Sonic Boom Discussion Thread (TV, Games, and Everything Else)

[MadeManG74]

Questions were submitted before impressions released, though we did phrase some questions with the intent that George and I played the game (which we will have by the time we speak). Can't share what was not approved, though they were generally the ones you'd expect to not get approved (nerdy canon questions, scrapped concepts, SEGA of Japan stuff).

I'll be interested to see your impressions of the game, will you post them up before the interview?

[Barry the Nomad]

I'll be interested to see your impressions of the game, will you post them up before the interview?

Here in the forums for sure, hoping it arrives early this week. SEGA is sending me a review copy of the 3DS release. I'm in the midst of a move, so the console version may or may not happen for me but George will be playing it.

[CrazyT]

I don't think you're taking this well, or even logically. Publicly apologising? What?

Sure they screw up from time to time but come on, there are limits to gamer entitlement. You can't just single out one instant (Considering each region is autonomous. SoA going on a license game spree had no bearings on SoE plans.) and expect that to reflect on the whole company especially since the month prior we got Alien: Isolation and just on the same day we're getting a Valkyria Chronicles port.

SEGA like all third parties are going to make bad decisions but I don't think you should factor in the Sonic franchise as an indication of their status.

Sonic 4's atrocity needs to be acknowledged by at least someone for them to gain back some credibility. The occasional average game ala sonic lost world is something I can enjoy and then ignore, but this is just too careless. I think bringing SEGA as a whole in this may have been unfair, but it shoudnt be a surprise that sonic is synonymous to SEGA for a lot of people. And even more when less stuff is getting localized, which makes it even worse because it is the last franchise established by OG SEGA still having a big enough audience in the west.

I think SEGA was trying to have something like skylanders. Lets say they did, the point they're missing is that skylanders is actually a very good game. The main reason why it became so successful.

Seeing as how the game is getting stealth released without review copies given away, I think realisation that asigning big red button being a mistake mustve occured a long time ago. At this point i'm not even sure if these are mistakes. Maybe the gaming leads need some sort of shakeup.

[Barry the Nomad]

The Sonic 4 stuff from you is kind of weird. I mean, you do realize that SEGA has put that series behind them and they are not going to issue a public apology. I don't want to be insulting, but please use your head. SEGA addressed concerns for Episode I in Episode II, and when that failed to sell and score as highly as the first one (which is a shame, because II is way better than I), they moved on. You are never going to see an official apology from SEGA for Sonic 4. Not ever. You might hear something from former employees, but I don't think Aaron Webber or Ken Balough are going to spend their time talking about or apologizing for games.

[MadeManG74]

Yeah businesses tend not to apologise for shoddy products, unless they are in some way illegal or harmful to the end users.

Sonic 4 looked like shit, but not so bad that it would cause me physical harm.

You might one day see a note from someone at Sega in an interview or something mention how the game was rubbish and they are sorry that it came out so bad, but not a formal apology.

[CrazyT]

The possibility of them apologising is obviously 0/100. It wasnt meant as a serious request, I meant that figuratively speaking. What I meant is that there should be some kind of sign or proof that SEGA's focus is making quality games. Sonic 4 was such a business driven cash grab product, it is hard  to not look at SEGA with a skeptical eye. And it wasnt a shame episode 2 didnt do well because that game may have not had the "instant halt when releasing D-keys" issue, but it had other issues with the team moves slowing down a lot of the flow and worse level design because of it.

Back to sonic boom. It just feels like insult to injury at this point.

[Aki-at]

I can't reiterate enough what Mang and Barry said, no company will apologies for poor products. They may say the end result wasn't that they expected or strive for but they are never going to come out with a formal apology and it's a bit silly for them to have to come out with that to regain some creditability. And even so, that's the worst way you can give someone creditability! What should give them back creditability would be good games and between the improvement in Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode 2 (Though not enough to consider it a good game.) Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations they earned that back until Sonic: Lost World that quickly lost it again. Action speaks louder than words and those two games restored some good will towards the team.

At the end of the day there is no sacred Sonic religion that means numerical titles can't be developed, you can do what I do and that is ignore them. They look great? Sure I'll try it out, they look bad like Black Knight or Sonic 4? I'll avoid it and I won't lose any sleep over it.

And I'd like to add SEGA America has a bad track record with trying to revive SEGA's IP towards Western audiences, Sonic Chronicles, Golden Axe: Beast Rider, AfterBurner on the Playstation Portable and so on, it shouldn't really come as much as a surprise (Even though for some reason it still has for others.) and this is what would happen when you effectively let each branch have their own control.

[Barry the Nomad]

Sonic Boom is a reaction to fans wanting more of an Adventure formula, and SEGA West wanting to revive the Heroes formula. So in terms of hurting Sonic as a 2D series or as a 3D series in the vein of Generations or Lost World, Sonic Boom isn't doing that. Though fans hoping for Sonic Adventure 3 or Heroes 2 or what Sonic 06 was trying to be will have to keep waiting, and I'm fine with that.

That isn't to downplay Sonic Boom's potential failure, but I think what the game means for SEGA should be taken into account. Not to mention it being a Wii U exclusive, which in and of itself is a failure regardless of the game's quality.

Personally, I'd like to see SEGA West stick to the All-Stars Racing series as their Western developing Sonic spin-off, and let Sonic Team focus on the console platformers. Handheld games have always been worked on externally, so I actually don't have a problem with that. I'd prefer SEGA try other devs besides Dimps to work on their 3DS games.

[MadeManG74]

It's not as if Sonic Team has been setting the world alight with their efforts either though.

I'm all for them getting other devs to work on Sonic, but... this just looks like a PS1/Saturn platformer level design. Surely someone out there could make a nice fast paced platformer starring Sonic.

At this point I wonder if Sega even care? Everyone sees sonic as garbage now anyway, the fans who remember his good days have mostly stopped caring anyway. They can churn out mediocre games and still make bank.


Think about it, there are far more bad Sonic games than good, it's just a bad franchise that had a handful of good titles at this stage.

[CrazyT]

Actually a lot of companies lately have apologised for bad products or mistakes. A big example had been diablo 3's auction house(and other minor things) for example. It's fantastic to get reassurance from people that they're human and do make mistakes, and are able to learn from them to make a better product. This has become more of a thing ever since social media and communication between dev and fans have become more popular since there's a lot of benefits from it as well. The only way apologies can go wrong is when they end up empty. It doesn't happen a lot, but those that did havent felt any negative outcomes.

But as I said I wasnt serious about it and am not seriously requesting it. What I meant was some sort of sincere acknowledgement of them stating that they're focus is quality with vague references towards sonic boom or sonic 4. I don't like the pride in which an Iizuka expresses when he speaks about these abominations. Actions do speak louder than words for sure though. Yeah I think I agree with that Aki. Especially when reassuring words lead to a bad product. In that case words can better not be said because of lack of confidence/uncertainty.
 

[Radrappy]

For all of you saying this won't hurt the main series' reputation, I must sadly disagree.  The average gamer isn't going to distinguish between a 3d Sonic game developer by sonic team and a 3d sonic game not developed by sonic team.  They'll just see another shitty sonic game on the shelf.  This title doesn't even have the advantage of being a racing game or party game to categorize it as a spin off.  It looks like a main series entry at first glance and a glance is all most will ever give it. 

At this point I wonder if Sega even care? Everyone sees sonic as garbage now anyway, the fans who remember his good days have mostly stopped caring anyway. They can churn out mediocre games and still make bank.




Think about it, there are far more bad Sonic games than good, it's just a bad franchise that had a handful of good titles at this stage.

I think those involved with Sonic Boom's development cared deeply about the project, at least at some stage.  The thing is a labor of misguided love and is incredibly ambitious.  It just had too many factors working against it.  The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. 

[Aki-at]

It's not as if Sonic Team has been setting the world alight with their efforts either though.

I'm all for them getting other devs to work on Sonic, but... this just looks like a PS1/Saturn platformer level design. Surely someone out there could make a nice fast paced platformer starring Sonic.

At this point I wonder if Sega even care? Everyone sees sonic as garbage now anyway, the fans who remember his good days have mostly stopped caring anyway. They can churn out mediocre games and still make bank.


Think about it, there are far more bad Sonic games than good, it's just a bad franchise that had a handful of good titles at this stage.

That depends on how you look at it Mang. The following Metacritics for the recent Sonic titles, Sonic & SEGA Allstars Racing 1 (78) and 2 (82) Sonic Colours (78) and Sonic Generations (77) indicate that there have been good games coming out for the franchise and in general fan/gamer reception has generally been positive; Sonic Generations was the 35th highest rated game on NeoGAF and 55th for SEGA Racing 2 (And before you ask, the trashy Sonic games usually end up around the 300th and lower mark!)

I know you aren't big on any of those games (And I have no particular affinity to either Sonic Colours or SEGA Racing 1.) but the impression with most gamers and reviewers alike have been there has been that there have been good games recently. The biggest problem has been though is that we seem to be heading into a decline in the series again (Or for some that decline never stopped.) and a streak of four good to great game depending on who you're asking wasn't about to wash away the stench of Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic the Hedgehog 06 or Sonic Unleashed.

(Plus the lowest rated Sonic games have done absolutely terrible salewise, so it is in SEGA's best interest to keep the games' quality level in check.)

But as I said I wasnt serious about it and am not seriously requesting it. What I meant was some sort of sincere acknowledgement of them stating that they're focus is quality with vague references towards sonic boom or sonic 4. I don't like the pride in which an Iizuka expresses when he speaks about these abominations. Actions do speak louder than words for sure though. Yeah I think I agree with that Aki. Especially when reassuring words lead to a bad product. In that case words can better not be said because of lack of confidence/uncertainty.

We will see from the next Sonic game they put out but it depends. For example you liked Sonic Colours, however I myself didn't and much greatly preferred Sonic Generations (Which you probably liked less than Sonic Colours and Lost World?) and that's the sort of division we have. At some point people are going to start thinking certain things in the franchise might not be for them, it doesn't mean something is bad per se, just different from what you might like.

Also Blizzard never apologised for Auction House, they just said they would be taking it offline for the betterment of the game and took about 6 months to implement the change.

[CrazyT]

They said, the auction house was a mistake and would turn it off if they could. Later those words turned into action and became a better game because of it. But I digress. It wasnt my attention to give so much weight to that statement. I really just want to know that these guys behind the wheel know what they're doing. So sort of an acknowledgement would be appreciated.

My perspective towards colors and generations is that colors had the better content, and generations had the better gameplay. So overall im with you on that (generations >colors).

I have a feeling the next sonic game may once again combine all the good things from previous sonic games. Possibly even sonic lost world's run/parkour button may be part of it. My concern is that they once again wont realise what was wrong with it (control wise).
 

[Sharky]

It's not as if Sonic Team has been setting the world alight with their efforts either though.

Oh no you aren't ganna tell me Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations weren't great games!
Have you played them? WERE YOU THERE?

[CrazyT]

I realise that I just want to hear more about game development from these guys. It seems that you only hear from the topdogs like nagoshi once in a while. I want to read in depth about iizuka's thought process on what makes a game good in his opinion. Not just "we did this because we thought it suits with sonic's character" or "we did that to make the player feel the speed". Surely making games should be more speficic than that? Especially when leading a team like Iizuka does. I... I just dont trust the guy being of any use tbh... But i could be wrong and he may have been the reason why sonic made a huge turnaround after sonic unleashed(i think he became producer after yoshihisa hashimoto left?)