Sonic Boom Thread

[Ben]

Regardless, I don't remember hearing that the game was particularly successful.

But it was also not the most well-received game, to be fair.

[Radrappy]

VGChartz isn't really the most reliable site for sales numbers.

Not to be rude, but who the heck should we be citing?  I know people like to claim they're 100% unreliable but it doesn't mean they can never be brought up in conversation.  Their listing for SLW was almost identical to the number shipped/sold that Sega later released in their earnings report. 

[Saturn Memories]

VGChartz isn't really the most reliable site for sales numbers.

Unless you have a 10-year-old earnings report you can point to, it's the best information available.

[nuckles87]

Nah, but I just feel the need to point that out whenever its referenced as a serious source.

Regardless, I don't remember hearing that the game was particularly successful.

But it was also not the most well-received game, to be fair.

Oddly enough, some friends of mine whom I wouldn't expect to care for it have been praising it lately...

[Aki-at]

 

Burning Rangers was, like Ristar, released towards the end of a console's lifespan, and had a notoriously brief print run in the West. If Billy Hatcher did sell a million, I'd hardly call that "flopping hard", especially on the Gamecube, a system where few third party titles found success.

NiGHTS was a game that actually did have a sequel in development at one point, for both the Saturn and later the Dreamcast, called "Air NiGHTS".

But Sakura Taisen 2 was released in the same year and that went on to sell over 500,000 and I believe so did a Super Robot Wars title. Whilst you have a point with the Western release, I'm just doubtful a title about firefighters in space would be a highly successful venture for SEGA over here.

I never said Billy Hatcher flopped hard but as far as I know from old NPD records, it never broke the 200,000 mark in the United States. I am just guesstimating that Europe might have helped it significantly but I really have nothing to support that other than "Well Sonic Team made it and it's a platformer"

You forget that NiGHTS was supposed to have a Dreamcast game. It was Yuji Naka who abandoned the idea when the gyroscopic controller was deemed impractical. Burning Rangers, like Ristar, also came out near the very end of its console generation.

I'm aware of that but I'm just pointing out NiGHTS is not that successful outside of Japan (The original did close to 350k in it's first year on the Japanese market) and that was my point, it might seem well known because of the vocal fanbase but it is a niche product here. It's the same with Yakuza, a pretty vocal fanbase but at the end of the day sales data shows the fanbase is relatively small even amongst niche series.

I'm sure Panzer Dragoon's status as a launch title helped it significantly. It was also the only launch title that wasn't a graphical mess.

But that didn't stop the sequel on the console to sell well too but in fairness SEGA probably had different expectations for a title developed by their premier console developer vs Team Andromeda.

Also, using Sakura Wars and the Let's Make games to support your argument is a bit disingenuous. The only sales data that was relevant to these titles comes from within Japan because they were both Japanese exclusives. The Saturn was well regarded in Japan, and when these titles sold well enough in Japan, they got sequels in Japan. A Sakura Wars game would not come out in America until 2010 (no thanks to Sega).

But I am talking about it from a purely sales point of view. Irregardless of where those titles found successes, they found them somewhere. If Burning Rangers, Ristar etc found success in one region, SEGA would have continued to develop more entries to those games. Sonic is a poor seller in Japan but that never stopped SEGA making more sequels because he was hugely successful in the Western world.

In any case my original point wasn't directly aimed at any particular game in the list but trying to justify a game selling poorly on the console it released on, despite said console having multiple successful games launched on it, disproves that notion.

Not to be rude, but who the heck should we be citing?  I know people like to claim they're 100% unreliable but it doesn't mean they can never be brought up in conversation.  Their listing for SLW was almost identical to the number shipped/sold that Sega later released in their earnings report. 

Unless you have a 10-year-old earnings report you can point to, it's the best information available.

Simply because it's the only source of information does not mean it should be used. They have greatly overestimated the sales of Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games and severely underestimated Iron Man to name but two SEGA titles who's numbers did not match up and from the looks of things, Sonic & Allstars Racing Transformed seems to be too. I've even seen sales numbers for SKUs that do not exist. It also helps that we do not know their methodology whilst sales trackers like NPD, Media Create, Chart Tracker etc has access to large number of stores across their respective countries.

So until their tracker becomes reliable, then there is no reason to use them.

[TimmiT]

Not to be rude, but who the heck should we be citing?  I know people like to claim they're 100% unreliable but it doesn't mean they can never be brought up in conversation.  Their listing for SLW was almost identical to the number shipped/sold that Sega later released in their earnings report. 

Just because the 10 year old kid at the kindergarten who's dad supposedly works at Microsoft is your only source for certain info doesn't mean you should report it.

[Radrappy]

Just because the 10 year old kid at the kindergarten who's dad supposedly works at Microsoft is your only source for certain info doesn't mean you should report it.

This is kind of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say?  Even though they are compiling their numbers from unchecked sources, they're sometimes accurate.  That's more than you can say for the "dad" that works for microsoft. 


Plus, there is a method to the madness.


http://www.vgchartz.com/article/82746/editorial-why-it-is-so-easy-to-blame-vgchartz/

[Aki-at]

Plus, there is a method to the madness.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/82746/editorial-why-it-is-so-easy-to-blame-vgchartz/

200 stores across America who may or may not share their information with VGChartz. Most of these stores make some money selling their data to NPD which in turns sells that data off to publishers, I'm not sure they would, out of the kindness of their heart, share much information with VGChartzzzzzzz.

As I said though, their biggest issue is reliability.

[Aki-at]

https://twitter.com/SEGAbits/status/433596840911462400

Saw Barry post this, another major departure from the series is there will not be Chaos Emeralds.

Personally I don't mind the Emeralds not appearing since they've become a tired plot device but at the same time, I'm not sure so many changes at once is really advisable, still need something to say it relates to Sonic other than the character designs and the names of the core cast.

[MadeManG74]

Chaos Emeralds just became a McGuffin in recent games anyway.

[max_cady]

That means no Super Sonic.  I can live with that... I think.

[Nameless 24]

Chaos Emeralds just became a McGuffin in recent games anyway.

Good thing Lost World never used it as a plot device either.

I don't mind it when they include them as an optional side quest (since it's a staple in Sonic games), but being the plot device of most of the recent games just make it tiresome.

Seems they are continuing the series without them in any form (unless you count 3DS Lost World which uses them as a side quest).

[Saturn Memories]

I'm aware of that but I'm just pointing out NiGHTS is not that successful outside of Japan (The original did close to 350k in it's first year on the Japanese market) and that was my point, it might seem well known because of the vocal fanbase but it is a niche product here. It's the same with Yakuza, a pretty vocal fanbase but at the end of the day sales data shows the fanbase is relatively small even amongst niche series.

I wasn't questioning their status as niche titles today. There's no denying that. The reason they flopped upon release is certainly debatable though. There's also the question of whether these titles would be viable in today's market. As far as NiGHTS is concerned, the answer would seem to be no. I do think Sega dropped the ball with Journey of Dreams and even the HD remake, but at the end of the day, I realize people have a hard time wrapping their heads around how the game is supposed to be played and that a flying purple jester is a really hard sell to most people. Ristar and Burning Rangers though, I'm not so sure...

But I am talking about it from a purely sales point of view. Irregardless of where those titles found successes, they found them somewhere. If Burning Rangers, Ristar etc found success in one region, SEGA would have continued to develop more entries to those games. Sonic is a poor seller in Japan but that never stopped SEGA making more sequels because he was hugely successful in the Western world.

It all comes down to the budget. Burning Rangers was a larger project and would have had significantly more money and resources devoted to it than an RPG like Sakura Wars. Success within Japan alone may not have been enough to guarantee a sequel.

In any case my original point wasn't directly aimed at any particular game in the list but trying to justify a game selling poorly on the console it released on, despite said console having multiple successful games launched on it, disproves that notion.

Never claimed that being on a failed console was the sole reason for their lackluster sales numbers, but it certainly was a contributing factor.

[Chaosmaster8753]

So it's safe to say that this is basically SEGA's answer to something like Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures?

[jonboy101]

To whomever made the point, to say that third parties all did poorly on the GCN is absurd, as the GameCube was the console Sega was most consistently successful on during that generation, 2K games aside. Sonic's countless outings, Super Monkey Ball, Crazy Taxi, Phantasy Star Online and so on all did respectably. Super Monkey Ball (and its sequel) clocked well over a million a year before Billy Hatcher came out. The game flopped because it was a boy in a chicken suit, the marketing was bad, and the game was mediocre. It was half-assed at best, and it is only looked back at, even tepidly, because Sonic Team hasn't got a creative bone left in its body and Billy Hatcher is, I believe, their last stab at something remotely unique.

Burning Rangers wouldn't have been too big a project. It came out the same year Sonic Adventure did, and I think we can all assume which of those projects got the lion's share of Sonic Team's attention. Moreover, Sonic Team would have been developing Samba de Amigo and Chu Chu Rocket around that time, and presumably dicking around with Air NiGHTS.

I think you're missing the point with Burning Rangers; it wasn't a success, even in the land where the Saturn was successful. If it had been a success, even if it was just Japan, it would have had a sequel. Success in just Japan did mean sequels, because damn near any franchise that started on the Saturn was only successful in Japan - Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter (still seeing iterations today), Sakura Taisen, Virtual On, and so on weren't exactly blockbusters in the West, but they were still given multiple sequels across several generations. Even Panzer Dragoon - and I suspect that Panzer Dragoon Saga had a substantially larger budget than Burning Rangers - managed to squeak out another title after the Saturn.

Burning Rangers, as far as I can infer, wasn't a big budget project; it was just one of many things Sonic Team had juggling. Even in that context, it sold very poorly, even for a 1998 Saturn game.