The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America

[MadeManG74]

You know to this day I have yet to play games like Sonic Riders and Sonic 06. The only "bad" Sonic games I've owned and played are Sonic Heroes and Sonic Unleashed.

I wonder what fun would be had if I got to sample those, er, unique experience.

You never played Sonic 06? Not even a little bit?
Oh my days, I cannot overstate how bad that game is. It's literally the single worst game I have ever played. It's just offensively bad.

I still have trouble believing it got released in the state it was in. Not just talking about bugs and 'ha that's terrible' but even just some of the design decisions were bafflingly lazy or stupid. Most notably, Tails, the character known for flying with his tails can barely fly without getting tired (not to mention he's incredibly hard to control) but his primary attack? Not jumping like Sonic, not tail-swipes that worked in other games, NO it's throwing a 'Fake Ring bomb' at enemies. WHY? It's literally a ten-ring power-up that they've copy/pasted. When it hits anything it makes the exact same sound as when you lose your rings, and the rings even spill out everywhere like you just got hit.

Let's ignore the fact that it's the most lazy case of re-using assets ever, but WHY!? What sense does it make for him to use that no enemy robots or monsters!? You can't even use it as a decoy, so why is it disguised as a ring powerup when you just chuck it at something and it explodes on contact anyway? This game makes me angry just thinking about it.

[Barry the Nomad]

Let's stick to SEGA of America moving, if you guys want to continue the Sonic debate I'll gladly move all posts to a new topic. Or, we can drop the discussion and get back to the topic of SEGA cutting jobs and moving the US offices.

[Trippled]

I've seen some posts on concerns about Virtua Fighter 6 with the arcade division having some layoffs.

I think the layoffs were about the mechanical cabinet manufacturing and things like that...I think at the recent Amusement expo there really is only one video game that has a unique type of cabinet.
Most games simply have button/control stick layout.

So game development staff is safe, I assume. There might just not be unique cabinet to VF6 like in all the previous Virtua Fighter games.

[MadeManG74]

I also think VF6 is a popular series and of all the Arcade games to cancel, why would it be VF6 which has (limited) world wide appeal compared to Fantasy Horse Racing Simulator 2015: Heat Edition that requires unique e-Cards to play?

[Trippled]

There was a good conversation with AM2 of the evolution of arcades and costs versus oppurtunity:

Frankly, though, the traditional arcade game format - with joysticks and buttons - is by far the cheapest for retailers. In the past, we released a lot of games with gimmicks like motion chairs like Space Harrier and OutRun. You rarely see those kinds of games in arcades anymore because of the cost. Arcade managers simply can't afford that sort of investment. And let's not even go into the overseas market... it's practically dead. The market there is entirely redemption [prize] machines now. The users in America just don't go to arcades anymore, because they don't see why they should invest the effort when they have games at home. In Japan, you've got arcades near train and bus stations that the vast majority of the people have to pass going to and from work, so they get a lot of traffic.

So now you've got a smaller market. In the past, we'd get a good return on investment if we budgeted a lot towards the development and manufacture of those sorts of "gimmick" machines. But when you've got a smaller market, you can't afford to give those sorts of games as big a budget, and so you see far fewer of them make it into production. That's why it's so hard to get those sorts of alternative-input machines onto the market.
 Regarding the influence it has on our game designs, I think we touched upon this a bit earlier - about how budget and manufacturing costs affect the choice of machine construction and input device. For instance, when we develop new parts for arcade machines, we need to make manufacturing injection-moulds for them. If we produce 1000 machines that use this part, the cost for each is small, but if we make only 100, it's not cost-effective at all. When you have fewer potential buyers, it's already limiting the number of those machines you'd theoretically be able to sell. It makes more sense for us to invest in internet games than "gimmick" machines these days. The cost of server maintenance and upkeep has really decreased over the past few years.

[Aki-at]

I think Virtua Fighter 6 is a safe enough bet for SEGA to allow development of a current gen title, they supported Virtua Fighter 5 for what, just under a decade now? It's a series they know would require limited work to support for so long.

[pirovash88]

So.. Any idea where they're relocating to? I live in Socal, so I'm hoping it's close so I can see it in person and take pics like a creep..

[George]

No idea yet, they haven't stated as far as I know.

[Team Andromeda]

Your AAA bias is showing again. This isn't about a game being revolutionary or not, this is about SEGA producing content for core gamers

No you're just to spin you way out . For the last time 'content' doesn't make a game 'original' and every game ever made will have and feature some sort of content by definition. There's no new content at all in Ishi on the PS4 it's a just a PS3 game running on the PS4 which is nothing at all to get excited about.

it was a brand new production made by SEGA

Its a sequel on the PS3 and all SEGA done is bring it to the PS4 - That's hardly an original game and nothing more that a port . The same is happing for Yakzua Zero and its not like with 'most' cross gen games where the game is scaled down for the previous generation consoles (like with Fifa and so on)   Now I bet what most people would really like to see from SEGA Japan was either a brand new original IP  built from the ground up on the PS4, or at least a Yakuza game built from the ground up for the PS4 - Not getting either and that is why most people don't even care about SEGA Japan anymore - They're offering nothing for the SEGA core fans to get excited about much less anyone else .

Ishin is new content because its a brand new game SEGA made

Its a sequel and on the PS4 it's nothing more than a port . Halo 5 on the X-Box One will be an original entry in the series totally built up and around Xbox One tech , Halo Collection on the other had aren't original and nothing more that impressive ports there is a key difference . What next Sakura Wars 1 and II on the DC were original productions  and not Saturn ports and just Saturn games running on the DC.

If we take just the losses, Electronic Arts has lost $3.9 billion.

How did you get to that figure ?.

Again selective reading. I still stated there was 70 different games

LOL you for real ?. I looked at the link and it's not 70 games in one year at all . You come close to that figure if one starts to include the same game just on different formats and EA's Mobile and Tablet games .

The SEGA side is worth more than $4 billion, the Sammy side, which now owns a massive resort complex in South Korea, is probably double that. Nintendo would have to use up all of their cash reserves and than raise some capitals

Lol just face facts.. . NCL just through its cash reserves alone could be both SEGA and Sammy outright , but I wouldn't worry NCL aren't going to do that all .

For me a company investing in making core games is a company investing in core games, simple

Core games ? To me that's the consoles and that's where SEGA Japan come up way short . I doubt many of the SEGA fans left care much about the mobile platform tbh . It's not like all the major game companies aren't big on mobile gamming too , just unlike SEGA Japan they also have big console productions and plans



















 

 

[Aki-at]

No you're just to spin you way out . For the last time 'content' doesn't make a game 'original' and every game ever made will have and feature some sort of content by definition. There's no new content at all in Ishi on the PS4 it's a just a PS3 game running on the PS4 which is nothing at all to get excited about.

Again projecting.

What I said;

"The content's collapsed dramatically, that's undeniable."

At the time what was being said by other members;

"On the other. There's nothing to be excited about, games wise "

So please, the word content was as clear as day, it meant software.

Now you're hung up on the word originality as in, revolutionary or innovative, but not original as in new. As in Ishin is new by Streets of Rage 2 port isn't. So stop trying to spin my words to project what you thought I was saying.

Its a sequel on the PS3 and all SEGA done is bring it to the PS4 - That's hardly an original game and nothing more that a port . The same is happing for Yakzua Zero. Now I bet what most people would really like to see from SEGA Japan was either a brand new original IP  built from the ground up on the PS4, or at least a Yakuza game built from the ground up for the PS4 - Not getting either and that is why most people don't even care about SEGA Japan anymore - They're offering nothing for the SEGA core fans to get excited about much less anyone else .

You go on some unrelated rant again. Ishin is a new production, end of. It doesn't matter if it was made ground up or not, it's original content for player's to consume. I even had to ask a non-English speaker what new content meant and he came back with mobile, games, media etc not something that has to do with the technical side of things.

Its a sequel and on the PS4 it's nothing more than a port . Halo 5 on the X-Box One will be an original entry in the series totally built up and around Xbox One tech , Halo Collection on the other had aren't original and nothing more that impressive ports there is a key difference . What next Sakura Wars 1 and II on the DC were original productions and not Saturn ports and just Saturn games running on the DC.

How does your example nullify Ishin as new content. If anything your example is pretty bad, those games are several years old, they aren't new content.

Ishin released just last year and is new content. If it had a single SKU for the PS4 or for the PS3 it doesn't change the fact it's new content.

How did you get to that figure ?.

I did research, something you seem to overlook...

LOL you for real ?. I looked at the link and it's not 70 games in one year at all . You come close to that figure if one starts to include the same game just on different formats and EA's Mobile and Tablet games .

Right here. If I provide evidence and you laugh it off it just goes to show how you're unwilling to entertain a debate. Drop it and stop bothering to reply against me.

Lol just face facts.. . NCL just through its cash reserves alone could be both SEGA and Sammy outright , but I wouldn't worry NCL aren't going to do that all .

I am looking at facts. The market value of SEGA Sammy is complicated because there are many private investors too and the small matter of Satomi's 33% ownership of the company, they're not going to low ball the sale of the company now that their shifting gears into the whole entertainment industry.

And I never once said Nintendo could not purchase the company, I only pointed out it would be hard. Something being hard is a massive deterrence for company acquisition.

Core games ? To me that's the consoles and that's where SEGA Japan come up way short . I doubt many of the SEGA fans left care much about the mobile platform tbh . It's not like all the major game companies aren't big on mobile gamming too , just unlike SEGA Japan they also have big console productions and plans   

This year;

SEGA Japan
Ryu Ga Gotoku Zero

Konami
Metal Gear Solid V
Pro Evolution Soccer

Capcom
Resident Evil Revelations 2
New Ace Attorney

Square Enix
Final Fantasy XV

Yes, big plans indeed, only one more major game from Capcom and Konami and on par with Square Enix. Once the new mainline Sonic game is announced, sprinkle a few more bits and pieces of Hatsune Miku to combat Ace Attorney, they'd be on par in terms of gaming content. Big plans indeed from the other publishers.

[Team Andromeda]

Now you're hung up on the word originality as in, revolutionary or innovative

Don't try and spin. You said SEGA Japan had 3 original games for the PS4 . I simple point out a port isn't original.

Ishin is a new production

Its a PS3 game . The PS4 isn't original at all .

If anything your example is pretty bad, those games are several years old, they aren't new content

I love the spin and sorry you're wrong too . There's new content in Halo Collection in terms of a total remake for Halo II, Halo 1 being online and having on-line co-op play and btw HALO IV isn't even close to being 7 years old .

I did research

Is the same research that tried to make out the Wii U enjoyed a better launch than the Wii. Produce a break down of how you come the figure of EA making that loss .

Right here. If I provide evidence and you laugh it off it

You only get to 70 odd games when one counts the total number of platforms a game comes out on and also including EA Mobile and Tablet games. Go by that EA will be producing more that 15 titles a year ever now , simple has ...

I am looking at facts.

Good and the fact is NCL have more money in cash reserves than SammySega and that's before one plays the shares game.

Yes, big plans indeed, only one more major game from Capcom and Konami and on par with Square Enix.

Deep Down should be out this year lol






 











 

[Aki-at]

Don't try and spin. You said SEGA Japan had 3 original games for the PS4 . I simple point out a port isn't original.

You're the one spinning and arguing with me for some stupid reason. You instigated this debate because of some poor reading comprehension on your part.

I said original because it's not a remake, you want something with all the bells and whistles but you clearly not arguing from my points. So drop it and stop being so bloody dense.

Its a PS3 game . The PS4 isn't original at all .

Wither you like it or not it is a title available on the Playstation 4, you want it to be something else, fine, but that wasn't my point.

I love the spin and sorry you're wrong too . There's new content in Halo Collection in terms of a total remake for Halo II, Halo 1 being online and having on-line co-op play and btw HALO IV isn't even close to being 7 years old .

This coming from you? Oh please grow up. You're failing to understanding anything I said.

Is the same research that tried to make out the Wii U enjoyed a better launch than the Wii. Produce a break down of how you come the figure of EA making that loss .

You really are trying to turn this debate into something else, aren't you?

The Wii U had better sales in America and Europe from it's initial period than the Wii U.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_sales
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_U#Sales

My point was people like you, who only look at the initial sale and not the tail end of it, was gushing out how well the current gen was doing. That was wrong and you should take a look at the bigger picture. Of course you constantly seem to have a poor understanding but it can't be helped.

Here's EA's annual reports, go look for yourself. http://investor.ea.com/annuals.cfm

You only get to 70 odd games when one counts the total number of platforms a game comes out on and also including EA Mobile and Tablet games. Go by that EA will be producing more that 15 titles a year ever now , simple has ...

No you don't, you get 233 different items/SKUs.

Right in in 2014 it's 79 different items/SKUs.

So you're wrong here too.
 

Good and the fact is NCL have more money in cash reserves than SammySega and that's before one plays the shares game.

Did I dispute this? No, so stop trying to ignore my actual points.

Deep Down should be out this year lol

I would have included Deep Down but as Capcom has yet to schedule a release date there's nothing set in stone yet. I could throw in what, another Miku game, maybe a mainline Sonic title, probably another Shining console game but until an announcement is made, I'm going on by what we have right now.

So the big plans are infact, limited plans.

[Trippled]

Seems like the Arcade business is going to be Sega Interactive Inc.

Mobile=Sega Networks
Amusement Centers=Sega Entertainment
Amusement Machine=Sega Interactive

And then shareholders will be split from Sega and Sammy.

[Team Andromeda]

You instigated this debate because of some poor reading comprehension on your part.

Not at all. You were the one who tried to make out SEGA Japan had 3 original games for the PS4.

This coming from you? Oh please grow up

How about you get the facts straight ? Halo IV isn't 7 years old and there's plenty of new content in Halo Collection . Its far more than what SEGA done with Ishi on the PS4 .

The Wii U had better sales in America and Europe from it's initial period than the Wii U.

I think you find it didn't , in Europe the Cube had a better launch than the Wii U for starters . Sorry the Wii U didn't enjoy a better launch and its 1 year sales were nothing like that of the Wii .

Here's EA's annual reports, go look for yourself

And again I'll ask you to show where EA posting a loss of 3.9 billion . Or are trying to count the total losses of EA over the last few years ?

Did I dispute this

Like usual  you tried spinning. NCL have more than enough money in the bank to buy both Sammy and SEGA outright and still have billions left in the bank .

I would have included Deep Down but as Capcom has yet to schedule a release date there's nothing set in stone yet

Yes since you want to class content games (even if they're ports) Maybe you should have also included the RE HD remake, Dragons Dogma Online, DMV IV and DMC definite edition coming to the next gen from Cap's ?

 

[Trippled]

Sega's catalouge were +24% above expectations.

Seems like Valkyria Chronicles did it's part