East vs. West: Gaming in screen.

[George]

You wonder why people think you are weird. I think you just use double standards. Say one game is great, then condemn another for doing the same thing. Also, I can point at colors you pointed out on any other game and that means little to nothing.

InFamous has 're-used' textures? Really? So does Yakuza, No More Heroes. Its an open world game.

*facepalm*

[Sega Uranus]

I hate Call of Duty and Jet Set Radio. I am above the influence!

[MadeManG74]

Jet Set Radio features Cel Shading
CrackDown features Cel Shading.
CrackDown features a lock on system.
Red Dead Redemption features a lock on system.

Therefore Red Dead Redemption = Sega DNA.

[Sega Stylista]

I can't believe my expert analysis was rejected?  

Go wander through Yakuza and look how many times vivid blue is next to read. It's Nagoshi style; it represent heaven next to the sun or something really philosophical like that.

These guys get me on sega style and hardcore oldschool vs new mainstream gen:

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/jetset ... tradio.htm

Why did the game sell so poorly? Was it too Japanese for our taste?

Whatever the case may be, it's depressing that such a stylish game with plenty to do was not a consumer success.

What so special about the game then? From a technical standpoint, the original game had so much substance and soul that other titles only dreamed about.

Typical Japanese weirdness, if you ask me.

You guys are just impossible.  I give up.

[Aki-at]

I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with that quote, the whole way too Japanese for our taste is simply wrong because it did better here than it did in Japan, which was below the 70,000 mark.

[George]

Even more facepalm. Seriously? Are we going to take some guys opinion as a fact, when, as Aki said, the game did better here than Japan?

[Sega Stylista]

Even more facepalm. Seriously? Are we going to take some guys opinion as a fact, when, as Aki said, the game did better here than Japan?

George you just have realize that when I was on message boards with Sega fans of a decade ago everybody talked this way.  Now you newer generation have lost touch with that to the point of denying it all.

I am not sure what you are trying to accomplish with that quote, the whole way too Japanese for our taste is simply wrong because it did better here than it did in Japan, which was below the 70,000 mark.

Guys, you have to population adjust the figure by a factor of 3.  Pop Japan is roughly 110 million vs U.S. 300 million.  If that's fair.

I will try to find the actual numbers for comparison but your welcome to post them in the meantime if you happen up them first

[fluffymoochicken]

Damn, this thread is freaking awesome. Thanks for creating it, guys! ^___^

[Sega Stylista]

I haven't found the Jet numbers yet but take a look a this, George

Shenmue U.S.:

http://shenmuenet.proboards.com/index.c ... thread=380

It also sold moderately well, with 460,316 units in the US alone (according to NPD).

Shenmue Japan:

http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=394109&page=2

Dreamcast

29/12/99 [SDC] Shenmue (Sega) - 60.025 / 355.902

So, population adjusted-- Shenmue U.S. 460K vs Shenmue Japan 1.1 million (355x3)(population adjusted).

Guess, that ends the myth that Shenmue did "better in the west", no?

[Aki-at]

Guys, you have to population adjust the figure by a factor of 3. Pop Japan is roughly 110 million vs U.S. 300 million. If that's fair.

And below 70,000 would still be considered a failure in Japan, major SEGA titles, like Panzer Dragoon, Shenmue, Sonic the Hedgehog, Phantasy Star, Crazy Taxi, Yakuza, Virtua Fighter etc all easily broke the 100,000 mark. Jet Set Radio did not.

So where it should do really well because it is too Japanese, it does not. The validity of your quote is incorrect.

The truth is, Japan's tastes are as worse as America's depending on someone's view point, this is the country that bought more Turbographx than the SEGA Mega Drive.

[Sega Stylista]

Guys, you have to population adjust the figure by a factor of 3. Pop Japan is roughly 110 million vs U.S. 300 million. If that's fair.

And below 70,000 would still be considered a failure in Japan, major SEGA titles, like Panzer Dragoon, Shenmue, Sonic the Hedgehog, Phantasy Star, Crazy Taxi, Yakuza, Virtua Fighter etc all easily broke the 100,000 mark. Jet Set Radio did not.

So where it should do really well because it is too Japanese, it does not. The validity of your quote is incorrect.

The truth is, Japan's tastes are as worse as America's depending on someone's view point, this is the country that bought more Turbographx than the SEGA Mega Drive.

Acknowledging those point there are other factors to consider like PS2 had been out longer in Japan when Jet released there, plus, actually, while the style is Japanese the urban skater concept is definitely western.

Take a look at this:

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Dreamcast

As of 2007, the Dreamcast has sold 10.6 million units; 4.28 million in North America, 2.32 million in Japan, and 1.97 million in Europe

Population adjusted DC did better in Japan than America.

[George]

Still MORE people got up out of their house, got a 'hardcore Dreamcast' machine and bought JSR in America. No arguments.

[Sega Stylista]

Still MORE people got up out of their house, got a 'hardcore Dreamcast' machine and bought JSR in America. No arguments.

You fail basic sales analysis if you are going to discount population size as a market variable. You would get an F on a marketing test that way, seriously.

Your myths are starting to disolve, friend. . .

George,

I found these just for you.

Gaming Age (most pop gaming forum on internet at the time) archive threads from 10 years ago:

Dreamcast starting to go mainstream?

http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/baseme ... 4-2000.htm

"Are you sure he wasn't a Sega fanboy? I would be in total shock to hear a casual gamer say something like that. I thought mainstream gamers all hate Sega?"

"I'm really loking forward to sega becoming more mainstream though."

"I really hope the DC takes off in a major way. It's quite possibly the best system I've ever bought, and I'd hate to see it die because of the masses mindlessly buying PS2."

http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/baseme ... 6-2000.htm

I can't wait until the hype can finally diminish. That will happen with the PS2 launch. The people who say it blows the DC away graphically (I'm not even talking about the people in this forum, just general mainstreamers) will finally be able to compare the systems.

But don't get all whiny on me now Sony fans, I'm well aware that the PS2 will hold the mainstream marketand sell a lot of systems.

Welcome to a consumer-based culture. Hoo-ray!

The PS2 won't stop being in gross demand for eons, now. The 10% of the potential purchasing audience that has some degree of savviness will probably opt for a DC this season (chances are they already have one, though), but the PS2 is a frickin' runaway train, now. Take that metaphor as you will.

George,

I offer this as conclusive evidential proof that a decade ago gaming was still a niche industry with hardcore gamers being part of a subculture that was on the verge of going mainstream big time with Sony and PS2.  As you can clearly and plainly see there was a clear divide in the minds of the old Sega fans between the old gaming where Sega was the hardcore favorite and the new mainstream gaming of PS2 that threatened it. PS2 won and Sega and DC was a casualty of the new mainstream core gaming audiences.

CASE CLOSED.

[George]

East,

You are delusional. If SEGA is ahead of their time, then gaming right now is what SEGA wanted it to be. No?

End of. No more SEGA vs. Sony. I don't care.

[Sega Stylista]

East,
You are delusional. If SEGA is ahead of their time, then gaming right now is what SEGA wanted it to be. No?

Bland games, no style, casual gameplay, big-budget, sequels? Maybe that is what the management wanted but not the artists that made the games.

I don't think they wanted MS and Sony dominating which is what any hardcore gamer a decade ago could see was going to happen with a little insight.

If gaming is what Sega wanted why did it get taken over by a gambling company, have it's key artists leave and relegated to churning out crappy Sonic games being a small player in western and eastern publishing markets.

You've never played Segagaga, what I go on about here is identical to the conversations between the management and game creator NPC's

Ignore the evidence :roll:

End of. No more SEGA vs. Sony. I don't care.

You should care if you are a real Sega fan and want to help the company back to its glory, but maybe you're just a Sony guy mysteriously writing for a Sega site.

Does that make any sense?  Maybe you could explain it for me?

Here, this is interesting:

http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/baseme ... 4-2003.htm

TONY HAWK PRO SKATER   May-00   CRAVE ENTERTAINMENT   30   338,547
1968   DC   TONY HAWKS PRO SKATER2   Nov-00   ACTIVISION   6   354,381
1144   DC   JET GRIND RADIO   Oct-00   SEGA OF AMERICA   226   291,609

The western mainstream urban skater outsold the Japanese one on the software makers console platform.