .

COO of the frigging company has said thatt things have been bad recently and they need to deal with it.

Most CEO of all games companies has been saying much the same and lots of gaming corps have been spending billions on restructuring be that Capcom, SEGA, SONY, EA and so on.

Games not meeting their sales targets across the board

RE 6 might not hit 7 but its sold 5 million . When was the last time SEGA had a single game that sold 5 million copies on a console , over than Mario & Sonic none came close .

Your just picking on SHINOBI PS2 because it didn't appearon your precious Xbox.But the reality is that things with Sega has improved since then.

No it just came up way short of DMC,Ninja Gaiden and O.TO.GI like SEGA's other actions game Blood Will Tell, GunGrave. I think most people expected better from SEGA and not for SEGA to be so outclassed even by Temco with Ninja Gaiden - Now that is what Shinobi on the PS2 should really have been like .

The cube games were arcade ports which Sega ended up exploiting with various follow ups

Monkey Ball 2 wasn't a port not that really makes any difference .

Weve seen it happen with GOLDEN AXE OUTRUN and countless others.

Most of them were pretty good when handle directly by SEGA Japan.

All Capcom is good at is marketing but not even the best marketing could save the bomb that was Lost Planet a game you have been championing for

Lost Planet 1 and 2 weren't bombs at all and sold better than any current SEGA IP (bar Sonic) you can bring up. Sure Lost Planet 3 is a flop but SEGA had plenty of them too .

Sega who at least are doing something new with their Ip and releasing games that people want to check out or making moves people are talking about.

 They're doing nothing of the short . Just more Sonic, more Yakuza and more PSO and even more Lets Make a Football team . No new IP, Nothing orginal and nothing like the SEGA of old.



 

[ROJM]

It is unless you're Square, Nintendo or on handhelds .

Capcom being one of the biggest third parties yes it is a failure. Dont paint them like they are a small gun.

When was the last time a Football Manager game sold more than 2 million copies , same goes for Total War ? .

When was the last timeMonster Hunter sold that in the west? You couldn't even get the sales of the recent TW right. LOL

No but the point you overlook is with out the consumer side it would have been more than good enough.

No the point you overlooked is that it haS NOTHING to do with the argument. You lost it. Its finished. Stop spinning hypothecticals on something that NEVER HAPPENED!

I'm not the one making out Capcom posted a loss in 2010 you are and you're wrong .

Then the COO and the buisness web sites and newspapers as well as the millions of capcom fans are also wrong. Grow up TA. You've been more wrong than i ever have.

Most CEO of all games companies has been saying much the same and lots of gaming corps have been spending billions on restructuring be that Capcom, SEGA, SONY, EA and so on.

Yes when they all made a big loss just like Capcom is at the moment. Thank you for finally agreeing with me.

RE 6 might not hit 7 but its sold 5 million . When was the last time SEGA had a single game that sold 5 million copies on a console , over than Mario & Sonic none came close .

MARIO AND SONIC sold 10 million and combined this gen way more than RE put together. So try again. Re7 is one game. Most of their games have failed to hit the estimated targets which means that the titles made a loss which means the company as a whole made a loss. So did their digital divison. So did the arcades and many other things. So using this and that to prove your point when you haven't shown anything to counter the point apart from your say so is childish, and screams of zealously.
 

No it just came up way short of DMC,Ninja Gaiden and O.TO.GI like SEGA's other actions game Blood Will Tell, GunGrave. I think most people expected better from SEGA and not for SEGA to be so outclassed even by Temco with Ninja Gaiden - Now that is what Shinobi on the PS2 should really have been like .

Sega never made GUNGRAVE they just published it for Red. OTOGI isn't an ninja game so again you are wrong. 5-0 to me. SHINOBI PS2 isn't crap and neither is KUNOICHI. It was one of the few Sega games from that period that fans thought was good. I dont care about NG or the others i care as any sega fan SHOULD do is whether the game itself was good and it was.

Monkey Ball 2 wasn't a port not that really makes any difference .

It was actually a port with added material. Keep it up, me laddio.

Most of them were pretty good when handle directly by SEGA Japan.

It was SOJ that ended screwing it up.

Lost Planet 1 and 2 weren't bombs at all and sold better than any current SEGA IP (bar Sonic) you can bring up. Sure Lost Planet 3 is a flop but SEGA had plenty of them too .

LP3 was and you know full way that i was talking about that. But then LP wasn't a great game to begin with and now that people see it for what it is the game has been panned and bombed. And this is the direction you wanted Sega to take.LOL.RGG has sold better than LP has and that's including the spin offs. You will keep touting the initial figures but i know the FINAL figures of the game ie how much it ended up making the final figure. Sega only gives out initial figures in their public reports, they never give you the real final figure because the stock holders are privvy to that info.

They're doing nothing of the short . Just more Sonic, more Yakuza and more PSO and even more Lets Make a Football team . No new IP, Nothing orginal and nothing like the SEGA of old.

It wont be the sega of old because the sega of old were a console manufacturer. This is Sega as a third party part 2. Second They have actually and still continuing to do. This generation alone can attest to that compared to the crap capcom flogged. But you being anti Sega wouldn't want to see that. Because seeing more RE, DMC, MARVEL VS whoever LP done to death etc etc etc. Some thing that Capcom is more guilty of than Sega will ever be.   

[tarpmortar]

The last Football Manager  game last time I checked wasn't a million seller and Monster Hunter 4 has sold more copies in Japan that Total War will ever manage world wide - the series has never sold 2 million for a single entry into the series. 

FBM 2013 absolutely broke a million. and in 2012 with only an expansion released Total War did over 2 million in sales for the overall series.

[nuckles87]

It was actually a port with added material. Keep it up, me laddio.

Unless the internet missed it, I think you might be wrong here. I remembered this being a game built for consoles, and....I can't find anything on a "Monkey Ball 2" anywhere.

I really wish you guys would use sources in these arguments. I read so much that I've never heard of before, but I never know if I can take it seriously.

[tarpmortar]

Unless the internet missed it, I think you might be wrong here. I remembered this being a game built for consoles, and....I can't find anything on a "Monkey Ball 2" anywhere.

I really wish you guys would use sources in these arguments. I read so much that I've never heard of before, but I never know if I can take it seriously.

Sourced my argument :/ unless you want a link for the Total War number, thought that was common knowledge? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=79142497