SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Trippled on July 09, 2011, 01:23:55 pm
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Obviously not immediately right now, but I'm asking if they should of done it in like 2008 or especially after 06, and if it would have been better for SEGA's Image.
I think it would have been only natural at least when Plattformers became less and less popular than in the MD/DC days,and sidelining 3rd Party Plattforming Mascots happened alot also. And Sonic wasn't really everybodys thing when it came to plattformers,and many considered Sonic only working as a character and game at the time. So making it seem like Sonic is all what SEGA has and shoving it constantly in everybody faces made alot of people scare away.
Obviously have the games come out, but don't hype it unnecessarily like Unleashed and Sonic 4,like it's their most important release right now. Colors is how all Sonic games should come out IMO,and it selled well regardless.
Of course Sonic is what SEGA made today, and give alot of income. So it probably a terrible Idea and Thread,but I wanna know what you guys think.
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It sells the most, so from a marketing standpoint it makes perfect sense.
Considering the quality though, I do think it is embarassing. Sonic in the last 10 years has given SEGA a childish image they have never had, so it brings down their other franchises. Excess Sonic focus has also created 'Sonic fans' who do not even like SEGA, which seems bizarre. Mario fans like Nintendo, for comparison. Considering that, they probably are Nintendo fans who just associated Sonic with Game Cube, Wii, GBA, and DS.
So to be blunt: yes, they should stop, it brings in irritating people.
Alternatively they could drop the last 10 years of garbage and focus on quality, but I do not expect that.
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At least Sonic should be treated as equal to their other franchises.
I mean other than Nintendo and Microsoft, Companies don't really have a mascot anymore.
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Companies still have 'star franchises'. iD with Doom, Valve with Gordan Freeman, Apogee/3D Realms with Duke Nukem, et cetera. I do not think it is that uncommon. Even Sony seems to be going for Nathan Drake as their top character.
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Multiple ones yeah, but not not a Main-one I think.
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So you mean SEGA has no other series going strong?
I guess that is true besides Yakuza being popular in Japan. Others tend to do a lot of trilogies, unlike SEGA.
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Sonic has a huge fanbase, ignoring it would be stupid. Its obvious this is not going to happened and we know this due to Japan head ups always want everyone to know that a SEGA mash up game has Sonic in it too. That is why we get lame titles like 'Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing'
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I'm fine with Sonic being the main franchise, but I'd rather they let Sonic Team do other IPs. From Saturn to Dreamcast you would see the Sonic Team logo on another franchise and that alone would sell the game. Of course, they aren't what they used to be, so that recognition is less polarizing today. I don't completely blame them though, since they're locked into designing games around an anthropomorphic animal that has to run fast.
My favorite Sonic Team games aren't Sonic titles. I can enjoy a Sonic game like anyone else, but I don't personally want any more. The ones that I do enjoy (Adventure 1 & 2, Secret Rings, Generations) are enough for me. I feel the same about Mario too, they are great platforming games, but the appeal has run its course and I'd rather know what it's like to not see Mario/Sonic games as guaranteed releases every time a new system comes out.
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I agree. Sonic shouldn't be sega's main character anymore. To be honest the franchise is not what represents sega's quality at all. Whatever sonicteam aims for, the ending result is usually average. Sonicteam is probably the worst sega division at the moment.
So basically, yes and no. Yes if they keep sonicteam behind the wheel, no if SEGA decides to get new "talent" into the divison and get rid of the incompetent bunch.
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Well then who, pray tell should carry the torch? Yakuza? Valkyria? None of the other franchises sega holds are even recognizable to people who aren't big sega fans. So. . . yeah, not feeling it.
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In 2006 I would have agreed that the focus on Sonic should be lessened, but now I would disagee. SEGA may not have the consoles anymore, but they still have the mascot. I'd hate to see Sonic dropped. In terms of gaming, and not just marketing, Sonic has had an uptick in quality so I'd want to keep the series active.
Perhaps instead of lessening Sonic's presence or amount of games, SEGA should promote other franchises almost as much as Sonic or bring back more old IPs. Do the whole "Classic Sonic is BACK!" hype to an older franchise like Space Channel 5, JSR, Alex Kidd or Fantasy Zone... or Shenmue. I'd imagine maybe a PSN/XBLA sequel to a classic Genesis series handled by an apt developer. Think Sonic 4 but a complete success.
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@Radrappy
Hmm that's a good question. Super monkey ball was pretty great before nagoshi started putting lots of attention into the yakuza franchise ever since it's existance, but i dont think monkey ball would ever be icon worthy like sonic.
There isn't anything more iconic than sonic. This is why the argument bout sonic's character design not being importatant has always been a moot point, because that was exactly what attracted me to the franchise (classic sonic specifically). I think sonic just looks really good.
I just wish SEGA would hire some decent programmers. They managed to make the rolling better at sonicretro by hacking into the game. Stuff like this upset me, especially when the change required one digit change.
And then I look at all the other games made by SEGA that are built in such a larger scale and probably are way harder to make and still manage to be polished well built games within 2/3 years.
I guess the team just needs better staff but it's as if nobody really seems to care or maybe they're not aware.
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There isn't anything more iconic than sonic. This is why the argument bout sonic's character design not being importatant has always been a moot point, because that was exactly what attracted me to the franchise (classic sonic specifically). I think sonic just looks really good.
Totally agree. It wasn't the gameplay or the fact that it was a SEGA product that got me into Sonic, it was the character design. Of course, I really enjoyed the games, but I probably wouldn't have stuck with the franchise like I have had the design been shitty. Like Bubsy or something. Yuck. :P
I actually had a falling out with the franchise in 2004 when Sonic Heroes released, I bought it and really disliked Sonic's design. I liked the SA1&2 design, but Heroes just looked like a weird plastic knock-off. The fact that the game was so-so didn't help. After that, I sort of followed gaming news and saw the ugly fuck that was '06 Sonic. That iteration was even worse than Heroes. It wasn't until the Unleashed trailer that I spotted the much improved design and got back into the series. Now I actually am happy to see the modern design and will even buy a bit of merch featuring the current design. Usually I stick to the classic stuff. The 10" modern Sonic figure looks awesome, as does that exclusive 20th anniversary statue.
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I think the main issue here is that SEGA west gives most of its attention to Sonic. SEGA Japan has big budget advertising stuff for other games, like the Phantasy Star series and Yakuza series.
I think SEGA West needs to start treating their IPs like that with more care. I mean, if Yakuza 1 was actually handled right from the start, it could have been a 'pretty good' western IP. Even if it failed, I think Valkyria Chronicles, if handled right could have been the next been franchise for them. I mean, the writing and cutscenes to me where right on, the gameplay was fun. Everything that people hated about FFXIII is not present here.
Problem? Square actually puts a decent marketing budget for Final Fantasy titles. Don't say "Oh, dats kuz its a huge franchise in world wide" ... it wasn't always a huge franchise...They took a huge risk and put in advertising dollars for FF7 and now they reap the rewards of a big mega hit franchise.
SEGA is making money, put some damn marketing behind your 'new IPs', especially if they are going to be a multi sequel franchise.
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Valkyria is an anime game and Yakuza takes place in japan. They are very japan-centric franchises that will have a seriously hard time catching on in the USA no matter how much money you spend on marketing. FF7 came out during a different time. The climate was nothing like it is today. At that time, Japan ruled the gaming business with little to no competition from the west. Standards are way different in 2011 as far as what an ordinary western gamer is going to buy.
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YEah and Final Fantasy have tranny character designs are are as Japanese as it gets. So what? FFXIII sold over 3 million copies.
You say it was a 'different time', what do you mean? Anime wasn't popular, JRPGs didn't sell as well to warrant the advertising budget FFVII got. It had more things going against it than Valkyria Chronicles has now.
Doesn't make sense that 'Americans' are scared of other cultures. I think culture in games is what makes some more interesting. See Assassins Creed.
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When I say it was a different time, I mean as far as console rpgs go, there was no alternative. And back in the day, you being a gamer was practically synonymous with you being a fan of anime and Japanese culture. Not so much anymore. It's hard to appeal to both markets these days. Vanquish mostly succeeds, as does Resident Evil, Mario, Zelda, and Metroid.
FFXIII sold a ton because FF has a strong following that has remained loyal all these years.
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Being a gamer in the mid-90s meant you liked Japanese culture and cartoons? Haha, what?
Sorry, but that was too much not to laugh at.
Though on the topic of Final Fantasy: it was a well known franchise at the time. If anything, more open attitudes toward anime today have made it 'queer and nerdy', scaring off average gamers. The limitations of NES/SNES held the strange tones back when it initially became popular, but not so much today. Girly emotional boys with big swords shooting fireballs is not exactly something of mass appeal, and I do not think it ever was.
Overall I cannot see where this discussion is going. Do people mean they want SEGA to turn into Square Enix? Even Square Enix themselves are shying away from being known as the go-to company for Japanese RPGs. SEGA has never been known as an RPG company and their attempt a few years back was abysmal and embarrassing (like it should be). Phantasy Star, Shining Force, and Valkyria seems solid enough for an RPG franchise line-up, they just need to focus more on quality. Though like George stated, a few commercials around release-date would not hurt either. People do buy just about anything simply due to a commercial.
And a last note concerning anime. Personally I feel the Shining series needs to drop it and go back to the style it had pre-PS2. It is fine to experiment with a variety of styles, but they really ran this series into the ground. It is no longer true to its source material which seemed more like a goofy Dungeons and Dragons sort of atmosphere.
Phantasy Star also suffers from this, though not as much. The games need a more serious tone, I think, and be less effeminate. The men really do look like women now and they never did before, and I cannot figure out what those elf girl fashion diva freaks are wearing. These sort of things really turn me off of the series despite my liking for laser guns and robots. PSO and the 8/16-bit series seemed much more mature and approachable. So considering the view SEGA projects to people, Phantasy Star should be able to benefit it if the series goes back to its 80s and 90s style. Though even if they do increase marketing and resolve the style (plus keep Sonic Team far away from it), I do not think it could ever be a 'mascot series', but it should be bigger than it is now, especially considering its history and potential.
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Final Fantasy VII getting a huge marketing budget was definitely a risk that was taken, and it was a risk that paid off. It's important to keep in mind that Sony did help market the game, as they saw it as a huge snag at the time, having gotten the franchise from Nintendo. Still, yeah, Squaresoft and Sony of America put a big marketing budget behind a game that was part of a popular, but certainly not BIG, series. And it paid off. They knew they had a game that was something special.
I wish Sega would take similar risks with some of their software. They shouldn't let the fact that the game is "Japanese" prevent them from giving it a shot. It's true that Western gaming has grown and that more Western gamers seem to prefer Western games. But that doesn't mean there's no longer a place for Japanese games. Times have changed but not that much.
FF13 shipped 5 million copies worldwide. Resident Evil 5 was also a huge worldwide success, as was Metal Gear Solid 4. And Zelda continues to be. Obviously somebody is buying these games.
The question the industry needs to ask itself is: "how can we get these people to try out new IP?"
Anyway, as far as the topic goes. Sega should not drop Sonic, he is their main icon and though he's part of a dying genre, the fact remains that he's Sega's most successful IP. They've never been able to launch a similarly successful one. And he's the face of the company, for better or for worse. At least he's back to starring in decent games.
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Final Fantasy VII getting a huge marketing budget was definitely a risk that was taken, and it was a risk that paid off. It's important to keep in mind that Sony did help market the game, as they saw it as a huge snag at the time, having gotten the franchise from Nintendo. Still, yeah, Squaresoft and Sony of America put a big marketing budget behind a game that was part of a popular, but certainly not BIG, series. And it paid off. They knew they had a game that was something special.
I wish Sega would take similar risks with some of their software. They shouldn't let the fact that the game is "Japanese" prevent them from giving it a shot. It's true that Western gaming has grown and that more Western gamers seem to prefer Western games. But that doesn't mean there's no longer a place for Japanese games. Times have changed but not that much.
FF13 shipped 5 million copies worldwide. Resident Evil 5 was also a huge worldwide success, as was Metal Gear Solid 4. And Zelda continues to be. Obviously somebody is buying these games.
The question the industry needs to ask itself is: "how can we get these people to try out new IP?"
Anyway, as far as the topic goes. Sega should not drop Sonic, he is their main icon and though he's part of a dying genre, the fact remains that he's Sega's most successful IP. They've never been able to launch a similarly successful one. And he's the face of the company, for better or for worse. At least he's back to starring in decent games.
The thing is Sega kinda did drop Sonic as their main mascot during the Saturn era to disastrous results. The failure to really create a proper Sonic title for the saturn during its lifetime was part of the reason that the saturn failed in the west. They were trying to push titles like Clockwork Knight,NIGHTS and even BUG! as some sort of alternative to sell the saturn to consumers. Of course this "system mascot" mentality died out at the beginning with the DC era and Sonic returned as one of the first generation Sonic games which did boost Sega's chances with the DC for a while.
The real problem is how they handle such IPs. Sega, because of the ammount of games they make has a siseable cast of non offensive cutie type characters than Nintendo has, yet they don't necessarly take advantage of that fact, even with a title like SEGA SUPERSTARS you don't necessarly see all of them. And of course if they do start to create a new game based around one of these characters,it turns into the much maglinged NIGHTS sequel. Nintendo only seem to use mario for at least two main platform games and several spin offs like Mario kart each generation while other characters in their portfolio get used to fill the gap. I think that's what Sega needs to do is to really downsize the sonic spinoffs and keep it at a level of two or three main sonic games while updating or creating a new cutetype character IP to fill the gap but making sure its crafted to perfection ( on sonic and other games like ALEX KIDD or whatever character they would update or create) instead of just churning them out.
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SEGA Japan has seen Kazuma Kiryu as their mascot for awhile now, but this 20th anniversary Sonic stuff might change that.
George is right in that they need to focus more on other IPs and not just Sonic. Back in the day, stuff like Shining, Golden Axe, Ecco, Phantasy Star, Streets of Rage... Pretty much everything had largely the same marketing budget and were put together in bundles. Now there are Sonic fans who simply hate SEGA and want them to sell the IP to others. This can only further hurt the franchise as fans like that become more vocal.
I personally think they should move Sonic away from Sonic Team for maybe two or three major releases and let them focus on Phantasy Star, new IPs or something. A new group really might be what the franchise needs to give it new life and Sonic Team the break from the series they probably need. I guess Waffle said it best, the past 10 years+ of Sonic games has been embarrassing, even the good ones make a lot of people cringe and make the player look awkward.
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SEGA Japan has seen Kazuma Kiryu as their mascot for awhile now, but this 20th anniversary Sonic stuff might change that.
George is right in that they need to focus more on other IPs and not just Sonic. Back in the day, stuff like Shining, Golden Axe, Ecco, Phantasy Star, Streets of Rage... Pretty much everything had largely the same marketing budget and were put together in bundles. Now there are Sonic fans who simply hate SEGA and want them to sell the IP to others. This can only further hurt the franchise as fans like that become more vocal.
I personally think they should move Sonic away from Sonic Team for maybe two or three major releases and let them focus on Phantasy Star, new IPs or something. A new group really might be what the franchise needs to give it new life and Sonic Team the break from the series they probably need. I guess Waffle said it best, the past 10 years+ of Sonic games has been embarrassing, even the good ones make a lot of people cringe and make the player look awkward.
Kiryu isn't their mascot. For sure he's the star of their premiere franchise but not a mascot. Using that logic MUSHI KING would be their mascot because it was their best selling game series that Sega Japan was heavily promoting back in the mid noughties because it made a lot of dosh and it appealled to a lot of children. Sega japan doesn't heavily use Sonic as a mascot anymore unlike Sega of america and sega europe. SOJ seem to be focusing on franchises or creating them and not using a single banner to unify them. And that's the problem. The more franchise focus they become the more type of fans as ytou described they will attract. When it comes to the traditional Segafan IE like sega for most of their games they are getting smaller compared to the individual game franchise fanbase that has grown since the mid noughties. Sega managed to use Sonic to get their fans together but i will admit having their own system didn't hurt too. Now the only reason they seem to keep making Sonic is because it sells well in the west.
As for PHANTASY STAR well it seems that's exactly what's happening slowly but surely, Sonic Team are more focused on that series than they are on Sonic.