Author Topic: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1  (Read 525049 times)

Offline CrazyT

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New Casino Street videos and preview
« Reply #1140 on: September 23, 2010, 11:52:10 am »
New casino street trailer video + preview from Joystiq.

Video:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/09/23/sonic ... eets-zone/

Preview:

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/09/23/sonic ... 1-preview/


I'm actually quite impressed :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Barry the Nomad

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1141 on: September 23, 2010, 12:37:46 pm »
I caught this earlier, very cool stuff! Posted it on our front page so we look like we keep up with whats going on.  8-)
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Offline crackdude

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1142 on: September 24, 2010, 02:45:05 pm »
What.

Last time I was here CrazyTails was angry at Sonic 4 and was raging pretty hard.. What changed buddy? :D
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SEG4GES

Offline CrazyT

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1143 on: September 25, 2010, 05:16:26 am »
I just care a lot less about the game and I also accepted the game as it is. Basically I cannot be dissapointed with that mindset, so every little upgrade is good.

I decided to support episode 1, since i've been lurking around the sega forums. Sega staff seem to be there and listening to us. If  that's true, I want to show my support for episode 1 and hope episode 2 will be good.
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Offline Orta

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1144 on: September 25, 2010, 06:23:45 am »
Don't let yourself be fooled. It's the community team's job. The problem lies elsewhere.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline CrazyT

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1145 on: September 25, 2010, 10:37:59 am »
I know..

It's just that this is all pretty new. Sonic 4 is the first game to have fans involved with the development of a sonic game, also resulting in the game to get delayed, and even though not ending the way I would have wanted it, still a lot has improved ever since.

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt with episode 1, hoping for a better episode 2.

If episode 2 turns out looking as cheap, still has the same physics, built with the homing attack in mind without having an option of some sort..

well let's see first :). There's a thread at the sega forums where ken balough is talking with us. He's talking the same PR bullshit like always, but that's his job ofcourse. Though for the first time we can at least tell him what's on our mind so he gets an image of what the general retro fans want exactly.

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=345559

I also posted a pretty large post over there, also a list of the things that I would like to see changed in eps 2.

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> Physics ofcourse: They should resemble the pinball physics of the classics or better. The physics were really a big part of why the classics were so great.

> An option to pick the classic sonic model. I never really had something against the newer sonic model, but sonic 4 just cries for the classic model, it would make the experience just a little bit more special for some of us.

> The homing attack should become a 100% optional thing. Stages should not be built with the homing attack in mind, instead they should be built without it. Almost nobody likes mindlesly tapping the jump button at enemy bridges, I think those who like the move, enjoy the random use at random enemies of the homing attack. Or if the developers would want to take this idea to a next level, why not adjust the gameplay a little bit for both modes. Like if you play with homing attack, enemy home bridges will be found, if you play without it, platforms take the place of enemies.
However the best choice if you ask me, would be to bring back the insta-shield The move he used to have in sonic 3(without an elemental shield).

> Uncurling. This is something that almost no one likes. Sonic should be kept in ball form when he shoots of a ramp.

> Speed boosters shouldn't be everywhere. I guess when the physics are fixed, they won't be nescesary. I'm all for level specific gimmick speed boosters like in
chemical plant zone(second zone in sonic 2). But a whole game where some artificial boosters do everything for you is just lame.

> Level design with less automation. This is kind of a follow up to the previous "speed booster" point. I've noticed how the level design in splash hill, and to some extent in other zones do a lot of things for you. I.E. bits where you go from speed booster to spring to spring to spring than home to and enemy, home again to zipline, from zipline to speed booster which makes you spin and kills all the enemies ahead of you and again to spring. It looks awesome of course, but it's a waste of having great level design instead. It makes you feel like the game is playing itself and doesn't let you do what you want, instead forcing you to take a certain path. I know that even in the classics there were instants where you'd blaze through a big sequence, but the stages overall were still requiring full input of the player. You'd still have a large portion of stage without them.

> The music. I think the music for episode 1 is decent. I like how they chose the direction of making the music sound as if it was made for the genesis. For episode 2 however, if they keep continuing this road, I hope the music comes closer to the quality music from the classics. Maybe have more people do the music instead of just jun senoue. As long the music sounds good, I don't mind the 16 bit sound quality that much. I actually love the genesis music chip.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Sharky

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1146 on: September 25, 2010, 01:03:29 pm »
Quote from: "Orta"
Don't let yourself be fooled. It's the community team's job. The problem lies elsewhere.

I know you want to do your best to dump on this game and the people behind it as much as you can. But don't make things up...

First of all the community team like Ruby do have quite a bit of say in the final product of Sonic 4... Why do you think shit like the minecart and the pinball level were turned into what could be some of the best levels of the game?

Secondly this Ken guy thats on the forum is actually a producers of Sonic 4.

There are some things that just can't be changed at this stange in the games development but they ARE listening and they are fixing as much as they can.

I'm not going to try and make you get Sonic 4 Episode 1 but this is still the closest thing too a classic Sonic game we have had in many years and far more steps in the right direction. Not to mention for all its so called 'faults' it looks fun.

I'll be buying Sonic 4 Episode 1 and I'll make sure I let Sega know everything I don't like about it so they can get one step closer to a perfect Sonic game with Episode 2.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline Orta

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1147 on: September 25, 2010, 01:17:40 pm »
Quote from: "Sharky"
Quote from: "Orta"
Don't let yourself be fooled. It's the community team's job. The problem lies elsewhere.

I know you want to do your best to dump on this game and the people behind it as much as you can. But don't make things up...

First of all the community team like Ruby do have quite a bit of say in the final product of Sonic 4... Why do you think shit like the minecart and the pinball level were turned into what could be some of the best levels of the game?

The negative feedback surrounding the strange minecart was so loud they had to listen to a POSITIVE change, for a change. Ruby also said the game would feature the classic momentum-based gameplay from the classics. That's a lie. He also said the homing attack is optional. Also a lie.

By the way, I do not want to dump the people behind this game. Just the one. He has proved he doesn't know what he's doing, he can't lead.

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Secondly this Ken guy thats on the forum is actually a producers of Sonic 4.

There are some things that just can't be changed at this stange in the games development but they ARE listening and they are fixing as much as they can.

He is not a producer like Iizuka. He sends feedback he gets from the community and that appears to be it. He looks like another PR guy to me. If he was actually a producer he wouldn't have time to post around in forums.

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I'm not going to try and make you get Sonic 4 Episode 1 but this is still the closest thing too a classic Sonic game we have had in many years and far more steps in the right direction. Not to mention for all its so called 'faults' it looks fun.

My idea of fun with a "classic" Sonic game is not press right and A mindlessly to win. I assume this is "classic" and not "Advance/Rush" since it's called Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

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I'll be buying Sonic 4 Episode 1 and I'll make sure I let Sega know everything I don't like about it so they can get one step closer to a perfect Sonic game with Episode 2.

Even if in the process you are likely supporting a broken product? Per what they said about "returning to the roots" of course, not as a game itself. I mean, if they sell this game a lot (and they will) they'll just stick to the same basic elements and make new levels... If there were no PR lies and no Mega Drive Sonic's I'd see this game in a brighter way.
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Offline Autosaver

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1148 on: September 25, 2010, 01:29:01 pm »
Its 15 bucks

****
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline CrazyT

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1149 on: September 25, 2010, 01:42:40 pm »
If that's true, just watch it get bad reviews.

Price+quality+content= around 5/6?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 04:46:48 pm by CrazyTails »

Offline Sharky

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1150 on: September 25, 2010, 03:50:39 pm »
Quote from: "Orta"
The negative feedback surrounding the strange minecart was so loud they had to listen to a POSITIVE change, for a change.
Ok so... They do listen? cool.

Quote
Ruby also said the game would feature the classic momentum-based gameplay from the classics. That's a lie. He also said the homing attack is optional. Also a lie.
Ruby is not the kind of person that would lie about this. He is probably a bigger Sega fan than most of us here... He was at the Sega forums as a fan before and he actually moved across America away from his friends and family to work for Sega. Maybe it was a mix up internally? Maybe he honestly didn’t detect any problems with the momentum and maybe you CAN choose not to press A twice and get though it with out using the Homing Attack?


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He is not a producer like Iizuka. He sends feedback he gets from the community and that appears to be it. He looks like another PR guy to me. If he was actually a producer he wouldn't have time to post around in forums.
What a load of crap... I have been on plenty of forums where developers, producers all sorts post on the forums... Hell even SOL from Sumo digital came to THIS very forum.

Also if he sends feedback... does that not just void your original post about how not to be fooled because they aren’t listening?


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My idea of fun with a "classic" Sonic game is not press right and A mindlessly to win. I assume this is "classic" and not "Advance/Rush" since it's called Sonic the Hedgehog 4.
I can get though acts in classic Sonic pushing just right and A... I bet you can't complete Sonic 4 just pressing right and A. But if you want to prove you can I look forward to the video evidence!

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Even if in the process you are likely supporting a broken product? Per what they said about "returning to the roots" of course, not as a game itself. I mean, if they sell this game a lot (and they will) they'll just stick to the same basic elements and make new levels... If there were no PR lies and no Mega Drive Sonic's I'd see this game in a brighter way.
The choice is simply,

-Buy this game and take it for what it is... A less then perfect but still closest to classic as we have had for many years. And hope that when they make Episode 2 they take complaints into consideration.

or

-Don't support this game, possibility of series underselling and they simply stop trying to make classic Sonic games because there is no market for it.

Will it undersell? Probably not. But fuck it, the game looks fun... Sue me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »
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Offline Orta

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1151 on: September 25, 2010, 04:42:47 pm »
Quote from: "Sharky"
Ok so... They do listen? cool.

They do, they have been for a number of years and they seem to pay more attention to the bad ideas rather than the good. Arch Angel UK's blog post telling classic Sonic fans to stop picking on newer fans makes me wonder about a lot of things.

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Ruby is not the kind of person that would lie about this. He is probably a bigger Sega fan than most of us here... He was at the Sega forums as a fan before and he actually moved across America away from his friends and family to work for Sega. Maybe it was a mix up internally? Maybe he honestly didn’t detect any problems with the momentum and maybe you CAN choose not to press A twice and get though it with out using the Homing Attack?

Internal mix up? What kind of excuse is that? :lol: Sir, I can choose not to use the homing attack but then I would be deprived of the sections of the game built around it. The homing attack is only optional inside your head. If it was optional then I would be able to enjoy the whole game without it. Not this discussion again. When the game is out feel free to record a complete run through the game without using the move and completely exploring the maps. I will gladly watch it.

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What a load of crap... I have been on plenty of forums where developers, producers all sorts post on the forums... Hell even SOL from Sumo digital came to THIS very forum.

Also if he sends feedback... does that not just void your original post about how not to be fooled because they aren’t listening?

S0L rarely posts here or anywhere else really. Either way, someone who sends feedback back to the development teams is far from being called a producer. I don't know what Ken Balough is producing in Sonic 4, but he's definitely not doing a producer's job. Not the way I see it anyway. As for the feedback, read above.

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I can get though acts in classic Sonic pushing just right and A... I bet you can't complete Sonic 4 just pressing right and A. But if you want to prove you can I look forward to the video evidence!

The same way I can show you videos of that being done on Sonic 4?

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The choice is simply,

-Buy this game and take it for what it is... A less then perfect but still closest to classic as we have had for many years. And hope that when they make Episode 2 they take complaints into consideration.

Hope. How can one hope if the developers are ignoring the basic principles of "classic" as you insist calling this game? Why hope for changes in "episode 2" when they had more than enough time to get rid of stupid things in the game like speed boosters and the rolling slowing you down? I would gladly take a strange minecart level over homing attack, speed-based gameplay in the whole game.

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or

-Don't support this game, possibility of series underselling and they simply stop trying to make classic Sonic games because there is no market for it.

There would be, if there was someone at the helm willing to do classic Sonic games. A speed-based mechanic is not classic Sonic.  

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Will it undersell? Probably not. But fuck it, the game looks fun... Sue me.

The game looks fun? Fair enough, just don't call it Sonic 4, call it Sonic Rush HD. That's what bothers me the most. I've been a Sega costumer and fan for nearly 20 years. I think I have the right to be negative towards something every once in a while, especially when what once was the company's flagship (and my favourite) studio is now the laughing stock of the industry.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1152 on: September 25, 2010, 05:10:24 pm »
Quote from: "Orta"
They do, they have been for a number of years and they seem to pay more attention to the bad ideas rather than the good. Arch Angel UK's blog post telling classic Sonic fans to stop picking on newer fans makes me wonder about a lot of things.
AAUK is one guy... a bit of a knob and a Sonic fanboy. That isnt much of an indication of anything.



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Internal mix up? What kind of excuse is that?
A very good one plenty of things get lost in translation when the company mainly Japanese speaking. This is exactly what happened with the Yakuza 3 content.

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:lol: Sir, I can choose not to use the homing attack but then I would be deprived of the sections of the game built around it.
So use it... It is still optional.

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When the game is out feel free to record a complete run through the game without using the move and completely exploring the maps. I will gladly watch it.
But I don't need to I don't see any problem with using the homing attack when needs be... So there is a couple of sections where you might need to use it. SO what? In Sonic 2 there is a couple of sections where you NEED to spin dash which you couldnt do in Sonic 1. What is even the big deal with it?

The main issue with homing attack is making normal enemies and the boss battles too easy... Which IS optional.

Do YOU even know why it is such a big problem anymore? Or has it become some buzz word for why this game sucks?

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S0L rarely posts here or anywhere else really. Either way, someone who sends feedback back to the development teams is far from being called a producer. I don't know what Ken Balough is producing in Sonic 4, but he's definitely not doing a producer's job. Not the way I see it anyway. As for the feedback, read above.
How often he comes here or not is totally beside the point. Do you even know how often this Ken guy has been on the Sonic forum? He only signed up 2 days ago and I doubt he has been on that often.

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I don't know what Ken Balough is producing in Sonic 4,
Bingo...


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The same way I can show you videos of that being done on Sonic 4?
Exactly... So it's just like the classics!

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Hope. How can one hope if the developers are ignoring the basic principles of "classic" as you insist calling this game? Why hope for changes in "episode 2" when they had more than enough time to get rid of stupid things in the game like speed boosters and the rolling slowing you down? I would gladly take a strange minecart level over homing attack, speed-based gameplay in the whole game.
You don't know the first thing about developing videogames. I don't claim to either but I know that changing/creating a level is much quicker and easier then changing the physics of the engine. Chances are they just didn't have time to go back and revisit all of these things for Episode 1.

If they go back and take the time to remove 2 levels and completely remake 2 new levels with some completely new features what makes you think they aren't listening or don't care. There is more too it then just 'OH THEY COULD DO IT BUT THEY DON'T CARE'



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The game looks fun? Fair enough, just don't call it Sonic 4, call it Sonic Rush HD. That's what bothers me the most. I've been a Sega costumer and fan for nearly 20 years. I think I have the right to be negative towards something every once in a while, especially when what once was the company's flagship (and my favourite) studio is now the laughing stock of the industry.
There is no rush meter, it is not Sonic Rush HD. It continues the story of Sonic and Knuckles... So it is Sonic 4.
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Offline Radrappy

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1153 on: September 25, 2010, 05:21:24 pm »
Quote from: "Sharky"
Ruby is not the kind of person that would lie about this. He is probably a bigger Sega fan than most of us here... He was at the Sega forums as a fan before and he actually moved across America away from his friends and family to work for Sega. Maybe it was a mix up internally? Maybe he honestly didn’t detect any problems with the momentum and maybe you CAN choose not to press A twice and get though it with out using the Homing Attack?

Yeah, I wouldn't get on Ruby's case about this.  There's a pretty good chance he has absolutely no pull whatsoever on the actual development.  Isn't he just community manager?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Orta

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Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4
« Reply #1154 on: September 25, 2010, 06:55:52 pm »
Quote from: "Sharky"
AAUK is one guy... a bit of a knob and a Sonic fanboy. That isnt much of an indication of anything.

Yes it is. And will be as long as he represents the company.

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A very good one plenty of things get lost in translation when the company mainly Japanese speaking. This is exactly what happened with the Yakuza 3 content.

Once again, what kind of excuse is that? A multinational company should and must be more professional than this. This argument is laughable at best.  

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So use it... It is still optional.

Seriously, I would appreciate you stopped insulting my intelligence. You have to use the homing attack if you want to take advantage of the whole game. Fact. And by that I don't specifically mean "use the homing attack" but rather explore the levels.

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But I don't need to I don't see any problem with using the homing attack when needs be... So there is a couple of sections where you might need to use it. SO what? In Sonic 2 there is a couple of sections where you NEED to spin dash which you couldnt do in Sonic 1. What is even the big deal with it?

The main issue with homing attack is making normal enemies and the boss battles too easy... Which IS optional.

Do YOU even know why it is such a big problem anymore? Or has it become some buzz word for why this game sucks?

Where have you been for the last 100 pages? There won't be a couple of sections. From the look of things, at least one of the routes in each level is bound to require the homing attack to be used.

Not only does the homing attack make the game easier (as you said), but it also stupidifies every concept of platforming there could be in a 2D Sonic game. There barely is a notion of precise jumping in this game. You press the button twice and there you are, going at full speed, no effort required. Worse than that, the spin dash is useless since the homing attack will give you a speed boost (if speed boosters weren't enough). Can you even get speed from using the spin dash? I mean, if you roll, you lose speed. In Sonic 2, the spin dash made some things easier, it's true, but it didn't break gameplay to the point of being mindless and automated. That is what is wrong with the homing attack. The homing attack only makes sense in a 3D game. Sonic is a fast character and precise jumping with a fast character in a three dimensional space is hard. Even in a slower game like Mario performing a precise jump can be tricky. So, do you have any decent argument as to why the homing attack is any good to a 2D game? Other than being OPTIONAL... Sigh...

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You don't know the first thing about developing videogames.

Yes I do. Any software project starts with brainstorming, video games are no different. If stupid ideas make past brainstorming, the end result will be bad. The problem isn't physics or level design. The problem is awful direction. There isn't much going back when the project starts having actual shape. It's not a matter of "they could do it but they don't care", it's a matter of "he doesn't know what he's doing".

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There is no rush meter, it is not Sonic Rush HD. It continues the story of Sonic and Knuckles... So it is Sonic 4.

There are speed boosters everywhere, rolling makes Sonic lose speed and there's the homing attack. There's more to Sonic Rush in Sonic 4 than the original games.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »