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Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: MadeManG74 on December 05, 2014, 02:59:51 pm
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http://shoryuken.com/2014/12/05/street-fighter-v-is-coming-exclusive-to-playstation-4-and-pc/ (http://shoryuken.com/2014/12/05/street-fighter-v-is-coming-exclusive-to-playstation-4-and-pc/)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2btlvp_street-fighter-v-annonce-pc-ps4-1080p_videogames
(https://media.giphy.com/media/TlK63ED0xRnn9uv0njq/giphy.gif)
Personally I think the graphics look a bit rubbish, and I'm concerned that it'll be the mess that SFIV was.
Discuss.
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And they've just released Ultra Street Fighter IV not to long ago. Welp, five more years of updates.
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And they've just released Ultra Street Fighter IV not to long ago. Welp, five more years of updates.
I don't mind updates myself (VF5 had 8 years of updates or whatever for example), but this game looks so similar to the last.
Consider how SF2 looked compared to SF Alpha to SFIII.
I'm worried they are going to phone it in with this version, especially after SFIV overall is a pretty poor series for SF.
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I'm not super in to street fighter but just curious what you don't like about SF4 series of street fighter games, MadeMan? As for USF4, I think it was always planned as the last hurrah for SF4 and it made use of transferable assets from SFXT (Hugo, Rolento, Elena, etc.) with little bells and whistles like edition select. I don't care much for updates (Guilty Gear of course will go ham with updates) but I minimize what I pay. One thing I don't like about updates personally is that I want strategies to develop and just generally have a more stable meta.
As for the graphics, well you know how lots of people during the early PS4/Xbox One reveal days questioned the graphical leap from the past generation to the new generation we have now? Well look here.=P
While I really like the look of the background stage, the character design seems mostly similar to SFIV. I'm kinda resigned to everything not being colorful anime like darkstalkers and SF3/Alpha series, but doesn't even seem like there's a design trademark like the watercolor emphasis from SF4. Personally I also don't like the zooming in for supers and freezing everything else, and something just bugs me about Chun-Li's hit model. It doesn't feel dynamic, she just freezes and takes the hit and it's kinda boring after having seen that already in SF4. The most I remember seeing is sometimes people shaking in place when hit by projectile super/ultra
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I'm not super in to street fighter but just curious what you don't like about SF4 series of street fighter games, MadeMan?
Opening a can of worms, but okay.
Let's start with aesthetics and un-important things like that.
The graphics are so-so, and the art style is pretty horrendous. The characters all look very odd, and have strange anatomy. It's a very ugly game. It has none of the flair and style of games like King of Fighters or Guilty Gear, and none of the detail and simplicity of Virtua Fighter or Tekken. It's just... weird.
It's also trying very hard to cram in as many fan favourite characters as possible and still manages to include retarded Deviant-art tier characters like Oni, Evil Ryu and Decapre (the fact that they hyped Decapre for about a year makes it worse. NEW CHARACTER! Get hype! So Excit- oh, it's cammy with a fucking mask).
On the topic, they were also very lazy and copied and pasted the characters and backgrounds from SFxTekken, which is the worst fighting game to be released in years.
I'd also like to point out how much I hate 'Cinematic' Ultras. Holy shit, they get old fast. I would rather have a well animated attack that just takes place in the actual match and doesn't interrupt the flow of the game instead of a short film. NOT TO MENTION, they look like they should be in Fucking Marvel vs Capcom rather that Street Fighter. How did we go from Three Uppercuts being a super into Slow Motion panning shot, dudley punches a guy, he hits the wall a tornado appears and spins him around a lot, twenty seconds later they hit the ground.
Look at this and how much it interrupts the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du3bkXYpOEc
Compared to a NeoMAx from King of Fighters XIII (note the actual NeoMax is just the last hit):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTnx527riwk
The NeoMax doesn't interrup the flow of the game and still has the effect of 'Wow that looks cool!' without taking up a lot of time. Ultras are fun the first time you see them, then they just get dull. They also don't fit nicely into combos as much as simpler attacks. Someone did a comparison a while ago with the PC version where they removed all the 'cinematic' camera angles, it looked much better in my mind.
Onto the more important stuff, gameplay:
Firstly, take a look at this video of Evo grand finals for SFIV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHtW2JJsEnI
This is high level play. This is how you're 'supposed' to play. It's the most boring shit I've ever seen in my life. Walk back and forth just outside of poke range and see who presses a button first. I can appreciate footsies, but this is ridiculous.
The game doesn't know how to be 'beginner friendly', and this has ruined the game in a lot of ways IMO. It wants to be easy to newcomers, so they included the terrible 'Ultra' system, basically revenge meter. It rewards you for losing, which is almost never good. Seemingly to counter-act this, they've included a stupid amount of one-frame links for basic combos. Coming from the VF school of thought, you should be playing the player, not the game. This puts down an unreasonable execution barrier in my mind. I don't mind hard to execute combos, but when you need to learn 1FL for bread and butters, it's just stupid and serves little purpose. If I wanted to practice button timing, I'd play guitar hero, thanks.
In addition to Ultra, you also have;
Super Meter
EX moves
Super moves
Focus Attacks
Red Focus Attacks
Focus Attack-cancelling
All of these affect meter. Again, simplicity is beauty in fighting games in my mind, and this is just saturation. So many options to throw out invincible moves and Focus Attack cancelling allowed you to do invincible moves with complete safety as you could cancel them safely if you had meter. Like a lot of things in this game, this favours the defender.
I want to point this out in particular since it's a big thing. Defense is so strong. They nerfed throws to do pitiful damage, no idea why. In fact everything does relatively poor damage in this game, leading to slow as molasses matches like the ones above. Coupled with long round times, there's less incentive to be aggressive and more to just wait and wait and wait.
Now the bugs. Oh the bugs and exploits...
Safe jumps, unblockables, crossups and fucking OPTION SELECTS. It's disgusting how rife this game is with exploits that have become the way to play.
Here is almost verbatim what a friend told me about playing his characters.
"Basically I just need to get a knock-down, then I whiff two jabs, and jump and do a heavy kick jump-in. If I do it right, I get a safe jump, if i do it wrong, I get a cross up anyway".
You could also do ridiculous shit like 'Press Down, LP and LK on wakeup. You'll either get a throw break, crouching kick or a guard, dpending on the situation'. Good fighting games shouldn't operate like this, you should have to commit to your decisions.
Not to mention all these issues were so ingrained the engine that they couldn't fix them properly, so they had to take a round-about method of including yet another system where you can delay your wakeup by a few frames to stop the safejump/crossup/unblockable nonsense that was plaguing the game.
Next is the balance. Or lack of it, rather. Capcom seems to just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks when it comes to balancing recently. It's almost universally agreed SFIV was most balanced at 'Super'. Then they added the twins and openly admitted 'Yeah they are pretty broken, lols whateva'. Nice work. Then 2012 patch, which still didn't fix everything. Now we have ultra where they MUGEN'd in five more characters to throw out balance some more. The game is ridiculously match-up heavy now.
There's probably more, but I'd have to think on it later.
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MadeManG nailed it. I'm also disappointed. I was really hoping they'd change up the character visuals for SF5 since each major iteration did so, but it looks like they're gonna play it safe.
I'm curious to see what the full roster will be like though. One thing I've always loved about SF prior to 4 was the progression of the series Roster. Most SF1 characters fell out for 2, Alpha characters fit in nicely between 1 and 2, and SF3 was such a breath of fresh air (under-appreciated as it was). Then they just gave up for 4, said 'fuck it' to continuity, and added the lamest new characters.
I know for fighting games story progression is not a big deal, but SF had a pattern that they suddenly broke for SF4 in the most disappointing ways. That Dudley (favourite character btw) Super you posted it the perfect example of everything wrong with SF4.
If you ask me SF3:TS was the pinnacle.
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When they showed actual footage, I got really dissapointed by the fact that they're just building on the artstyle of 4. Something different at least would've been more exciting. I never liked SF4's style to begin with.
With a game like street fighter, the base is pretty much solid so the visuals is the only thing that can really change the feel for a game like this. Unless the gameplay can be improved even more somehow.
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Well, it is Dimps after all.
Capcom doesn't do the game even the DLC fest like SFxT.
Dimps is known for reusing assests all the time.
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Unless the gameplay can be improved even more somehow.
See my post above for all the possible improvements.
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bruh you got that topic title assist I don't remember that being there originally hehehe
Anyway there's a gameplay trailer out and I've got mixed feelings. No focus attack, but now there are destructible environments. OTG and guard break may make the game more offensive or combo heavy. Hopefully no more turtle fighter 4. Combo animations really remind me of SFXT.
It seems like the graphical theme is supposed to be graffiti or aggressive paint or something like that. It's very overt - you can see it in stuff like Ryu's tatsu or whatever it was that Chun did (spinning bird kick, I forget what it was in the trailer.) There is also some sort of weird new mechanic in the trailer that I don't understand yet.
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Gotta love topic titles that judge the game based on incredibly early footage.
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See my post above for all the possible improvements.
I am not an expert on the games but that video looked very boring. i'll never be able to put my finger on what I dont like about sf4, but as a casual player it did feel a bit off. Never knew it was that bad though.. Seems the franchise has lost its focus perhaps
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My knowledge is kinda superficial but IIRC Fei Long has excellent pokes, and Zangief doesn't get in easily outside of Green Hand. Focus attack (the pausing animation, with the watercolor effects surrounding the character) creates mindgames that skew defense. It's a good way to psych out Zangief, since even if Fei Long doesn't have a projectile Zangief has a harder time getting in
The other thing to factor in is that Zangief in AE2012 or whatever doesn't get much play at high levels. Fuudo (fei long) is a japanese player and there probably aren't many gief's, I can only recall one (itabashi). This means that Fuudo is being cautious cause he's less familiar with the matchup/fighting Zangiefs. Fighting against uncommon characters is a pretty valid concern. There's a player making waves recently named pepeday who plays Fuerte, and same thing -- uncommon character taking wins. To be sure, both Snake Eyez and pepeday are good
Apparently Fuudo is pretty defensive as a player anyway but w/e I don't keep up as much
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Gotta love topic titles that judge the game based on incredibly early footage.
I call it like I see it. I said the footage looked like shit, and I stand by that. I believe it didn't look very good.
Not saying the game will definitely be bad, but I don't like what I've seen so far.My knowledge is kinda superficial but IIRC Fei Long has excellent pokes, and Zangief doesn't get in easily outside of Green Hand. Focus attack (the pausing animation, with the watercolor effects surrounding the character) creates mindgames that skew defense. It's a good way to psych out Zangief, since even if Fei Long doesn't have a projectile Zangief has a harder time getting in
The other thing to factor in is that Zangief in AE2012 or whatever doesn't get much play at high levels. Fuudo (fei long) is a japanese player and there probably aren't many gief's, I can only recall one (itabashi). This means that Fuudo is being cautious cause he's less familiar with the matchup/fighting Zangiefs. Fighting against uncommon characters is a pretty valid concern. There's a player making waves recently named pepeday who plays Fuerte, and same thing -- uncommon character taking wins. To be sure, both Snake Eyez and pepeday are good
Apparently Fuudo is pretty defensive as a player anyway but w/e I don't keep up as much
You are right, I hand picked a particularly slow game, but that's because it was the game that I remember the most from recent times. There are more exciting matches out there, but overall I find the game dull to watch as it's just very slow paced and rewarding molasses playstyle.
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nah it's still a slow game in general. I remember watching that at EVO this year. Incidentally the winner was another defensive character (Rose) =P. I was just providing some info about the game and a little of what I know about high-level SF in case it CrazyT might be interested.
At least with parry in SFIII IIRC the only thing that gets killed are fireballs. it still feels and plays like a faster game.
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At least with parry in SFIII IIRC the only thing that gets killed are fireballs. it still feels and plays like a faster game.
I believe Anti-Airing was hurt considerably as well by the parry system.
I'm not knowledgeable on 3S so I can't comment with much authority on it.
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So this game also runs on Unreal Engine 4 like Tekken 7 does?
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Newsflash: Street Fighter has always been shit. At least in comparison with the competition.
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Newsflash: Street Fighter has always been shit. At least in comparison with the competition.
? You're going to make out that the likes of SF II , SF III and SF Zero 3 are shit ?. Imo nobody makes a better 2D fighter than Capcom and SF IV was brilliant . Looking forward to the new one.
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? You're going to make out that the likes of SF II , SF III and SF Zero 3 are shit ?. Imo nobody makes a better 2D fighter than Capcom and SF IV was brilliant . Looking forward to the new one.
I'll agree on everything except SFIV being brilliant.
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? You're going to make out that the likes of SF II , SF III and SF Zero 3 are shit ?. Imo nobody makes a better 2D fighter than Capcom and SF IV was brilliant . Looking forward to the new one.
Yes. That is my opinion.
Go ahead and call me a wanker, but I just can't have fun at all with those games. And seeing other people play them they look sooo fucking boring. There are better fighting games. Even from Capcom.
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but I just can't have fun at all with those games.
No I'll not call you names, and its fine not to like the games but to call them crap is just a bit much . I don't like the GTA 3D games and can never really get into any of the 3D ones - (GTA III,IV,V) but I'll not call them sh8t - just games that are not for me .
To me X-Men COTA is best 2D Fighter I've played closely followed by Samurai Showdown III . But one can't overlook the impact SF II had , nor how well made SF III and Zero 3 were imo
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Being well made and having impact does not make a game good just by itself. As we both know, Street Fighter is the common denominator in fighting games. Entry level game into a deep and wonderful genre. That's why pro play looks boring, the game is pretty shallow in order to make anyone feel adequate and competitive at it.
I don't know about Zero and Alpha, but the main games have always felt this way to me. And that's why I think they are crap. I don't have anything against people who enjoy them, nor do I deny their influence and popularity. I just don't think they are even close to the pedestal people like to put them on.
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sh8t
Shate?
Sheight?
Shayte?
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Sheit?
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Being well made and having impact does not make a game good just by itself. As we both know, Street Fighter is the common denominator in fighting games. Entry level game into a deep and wonderful genre. That's why pro play looks boring, the game is pretty shallow in order to make anyone feel adequate and competitive at it.
I don't know about Zero and Alpha, but the main games have always felt this way to me. And that's why I think they are crap. I don't have anything against people who enjoy them, nor do I deny their influence and popularity. I just don't think they are even close to the pedestal people like to put them on.
I can agree with this. With Street Fighter 3: Third Strike being the exception to the rule. Nothing shallow about that game. I can't see any 2D fighter topping it.
SF2 (World Warrior/Champion Edition) should also not be called crap as in their time they were pretty far ahead, with the competition producing copycats and struggling to keep up.
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SF2 (World Warrior/Champion Edition) should also not be called crap as in their time they were pretty far ahead, with the competition producing copycats and struggling to keep up.
Yes, I suppose this is true. Kudos, I slightly change my opinion.
Is Third Strike worth of notice for some particular reason?
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I think it's the best 2d fighter. I realize it's completely subjective, but even judged technically, it holds up.
The sprite animations are very fluid and well designed. The roster was diverse. Tons of characters without descending into "Evil Ryu" silliness.
The combat was balanced. Ex-moves were introduced which added another layer to your moves that felt natural to play. It had the parry system which I thought was genius as it can nullify chip damage and made turtle strategies disadvantageous.
As an SF fan, it was also notable because it progressed the story in a natural way. Returning characters were older. Most of the roster were new characters, many of them with connections to the old characters. The music and visuals and play, it all comes across as a very mature street fighter game. It's like it expected that the original players of the SF series have themselves grown up and this is the fighter they would want.
What I'm saying here applies to all SF3 versions (New Generation, 2nd Impact, and 3rd Strike). 3rd Strike was their final version of the game with the final balancing and additional characters, movesets, etc.
SF4 just undid all that pretty much. Such a disappointment. They pretty much went the SF:EX route. Same original roster and movesets. Same 3D visuals as the gimmick. Same ridiculously designed new characters (Remember D.Dark?).
Honestly, if you don't like Street Fighter, but are willing to give it's best game a shot, check out Street Fighter 3.
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I will, thanks Randroid
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I can admire SF3 for what it is, but I don't personally like it all that much. I agree it had some brilliant ideas, but the parry system wasn't without fault. It really killed fireball game and changed the way things work with jump ins and anti-airs as well. Still a great game (and might I say, aesthetically beautiful too) but I personally don't enjoy playing it. Might just be that I'd be coming into it too late to learn it properly.
I don't get the love for the soundtrack either. Some of it's good, but a lot of I find kinda meh.
Oh and the balance in that game is horse-shit.
Crackdude: Can I ask which 2D fighters you do like? SNK Fan? I can kind of agree on that one. Even this gen KoFXIII >>>>>>>>SFIV.
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Being well made and having impact does not make a game good just by itself. As we both know
I would tend to disagree . If looks at the likes of Daytona USA CCE onthe Saturn - It's not a patch on the classic Daytona USA game most of the magic is lost , but its a well made game just not for everybody or even fans of the original. I feel very much the same for Daytona USA 2 on the Arcades too .
Now Street Fighter II totally transformed Vs Fighter for ever and had a huge impact on the gaming scene. SF III is an amazing sequel with some of the best combo and counter systems ever seen in a fighter and a game that was so deep and brutal to the player that it sadly put many off, very much like VO II - It was a game for the true diehard gamer and like VO II a game so deep it will take years to master and even after years of playing the game, you'll discover new tricks and ways to play the game .
Its most prob why to this day its still used in some fighting game tournaments. Sure SF IV was a step backwards and basically SF II done in 3D, but Capcom had too , so the more casual game player could get back into the series . That said for me VF 5 was a step back to that of VF 4 Evo, but I'll hardly call VF 5 a sh8t game .
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Sure SF IV was a step backwards and basically SF II done in 3D, but Capcom had too , so the more casual game player could get back into the series .
Except it's not even close to SF2. All they did was include most of the roster.
sh8t game .
Shayte?
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All they did was include most of the roster
And all the old moves, controls and combo's . I think there's a very good reason why SF IV got rave reviews
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Crackdude: Can I ask which 2D fighters you do like? SNK Fan? I can kind of agree on that one. Even this gen KoFXIII >>>>>>>>SFIV.
I was really into KOF when I was a kid. I still think they are THE best. Of course, I'm pretty shit at them and can't fully appreciate their depth, but SNK fighters are by far my favorites.
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And all the old moves, controls and combo's . I think there's a very good reason why SF IV got rave reviews
On the face of it, it looks as if it's similar, but the games are so hugely different. The addition of EX moves, Ultras, Focus Attacks, things like input shortcuts and changes to move properties changed the game so much.
It plays massively different to SF2, it's night and day unless you play at a very casual level where throwing a fireball is considered 'impressive' (no offense by that, some people don't play fighters and would see the games as very similar).
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SFIV was superficial enough of a return to "form" that it looked amazing from a distance. All SF's are different beasts, but basically the first SFIII entry came out I think sometime around SF Alpha 3 and it was a game different enough from Alpha/SF2 that it alienated people on a casual level. Mostly new characters (this is important because Alpha series had new characters but still a bunch of familiar styles/char), choose a super/length of meter, EX move in 2nd Impact, parry, etc. Coincidentally around this time fighting games started to lose popularity according to Yoshinori Ono so people didn't focus on them as much in the mainstream.
Plus SFIV had more casual friendly things, like character reactions to Ultras on their faces, some cartoonish Ultras (Akuma Ultra 2?), Ultra system on top of Super meter where you will by default have access to an Ultra art if you are hit enough (base damage for half-filled ultra is 100%, full ultra is 150%). Focus attack, I don't know what to think tbh. Casual players probably either abuse or don't use it even if it only absorb on hit. SFIV does have some kinda hardcore stuff like one frame links though
To say nothing of whether all this was good or bad. It was just a strategic overture to corralling a lost audience
butIdon'treallylikeSFIVallthatmuch
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On the face of it, it looks as if it's similar, but the games are so hugely different. The addition of EX moves, Ultras, Focus Attacks, things like input shortcuts and changes to move properties changed the game so much
If you could play SF II or any of its spin off's, you could play SF IV and do ok . SF IV went back to SF II really and even brought back a lot of the classic characters and I think it was reflected in the sales - A game that did much better than SF III be that in the Arcades or the home. To me because it was far easier to get it too, where as SF III (even for SF veterans) was a real die hard game and had a massive steep learning curve.
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Charlie/Nash Gameplay trailer:
http://youtu.be/lhjOlfsuVy4
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Still looks like shit!
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Genocide CUTTAH, but with a ZOMBIE CHARLIE.
Interesting character, I don't like the frankenstien thing, but at least it's original-ish. I hate that CINEMATIC supers are back, but whatever, I didn't plan to get into this game anyway.
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Maybe I'm just imagining it but the first reveal trailer had more muted colours.
Seems like they changed the colour schemes to make it look even more like SF4.
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They did lighten up the colours i believe. Someone had a comparison of Chunners between the trailers, she looks better in the new one IMO.
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Don't know what you guys are talking about it looks pretty darn good to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Yeah looks fine, tho not much nicer than the last one and I wasn't even impressed with 4 (graphically).
yes, its slow but this is aimed at a mainstream crowd. I noticed this trend now: Make fighting games slower. I think one of the main complaints with Smash players is that Melee is faster (and amoung other things) than the newest entries.
Eh?
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Really? Street Fighter games have had a pretty good balance with them aiming at both more casual players and pro tournament players lately, with them focusing a lot on balancing the game with Street Fighter IV expansions/patches.
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From a pro:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2015/jan/02/daigo-street-fighter-5s-pace-currently-too-slow-feels-fighting-games-should-limit-number-possible-blocks-techs-and-reduce-time-limit/
But again, this is good. Capcom will fix most of the issues (I hope) before launch and find a better balance.
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Really? Street Fighter games have had a pretty good balance with them aiming at both more casual players and pro tournament players lately, with them focusing a lot on balancing the game with Street Fighter IV expansions/patches.
Too bad they actually made the balance significantly worse after Super SFIV.