Author Topic: Sonic Colours Discussion  (Read 270318 times)

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #135 on: June 04, 2010, 10:16:55 am »
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Yes, but none of those games were as bad as Sonic Heroes or Shadow the Hedgehog. And even then you are overlooking the fact AM2/Suzuki still managed to make excellent games during that tenure with some of those poor games, whilst Sonic Team and Iizuka are going over a decade since the last great Sonic game.

I quite liked Sonic Heroes, Shadow was a pants granted . I not overlooking Yu roll at all. I'm just pointing out that some times even the best teas will produce crap. I really liked Sonic Unleashed, Project Rub. Sonic 06 was a true low point, but that's was thanks to the PS2 Shinobi producers being totally out of his depth  

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Again this man made a decade of bad choices, yes he wanted NiGHTS on HD consoles and everyone knows this by now, but that would have been an even bigger flop then it was on the Nintendo Wii

The point is not if it had been a flop, the point is more would it have been good. I'm pretty sure a full on Next Gen Production of NiGHTS II would have been better than the Wii game (which wasn't that bad imo) .

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Just because of the man's passion we should be thankful? Not when Orta, who is a major NiGHTS fan, cannot think of many redeeming qualities from the title

Orta is more than entitled to his or his opinion . Most Saturn fans are fans of NiGHTS. I didn't think the Wii game was that bad. There is only so much one can do, when their vision and plans are knocked back by team changes, hardware changes ECT.

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If Journey of Screams would've been released on PS360, it would have bombed even harder. At least management was wise enough to save money in this poor sample of fan service

What this boomed load of nonsense  ?.  I hear you're a BIG NiGHTS fans , that boobed hard on the Saturn, did that make the game any less appealing to you? did it spoil the magic of the title for you ?.

You can make fun of  Ikuza all you want , its thanks to him that the dream concept was 1st introduced in the 1st place . Naka original plan and the original test for his Flight game, was every different to what we know off as NiGHTS, and Ikuza-San is to thank for all that . The 360 and PS3 is far more able to realise  the dream world concept that the Wii, one can up with and display such a more well realised world , add in much better sound quality, and with a game like NiGHTS where half its appeal is its imagery/Art and sound that can make a big difference
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline Suzuki Yu

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #136 on: June 04, 2010, 11:10:03 am »
i am totally agree with TA regarding NiGHTS : JoD

aside from :

A- it should be on HD consoles , there was no any meaning for such a game that counting too much on art and visual style to be on Wii

B- the on-foot levels that was absolutely worthless . which was 4 levels out of 30 i think?


the game was really good , i don't understand the hate !


and man do i love the music so much
[youtube:r7vmdqdk]ArewlgpGUOo[/youtube:r7vmdqdk]

[youtube:r7vmdqdk]uDZZB7gWNu4[/youtube:r7vmdqdk]

[youtube:r7vmdqdk]q4DqO9PDw38[/youtube:r7vmdqdk]

[youtube:r7vmdqdk]p_6rxUrvo5M[/youtube:r7vmdqdk]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline fernandeath

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #137 on: June 04, 2010, 02:54:24 pm »
Does anyone want to predict the average review scores critics will give to Sonic Colors?

I guess it'll be something around 8/10 :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Orta

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #138 on: June 04, 2010, 03:46:53 pm »
Quote from: "Team Andromeda"
What this boomed load of nonsense  ?.  I hear you're a BIG NiGHTS fans , that boobed hard on the Saturn, did that make the game any less appealing to you? did it spoil the magic of the title for you ?.

That doesn't matter for management. If they shifted JoS from PS360 to Wii it was because they saw financial potential. But, if you release a broken game, things happen. Worse than that is the Wii's major audience, but that's an entirely different story.

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You can make fun of  Ikuza all you want , its thanks to him that the dream concept was 1st introduced in the 1st place . Naka original plan and the original test for his Flight game, was every different to what we know off as NiGHTS, and Ikuza-San is to thank for all that .

Maybe. Once again, speculation. After all, Oshima and Naka were the ones in charge. The final call was theirs, and that's what we've been discussing. I don't think Iizuka has what it takes to be a team leader. That is easily noticeable by comparing the games he was in charge of and the games he worked on in a less important role (leaving the decision making to Naka, Oshima or whoever). Any software team works with input from every member and it's up to the producer to filter those ideas... Probably that's what Iizuka is lacking: direction. This man said the homing attack in Sonic 4 is a good idea, for crying out loud...

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The 360 and PS3 is far more able to realise  the dream world concept that the Wii, one can up with and display such a more well realised world , add in much better sound quality, and with a game like NiGHTS where half its appeal is its imagery/Art and sound that can make a big difference

They made it come true on the Saturn. Hardware shouldn't limit your imagination, otherwise games would stay in development forever. See Shenmue for reference.

Quote from: "Suzuki Yu"
and man do i love the music so much

I agree with this. The music is great. It's the only aspect of the game that is on par with or is even better than the original. It may be because the people who were in charge of the music in the original also worked on JoS. I'm inclined to believe that's not an area Iizuka bothers much with (Sonic 4's horrendous music being further evidence). The music didn't even change according to the Pian's mood...

By the way, I bought a Nintendo Wii for NiGHTS Journey of Dreams. THANKS SEGA
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Sharky

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #139 on: June 04, 2010, 04:18:03 pm »
Quote from: "fernandeath"
Does anyone want to predict the average review scores critics will give to Sonic Colors?

I guess it'll be something around 8/10 :)

I would be more then happy with an 8/10 avg.

I predict it will be 7.5... Because your not a good critic if you don't say what your readers want to hear!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #140 on: June 04, 2010, 04:49:57 pm »
I think Journey of Dreams' soundtrack is actually better than the original game, but that pisses me off because it is just wasted on a shitty game.

As for an HD release of Journey of Dreams instead of a Wii one? I cannot believe people think the game would have been better this way. It would have taken taken MUCH more money to develop and produce (especially when you put in the extra time and effort into how much it costs just to port, think about the different disc platforms that require different plants to be made from). Like Aki said, the HD demonstration of it behind closed doors was poorly received anyways. Potentially the game could have been worse even!

I just cannot understand how anyone can say Iizuka can lead a team when with Barry's post it has proven he just has never lead a good game, but instead just would do other stuff on the side.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #141 on: June 04, 2010, 05:48:21 pm »
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "fernandeath"
Does anyone want to predict the average review scores critics will give to Sonic Colors?

I guess it'll be something around 8/10 :)

I would be more then happy with an 8/10 avg.

I predict it will be 7.5... Because your not a good critic if you don't say what your readers want to hear!

How cann we be predicting scores for the game already? We have a handful of screenshots!?

A prediction of 1/10 is just as viable as a prediction of 10/10 at this stage.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Autosaver

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #142 on: June 04, 2010, 06:10:57 pm »
Actually..

hype and statements saying Sonic Unleashed wasn't using Sonic Strengths, no gimmicks this time around, etc
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #143 on: June 04, 2010, 06:19:39 pm »
Quote from: "Autosaver"
Actually..

hype and statements saying Sonic Unleashed wasn't using Sonic Strengths, no gimmicks this time around, etc

They also said that Sonic 06 would be going back to his roots, and Iizuka already said that are adding 'Surprising new features' to this game.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Sharky

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #144 on: June 04, 2010, 07:17:53 pm »
Quote from: "MadeManG74"
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "fernandeath"
Does anyone want to predict the average review scores critics will give to Sonic Colors?

I guess it'll be something around 8/10 :)

I would be more then happy with an 8/10 avg.

I predict it will be 7.5... Because your not a good critic if you don't say what your readers want to hear!

How cann we be predicting scores for the game already? We have a handful of screenshots!?

A prediction of 1/10 is just as viable as a prediction of 10/10 at this stage.

Theres a pretty lengthy preview on the previous page...

Its a guess...  you cant possibly predict the sales outcome of games before they release either... but we still guess.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline fernandeath

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #145 on: June 04, 2010, 07:45:32 pm »
Indeed, Sharky. We can only make predictions of a game before its release hehe

Sonic's latest game has a 7.86/10 score average, as you can see in this link: http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/960423- ... index.html

Unfortunatelly, the director of Sonic Colors, according to one of those Nintendo Power scans, is the same guy behind Sonic & the Black Knight.
That means Sonic Colors might get the same 'negative' reviews... which would be a disaster!
http://www.gamerankings.com/wii/951327- ... index.html

:(
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #146 on: June 05, 2010, 02:20:35 am »
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That doesn't matter for management. If they shifted JoS from PS360 to Wii it was because they saw financial potential. But, if you release a broken game, things happen. Worse than that is the Wii's major audience, but that's an entirely different story

No it was because SOJ saw NiGHTS as a kids game . Not that a game failing to sell in expecting numbers,  or not selling at all is a true reflection of a game quality. Jet Set Radio failed at retail and I think it's one of the best games around.

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Maybe. Once again, speculation. After all, Oshima and Naka were the ones in charge. The final call was theirs, and that's what we've been discussing.

I'll never underplay the roll Naka and Oshima did  in NiGHTS. All I'm saying is the 'Dream' concept was Ikuza-san idea, the score attack gameplay is again thanks to Ikuza-san .

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That is easily noticeable by comparing the games he was in charge of and the games he worked on in a less important role (leaving the decision making to Naka, Oshima or whoever).

Naka was top dog on all thing Sonic , even when the likes of Shadow or Sonic Heroes was being made. I think Sonic Team more than most were hit hard by going 3rd party.

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Probably that's what Iizuka is lacking: direction. This man said the homing attack in Sonic 4 is a good idea, for crying out loud.

You can say that, When Iizuka directed over 170 people with Sonic Adv on brand new Hardware and in my eyes produced the best Sonic game made so far, and the best 3D Platform game I played. I can only speak for my self, and I have no idea with Sonic homing attack, its makes perfect sense in 3D, and seen no issue with it in 2D.

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I don't think Iizuka has what it takes to be a team leader
Yes that is a very hard roll to fill. Sonic Team have a history of not having the best Team leaders and not listing to outside complaints and issues of their games (from within SEGA) . To be fair to them, they have now mellowed.

And are serious about getting back to Quality.

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They made it come true on the Saturn. Hardware shouldn't limit your imagination, otherwise games would stay in development forever.

Of course Hardware will limit what a developer can or can not come up with :roll:  . NiGHTS on the Saturn was from the outset designed to run on that machine Sonic Team spent over 6 months prep  to see what made it tick, all the art , all the assets were desgined from the start to run with the Saturn's VDP 1 & II in mind and its Ram limits  . In 1995 the Saturn was an extremely powerful console  and Sonic Team made the best use of it
If for example SOJ cancelled the Saturn version and told the team to work on a 32X or Mega Drive SVP versions instead, we would have played a drastically different NiGHTS and maybe not one for the better .

I don't get the point about development for ever , when the 360 and PS3 were out when the planned NiGHTS  sequel started for development. All the tools and tech R&D for the teams were already out and widely known. To me a game like NiGHTS where Art, imagery sound play such a vital and Key roll. It was foolish and short sighted not to make use of the 360 and PS3 with their High Def GFX, powerful GPU's and 5.1 DTS sound  .

Not that I ever wanted a sequel to NiGHTS . Burning Rangers II is what I really wanted
 
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See Shenmue for reference

Maybe if NiGHTS JOD had 70 million dollars, 5 years of development time and moved up to the most powerful console around at the time . We would be be playing a better game . One will never know

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I'm inclined to believe that's not an area Iizuka bothers much with

The Producer/Director will lay out to the soundstaff what music they want in a game, what the mood and setting of the game is . They play a vital roll


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As for an HD release of Journey of Dreams instead of a Wii one? I cannot believe people think the game would have been better this way. It would have taken taken MUCH more money to develop and produce (especially when you put in the extra time and effort into how much it costs just to port, think about the different disc platforms that require different plants to be made from).

Who's saying anything about Ports ?. If a NiGHTS II had to made, It should have been made with Hardware best able to fully realise a dream world , like if ever there was to be a Sequel to Dragoon I would want it onthe  360 or PS3 and not the Wii. I don't get the Budget either .

NiGHTS was a Huge spend on the Saturn and the Team given higher priority than any other title in production and even SEGA Arcade teams . Maybe if SEGA were really serious about making a worthy sequel NiGHTS JOD shouldn't have been done on the cheap or for the piss poor joke that is the Wii

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They also said that Sonic 06 would be going back to his roots

Yes that was the original plan, until the Shinobi Team got involved

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That means Sonic Colors might get the same 'negative' reviews... which would be a disaster

If the game is rubbish then it deserver the bad reviews . If its good and fun, I'm sure it get 8's and decent reviews
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Offline Aki-at

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #147 on: June 05, 2010, 05:37:28 am »
Quote from: "Team Andromeda"
I quite liked Sonic Heroes, Shadow was a pants granted . I not overlooking Yu roll at all. I'm just pointing out that some times even the best teas will produce crap. I really liked Sonic Unleashed, Project Rub. Sonic 06 was a true low point, but that's was thanks to the PS2 Shinobi producers being totally out of his depth

Sonic Heroes was an absolutely terrible game and some could even argue worse than Shadow the Hedgehog in some regards. The level design was horrid soon as you go past the first two stages, the Chaotix missions were daft and tedious, giving hitpoints to badnik was one of the worst ideas in the franchise's history and still is, which is saying something and Bullet Station and Bingo Highway are amoung the most poorly designed stages that have ever graced a major SEGA title. All round it was a pretty dodgy title and no one really cares for it, not even the Sonic community anymore.

And the problem when comparing Sonic Team's bad games with AM2's bad games, AM2 also made some of the finest games alongside those bad games, what has Sonic Team done, a tech demo and a half decent game with the other half full of filler? It's not fair to give Sonic Team the benefit of the doubt when the other team made bad games too, they at least made great games alongside those. The last great game Sonic Team made was Sonic Adventure.

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The point is not if it had been a flop, the point is more would it have been good. I'm pretty sure a full on Next Gen Production of NiGHTS II would have been better than the Wii game (which wasn't that bad imo) .

Most Saturn fans are fans of NiGHTS. I didn't think the Wii game was that bad. There is only so much one can do, when their vision and plans are knocked back by team changes, hardware changes ECT.

How would it even be good? If anything, one can assume the game would have been anything between terrible to average due to Sonic Team's track record and despite you liking some of there games, the overwhelming opinion of stuff like Sonic Unleashed is a poor to average game.  It is merely speculation to assume it would be good, there is nothing to indicate it would be. And it still doesn't change the fact that the behind closed door demo was not recieved well at all.

You can argue the hardware changes some of the plans Iizuka and his team had had, but the fact is, Sonic Team changed one extremely basic gameplay feature, the ability to score attack. And this was not a hardware issue, this was, time and time again, design.

Then you can add in the horrible filler and the terrible cutscenes which again, are some of Sonic Team's major problem and they continually get exposed on.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #148 on: June 05, 2010, 05:57:32 am »
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Sonic Heroes was an absolutely terrible game and some could even argue worse than Shadow the Hedgehog in some regards. The level design was horrid soon as you go past the first two stages, the Chaotix missions were daft and tedious,

I quite enjoyed Sonic Heroes , and though the Pinball and Space levels were really nice and well designed. Shadow was just sheer pants though .

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And the problem when comparing Sonic Team's bad games with AM2's bad games, AM2 also made some of the finest games alongside those bad games

I'm just simply pointing out that even the Best Team and the best producer can make a very poor game .

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they at least made great games alongside those. The last great game Sonic Team made was Sonic Adventure.

I though PSO was not just one of the best Sonic Team games its also one of the best games ever made on any system . The game was magical . I also quite enjoyed Sonic Unleashed and thought Sonic Team Handheld output was of a very high standard , loved the Project Rub series, and thought PSO II onthe PSP and 0 onthe DS were well produce games and sign that Sonic Team is getting back to form.

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the overwhelming opinion of stuff like Sonic Unleashed is a poor to average game

Yes and most when you look at  the gamertag some of the biggest moans at Sonic Unleashed , its turns out most have never owned Sonic Unleashed, and I don't care for reviews they mean nothing to me these days . Give you a classic example most hit Blue Stinger for six, It was one of the best on the DC imo ,everyone took the piss out of PenPen , when I think its one of the most underrated games of all time . And I sick of trying to make out how great SEGA GT was onthe X-Box , when most piss take . Its a better game than either GT or Forza imo

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It is merely speculation to assume it would be good,

I know . I'm just saying for me a huge part of NiGHTS appeal was its imagery and sound . So to limit your self on a console with less Ram, worse GPU and Sound compared to the X-Box (ever mind 360) was just silly.

For all that I quite enjoyed NiGHTS on the Wii
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline STORM!

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Re: Sonic Colors announced for Wii/DS
« Reply #149 on: June 05, 2010, 10:50:36 am »
 Iizuka(LOL)

 Sonic Team is doing only what Sega wanted them to do, nothing else. They are just "supposing" this is the right way to do things now; the truth is that they still have no knowledge on what to do with Sonic or, how to make a awesome game, like the team did on the past.

 About the game, Sonic Colors on Wii is looking good at this point. Sonic Colors on DS is looking like the same as Rush series= poor.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »