Author Topic: The State of the Earth  (Read 8139 times)

Offline Sharky

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The State of the Earth
« on: July 27, 2010, 08:36:37 am »
Quote from: "crackdude"
Text.

As Mademan said lets not turn this into a god argument.

But I must say you are wrong about one thing, In this day and age as much as people make out how terrible it is... The world is the most civilized it has ever been... ever. In many many ways.

Lets not forget the two biggest reasons for war are land mass and religion... holy crusades anyone?
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Offline crackdude

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Re: What Books are you reading?
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 08:51:26 am »
You gotta be joking me.. how can you say the world is more civilized than ever? There has never been so much war, so many diseases, so many natural disasters and so much moral degradation, all happening at the same time. And none of those things had to do with religion.

These days the war is all about the oil and political tension overall.
And you want to compare the holy crusades (which I believe were plain wrong and anti-biblical mind you) with war these days? Did you know that the last 100 years alone had more war causalities than all previous human history combined?

The world's messed up man.. The people are messed up!
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: What Books are you reading?
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 09:29:50 am »
War, diseases, and natural disasters are always going to happen.  Moral degradation, however, is a matter of opinion so I'm leaving that out of my part of the discussion.

Let's compare war, diseases, and natural disasters in 2010 to war, diseases, and natural disasters in 1310, 1410, 1510 and hell, even the 1940's. In today's world we have a general connectedness via technology and media. Today's world may have better weaponry but we also have a much more civilized way of sorting out conflicts. There are still battles and fighting, but definitely not at the scale of 500 or 1,000 years ago. There is little chance that North America and Europe would ever go into all out war with each other. Yes, North Korea and the Middle East are still problems. But the good definitely outweighs the bad in today's world in terms of war.

As for diseases, shits always mutating and finding new ways to fuck with our feeble bodies. Nothing will stop it outright, however medical science is always improving and keeping many potential diseases under control. Today's medicine > yesterday's medicine.

Natural disasters, again, will always be about. However, we have ways of pinpointing when many disasters will happen and where they will happen. Honestly, it's humanity's fault that we live in every inch of the globe. It's not natures fault that we live in deadly hurricane zones and volcanic islands.

Anyway, point I'm getting at is that Sharky is right. The world kicks ass right now. yes, there are problems, but they're sure aren't as bad as they used to be. Always look on the bright side of life.

Sorry if this isn't book related. :-/
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Offline Sharky

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Re: What Books are you reading?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 09:45:26 am »
Quote from: "crackdude"
You gotta be joking me.. how can you say the world is more civilized than ever? There has never been so much war, so many diseases, so many natural disasters and so much moral degradation, all happening at the same time. And none of those things had to do with religion.

These days the war is all about the oil and political tension overall.
And you want to compare the holy crusades (which I believe were plain wrong and anti-biblical mind you) with war these days? Did you know that the last 100 years alone had more war causalities than all previous human history combined?

The world's messed up man.. The people are messed up!

I don't know what world you're living in... But it's not the same one as the rest of us.

You could do with putting down those religious books and picking up a history book or 10.
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Offline crackdude

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Re: What Books are you reading?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2010, 10:57:54 am »
Quote from: "Barry the Nomad"
Let's compare war, diseases, and natural disasters in 2010 to war, diseases, and natural disasters in 1310, 1410, 1510 and hell, even the 1940's. In today's world we have a general connectedness via technology and media. Today's world may have better weaponry but we also have a much more civilized way of sorting out conflicts. There are still battles and fighting, but definitely not at the scale of 500 or 1,000 years ago. There is little chance that North America and Europe would ever go into all out war with each other. Yes, North Korea and the Middle East are still problems. But the good definitely outweighs the bad in today's world in terms of war.
Did everyone in the US blacked out in between 1939 and 1945?

Second World War alone:
Allies:
Military dead:
Over 16,000,000
Civilian dead:
Over 45,000,000
Total dead:
Over 61,000,000 (1937-45)

Unadjusted U.S. Cost
$288 Billion as of 1945

Axis:
Military dead:
Over 8,000,000
Civilian dead:
Over 4,000,000
Total dead:
Over 12,000,000 (1937-45)

Present Day U.S. Cost
$3.48 Trillion

Nearly 50MILLION innocent civilians killed isn't "a much more civilized way of sorting out conflicts".
And this was one war. Ok, it was the biggest, but what about the slaughter of innocent people in Iraq that's going on in a daily basis for years now? Is that civilized? Hell no!


"You could do with putting down those religious books and picking up a history book or 10."
Is this your punchline or just a sad remark on your behalf?

Natural disasters are happening more and more due to increased negative human activity in the environment. Some theories say that overpopulation of megacities alone could be the cause of some earthquakes. Due to the extreme pressure applied in a short area of earth crust.

As for diseases, there is increased medical care and treatment for most of them. But that treatment only reaches a fraction of the world's population. Most of people in the world is seeing diseases increasing and becoming more deadly while their medical services struggle to help patients with flu or diarrhea.

The world is getting worse by the second. You are showing a very narrow and selfish way of thinking. When you're talking about the World, you must take into account that for you to live better than ever before theres much more people living in misery.

Africa for example has twice the population of the US and EIGHTEEN times LESS money.
In the US alone, the 1% most wealthy people have as much money as the lower 90% of the population combined. Does that sound good to you? And this study was made like 15 years ago, it's getting worse every year.

Want more? How about rising suicide rates? The economical crisis? The increasing pollution? The increasing criminality rates?
And you think moral values are subjective? How bout the increasing number of subjective babies born from teenage girls every year?

In less that a century mankind has made more damage to the planet, killed more people and overlooked more corruption than in previous 6000 years.

And you're telling me the world is better than ever?

This might be the most depressing post I've made here, but it's the way our World is. Having good things doesn't mean the bad ones go away. And the fact that the media just wipes them out of our society's awareness just makes all this "advanced civilization" just look more and more hypocrite.

Mind you I'm not overlooking the good things that have come out over the years. I'm just pointing out the nasties that people often forget, but that are the reality of most of the population.
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: What Books are you reading?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2010, 11:23:18 am »
Yup, I'm telling you that right now, year 2010, July 27th on a Tuesday at 12:04 pm that the world is better than ever. 79 degrees, sun is shining. Great day to be alive. Go have a drink, get laid and chill the fuck out.

I'm not going to toss about numbers and try to justify why shit like WWII went on, but I can tell you that right now, today, shit like that isn't going to happen. The events of WWII was the boiling point for the world, caused by a number of problems that have since been solved or have been much improved. Like I said, majority of the Western and Eastern world is run by people who would rather sit at a table to discuss problems than kill millions in genocide and slap each other around on a battle field. Sure bad eggs exist (North Korea, Taliban) but you have to have the bad to have the good.

Today > 1930's and 40's.

Quote
Want more?

Sure.
Quote
How about rising suicide rates?

Raising population = raising suicide rates. If more people exist, then more opportunities for depressed folks to cut things short on their own. The remedy? Families and friends should be more aware of the signs and get those they know help.
Quote
The economical crisis?
Economy always goes up and down, it's how it works. It sucks, sure, but that's how it works.
Quote
The increasing pollution?
Increasing awareness of pollution =
Quote
The increasing criminality rates?
Sigh... more people = more crime.
Quote
And you think moral values are subjective?
Yup! One man's gay pride parade is another man's step backwards for humanity. Not saying you or I are one or the other, just pointing out that morals ARE subjective. THat's why their morals. If they weren't subjective they would be truths.
Quote
How bout the increasing number of subjective babies born from teenage girls every year?
Higher population = higher risk. Also, families should be more open about using protection.

All your arguments are coming down to "things are more now than they were in the past", well no fuckity shit. The world is growing, stuff like that happens. Despite that fact, politically and socially the world has never been more connected and (for the most part) free. Also, the world has never been more AWARE of common problems. Sure they may exist, but we know they exist and are taking action in correcting them.

Honestly, if you really think the world is as fucked up as you say it is, then get off the internet and help someone.
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Offline crackdude

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Re: What Books are you reading?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2010, 12:03:38 pm »
"Honestly, if you really think the world is as fucked up as you say it is, then get off the internet and help someone."
Well, that's my plan :)

Thing is as the world is getting bigger, it isn't getting better and that just makes it worse. So many resources that could be used to help out the needed are being used to get the powerful even more power.

That's why I don't get how you guys can say the world is better than ever. For us personally, undoubtedly. For most people, not by a long shot.

"politically and socially the world has never been more connected"
This though isn't true. [EDIT: It never is. Check out chronicles and reports on the first half of 1914 (just before WWI) and you'll see most of them stating the same things you are, and we all know how that turned out...it only took literally a couple of bullets to start a war.]
"The events of WWII was the boiling point for the world, caused by a number of problems that have since been solved or have been much improved."
This shows you have great conviction and trust in our political system. I don't. And we both could get arguments for our opinions, but I don't think it's worth it right now.. :)

I am chilled though.. I sometimes may come out looking angry or something, but it's just my way of using argumentation.. I love talking to you guys and it's all in good spirit!

Sorry it just doesn't have nothing to do with books.
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2010, 03:03:23 pm »
Most wars are not caused by religion, that really gets my goat when people claim that...
Religion is often PART of some wars, as any difference of opinion/culture would be, but it's not nearly as bad as Sharky makes it out to be.

He listed the Crusades, which is what, 11 wars out of hundreds/thousands? Even the Crusades were not really as religiously motivated as people make out. Religion was what they used to gain support for the wars, but many of the crusades were more motivated by gaining control of the Silk Road or other trade routes, or to unify warring nations in Europe against a common enemy.

Take it from someone who has worked with the Catholic Church's charities, religion can be a very good thing in this world. There were literally hundreds of people and branches throughout the state and country all helping out anyone who needed it. Even within the organisations there were people of all different faiths working together. It's a far cry from the way many people depict religion.
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Offline Emmett The Crab

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2010, 04:02:03 pm »
I disagree about religion's part in the crusades.  The Children's' Crusade saw them marching children to their deaths, using them as human shields because god would never allow the children to be harmed.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2010, 04:12:00 pm »
Ok let me reword it, many, many wars are in part caused by religion, backed by religion or in the name of religion.

Crackdude why are you using thing that happened in the past to try to justify that today, right now the world is in the worst situation its ever been in...

average life span has gone up.
Median household wealth has doubled since 1965.
The fraction of the population living in poverty is falling,
As are teen drinking, drug use, and pregnancies, the only reason it sounds bad now is because in the past these things were common and the health risks were unknown so it wasn’t an issue.

People have never lived so well as they do today... Think of all the mod cons we have people just didn’t have, even 60 years ago. Hell even 30!

The chances of another World War are pretty slim, Was in Europe or America is almost certainly never going to happen again unless something huge and unforeseen happens in the future. But a few hundred years ago Europe was a war zone... Forget World War 2... How about both 100 year wars? How about the Dark Ages? How about dying as a child from things that now are considered a mild complaint due to modern medicine?

Hell, you say you read the bible... Was Jesus not tortured and killed by the Romans for having different beliefs? And you tell me the world is a worse place NOW then it's ever been?

Hell how about being able to take a poop with out walking to the bottom of the garden in the middle of the night because the outhouse isnt connected to the main house since theres no sewerage system yet? Thats only 80 years ago.

And lets not forget woman have never ever, EVER had it better then they do today.
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Offline crackdude

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2010, 05:14:13 pm »
As I said, for us (the "privileged") the world is getting better. But for most people it isn't.

Jesus wasn't killed for different beliefs. He was killed because the religious leaders of the time were at risk of losing their power and influence. So they tried to undermine Jesus preaching and eventually Jesus let himself "get caught" by them (as the prophecies foretold anyway).
But I get what you're aiming at.

Still, only the most fortunate people of the world have decent medical care, commodities and hell even sewer systems (or water for that matter). Most of the world lives in what is considered extreme poverty in the US and EU.

That's the issue. The world is great for some people, but most are in worst conditions than my dog. At least his poop gets picked up.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2010, 06:01:16 pm »
Almost everyone in the world lives better then they did 100 years ago... Even those who live in pretty poor countries have benifited in some ways from the world today... Be it medical, charity, well digging, peace keepers or as little as wearing western made clothes.

In the majority of places the most poor today are still living in better conditions then the most poor 100 years ago...

The world is simply a better place now then it ever was in general... It's almost absurd to argue otherwise... You've let all the whiney scare mongering media get to you...
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Offline crackdude

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2010, 06:29:25 pm »
"You've let all the whiney scare mongering media get to you..."
On the contrary. The media maneuvers everything on it's behalf. These are only my personal conclusions on the things I sometimes research about. Of course it is all very relative, the same way you would suddenly change your mind about it if a new war erupted I would change mine if I thought there was reasons for it..

I just don't see the world as the happy place you guys see. Of course my life is a happy and hopefully fulfilling one either way, I have the best conditions for that and I do use them for full effect.

I think I'm lucky, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. And our planet is full of great stuff too.
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Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2010, 06:38:57 pm »
Quote from: "crackdude"
And our planet is full of great stuff too.

Like SEGA Republic! :D
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Offline Sharky

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Re: The State of the Earth
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2010, 08:44:16 pm »
Quote from: "crackdude"
"You've let all the whiney scare mongering media get to you..."
On the contrary. The media maneuvers everything on it's behalf. These are only my personal conclusions on the things I sometimes research about. Of course it is all very relative, the same way you would suddenly change your mind about it if a new war erupted I would change mine if I thought there was reasons for it..

I just don't see the world as the happy place you guys see. Of course my life is a happy and hopefully fulfilling one either way, I have the best conditions for that and I do use them for full effect.

I think I'm lucky, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. And our planet is full of great stuff too.

So every reason we have given isnt enough?

So you actually currently believe that the world in 2010 is the worst its ever been?
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