Author Topic: New Star Wars trailer...  (Read 24315 times)

Offline JRcade19

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2014, 09:01:20 am »
The clone soldiers is a big problem..its now established that  the clone soldiers died due to limited life spans. But the ammount of troops that were created...there's no way the empire could replace them with enough storm troopers to maintain their dominance. That needs to be addressed really. Also another special edition to get rid of jango fett's voice for the storm troopers...in those films..

Lucas ruins all his special editions for some reason.

The Clone problem was addressed pre Disney purge, by games and a bit of EU fluff.
The only problems with clones was their aging, which was at twice the rate of a normal human.

They were sent into combat at age 10(20). The gap between the clone wars and Galactic civil war is only about 20 or so years, so any surviving clones, from the first generation, not counting the generations cloned afterwards would have been around 60 or so about that time. Most stormtroopers themselves were conscripts or recruits not clones, and that program started ten years before the Rebellion, ample time to replace an army in a galaxy which loves you(See Palpatine speech on Coruscant post Order 66 ).

I don't find it too hard to believe, considering that Fett himself was around 44 when he died and was an extremely fit individual.

But that's enough from me lol.

Offline crackdude

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2014, 11:55:17 am »
I don't understand what's wrong with the Stormtroopers.

They started as clones. Many died, many grew old fast.. But they were recruting at the same time. And they recieved more clones after Ep.II and III
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Offline ROJM

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2014, 04:08:29 am »
I don't understand what's wrong with the Stormtroopers.

They started as clones. Many died, many grew old fast.. But they were recruting at the same time. And they recieved more clones after Ep.II and III

You guys don't get it..the clones was mass produced. The republic/Palpatine/Sidious had the largest army in the galaxy. So when they did began dying off...there was no way he could replace them with just recruitment because the clones was too big..that's part of the reason the jedi couldn't just defeat them.
There's a hint of that in the first SW movie a new hope when the bad guys eluded to the reason the Death Star was around was to keep the other systems in check...and maybe that's why the rebellion got as far as it did because their was a significant fall of the imperial army.

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2014, 08:26:15 am »
I see no issues with the Clone to Stormtrooper transition - Prequels established Sifo-Dyas placed an order for the army without the Jedi's knowledge, giving Palpatine an army to combat the Separatists. The Clones were bred to follow orders and be the best soldiers, but the Jedi Generals turned the clones on to being more free thinking and individual. Palpatine planned for this with the Order 66 organic implant, which made both the Jedi's fall and the clones Order 66 trigger all the more tragic. Not only were many Jedi dying, but so too were the clones betraying their Jedi friends against their will. Post Order 66, clones began age out of service and Palpatine opened recruitment to all citizens of the Empire. This worked in his favor for a variety of reasons. The new show Rebels revealed that Imperial Academies used training as a way to discover force sensitives, sending hopeful recruits to the ISB to make a choice - join the Empire as dark side agents or die. Of course, being an oppressive regime, the Empire pretty much implies to its citizens that those who fight for them as Stormtroopers will be safer than those who don't. I'm sure Imperial officer's families don't get hassled as much or taxed as much.

Basically, I can easily see the Clonetrooper ranks being replaced with open recruitment of Stormtroopers in greater numbers. However, given the Empire is eager to recruit as many citizens as they can, this leads to less experienced troopers. This makes it easier for the Rebel Alliance to fight the Empire, as these aren't Clonetroopers they're dealing with. I don't see the Death Star as an answer to a dwindling army, as the DS and the DSII were under construction before the Stormtroopers even existed. The novel Tarkin notes that the battle station was being built before the Clone Wars even ended, which Tarkin found odd but he didn't much care to investigate further.

Offline ROJM

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2014, 09:45:13 am »
I see no issues with the Clone to Stormtrooper transition - Prequels established Sifo-Dyas placed an order for the army without the Jedi's knowledge, giving Palpatine an army to combat the Separatists. The Clones were bred to follow orders and be the best soldiers, but the Jedi Generals turned the clones on to being more free thinking and individual. Palpatine planned for this with the Order 66 organic implant, which made both the Jedi's fall and the clones Order 66 trigger all the more tragic. Not only were many Jedi dying, but so too were the clones betraying their Jedi friends against their will. Post Order 66, clones began age out of service and Palpatine opened recruitment to all citizens of the Empire. This worked in his favor for a variety of reasons. The new show Rebels revealed that Imperial Academies used training as a way to discover force sensitives, sending hopeful recruits to the ISB to make a choice - join the Empire as dark side agents or die. Of course, being an oppressive regime, the Empire pretty much implies to its citizens that those who fight for them as Stormtroopers will be safer than those who don't. I'm sure Imperial officer's families don't get hassled as much or taxed as much.

Basically, I can easily see the Clonetrooper ranks being replaced with open recruitment of Stormtroopers in greater numbers. However, given the Empire is eager to recruit as many citizens as they can, this leads to less experienced troopers. This makes it easier for the Rebel Alliance to fight the Empire, as these aren't Clonetroopers they're dealing with. I don't see the Death Star as an answer to a dwindling army, as the DS and the DSII were under construction before the Stormtroopers even existed. The novel Tarkin notes that the battle station was being built before the Clone Wars even ended, which Tarkin found odd but he didn't much care to investigate further.

Of course there is an issue..the numbers involved..we all know the clone troopers was a huge army..its mentioned numourous times even in the prequels. The storm troopers regardless of the recruitment drive could never get that number in succession..and more so it hasn't been officially explained or SPELT OUT that's what happened. And we all know the rebels were using imperial recruitment training to learn how to pilot a ship..use guns and other military training and then rejoin the alliance. So with that in mind the stormtroopers could never get those numbers..especially since they are estabilshed to be human and were not sure how many humans races on other worlds exist in the star wars galaxy.  I can tell you one thing..not enough to replace the clone army in the numbers and the time they needed to replace them.

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2014, 09:48:07 am »
But have Lucasfilm even given official numbers? Right now we seem to be just speculating. LFL could easily go one way or the other at this point. Maybe I can tweet to Pablo Hidalgo for an official answer, submit it for the question of the week on StarWars.com

Offline JRcade19

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2014, 11:05:12 am »
You guys don't get it..the clones was mass produced. The republic/Palpatine/Sidious had the largest army in the galaxy. So when they did began dying off...there was no way he could replace them with just recruitment because the clones was too big.

What makes you think he stopped making them after the clone wars? Sure he stopped making them eventually, but why are you specifically implying that he stopped making then soon or directly after the clone wars?
If they were dying as fast as you claim, then that should be MORE reason for him to continue the program. This would also imply that the cloning process got WORSE over time, which is literally opposite to canon where it only got better. There was literally almost no one left to oppose palpatine when he ascended power and he already had emergency powers from the senate even before he assumed absolute power.

What type of standing army just stops recruiting(or in this case making) new soldiers because they aren't fighting in a war? Not even in OUR world does this happen. Military recruitment is 24/7 war or peace time.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 11:07:29 am by JRcade19 »

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2014, 12:36:47 pm »
What makes you think he stopped making them after the clone wars? Sure he stopped making them eventually, but why are you specifically implying that he stopped making then soon or directly after the clone wars?
If they were dying as fast as you claim, then that should be MORE reason for him to continue the program. This would also imply that the cloning process got WORSE over time, which is literally opposite to canon where it only got better. There was literally almost no one left to oppose palpatine when he ascended power and he already had emergency powers from the senate even before he assumed absolute power.

What type of standing army just stops recruiting(or in this case making) new soldiers because they aren't fighting in a war? Not even in OUR world does this happen. Military recruitment is 24/7 war or peace time.
Rebels blew up the cloning vats.

Offline plumbersaccount27

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2014, 12:57:57 pm »
Hey...does anyone think "The Force Awakens" is a silly title for a new Star Wars sequel? I only ask this, because my older brother thinks so.

Anyway, I'm not getting my hopes up for this one. I'll just wait 'til it comes out on Blu-Ray or, at best, catch an early bird matinee ticket on the big screen.

Offline JRcade19

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2014, 02:44:45 pm »
Rebels blew up the cloning vats.

This is irrelevant though. The Assault on Kamino was one year before the destruction of the death star, which is still a nearly 2 decade gap between the Clone wars and the Galactic Civil War during which time the Empire could and probably did continue to produce clones(sans the Kamino rebellion 10 years prior which started the recruitment of non clones into the fold).

This also ignores the fact that the empire expanded cloning beyond Kamino that the rebels had to also hunt down.
Fett clones were a minority in the Empire by the completion of the first death star.

The rebellion itself wasn't really formed cohesively until a year prior to Kamino.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 03:01:55 pm by JRcade19 »

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2014, 12:53:14 am »
Remember guys, anything post-Episode III through to Episode IV has been wiped out. So any The Force Unleashed events you are holding onto can go right out the window. All that Kamino stuff you mentioned is no longer canon. As of now, the novel Tarkin and Star Wars: Rebels are your best bet for details on the Clonetrooper to Stormtrooper transition.

Offline JRcade19

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2014, 02:52:56 am »
The premise of rebels starts along.

Quote
"It is a dark time in the galaxy, as the evil Galactic Empire tightens its grip of power from world to world. As the series begins, Imperial forces have occupied a remote planet, ruling with an iron fist and ruining the lives of its people. But there are a select few who are brave enough to stand up against the endless Stormtroopers and TIE fighters of the Empire: the clever and motley crew of the starship Ghost. Together, this ragtag group will face threatening new villains, have thrilling adventures, and become heroes."

Pretty blunt of way of saying: "Yea the empire eventually dealt with most of its post-republic transition problems "

The Clone wars ended 19 years before the Battle of Yavin. There are 2 measurements for timelines that even Disney abides by.

BBY and ABY(Before and After the Battle of Yavin)


Tarkin takes place 5 years after the clone wars end which would be 14BBY and already makes old EU event references(though no Kamino or the like).
A new dawn takes place 8 years after the clone wars end which would be 11BBY
Rebels takes place 6 years after A new Dawn.

That would put rebels at 5BBY which was confirmed by the shows various producers. It is literally the same timeline without the old fluff. Tarkin alone can justify a transition based on descriptions of the imperial military actions and recruitment. Imperial propaganda also plays a much larger part in the rebels saga than what we were exposed to originally.


No matter what seems to happen, the answer is clear. Any problems the empire would have had maintaining a galaxy spanning military force were mostly resolved by the time of the rebellion's uprising in both the old and new EU's.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 02:55:53 am by JRcade19 »

Offline ROJM

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2014, 08:59:26 am »
But have Lucasfilm even given official numbers? Right now we seem to be just speculating. LFL could easily go one way or the other at this point. Maybe I can tweet to Pablo Hidalgo for an official answer, submit it for the question of the week on StarWars.com

Its been mentioned the reason the Jedi fell other than not being connected to the Force anymore was that the clone army over whelmed them..its been demonstrated in a lot of the material when the clone army attacked the sepratists that they have numbers on their side...

Offline ROJM

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2014, 09:03:14 am »
The premise of rebels starts along.

Pretty blunt of way of saying: "Yea the empire eventually dealt with most of its post-republic transition problems "

The Clone wars ended 19 years before the Battle of Yavin. There are 2 measurements for timelines that even Disney abides by.

BBY and ABY(Before and After the Battle of Yavin)


Tarkin takes place 5 years after the clone wars end which would be 14BBY and already makes old EU event references(though no Kamino or the like).
A new dawn takes place 8 years after the clone wars end which would be 11BBY
Rebels takes place 6 years after A new Dawn.

That would put rebels at 5BBY which was confirmed by the shows various producers. It is literally the same timeline without the old fluff. Tarkin alone can justify a transition based on descriptions of the imperial military actions and recruitment. Imperial propaganda also plays a much larger part in the rebels saga than what we were exposed to originally.


No matter what seems to happen, the answer is clear. Any problems the empire would have had maintaining a galaxy spanning military force were mostly resolved by the time of the rebellion's uprising in both the old and new EU's.



Nah it couldn't....again the galaxy is a big place...the clones was heavily being mass produced before the start of the war and DURING the war... So were talking nearly a trillion of clones. I doubt that the empire soley relying on recruitment that they would be able to even cover that.

Offline ROJM

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Re: New Star Wars trailer...
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2014, 09:05:29 am »
Hey...does anyone think "The Force Awakens" is a silly title for a new Star Wars sequel? I only ask this, because my older brother thinks so.

Anyway, I'm not getting my hopes up for this one. I'll just wait 'til it comes out on Blu-Ray or, at best, catch an early bird matinee ticket on the big screen.

The force awakens is a suitable title because there is no jedi or sith around anymore...its just some people that have the force but don't have the training to use it properly...the film title refers to two force users who are strong with the force and they wake Luke up from his "slumber" of the force..but he has to decide what to do about it..and bring balance to the force....which leads to bigger problems..