Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1

[Sharky]

Sonic 2 is set in a two dimensional space and has momentum based gameplay. Sonic Heroes does not. Sonic 2 is likely the best Sonic game ever where as Sonic Heroes is a piece of crap. Seriously, Sharky. I'll ask again, stop insulting me with those remarks. I expect better from anyone here.

And Sonic 4 continues the story of Sonic and Knuckles... So it is Sonic 4. Makes perfect sense to me.

I'm sorry you feel you're being insulted, I can only tell you it's only a videogame... Try and find the strength to get over it.

It's optional.  :roll:

But what is the problem with it? The only point you are forced to use it in any level is to take a new path which really DOESNT break anything at all in the gameplay.

The main and only problem homing attack caused was that it made it to easy to kill enemies and such... That... is optional.

[MadeManG74]

So if someone doesn't like shooting games, they might still love Halo, because shooting in that game is optional. Nobody is forcing you to use the right trigger, you can just ignore the shooting and use grenades, vehicles or good old fashioned platforming instead!

[CrazyT]

1. The homing attack is a lame crutch they made up for 3D that they never bothered replacing with something better because they're just lazy, and throwing it into 2D is just redundant and completely unneeded. It really shouldn't be there in the first place.
2. The homing attack is a game breaker in 2D. It makes the game so easy that it's not fun.
3. The "don't use it" argument is a strawman argument. Saying that you don't have to use it if it makes things too easy is a huge sign that it shouldn't be there in the first place.
4. One of the best things about the "classic" games was how you only needed one button to do everything, and every function was not redundant. The homing attack, on the other hand, is indeed redundant.

[Barry the Nomad]

Who are you quoting?

[CrazyT]

A quote from sonicstadium. Don't know if anyone agrees with it, but I found to be pretty strong. However not to come off as if I hate the game, because i've accepted episode 1 the way it is. I accepted episode 1 as a decent game, but still a failed attempt that's heading towards a brighter future. Basically what i'm trying to say is, if episode 2 doesn't fix the issues of episode 1, than they can stick those 15 dollars in their asses

See my previous post where I quoted my own post aimed at ken balough, of what I think would make the perfect episode 2.

[Sharky]

So if someone doesn't like shooting games, they might still love Halo, because shooting in that game is optional. Nobody is forcing you to use the right trigger, you can just ignore the shooting and use grenades, vehicles or good old fashioned platforming instead!

This verges on retarded. I expect to see this crap on some Sonic Message board but from you Mademan?... Come on now.

Shooting is the entire point of Halo... Is the Homing attack the entire point of Sonic 4? Is Spin dash the entire point of Sonic 2? No, that is ridiculous.

Maybe if you had argued that it's like playing Halo but not using grenades or not using vehicles it MIGHT be a good comparison to how much of an issue not using the Homing Attack is.

I feel stupid posting a counter argument to that post, how did you feel posting it in the first place?

[Sharky]

1. The homing attack is a lame crutch they made up for 3D that they never bothered replacing with something better because they're just lazy, and throwing it into 2D is just redundant and completely unneeded. It really shouldn't be there in the first place.

I would like this guy to come up with a better solution... I think Homing Attack is a good idea in 3D Sonic games. (Where it is also optional.)

2. The homing attack is a game breaker in 2D. It makes the game so easy that it's not fun.

So don't use it on anything BUT the 'enemy bridges' and suddenly it doesn't change anything...

3. The "don't use it" argument is a strawman argument.

Pot calling the kettle black on that strawman argument.

Has the entire world turned into some ADD retards that can't simply choose to do something or not to do something. Bringing back that argument about Halo. I enjoy Halo multiplayer but I can't fucking stand things like the Ghost so when I play with my friends we just choose NOT to use the ghost or the banchee... Because it makes killing to easy.

JUST like the Homing Attack...

Saying that you don't have to use it if it makes things too easy is a huge sign that it shouldn't be there in the first place.

Lets have a burning of all games that have an easy mode! MAKES IT TO EASY! Shouldn't be there in the first place! God forbid a Sonic game is aimed at children or people that would benifit from or even enjoy an easier option.

4. One of the best things about the "classic" games was how you only needed one button to do everything, and every function was not redundant. The homing attack, on the other hand, is indeed redundant.

[/quote]
Now THIS is a strawman argument.
You need to push Down and B to charge a spin dash from still for a start... Which means that no. Not everything is one button.

Secondly, Homing Attack IS just 1 button, pressed multiple times... (As if this is even a good argument.)

[Barry the Nomad]

I was reading on Retro that the homing attack only occurs when enemies/objects are below Sonic, so there is no way to reach enemies/items from below using the attack. I think that's a rather smart move, in that it doesn't make the attack as easy as it has been labeled as. I do agree that the homing attack makes certain attacks easier, but it's nice to know that it isn't all-powerful.

In fact, I'm starting to see the homing attack as Sonic's special ability in the same way that Tails can fly and Knuckles can glide/climb. I thought the insta-shield was actually rather shit compared to Tails and Knuckles abilities. Once all three are available (assuming they appear in later episodes) I think the homing attack will be less of an issue. (IMHO!)

As for this:

1. The homing attack is a lame crutch they made up for 3D that they never bothered replacing with something better because they're just lazy, and throwing it into 2D is just redundant and completely unneeded. It really shouldn't be there in the first place.

In the context of 3D games, this statement is wrong wrong wrong. Homing attack was very necessary in the 3D games. With all the possible directions that a 3D space has, it would be stupid of Sonic Team not to have a method in which you could target enemies in a 3D space. Without the homing attack, players would have to stop dead in their tracks and line up each attack, making for some very tedious trial and error gameplay. There is nothing better to replace a homing attack with, unless you're replacing it with an even more precise homing attack. That, or they just made the enemies massive and stationary.

However, a broken homing attack (as seen in Heroes and '06) is something I'm against. Either have a working 3D homing attack, or don't release the game.

[CrazyT]

Maybe it would have just been better if the homing attack was an actual option. Imagine if this game was default without the homing attack, and homing attack could be switched on for people who like it.

I don't think anyone would complain and I hope that this is how episode 2 will be designed.

My theory with the homing attack, is that actually nobody enjoys mindlesly chaining on useless bubbles that only stand there as enemy bridges. Parts like those could be made more interesting just by replacing the bubbles with actual moving platforms and old school bubbles(those from sonic 3 that used to move and have spikes come out of them) to hinder you.

I think people enjoy the random use on random enemies of the homing attack. I wish this is how they had aproached the game but sonicteam always seems to mess up some how.

This is why I say episode 1 is kind of a failed attempt in some ways, it fails to please the fans it was aiming for and the fans that seem to enjoy modern games more, allready have games like sonic colors ds and sonic colors wii.

The fans of old have grown older and have become pickier. I remember myself when sonic and the secret rings was anounced for the wii, and I bought one immadiatly just so I could play that game. It was a decent game but if it was now I would have never even touched the game.

Sonicteam is attempting since a very long time to appease people that don't just lay down their money for everything that has sonic on the cover. It's hard for me to even imagine how easy they went with a title like sonic 4(episode 1), just crazy that staff at sega didn't think "sonic 4 is a game that should exist of so much win, that we'll put all our energie into it no matter how long it´s gonna take."

I think episode 1's release date is coming close and i'm allready looking forward to get this all over with and look forward the effort they're gonna put into episode 2... since the community managers are doing such a great job.

I'm still cautious however.

[Sega Uranus]

So if someone doesn't like shooting games, they might still love Halo, because shooting in that game is optional. Nobody is forcing you to use the right trigger, you can just ignore the shooting and use grenades, vehicles or good old fashioned platforming instead!

This verges on retarded. I expect to see this crap on some Sonic Message board but from you Mademan?... Come on now.

Shooting is the entire point of Halo... Is the Homing attack the entire point of Sonic 4? Is Spin dash the entire point of Sonic 2? No, that is ridiculous.

Maybe if you had argued that it's like playing Halo but not using grenades or not using vehicles it MIGHT be a good comparison to how much of an issue not using the Homing Attack is.

I feel stupid posting a counter argument to that post, how did you feel posting it in the first place?

Nope, the whole point of Sonic is platforming. Meaning jumping from platform to platform, all the while aiming yourself. The homing attack moves you forward at full speed and even towards the enemy in attack formation. Potentially it is possible to beat this game with just facing yourself in one direction (having to turn yourself around when necessary) and tapping the jump button constantly.

You can say that making the game easier might be a good thing, it breaks the game when you do not even need to move or use any other kind of ability. Saying it is just like the spindash is a poor argument as you needed to stop, balance yourself and charge it up for a second or two. The homing attack takes out all of that and turns it into a "PRESS THIS A LOT TO WIN" button. Using it removes the momentum, the platforming and most of the general skill required in the original trilogy. Saying we should ignore it is the real argument that verges on retarded, that is like saying a fat person should not have weight problems because eating is completely optional.

Either way, you have just agreed it is not optional, and now changed your argument to "Well just do not use it!". Another poor argument. If it was truly optional or was made to make the game easier, then it should have been designed for an easier setting or something, like giving you less points or not letting you unlock the achievements. There are other complaints with it that have not been brought up, like the reticule or blur line, but when we get down to it, the facts are that these are just things that should not be problems at all. I am all for new stuff in the games, but not things that directly hurt what made the original trilogy great to begin with.

Hoping Episode II will be better is pretty sad, we should be wishing it could be anywhere near as good as this, but we are not, because we all know Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I is nowhere near as good as it should be.

Also, you suck at Halo.

[Barry the Nomad]

we all know Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I is nowhere near as good as it should be.

I'm all for debating Sonic 4, but I'm getting tired of this shit. Please, tell me what else I know! Because before reading the above sentence, I had no idea that I believed this! Really, it's just stupid to write "we all know".

[Sega Uranus]

we all know Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I is nowhere near as good as it should be.

I'm all for debating Sonic 4, but I'm getting tired of this shit. Please, tell me what else I know! Because before reading the above sentence, I had no idea that I believed this! Really, it's just stupid to write "we all know".

How about "All we know"? Well all we know is that UR A PECE OF SHAT.  :twisted:

But honestly, just because you assumed Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was going to be way worse does not really change anything... The large majority of people wanted better. In my whole argument are you only going to pick out and respond to me saying "All"? What? Assuming it was going to be way worse means you have less hope in Sonic Team than I do, to a degree... And that says a lot...

[Barry the Nomad]

I'm at work, so obviously I can't sit and read walls of text. I read what catches my eye, comment on it and then minimize the menu and do other stuff.

So now you've switched from "all" to "large majority"? Why not just speak for yourself and let others voice whatever their opinion is?

just because you assumed Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was going to be way worse does not really change anything...

Once again, you're speaking for me. Stop doing that. I never assumed Sonic 4 was going to be way worse. Did I even write that I thought that? For the record: I never expected a 2D Sonic game to even hit the consoles. Now that one is on it's way, I'm pleased with what I see. It looks unlike what I expected a Sonic 4 to look like, but I'm not against what has turned out to look like. It looks fun and I look forward to playing it. If something about it ticks me off, I'll gladly point it out in an article here or on my own blog in hopes that it helps shape upcoming episodes.

[Sharky]

Nope, the whole point of Sonic is platforming. Meaning jumping from platform to platform, all the while aiming yourself. The homing attack moves you forward at full speed and even towards the enemy in attack formation. Potentially it is possible to beat this game with just facing yourself in one direction (having to turn yourself around when necessary) and tapping the jump button constantly.

You can say that making the game easier might be a good thing, it breaks the game when you do not even need to move or use any other kind of ability. Saying it is just like the spindash is a poor argument as you needed to stop, balance yourself and charge it up for a second or two. The homing attack takes out all of that and turns it into a "PRESS THIS A LOT TO WIN" button. Using it removes the momentum, the platforming and most of the general skill required in the original trilogy. Saying we should ignore it is the real argument that verges on retarded, that is like saying a fat person should not have weight problems because eating is completely optional.

Either way, you have just agreed it is not optional, and now changed your argument to "Well just do not use it!". Another poor argument. If it was truly optional or was made to make the game easier, then it should have been designed for an easier setting or something, like giving you less points or not letting you unlock the achievements. There are other complaints with it that have not been brought up, like the reticule or blur line, but when we get down to it, the facts are that these are just things that should not be problems at all. I am all for new stuff in the games, but not things that directly hurt what made the original trilogy great to begin with.

Hoping Episode II will be better is pretty sad, we should be wishing it could be anywhere near as good as this, but we are not, because we all know Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I is nowhere near as good as it should be.

Also, you suck at Halo.

Ok so now we are comparing the option to use homing attack to fat people over eating?... Give me a fucking break.

Fat people over eat because they have an addictive personality, they use it for comfort or simply have no self control.

How does this in anyway relate to the Sonic 4 situation? My Christ...

Are you suggesting given the option to use the homing attack is too much of a temptation for you that you actually can't stop yourself from using it? It's so stupid that I wouldn't be surprised.

Also, you suck at Sonic.

[Sega Uranus]

I'm at work, so obviously I can't sit and read walls of text. I read what catches my eye, comment on it and then minimize the menu and do other stuff.

So now you've switched from "all" to "large majority"? Why not just speak for yourself and let others voice whatever their opinion is?

just because you assumed Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was going to be way worse does not really change anything...

Once again, you're speaking for me. Stop doing that. I never assumed Sonic 4 was going to be way worse. Did I even write that I thought that? For the record: I never expected a 2D Sonic game to even hit the consoles. Now that one is on it's way, I'm pleased with what I see. It looks unlike what I expected a Sonic 4 to look like, but I'm not against what has turned out to look like. It looks fun and I look forward to playing it. If something about it ticks me off, I'll gladly point it out in an article here or on my own blog in hopes that it helps shape upcoming episodes.

I am not going to argue the point when you said it looked "Much better" than you expected a few times in the past. You just changed it to "Different" now. The fact is you rather have "AMAZING" instead of "Looks fun". Why even go at me when Sharky does not even understand the word "Optional"?

Ok so now we are comparing the option to use homing attack to fat people over eating?... Give me a fucking break.

Fat people over eat because they have an addictive personality, they use it for comfort or simply have no self control.

No, I said fat people as in fat people in general. I never mentioned overeating or any kind of compulsive behaviors. It is also possible to be overweight and not have a problem.

My point (which you completely missed) is that just because the food exists does not mean you need to eat it. It is possible to live long periods of time without it, however our bodies are designed with needing food in mind so it is stupid to avoid it when it only makes our lives easier. I would appreciate you not spazing out next time and try to take time in deciphering my posts.

Are you suggesting given the option to use the homing attack is too much of a temptation for you that you actually can't stop yourself from using it? It's so stupid that I wouldn't be surprised.

...You are completely missing everyone's*** point still. The game is designed around the concept meaning that simply removing it lets you not explore certain sections and in a few cases makes some scenes potentially impossible. Having it in makes everything far too simple and makes many other abilities of no use at all, like the spindash actually making you slower even though you have to stop, balance and then charge it up for a second or two... Heck it even makes basic momentum pointless. It simply breaks the game given these examples, there is just no argument against it other than what me and Barry pointed out in the past, which makes Sonic's ability more apparent next to Knuckles and Tails' powers. Not really any kind of big deal.

You brought up the point with the Ghosts and Banshees in Halo. They are optional, but the games are designed with this in mind. In many cases when you can use them they will actually work against you, such as when you are in small areas or if your enemies have projectiles, many grenades or bigger vehicles. These in no way break the game, which is why I said you suck at the games. Even still, the games are designed with and without them in mind. It is simply better design overall.

My concept on a way to fix the homing attack in Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was if the blue shield gave him that ability. Instantly this changes everything and gives both sides of the argument exactly what they want. It is optional. It does not detract from the game. It actually adds to the exploration (you could back-track to find more sections). It keeps Sonic interesting compared to the obvious inclusions of Knuckles and Tails in the future. It makes it easier, but if you overdo anything you lose it right away, and many many other advantages. Look how easy it is to fix this concept. That is really, really sad.




*** Sorry if I mislead anyone into thinking everyone in the entire world had the same view.